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Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person?
Adrian Spratt
FS says that only the current release of JAWS 16 works with Windows 10. MS is making Win10 upgrades free for a year. It's a pity that FS doesn't have the resources to make a similar offer for a Win10-compatible version of JAWS.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of stintonjoe--- via Jfw Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2015 11:41 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: stintonjoe@btinternet.com Subject: Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? well I haven't upgraded myself and the main reason for that is my version with jaws came out when windows 7 came out and I don't even know if it will even work with newer versions of windows, although I haven't looked in to it!! and I am in no position to pay for a upgrade yet. so any way i will stick wiht windows 7 and jaws 12.0 for now. and will look in to upgrading when I am forced to do so, and at this moment I am not even sure I will stay with windos any way. well just my thoughts for what iss worth cheers Joe cheers Joe -----Original Message----- From: Kimsan via Jfw Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2015 4:09 AM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Kimsan Subject: RE: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? Sounds to me, as if it is personal preference and we have some on one side of the tracks who likes to have the latest updates, other reasons could be the OS will only be supported for a certain period of time, which we have like 5 years for windows 7. I'm not speaking for others, so nobody attack me, I just upgraded to see what the big woop was. Personally, you made some good points. -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Brad Martin via Jfw Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2015 7:04 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: Brad Martin <brad@formyfriends.org> Subject: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? Hi, I've been following all this Windows 10 stuff with great interest, and I just have a question (with a lot of background first): So FS says you shouldn't use Edge, you should use Firefox or IE. (I'm doing that now in Windows 7.) You can't use the built in mail program; you should use something like Thunderbird or Outlook. (I'm doing that now in Windows 7.) And you should use Adobe Reader for PDF documents. (I'm doing that now in Windows 7.) Reviews I've read all seem to indicate that Cortana is iffy at best. So why should I upgrade again? I'm not being smart; I'd really like to know if I'm going to gain anything other than having a new operating system that I have to use in the same old ways. The only benefit I can see is that Windows 10 will be supported beyond January of 2020, where Windows 7 will not. Am I overlooking some wonderful new feature that should cause me to want to hurry and upgrade? Or does the old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," apply here? I'd really honestly like to know if JAWS users in particular are finding anything beneficial in the upgrade, or if it's just something fun to do to your functioning computer to see if it will still function. P.S. Anybody on this list from Louisiana and thinking Cortana, as in mall? -- Brad Martin brad@formyfriends.org <mailto:brad@formyfriends.org> My Facebook page where I post online shopping coupons and deals: facebook.com/ucoupons <http://www.facebook.com/ucoupons>; My SmarterBucks signup link <http://bit.ly/1w5FCPu>; -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/201508 08/8183d0e8/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: changing the "view" in outlook 2010
Kevin Hourigan <kevinthourigan@...>
Hello Barbra,
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I am using Windows 7, 64 bit, Jaws 16.0. 4350, and Outlook 2013, and pressing alt V, C, V, while in the inbox of Outlook brings up "Current view group box", with a list of options, Cheers Kevin.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Barbara Hansen via Jfw Sent: August-08-15 12:33 PM To: Jfw lists <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: Barbara Hansen <the2skibears@embarqmail.com> Subject: changing the "view" in outlook 2010 Hi List friends, Regarding the info on losing messages in outlook, and the suggestion to change the view menu, I need to know how to do this. The suggestion, alt-V, c, v, did not work for me. When I bring up the ribbons menu and enter on the "view" menu, nothing happens. It just says "blank". I also tried arrowing and tabbing and still says "blank". Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Barbara arrow over to -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/201508 08/e1d0ad4d/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person?
Tom Behler
Yup, and that's exactly how Microsoft gets you in the end!
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Don't you just love it? Dr. Tom Behler from Michigan
-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Bill White via Jfw Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 11:49 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Bill White Subject: Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? What you gain is that, in 2020, when you finally decide to upgrade, Windows10 won't be free anymore. Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Martin via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Brad Martin" <brad@formyfriends.org> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 7:03 PM Subject: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? Hi, __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 12065 (20150808) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person?
stintonjoe@...
