Date   

Re: simply do not alt tab;suggested solution for using Adobe

 

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 04:33 am, Jason White <jason@...> wrote:
To be fair to the technical support person, if it wasn't their bug but
Adobe's, then there might not have been any other practical work-around until
Adobe fixed it in an update. "Just don't do the action that triggers the bug
until it's fixed" seems to me to be good advice.

Amen!!  Even the FS Tech Support rep knows that this is a workaround, and a bad one, not a solution.  But when an issue is being triggered due to software interactions that are beyond your control and not of your own making there's nothing to do except identify a workaround and/or either asking the person experiencing the problem to report it to the other vendor or do so yourself.

I've not been front line technical support for a company like FS, but have done help desk type stuff a lot and am front line technical support of a sort in my private business.  There are times when you know what's wrong and it's completely beyond your power to make the fix and it's really frustrating.

What's really frustrating for the end user, though, is you can never really know when these statements are real versus "passing the buck" and both happen.  I've been in a JAWS 17 installation failure vortex where I really can't decide who's dead on accurate versus trying to pass the buck at both FS and Microsoft Accessibility.

Brian


Re: find next 2013

 

Kimsan,

                You have a couple of options as far as getting "find next" functionality in Word 2013.  When you hit CTRL+F it uses a specific type of find in Word. You are dropped into the edit field for the find text in the navigation pane, which is to the immediate left of where your actual document text is displayed.  After entering your search word or phrase, if you hit enter the search is performed and focus is thrown on to the "Next Search Result" button, which is announced (at least in NVDA). Each successive hit of the SPACEBAR takes you to the next occurrence of what you just searched for.  What's interesting is that the announcement "Next Search Result Button, next search result" only occurs that once and all I'm hearing in NVDA when I hit the button is "space" even though it's going through the document to the next occurrences of the string until it hits the last one then circles around again back to the first.  The Previous Search Result button is to the immediate left of the Next Search Result button and I can either left arrow to get to it or SHIFT+TAB.  It's function is obvious.  You must hit enter after typing in your search string for focus to be intentionally thrown on to the Next Search Result button.  I hope that JAWS gives better feedback as far as finding the next or previous occurrence, since there is information, "5 of 9 matches", in the navigation status to let you know which occurrence relative to all those found you've landed on.  If you hit ESC when you've arrived on the one you want you are thrown back into the document, with the specific instance search phrase selected, so unless you want to overtype it you have to be careful to get it deselected and yourself positioned where you want to be before starting to enter anything.

                Other options exist if you want to invoke the formal Find or Find and Replace dialog instead.

Brian


Re: find next 2013

judith bron
 

That’s the jaws find and it doesn’t work in word, at least not on this computer.

 

From: Kimsan [mailto:kimsansong@...]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 9:36 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: find next 2013

 

Try using CTRL jaws key f. I used both methods last night.

CTRL jaws key f seems to work much better.

The only thing I don’t like is rinse and repeating, instead for word why can’t there be a key to press to locate the next occurrence of the searched text.

 

From: judith bron [mailto:jbron@...]
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 5:21 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: find next 2013

 

I can only use the jaws find when in email or on the net.  In word the jaws find doesn’t work so I only use control f. 

 

From: Kimsan [mailto:kimsansong@...]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 2:10 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: find next 2013

 

On the internet, when searching for a word, you can press function key 3 and it will locate the next occurrence of the searched text.  How can I do this in word 2013?  Also, did anyone notice a difference in using CTRL jaws key f vs CTRL f? I find that CTRL insert f is much easier to use for some reason lol.

 

Man, this is embarroussing as I should know this stuff, as I used to be a trainer hahaha.


Re: find next 2013

Adrian Spratt
 

Actually, JAWS find (JAWS key+f—no need to add control) does work in Word. However, it can’t search for partial words. It finds only complete words, for example text bounded by spaces and/or punctuation. Word’s control-f search can find search strings whether or not they are complete words. You can also search for much more than letters with the word search function, such as paragraph brakes, tabs, etc.

 

To answer Kimsan’s question, I know of no JAWS equivalent in Word to the F3 “find again” command available on the Internet. However, there are various ways of repeating an MS Word  search. 

 

From: judith bron [mailto:jbron@...]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 8:21 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: find next 2013

 

I can only use the jaws find when in email or on the net.  In word the jaws find doesn’t work so I only use control f. 

 

From: Kimsan [mailto:kimsansong@...]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 2:10 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: find next 2013

 

On the internet, when searching for a word, you can press function key 3 and it will locate the next occurrence of the searched text.  How can I do this in word 2013?  Also, did anyone notice a difference in using CTRL jaws key f vs CTRL f? I find that CTRL insert f is much easier to use for some reason lol.

