Date   

Re: Chrome and Twitter

Andre Jarreau <andre.jarreau@...>
 

Hi David,

This is what I found using Control-L in Chrome. On my machine it works with
a minor twist. After hitting Control-L and typing or pasting a URL into the
edit field you must hit the down arrow key one time for JAWS to speak what
you have entered. Then hitting the enter key at this point takes you where
you want to go.

I'm not sure how it works on other machines but this is how it works on
mine. And works well.

Also thanks for the link for web accessible twitter and the Twitter client
Chicken Nugget you sent. I am checking out both to see which way is best.
Very encouraged and can't wait to see the podcast you come up with for
Chrome.

Andre

Andre Jarreau
Business, music and engineering

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of David Moore
via Jfw
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2015 12:27 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: David Moore
Subject: Re: Chrome and Twitter

Hi there,
Are you trying to get to Twitter's web site? If you are, just press ctrl + L
and type www.twitter.com It should go to the Twitter web site just like any
other site. I just tried it and it did. However, the Twitter main web site
is very difficult to use.
You should try this web site:
www.easychirp.com
That is an accessible web site that links into your twitter account, but it
is much easier to navigate and to use than the main Twitter site. Even
better, is to use a client like Chicken Nugget to work with your Twitter
account, because you can send and receive tweets, reply to tweets, and all
you want to do right in a desk top program instead of being on the web at
all. Take care.


-----Original Message-----
From: Andre Jarreau via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2015 4:13 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Andre Jarreau
Subject: Chrome and Twitter

I may be doing something wrong. At the Google home page in Chrome I want to
go to Twitter.com and can't seem to get there. Tried keystrokes common in
IE but didn't work in Chrome.



Does anyone know the keystroke commands to get to Twitter? Thanks


calling out the admin

Kimsan <kimsansong@...>
 

I'm not sure if my email is going through, but if the admin reads this,
please email me at kimsansong@gmail.com <mailto:kimsansong@gmail.com> .

Yes, the address is on the homepage; however, I've emailed that address I
believe 3 times with no answer.

Thank you.





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Re: Google Chrome

David Moore
 

Hi all,
Ctrl + shift + a is not a JAWS command, it is a command built into Chrome. Pressing that command opens up a page with a lot of settings you can change. That is where you can tell Chrome whether you do or do not want Chrome to be your default browser. Once you tell it one way or another, Chrome will not keep asking you that question. Take care and have a great one.

-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt via Jfw
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2015 9:43 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Adrian Spratt
Subject: RE: Google Chrome

It's a new one on me. I just noticed JAWS verbalizing this command as Chrome was loading and was telling me it isn't my default.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Clark via Jfw
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2015 9:33 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Dennis Clark
Subject: Re: Google Chrome

Hi Adrian,
What does the control shift a operation do generally in Jaws. I'm sure I
should know but I don't. Thanks for the Google Chrome tip.
Dennis

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Spratt via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Cc: "Adrian Spratt" <Adrian@AdrianSpratt.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 8:21 PM
Subject: RE: Google Chrome


Try pressing control-shift-a, then tab to something like "don't ask
again." that's how I got past it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne
via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 11:05 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Ann Byrne
Subject: Google Chrome

The first thing that happened when I opened Google Chrome was the
question did I want it as my default browser, which I don't. JAWS 17
read that there were buttons for yes, no, and don't ask me again ...
but I couldn't access them with tab, arrow keys, or the JAWS cursor.


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Re: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

David Moore
 

Hi Bill,
Book marks are stored in Chrome just like they are in Firefox. Unfortunately, just like Firefox, you cannot go to your favorites folder on your computer and get them there. Only IE favorites are stored in that favorites folder on your computer. Do you know how to download the bookmarks you save in Firefox? I like to save all of my favorites on my external disk drive. That is easy for IE favorites, however, book marks are not stored in the favorites folder under your name on the C drive. I had to bring up each book mark in Firefox, copy the URL, and paste it in IE and save it as a favorite in IE so it would go into the favorites folder on the computer. Take care.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill White via Jfw
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2015 10:26 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Bill White
Subject: Re: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

Hi, Adrian. When you say that Bookmarks in Chrome is like Favorites in
Internet Explorer, do you know if Bookmarks in Chrome are stored as
shortcuts the way IE stores them, or does Chrome store Bookmarks in a data
file the way Firefox does?

Thank you.
Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Spratt via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Cc: "Adrian Spratt" <Adrian@AdrianSpratt.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2015 4:18 AM
Subject: RE: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites


I can elaborate on this. Note that the term "bookmarks" in Chrome means the same thing as "favorites" in IE.

First, the fastest way I've found to get to book marks is to press alt, down arrow once, then press b. From there, as David says, right arrow into the main bookmarks menu, which includes bookmarks created in Chrome, and arrow up or down through the options.

However, first-letter navigation through this main bookmarks menu is risky. When entering this menu, do not press "I." It seems to take me to the bookmarks bar, which I find inefficient and confusing. This impairs the value of using bookmarks in this list, at least for me, because I use first-letter navigation in my IE favorites list all the time.

However, as I mentioned in an earlier post, Chrome makes it very easy to import IE favorites. In the main bookmarks menu, arrow to "Import book marks and settings..." Press enter and start tabbing.

Now that I've imported my IE settings, I now arrow down through the main bookmarks menu to "Imported from IE " to access the favorites/bookmarks I've created over the years. At that point, right arrow twice to enter the IE favorites/bookmarks list. First-letter navigation works fine here.

The bookmarks shortcut, control-shift-b, doesn't immediately work, and I'm confused by what it actually does do. This so-called bar, once I finally get there, requires tabbing, and first-letter navigation doesn't work. I've unchecked "Show bookmarks bar" by pressing enter on this main bookmarks menu item.

Short version: for now, I'll avoid creating bookmarks in Chrome, even though control-d makes it easy to do, and rely on my imported IE favorites.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of David Moore via Jfw
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2015 1:54 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: David Moore
Subject: Re: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

Hi all,
David Moore here. I can tell you now how to work with book marks in Chrome.
To put a web page in your book marks, press ctrl + D. It is saved right
then. Now, to Look and open your book marks, just press alt and down arrow
through the chrome menu until you hear book marks. Next, press right arrow
to open up your book marks, and just press enter on the one you want to open
up. I will tell you about other features as I figure them out and some time
this week, I hope to do an audio tutorial for Chrome. Take care.


-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2015 12:18 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Adrian Spratt
Subject: RE: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

Thank you, Ann. Needless to say, it works. However, with IE as my default,
naturally when I click a favorite, IE takes over. I won't make Chrome my
default until various problems are solved. It would be nice to find Chrome
"fully" accessible because it runs much better than the other browsers, but
I'm not yet convinced. I hope David Moore can address bookmarks and other
issues.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne via
Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 11:48 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Ann Byrne
Subject: Re: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

In windows 7, Favorites can be accessed by pressing Windows key, then
tab, then enter, then 'f' or down arrowing to the favorites
list. This should be independent of your browser. So if you just
want one favorite, it might be faster to go that way.
At 10:35 AM 11/7/2015, you wrote:

Which explains why Eric Damery still advises JAWS users to avoid
Chrome. As far as he is concerned, Chrome is still not ready yet
for prime time.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: Adrian Spratt via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 10:51 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Adrian Spratt
Subject: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

Hi.

I can't get favorites, which Chrome calls bookmarks, to work as
quickly as they do in IE. Here's what I've figured out so far. I
hope the gaps can be filled in.

You get to bookmarks by pressing alt for the menu, then arrowing
down. Press enter on bookmarks. Here, I'm told that the shortcut
control-shift-b brings up bookmarks, but that shortcut isn't working
on my system when I'm outside this menu. Each time I have to go
through the menu.

In IE, I press alt-a to bring up my favorites list, and first-letter
navigation works. I can't find anything this simple using Chrome.

One item in the bookmarks submenu allows you to import favorites
settings. I clicked on this, tabbed through the options, and was
told at the end that I was successful. However, nothing seems to
have been imported.

Any ideas?
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Re: Assertion that "Chrome is not ready for prime time!"

