Date   

moderated Re: jaws and internet input fields.

Patrick Murphy
 

Hi Sean,

 

Thanks for that. I have tried javascript as well, and although it works some of the time with some browsers, there is no way to be absolutely sure that something has been entered into the field until the form has been submitted.

In fact, with ie 11, it can get stuck, or give an uncontrollable error either on the client or server.

Using javascript along with php can be troublesome if not done correctly.

The error mechanisms for both languages can get confused if used both client and server side.

Response times etc have an effect.

For this particular web site, it is necessary to use php on both the client and server side.

I am not too worried about the “invalid entry”, as it will be heard on other web sites as well. The “required” attribute in html5 seems to be the most stable way to do this, despite its drawback with the error message.

I was just trying to make the web site a little better for screen readers, but the probability of errors occurring is too risky just to prevent jaws from saying “invalid entry”.

Again, I don’t mean just jaws, the problem also exists with nvda and window eyes as well.

It seems to be a mix between the browsers and screen readers.

There seems to be no “absolute” thing that is causing it.

I think, that it might be something to do with the “user agent” that is passed to the screen readers by the browsers.

However, even if I wanted to, I couldn’t manipulate this, as it could have huge side effects on the performance and testing of the web site.

This would also mean, that it would be manipulated for sighted users as well, perhaps leading to more side effects.

The reason that I mention the user agent string, is that some time ago, I raised a support ticket with sight and sound in the u.k. about web sites displaying differently in chrome, edge and ie.

They told me, that it was to do with the user agent string that was passed from the browsers to jaws, both 2018 and 2020.

If you look at the Netflix site with ie and chrome, you will see different layouts.

Ie displays a “browse” button to bring up the list of navigation links such as series films etc.

If you access the same site using chrome, there is no browse button, but the list of links are automatically shown.

Perhaps, I am spending too much time on this just to get rid of something that appears on other web sites anyway.

There is an fs open call coming up today, and I may bring this up on that call.

Regards,

pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy
Sent: Thursday 28 May 2020 11:37
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws and internet input fields.

 

All,

 

If invalid is being heard by a screen reader because you are using required attribute. This is the behaviour of Firefox and Chrome with both screen readers. Using aria-required doesn’t address the issue. You have to use aria-invalid=”false” and have a JavaScript to change the aria-invisible to true. Not sure if php can do this. Don’t work in that language. If you want more specifics, I can dig up the article which explains this.

 

Note: ie11 does not do this. Safari on the Mac does not do this.

 

Sean

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 5:36 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws and internet input fields.

 

Kevin,

 

yes, the input fields are in a table.

i am using this, as a way of keeping everything straight on the screen, for want of a better explanation.

i have designed a web template, that looks ok according to other people.

as a result, i use this template, when developing further web sites, with a few tweeks from it depending on what the user wants.

you are right to some extent with the aria-required attribute.

however, i am using php on the server side to validate, and depending on the browser used, it doesn't always work.

its not just php, form validation can also fail with javascript in some cases as well when using this attribute.

using this attribute allong with the "required" standard html attribute doesn't work either, in that the "invalid entry" comes back.

from the research i have done, it looks sort of like a needle in a hay stack.

jaws blaims the browsers, and the browsers blaim jaws.

i am just using jaws here, but the problem persists in other screen readers like window eyes and nvda.

maybe its not a big deal, as users of jaws would be seeing this all over the place when it comes to filling in forms. as a blind person, i'm just trying to make it as accessible as i can.

sighted users have no problems with my layout.

it would be nice to get a perspective on this, perhaps from someone who is involved with technical support when it comes to jaws.

is there anyone on this forum from freedom scientific that would like to comment on this?

it would be great to get more technical information in relation to this, and whether it is possible in some way, to fix this eventually with a jaws update.

anyway, i will keep at it and see if i find anything else. if i do, i will let you know.

was there anything else you saw that you think i should change?

as i said, developing this, sometimes, i cannot see the wood for the trees!!

these things need a fresh eye from time to time. i am putting this together for my friend, and god bless him, he wouldn't have a clue as to what is good or bad when it comes to the layout of web sites.

kind regards and thanks

pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of kevin meyers
Sent: Wednesday 27 May 2020 18:57
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws and internet input fields.