 

Man, this is embarroussing as I should know this stuff, as I used to be a trainer hahaha.


Re: find next 2013

Kimsan <kimsansong@...>
 

Try using CTRL jaws key f. I used both methods last night.

CTRL jaws key f seems to work much better.

The only thing I don’t like is rinse and repeating, instead for word why can’t there be a key to press to locate the next occurrence of the searched text.

 

From: judith bron [mailto:jbron@...]
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 5:21 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: find next 2013

 

I can only use the jaws find when in email or on the net.  In word the jaws find doesn’t work so I only use control f. 

 

From: Kimsan [mailto:kimsansong@...]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 2:10 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: find next 2013

 

On the internet, when searching for a word, you can press function key 3 and it will locate the next occurrence of the searched text.  How can I do this in word 2013?  Also, did anyone notice a difference in using CTRL jaws key f vs CTRL f? I find that CTRL insert f is much easier to use for some reason lol.

 

Man, this is embarroussing as I should know this stuff, as I used to be a trainer hahaha.


Re: using JAWS with Perkyduck

Shai
 

Hello Marianne,
I have used JAWS with Perky Duck and a braille display. I think that
the way I changed items from being in computer braille on the display
was to go into the settings center when I had Perky Duck open and
change the braille display output to US English grade 1. Then I used
the six key on the keyboard to braille.

On 2/1/16, Marianne Denning <marianne@denningweb.com> wrote:
Has anyone used JAWS and a braille display with Perky Duck? When I
type things in with Perky Duck it is in computer braille on my braille
display. Is there a way to change this?

--
Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
(513) 607-6053




Re: find next 2013

judith bron
 

I can only use the jaws find when in email or on the net.  In word the jaws find doesn’t work so I only use control f. 

 

From: Kimsan [mailto:kimsansong@...]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 2:10 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: find next 2013

 

On the internet, when searching for a word, you can press function key 3 and it will locate the next occurrence of the searched text.  How can I do this in word 2013?  Also, did anyone notice a difference in using CTRL jaws key f vs CTRL f? I find that CTRL insert f is much easier to use for some reason lol.

 

Man, this is embarroussing as I should know this stuff, as I used to be a trainer hahaha.


using JAWS with Perkyduck

Marianne Denning
 

Has anyone used JAWS and a braille display with Perky Duck? When I
type things in with Perky Duck it is in computer braille on my braille
display. Is there a way to change this?

--
Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
(513) 607-6053


Re: simply do not alt tab;suggested solution for using Adobe

Jason White
 

Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@gmail.com> wrote:
Maybe Adobe fixed it in one of their updates, as FS said it wasn’t
their issue but Adobe’s. I was also told not to alt tab as a solution… hence
my hesitation in contacting FS tech support with my latest issue in edit
fields. :)
To be fair to the technical support person, if it wasn't their bug but
Adobe's, then there might not have been any other practical work-around until
Adobe fixed it in an update. "Just don't do the action that triggers the bug
until it's fixed" seems to me to be good advice.


Re: How Can Sighted People Tell Where I Am At on a Screen in JAWS?

Brent Harding
 


I think the issue on the web is that there really is no cursor physically on the screen when on the web, even though we can arrow around the web page as if it were a document. If a person were predominantly working within web-based platforms, this could get to be an issue. I thought the braille viewer showed the screen in braille, so if the sighted person can't visually read braille, we're out of luck.
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: How Can Sighted People Tell Where I Am At on a Screen in JAWS?

Hey Brian!

 

Please do report back to us all here when you get an answer from FS about this.  Apparently, many others suffer from this besides me; which makes me feel better knowing that I am not the only one ; )

 

Best,

Richard

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2016 8:00 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: How Can Sighted People Tell Where I Am At on a Screen in JAWS?

 

On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 07:42 am, Maria Campbell <lucky1inct@...> wrote:

Sadly, I have that feature set to on, and yet hubby doesn't know where I am on web pages.

 Hmmm.  My fingers are itching to write FS Tech Support, and I'll do that in a couple of minutes.  It's only because I wrote them asking about how to move through the ribbon groups via some method other than hitting TAB until you're fingers are exhausted that I learned the following, "You can move between the categories by performing the control+left or right arrow command."  Those commands are not JAWS based, but Windows based, but I haven't known of anyone who knew them.  It makes moving from group to group in the ribbon much faster when you know that a given item you're hunting for either is, or is likely to be, in a given group.

Now I'll ask them if there's a way to set JAWS such that it visually follows what it's presenting via speech.

