|
Re: SMA Notice
Dave...
Ann,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Good observation: "...fill it out online, then snail mail it to FS. What????" I guess they need a valid signature? Seems a strange way to do it in this day and age of electronic signatures. And isn't there a fax number, at the very least? I'd just do it over the phone and get instant gratification. And save the postage. Dave Carlson Sent from my Dell Latitude E6520 using Windows 7, San Francisco Bay Area
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Byrne" <annakb@sbcglobal.net> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 10:23 Subject: Re: SMA Notice I looked at the online form to fill out to update my SMA. You can fill it out online, then snail mail it to FS. What???? In light of the recent discussion about JAWS SMAs, I just received notice _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
|
|
|
|
Re: SMA Notice
Joni Colver <earlybird@...>
Adrian, my ticket to climb back on board the FS train was over $500. Ouch!
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
That was to get 13 and an SMA for 14 and 15. I learned my lesson and plan to stay more current with SMAs from now on. Joni
----- Original Message -----
Subject: SMA Notice In light of the recent discussion about JAWS SMAs, I just received notice by email that my SMA renewal is on its way by snail mail. I assume many of us whose SMAs run out with JAWS 13 will be receiving the email and/or the snail mail. I just can't wait to spend more money!
|
|
|
|
Re: What kind of tech support is that?
Adrian Spratt
Gary,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I'm glad you clarified. It crossed my mind to be clearer this morning, but it was early and my mind was a bit foggy. Do you agree with this? FS should have suggested that Kimber first try the /default switch method. If nothing changed, it would show that neither her user settings nor third party scripts were at fault. However, if the result had been an improvement in performance, the settings and scripts needed to be copied to another folder and deleted from the user settings folder. Then, as you say, the individual files could be copied back one by one to find the culprit. I think I'm just restating what you said, but I want to be sure. I do think FS's proposed initial step was too drastic, causing a lot of work for many users who would receive it and perhaps discouraging others completely.
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Gary King Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 1:04 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: What kind of tech support is that? Adrian, The two solutions that you are comparing don't have the same purpose. Running JFW with the /default switch just lets you test the program temporarily with only the default settings and scripts. This helps you determine if any settings or third-party scripts in your user settings folder are at fault. The other posted solution tells you what to do if the test you just ran proves that user settings or third-party scripts are the cause of your problem. It tells you how to get rid of them and start over with the default settings and scripts. Backing up any third-party scripts preserves them for placing back in the user settings folder later, preferably one at a time if you suspect that one of them may be at fault. Gary King w4wkz@bellsouth.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Spratt" <Adrian@AdrianSpratt.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 6:10 AM Subject: RE: What kind of tech support is that? Hi. I'm glad you posted FS's instructions, but I think the suggestion _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
|
|
|
|
Re: SMA Notice
Ann Byrne
I looked at the online form to fill out to update my SMA. You can fill it out online, then snail mail it to FS. What????
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
In light of the recent discussion about JAWS SMAs, I just received notice by
|
|
|
|
Re: SMA Notice
Dave...
Adrian,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Already spent my (well,, my employer's) money and purchased the SMA through a dealer who sells access software for Cakewalk Sonar. Ka ching, Ka ching! Dave Carlson Sent from my Dell Latitude E6520 using Windows 7, San Francisco Bay Area
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Spratt" <Adrian@AdrianSpratt.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 10:00 Subject: SMA Notice In light of the recent discussion about JAWS SMAs, I just received notice by email that my SMA renewal is on its way by snail mail. I assume many of us whose SMAs run out with JAWS 13 will be receiving the email and/or the snail mail. I just can't wait to spend more money! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/20111103/cbd2bf0c/attachment.html>; _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
|
|
|
|
Re: Jaws 11 / Focus 40 BT
Kimber Gardner
Hi Richard,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I don't know the answer to your question, but Freedom Scientific might. You may want to give them a call. 1-727-803-8600. Kim
On 11/2/11, Richard Holloway <rholloway@gopbc.org> wrote:
My daughter has been using her FS Focus 40 BT in uncontracted braille mode --
Kimberly
|
|
|
|
Re: What kind of tech support is that?
