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Re: Which Firefox and Crome versions with JAWS 12. Brad Martin #31583 I can't address JAWS 12 with anything. But JAWS 15 works fine with IE 10--probably even marginally better than with IE 11. As for the "edit field" issue, I don't have one, and never have. Brad Martin toggle quoted messageShow quoted text On 7/21/2015 9:12 PM, Tusing via Jfw wrote: Hi and thanks in advance. How well does JAWS 12 work with Firefox version 39, and With Crome version 43? Also has any one successfully used JAWS 15 with I E 10? Has the editfield issue with JAWS 15 on web pages been solved? Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/20150721/ff91f684/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com -- Brad Martin brad@formyfriends.org <mailto:brad@formyfriends.org> My Facebook page where I post online shopping coupons and deals: facebook.com/ucoupons <http://www.facebook.com/ucoupons> My SmarterBucks signup link <http://bit.ly/1w5FCPu> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/20150721/67c3530e/attachment.html>
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Re: Which Firefox and Crome versions with JAWS 12. Michal Nowicki <mnowicki4@...> #31582 Since Crome is a modern browser, I don't know if JAWS 12 works with any version. However, even if it does, the support is probably very basic. toggle quoted messageShow quoted text -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Tusing via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 9:13 PM To: jfw@lists.the-jdh.com Cc: Tusing <ptusing@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Which Firefox and Crome versions with JAWS 12. Hi and thanks in advance. How well does JAWS 12 work with Firefox version 39, and With Crome version 43? Also has any one successfully used JAWS 15 with I E 10? Has the editfield issue with JAWS 15 on web pages been solved? Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/201507 21/ff91f684/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: PDF documents Greg Nickel #31581 Very interesting...Thanks again. Greg toggle quoted messageShow quoted text -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Arnold via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 5:25 PM To: Greg Nickel via Jfw Cc: Carolyn Arnold Subject: Re: PDF documents You are welcome. I intended for that to go off list; hope this does. I forgot to tell you that you lay your forefinger in the stimulator array and use your right hand to maneuver the camera. There are two adjusting knobs just above the stimulator array, the lower to adjust the thickness or thinness of the material and the upper one to adjust the intensity of the vibrations. In the back of it, there is a switch to reverse background and image. Remember, life is what you make it, Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Nickel via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Greg Nickel" <greg.nickel.works@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 6:29 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Thanks Carolyn. I'll check it out. -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Arnold via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 3:17 PM To: Greg Nickel via Jfw Cc: Carolyn Arnold Subject: Re: PDF documents Greg, Optacon stands for optical to tacticle converter. I use the Optacon R1D. It is an electronic device which is about the size of a text book. In back of the machine is either a charger cord or just an electrical cord, if you have one without batteries. The machine is encased in a leather case that snaps open and shut. In front of it, there is a cable on it that feels sort of like a heavy duty headset cable. At the end of this approximately 18 inch long cable is a camera that is about the size of a pocket knife. There is a little knob at the top of the camera, so that the user can adjust it to accommodate print size. Inside the main body of the Optacon toward the right side, as the device faces you, there is a sort of metallic area that is about maybe an inch across by two inches in length. This is called the stimulator array, and it contains 144 pins in six rows of 24pens. These pins vibrate, as the shutter photographs the character where the camera is place. So the user has a vibrating image of a printed letter, line, as in a 9 x 12 room. In such a situation, different maneuvering of the camera is required rather than reading across a straight line of printed material. The device is a life saver for reading items like utility bills, getting slip in window envelope correctly, checking to see if a pen writes, then checking signature, checking to see the number on a check, and I could go on and on. The Optacon is 70's technology. There is an Optacon Users' group: optacon-l@freelists.org It is a good idea to place maybe a telephone book across a page that maybe you printed from the computer, so that you would be familiar with the material to start to learn to read. If you don't know the print alphabet, you could type it on the computer, one line in caps and one not in caps, as well as a line with numbers and then punctuations, followed by writing what the punctuation mark represents. If you know print, of course, that will make it easier. It takes some practice, which can be taxing to build the skill needed to use the Optacon, but it is well worth the energy investment. I will also give you information to where you can look into buying one, and the man will answer any questions. He is very well thought of by Optacon users. His name is Richard Oehm. oehmelec@samobile.net Richard Oehm Oehm Electronics 2194C Galveston Avenue San Jose, California 95122-3617 Telephone: (408) 971-6250 Fax: (408) 271-9188 Feel free to contact me further in this regard, and I would encourage you to join the Optacon Users' list, which, by the way, has been very quiet lately. Perhaps you could scan some of the archives. Remember, life is what you make it, Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Nickel via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Greg Nickel" <greg.nickel.works@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 4:45 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Hi Carolyn Can you tell me more about the Opticon and how it works for you? Happy to chat off forum at greg.nickel.works@gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Arnold via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 1:14 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Carolyn Arnold Subject: Re: PDF documents With an Optacon, I can read floor plans. Remember, life is what you make it, Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Nickel via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Greg Nickel" <greg.nickel.works@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 3:24 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Can you tell me if JAWS 16converts the pictures into text boxes on the Word doc? On the idea of conveying a picture other than visually, I could see a tactile display coming in handy is for technical drawings like architectural or otherwise that are line based drawings. I do a lot of work with architectural and for now I have someone draw over the lines with a vinyl tactile marking tube. Any other ideas that might be better? -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:18 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents When you come down to it, how do you read a picture anyway? Sure, you can extract text, but how do you read, for example, a photograph? Place a center fold on a scanner, and a male synth will emit a deep heart-felt sigh! All kidding aside, how could a screen reader convey meaningful information. I suppose a tactile display might be able to do it two-dimensionally. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:19 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents I'm told the resulting Word doc is an exact replica of the original PDF including graphics and images, photos etc. However only the text of the document is visible to screenreaders. Wish graphics and images were readable by Jaws but they are not. I've heard there is soon to be released a device called something like BumpPad It's said to be a tactile I-Pad type device made for blind people. I don't know who makes it or when it will be released. It was described as being able to read graphs and possibly images. Don't know any more than that. I will for sure be looking for it when it hits the market. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Greg Nickel via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:31 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Greg Nickel Subject: RE: PDF documents How does 16 do with the conversion of graphics or pictures in a pdf? I have been holding back from updating to 16 to let the bugs get worked out but converting pdf's to word docs is a fairly useful tool especially if it does it as accurately as you say. because -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:20 AM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Yeah, using Win7 and J16 latest build. The pDF copied and pasted into Word2010 readily. It is now a Word doc and reads as though it were written in Word2010. Truly I['m a little blown away for the quality. Perhaps this one conversion was a fluke. For now I'm hopeful. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:14 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents No, I remember there were paragraph marks after every line. Of course, that was years ago, prior to AR 3.0. As for the image problem, that can be a bear, depending upon the quality you have to work with. I have an old Kenwood product manual that still looks strange, but is now useable, thanks to 16. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 4:57 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Ted, I'm not sure what you mean by it not being the most attractive document around. The PDF Copied and pasted into Word is surprisingly clean and reads with no errors. Or are you talking about an image being converted into text. That is often a mess as you say. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 12:30 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents Andre's way is an oldie but a goody. I used it back before AR was accessible; but Bill is right, it won't do a thing for an image file. Even when it works, it's not the most attractive document around. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Bill White via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 10:31 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Bill White Subject: Re: PDF documents That's not going to work in this case, because all she is getting in the document are graphics. She may need to convert the document with OCR software such as OpenBook. she can also use the services of RoboBraille if she can upload the document. I'll include the link for her here. http://robobraille.org/ Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Jarreau via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Andre Jarreau" <andre.jarreau@earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:25 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Another possible way. I did this yesterday. Opened a 245 page PDF. Then I selected all using control-A. Then copied and pasted directly into a blank Word doc. Then saved the Word Doc under the book title name. Now it opens in Word remarkably fast and reads very well. It might be searchable. Hope this helps. I use latest J16, Office and Word 2010 on my I5 Dell laptop. Best -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:57 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Ann Byrne Subject: Re: PDF documents If you have JAWS 16, have it convert the document for you. Press insert-spacebar, then the letter o for optical character recognition, then d for document, and let it run. When JAWS has finished, the document is not only readable, but it can be copied and saved into another form, such as Word or text. good luck! At 08:30 PM 7/15/2015, you wrote: My office has a program that is supposed to convert pdf documents to searchable text. The issue is that my sighted colleague said that she could do a search of this one large document and find different words in it. However JAWS just read "graphic" Graphic" and gave me some numbers of the graphics. I'm wondering what is happening here, does anyone have any ideas? Thanks! Bar _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Which Firefox and Crome versions with JAWS 12. Tusing <ptusing@...> #31580 Hi and thanks in advance. How well does JAWS 12 work with Firefox version 39, and With Crome version 43? Also has any one successfully used JAWS 15 with I E 10? Has the editfield issue with JAWS 15 on web pages been solved? Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/20150721/ff91f684/attachment.html>
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Re: PDF documents -last one on this, sorry, obviously Insert Shift R didn't work although it said it did. Carolyn Arnold <4carolyna@...> #31579 Best to you from, Carolyn toggle quoted messageShow quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Arnold via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "Greg Nickel via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@windstream.net> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 8:25 PM Subject: Re: PDF documents You are welcome. I intended for that to go off list; hope this does. I forgot to tell you that you lay your forefinger in the stimulator array and use your right hand to maneuver the camera. There are two adjusting knobs just above the stimulator array, the lower to adjust the thickness or thinness of the material and the upper one to adjust the intensity of the vibrations. In the back of it, there is a switch to reverse background and image. Remember, life is what you make it, Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Nickel via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Greg Nickel" <greg.nickel.works@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 6:29 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Thanks Carolyn. I'll check it out. -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Arnold via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 3:17 PM To: Greg Nickel via Jfw Cc: Carolyn Arnold Subject: Re: PDF documents Greg, Optacon stands for optical to tacticle converter. I use the Optacon R1D. It is an electronic device which is about the size of a text book. In back of the machine is either a charger cord or just an electrical cord, if you have one without batteries. The machine is encased in a leather case that snaps open and shut. In front of it, there is a cable on it that feels sort of like a heavy duty headset cable. At the end of this approximately 18 inch long cable is a camera that is about the size of a pocket knife. There is a little knob at the top of the camera, so that the user can adjust it to accommodate print size. Inside the main body of the Optacon toward the right side, as the device faces you, there is a sort of metallic area that is about maybe an inch across by two inches in length. This is called the stimulator array, and it contains 144 pins in six rows of 24pens. These pins vibrate, as the shutter photographs the character where the camera is place. So the user has a vibrating image of a printed letter, line, as in a 9 x 12 room. In such a situation, different maneuvering of the camera is required rather than reading across a straight line of printed material. The device is a life saver for reading items like utility