Brian


find next 2013

Kimsan <kimsansong@...>
 

On the internet, when searching for a word, you can press function key 3 and it will locate the next occurrence of the searched text.  How can I do this in word 2013?  Also, did anyone notice a difference in using CTRL jaws key f vs CTRL f? I find that CTRL insert f is much easier to use for some reason lol.

 

Man, this is embarroussing as I should know this stuff, as I used to be a trainer hahaha.


Re: simply do not alt tab;suggested solution for using Adobe

Russell Solowoniuk
 

I had this issue since last spring on my computer at work, however, I’m not sure exactly what changed but this stopped happening to me sometime in late October. It was still happening with Jaws 17 at first, but no longer. I haven’t tried to go back to Jaws 16 and try it, but will do so when I get a chance. Maybe Adobe fixed it in one of their updates, as FS said it wasn’t their issue but Adobe’s. I was also told not to alt tab as a solution… hence my hesitation in contacting FS tech support with my latest issue in edit fields. :)

Cheers,

Russell

On Jan 31, 2016, at 4:24 PM, ptusing <ptusing@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

HI, all,
I contacted people who told me if they alt tabbed in adocument using Adobe with JAWS 16-7, that everything freezes.
So I contacted F S.
I was told that Adobe works perfectly; simply do not ever alt tab.
I realize what I was hearing was an off-the-cuff minority opinion.
This issue has been a known issue since last summer and involves 2 of the latest versions of JAWS.
I like the product and most of the people at F S.






Re: Action Keys Mode - A Warning to Those Buying Certain New Laptops

Russell Solowoniuk
 

I was lucky before purchasing my Yoga Pro  2 that someone on this list talked about the function keys needing to be changed in the BIOS, so I was aware of this before I brought my laptop home. Otherwise I would have had to wait for sighted help to do this at home.

That’s why I love this list! :)

Russell

On Jan 31, 2016, at 4:25 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 03:14 pm, Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@...> wrote:
It’s much easier to get them to do it before the sale is made!

 Absolutely!!

I have to say that I'd not encountered a computer with this feature until I purchased my latest laptop last fall.  I have no doubt it's been around for at least a couple of years now, since there seems to be a link between the debut of Win8 and UEFI and this feature.

What's bad, though, is that this is not a feature or setting that tends to "get PR" as far as being listed on the box or sometimes in any of the documentation.  It's well-nigh impossible to be aware of it until you've already been caught out by it.  This is even truer if you can't test something with JAWS or another screen reader using some of the "naked" function key commands prior to owning the thing.

Brian



Re: Question on Jaws and headsets

Dave...
 


You need a headset with one ear strictly your computer sound output, and the other strictly the telephone output with the microphone. Plantronics makes one specifically for the visually-impaired.
 
Here's my contact information:
 
call one, inc. (Teresa O'Daniel) 800 843-5432  (Plantronics Headset) model smh-1783-11
 
Dave Carlson
Oregonian, woodworker, Engineer, Musician, and Pioneer

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom macha
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 07:56 PM
Subject: Question on Jaws and headsets

Hello everyone, I just took a job telemarketing. I use Jaws 17 and windows 10. The program we use for the Auto dialer and, “Softphone” allows me to use my own computer. However; I am running into people being able to hear Jaws with my headset/mic. IS there an affordable option that allows me to use, Jaws and hear the customer without them hearing Jaws transactions? Thanks, Tom


Question on Jaws and headsets

Tom Macha <toml614@...>
 

Hello everyone, I just took a job telemarketing. I use Jaws 17 and windows 10. The program we use for the Auto dialer and, “Softphone” allows me to use my own computer. However; I am running into people being able to hear Jaws with my headset/mic. IS there an affordable option that allows me to use, Jaws and hear the customer without them hearing Jaws transactions? Thanks, Tom


Re: Braille Viewer Option?

Tom Behler
 

Thanks, Nermin.

 

This clarifies things nicely.

 

Dr.  Tom Behler from Michigan

 

 

From: Nermin [mailto:voy44@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 9:33 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Braille Viewer Option?

 

Hi tom,

 

the Braille viewer is just a tool that lets a sighted individual see what a Braille display would show to the blind. It’s not really helpful in determining screen positions. It’s just a visualiser so that sighted people know what you feel on your display, so to speak.

 

Regards,

Nermin

 

From: Tom Behler

Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 2:31 AM

Subject: Braille Viewer Option?

 

Hello, everyone.

 

Yesterday, the Braille Viewer option was mentioned as a possible tool in the latest versions of Jaws for helping sighted individuals follow Jaws on the computer screen.

 

Out of curiosity, I asked if someone could give us further details on how this option works, and exactly what it does.