well I haven't upgraded myself and the main reason for that is my version with jaws came out when windows 7 came out and I don't even know if it will even work with newer versions of windows, although I haven't looked in to it!! and I am in no position to pay for a upgrade yet.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
so any way i will stick wiht windows 7 and jaws 12.0 for now. and will look in to upgrading when I am forced to do so, and at this moment I am not even sure I will stay with windos any way. well just my thoughts for what iss worth cheers Joe cheers Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: Kimsan via Jfw Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2015 4:09 AM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Kimsan Subject: RE: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? Sounds to me, as if it is personal preference and we have some on one side of the tracks who likes to have the latest updates, other reasons could be the OS will only be supported for a certain period of time, which we have like 5 years for windows 7. I'm not speaking for others, so nobody attack me, I just upgraded to see what the big woop was. Personally, you made some good points. -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Brad Martin via Jfw Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2015 7:04 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: Brad Martin <brad@formyfriends.org> Subject: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? Hi, I've been following all this Windows 10 stuff with great interest, and I just have a question (with a lot of background first): So FS says you shouldn't use Edge, you should use Firefox or IE. (I'm doing that now in Windows 7.) You can't use the built in mail program; you should use something like Thunderbird or Outlook. (I'm doing that now in Windows 7.) And you should use Adobe Reader for PDF documents. (I'm doing that now in Windows 7.) Reviews I've read all seem to indicate that Cortana is iffy at best. So why should I upgrade again? I'm not being smart; I'd really like to know if I'm going to gain anything other than having a new operating system that I have to use in the same old ways. The only benefit I can see is that Windows 10 will be supported beyond January of 2020, where Windows 7 will not. Am I overlooking some wonderful new feature that should cause me to want to hurry and upgrade? Or does the old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," apply here? I'd really honestly like to know if JAWS users in particular are finding anything beneficial in the upgrade, or if it's just something fun to do to your functioning computer to see if it will still function. P.S. Anybody on this list from Louisiana and thinking Cortana, as in mall? -- Brad Martin brad@formyfriends.org <mailto:brad@formyfriends.org> My Facebook page where I post online shopping coupons and deals: facebook.com/ucoupons <http://www.facebook.com/ucoupons>; My SmarterBucks signup link <http://bit.ly/1w5FCPu>; -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/201508 08/8183d0e8/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person?
Tom Behler
Brad:
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Your question here is an excellent one, and, I agree. I also have to believe that many others have this question in mind as well. I will read the responses of others with interest. Dr. Tom Behler from Michigan
-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Brad Martin via Jfw Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 10:04 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Brad Martin Subject: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? Hi, I've been following all this Windows 10 stuff with great interest, and I just have a question (with a lot of background first): So FS says you shouldn't use Edge, you should use Firefox or IE. (I'm doing that now in Windows 7.) You can't use the built in mail program; you should use something like Thunderbird or Outlook. (I'm doing that now in Windows 7.) And you should use Adobe Reader for PDF documents. (I'm doing that now in Windows 7.) Reviews I've read all seem to indicate that Cortana is iffy at best. So why should I upgrade again? I'm not being smart; I'd really like to know if I'm going to gain anything other than having a new operating system that I have to use in the same old ways. The only benefit I can see is that Windows 10 will be supported beyond January of 2020, where Windows 7 will not. Am I overlooking some wonderful new feature that should cause me to want to hurry and upgrade? Or does the old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," apply here? I'd really honestly like to know if JAWS users in particular are finding anything beneficial in the upgrade, or if it's just something fun to do to your functioning computer to see if it will still function. P.S. Anybody on this list from Louisiana and thinking Cortana, as in mall? -- Brad Martin brad@formyfriends.org <mailto:brad@formyfriends.org> My Facebook page where I post online shopping coupons and deals: facebook.com/ucoupons <http://www.facebook.com/ucoupons>; My SmarterBucks signup link <http://bit.ly/1w5FCPu>; -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/201508 08/8183d0e8/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: Installation of Windows 10
Kevin Hourigan <kevinthourigan@...>
Thank you Joseph for all of your input, much appreciated.