David Moore
 

Hi Tom,
Good to talk to you.
I will indeed let you know what Freedom Scientific says. Google Chrome is accessible enough to navigate web pages and to stream media. Chrome is so fast. What I can tell you is that all navigation commands in JAWS work in Chrome is in IE or Firefox. I have my Masters in Math Education, and I would like to talk to you. Take care and have a great one.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Behler via Jfw
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2015 11:12 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Cc: Tom Behler
Subject: RE: Assertion that "Chrome is not ready for prime time!"

David:

Please let us know the results of your conversation with FS regarding Google
Chrome accessibility.

I have yet to try it, but may well do so if things continue to move in a
positive direction.

Currently, I use a combination of Internet Explorer and Firefox.

Dr. Tom Behler from Michigan


-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of David Moore
via Jfw
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2015 1:07 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: David Moore
Subject: Re: Assertion that "Chrome is not ready for prime time!"

Hi Dennis,
I am the original person who said that Google Chrome is totally accessible.
My name is David Moore. Well, I didn't litterly mean totally accessible, and
I was very excited after working with Chrome after two days. I got carried
away. When I saw just how much more accessible Chrome has become in the last
two years, I wondered why the blind think that it is still totally
inaccessible. A lot of Chrome is accessible, much more than the blind
realize. Dennis, It is because of what you said that I have mentioned Chrome
on so many lists, and I am encouraging the blind to try it to see for
themselves just how far its accessibility has come. It still needs work, I
know. But I am asking the same question. Why is Freedom Scientific not
putting as much work into making Chrome accessible since it is by far the
most used browser in colleges and employment. It makes me wonder and I want
the blind to think about this question. I will keep quiet and just leave it
right there. By the way, Chrome is just as accessible with NVDA as it is
with JAWS. Also, the more tools you have the better off people are. Google
Chrome may not be to the point yet to make it your default browser, but it
is a good third browser to use. It is good to have two or three screen
readers as well. When it comes to streaming TV channels and so on, Chrome
beats IE and Firefox hands down. It never crashes once on me. I use Chrome
more than IE, because IE crashes almost every time I stream video with it.
It will not even open a large web site. Chrome opens large sites twice as
fast as IE. Many web sites are accessible with Chrome. I am glad people are
realizing it. If I caused a few people to try Chrome, I have done my job
which is to help all and bring what is hidden into the light. I am
contacting Freedom Scientific on Monday and asking a lot of questions about
making Chrome totally accessible and why it hasn't been done already. I urge
all of you to do the same. Enjoy Chrome for what it can do, not for what it
can not do. Take care all, and thank you Dennis for saying what you did.


-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Byrne via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2015 7:53 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Pat Byrne
Subject: Re: Assertion that "Chrome is not ready for prime time!"

Dennis,
Very well said.
Pat ByrneAt 06:33 PM 11/7/2015, you wrote:
Hello Gerald and others,
At Harvard and I think Stanford, Google Chrome is used in the
programming classes for web development, so they apparently do not
share Eric Damery's opinion as presented in the email post. I would be
curious to know how recently Eric made that statement. Chrome, at least
for sighted programmers is a very important program because it can
process the HTML source code from a webpage and present it in a very
"human readable" form, as opposed to simply displaying the source code
directly in its raw form. As David Malan who teaches CS50 and other web
programming courses at Harvard explains in the first class, IE and Firefox
do not provide this capability.
He doesn't care what browsers students choose to use, he simply
explains that it will be much more difficult if one does not use Chrome
to do internet programming, because of its built-in tools.

Perhaps Eric meant that Chrome is not ready for prime time for blind
people using screen readers. If so, this is obviously very bad news for
blind programmers taking CS courses at Harvard and Stanford, since
their performance will be measured against sighted students in their
classes who are using Chrome, and the blind student's productivity will
be seriously diminished and their ability to complete their assignments
on time made almost impossible without Chrome.

Likewise, if employers are using Chrome for the same reason as David
Malan, and blind programmers can't use it, they are not going to be
hired. This isn't discrimination. The employer would be correct in
concluding that the blind programmer cannot do the job as quickly and
efficiently as a sighted programmer, so to hire the blind programmer
would mean the employer is paying the same money for less software output.

I had not looked at Chrome for almost 2 years since I tried to use it
in a programming course, and at that time I found it virtually
inaccessible using Jaws. When I downloaded it again 2 days ago after
reading an earlier email stating that it is now "totally accessible," I
was very pleased and surprised at the current level of Chrome's
accessibility. Prior to this, I believed their was something about the
way Chrome was programmed that made it inherently incompatible with
screen readers, but this is clearly not the case.

If Eric actually believes "Chrome isn't ready for prime time", then
this would explain and justify an anemic effort by Freedom Scientific
to support Chrome, since no company would spend development capital to
support a product which it believes is never going to take hold, or
won't mature for a substantial time.

But corporate decision making and assignment of priorities most times
falls somewhere between mysterious and inexplicable, and is too often
motivated by attempts to gain market advantage, or based on hidden
corporate alliances. Who can know? It has become a common practice for
salesmen to disparage products they don't sell or can't support, as
well as disparaging their own older products when they are now trying to
sell their new ones.

I hope Jaws users will download Chrome, try to systematically find its
deficiencies with Jaws, and send this information to Freedom Scientific
so that Chrome can be made as close to 100 percent accessible as is
possible using a screen reader. for us as blind people, software like
Chrome is a matter of employment instead of unemployment. When I
obtained my MS in computer science in 1984, virtually all computer jobs
were available to me, because all programming environments were 100
percent accessible to me using my Braille computer terminal and an Optacon
to fill in the gaps.

Today, so much software is inaccessible at a level necessary for
employment, that it has become increasingly difficult for us to find
and keep jobs of any sort, because most jobs involve using a computer.
And as many on this list know through personal experience, that which
is accessible today, can easily become inaccessible tomorrow simply
because a vendor chooses to release a software upgrade, with
unemployment being the result. When the blind employee can no longer
perform his job, what is the employer's alternative? The employer is
powerless to fix the problem, since they don't write the application
software or the screen reader programs.
Even if the employer doesn't wish to upgrade because of the effect it
will have on the blind employee, a small employer will ultimately have
no choice because the software vendor will stop support for the old
product to force the business to buy the new product.

I think it is critical that we as customers let Freedom Scientific know
what products we need to be made accessible, otherwise they can only guess.
This isn't their fault. By definition, they work for a small software
company, so the jobs they see and experience are in that environment,
and their priorities are established from that vantage point. If your a
blind lawyer and you cannot get or keep a job at a mega law firm
because the new law firm billing software is not accessible, this is
something FS won't experience and won't know about. Likewise, if you're
a financial advisor and you cannot get or keep a job at a Wall Street
firm or mega bank, FS will not know what job critical software must be
made accessible unless they are told. These are examples of the places
where jobs are located, and we cannot get and keep those jobs if we are
unable to use the software on which the jobs are based. Last time I
checked into this, most of the corporate networks for these large firms
are still running Windows XP, very old versions of MS Office, and the
inaccessible applications they are running are not Microsoft products.
I would be curious to know how much money and effort FS has spent on IE
11 accessibility as opposed to Google Chrome.

Just my 2 cents worth, but accounting for inflation may be worth 4
cents, though probably not quite that much.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Levy via Jfw"
<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Cc: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@verizon.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites



Which explains why Eric Damery still advises JAWS users to avoid Chrome.
As far as he is concerned, Chrome is still not ready yet for prime time.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: Adrian Spratt via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 10:51 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Adrian Spratt
Subject: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

Hi.

I can't get favorites, which Chrome calls bookmarks, to work as
quickly as they do in IE. Here's what I've figured out so far. I hope
the gaps can be filled in.

You get to bookmarks by pressing alt for the menu, then arrowing down.
Press enter on bookmarks. Here, I'm told that the shortcut
control-shift-b brings up bookmarks, but that shortcut isn't working
on my system when I'm outside this menu. Each time I have to go through
the menu.

In IE, I press alt-a to bring up my favorites list, and first-letter
navigation works. I can't find anything this simple using Chrome.

One item in the bookmarks submenu allows you to import favorites settings.
I clicked on this, tabbed through the options, and was told at the end
that I was successful. However, nothing seems to have been imported.

Any ideas?
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Re: Assertion that "Chrome is not ready for prime time!"