 

I’ve heard nothing so far, but am still very curious about this possibility.

 

Dr.  Tom Behler from Michigan

 


Re: working with application mode

 

I can't say whether or not this article on accessibleculture.org entitled, Not All ARIA Widgets Deserve role="application", will be helpful with regard to use of application mode, but it has given me a bit more insight into the theory behind ARIA tags and application mode in screen readers.

This blog post by Terrill Thompson on ARIA is interesting, too.

Brian


Re: buying Microsoft Office first time

 

On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 05:09 pm, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
enter the rightmost group in a ribbon

 Oops, that should be leftmost.  If you invoke a ribbon and hit tab once, you always enter at the left side and work your way rightward.

As Adrian has confirmed, once you've done a few traversals of the different ribbons you tend to pick up the structure and what's grouped together pretty quickly.  You also start compiling your personal "greatest hits" list of keyboard shortcuts for the things you use frequently, and even often enough that you don't want to figure them out each time you need to do them again.

The various ribbons make a lot more sense when you can traverse each in a structured way, and boy did I ever learn that, as a general rule, use of the arrow keys does anything but that!!  You still have to use them occasionally, though.  When you land in the Font or Font size, both of these are dropdown boxes and you do, of course open and traverse those with the down arrow (and up arrow, to work back up) keys.  For things like the text color chooser you can use all four arrow keys once you're in the color grid.

Brian


Re: Action Keys Mode - A Warning to Those Buying Certain New Laptops

Robin Frost
 

Hi,
this was not the case for my HP Desktop recently purchased in October. It was however the case with my new Toshiba laptop purchased at the same time.
It should also be noted however that not all models and makes require that this be turned off in bios settings.
Some manufacturers such as Toshiba and Dell have a means to do this in control panel keyboard settings once the system is up and running.
Still it’s good to try I emphasize try and find out how a particular model handles this when making purchasing decisions as not all sales people or even tech support people are good about disseminating such information.
Robin
 
 

Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 5:44 PM
Subject: Action Keys Mode - A Warning to Those Buying Certain New Laptops
 

For all I know the following may apply to some desktops and/or all-in-ones, too, but I've not yet encountered it in these environments.

Since the beginning of the laptop, convention had been that the function keys across the very top of the keyboard required the Fn key that's nested along the very bottom of the keyboard to be held before hitting a given function key to make it perform whatever function the manufacturer defines for that key.  Most people are familiar with function keys to do things like:  volume up, volume down, mute, wireless on/off, brightness up, brightness down, etc.

There is a new feature that HP, at least, calls "Action Keys Mode" which turns this convention on its head.  When activated, this makes a simple press of a given function key trigger its function rather than being passed along to whatever application as a key press.  This can have some "interesting" effects for screen reader users.  This function is currently enabled by default on my laptop and the F6 key so happens to be the Mute on/off toggle key.  When using NVDA, if I press F6 it simply toggles the mute state.  In order to make it behave as F6 normally would I must hit Fn+F6.  This does not apply if the SHIFT is pressed along with F6 in order to reverse the direction.  That works perfectly well.  I can only imagine the chaos this could unleash if you start using the various commands that employ the function keys on a system with Action Keys Mode activated.

Action Keys Mode can be disabled, but it is controlled via UEFI/BIOS.  On my machine one disables it by activating the UEFI menu by doing a repeated ESC key press during boot and selecting F10 choice.  Once the old-fashioned BIOS-like screen pops up, you have to transition to the System Configuration pane and arrow to the Action Keys Mode entry and disable it.  Since this is done well before the operating system is even involved, I don't know of a single screen reader that could be active to accomplish the task.

Since this mode is controlled by the hardware ahead of any intervention by anything else, you must disable it if you wish your function keys to operate "the way they always have."

Brian


Re: working with application mode

Adrian Spratt
 

I should have remembered one more way in which applications mode comes up on a website I often visit. In that case, it appears to be a link, but JAWS announces something to the effect of "Applications mode." Here, I'm being indirectly told to trigger the link by pressing the spacebar, not the enter key.

-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt [mailto:Adrian@AdrianSpratt.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 5:26 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: working with application mode

Bob,

I find the way to work with applications mode is not to. When JAWS verbalizes "applications mode," I press the PC cursor key twice to get out of it. After that, navigation and reading work fine.

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Logue [mailto:bobcat11@shaw.ca]
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 1:01 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: working with application mode

Can I get some pointers to documentation for working with application
mode and Jaws on web pages?
A search for application mode in the Jaws manual didn't find anything
helpful.

I'm not having much luck using application mode where I find it more
often these days. Standard keyboard navigation just does not
work.Perhaps there are tricks I don't know about.

Bob