bills, getting slip in window envelope correctly, checking to see if a pen writes, then checking signature, checking to see the number on a check, and I could go on and on. The Optacon is 70's technology. There is an Optacon Users' group: optacon-l@freelists.org It is a good idea to place maybe a telephone book across a page that maybe you printed from the computer, so that you would be familiar with the material to start to learn to read. If you don't know the print alphabet, you could type it on the computer, one line in caps and one not in caps, as well as a line with numbers and then punctuations, followed by writing what the punctuation mark represents. If you know print, of course, that will make it easier. It takes some practice, which can be taxing to build the skill needed to use the Optacon, but it is well worth the energy investment. I will also give you information to where you can look into buying one, and the man will answer any questions. He is very well thought of by Optacon users. His name is Richard Oehm. oehmelec@samobile.net Richard Oehm Oehm Electronics 2194C Galveston Avenue San Jose, California 95122-3617 Telephone: (408) 971-6250 Fax: (408) 271-9188 Feel free to contact me further in this regard, and I would encourage you to join the Optacon Users' list, which, by the way, has been very quiet lately. Perhaps you could scan some of the archives. Remember, life is what you make it, Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Nickel via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Greg Nickel" <greg.nickel.works@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 4:45 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Hi Carolyn Can you tell me more about the Opticon and how it works for you? Happy to chat off forum at greg.nickel.works@gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Arnold via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 1:14 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Carolyn Arnold Subject: Re: PDF documents With an Optacon, I can read floor plans. Remember, life is what you make it, Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Nickel via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Greg Nickel" <greg.nickel.works@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 3:24 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Can you tell me if JAWS 16converts the pictures into text boxes on the Word doc? On the idea of conveying a picture other than visually, I could see a tactile display coming in handy is for technical drawings like architectural or otherwise that are line based drawings. I do a lot of work with architectural and for now I have someone draw over the lines with a vinyl tactile marking tube. Any other ideas that might be better? -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:18 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents When you come down to it, how do you read a picture anyway? Sure, you can extract text, but how do you read, for example, a photograph? Place a center fold on a scanner, and a male synth will emit a deep heart-felt sigh! All kidding aside, how could a screen reader convey meaningful information. I suppose a tactile display might be able to do it two-dimensionally. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:19 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents I'm told the resulting Word doc is an exact replica of the original PDF including graphics and images, photos etc. However only the text of the document is visible to screenreaders. Wish graphics and images were readable by Jaws but they are not. I've heard there is soon to be released a device called something like BumpPad It's said to be a tactile I-Pad type device made for blind people. I don't know who makes it or when it will be released. It was described as being able to read graphs and possibly images. Don't know any more than that. I will for sure be looking for it when it hits the market. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Greg Nickel via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:31 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Greg Nickel Subject: RE: PDF documents How does 16 do with the conversion of graphics or pictures in a pdf? I have been holding back from updating to 16 to let the bugs get worked out but converting pdf's to word docs is a fairly useful tool especially if it does it as accurately as you say. because -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:20 AM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Yeah, using Win7 and J16 latest build. The pDF copied and pasted into Word2010 readily. It is now a Word doc and reads as though it were written in Word2010. Truly I['m a little blown away for the quality. Perhaps this one conversion was a fluke. For now I'm hopeful. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:14 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents No, I remember there were paragraph marks after every line. Of course, that was years ago, prior to AR 3.0. As for the image problem, that can be a bear, depending upon the quality you have to work with. I have an old Kenwood product manual that still looks strange, but is now useable, thanks to 16. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 4:57 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Ted, I'm not sure what you mean by it not being the most attractive document around. The PDF Copied and pasted into Word is surprisingly clean and reads with no errors. Or are you talking about an image being converted into text. That is often a mess as you say. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 12:30 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents Andre's way is an oldie but a goody. I used it back before AR was accessible; but Bill is right, it won't do a thing for an image file. Even when it works, it's not the most attractive document around. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Bill White via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 10:31 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Bill White Subject: Re: PDF documents That's not going to work in this case, because all she is getting in the document are graphics. She may need to convert the document with OCR software such as OpenBook. she can also use the services of RoboBraille if she can upload the document. I'll include the link for her here. http://robobraille.org/ Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Jarreau via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Andre Jarreau" <andre.jarreau@earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:25 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Another possible way. I did this yesterday. Opened a 245 page PDF. Then I selected all using control-A. Then copied and pasted directly into a blank Word doc. Then saved the Word Doc under the book title name. Now it opens in Word remarkably fast and reads very well. It might be searchable. Hope this helps. I use latest J16, Office and Word 2010 on my I5 Dell laptop. Best -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:57 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Ann Byrne Subject: Re: PDF documents If you have JAWS 16, have it convert the document for you. Press insert-spacebar, then the letter o for optical character recognition, then d for document, and let it run. When JAWS has finished, the document is not only readable, but it can be copied and saved into another form, such as Word or text. good luck! At 08:30 PM 7/15/2015, you wrote: My office has a program that is supposed to convert pdf documents to searchable text. The issue is that my sighted colleague said that she could do a search of this one large document and find different words in it. However JAWS just read "graphic" Graphic" and gave me some numbers of the graphics. I'm wondering what is happening here, does anyone have any ideas? Thanks! Bar _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: PDF documents Carolyn Arnold <4carolyna@...> #31578 You are welcome. I intended for that to go off list; hope this does. I forgot to tell you that you lay your forefinger in the stimulator array and use your right hand to maneuver the camera. There are two adjusting knobs just above the stimulator array, the lower to adjust the thickness or thinness of the material and the upper one to adjust the intensity of the vibrations. In the back of it, there is a switch to reverse background and image. Remember, life is what you make it, Carolyn toggle quoted messageShow quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Nickel via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Greg Nickel" <greg.nickel.works@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 6:29 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Thanks Carolyn. I'll check it out. -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Arnold via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 3:17 PM To: Greg Nickel via Jfw Cc: Carolyn Arnold Subject: Re: PDF documents Greg, Optacon stands for optical to tacticle converter. I use the Optacon R1D. It is an electronic device which is about the size of a text book. In back of the machine is either a charger cord or just an electrical cord, if you have one without batteries. The machine is encased in a leather case that snaps open and shut. In front of it, there is a cable on it that feels sort of like a heavy duty headset cable. At the end of this approximately 18 inch long cable is a camera that is about the size of a pocket knife. There is a little knob at the top of the camera, so that the user can adjust it to accommodate print size. Inside the main body of the Optacon toward the right side, as the device faces you, there is a sort of metallic area that is about maybe an inch across by two inches in length. This is called the stimulator array, and it contains 144 pins in six rows of 24pens. These pins vibrate, as the shutter photographs the character where the camera is place. So the user has a vibrating image of a printed letter, line, as in a 9 x 12 room. In such a situation, different maneuvering of the camera is required rather than reading across a straight line of printed material. The device is a life saver for reading items like utility bills, getting slip in window envelope correctly, checking to see if a pen writes, then checking signature, checking to see the number on a check, and I could go on and on. The Optacon is 70's technology. There is an Optacon Users' group: optacon-l@freelists.org It is a good idea to place maybe a telephone book across a page that maybe you printed from the computer, so that you would be familiar with the material to start to learn to read. If you don't know the print alphabet, you could type it on the computer, one line in caps and one not in caps, as well as a line with numbers and then punctuations, followed by writing what the punctuation mark represents. If you know print, of course, that will make it easier. It takes some practice, which can be taxing to build the skill needed to use the Optacon, but it is well worth the energy investment. I will also give you information to where you can look into buying one, and the man will answer any questions. He is very well thought of by Optacon users. His name is Richard Oehm. oehmelec@samobile.net Richard Oehm Oehm Electronics 2194C Galveston Avenue San Jose, California 95122-3617 Telephone: (408) 971-6250 Fax: (408) 271-9188 Feel free to contact me further in this regard, and I would encourage you to join the Optacon Users' list, which, by the way, has been very quiet lately. Perhaps you could scan some of the archives. Remember, life is what you make it, Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Nickel via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Greg Nickel" <greg.nickel.works@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 4:45 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Hi Carolyn Can you tell me more about the Opticon and how it works for you? Happy to chat off forum at greg.nickel.works@gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Arnold via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 1:14 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Carolyn Arnold Subject: Re: PDF documents With an Optacon, I can read floor plans. Remember, life is what you make it, Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Nickel via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Greg Nickel" <greg.nickel.works@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 3:24 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Can you tell me if JAWS 16converts the pictures into text boxes on the Word doc? On the idea of conveying a picture other than visually, I could see a tactile display coming in handy is for technical drawings like architectural or otherwise that are line based drawings. I do a lot of work with architectural and for now I have someone draw over the lines with a vinyl tactile marking tube. Any other ideas that might be better? -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:18 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents When you come down to it, how do you read a picture anyway? Sure, you can extract text, but how do you read, for example, a photograph? Place a center fold on a scanner, and a male synth will emit a deep heart-felt sigh! All kidding aside, how could a screen reader convey meaningful information. I suppose a tactile display might be able to do it two-dimensionally. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:19 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents I'm told the resulting Word doc is an exact replica of the original PDF including graphics and images, photos etc. However only the text of the document is visible to screenreaders. Wish graphics and images were readable by Jaws but they are not. I've heard there is soon to be released a device called something like BumpPad It's said to be a tactile I-Pad type device made for blind people. I don't know who makes it or when it will be released. It was described as being able to read graphs and possibly images. Don't know any more than that. I will for sure be looking for it when it hits the market. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Greg Nickel via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:31 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Greg Nickel Subject: RE: PDF documents How does 16 do with the conversion of graphics or pictures in a pdf? I have been holding back from updating to 16 to let the bugs get worked out but converting pdf's to word docs is a fairly useful tool especially if it does it as accurately as you say. because -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:20 AM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Yeah, using Win7 and J16 latest build. The pDF copied and pasted into Word2010 readily. It is now a Word doc and reads as though it were written in Word2010. Truly I['m a little blown away for the quality. Perhaps this one conversion was a fluke. For now I'm hopeful. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:14 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents No, I remember there were paragraph marks after every line. Of course, that was years ago, prior to AR 3.0. As for the image problem, that can be a bear, depending upon the quality you have to work with. I have an old Kenwood product manual that still looks strange, but is now useable, thanks to 16. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 4:57 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Ted, I'm not sure what you mean by it not being the most attractive document around. The PDF Copied and pasted into Word is surprisingly clean and reads with no errors. Or are you talking about an image being converted into text. That is often a mess as you say. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 12:30 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents Andre's way is an oldie but a goody. I used it back before AR was accessible; but Bill is right, it won't do a thing for an image file. Even when it works, it's not the most attractive document around. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Bill White via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 10:31 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Bill White Subject: Re: PDF documents That's not going to work in this case, because all she is getting in the document are graphics. She may need to convert the document with OCR software such as OpenBook. she can also use the services of RoboBraille if she can upload the document. I'll include the link for her here. http://robobraille.org/ Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Jarreau via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Andre Jarreau" <andre.jarreau@earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:25 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Another possible way. I did this yesterday. Opened a 245 page PDF. Then I selected all using control-A. Then copied and pasted directly into a blank Word doc. Then saved the Word Doc under the book title name. Now it opens in Word remarkably fast and reads very well. It might be searchable. Hope this helps. I use latest J16, Office and Word 2010 on my I5 Dell laptop. Best -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:57 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Ann Byrne Subject: Re: PDF documents If you have JAWS 16, have it convert the document for you. Press insert-spacebar, then the letter o for optical character recognition, then d for document, and let it run. When JAWS has finished, the document is not only readable, but it can be copied and saved into another form, such as Word or text. good luck! At 08:30 PM 7/15/2015, you wrote: My office has a program that is supposed to convert pdf documents to searchable text. The issue is that my sighted colleague said that she could do a search of this one large document and find different words in it. However JAWS just read "graphic" Graphic" and gave me some numbers of the graphics. I'm wondering what is happening here, does anyone have any ideas? Thanks! Bar _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: PDF documents - sincere apologies - hit Insert Shift R; guess it does not always work. Carolyn Arnold <4carolyna@...> #31577 Remember, life is what you make it, Carolyn toggle quoted messageShow quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Arnold via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "Greg Nickel via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Carolyn Arnold" <4carolyna@windstream.net> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 6:17 PM Subject: Re: PDF documents Greg, Optacon stands for optical to tacticle converter. I use the Optacon R1D. It is an electronic device which is about the size of a text book. In back of the machine is either a charger cord or just an electrical cord, if you have one without batteries. The machine is encased in a leather case that snaps open and shut. In front of it, there is a cable on it that feels sort of like a heavy duty headset cable. At the end of this approximately 18 inch long cable is a camera that is about the size of a pocket knife. There is a little knob at the top of the camera, so that the user can adjust it to accommodate print size. Inside the main body of the Optacon toward the right side, as the device faces you, there is a sort of metallic area that is about maybe an inch across by two inches in length. This is called the stimulator array, and it contains 144 pins in six rows of 24pens. These pins vibrate, as the shutter photographs the character where the camera is place. So the user has a vibrating image of a printed letter, line, as in a 9 x 12 room. In such a situation, different maneuvering of the camera is required rather than reading across a straight line of printed material. The device is a life saver for reading items like utility bills, getting slip in window envelope correctly, checking to see if a pen writes, then checking signature, checking to see the number on a check, and I could go on and on. The Optacon is 70's technology. There is an Optacon Users' group: optacon-l@freelists.org It is a good idea to place maybe a telephone book across a page that maybe you printed from the computer, so that you would be familiar with the material to start to learn to read. If you don't know the print alphabet, you could type it on the computer, one line in caps and one not in caps, as well as a line with numbers and then punctuations, followed by writing what the punctuation mark represents. If you know print, of course, that will make it easier. It takes some practice, which can be taxing to build the skill needed to use the Optacon, but it is well worth the energy investment. I will also give you information to where you can look into buying one, and the man will answer any questions. He is very well thought of by Optacon users. His name is Richard Oehm. oehmelec@samobile.net Richard Oehm Oehm Electronics 2194C Galveston Avenue San Jose, California 95122-3617 Telephone: (408) 971-6250 Fax: (408) 271-9188 Feel free to contact me further in this regard, and I would encourage you to join the Optacon Users' list, which, by the way, has been very quiet lately. Perhaps you could scan some of the archives. Remember, life is what you make it, Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Nickel via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Greg Nickel" <greg.nickel.works@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 4:45 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Hi Carolyn Can you tell me more about the Opticon and how it works for you? Happy to chat off forum at greg.nickel.works@gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Arnold via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 1:14 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Carolyn Arnold Subject: Re: PDF documents With an Optacon, I can read floor plans. Remember, life is what you make it, Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Nickel via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Greg Nickel" <greg.nickel.works@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 3:24 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Can you tell me if JAWS 16converts the pictures into text boxes on the Word doc? On the idea of conveying a picture other than visually, I could see a tactile display coming in handy is for technical drawings like architectural or otherwise that are line based drawings. I do a lot of work with architectural and for now I have someone draw over the lines with a vinyl tactile marking tube. Any other ideas that might be better? -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:18 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents When you come down to it, how do you read a picture anyway? Sure, you can extract text, but how do you read, for example, a photograph? Place a center fold on a scanner, and a male synth will emit a deep heart-felt sigh! All kidding aside, how could a screen reader convey meaningful information. I suppose a tactile display might be able to do it two-dimensionally. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:19 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents I'm told the resulting Word doc is an exact replica of the original PDF including graphics and images, photos etc. However only the text of the document is visible to screenreaders. Wish graphics and images were readable by Jaws but they are not. I've heard there is soon to be released a device called something like BumpPad It's said to be a tactile I-Pad type device made for blind people. I don't know who makes it or when it will be released. It was described as being able to read graphs and possibly images. Don't know any more than that. I will for sure be looking for it when it hits the market. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Greg Nickel via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:31 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Greg Nickel Subject: RE: PDF documents How does 16 do with the conversion of graphics or pictures in a pdf? I have been holding back from updating to 16 to let the bugs get worked out but converting pdf's to word docs is a fairly useful tool especially if it does it as accurately as you say. because -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:20 AM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Yeah, using Win7 and J16 latest build. The pDF copied and pasted into Word2010 readily. It is now a Word doc and reads as though it were written in Word2010. Truly I['m a little blown away for the quality. Perhaps this one conversion was a fluke. For now I'm hopeful. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:14 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents No, I remember there were paragraph marks after every line. Of course, that was years ago, prior to AR 3.0. As for the image problem, that can be a bear, depending upon the quality you have to work with. I have an old Kenwood product manual that still looks strange, but is now useable, thanks to 16. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 4:57 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Ted, I'm not sure what you mean by it not being the most attractive document around. The PDF Copied and pasted into Word is surprisingly clean and reads with no errors. Or are you talking about an image being converted into text. That is often a mess as you say. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 12:30 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents Andre's way is an oldie but a goody. I used it back before AR was accessible; but Bill is right, it won't do a thing for an image file. Even when it works, it's not the most attractive document around. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Bill White via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 10:31 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Bill White Subject: Re: PDF documents That's not going to work in this case, because all she is getting in the document are graphics. She may need to convert the document with OCR software such as OpenBook. she can also use the services of RoboBraille if she can upload the document. I'll include the link for her here. http://robobraille.org/ Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Jarreau via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Andre Jarreau" <andre.jarreau@earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:25 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Another possible way. I did this yesterday. Opened a 245 page PDF. Then I selected all using control-A. Then copied and pasted directly into a blank Word doc. Then saved the Word Doc under the book title name. Now it opens in Word remarkably fast and reads very well. It might be searchable. Hope this helps. I use latest J16, Office and Word 2010 on my I5 Dell laptop. Best -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:57 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Ann Byrne Subject: Re: PDF documents If you have JAWS 16, have it convert the document for you. Press insert-spacebar, then the letter o for optical character recognition, then d for document, and let it run. When JAWS has finished, the document is not only readable, but it can be copied and saved into another form, such as Word or text. good luck! At 08:30 PM 7/15/2015, you wrote: My office has a program that is supposed to convert pdf documents to searchable text. The issue is that my sighted colleague said that she could do a search of this one large document and find different words in it. However JAWS just read "graphic" Graphic" and gave me some numbers of the graphics. I'm wondering what is happening here, does anyone have any ideas? Thanks! Bar _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: PDF documents Greg Nickel #31576 Thanks Carolyn. I'll check it out. toggle quoted messageShow quoted text -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Arnold via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 3:17 PM To: Greg Nickel via Jfw Cc: Carolyn Arnold Subject: Re: PDF documents Greg, Optacon stands for optical to tacticle converter. I use the Optacon R1D. It is an electronic device which is about the size of a text book. In back of the machine is either a charger cord or just an electrical cord, if you have one without batteries. The machine is encased in a leather case that snaps open and shut. In front of it, there is a cable on it that feels sort of like a heavy duty headset cable. At the end of this approximately 18 inch long cable is a camera that is about the size of a pocket knife. There is a little knob at the top of the camera, so that the user can adjust it to accommodate print size. Inside the main body of the Optacon toward the right side, as the device faces you, there is a sort of metallic area that is about maybe an inch across by two inches in length. This is called the stimulator array, and it contains 144 pins in six rows of 24pens. These pins vibrate, as the shutter photographs the character where the camera is place. So the user has a vibrating image of a printed letter, line, as in a 9 x 12 room. In such a situation, different maneuvering of the camera is required rather than reading across a straight line of printed material. The device is a life saver for reading items like utility bills, getting slip in window envelope correctly, checking to see if a pen writes, then checking signature, checking to see the number on a check, and I could go on and on. The Optacon is 70's technology. There is an Optacon Users' group: optacon-l@freelists.org It is a good idea to place maybe a telephone book across a page that maybe you printed from the computer, so that you would be familiar with the material to start to learn to read. If you don't know the print alphabet, you could type it on the computer, one line in caps and one not in caps, as well as a line with numbers and then punctuations, followed by writing what the punctuation mark represents. If you know print, of course, that will make it easier. It takes some practice, which can be taxing to build the skill needed to use the Optacon, but it is well worth the energy investment. I will also give you information to where you can look into buying one, and the man will answer any questions. He is very well thought of by Optacon users. His name is Richard Oehm. oehmelec@samobile.net Richard Oehm Oehm Electronics 2194C Galveston Avenue San Jose, California 95122-3617 Telephone: (408) 971-6250 Fax: (408) 271-9188 Feel free to contact me further in this regard, and I would encourage you to join the Optacon Users' list, which, by the way, has been very quiet lately. Perhaps you could scan some of the archives. Remember, life is what you make it, Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Nickel via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Greg Nickel" <greg.nickel.works@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 4:45 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Hi Carolyn Can you tell me more about the Opticon and how it works for you? Happy to chat off forum at greg.nickel.works@gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Arnold via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 1:14 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Carolyn Arnold Subject: Re: PDF documents With an Optacon, I can read floor plans. Remember, life is what you make it, Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Nickel via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Greg Nickel" <greg.nickel.works@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 3:24 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Can you tell me if JAWS 16converts the pictures into text boxes on the Word doc? On the idea of conveying a picture other than visually, I could see a tactile display coming in handy is for technical drawings like architectural or otherwise that are line based drawings. I do a lot of work with architectural and for now I have someone draw over the lines with a vinyl tactile marking tube. Any other ideas that might be better? -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:18 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents When you come down to it, how do you read a picture anyway? Sure, you can extract text, but how do you read, for example, a photograph? Place a center fold on a scanner, and a male synth will emit a deep heart-felt sigh! All kidding aside, how could a screen reader convey meaningful information. I suppose a tactile display might be able to do it two-dimensionally. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:19 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents I'm told the resulting Word doc is an exact replica of the original PDF including graphics and images, photos etc. However only the text of the document is visible to screenreaders. Wish graphics and images were readable by Jaws but they are not. I've heard there is soon to be released a device called something like BumpPad It's said to be a tactile I-Pad type device made for blind people. I don't know who makes it or when it will be released. It was described as being able to read graphs and possibly images. Don't know any more than that. I will for sure be looking for it when it hits the market. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Greg Nickel via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:31 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Greg Nickel Subject: RE: PDF documents How does 16 do with the conversion of graphics or pictures in a pdf? I have been holding back from updating to 16 to let the bugs get worked out but converting pdf's to word docs is a fairly useful tool especially if it does it as accurately as you say. because -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:20 AM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Yeah, using Win7 and J16 latest build. The pDF copied and pasted into Word2010 readily. It is now a Word doc and reads as though it were written in Word2010. Truly I['m a little blown away for the quality. Perhaps this one conversion was a fluke. For now I'm hopeful. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:14 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents No, I remember there were paragraph marks after every line. Of course, that was years ago, prior to AR 3.0. As for the image problem, that can be a bear, depending upon the quality you have to work with. I have an old Kenwood product manual that still looks strange, but is now useable, thanks to 16. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 4:57 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Ted, I'm not sure what you mean by it not being the most attractive document around. The PDF Copied and pasted into Word is surprisingly clean and reads with no errors. Or are you talking about an image being converted into text. That is often a mess as you say. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 12:30 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents Andre's way is an oldie but a goody. I used it back before AR was accessible; but Bill is right, it won't do a thing for an image file. Even when it works, it's not the most attractive document around. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Bill White via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 10:31 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Bill White Subject: Re: PDF documents That's not going to work in this case, because all she is getting in the document are graphics. She may need to convert the document with OCR software such as OpenBook. she can also use the services of RoboBraille if she can upload the document. I'll include the link for her here. http://robobraille.org/ Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Jarreau via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Andre Jarreau" <andre.jarreau@earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:25 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Another possible way. I did this yesterday. Opened a 245 page PDF. Then I selected all using control-A. Then copied and pasted directly into a blank Word doc. Then saved the Word Doc under the book title name. Now it opens in Word remarkably fast and reads very well. It might be searchable. Hope this helps. I use latest J16, Office and Word 2010 on my I5 Dell laptop. Best -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:57 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Ann Byrne Subject: Re: PDF documents If you have JAWS 16, have it convert the document for you. Press insert-spacebar, then the letter o for optical character recognition, then d for document, and let it run. When JAWS has finished, the document is not only readable, but it can be copied and saved into another form, such as Word or text. good luck! At 08:30 PM 7/15/2015, you wrote: My office has a program that is supposed to convert pdf documents to searchable text. The issue is that my sighted colleague said that she could do a search of this one large document and find different words in it. However JAWS just read "graphic" Graphic" and gave me some numbers of the graphics. I'm wondering what is happening here, does anyone have any ideas? Thanks! Bar _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: PDF documents Carolyn Arnold <4carolyna@...> #31574 Greg, Optacon stands for optical to tacticle converter. I use the Optacon R1D. It is an electronic device which is about the size of a text book. In back of the machine is either a charger cord or just an electrical cord, if you have one without batteries. The machine is encased in a leather case that snaps open and shut. In front of it, there is a cable on it that feels sort of like a heavy duty headset cable. At the end of this approximately 18 inch long cable is a camera that is about the size of a pocket knife. There is a little knob at the top of the camera, so that the user can adjust it to accommodate print size. Inside the main body of the Optacon toward the right side, as the device faces you, there is a sort of metallic area that is about maybe an inch across by two inches in length. This is called the stimulator array, and it contains 144 pins in six rows of 24pens. These pins vibrate, as the shutter photographs the character where the camera is place. So the user has a vibrating image of a printed letter, line, as in a 9 x 12 room. In such a situation, different maneuvering of the camera is required rather than reading across a straight line of printed material. The device is a life saver for reading items like utility bills, getting slip in window envelope correctly, checking to see if a pen writes, then checking signature, checking to see the number on a check, and I could go on and on. The Optacon is 70's technology. There is an Optacon Users' group: optacon-l@freelists.org It is a good idea to place maybe a telephone book across a page that maybe you printed from the computer, so that you would be familiar with the material to start to learn to read. If you don't know the print alphabet, you could type it on the computer, one line in caps and one not in caps, as well as a line with numbers and then punctuations, followed by writing what the punctuation mark represents. If you know print, of course, that will make it easier. It takes some practice, which can be taxing to build the skill needed to use the Optacon, but it is well worth the energy investment. I will also give you information to where you can look into buying one, and the man will answer any questions. He is very well thought of by Optacon users. His name is Richard Oehm. oehmelec@samobile.net Richard Oehm Oehm Electronics 2194C Galveston Avenue San Jose, California 95122-3617 Telephone: (408) 971-6250 Fax: (408) 271-9188 Feel free to contact me further in this regard, and I would encourage you to join the Optacon Users' list, which, by the way, has been very quiet lately. Perhaps you could scan some of the archives. Remember, life is what you make it, Carolyn toggle quoted messageShow quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Nickel via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Greg Nickel" <greg.nickel.works@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 4:45 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Hi Carolyn Can you tell me more about the Opticon and how it works for you? Happy to chat off forum at greg.nickel.works@gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Arnold via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 1:14 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Carolyn Arnold Subject: Re: PDF documents With an Optacon, I can read floor plans. Remember, life is what you make it, Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Nickel via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Greg Nickel" <greg.nickel.works@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 3:24 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Can you tell me if JAWS 16converts the pictures into text boxes on the Word doc? On the idea of conveying a picture other than visually, I could see a tactile display coming in handy is for technical drawings like architectural or otherwise that are line based drawings. I do a lot of work with architectural and for now I have someone draw over the lines with a vinyl tactile marking tube. Any other ideas that might be better? -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:18 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents When you come down to it, how do you read a picture anyway? Sure, you can extract text, but how do you read, for example, a photograph? Place a center fold on a scanner, and a male synth will emit a deep heart-felt sigh! All kidding aside, how could a screen reader convey meaningful information. I suppose a tactile display might be able to do it two-dimensionally. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:19 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents I'm told the resulting Word doc is an exact replica of the original PDF including graphics and images, photos etc. However only the text of the document is visible to screenreaders. Wish graphics and images were readable by Jaws but they are not. I've heard there is soon to be released a device called something like BumpPad It's said to be a tactile I-Pad type device made for blind people. I don't know who makes it or when it will be released. It was described as being able to read graphs and possibly images. Don't know any more than that. I will for sure be looking for it when it hits the market. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Greg Nickel via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:31 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Greg Nickel Subject: RE: PDF documents How does 16 do with the conversion of graphics or pictures in a pdf? I have been holding back from updating to 16 to let the bugs get worked out but converting pdf's to word docs is a fairly useful tool especially if it does it as accurately as you say. because -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:20 AM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Yeah, using Win7 and J16 latest build. The pDF copied and pasted into Word2010 readily. It is now a Word doc and reads as though it were written in Word2010. Truly I['m a little blown away for the quality. Perhaps this one conversion was a fluke. For now I'm hopeful. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:14 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents No, I remember there were paragraph marks after every line. Of course, that was years ago, prior to AR 3.0. As for the image problem, that can be a bear, depending upon the quality you have to work with. I have an old Kenwood product manual that still looks strange, but is now useable, thanks to 16. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 4:57 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Ted, I'm not sure what you mean by it not being the most attractive document around. The PDF Copied and pasted into Word is surprisingly clean and reads with no errors. Or are you talking about an image being converted into text. That is often a mess as you say. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 12:30 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents Andre's way is an oldie but a goody. I used it back before AR was accessible; but Bill is right, it won't do a thing for an image file. Even when it works, it's not the most attractive document around. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Bill White via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 10:31 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Bill White Subject: Re: PDF documents That's not going to work in this case, because all she is getting in the document are graphics. She may need to convert the document with OCR software such as OpenBook. she can also use the services of RoboBraille if she can upload the document. I'll include the link for her here. http://robobraille.org/ Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Jarreau via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Andre Jarreau" <andre.jarreau@earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:25 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Another possible way. I did this yesterday. Opened a 245 page PDF. Then I selected all using control-A. Then copied and pasted directly into a blank Word doc. Then saved the Word Doc under the book title name. Now it opens in Word remarkably fast and reads very well. It might be searchable. Hope this helps. I use latest J16, Office and Word 2010 on my I5 Dell laptop. Best -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:57 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Ann Byrne Subject: Re: PDF documents If you have JAWS 16, have it convert the document for you. Press insert-spacebar, then the letter o for optical character recognition, then d for document, and let it run. When JAWS has finished, the document is not only readable, but it can be copied and saved into another form, such as Word or text. good luck! At 08:30 PM 7/15/2015, you wrote: My office has a program that is supposed to convert pdf documents to searchable text. The issue is that my sighted colleague said that she could do a search of this one large document and find different words in it. However JAWS just read "graphic" Graphic" and gave me some numbers of the graphics. I'm wondering what is happening here, does anyone have any ideas? Thanks! Bar _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: PDF documents Andre Jarreau <andre.jarreau@...