Kimber Gardner
Just to follow-up, removing the user settings did not solve the problem.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
K
On 11/3/11, Gary King <w4wkz@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Adrian, --
Kimberly
|
|
|
|
Re: What kind of tech support is that?
Gary King
Adrian,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
The two solutions that you are comparing don't have the same purpose. Running JFW with the /default switch just lets you test the program temporarily with only the default settings and scripts. This helps you determine if any settings or third-party scripts in your user settings folder are at fault. The other posted solution tells you what to do if the test you just ran proves that user settings or third-party scripts are the cause of your problem. It tells you how to get rid of them and start over with the default settings and scripts. Backing up any third-party scripts preserves them for placing back in the user settings folder later, preferably one at a time if you suspect that one of them may be at fault. Gary King w4wkz@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Spratt" <Adrian@AdrianSpratt.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 6:10 AM Subject: RE: What kind of tech support is that? Hi. I'm glad you posted FS's instructions, but I think the suggestion
|
|
|
|
SMA Notice
Adrian Spratt
In light of the recent discussion about JAWS SMAs, I just received notice by
email that my SMA renewal is on its way by snail mail. I assume many of us whose SMAs run out with JAWS 13 will be receiving the email and/or the snail mail. I just can't wait to spend more money! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/20111103/cbd2bf0c/attachment.html>;
|
|
|
|
Re: Beyond Text medical transcription software
Ann Marie Medlar <amedlar1@...>
Hi Brian,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Would you have a link that I could test your platform with Jaws? Must you use IE or is Firefox an option?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian" <bvarner05@comcast.net> To: <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 1:53 PM Subject: Beyond Text medical transcription software Hi Joni,
|
|
|
|
Re: smaRe: jaws 13:
Ann Marie Medlar <amedlar1@...>
Thanks, I will request that FS contact via email rather than USPO.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Spratt" <Adrian@AdrianSpratt.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 8:31 AM Subject: RE: smaRe: jaws 13: Yes, it costs extra, in the neighborhood of $150-$200, as I recall. The
|
|
|
|
Re: not good
Mike Mote <mikemote@...>
If i could I will add one more thing. If you tell recruiters or the prospective employer you are blind before you get the interview, you won't get the interview. It's discrimination, but there's no way to prove it. Just sayin!
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cowle, Jodi" <JCowle@cityofmadison.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 9:50 AM Subject: RE: not good This is a real issue, because there are no guarantees that JAWS or any screen reader will work with a company/agency's software; and in these poor economic times employers want guarantees before they'll hire. I will not go into my situation as I know I'm walking the line here, but lists like this are so important as we can share and learn and hopefully get some ideas about where we can fit in this world where everywhere we go we must face some computer application and figure out how to make it work for us.
|
|
|
|
Re: not good
soner
İf people share their Jaws related issues including those ones in their workplaces, could İ learn what is wrong in it? if no conversation should not occur or be labled as chatting, what was your aim at creating this list?