David Moore
 

Hi,
Chrome has changed a great deal in the past two years. It is a different experience totally using it now compared to even a year ago. I will have my tutorial ready this week after I look at many different web pages and work with it in many situations. I can tell you that all the navigation html commands in JAWS work in chrome. Navigating a web page is very similar to working in IE or Firefox. One thing I have found out is that Chrome works much much better if forms mode is set to manual. If forms mode is set to automatic, JAWS keeps going into forms mode on Chrome. You can set this temporarily in Chrome, and change it back. Take care and I will have much more for you this week.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kramlinger, Keith G., M.D. via Jfw
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2015 12:36 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Cc: Kramlinger, Keith G., M.D.
Subject: RE: Assertion that "Chrome is not ready for prime time!"

I had a terrible experience with Chrome a few years back, and have been hesitant to try again, but probably will once I review and thoroughly understand David Moore's podcast when it becomes available.

I certainly hope FS will take Chrome on to improve its workability with Chrome.

Does anyone have a sense of what Google's commitment to accessibility is? I've been under the impression it's casual at best.

Thanks, Keith

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of David Moore via Jfw
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2015 12:07 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: David Moore
Subject: Re: Assertion that "Chrome is not ready for prime time!"

Hi Dennis,
I am the original person who said that Google Chrome is totally accessible.
My name is David Moore. Well, I didn't litterly mean totally accessible, and I was very excited after working with Chrome after two days. I got carried away. When I saw just how much more accessible Chrome has become in the last two years, I wondered why the blind think that it is still totally inaccessible. A lot of Chrome is accessible, much more than the blind realize. Dennis, It is because of what you said that I have mentioned Chrome on so many lists, and I am encouraging the blind to try it to see for themselves just how far its accessibility has come. It still needs work, I know. But I am asking the same question. Why is Freedom Scientific not putting as much work into making Chrome accessible since it is by far the most used browser in colleges and employment. It makes me wonder and I want the blind to think about this question. I will keep quiet and just leave it right there. By the way, Chrome is just as accessible with NVDA as it is with JAWS. Also, the more tools you have the better off people are. Google Chrome may not be to the point yet to make it your default browser, but it is a good third browser to use. It is good to have two or three screen readers as well. When it comes to streaming TV channels and so on, Chrome beats IE and Firefox hands down. It never crashes once on me. I use Chrome more than IE, because IE crashes almost every time I stream video with it.
It will not even open a large web site. Chrome opens large sites twice as fast as IE. Many web sites are accessible with Chrome. I am glad people are realizing it. If I caused a few people to try Chrome, I have done my job which is to help all and bring what is hidden into the light. I am contacting Freedom Scientific on Monday and asking a lot of questions about making Chrome totally accessible and why it hasn't been done already. I urge all of you to do the same. Enjoy Chrome for what it can do, not for what it can not do. Take care all, and thank you Dennis for saying what you did.


-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Byrne via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2015 7:53 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Pat Byrne
Subject: Re: Assertion that "Chrome is not ready for prime time!"

Dennis,
Very well said.
Pat ByrneAt 06:33 PM 11/7/2015, you wrote:
Hello Gerald and others,
At Harvard and I think Stanford, Google Chrome is used in the
programming classes for web development, so they apparently do not
share Eric Damery's opinion as presented in the email post. I would be
curious to know how recently Eric made that statement. Chrome, at least
for sighted programmers is a very important program because it can
process the HTML source code from a webpage and present it in a very
"human readable" form, as opposed to simply displaying the source code
directly in its raw form. As David Malan who teaches CS50 and other web
programming courses at Harvard explains in the first class, IE and Firefox do not provide this capability.
He doesn't care what browsers students choose to use, he simply
explains that it will be much more difficult if one does not use Chrome
to do internet programming, because of its built-in tools.

Perhaps Eric meant that Chrome is not ready for prime time for blind
people using screen readers. If so, this is obviously very bad news for
blind programmers taking CS courses at Harvard and Stanford, since
their performance will be measured against sighted students in their
classes who are using Chrome, and the blind student's productivity will
be seriously diminished and their ability to complete their assignments
on time made almost impossible without Chrome.

Likewise, if employers are using Chrome for the same reason as David
Malan, and blind programmers can't use it, they are not going to be
hired. This isn't discrimination. The employer would be correct in
concluding that the blind programmer cannot do the job as quickly and
efficiently as a sighted programmer, so to hire the blind programmer
would mean the employer is paying the same money for less software output.

I had not looked at Chrome for almost 2 years since I tried to use it
in a programming course, and at that time I found it virtually
inaccessible using Jaws. When I downloaded it again 2 days ago after
reading an earlier email stating that it is now "totally accessible," I
was very pleased and surprised at the current level of Chrome's
accessibility. Prior to this, I believed their was something about the
way Chrome was programmed that made it inherently incompatible with
screen readers, but this is clearly not the case.

If Eric actually believes "Chrome isn't ready for prime time", then
this would explain and justify an anemic effort by Freedom Scientific
to support Chrome, since no company would spend development capital to
support a product which it believes is never going to take hold, or
won't mature for a substantial time.

But corporate decision making and assignment of priorities most times
falls somewhere between mysterious and inexplicable, and is too often
motivated by attempts to gain market advantage, or based on hidden
corporate alliances. Who can know? It has become a common practice for
salesmen to disparage products they don't sell or can't support, as
well as disparaging their own older products when they are now trying to sell their new ones.

I hope Jaws users will download Chrome, try to systematically find its
deficiencies with Jaws, and send this information to Freedom Scientific
so that Chrome can be made as close to 100 percent accessible as is
possible using a screen reader. for us as blind people, software like
Chrome is a matter of employment instead of unemployment. When I
obtained my MS in computer science in 1984, virtually all computer jobs
were available to me, because all programming environments were 100
percent accessible to me using my Braille computer terminal and an Optacon to fill in the gaps.

Today, so much software is inaccessible at a level necessary for
employment, that it has become increasingly difficult for us to find
and keep jobs of any sort, because most jobs involve using a computer.
And as many on this list know through personal experience, that which
is accessible today, can easily become inaccessible tomorrow simply
because a vendor chooses to release a software upgrade, with
unemployment being the result. When the blind employee can no longer
perform his job, what is the employer's alternative? The employer is
powerless to fix the problem, since they don't write the application software or the screen reader programs.
Even if the employer doesn't wish to upgrade because of the effect it
will have on the blind employee, a small employer will ultimately have
no choice because the software vendor will stop support for the old
product to force the business to buy the new product.

I think it is critical that we as customers let Freedom Scientific know
what products we need to be made accessible, otherwise they can only guess.
This isn't their fault. By definition, they work for a small software
company, so the jobs they see and experience are in that environment,
and their priorities are established from that vantage point. If your a
blind lawyer and you cannot get or keep a job at a mega law firm
because the new law firm billing software is not accessible, this is
something FS won't experience and won't know about. Likewise, if you're
a financial advisor and you cannot get or keep a job at a Wall Street
firm or mega bank, FS will not know what job critical software must be
made accessible unless they are told. These are examples of the places
where jobs are located, and we cannot get and keep those jobs if we are
unable to use the software on which the jobs are based. Last time I
checked into this, most of the corporate networks for these large firms
are still running Windows XP, very old versions of MS Office, and the
inaccessible applications they are running are not Microsoft products.
I would be curious to know how much money and effort FS has spent on IE
11 accessibility as opposed to Google Chrome.

Just my 2 cents worth, but accounting for inflation may be worth 4
cents, though probably not quite that much.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Levy via Jfw"
<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Cc: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@verizon.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites



Which explains why Eric Damery still advises JAWS users to avoid Chrome.
As far as he is concerned, Chrome is still not ready yet for prime time.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: Adrian Spratt via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 10:51 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Adrian Spratt
Subject: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

Hi.

I can't get favorites, which Chrome calls bookmarks, to work as
quickly as they do in IE. Here's what I've figured out so far. I hope
the gaps can be filled in.

You get to bookmarks by pressing alt for the menu, then arrowing down.
Press enter on bookmarks. Here, I'm told that the shortcut
control-shift-b brings up bookmarks, but that shortcut isn't working
on my system when I'm outside this menu. Each time I have to go through the menu.

In IE, I press alt-a to bring up my favorites list, and first-letter
navigation works. I can't find anything this simple using Chrome.

One item in the bookmarks submenu allows you to import favorites settings.
I clicked on this, tabbed through the options, and was told at the end
that I was successful. However, nothing seems to have been imported.