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Cheers Kevin.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via Jfw Sent: August-08-15 7:16 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> Subject: RE: Installation of Windows 10 Hi, And when you type something, does JAWS read results automatically? I and other WinTen users observed it doesn't. Cheers, Joseph -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Michal Nowicki via Jfw Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2015 7:09 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: Michal Nowicki <mnowicki4@icloud.com> Subject: RE: Installation of Windows 10 When I bring up the start menu, JAWS says, "Search Box". -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via Jfw Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2015 5:29 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> Subject: RE: Installation of Windows 10 Hi, I was able to reproduce this on my brief testing with JAWS, so this isn't unique to your system. I hope FS knows how to use UIA to resolve this... Cheers, Joseph -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Pablo Morales via Jfw Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2015 3:19 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Pablo Morales Subject: RE: Installation of Windows 10 I have the same problem, I repaired jaws several times, but I can't read the start menu, some times jaws says cortana, other timesjaws says start, but anything else jaws is able to read. I know that my computer is a little bit old, it has quad core, that I bought in 2008. Originally this computer came with windows vista, and I bought windows 7, and now I am trying to with windows 10. Looks like this computer is working fine, some times works a little bit slow, but with jaws I can't read anything in the start menu, no matter if I repair jaws. My question is, it could be a hardware problem due to the age of this computer? -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via Jfw Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 4:36 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Joseph Lee Subject: Re: Installation of Windows 10 Hi, Yes, and there are other issues that should be fixed soon, some of which are issues with somewhat fundamental Windows 10 features, which makes me wonder if FS came out with a half-baked solution last month (I hope FS is doing something these days to fix them and to support Edge). Cheers, Joseph ----- Original Message ----- From: Nermin via Jfw <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com Date sent: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 22:02:15 +0200 Subject: Re: Installation of Windows 10 Hi all, I upgraded my Win 8.1 to 10, but JAWS refuses to announce the start menu. It will sometimes say Cortana, but other than that it stays pretty silent. I've already uninstalled JAWS completely, restarted and reinstalled JAWS, but the problem still persists. Anyone ran into that on their path to Windows 10? I am using a netbook with Win 10 32 bit on it, a Medion 98700. Regards, Nermin _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person?
Maria Campbell
Windows 10 is an indication of the future of Microsoft with the introduction of Cortana and the Edge browser. There's no getting around that, no matter if and when one upgrades. And these two new features will revolutionize Windows computing when they are perfected.
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There are always growing pains with a new system, and the sooner one deals, the better, especially considering free versus having to pay the longer one waits. That is the value of this list, helping with those growing pains.
On 8/9/2015 11:03 AM, Adrian Spratt via Jfw wrote:
Russell, --
Sunny Day Maria Campbell lucky1@ct.metrocast.net Trials without God will break you. Trials with God will make you.
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Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person?
Daniel McBride
Dave:
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There is no deeper meaning. Simply because something is free doesn't necessarily make it worthy of consumption. Daniel
-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Dave Carlson via Jfw Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2015 9:35 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Dave Carlson Subject: Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? Daniel, That's nice for the deer. Is there a deeper meaning to the obvious? Dave Carlson Oregonian, woodworker, Engineer, Musician, and pioneer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel McBride via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Daniel McBride" <dlmlaw@sbcglobal.net> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2015 07:04 AM Subject: RE: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? As I pointed out earlier, a deer gets free feed at his local deer stand feeder. -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt via Jfw Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 11:05 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Adrian Spratt Subject: RE: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? Windows 10 won't be free after a year. I believe the 2020 date refers to the end up MS support. But for now, as Brad says, who has the time? I'm waiting for the first service pack (MS always comes out with one) and FS's first rounds of fixes, all of which I expect will appear within the year. -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Bill White via Jfw Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 11:49 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Bill White Subject: Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? What you gain is that, in 2020, when you finally decide to upgrade, Windows10 won't be free anymore. Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Martin via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Brad Martin" <brad@formyfriends.org> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 7:03 PM Subject: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? Hi, __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 12065 (20150808) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person?
Adrian Spratt
Are you saying Win10 smells? Hard to make out the meaning of this, um, adage.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Daniel McBride via Jfw Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2015 10:05 AM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Daniel McBride Subject: RE: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? As I pointed out earlier, a deer gets free feed at his local deer stand feeder. -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt via Jfw Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 11:05 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Adrian Spratt Subject: RE: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? Windows 10 won't be free after a year. I believe the 2020 date refers to the end up MS support. But for now, as Brad says, who has the time? I'm waiting for the first service pack (MS always comes out with one) and FS's first rounds of fixes, all of which I expect will appear within the year. -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Bill White via Jfw Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 11:49 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Bill White Subject: Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? What you gain is that, in 2020, when you finally decide to upgrade, Windows10 won't be free anymore. Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Martin via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Brad Martin" <brad@formyfriends.org> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 7:03 PM Subject: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? Hi, __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 12065 (20150808) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: Installation of Windows 10
Maria Campbell
That's very interesting. Where does one find this tool?