Regards
|
|
|
|
Re: not good
Cowle, Jodi <JCowle@...>
This is a real issue, because there are no guarantees that JAWS or any screen reader will work with a company/agency's software; and in these poor economic times employers want guarantees before they'll hire. I will not go into my situation as I know I'm walking the line here, but lists like this are so important as we can share and learn and hopefully get some ideas about where we can fit in this world where everywhere we go we must face some computer application and figure out how to make it work for us.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Tom Lange Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 9:26 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: not good Lol, eh? Doesn't sound at all funny to me. Times are tough these days even for those of us with good jobs, so I can empathize with people who are living from paycheck to paycheck or who are out of work and within a hair's breadth of living on the streets. That's no laughing matter for sighted folks and it sure isn't funny for blind guys. I'll grant you that this isn't a chat room but you've got no call to dismiss this guy's plight in such a flippant manner. Shame on you! Tom Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "George B" <gbmagoo@comcast.net> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:05 AM Subject: RE: not good Here we go again with the jaws chat room...lol _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
|
|
|
|
Re: copying text from a web page
Joni Colver <earlybird@...>
Thanks Mike. I knew I had heard of paste special, but could not figure out
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
how to do it while troubleshooting my issue. I will save this clear description for future reference. Joni
----- Original Message -----
Hi Joni, Below is a different way to achieve the same goal. Try the following to remove html formatting from source material copied from web based resources. 1. Highlight the text you want to copy. 2. Copy it to the windows clipboard with CTRL+C. 3. Return to your open document. 4. When you get to the place you want to insert your copied material press alt+E. 5. Up-arrow until you hear Jaws say "paste special...." 6. Press enter and up-arrow until you hear Jaws say "paste as unformatted text" and press enter. This will remove all of the HTML formatting from your copied material and insert it into your document. Be advised that your cursor will be at the bottom of the inserted material and you will need to use the appropriate reading commands to get to the beginning of your text. I use the above steps with XP, Word 2002, & all versions of Jaws. I haven't tried it on my Windows7 system, yet!
|
|
|
|
Re: copying text from a web page
Mike & Barbara in Arcadia <mb69mach1@...>
Hi Joni,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Below is a different way to achieve the same goal. Try the following to remove html formatting from source material copied from web based resources. 1. Highlight the text you want to copy. 2. Copy it to the windows clipboard with CTRL+C. 3. Return to your open document. 4. When you get to the place you want to insert your copied material press alt+E. 5. Up-arrow until you hear Jaws say "paste special...." 6. Press enter and up-arrow until you hear Jaws say "paste as unformatted text" and press enter. This will remove all of the HTML formatting from your copied material and insert it into your document. Be advised that your cursor will be at the bottom of the inserted material and you will need to use the appropriate reading commands to get to the beginning of your text. I use the above steps with XP, Word 2002, & all versions of Jaws. I haven't tried it on my Windows7 system, yet! Hope this helps. Take care. Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Scrimenti To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 2:32 PM Subject: Re: copying text from a web page By the way, this also works in Jaws 11. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joni Colver" <earlybird@tampabay.rr.com> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 10:27 AM Subject: Re: copying text from a web page >I should add that I think this insert v dialog option may have changed in > JAWS 13. I read a little about new features, but can't remember specifics > now and have not yet used JAWS 13. My experience I described is with JAWS > 12. I will be venturing into JAWS 13 soon. > > Joni > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joni Colver" <earlybird@tampabay.rr.com> > To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 10:18 AM > Subject: Re: copying text from a web page > > > I was having trouble copying from web pages also with JAWS 12. Someone on > another list told me to try changing something in the adjust JAWS options > dialog while in Internet Explorer. > > > > I hit insert v and then arrowed down a few times to virtual cursor > options. > > > > The first item said select and copy full content using on screen > highlight. > I pressed the spacebar to toggle it to say select and copy from virtual > cursor. I then hit alt c to close the dialog. So far the setting has > stuck > for me and it copies and pastes plain text into Word, without all of the > links and headings. It was a nice simple solution once I knew about it. > > > > Joni > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian" <bvarner05@comcast.net> > To: <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 9:08 AM > Subject: copying text from a web page > > > When I want to copy text off a web page, I select the text, use ctrl-c, > then > paste it into notepad. this gets rid of all html (I think) and you get > plain text you can copy into Word or elsewhere. I used to do this for > medical transcription, especially drug names, then found that the medical > transcription software (ChartNet) pasted the html coding asociated with > the > drug name instead of the plain text of the drug name. ChartNet is based > on > Word so that might be why the html stuff was showing up instead of plain > text. > > > _______________________________________________ > Jfw mailing list > Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com > http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Jfw mailing list > Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com > http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/20111103/482526b1/attachment.html>;
|
|
|
|
Re: What kind of tech support is that?