Any ideas?
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Re: jaws 17 braille error in windows10

Mark Furness
 

I am not using a braille display.
Also, such folders mentioned do not exist on my PC.
At least I could not find it.’
I am using a 64bit system.
Never had a braille display. But, I will
chech if jaws says or thinks I have a display in its settings.

Thank you for your help Debbie.

On Nov 7, 2015, at 9:22 PM, Debbie April Yuille via Jfw <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> wrote:

Hi Mark

What Braille Display are you using? Also are you running a 32-bit or 64-bit
operating system? If you are running a 64-bit OS, then Braille Displays must
have signed drivers to be able to work under the OS.

Debbie
Skype: apparating.girl

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Mark Furness
via Jfw
Sent: Sunday, 8 November 2015 2:04 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list. <Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Cc: Mark Furness <flintman57@gmail.com>
Subject: jaws 17 braille error in windows10

Every time I start my PC Jaws says the braille driver can not be loaded
because jaws could not verify its digital signature
the file is
c:\programdata\freedom scientific\jaws\17.0\settings\enu\default.jcf

How do I fix this problem?
Thank you for your help.

Mark
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Re: Assertion that "Chrome is not ready for prime time!"

Kramlinger, Keith G., M.D.
 

I had a terrible experience with Chrome a few years back, and have been hesitant to try again, but probably will once I review and thoroughly understand David Moore's podcast when it becomes available.

I certainly hope FS will take Chrome on to improve its workability with Chrome.

Does anyone have a sense of what Google's commitment to accessibility is? I've been under the impression it's casual at best.

Thanks, Keith

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of David Moore via Jfw
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2015 12:07 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: David Moore
Subject: Re: Assertion that "Chrome is not ready for prime time!"

Hi Dennis,
I am the original person who said that Google Chrome is totally accessible.
My name is David Moore. Well, I didn't litterly mean totally accessible, and I was very excited after working with Chrome after two days. I got carried away. When I saw just how much more accessible Chrome has become in the last two years, I wondered why the blind think that it is still totally inaccessible. A lot of Chrome is accessible, much more than the blind realize. Dennis, It is because of what you said that I have mentioned Chrome on so many lists, and I am encouraging the blind to try it to see for themselves just how far its accessibility has come. It still needs work, I know. But I am asking the same question. Why is Freedom Scientific not putting as much work into making Chrome accessible since it is by far the most used browser in colleges and employment. It makes me wonder and I want the blind to think about this question. I will keep quiet and just leave it right there. By the way, Chrome is just as accessible with NVDA as it is with JAWS. Also, the more tools you have the better off people are. Google Chrome may not be to the point yet to make it your default browser, but it is a good third browser to use. It is good to have two or three screen readers as well. When it comes to streaming TV channels and so on, Chrome beats IE and Firefox hands down. It never crashes once on me. I use Chrome more than IE, because IE crashes almost every time I stream video with it.
It will not even open a large web site. Chrome opens large sites twice as fast as IE. Many web sites are accessible with Chrome. I am glad people are realizing it. If I caused a few people to try Chrome, I have done my job which is to help all and bring what is hidden into the light. I am contacting Freedom Scientific on Monday and asking a lot of questions about making Chrome totally accessible and why it hasn't been done already. I urge all of you to do the same. Enjoy Chrome for what it can do, not for what it can not do. Take care all, and thank you Dennis for saying what you did.


-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Byrne via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2015 7:53 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Pat Byrne
Subject: Re: Assertion that "Chrome is not ready for prime time!"

Dennis,
Very well said.
Pat ByrneAt 06:33 PM 11/7/2015, you wrote:
Hello Gerald and others,
At Harvard and I think Stanford, Google Chrome is used in the
programming classes for web development, so they apparently do not
share Eric Damery's opinion as presented in the email post. I would be
curious to know how recently Eric made that statement. Chrome, at least
for sighted programmers is a very important program because it can
process the HTML source code from a webpage and present it in a very
"human readable" form, as opposed to simply displaying the source code
directly in its raw form. As David Malan who teaches CS50 and other web
programming courses at Harvard explains in the first class, IE and Firefox do not provide this capability.
He doesn't care what browsers students choose to use, he simply
explains that it will be much more difficult if one does not use Chrome
to do internet programming, because of its built-in tools.

Perhaps Eric meant that Chrome is not ready for prime time for blind
people using screen readers. If so, this is obviously very bad news for
blind programmers taking CS courses at Harvard and Stanford, since
their performance will be measured against sighted students in their
classes who are using Chrome, and the blind student's productivity will
be seriously diminished and their ability to complete their assignments
on time made almost impossible without Chrome.

Likewise, if employers are using Chrome for the same reason as David
Malan, and blind programmers can't use it, they are not going to be
hired. This isn't discrimination. The employer would be correct in
concluding that the blind programmer cannot do the job as quickly and
efficiently as a sighted programmer, so to hire the blind programmer
would mean the employer is paying the same money for less software output.

I had not looked at Chrome for almost 2 years since I tried to use it
in a programming course, and at that time I found it virtually
inaccessible using Jaws. When I downloaded it again 2 days ago after
reading an earlier email stating that it is now "totally accessible," I
was very pleased and surprised at the current level of Chrome's
accessibility. Prior to this, I believed their was something about the
way Chrome was programmed that made it inherently incompatible with
screen readers, but this is clearly not the case.

If Eric actually believes "Chrome isn't ready for prime time", then
this would explain and justify an anemic effort by Freedom Scientific
to support Chrome, since no company would spend development capital to
support a product which it believes is never going to take hold, or
won't mature for a substantial time.

But corporate decision making and assignment of priorities most times
falls somewhere between mysterious and inexplicable, and is too often
motivated by attempts to gain market advantage, or based on hidden
corporate alliances. Who can know? It has become a common practice for
salesmen to disparage products they don't sell or can't support, as
well as disparaging their own older products when they are now trying to sell their new ones.

I hope Jaws users will download Chrome, try to systematically find its
deficiencies with Jaws, and send this information to Freedom Scientific
so that Chrome can be made as close to 100 percent accessible as is
possible using a screen reader. for us as blind people, software like
Chrome is a matter of employment instead of unemployment. When I
obtained my MS in computer science in 1984, virtually all computer jobs
were available to me, because all programming environments were 100
percent accessible to me using my Braille computer terminal and an Optacon to fill in the gaps.

Today, so much software is inaccessible at a level necessary for
employment, that it has become increasingly difficult for us to find
and keep jobs of any sort, because most jobs involve using a computer.
And as many on this list know through personal experience, that which
is accessible today, can easily become inaccessible tomorrow simply
because a vendor chooses to release a software upgrade, with
unemployment being the result. When the blind employee can no longer
perform his job, what is the employer's alternative? The employer is
powerless to fix the problem, since they don't write the application software or the screen reader programs.
Even if the employer doesn't wish to upgrade because of the effect it
will have on the blind employee, a small employer will ultimately have
no choice because the software vendor will stop support for the old
product to force the business to buy the new product.

I think it is critical that we as customers let Freedom Scientific know
what products we need to be made accessible, otherwise they can only guess.
This isn't their fault. By definition, they work for a small software
company, so the jobs they see and experience are in that environment,
and their priorities are established from that vantage point. If your a
blind lawyer and you cannot get or keep a job at a mega law firm
because the new law firm billing software is not accessible, this is
something FS won't experience and won't know about. Likewise, if you're
a financial advisor and you cannot get or keep a job at a Wall Street
firm or mega bank, FS will not know what job critical software must be
made accessible unless they are told. These are examples of the places
where jobs are located, and we cannot get and keep those jobs if we are
unable to use the software on which the jobs are based. Last time I
checked into this, most of the corporate networks for these large firms
are still running Windows XP, very old versions of MS Office, and the
inaccessible applications they are running are not Microsoft products.
I would be curious to know how much money and effort FS has spent on IE
11 accessibility as opposed to Google Chrome.

Just my 2 cents worth, but accounting for inflation may be worth 4
cents, though probably not quite that much.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Levy via Jfw"
<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Cc: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@verizon.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites



Which explains why Eric Damery still advises JAWS users to avoid Chrome.
As far as he is concerned, Chrome is still not ready yet for prime time.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: Adrian Spratt via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 10:51 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Adrian Spratt
Subject: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

Hi.

I can't get favorites, which Chrome calls bookmarks, to work as
quickly as they do in IE. Here's what I've figured out so far. I hope
the gaps can be filled in.