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 8/9/2015 10:42 AM, Russell Solowoniuk via Jfw wrote:
FS has a tool you can download and run that will automatically uninstall all versions of Jaws prior to Jaws 16. --
Sunny Day Maria Campbell lucky1@ct.metrocast.net Trials without God will break you. Trials with God will make you.
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Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person?
Adrian Spratt
Russell,
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To me, you make an argument for Win7 users to stay with Win7 but for Win8 and Win8.1 users maybe to think about it. Nothing I've read suggests any immediate gains for Win7 users and several negatives. In time, upgrading to Win10 will be unavoidable.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Russell Solowoniuk via Jfw Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2015 10:20 AM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Russell Solowoniuk Subject: RE: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? Hi Brad, I purchased a new laptop last November, a Lenovo Yoga Pro 2 running Windows 8.1. While I did get accustomed to Windows 8.1, I wasn't crazy about it. I updated to Windows 10, and like the fact that the start menu is back. When I press the Windows key, I am placed in a search field, similar to Windows 7. If I down arrow, I am placed in a list of my 6 most used programs, which is really convenient. I am finding Cortana to work quite well... when she isn't able to answer my query, she opens up a search page in Bing... wish the search results could be switched to Google, but at least for now, Bing is the only choice. I am looking forward to trying Edge once Jaws support is available for it. I think whether or not to update to Windows 10 is a very personal choice, and, I also feel that we shouldn't be advised not to update just because we use Jaws. Having said that though, I don't think I would have updated if my laptop wasn't fairly new. I've been reading the various forums and many people are experiencing troubles with the Windows 10 update, not only users of assistive technology, so, as I say, the choice to update is a personal one. For me, I'm glad I updated, but we'll see how things go once Microsoft starts pushing out those updates! Ha ha. Like you say, fun, fun, fun! :) Russell -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Brad Martin via Jfw Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 8:04 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: Brad Martin <brad@formyfriends.org> Subject: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? Hi, I've been following all this Windows 10 stuff with great interest, and I just have a question (with a lot of background first): So FS says you shouldn't use Edge, you should use Firefox or IE. (I'm doing that now in Windows 7.) You can't use the built in mail program; you should use something like Thunderbird or Outlook. (I'm doing that now in Windows 7.) And you should use Adobe Reader for PDF documents. (I'm doing that now in Windows 7.) Reviews I've read all seem to indicate that Cortana is iffy at best. So why should I upgrade again? I'm not being smart; I'd really like to know if I'm going to gain anything other than having a new operating system that I have to use in the same old ways. The only benefit I can see is that Windows 10 will be supported beyond January of 2020, where Windows 7 will not. Am I overlooking some wonderful new feature that should cause me to want to hurry and upgrade? Or does the old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," apply here? I'd really honestly like to know if JAWS users in particular are finding anything beneficial in the upgrade, or if it's just something fun to do to your functioning computer to see if it will still function. P.S. Anybody on this list from Louisiana and thinking Cortana, as in mall? -- Brad Martin brad@formyfriends.org <mailto:brad@formyfriends.org> My Facebook page where I post online shopping coupons and deals: facebook.com/ucoupons <http://www.facebook.com/ucoupons>; My SmarterBucks signup link <http://bit.ly/1w5FCPu>; -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/201508 08/8183d0e8/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: Installation of Windows 10
Russell Solowoniuk
FS has a tool you can download and run that will automatically uninstall all versions of Jaws prior to Jaws 16.
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-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Michal Nowicki via Jfw Sent: Friday, August 07, 2015 1:17 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: Michal Nowicki <mnowicki4@icloud.com> Subject: RE: Installation of Windows 10 Yes. -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw Sent: Friday, August 7, 2015 6:53 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) <Ted.Lisle@ky.gov> Subject: RE: Installation of Windows 10 Also, having read the news release from FS, may I infer that one should cleanly and completely uninstall earlier versions of JAWS? Ted -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Michal Nowicki via Jfw Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2015 7:28 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Michal Nowicki Subject: RE: Installation of Windows 10 Mark and Joe, How did you know when to start Narrator? Did you launch it before starting the update? -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Mark Furness via Jfw Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2015 5:10 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: Mark Furness <flintman57@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Installation of Windows 10 I did it all by myself. I upgraded from windows 7 home premium, running Jaws 16. Thanks to the people on the list as I had to do a repair on jaws. I tried using narrator and that helped a little. But, I’m use to jaws, thus found it frustrating. In short you can do it by yourself. Mark On Aug 6, 2015, at 5:56 PM, Jim Portillo via Jfw <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> wrote: _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person?