Adrian Spratt
Hi. I'm glad you posted FS's instructions, but I think the suggestion
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Matthew posted the other day on this topic is safer and less time-consuming. Here's what he wrote: I believe you should be able to simulate resetting your Jaws settings if you unload Jaws and then use the run dialog with Windows key R, then type jaws13 /default This way, it will reload Jaws, but it will act like it did when first installed. Then you can see if the problem clears up.
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Kimber Gardner Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 6:50 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: What kind of tech support is that? Robert, Here are the instructions FS sent me for deleting all settings. To set JAWS to the defaults: If you are using any third party scripts, back them up first. 1. Press the windows logo key to open the Start Menu. 2. Press the letter P for Programs or go to the all programs sub-menu. 3. Press the letter J till you come to the JAWS version you are looking for and press enter. 4. Press Enter on Explore JAWS. 5. Down arrow to explore my settings and press Enter. 6. Press control+A to select all settings then hold down the shift key and press the delete key. If prompted, press enter on yes. 7. Restart JAWS. On 11/3/11, Robert Logue <bobcat11@telusplanet.net> wrote: How does one reset user dialog items to default? I could not find that in settings center. I wonder what happens if one deletes everything in the user folder including all the sub folders. Would Jaws recreate them or would this really mess it up? For example: PersistenceLevelInfo.ini SettingsCenter.ini Classic.SMF PlaceMarkers File Folder PersonalizedSettings File Folder Sounds File Folder transient-session File Folder transient-focus File Folder ----- Original Message ----- From: "Farfar on Laptop" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 6:49 AM Subject: Re: What kind of tech support is that? Kimber, Agree that the suggestion is nebulous, but it just underscores that they don't have a clue, or that they can't duplicate what you're experiencing. The latter is usually what happens to me -- their exact setup matching mine works just fine for them. As to their suggestion of "resetting the JAWS user settings" all I can think of is either clear out all your user-defined scripts from the ENU folder (which you only do after backing them all up somewhere), or using the settings center and setting the user dialog items to their default values. Dave Carlson Sent from my Dell Latitude E6520 using Windows 7, San Francisco Bay Area ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimber Gardner" <kimbersinbox1963@gmail.com> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 04:01 Subject: What kind of tech support is that? Hi All, A week or so ago I posted to the list an issue I was having with Jaws 13 where in my braille display freezes at random times in random applications. I emailed FS tech support as well and here is the answer I received. "Please try resetting your JAWS user settings. This often clears up issues of this type." Now maybe it's me, but what the heck kind of tech support is that? I mean this is a brand new release and I'm reporting an issue that has never happened in earlier releases and *that* is the answer I get? Really FS needs to do better by its long-time customers. Kimber
|
|
|
|
Re: What kind of tech support is that?
Kimber Gardner
Robert,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Here are the instructions FS sent me for deleting all settings. To set JAWS to the defaults: If you are using any third party scripts, back them up first. 1. Press the windows logo key to open the Start Menu. 2. Press the letter P for Programs or go to the all programs sub-menu. 3. Press the letter J till you come to the JAWS version you are looking for and press enter. 4. Press Enter on Explore JAWS. 5. Down arrow to explore my settings and press Enter. 6. Press control+A to select all settings then hold down the shift key and press the delete key. If prompted, press enter on yes. 7. Restart JAWS.