You get to bookmarks by pressing alt for the menu, then arrowing down.
Press enter on bookmarks. Here, I'm told that the shortcut
control-shift-b brings up bookmarks, but that shortcut isn't working
on my system when I'm outside this menu. Each time I have to go through the menu.

In IE, I press alt-a to bring up my favorites list, and first-letter
navigation works. I can't find anything this simple using Chrome.

One item in the bookmarks submenu allows you to import favorites settings.
I clicked on this, tabbed through the options, and was told at the end
that I was successful. However, nothing seems to have been imported.

Any ideas?
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Re: Email Ascending vs. Descending

Dave...
 

MS-Outlook, or WLM, or Outlook Express? If OE, then View menu, Current view,
look for group by conversation and uncheck.

Dave Carlson
Oregonian, woodworker, Engineer, Musician, and Pioneer

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Arnold via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Cc: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@windstream.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2015 07:35 AM
Subject: RE: Email Ascending vs. Descending


How would I do that, David?

This morning, I couldn't get into my Inbox; it said it was collapsed,
restarted, same problem. I Alted this and that, finally hit Shift F10,
and it said expand, so I entered, and at least I can get into them now. I
will try grouping. I would appreciate instruction if you know how to do
that so that I won't just try to figure it out and maybe mess up
something. Thank you.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Carlson via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2015 11:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list. <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Cc: Dave Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Email Ascending vs. Descending

Carolyn,

Are you grouping your messages, perhaps? If they are grouped so that each
subject requires expanding, then it will default to ascending, regardless
of your view settings. If you have descending set and are not grouping,
then I would expect them to be sorted descending.

Dave Carlson
Oregonian, woodworker, Engineer, Musician, and Pioneer

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Arnold via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Cc: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@windstream.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 09:40 AM
Subject: Outlook 2013.


Yesterday, we ran a full systems scan. Since that time, I noticed that
the e-mails in my Inbox, not my others, were in descending order. I went
in and checked back on ascending. Yet, they are still coming in
descending order. Anyone have any idea how I can make it do my way,
e-mails in ascending order. I checked back, and ascending is checked.
Thanks for any ideas.



Best from,



Carolyn



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Re: Assertion that "Chrome is not ready for prime time!"

Tom Behler
 

David:

Please let us know the results of your conversation with FS regarding Google
Chrome accessibility.

I have yet to try it, but may well do so if things continue to move in a
positive direction.

Currently, I use a combination of Internet Explorer and Firefox.

Dr. Tom Behler from Michigan

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of David Moore
via Jfw
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2015 1:07 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: David Moore
Subject: Re: Assertion that "Chrome is not ready for prime time!"

Hi Dennis,
I am the original person who said that Google Chrome is totally accessible.
My name is David Moore. Well, I didn't litterly mean totally accessible, and
I was very excited after working with Chrome after two days. I got carried
away. When I saw just how much more accessible Chrome has become in the last
two years, I wondered why the blind think that it is still totally
inaccessible. A lot of Chrome is accessible, much more than the blind
realize. Dennis, It is because of what you said that I have mentioned Chrome
on so many lists, and I am encouraging the blind to try it to see for
themselves just how far its accessibility has come. It still needs work, I
know. But I am asking the same question. Why is Freedom Scientific not
putting as much work into making Chrome accessible since it is by far the
most used browser in colleges and employment. It makes me wonder and I want
the blind to think about this question. I will keep quiet and just leave it
right there. By the way, Chrome is just as accessible with NVDA as it is
with JAWS. Also, the more tools you have the better off people are. Google
Chrome may not be to the point yet to make it your default browser, but it
is a good third browser to use. It is good to have two or three screen
readers as well. When it comes to streaming TV channels and so on, Chrome
beats IE and Firefox hands down. It never crashes once on me. I use Chrome
more than IE, because IE crashes almost every time I stream video with it.
It will not even open a large web site. Chrome opens large sites twice as
fast as IE. Many web sites are accessible with Chrome. I am glad people are
realizing it. If I caused a few people to try Chrome, I have done my job
which is to help all and bring what is hidden into the light. I am
contacting Freedom Scientific on Monday and asking a lot of questions about
making Chrome totally accessible and why it hasn't been done already. I urge
all of you to do the same. Enjoy Chrome for what it can do, not for what it
can not do. Take care all, and thank you Dennis for saying what you did.


-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Byrne via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2015 7:53 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Pat Byrne
Subject: Re: Assertion that "Chrome is not ready for prime time!"

Dennis,
Very well said.
Pat ByrneAt 06:33 PM 11/7/2015, you wrote:
Hello Gerald and others,
At Harvard and I think Stanford, Google Chrome is used in the
programming classes for web development, so they apparently do not
share Eric Damery's opinion as presented in the email post. I would be
curious to know how recently Eric made that statement. Chrome, at least
for sighted programmers is a very important program because it can
process the HTML source code from a webpage and present it in a very
"human readable" form, as opposed to simply displaying the source code
directly in its raw form. As David Malan who teaches CS50 and other web
programming courses at Harvard explains in the first class, IE and Firefox
do not provide this capability.
He doesn't care what browsers students choose to use, he simply
explains that it will be much more difficult if one does not use Chrome
to do internet programming, because of its built-in tools.

Perhaps Eric meant that Chrome is not ready for prime time for blind
people using screen readers. If so, this is obviously very bad news for
blind programmers taking CS courses at Harvard and Stanford, since
their performance will be measured against sighted students in their
classes who are using Chrome, and the blind student's productivity will
be seriously diminished and their ability to complete their assignments
on time made almost impossible without Chrome.

Likewise, if employers are using Chrome for the same reason as David
Malan, and blind programmers can't use it, they are not going to be
hired. This isn't discrimination. The employer would be correct in
concluding that the blind programmer cannot do the job as quickly and
efficiently as a sighted programmer, so to hire the blind programmer
would mean the employer is paying the same money for less software output.

I had not looked at Chrome for almost 2 years since I tried to use it
in a programming course, and at that time I found it virtually
inaccessible using Jaws. When I downloaded it again 2 days ago after
reading an earlier email stating that it is now "totally accessible," I
was very pleased and surprised at the current level of Chrome's
accessibility. Prior to this, I believed their was something about the
way Chrome was programmed that made it inherently incompatible with
screen readers, but this is clearly not the case.

If Eric actually believes "Chrome isn't ready for prime time", then
this would explain and justify an anemic effort by Freedom Scientific
to support Chrome, since no company would spend development capital to
support a product which it believes is never going to take hold, or
won't mature for a substantial time.

But corporate decision making and assignment of priorities most times
falls somewhere between mysterious and inexplicable, and is too often
motivated by attempts to gain market advantage, or based on hidden
corporate alliances. Who can know? It has become a common practice for
salesmen to disparage products they don't sell or can't support, as
well as disparaging their own older products when they are now trying to
sell their new ones.

I hope Jaws users will download Chrome, try to systematically find its
deficiencies with Jaws, and send this information to Freedom Scientific
so that Chrome can be made as close to 100 percent accessible as is
possible using a screen reader. for us as blind people, software like
Chrome is a matter of employment instead of unemployment. When I
obtained my MS in computer science in 1984, virtually all computer jobs
were available to me, because all programming environments were 100
percent accessible to me using my Braille computer terminal and an Optacon
to fill in the gaps.

Today, so much software is inaccessible at a level necessary for
employment, that it has become increasingly difficult for us to find
and keep jobs of any sort, because most jobs involve using a computer.
And as many on this list know through personal experience, that which
is accessible today, can easily become inaccessible tomorrow simply
because a vendor chooses to release a software upgrade, with
unemployment being the result. When the blind employee can no longer
perform his job, what is the employer's alternative? The employer is
powerless to fix the problem, since they don't write the application
software or the screen reader programs.
Even if the employer doesn't wish to upgrade because of the effect it
will have on the blind employee, a small employer will ultimately have
no choice because the software vendor will stop support for the old
product to force the business to buy the new product.