Dave...
Daniel,
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That's nice for the deer. Is there a deeper meaning to the obvious? Dave Carlson Oregonian, woodworker, Engineer, Musician, and pioneer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel McBride via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Daniel McBride" <dlmlaw@sbcglobal.net> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2015 07:04 AM Subject: RE: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? As I pointed out earlier, a deer gets free feed at his local deer stand feeder. -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt via Jfw Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 11:05 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Adrian Spratt Subject: RE: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? Windows 10 won't be free after a year. I believe the 2020 date refers to the end up MS support. But for now, as Brad says, who has the time? I'm waiting for the first service pack (MS always comes out with one) and FS's first rounds of fixes, all of which I expect will appear within the year. -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Bill White via Jfw Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 11:49 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Bill White Subject: Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? What you gain is that, in 2020, when you finally decide to upgrade, Windows10 won't be free anymore. Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Martin via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Brad Martin" <brad@formyfriends.org> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 7:03 PM Subject: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? Hi, __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 12065 (20150808) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person?
Hi,
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Hmmm, how can I explain this... A toast notification is like a help balloon except it doesn't really act as such. Once this appears, it'll go away after a few seconds, and you can actually interact with it by pressing Windows+V while it is shown. You can ignore them, and if you do, they'll live in Action Center until you clear them all (pressing Windows+A will open Action Center). Hope this helps. Cheers, Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Aidan via Jfw Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2015 2:22 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: Aidan <aidan.smarttalk@gmail.com> Subject: Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? So josef, if they don't have help balloons anymore but windows, then does that mean that I will get a pop up window when something happens wich I must dismiss? On 09/08/2015, Kimsan via Jfw <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> wrote: Lmao! That was a good one!care. MikeLOL.
-- Facebook: m.facebook.com/aidan.maher92 Skype: andries4451 Twitter: smarttalk7 Audioboo: www.audioboo.com/DjSpotlight _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person?
Russell Solowoniuk
Hi Brad,
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I purchased a new laptop last November, a Lenovo Yoga Pro 2 running Windows 8.1. While I did get accustomed to Windows 8.1, I wasn't crazy about it. I updated to Windows 10, and like the fact that the start menu is back. When I press the Windows key, I am placed in a search field, similar to Windows 7. If I down arrow, I am placed in a list of my 6 most used programs, which is really convenient. I am finding Cortana to work quite well... when she isn't able to answer my query, she opens up a search page in Bing... wish the search results could be switched to Google, but at least for now, Bing is the only choice. I am looking forward to trying Edge once Jaws support is available for it. I think whether or not to update to Windows 10 is a very personal choice, and, I also feel that we shouldn't be advised not to update just because we use Jaws. Having said that though, I don't think I would have updated if my laptop wasn't fairly new. I've been reading the various forums and many people are experiencing troubles with the Windows 10 update, not only users of assistive technology, so, as I say, the choice to update is a personal one. For me, I'm glad I updated, but we'll see how things go once Microsoft starts pushing out those updates! Ha ha. Like you say, fun, fun, fun! :) Russell
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From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Brad Martin via Jfw Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 8:04 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: Brad Martin <brad@formyfriends.org> Subject: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? Hi, I've been following all this Windows 10 stuff with great interest, and I just have a question (with a lot of background first): So FS says you shouldn't use Edge, you should use Firefox or IE. (I'm doing that now in Windows 7.) You can't use the built in mail program; you should use something like Thunderbird or Outlook. (I'm doing that now in Windows 7.) And you should use Adobe Reader for PDF documents. (I'm doing that now in Windows 7.) Reviews I've read all seem to indicate that Cortana is iffy at best. So why should I upgrade again? I'm not being smart; I'd really like to know if I'm going to gain anything other than having a new operating system that I have to use in the same old ways. The only benefit I can see is that Windows 10 will be supported beyond January of 2020, where Windows 7 will not. Am I overlooking some wonderful new feature that should cause me to want to hurry and upgrade? Or does the old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," apply here? I'd really honestly like to know if JAWS users in particular are finding anything beneficial in the upgrade, or if it's just something fun to do to your functioning computer to see if it will still function. P.S. Anybody on this list from Louisiana and thinking Cortana, as in mall? -- Brad Martin brad@formyfriends.org <mailto:brad@formyfriends.org> My Facebook page where I post online shopping coupons and deals: facebook.com/ucoupons <http://www.facebook.com/ucoupons>; My SmarterBucks signup link <http://bit.ly/1w5FCPu>; -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/201508 08/8183d0e8/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person?