On 11/3/11, Robert Logue <bobcat11@telusplanet.net> wrote:
How does one reset user dialog items to default? I could not find that in --
Kimberly
|
|
|
|
Re: Symbol announcement by JAWS
Adrian Spratt
Hamid, I'm copying below most of a ten-day-old thread that I believe
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
addresses your question. On Behalf Of Soronel Haetir Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 11:47 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Checkmark / Square Root symbol You can add symbols by editing the *.sbl files in your jaws profile directory (either your personal user profile or the all users pdirectory) For example, I have added the following to my c:\Users\All Users\Freedom Scientific\Jaws\13.0\Settings\enu\eloq.sbl: Symbol138=U+3A3=Cap Sigma symbol139=u+03c3 11111111 small sigma Symbol140=U+00FB 11111111 Checkmark to the American English section. And now jaws speaks those particular characters. Note that after editing the .spl file you have to restart jaws, it does not pick up the changes automatically. Also, in order to edit the shared profile, you either need to change the security permissions on the files or run your editor as administrator. I learned of this after asking FS basically the same question. On 9/27/11, Zaheer Sheikh <cybergeek2020@gmail.com> wrote: Hey Mike, I use alt+251 to insert the Square Root symbol. As you already mentioned, jaws will read it as letter "v". You can add the Square Root symbol in the default dictionary manager, and then jaws will read it correctly. This is how I did it: 1. Open notepad. 2. Press ALT+251, this will insert the Square Root symbol. 3. Note that Jaws will read the Square Root symbol as letter "V". 4. Select and copy the symbol without any spaces. 5. Open the Jaws default dictionary manager from the Jaws utilities submenu. 6. Select the Add button to add new entry in the Dictionary. 6. Paste the symbol in the "Actual word" edit box. 7. Type "Square Root" in the "Replacement word" edit box. 8. Tab to OK. Hope this helps, Zaheer Sheikh On 9/27/11, Adrian Spratt <Adrian@adrianspratt.com> wrote: Mike, I don't have a definite answer, but here are three possibilities to explore: 1. Add 0 before the 251 code. Thus 0251 2. In the past, some listers came to the conclusion that the process you describe produces not ASCII, but ANSI code. I've just now been looking around the Net for an ANSI codes list, but I couldn't find an accessible one quickly. It might be worth a try. 3. I may be reading this wrong, but an ASCII table I just looked at indicates that the ASCII code for square root isn't 251, but 252. Let us know if you find an answer.
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Barbara Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 11:14 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Subject: Re: Checkmark / Square Root symbol Hi Dave; The ascii code for the checkmark / square root symbol is supposed to be, Alt + 251, but when this ascii symbol is typed inserted, Jaws reads the + letter, V. I am assuming this is because, possibly anyways, that the checkmark / square root symbol resembles the letter, V. What do you think? Also, I as of yet, have found no way to add extra symbols to the symbols list, i.e., Insert + 4 on the number row. Thank you very much for your reply. Take care. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Farfar on Laptop To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 7:52 AM Subject: Re: Checkmark / Square Root symbol Mike, You know about the Insert+4 symbols list, I'm sure. However it does not have these in the list. I'd sure like to find out how to add symbols to this list. Other than that, you'll need to find out the ASCII character code or graphical code equivalent to these and use the numpad to enter them. Hold down Alt and type the numbers from the numpad to insert special characters. Dave Carlson From my Dell Latitude 630. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike & Barbara" <mb69mach1@charter.net> To: "JFW List" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 7:30 Subject: Checkmark / Square Root symbol How do I type a checkmark / square root symbol using Jaws? -----Original Message----- From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Hamid Hamraz Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 5:10 AM To: JFW Subject: Symbol announcement by JAWS Hi all, I have found out that some special symbols within a text are completely ignored by jaws. I am meaning those that are not among the usual punctuations. For instance, some mathematical symbols like times, which looks like a cross, meaning multiplication, is correctly announced by Jaws. However, another symbol which represents proportionality [∝] is completely ignored by jaws. I could define a dictionary entry for such symbols. But I am just wondering if there is a more elegant way to define how to announce a symbol for jaws. Any idea is welcome! Cheers, Hamid
|
|
|
|
Symbol announcement by JAWS
Hamid Hamraz
Hi all,
I have found out that some special symbols within a text are completely ignored by jaws. I am meaning those that are not among the usual punctuations. For instance, some mathematical symbols like times, which looks like a cross, meaning multiplication, is correctly announced by Jaws. However, another symbol which represents proportionality [∝] is completely ignored by jaws. I could define a dictionary entry for such symbols. But I am just wondering if there is a more elegant way to define how to announce a symbol for jaws. Any idea is welcome! Cheers, Hamid -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/20111103/d9a15152/attachment.html>;
|
|
|