I think it is critical that we as customers let Freedom Scientific know
what products we need to be made accessible, otherwise they can only guess.
This isn't their fault. By definition, they work for a small software
company, so the jobs they see and experience are in that environment,
and their priorities are established from that vantage point. If your a
blind lawyer and you cannot get or keep a job at a mega law firm
because the new law firm billing software is not accessible, this is
something FS won't experience and won't know about. Likewise, if you're
a financial advisor and you cannot get or keep a job at a Wall Street
firm or mega bank, FS will not know what job critical software must be
made accessible unless they are told. These are examples of the places
where jobs are located, and we cannot get and keep those jobs if we are
unable to use the software on which the jobs are based. Last time I
checked into this, most of the corporate networks for these large firms
are still running Windows XP, very old versions of MS Office, and the
inaccessible applications they are running are not Microsoft products.
I would be curious to know how much money and effort FS has spent on IE
11 accessibility as opposed to Google Chrome.

Just my 2 cents worth, but accounting for inflation may be worth 4
cents, though probably not quite that much.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Levy via Jfw"
<jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Cc: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@verizon.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites



Which explains why Eric Damery still advises JAWS users to avoid Chrome.
As far as he is concerned, Chrome is still not ready yet for prime time.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: Adrian Spratt via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 10:51 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Adrian Spratt
Subject: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

Hi.

I can't get favorites, which Chrome calls bookmarks, to work as
quickly as they do in IE. Here's what I've figured out so far. I hope
the gaps can be filled in.

You get to bookmarks by pressing alt for the menu, then arrowing down.
Press enter on bookmarks. Here, I'm told that the shortcut
control-shift-b brings up bookmarks, but that shortcut isn't working
on my system when I'm outside this menu. Each time I have to go through
the menu.

In IE, I press alt-a to bring up my favorites list, and first-letter
navigation works. I can't find anything this simple using Chrome.

One item in the bookmarks submenu allows you to import favorites settings.
I clicked on this, tabbed through the options, and was told at the end
that I was successful. However, nothing seems to have been imported.

Any ideas?
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Re: Email Ascending vs. Descending

Carolyn Arnold <4carolyna@...>
 

How would I do that, David?

This morning, I couldn't get into my Inbox; it said it was collapsed,
restarted, same problem. I Alted this and that, finally hit Shift F10,
and it said expand, so I entered, and at least I can get into them now. I
will try grouping. I would appreciate instruction if you know how to do
that so that I won't just try to figure it out and maybe mess up
something. Thank you.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Carlson via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2015 11:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list. <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Cc: Dave Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Email Ascending vs. Descending

Carolyn,

Are you grouping your messages, perhaps? If they are grouped so that each
subject requires expanding, then it will default to ascending, regardless
of your view settings. If you have descending set and are not grouping,
then I would expect them to be sorted descending.

Dave Carlson
Oregonian, woodworker, Engineer, Musician, and Pioneer

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Arnold via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Cc: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@windstream.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 09:40 AM
Subject: Outlook 2013.


Yesterday, we ran a full systems scan. Since that time, I noticed that
the e-mails in my Inbox, not my others, were in descending order. I went
in and checked back on ascending. Yet, they are still coming in
descending order. Anyone have any idea how I can make it do my way,
e-mails in ascending order. I checked back, and ascending is checked.
Thanks for any ideas.



Best from,



Carolyn



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Re: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

Bill White <billwhite92701@...>
 

Hi, Adrian. When you say that Bookmarks in Chrome is like Favorites in Internet Explorer, do you know if Bookmarks in Chrome are stored as shortcuts the way IE stores them, or does Chrome store Bookmarks in a data file the way Firefox does?

Thank you.
Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Spratt via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Cc: "Adrian Spratt" <Adrian@AdrianSpratt.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2015 4:18 AM
Subject: RE: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites


I can elaborate on this. Note that the term "bookmarks" in Chrome means the same thing as "favorites" in IE.

First, the fastest way I've found to get to book marks is to press alt, down arrow once, then press b. From there, as David says, right arrow into the main bookmarks menu, which includes bookmarks created in Chrome, and arrow up or down through the options.

However, first-letter navigation through this main bookmarks menu is risky. When entering this menu, do not press "I." It seems to take me to the bookmarks bar, which I find inefficient and confusing. This impairs the value of using bookmarks in this list, at least for me, because I use first-letter navigation in my IE favorites list all the time.

However, as I mentioned in an earlier post, Chrome makes it very easy to import IE favorites. In the main bookmarks menu, arrow to "Import book marks and settings..." Press enter and start tabbing.

Now that I've imported my IE settings, I now arrow down through the main bookmarks menu to "Imported from IE " to access the favorites/bookmarks I've created over the years. At that point, right arrow twice to enter the IE favorites/bookmarks list. First-letter navigation works fine here.

The bookmarks shortcut, control-shift-b, doesn't immediately work, and I'm confused by what it actually does do. This so-called bar, once I finally get there, requires tabbing, and first-letter navigation doesn't work. I've unchecked "Show bookmarks bar" by pressing enter on this main bookmarks menu item.

Short version: for now, I'll avoid creating bookmarks in Chrome, even though control-d makes it easy to do, and rely on my imported IE favorites.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of David Moore via Jfw
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2015 1:54 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: David Moore
Subject: Re: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

Hi all,
David Moore here. I can tell you now how to work with book marks in Chrome.
To put a web page in your book marks, press ctrl + D. It is saved right
then. Now, to Look and open your book marks, just press alt and down arrow
through the chrome menu until you hear book marks. Next, press right arrow
to open up your book marks, and just press enter on the one you want to open
up. I will tell you about other features as I figure them out and some time
this week, I hope to do an audio tutorial for Chrome. Take care.


-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2015 12:18 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Adrian Spratt
Subject: RE: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

Thank you, Ann. Needless to say, it works. However, with IE as my default,
naturally when I click a favorite, IE takes over. I won't make Chrome my
default until various problems are solved. It would be nice to find Chrome
"fully" accessible because it runs much better than the other browsers, but
I'm not yet convinced. I hope David Moore can address bookmarks and other
issues.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne via
Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 11:48 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Ann Byrne
Subject: Re: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

In windows 7, Favorites can be accessed by pressing Windows key, then
tab, then enter, then 'f' or down arrowing to the favorites
list. This should be independent of your browser. So if you just
want one favorite, it might be faster to go that way.
At 10:35 AM 11/7/2015, you wrote:

Which explains why Eric Damery still advises JAWS users to avoid
Chrome. As far as he is concerned, Chrome is still not ready yet
for prime time.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: Adrian Spratt via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 10:51 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Adrian Spratt
Subject: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

Hi.

I can't get favorites, which Chrome calls bookmarks, to work as
quickly as they do in IE. Here's what I've figured out so far. I
hope the gaps can be filled in.

You get to bookmarks by pressing alt for the menu, then arrowing
down. Press enter on bookmarks. Here, I'm told that the shortcut
control-shift-b brings up bookmarks, but that shortcut isn't working
on my system when I'm outside this menu. Each time I have to go
through the menu.

In IE, I press alt-a to bring up my favorites list, and first-letter
navigation works. I can't find anything this simple using Chrome.

One item in the bookmarks submenu allows you to import favorites
settings. I clicked on this, tabbed through the options, and was
told at the end that I was successful. However, nothing seems to
have been imported.

Any ideas?
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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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Re: Google Chrome

Adrian Spratt
 

It's a new one on me. I just noticed JAWS verbalizing this command as Chrome was loading and was telling me it isn't my default.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Clark via Jfw
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2015 9:33 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Dennis Clark
Subject: Re: Google Chrome

Hi Adrian,
What does the control shift a operation do generally in Jaws. I'm sure I
should know but I don't. Thanks for the Google Chrome tip.
Dennis

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Spratt via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Cc: "Adrian Spratt" <Adrian@AdrianSpratt.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 8:21 PM
Subject: RE: Google Chrome


Try pressing control-shift-a, then tab to something like "don't ask
again." that's how I got past it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne
via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 11:05 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Ann Byrne
Subject: Google Chrome

The first thing that happened when I opened Google Chrome was the
question did I want it as my default browser, which I don't. JAWS 17
read that there were buttons for yes, no, and don't ask me again ...
but I couldn't access them with tab, arrow keys, or the JAWS cursor.