Daniel McBride
As I pointed out earlier, a deer gets free feed at his local deer stand
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feeder.
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From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt via Jfw Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 11:05 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Adrian Spratt Subject: RE: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? Windows 10 won't be free after a year. I believe the 2020 date refers to the end up MS support. But for now, as Brad says, who has the time? I'm waiting for the first service pack (MS always comes out with one) and FS's first rounds of fixes, all of which I expect will appear within the year. -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Bill White via Jfw Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 11:49 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Bill White Subject: Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? What you gain is that, in 2020, when you finally decide to upgrade, Windows10 won't be free anymore. Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Martin via Jfw" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: "Brad Martin" <brad@formyfriends.org> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 7:03 PM Subject: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? Hi, __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 12065 (20150808) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: removing jaws license
Russell Solowoniuk
I'm glad this worked for you! :)
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Cheers, Russell
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From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Pablo Morales via Jfw Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 9:51 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: Pablo Morales <pablocmd2014@gmail.com> Subject: RE: removing jaws license I just did a roll back from windows 10 to windows 7. I am happy again, I didn't lose any program, file or any document. -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Russell Solowoniuk via Jfw Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 8:08 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Russell Solowoniuk Subject: RE: removing jaws license Hi, I think you have 30 days from the date you updated to Windows 10 to roll back to your previous operating system. I'm not sure if Jaws will still be there when you roll back though. If it's not, FS gives you 3 activations of Jaws, so, it depends on how many of those you have used. If you don't have any activations left, you just need to contact FS and they will re-set your count back to 3. If you are interested in rolling back to Windows 7, here are the instructions... How to downgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 Introduction So Windows 10 is finally here. You've taken your free upgrade, poked around with the new flat design, Microsoft Edge, Cortana, and the whole shebang - yet something isn't sitting right. Whether you've run into issues with hardware, incompatible work apps, or just plain don't like the direction Microsoft went with Windows 10, you may want to consider rolling back to Windows 8.1 or 7. Thankfully, what may have been a bit of a pain in the past is now a fairly simple process. Because breaking up with Cortana can be hard to do, we've put together this quick guide to help you make it through the emotional turmoil. Some things to consider There are a couple of things you should know before starting the rollback process. The first is that you only have a month to decide whether you want to stick with Microsoft's latest or ditch it for more familiar digs. Once that month is up, you'll have to resort to recovery media that either came with your computer or that you created yourself. It's also unclear right now if users coming from Windows XP will be able to roll back. So far, Microsoft has been quiet on that front, only mentioning Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 as options. Before you start Now, with the fine print out of the way, you'll want to ensure your data is safe and perform a quick check to make sure you can roll back. First, as with any major system-wide change, we'd recommend backing up your important files and pictures. Cloud storage offerings, like Dropbox and OneDrive, are your friends here. However, if you have any sensitive files to back up, we'd recommend doing so locally on an external hard drive. And because you're rolling back to a previous install, this process will obviously only work if you upgraded directly from Windows 7, 8, or 8.1. One thing you'll want to look for is a folder called "Windows.old" in your C directory. This contains the necessary files from your old Windows install, and the rollback won't work without it. It's go time After you've backed up your important files and checked that you can indeed roll back, the process is incredibly simple. To get started, click the start menu and navigate to the settings app. Once it's open, you'll click through to the section called "Update & Security." You'll be taken to the Windows Update page by default, but that isn't what we're concerned with. In the left pane, there will be an option called "recovery," and that's where we'll be doing our work. You should now see several recovery options, but the one that you'll want to go with is called "Go back to a previous version of Windows." Simply click the button to get started, and Windows will do its thing. A few odds and ends Before Windows dives into the process of rolling everything back, you'll be prompted to provide the reason you are rolling back. Consider doing Microsoft a solid and leaving some feedback here. And don't worry: you won't hurt their feelings. You'll then go through a couple of screens telling you to keep your PC plugged in and which files will be preserved in the transition. As a note, you might need your old password when this is finished, so be sure to consult your password stash for that. After you click through the screens, Windows will ask you one last time if you