> #31575 Hi Adrian, Thanks for resending NCH's Pixillion Image converter message. I remember it and believe it is in my JFW folder. Was surprised at that time it generated no buzz. I think people like to work through the free stuff before spending. While NCH's Pixillion Image converter is very interesting the thread was about J16 and its ability to deal with graphics and images. Greg wanted to know more about it in consideration of upgrading to the latest 16 build. That's all. Thanks for chiming in and broadening the scope of options out there. Best toggle quoted messageShow quoted text -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 4:32 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Adrian Spratt Subject: RE: PDF documents Andre and others, With regard to images and graphics, last May I posted the following on this list, which generated no interest at the time. Yesterday I came across a program that converts JPG files to PDF that I could then convert to text. The program is NCH's Pixillion Image converter. It's worth explaining how it came to me. I received three JPG files that I needed to access right away. I saved the first to a documents folder, then pressed the applications key and arrowed down through the options. One was simply to "convert," and I clicked on it. Almost immediately, the file was converted to PDF. Then I got a message from NCH offering to sell the non-trial version for what it claimed was a sale price. It was clever of NCH to work with MS to lure a consumer in like this. I don't like NCH's sales practices, but their software is good. So I went through with the purchase, costing about $30 US. I haven't done any more testing. It may be, for example, that Pixillion can convert directly from JPG to text. I'd be interested if other JAWS users have experience with Pixillion or another JPG/image file converter. -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:19 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents I'm told the resulting Word doc is an exact replica of the original PDF including graphics and images, photos etc. However only the text of the document is visible to screenreaders. Wish graphics and images were readable by Jaws but they are not. I've heard there is soon to be released a device called something like BumpPad It's said to be a tactile I-Pad type device made for blind people. I don't know who makes it or when it will be released. It was described as being able to read graphs and possibly images. Don't know any more than that. I will for sure be looking for it when it hits the market. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Greg Nickel via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:31 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Greg Nickel Subject: RE: PDF documents How does 16 do with the conversion of graphics or pictures in a pdf? I have been holding back from updating to 16 to let the bugs get worked out but converting pdf's to word docs is a fairly useful tool especially if it does it as accurately as you say. because -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:20 AM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Yeah, using Win7 and J16 latest build. The pDF copied and pasted into Word2010 readily. It is now a Word doc and reads as though it were written in Word2010. Truly I['m a little blown away for the quality. Perhaps this one conversion was a fluke. For now I'm hopeful. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:14 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents No, I remember there were paragraph marks after every line. Of course, that was years ago, prior to AR 3.0. As for the image problem, that can be a bear, depending upon the quality you have to work with. I have an old Kenwood product manual that still looks strange, but is now useable, thanks to 16. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 4:57 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Ted, I'm not sure what you mean by it not being the most attractive document around. The PDF Copied and pasted into Word is surprisingly clean and reads with no errors. Or are you talking about an image being converted into text. That is often a mess as you say. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 12:30 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents Andre's way is an oldie but a goody. I used it back before AR was accessible; but Bill is right, it won't do a thing for an image file. Even when it works, it's not the most attractive document around. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Bill White via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 10:31 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Bill White Subject: Re: PDF documents That's not going to work in this case, because all she is getting in the document are graphics. She may need to convert the document with OCR software such as OpenBook. she can also use the services of RoboBraille if she can upload the document. I'll include the link for her here. http://robobraille.org/ Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Jarreau via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Andre Jarreau" <andre.jarreau@earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:25 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Another possible way. I did this yesterday. Opened a 245 page PDF. Then I selected all using control-A. Then copied and pasted directly into a blank Word doc. Then saved the Word Doc under the book title name. Now it opens in Word remarkably fast and reads very well. It might be searchable. Hope this helps. I use latest J16, Office and Word 2010 on my I5 Dell laptop. Best -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:57 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Ann Byrne Subject: Re: PDF documents If you have JAWS 16, have it convert the document for you. Press insert-spacebar, then the letter o for optical character recognition, then d for document, and let it run. When JAWS has finished, the document is not only readable, but it can be copied and saved into another form, such as Word or text. good luck! At 08:30 PM 7/15/2015, you wrote: My office has a program that is supposed to convert pdf documents to searchable text. The issue is that my sighted colleague said that she could do a search of this one large document and find different words in it. However JAWS just read "graphic" Graphic" and gave me some numbers of the graphics. I'm wondering what is happening here, does anyone have any ideas? Thanks! Bar _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: PDF documents Adrian Spratt #31573 Andre and others, With regard to images and graphics, last May I posted the following on this list, which generated no interest at the time. Yesterday I came across a program that converts JPG files to PDF that I could then convert to text. The program is NCH's Pixillion Image converter. It's worth explaining how it came to me. I received three JPG files that I needed to access right away. I saved the first to a documents folder, then pressed the applications key and arrowed down through the options. One was simply to "convert," and I clicked on it. Almost immediately, the file was converted to PDF. Then I got a message from NCH offering to sell the non-trial version for what it claimed was a sale price. It was clever of NCH to work with MS to lure a consumer in like this. I don't like NCH's sales practices, but their software is good. So I went through with the purchase, costing about $30 US. I haven't done any more testing. It may be, for example, that Pixillion can convert directly from JPG to text. I'd be interested if other JAWS users have experience with Pixillion or another JPG/image file converter. toggle quoted messageShow quoted text -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:19 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents I'm told the resulting Word doc is an exact replica of the original PDF including graphics and images, photos etc. However only the text of the document is visible to screenreaders. Wish graphics and images were readable by Jaws but they are not. I've heard there is soon to be released a device called something like BumpPad It's said to be a tactile I-Pad type device made for blind people. I don't know who makes it or when it will be released. It was described as being able to read graphs and possibly images. Don't know any more than that. I will for sure be looking for it when it hits the market. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Greg Nickel via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:31 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Greg Nickel Subject: RE: PDF documents How does 16 do with the conversion of graphics or pictures in a pdf? I have been holding back from updating to 16 to let the bugs get worked out but converting pdf's to word docs is a fairly useful tool especially if it does it as accurately as you say. because -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:20 AM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Yeah, using Win7 and J16 latest build. The pDF copied and pasted into Word2010 readily. It is now a Word doc and reads as though it were written in Word2010. Truly I['m a little blown away for the quality. Perhaps this one conversion was a fluke. For now I'm hopeful. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:14 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents No, I remember there were paragraph marks after every line. Of course, that was years ago, prior to AR 3.0. As for the image problem, that can be a bear, depending upon the quality you have to work with. I have an old Kenwood product manual that still looks strange, but is now useable, thanks to 16. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 4:57 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Ted, I'm not sure what you mean by it not being the most attractive document around. The PDF Copied and pasted into Word is surprisingly clean and reads with no errors. Or are you talking about an image being converted into text. That is often a mess as you say. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 12:30 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents Andre's way is an oldie but a goody. I used it back before AR was accessible; but Bill is right, it won't do a thing for an image file. Even when it works, it's not the most attractive document around. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Bill White via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 10:31 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Bill White Subject: Re: PDF documents That's not going to work in this case, because all she is getting in the document are graphics. She may need to convert the document with OCR software such as OpenBook. she can also use the services of RoboBraille if she can upload the document. I'll include the link for her here. http://robobraille.org/ Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Jarreau via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Andre Jarreau" <andre.jarreau@earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:25 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Another possible way. I did this yesterday. Opened a 245 page PDF. Then I selected all using control-A. Then copied and pasted directly into a blank Word doc. Then saved the Word Doc under the book title name. Now it opens in Word remarkably fast and reads very well. It might be searchable. Hope this helps. I use latest J16, Office and Word 2010 on my I5 Dell laptop. Best -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:57 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Ann Byrne Subject: Re: PDF documents If you have JAWS 16, have it convert the document for you. Press insert-spacebar, then the letter o for optical character recognition, then d for document, and let it run. When JAWS has finished, the document is not only readable, but it can be copied and saved into another form, such as Word or text. good luck! At 08:30 PM 7/15/2015, you wrote: My office has a program that is supposed to convert pdf documents to searchable text. The issue is that my sighted colleague said that she could do a search of this one large document and find different words in it. However JAWS just read "graphic" Graphic" and gave me some numbers of the graphics. I'm wondering what is happening here, does anyone have any ideas? Thanks! Bar _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: just got a surface pro and I don't know how to remap the capsock key to insert Jodie Hoger #31572 Thanks everyone. Feeling a bit silly for not working that out. Thanks Jo Sent from my iPhone toggle quoted messageShow quoted text On 21 Jul 2015, at 9:43 pm, Michael Mote via Jfw <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> wrote: You should be able to change the keyboard lay-out to laptop in the basic settings of JAWS. Then, the capslock key should work as the insert key would normally work on the desktop keyboard. -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Jodie Hoger via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 11:04 PM To: jaws <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: Jodie Hoger <jodiehoger@gmail.com> Subject: just got a surface pro and I don't know how to remap the capsock key to insert Hi List, Subject says it really. The surface pro keyboard doesn't have an insert key so I need to know how to remap insert to capslock I think? If this is not the case, please set me straight otherwise some instructions and guidance would be appreciated. Thanks, Jo Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: PDF documents Greg Nickel #31571 Hi Carolyn Can you tell me more about the Opticon and how it works for you? Happy to chat off forum at greg.nickel.works@gmail.com toggle quoted messageShow quoted text -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Arnold via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 1:14 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Carolyn Arnold Subject: Re: PDF documents With an Optacon, I can read floor plans. Remember, life is what you make it, Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Nickel via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Greg Nickel" <greg.nickel.works@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 3:24 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Can you tell me if JAWS 16converts the pictures into text boxes on the Word doc? On the idea of conveying a picture other than visually, I could see a tactile display coming in handy is for technical drawings like architectural or otherwise that are line based drawings. I do a lot of work with architectural and for now I have someone draw over the lines with a vinyl tactile marking tube. Any other ideas that might be better? -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:18 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents When you come down to it, how do you read a picture anyway? Sure, you can extract text, but how do you read, for example, a photograph? Place a center fold on a scanner, and a male synth will emit a deep heart-felt sigh! All kidding aside, how could a screen reader convey meaningful information. I suppose a tactile display might be able to do it two-dimensionally. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:19 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents I'm told the resulting Word doc is an exact replica of the original PDF including graphics and images, photos etc. However only the text of the document is visible to screenreaders. Wish graphics and images were readable by Jaws but they are not. I've heard there is soon to be released a device called something like BumpPad It's said to be a tactile I-Pad type device made for blind people. I don't know who makes it or when it will be released. It was described as being able to read graphs and possibly images. Don't know any more than that. I will for sure be looking for it when it hits the market. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Greg Nickel via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:31 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Greg Nickel Subject: RE: PDF documents How does 16 do with the conversion of graphics or pictures in a pdf? I have been holding back from updating to 16 to let the bugs get worked out but converting pdf's to word docs is a fairly useful tool especially if it does it as accurately as you say. because -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:20 AM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Yeah, using Win7 and J16 latest build. The pDF copied and pasted into Word2010 readily. It is now a Word doc and reads as though it were written in Word2010. Truly I['m a little blown away for the quality. Perhaps this one conversion was a fluke. For now I'm hopeful. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:14 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents No, I remember there were paragraph marks after every line. Of course, that was years ago, prior to AR 3.0. As for the image problem, that can be a bear, depending upon the quality you have to work with. I have an old Kenwood product manual that still looks strange, but is now useable, thanks to 16. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 4:57 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Ted, I'm not sure what you mean by it not being the most attractive document around. The PDF Copied and pasted into Word is surprisingly clean and reads with no errors. Or are you talking about an image being converted into text. That is often a mess as you say. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 12:30 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents Andre's way is an oldie but a goody. I used it back before AR was accessible; but Bill is right, it won't do a thing for an image file. Even when it works, it's not the most attractive document around. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Bill White via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 10:31 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Bill White Subject: Re: PDF documents That's not going to work in this case, because all she is getting in the document are graphics. She may need to convert the document with OCR software such as OpenBook. she can also use the services of RoboBraille if she can upload the document. I'll include the link for her here. http://robobraille.org/ Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Jarreau via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Andre Jarreau" <andre.jarreau@earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:25 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Another possible way. I did this yesterday. Opened a 245 page PDF. Then I selected all using control-A. Then copied and pasted directly into a blank Word doc. Then saved the Word Doc under the book title name. Now it opens in Word remarkably fast and reads very well. It might be searchable. Hope this helps. I use latest J16, Office and Word 2010 on my I5 Dell laptop. Best -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:57 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Ann Byrne Subject: Re: PDF documents If you have JAWS 16, have it convert the document for you. Press insert-spacebar, then the letter o for optical character recognition, then d for document, and let it run. When JAWS has finished, the document is not only readable, but it can be copied and saved into another form, such as Word or text. good luck! At 08:30 PM 7/15/2015, you wrote: My office has a program that is supposed to convert pdf documents to searchable text. The issue is that my sighted colleague said that she could do a search of this one large document and find different words in it. However JAWS just read "graphic" Graphic" and gave me some numbers of the graphics. I'm wondering what is happening here, does anyone have any ideas? Thanks! Bar _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: PDF documents Carolyn Arnold <4carolyna@...> #31569 With an Optacon, I can read floor plans. Remember, life is what you make it, Carolyn toggle quoted messageShow quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Nickel via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Greg Nickel" <greg.nickel.works@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 3:24 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Can you tell me if JAWS 16converts the pictures into text boxes on the Word doc? On the idea of conveying a picture other than visually, I could see a tactile display coming in handy is for technical drawings like architectural or otherwise that are line based drawings. I do a lot of work with architectural and for now I have someone draw over the lines with a vinyl tactile marking tube. Any other ideas that might be better? -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:18 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents When you come down to it, how do you read a picture anyway? Sure, you can extract text, but how do you read, for example, a photograph? Place a center fold on a scanner, and a male synth will emit a deep heart-felt sigh! All kidding aside, how could a screen reader convey meaningful information. I suppose a tactile display might be able to do it two-dimensionally. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:19 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents I'm told the resulting Word doc is an exact replica of the original PDF including graphics and images, photos etc. However only the text of the document is visible to screenreaders. Wish graphics and images were readable by Jaws but they are not. I've heard there is soon to be released a device called something like BumpPad It's said to be a tactile I-Pad type device made for blind people. I don't know who makes it or when it will be released. It was described as being able to read graphs and possibly images. Don't know any more than that. I will for sure be looking for it when it hits the market. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Greg Nickel via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:31 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Greg Nickel Subject: RE: PDF documents How does 16 do with the conversion of graphics or pictures in a pdf? I have been holding back from updating to 16 to let the bugs get worked out but converting pdf's to word docs is a fairly useful tool especially if it does it as accurately as you say. because -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:20 AM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Yeah, using Win7 and J16 latest build. The pDF copied and pasted into Word2010 readily. It is now a Word doc and reads as though it were written in Word2010. Truly I['m a little blown away for the quality. Perhaps this one conversion was a fluke. For now I'm hopeful. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:14 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents No, I remember there were paragraph marks after every line. Of course, that was years ago, prior to AR 3.0. As for the image problem, that can be a bear, depending upon the quality you have to work with. I have an old Kenwood product manual that still looks strange, but is now useable, thanks to 16. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 4:57 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Ted, I'm not sure what you mean by it not being the most attractive document around. The PDF Copied and pasted into Word is surprisingly clean and reads with no errors. Or are you talking about an image being converted into text. That is often a mess as you say. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 12:30 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents Andre's way is an oldie but a goody. I used it back before AR was accessible; but Bill is right, it won't do a thing for an image file. Even when it works, it's not the most attractive document around. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Bill White via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 10:31 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Bill White Subject: Re: PDF documents That's not going to work in this case, because all she is getting in the document are graphics. She may need to convert the document with OCR software such as OpenBook. she can also use the services of RoboBraille if she can upload the document. I'll include the link for her here. http://robobraille.org/ Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Jarreau via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Andre Jarreau" <andre.jarreau@earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:25 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Another possible way. I did this yesterday. Opened a 245 page PDF. Then I selected all using control-A. Then copied and pasted directly into a blank Word doc. Then saved the Word Doc under the book title name. Now it opens in Word remarkably fast and reads very well. It might be searchable. Hope this helps. I use latest J16, Office and Word 2010 on my I5 Dell laptop. Best -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:57 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Ann Byrne Subject: Re: PDF documents If you have JAWS 16, have it convert the document for you. Press insert-spacebar, then the letter o for optical character recognition, then d for document, and let it run. When JAWS has finished, the document is not only readable, but it can be copied and saved into another form, such as Word or text. good luck! At 08:30 PM 7/15/2015, you wrote: My office has a program that is supposed to convert pdf documents to searchable text. The issue is that my sighted colleague said that she could do a search of this one large document and find different words in it. However JAWS just read "graphic" Graphic" and gave me some numbers of the graphics. I'm wondering what is happening here, does anyone have any ideas? Thanks! Bar _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: PDF documents Andre Jarreau <andre.jarreau@...> #31567 Sorry if I wasn't clear. To my knowledge no photograph is OCR readable. I think only text from graphics can be picked up by the OCR feature. toggle quoted messageShow quoted text -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Londa Peterson via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:43 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Londa Peterson Subject: RE: PDF documents If you mean using convenient OCR, I don't think it converts the pictures at all. I've never had anyone look to be sure, but I know I have gotten extraneous text at times that I thought was probably pictures that JAWS tried to OCR. Convenient OCR just puts the text into a virtual viewer. You can then paste it wherever you want. -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Greg Nickel via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 3:24 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Greg Nickel Subject: RE: PDF documents Can you tell me if JAWS 16converts the pictures into text boxes on the Word doc? On the idea of conveying a picture other than visually, I could see a tactile display coming in handy is for technical drawings like architectural or otherwise that are line based drawings. I do a lot of work with architectural and for now I have someone draw over the lines with a vinyl tactile marking tube. Any other ideas that might be better? -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:18 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents When you come down to it, how do you read a picture anyway? Sure, you can extract text, but how do you read, for example, a photograph? Place a center fold on a scanner, and a male synth will emit a deep heart-felt sigh! All kidding aside, how could a screen reader convey meaningful information. I suppose a tactile display might be able to do it two-dimensionally. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:19 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents I'm told the resulting Word doc is an exact replica of the original PDF including graphics and images, photos etc. However only the text of the document is visible to screenreaders. Wish graphics and images were readable by Jaws but they are not. I've heard there is soon to be released a device called something like BumpPad It's said to be a tactile I-Pad type device made for blind people. I don't know who makes it or when it will be released. It was described as being able to read graphs and possibly images. Don't know any more than that. I will for sure be looking for it when it hits the market. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Greg Nickel via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:31 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Greg Nickel Subject: RE: PDF documents How does 16 do with the conversion of graphics or pictures in a pdf? I have been holding back from updating to 16 to let the bugs get worked out but converting pdf's to word docs is a fairly useful tool especially if it does it as accurately as you say. because -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:20 AM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Yeah, using Win7 and J16 latest build. The pDF copied and pasted into Word2010 readily. It is now a Word doc and reads as though it were written in Word2010. Truly I['m a little blown away for the quality. Perhaps this one conversion was a fluke. For now I'm hopeful. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:14 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents No, I remember there were paragraph marks after every line. Of course, that was years ago, prior to AR 3.0. As for the image problem, that can be a bear, depending upon the quality you have to work with. I have an old Kenwood product manual that still looks strange, but is now useable, thanks to 16. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 4:57 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Ted, I'm not sure what you mean by it not being the most attractive document around. The PDF Copied and pasted into Word is surprisingly clean and reads with no errors. Or are you talking about an image being converted into text. That is often a mess as you say. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 12:30 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents Andre's way is an oldie but a goody. I used it back before AR was accessible; but Bill is right, it won't do a thing for an image file. Even when it works, it's not the most attractive document around. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Bill White via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 10:31 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Bill White Subject: Re: PDF documents That's not going to work in this case, because all she is getting in the document are graphics. She may need to convert the document with OCR software such as OpenBook. she can also use the services of RoboBraille if she can upload the document. I'll include the link for her here. http://robobraille.org/ Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Jarreau via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Andre Jarreau" <andre.jarreau@earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:25 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Another possible way. I did this yesterday. Opened a 245 page PDF. Then I selected all using control-A. Then copied and pasted directly into a blank Word doc. Then saved the Word Doc under the book title name. Now it opens in Word remarkably fast and reads very well. It might be searchable. Hope this helps. I use latest J16, Office and Word 2010 on my I5 Dell laptop. Best -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:57 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Ann Byrne Subject: Re: PDF documents If you have JAWS 16, have it convert the document for you. Press insert-spacebar, then the letter o for optical character recognition, then d for document, and let it run. When JAWS has finished, the document is not only readable, but it can be copied and saved into another form, such as Word or text. good luck! At 08:30 PM 7/15/2015, you wrote: My office has a program that is supposed to convert pdf documents to searchable text. The issue is that my sighted colleague said that she could do a search of this one large document and find different words in it. However JAWS just read "graphic" Graphic" and gave me some numbers of the graphics. I'm wondering what is happening here, does anyone have any ideas? Thanks! Bar _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: PDF documents Andre Jarreau <andre.jarreau@...> #31570 I can't tell you how it works. I haven't given it much thought. ...not that I could figure it out. If your architectural drawings can be put in a PDF then check out ViewPoint graphics embossers. They have two. One that just embosses and the other that will laser print the PDF onto embosser paper then emboss the images. They are expensive. $20K for the embosser with laser printed images on it. toggle quoted messageShow quoted text -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Greg Nickel via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:24 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Greg Nickel Subject: RE: PDF documents Can you tell me if JAWS 16converts the pictures into text boxes on the Word doc? On the idea of conveying a picture other than visually, I could see a tactile display coming in handy is for technical drawings like architectural or otherwise that are line based drawings. I do a lot of work with architectural and for now I have someone draw over the lines with a vinyl tactile marking tube. Any other ideas that might be better? -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:18 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents When you come down to it, how do you read a picture anyway? Sure, you can extract text, but how do you read, for example, a photograph? Place a center fold on a scanner, and a male synth will emit a deep heart-felt sigh! All kidding aside, how could a screen reader convey meaningful information. I suppose a tactile display might be able to do it two-dimensionally. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:19 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents I'm told the resulting Word doc is an exact replica of the original PDF including graphics and images, photos etc. However only the text of the document is visible to screenreaders. Wish graphics and images were readable by Jaws but they are not. I've heard there is soon to be released a device called something like BumpPad It's said to be a tactile I-Pad type device made for blind people. I don't know who makes it or when it will be released. It was described as being able to read graphs and possibly images. Don't know any more than that. I will for sure be looking for it when it hits the market. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Greg Nickel via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:31 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Greg Nickel Subject: RE: PDF documents How does 16 do with the conversion of graphics or pictures in a pdf? I have been holding back from updating to 16 to let the bugs get worked out but converting pdf's to word docs is a fairly useful tool especially if it does it as accurately as you say. because -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:20 AM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Yeah, using Win7 and J16 latest build. The pDF copied and pasted into Word2010 readily. It is now a Word doc and reads as though it were written in Word2010. Truly I['m a little blown away for the quality. Perhaps this one conversion was a fluke. For now I'm hopeful. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:14 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents No, I remember there were paragraph marks after every line. Of course, that was years ago, prior to AR 3.0. As for the image problem, that can be a bear, depending upon the quality you have to work with. I have an old Kenwood product manual that still looks strange, but is now useable, thanks to 16. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 4:57 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Ted, I'm not sure what you mean by it not being the most attractive document around. The PDF Copied and pasted into Word is surprisingly clean and reads with no errors. Or are you talking about an image being converted into text. That is often a mess as you say. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 12:30 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents Andre's way is an oldie but a goody. I used it back before AR was accessible; but Bill is right, it won't do a thing for an image file. Even when it works, it's not the most attractive document around. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Bill White via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 10:31 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Bill White Subject: Re: PDF documents That's not going to work in this case, because all she is getting in the document are graphics. She may need to convert the document with OCR software such as OpenBook. she can also use the services of RoboBraille if she can upload the document. I'll include the link for her here. http://robobraille.org/ Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Jarreau via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Andre Jarreau" <andre.jarreau@earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:25 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Another possible way. I did this yesterday. Opened a 245 page PDF. Then I selected all using control-A. Then copied and pasted directly into a blank Word doc. Then saved the Word Doc under the book title name. Now it opens in Word remarkably fast and reads very well. It might be searchable. Hope this helps. I use latest J16, Office and Word 2010 on my I5 Dell laptop. Best -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:57 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Ann Byrne Subject: Re: PDF documents If you have JAWS 16, have it convert the document for you. Press insert-spacebar, then the letter o for optical character recognition, then d for document, and let it run. When JAWS has finished, the document is not only readable, but it can be copied and saved into another form, such as Word or text. good luck! At 08:30 PM 7/15/2015, you wrote: My office has a program that is supposed to convert pdf documents to searchable text. The issue is that my sighted colleague said that she could do a search of this one large document and find different words in it. However JAWS just read "graphic" Graphic" and gave me some numbers of the graphics. I'm wondering what is happening here, does anyone have any ideas? Thanks! Bar _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: PDF documents Andre Jarreau <andre.jarreau@...> #31568 Yeah the tactile Pad is curious. It may be possible there might be a slight height dimension in addition to the two dimensions expected. ViewPoint makes a very high quality embosser used for reading atomic scatter graphics for blind Physicists. It also will print anything in a PDF in very high quality. Colors are displayed by height of the very fine dots. Black is the tallest, white is the lowest and all other colors are slightly different heights in between. I actually used one to read a blueprint from an electric power plant. Cool stuff. The technology is there today. I hope the new Bump-Pad or what ever it's called, uses it and useful images can be determined by the blind. toggle quoted messageShow quoted text -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:18 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents When you come down to it, how do you read a picture anyway? Sure, you can extract text, but how do you read, for example, a photograph? Place a center fold on a scanner, and a male synth will emit a deep heart-felt sigh! All kidding aside, how could a screen reader convey meaningful information. I suppose a tactile display might be able to do it two-dimensionally. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:19 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents I'm told the resulting Word doc is an exact replica of the original PDF including graphics and images, photos etc. However only the text of the document is visible to screenreaders. Wish graphics and images were readable by Jaws but they are not. I've heard there is soon to be released a device called something like BumpPad It's said to be a tactile I-Pad type device made for blind people. I don't know who makes it or when it will be released. It was described as being able to read graphs and possibly images. Don't know any more than that. I will for sure be looking for it when it hits the market. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Greg Nickel via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:31 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Greg Nickel Subject: RE: PDF documents How does 16 do with the conversion of graphics or pictures in a pdf? I have been holding back from updating to 16 to let the bugs get worked out but converting pdf's to word docs is a fairly useful tool especially if it does it as accurately as you say. because -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:20 AM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Yeah, using Win7 and J16 latest build. The pDF copied and pasted into Word2010 readily. It is now a Word doc and reads as though it were written in Word2010. Truly I['m a little blown away for the quality. Perhaps this one conversion was a fluke. For now I'm hopeful. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:14 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents No, I remember there were paragraph marks after every line. Of course, that was years ago, prior to AR 3.0. As for the image problem, that can be a bear, depending upon the quality you have to work with. I have an old Kenwood product manual that still looks strange, but is now useable, thanks to 16. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 4:57 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Ted, I'm not sure what you mean by it not being the most attractive document around. The PDF Copied and pasted into Word is surprisingly clean and reads with no errors. Or are you talking about an image being converted into text. That is often a mess as you say. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 12:30 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents Andre's way is an oldie but a goody. I used it back before AR was accessible; but Bill is right, it won't do a thing for an image file. Even when it works, it's not the most attractive document around. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Bill White via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 10:31 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Bill White Subject: Re: PDF documents That's not going to work in this case, because all she is getting in the document are graphics. She may need to convert the document with OCR software such as OpenBook. she can also use the services of RoboBraille if she can upload the document. I'll include the link for her here. http://robobraille.org/ Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Jarreau via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Andre Jarreau" <andre.jarreau@earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:25 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Another possible way. I did this yesterday. Opened a 245 page PDF. Then I selected all using control-A. Then copied and pasted directly into a blank Word doc. Then saved the Word Doc under the book title name. Now it opens in Word remarkably fast and reads very well. It might be searchable. Hope this helps. I use latest J16, Office and Word 2010 on my I5 Dell laptop. Best -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:57 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Ann Byrne Subject: Re: PDF documents If you have JAWS 16, have it convert the document for you. Press insert-spacebar, then the letter o for optical character recognition, then d for document, and let it run. When JAWS has finished, the document is not only readable, but it can be copied and saved into another form, such as Word or text. good luck! At 08:30 PM 7/15/2015, you wrote: My office has a program that is supposed to convert pdf documents to searchable text. The issue is that my sighted colleague said that she could do a search of this one large document and find different words in it. However JAWS just read "graphic" Graphic" and gave me some numbers of the graphics. I'm wondering what is happening here, does anyone have any ideas? Thanks! Bar _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: PDF documents Londa Peterson #31566 If you mean using convenient OCR, I don't think it converts the pictures at all. I've never had anyone look to be sure, but I know I have gotten extraneous text at times that I thought was probably pictures that JAWS tried to OCR. Convenient OCR just puts the text into a virtual viewer. You can then paste it wherever you want. toggle quoted messageShow quoted text -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Greg Nickel via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 3:24 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Greg Nickel Subject: RE: PDF documents Can you tell me if JAWS 16converts the pictures into text boxes on the Word doc? On the idea of conveying a picture other than visually, I could see a tactile display coming in handy is for technical drawings like architectural or otherwise that are line based drawings. I do a lot of work with architectural and for now I have someone draw over the lines with a vinyl tactile marking tube. Any other ideas that might be better? -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:18 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents When you come down to it, how do you read a picture anyway? Sure, you can extract text, but how do you read, for example, a photograph? Place a center fold on a scanner, and a male synth will emit a deep heart-felt sigh! All kidding aside, how could a screen reader convey meaningful information. I suppose a tactile display might be able to do it two-dimensionally. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:19 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents I'm told the resulting Word doc is an exact replica of the original PDF including graphics and images, photos etc. However only the text of the document is visible to screenreaders. Wish graphics and images were readable by Jaws but they are not. I've heard there is soon to be released a device called something like BumpPad It's said to be a tactile I-Pad type device made for blind people. I don't know who makes it or when it will be released. It was described as being able to read graphs and possibly images. Don't know any more than that. I will for sure be looking for it when it hits the market. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Greg Nickel via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:31 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Greg Nickel Subject: RE: PDF documents How does 16 do with the conversion of graphics or pictures in a pdf? I have been holding back from updating to 16 to let the bugs get worked out but converting pdf's to word docs is a fairly useful tool especially if it does it as accurately as you say. because -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:20 AM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Yeah, using Win7 and J16 latest build. The pDF copied and pasted into Word2010 readily. It is now a Word doc and reads as though it were written in Word2010. Truly I['m a little blown away for the quality. Perhaps this one conversion was a fluke. For now I'm hopeful. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:14 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents No, I remember there were paragraph marks after every line. Of course, that was years ago, prior to AR 3.0. As for the image problem, that can be a bear, depending upon the quality you have to work with. I have an old Kenwood product manual that still looks strange, but is now useable, thanks to 16. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 4:57 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Ted, I'm not sure what you mean by it not being the most attractive document around. The PDF Copied and pasted into Word is surprisingly clean and reads with no errors. Or are you talking about an image being converted into text. That is often a mess as you say. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 12:30 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents Andre's way is an oldie but a goody. I used it back before AR was accessible; but Bill is right, it won't do a thing for an image file. Even when it works, it's not the most attractive document around. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Bill White via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 10:31 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Bill White Subject: Re: PDF documents That's not going to work in this case, because all she is getting in the document are graphics. She may need to convert the document with OCR software such as OpenBook. she can also use the services of RoboBraille if she can upload the document. I'll include the link for her here. http://robobraille.org/ Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Jarreau via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Andre Jarreau" <andre.jarreau@earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:25 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Another possible way. I did this yesterday. Opened a 245 page PDF. Then I selected all using control-A. Then copied and pasted directly into a blank Word doc. Then saved the Word Doc under the book title name. Now it opens in Word remarkably fast and reads very well. It might be searchable. Hope this helps. I use latest J16, Office and Word 2010 on my I5 Dell laptop. Best -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:57 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Ann Byrne Subject: Re: PDF documents If you have JAWS 16, have it convert the document for you. Press insert-spacebar, then the letter o for optical character recognition, then d for document, and let it run. When JAWS has finished, the document is not only readable, but it can be copied and saved into another form, such as Word or text. good luck! At 08:30 PM 7/15/2015, you wrote: My office has a program that is supposed to convert pdf documents to searchable text. The issue is that my sighted colleague said that she could do a search of this one large document and find different words in it. However JAWS just read "graphic" Graphic" and gave me some numbers of the graphics. I'm wondering what is happening here, does anyone have any ideas? Thanks! Bar _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: PDF documents Greg Nickel #31565 Can you tell me if JAWS 16converts the pictures into text boxes on the Word doc? On the idea of conveying a picture other than visually, I could see a tactile display coming in handy is for technical drawings like architectural or otherwise that are line based drawings. I do a lot of work with architectural and for now I have someone draw over the lines with a vinyl tactile marking tube. Any other ideas that might be better? toggle quoted messageShow quoted text -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:18 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents When you come down to it, how do you read a picture anyway? Sure, you can extract text, but how do you read, for example, a photograph? Place a center fold on a scanner, and a male synth will emit a deep heart-felt sigh! All kidding aside, how could a screen reader convey meaningful information. I suppose a tactile display might be able to do it two-dimensionally. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:19 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents I'm told the resulting Word doc is an exact replica of the original PDF including graphics and images, photos etc. However only the text of the document is visible to screenreaders. Wish graphics and images were readable by Jaws but they are not. I've heard there is soon to be released a device called something like BumpPad It's said to be a tactile I-Pad type device made for blind people. I don't know who makes it or when it will be released. It was described as being able to read graphs and possibly images. Don't know any more than that. I will for sure be looking for it when it hits the market. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Greg Nickel via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:31 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Greg Nickel Subject: RE: PDF documents How does 16 do with the conversion of graphics or pictures in a pdf? I have been holding back from updating to 16 to let the bugs get worked out but converting pdf's to word docs is a fairly useful tool especially if it does it as accurately as you say. because -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:20 AM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Yeah, using Win7 and J16 latest build. The pDF copied and pasted into Word2010 readily. It is now a Word doc and reads as though it were written in Word2010. Truly I['m a little blown away for the quality. Perhaps this one conversion was a fluke. For now I'm hopeful. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:14 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents No, I remember there were paragraph marks after every line. Of course, that was years ago, prior to AR 3.0. As for the image problem, that can be a bear, depending upon the quality you have to work with. I have an old Kenwood product manual that still looks strange, but is now useable, thanks to 16. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 4:57 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Ted, I'm not sure what you mean by it not being the most attractive document around. The PDF Copied and pasted into Word is surprisingly clean and reads with no errors. Or are you talking about an image being converted into text. That is often a mess as you say. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 12:30 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents Andre's way is an oldie but a goody. I used it back before AR was accessible; but Bill is right, it won't do a thing for an image file. Even when it works, it's not the most attractive document around. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Bill White via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 10:31 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Bill White Subject: Re: PDF documents That's not going to work in this case, because all she is getting in the document are graphics. She may need to convert the document with OCR software such as OpenBook. she can also use the services of RoboBraille if she can upload the document. I'll include the link for her here. http://robobraille.org/ Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Jarreau via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Andre Jarreau" <andre.jarreau@earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:25 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Another possible way. I did this yesterday. Opened a 245 page PDF. Then I selected all using control-A. Then copied and pasted directly into a blank Word doc. Then saved the Word Doc under the book title name. Now it opens in Word remarkably fast and reads very well. It might be searchable. Hope this helps. I use latest J16, Office and Word 2010 on my I5 Dell laptop. Best -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:57 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Ann Byrne Subject: Re: PDF documents If you have JAWS 16, have it convert the document for you. Press insert-spacebar, then the letter o for optical character recognition, then d for document, and let it run. When JAWS has finished, the document is not only readable, but it can be copied and saved into another form, such as Word or text. good luck! At 08:30 PM 7/15/2015, you wrote: My office has a program that is supposed to convert pdf documents to searchable text. The issue is that my sighted colleague said that she could do a search of this one large document and find different words in it. However JAWS just read "graphic" Graphic" and gave me some numbers of the graphics. I'm wondering what is happening here, does anyone have any ideas? Thanks! Bar _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: PDF documents Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) #31564 When you come down to it, how do you read a picture anyway? Sure, you can extract text, but how do you read, for example, a photograph? Place a center fold on a scanner, and a male synth will emit a deep heart-felt sigh! All kidding aside, how could a screen reader convey meaningful information. I suppose a tactile display might be able to do it two-dimensionally. Ted toggle quoted messageShow quoted text -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:19 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents I'm told the resulting Word doc is an exact replica of the original PDF including graphics and images, photos etc. However only the text of the document is visible to screenreaders. Wish graphics and images were readable by Jaws but they are not. I've heard there is soon to be released a device called something like BumpPad It's said to be a tactile I-Pad type device made for blind people. I don't know who makes it or when it will be released. It was described as being able to read graphs and possibly images. Don't know any more than that. I will for sure be looking for it when it hits the market. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Greg Nickel via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:31 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Greg Nickel Subject: RE: PDF documents How does 16 do with the conversion of graphics or pictures in a pdf? I have been holding back from updating to 16 to let the bugs get worked out but converting pdf's to word docs is a fairly useful tool especially if it does it as accurately as you say. because -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:20 AM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Yeah, using Win7 and J16 latest build. The pDF copied and pasted into Word2010 readily. It is now a Word doc and reads as though it were written in Word2010. Truly I['m a little blown away for the quality. Perhaps this one conversion was a fluke. For now I'm hopeful. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:14 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents No, I remember there were paragraph marks after every line. Of course, that was years ago, prior to AR 3.0. As for the image problem, that can be a bear, depending upon the quality you have to work with. I have an old Kenwood product manual that still looks strange, but is now useable, thanks to 16. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Andre Jarreau via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 4:57 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Andre Jarreau Subject: RE: PDF documents Ted, I'm not sure what you mean by it not being the most attractive document around. The PDF Copied and pasted into Word is surprisingly clean and reads with no errors. Or are you talking about an image being converted into text. That is often a mess as you say. Andre -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 12:30 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) Subject: RE: PDF documents Andre's way is an oldie but a goody. I used it back before AR was accessible; but Bill is right, it won't do a thing for an image file. Even when it works, it's not the most attractive document around. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Bill White via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 10:31 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Bill White Subject: Re: PDF documents That's not going to work in this case, because all she is getting in the document are graphics. She may need to convert the document with OCR software such as OpenBook. she can also use the services of RoboBraille if she can upload the document. I'll include the link for her here. http://robobraille.org/ Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Jarreau via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Andre Jarreau" <andre.jarreau@earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:25 PM Subject: RE: PDF documents Another possible way. I did this yesterday. Opened a 245 page PDF. Then I selected all using control-A. Then copied and pasted directly into a blank Word doc. Then saved the Word Doc under the book title name. Now it opens in Word remarkably fast and reads very well. It might be searchable. Hope this helps. I use latest J16, Office and Word 2010 on my I5 Dell laptop. Best -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne via Jfw Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:57 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Ann Byrne Subject: Re: PDF documents If you have JAWS 16, have it convert the document for you. Press insert-spacebar, then the letter o for optical character recognition, then d for document, and let it run. When JAWS has finished, the document is not only readable, but it can be copied and saved into another form, such as Word or text. good luck! At 08:30 PM 7/15/2015, you wrote: My office has a program that is supposed to convert pdf documents to searchable text. The issue is that my sighted colleague said that she could do a search of this one large document and find different words in it. However JAWS just read "graphic" Graphic" and gave me some numbers of the graphics. I'm wondering what is happening here, does anyone have any ideas? Thanks! Bar _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11946 (20150715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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