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Re: Google Chrome

Dennis Clark <dennis@...>
 

Hi Adrian,
What does the control shift a operation do generally in Jaws. I'm sure I should know but I don't. Thanks for the Google Chrome tip.
Dennis

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Spratt via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Cc: "Adrian Spratt" <Adrian@AdrianSpratt.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 8:21 PM
Subject: RE: Google Chrome


Try pressing control-shift-a, then tab to something like "don't ask again." that's how I got past it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 11:05 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Ann Byrne
Subject: Google Chrome

The first thing that happened when I opened Google Chrome was the
question did I want it as my default browser, which I don't. JAWS 17
read that there were buttons for yes, no, and don't ask me again ...
but I couldn't access them with tab, arrow keys, or the JAWS cursor.


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

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Re: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

Adrian Spratt
 

I can elaborate on this. Note that the term "bookmarks" in Chrome means the same thing as "favorites" in IE.

First, the fastest way I've found to get to book marks is to press alt, down arrow once, then press b. From there, as David says, right arrow into the main bookmarks menu, which includes bookmarks created in Chrome, and arrow up or down through the options.

However, first-letter navigation through this main bookmarks menu is risky. When entering this menu, do not press "I." It seems to take me to the bookmarks bar, which I find inefficient and confusing. This impairs the value of using bookmarks in this list, at least for me, because I use first-letter navigation in my IE favorites list all the time.

However, as I mentioned in an earlier post, Chrome makes it very easy to import IE favorites. In the main bookmarks menu, arrow to "Import book marks and settings..." Press enter and start tabbing.

Now that I've imported my IE settings, I now arrow down through the main bookmarks menu to "Imported from IE " to access the favorites/bookmarks I've created over the years. At that point, right arrow twice to enter the IE favorites/bookmarks list. First-letter navigation works fine here.

The bookmarks shortcut, control-shift-b, doesn't immediately work, and I'm confused by what it actually does do. This so-called bar, once I finally get there, requires tabbing, and first-letter navigation doesn't work. I've unchecked "Show bookmarks bar" by pressing enter on this main bookmarks menu item.

Short version: for now, I'll avoid creating bookmarks in Chrome, even though control-d makes it easy to do, and rely on my imported IE favorites.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of David Moore via Jfw
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2015 1:54 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: David Moore
Subject: Re: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

Hi all,
David Moore here. I can tell you now how to work with book marks in Chrome.
To put a web page in your book marks, press ctrl + D. It is saved right
then. Now, to Look and open your book marks, just press alt and down arrow
through the chrome menu until you hear book marks. Next, press right arrow
to open up your book marks, and just press enter on the one you want to open
up. I will tell you about other features as I figure them out and some time
this week, I hope to do an audio tutorial for Chrome. Take care.


-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2015 12:18 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Adrian Spratt
Subject: RE: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

Thank you, Ann. Needless to say, it works. However, with IE as my default,
naturally when I click a favorite, IE takes over. I won't make Chrome my
default until various problems are solved. It would be nice to find Chrome
"fully" accessible because it runs much better than the other browsers, but
I'm not yet convinced. I hope David Moore can address bookmarks and other
issues.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne via
Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 11:48 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Ann Byrne
Subject: Re: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

In windows 7, Favorites can be accessed by pressing Windows key, then
tab, then enter, then 'f' or down arrowing to the favorites
list. This should be independent of your browser. So if you just
want one favorite, it might be faster to go that way.
At 10:35 AM 11/7/2015, you wrote:

Which explains why Eric Damery still advises JAWS users to avoid
Chrome. As far as he is concerned, Chrome is still not ready yet
for prime time.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: Adrian Spratt via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 10:51 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Adrian Spratt
Subject: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

Hi.

I can't get favorites, which Chrome calls bookmarks, to work as
quickly as they do in IE. Here's what I've figured out so far. I
hope the gaps can be filled in.

You get to bookmarks by pressing alt for the menu, then arrowing
down. Press enter on bookmarks. Here, I'm told that the shortcut
control-shift-b brings up bookmarks, but that shortcut isn't working
on my system when I'm outside this menu. Each time I have to go
through the menu.

In IE, I press alt-a to bring up my favorites list, and first-letter
navigation works. I can't find anything this simple using Chrome.

One item in the bookmarks submenu allows you to import favorites
settings. I clicked on this, tabbed through the options, and was
told at the end that I was successful. However, nothing seems to
have been imported.

Any ideas?
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Re: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

David Moore
 

Hi all,
David Moore here. I can tell you now how to work with book marks in Chrome. To put a web page in your book marks, press ctrl + D. It is saved right then. Now, to Look and open your book marks, just press alt and down arrow through the chrome menu until you hear book marks. Next, press right arrow to open up your book marks, and just press enter on the one you want to open up. I will tell you about other features as I figure them out and some time this week, I hope to do an audio tutorial for Chrome. Take care.

-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2015 12:18 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Adrian Spratt
Subject: RE: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

Thank you, Ann. Needless to say, it works. However, with IE as my default, naturally when I click a favorite, IE takes over. I won't make Chrome my default until various problems are solved. It would be nice to find Chrome "fully" accessible because it runs much better than the other browsers, but I'm not yet convinced. I hope David Moore can address bookmarks and other issues.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 11:48 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Ann Byrne
Subject: Re: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

In windows 7, Favorites can be accessed by pressing Windows key, then
tab, then enter, then 'f' or down arrowing to the favorites
list. This should be independent of your browser. So if you just
want one favorite, it might be faster to go that way.
At 10:35 AM 11/7/2015, you wrote:

Which explains why Eric Damery still advises JAWS users to avoid
Chrome. As far as he is concerned, Chrome is still not ready yet
for prime time.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: Adrian Spratt via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 10:51 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Adrian Spratt
Subject: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

Hi.

I can't get favorites, which Chrome calls bookmarks, to work as
quickly as they do in IE. Here's what I've figured out so far. I
hope the gaps can be filled in.

You get to bookmarks by pressing alt for the menu, then arrowing
down. Press enter on bookmarks. Here, I'm told that the shortcut
control-shift-b brings up bookmarks, but that shortcut isn't working
on my system when I'm outside this menu. Each time I have to go
through the menu.

In IE, I press alt-a to bring up my favorites list, and first-letter
navigation works. I can't find anything this simple using Chrome.

One item in the bookmarks submenu allows you to import favorites
settings. I clicked on this, tabbed through the options, and was
told at the end that I was successful. However, nothing seems to
have been imported.

Any ideas?
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Re: Assertion that "Chrome is not ready for prime time!"

Dennis Clark <dennis@...>
 

Hello David,
It is because of your email that I took another look at Chrome, and I am grateful to you that you took the time to post your observations. It appears that I am not the only one who feels this way.
All the best,
Dennis

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Moore via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Cc: "David Moore" <jesusloves1966@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Assertion that "Chrome is not ready for prime time!"


Hi Dennis,
I am the original person who said that Google Chrome is totally accessible. My name is David Moore. Well, I didn't litterly mean totally accessible, and I was very excited after working with Chrome after two days. I got carried away. When I saw just how much more accessible Chrome has become in the last two years, I wondered why the blind think that it is still totally inaccessible. A lot of Chrome is accessible, much more than the blind realize. Dennis, It is because of what you said that I have mentioned Chrome on so many lists, and I am encouraging the blind to try it to see for themselves just how far its accessibility has come. It still needs work, I know. But I am asking the same question. Why is Freedom Scientific not putting as much work into making Chrome accessible since it is by far the most used browser in colleges and employment. It makes me wonder and I want the blind to think about this question. I will keep quiet and just leave it right there. By the way, Chrome is just as accessible with NVDA as it is with JAWS. Also, the more tools you have the better off people are. Google Chrome may not be to the point yet to make it your default browser, but it is a good third browser to use. It is good to have two or three screen readers as well. When it comes to streaming TV channels and so on, Chrome beats IE and Firefox hands down. It never crashes once on me. I use Chrome more than IE, because IE crashes almost every time I stream video with it. It will not even open a large web site. Chrome opens large sites twice as fast as IE. Many web sites are accessible with Chrome. I am glad people are realizing it. If I caused a few people to try Chrome, I have done my job which is to help all and bring what is hidden into the light. I am contacting Freedom Scientific on Monday and asking a lot of questions about making Chrome totally accessible and why it hasn't been done already. I urge all of you to do the same. Enjoy Chrome for what it can do, not for what it can not do. Take care all, and thank you Dennis for saying what you did.


-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Byrne via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2015 7:53 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Pat Byrne
Subject: Re: Assertion that "Chrome is not ready for prime time!"