want to roll back. After clicking through, Windows will restart and begin the process. This may take a while depending on a number of things, so you may want to read a book or play some Angry Birds while you wait Welcome back! And with that, you should find yourself back to Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 once Windows finishes doing its thing. There's a chance that you could be missing some important files, but as long as you heeded our advice and backed things up, it should be easy to restore them. If for some reason something went wrong with the process and you find yourself in an unsavory place, you may have to resort to a clean install using the recovery media that came with your machine or a USB install disk. This can be a bit of a pain if you don't have one lying around, but our guide to creating a Windows 8 USB installer should be of some use Here is the website this is taken from... http://www.techradar.com/us/news/software/operating-systems/how-to-downgrade -from-windows-10-to-windows-8-or-windows-7-1300286 HTH Russell -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Pablo Morales via Jfw Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 4:51 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com> Cc: Pablo Morales <pablocmd2014@gmail.com> Subject: removing jaws license Hi all guys, I think that my old computer, doesn't like windows 10 so much, and it is working very slow, opening programs like Outlook 2007, it takes forever to open. So I am thinking that probably will be healthy for my old computer go back to windows 7. I have been reading on internet, that If I have the media of windows 7, I just need to reinstall windows 7 on my computer like formatting the whole hard drive. But I am trying to keep my jaws authorization key, and I read that if I uninstall the license on my older computer, I will not add this key in the fs server, so I will need to call FS and ask them another key. It is true? It doesn't make any sense, but can someone confirm that if I uninstall the license in my computer, I will not be able to use it again, unless I call FS and ask them for another key? Thanks _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person?
Melissa Stott
Judith, I totally agree with you.
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-----Original Message-----
From: j Bron via Jfw Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2015 8:34 AM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: j Bron Subject: RE: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? When I first read about windows 10 being a free download for a time it was exciting. Right now I think I'll stick with windows 7 until all the kinks are worked out. Judith -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Brad Martin via Jfw Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2015 2:17 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Brad Martin Subject: Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? What's worse, if you have Windows 10 Home, you won't be able to delay the "updates" until JAWS figures out what to do with them. Ready or not, here they come. Windows 10 Pro users will be able to delay updates to a point, unspecified is how long you'll be able to delay them. I just read that tonight. Fun fun fun. Brad On 8/8/2015 11:42 PM, Adrian Spratt via Jfw wrote: Joseph,refinements will amount to a service pack even if not given that name. I'll be content to wait. I assume the "bad" part you refer to is that from time to time, a "refinement" may disrupt accessibility because screenreader developers may find it hard to keep up. I agree. the year. documents. mall?(I'm doing that now in Windows 7.) Reviews I've read all seem to ----__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus Brad Martin brad@formyfriends.org <mailto:brad@formyfriends.org> My Facebook page where I post online shopping coupons and deals: facebook.com/ucoupons <http://www.facebook.com/ucoupons>; My SmarterBucks signup link <http://bit.ly/1w5FCPu>; -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/201508 09/cf760b25/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person?
judith bron
When I first read about windows 10 being a free download for a time it was
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exciting. Right now I think I'll stick with windows 7 until all the kinks are worked out. Judith
-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Brad Martin via Jfw Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2015 2:17 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Brad Martin Subject: Re: What do I gain with Windows 10 as a blind person? What's worse, if you have Windows 10 Home, you won't be able to delay the "updates" until JAWS figures out what to do with them. Ready or not, here they come. Windows 10 Pro users will be able to delay updates to a point, unspecified is how long you'll be able to delay them. I just read that tonight. Fun fun fun. Brad On 8/8/2015 11:42 PM, Adrian Spratt via Jfw wrote: Joseph,refinements will amount to a service pack even if not given that name. I'll be content to wait. I assume the "bad" part you refer to is that from time to time, a "refinement" may disrupt accessibility because screenreader developers may find it hard to keep up. I agree. the year. documents. mall?(I'm doing that now in Windows 7.) Reviews I've read all seem to ----__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus Brad Martin brad@formyfriends.org <mailto:brad@formyfriends.org> My Facebook page where I post online shopping coupons and deals: facebook.com/ucoupons <http://www.facebook.com/ucoupons>; My SmarterBucks signup link <http://bit.ly/1w5FCPu>; -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/201508 09/cf760b25/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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question
judith bron
How do I have an automatic response posted on my email saying to the effect
of, "I am out of my office until. John jones." Thanks! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/20150809/4a6cf094/attachment.html>;
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