Dennis,
Very well said.
Pat ByrneAt 06:33 PM 11/7/2015, you wrote:
Hello Gerald and others,
At Harvard and I think Stanford, Google Chrome is used in the programming classes for web development, so they apparently do not share Eric Damery's opinion as presented in the email post. I would be curious to know how recently Eric made that statement. Chrome, at least for sighted programmers is a very important program because it can process the HTML source code from a webpage and present it in a very "human readable" form, as opposed to simply displaying the source code directly in its raw form. As David Malan who teaches CS50 and other web programming courses at Harvard explains in the first class, IE and Firefox do not provide this capability. He doesn't care what browsers students choose to use, he simply explains that it will be much more difficult if one does not use Chrome to do internet programming, because of its built-in tools.

Perhaps Eric meant that Chrome is not ready for prime time for blind people using screen readers. If so, this is obviously very bad news for blind programmers taking CS courses at Harvard and Stanford, since their performance will be measured against sighted students in their classes who are using Chrome, and the blind student's productivity will be seriously diminished and their ability to complete their assignments on time made almost impossible without Chrome.

Likewise, if employers are using Chrome for the same reason as David Malan, and blind programmers can't use it, they are not going to be hired. This isn't discrimination. The employer would be correct in concluding that the blind programmer cannot do the job as quickly and efficiently as a sighted programmer, so to hire the blind programmer would mean the employer is paying the same money for less software output.

I had not looked at Chrome for almost 2 years since I tried to use it in a programming course, and at that time I found it virtually inaccessible using Jaws. When I downloaded it again 2 days ago after reading an earlier email stating that it is now "totally accessible," I was very pleased and surprised at the current level of Chrome's accessibility. Prior to this, I believed their was something about the way Chrome was programmed that made it inherently incompatible with screen readers, but this is clearly not the case.

If Eric actually believes "Chrome isn't ready for prime time", then this
would explain and justify an anemic effort by Freedom Scientific to support Chrome, since no company would spend development capital to support a product which it believes is never going to take hold, or won't mature for a substantial time.

But corporate decision making and assignment of priorities most times falls somewhere between mysterious and inexplicable, and is too often motivated by attempts to gain market advantage, or based on hidden corporate alliances. Who can know? It has become a common practice for salesmen to disparage products they don't sell or can't support, as well as disparaging their own older products when they are now trying to sell their new ones.

I hope Jaws users will download Chrome, try to systematically find its deficiencies with Jaws, and send this information to Freedom Scientific so that Chrome can be made as close to 100 percent accessible as is possible using a screen reader. for us as blind people, software like Chrome is a matter of employment instead of unemployment. When I obtained my MS in computer science in 1984, virtually all computer jobs were available to me, because all programming environments were 100 percent accessible to me using my Braille computer terminal and an Optacon to fill in the gaps.

Today, so much software is inaccessible at a level necessary for employment, that it has become increasingly difficult for us to find and keep jobs of any sort, because most jobs involve using a computer. And as many on this list know through personal experience, that which is accessible today, can easily become inaccessible tomorrow simply because a vendor chooses to release a software upgrade, with unemployment being the result. When the blind employee can no longer perform his job, what is the employer's alternative? The employer is powerless to fix the problem, since they don't write the application software or the screen reader programs. Even if the employer doesn't wish to upgrade because of the effect it will have on the blind employee, a small employer will ultimately have no choice because the software vendor will stop support for the old product to force the business to buy the new product.

I think it is critical that we as customers let Freedom Scientific know what products we need to be made accessible, otherwise they can only guess. This isn't their fault. By definition, they work for a small software company, so the jobs they see and experience are in that environment, and their priorities are established from that vantage point. If your a blind lawyer and you cannot get or keep a job at a mega law firm because the new law firm billing software is not accessible, this is something FS won't experience and won't know about. Likewise, if you're a financial advisor and you cannot get or keep a job at a Wall Street firm or mega bank, FS will not know what job critical software must be made accessible unless they are told. These are examples of the places where jobs are located, and we cannot get and keep those jobs if we are unable to use the software on which the jobs are based. Last time I checked into this, most of the corporate networks for these large firms are still running Windows XP, very old versions of MS Office, and the inaccessible applications they are running are not Microsoft products. I would be curious to know how much money and effort FS has spent on IE 11 accessibility as opposed to Google Chrome.

Just my 2 cents worth, but accounting for inflation may be worth 4 cents, though probably not quite that much.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Levy via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Cc: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@verizon.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites



Which explains why Eric Damery still advises JAWS users to avoid Chrome.
As far as he is concerned, Chrome is still not ready yet for prime time.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: Adrian Spratt via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 10:51 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Adrian Spratt
Subject: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites

Hi.

I can't get favorites, which Chrome calls bookmarks, to work as quickly as
they do in IE. Here's what I've figured out so far. I hope the gaps can be
filled in.

You get to bookmarks by pressing alt for the menu, then arrowing down.
Press enter on bookmarks. Here, I'm told that the shortcut control-shift-b
brings up bookmarks, but that shortcut isn't working on my system when I'm
outside this menu. Each time I have to go through the menu.

In IE, I press alt-a to bring up my favorites list, and first-letter
navigation works. I can't find anything this simple using Chrome.

One item in the bookmarks submenu allows you to import favorites settings.
I clicked on this, tabbed through the options, and was told at the end
that I was successful. However, nothing seems to have been imported.

Any ideas?
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Re: Chrome and Twitter

David Moore
 

Hi there,
Are you trying to get to Twitter's web site? If you are, just press ctrl + L and type www.twitter.com
It should go to the Twitter web site just like any other site. I just tried it and it did. However, the Twitter main web site is very difficult to use. You should try this web site:
www.easychirp.com
That is an accessible web site that links into your twitter account, but it is much easier to navigate and to use than the main Twitter site. Even better, is to use a client like Chicken Nugget to work with your Twitter account, because you can send and receive tweets, reply to tweets, and all you want to do right in a desk top program instead of being on the web at all. Take care.

-----Original Message-----
From: Andre Jarreau via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2015 4:13 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Andre Jarreau
Subject: Chrome and Twitter

I may be doing something wrong. At the Google home page in Chrome I want to
go to Twitter.com and can't seem to get there. Tried keystrokes common in
IE but didn't work in Chrome.



Does anyone know the keystroke commands to get to Twitter? Thanks


Re: Chrome vs firefox

David Moore
 

Hi all.
There is a very little learning curve with using Google Chrome. You have all settings and all you need in just one vertical column called the Chrome menu. Settings are displayed in a web page environment just like more and more of Firefox is displayed that way. After getting use to it, the web page lay out is better to navigate. All of the same navigation key commands work in Chrome as in IE or Firefox. It is very fast and is great for streaming video like Net Flicks and the like. It never Crashes. I really hope you like it for what it can do. Take care.

-----Original Message-----
From: Marianne Denning via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2015 5:42 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Marianne Denning
Subject: Re: Chrome vs firefox

I have used Firefox and IE for several years. I go back and forth
because some websites are better with one and some with the other.
Now that I hear Crome is accessible I plan to give it a try. I have
been using Google Drive and like it.

On 11/7/15, Drew Hunthausen via Jfw <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> wrote:
Dear list,

I'm a life time user of IE and due to the way many of the aspects of my job
and related software works have been advised to switch to Chrome or
Firefox.
What is the learning curve in switching from IE, and is there anything else
I should be aware of. I haven't upgraded yet, but I do have Jaws 17. Thanks
so much

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--
Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
(513) 607-6053

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Re: I still ask about security is it better with crome?

David Moore
 

Hi there,
I am glad you asked this question. As everyone knows, I hope everyone knows, IE has the worst security features that have ever been in any browser. Firefox does have excellent security features. Google Chrome is almost caught up to Firefox, and a new version is coming out soon that will have better security than Firefox. So, along with the many features that are in Chrome, it is very secure. Take care.

-----Original Message-----
From: david via Jfw
Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2015 6:51 PM
To: jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Cc: david
Subject: I still ask about security is it better with crome?

Hi list members, I'm not sure if my messages are getting to this list but
I'd like to ask about security is there a difference in security features
with crome than with internet explorer? I know that Firefox to me has the
most security as it relates to not being tracked but I'm not sure about the
other things besides privacy settings. I'd like to hear from some other
people to see whether I'm right or not. Thank you for any information that
you might have concerning this topic.

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