 

Pat,

 

I had one html/css class. I don’t have anywhere near the experience you have. I looked at your html on the contact page. It looks like the fields requiring input are in a table. Is that correct. Just wondering.

 

One of my assignments I created a contact page. I just checked it out and the invalid doesn’t show up. Here is what I used on one of the fields. Not sure this anything that could help you.

 

                                             <div><label for="first_name">First name:</label>

                                  <input type="text" name="first_name" id="first_name" maxlength="20" aria-required="true"/><br>

                                             </div>

 

I have a question for you. I have a web site a friend created. He is no longer able to work on it and there is a problem on the contact page. Just like yours it does say invalid and required. The problem I’m having is when I submit the form. I get the 404 error. Do you know anything about this error?

 

My site is kevinsmeyers.com.

 

Who hosts your domain?

 

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 8:53 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws and internet input fields.

 

Hi Kevin,

 

You can go to https://kinsellahomeimprovements.ie

From here select the https://kinsellahomeimprovements.ie/ContactUs.php link.

Now you will be presented with a form.

It will ask for name, email, phone, query and a random number.

You can find the random number displayed on the label just above the input field.

Enter this, and click the “ask us” button if you want to submit the form.

However, there is no need to submit it to see what I am talking about.

When the form is presented, if you press “e” it will take you to the first edit box.

Here you will hear “enter full name invalid entry”.

Jaws is reporting that the entry in the field is invalid, and quite rightly so, as it is currently empty.

The large text area box for the query does not even report its own label.

The random number box does not report its label either, but this is because it is being generated when the page is loaded.

That problem is for another day!!

However, this can be unhelpful for the user.

I have tried having a default in the name/email/phone number fields, but this would allow the user to submit rubbish as it is then not required because it already has a value.

I have done some research, and it suggests, that this has been happening since jaws 2013.

It is not just jaws, people have reported the same thing using nvda and window eyes.

However, it also suggests, that chrome based browsers have something to do with it.

It does not seem to be as prevalent in browsers such as firefox or internet explorer.

I am not speaking for myself here, this is just what I can find out on the internet.

It seems to be the “required” attribute on html5 that is causing it.

The aria-required attribute does not fix it either.

Perhaps, I am too close to this, as I am developing it.

“can’t see the wood for the trees”!!!.

Anyway, if you see something, please let me know, even if it is not relevant here.

I may have overlooked further accessibility features.

Don’t worry if something breaks, I am still developing it.

Cheers,

pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of kevin meyers
Sent: Wednesday 27 May 2020 14:03
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws and internet input fields.

 

What is the url for your web site?

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 6:23 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws and internet input fields.

 

Hi,

 

This is to do with jaws 2018/2020.

The field i have to input on the web site is a “required” field.

When focus is on it, the message that jaws reports is “required invalid entry”.

This happens the first time you set focus to it, because there is nothing in it.

Once you input something, it works fine in that it does not tell you that it is required, or invalid entry because there is something in it.

If you take the text out of it, it defaults back to “required invalid entry”.

There is no problem with this if someone without a screen reader is using the site, but from an accessibility point of view, its not good.

I am developing this site myself. So far, i have found no accessible route around this, despite looking up the various accessibility guide lines (wcag2) etc.

Am i missing something?

Is anyone a programmer out there that has found an accessible work around for this?

Just for your information, the web site is written using html and php. On this particular page, there is no java script.

The fields are always blank when the page is presented to the user.

pat

 


moderated Re: jaws and internet input fields.

Sean Murphy
 

All,

 

If invalid is being heard by a screen reader because you are using required attribute. This is the behaviour of Firefox and Chrome with both screen readers. Using aria-required doesn’t address the issue. You have to use aria-invalid=”false” and have a JavaScript to change the aria-invisible to true. Not sure if php can do this. Don’t work in that language. If you want more specifics, I can dig up the article which explains this.

 

Note: ie11 does not do this. Safari on the Mac does not do this.

 

Sean

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 5:36 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws and internet input fields.

 

Kevin,

 

yes, the input fields are in a table.

i am using this, as a way of keeping everything straight on the screen, for want of a better explanation.

i have designed a web template, that looks ok according to other people.

as a result, i use this template, when developing further web sites, with a few tweeks from it depending on what the user wants.

you are right to some extent with the aria-required attribute.

however, i am using php on the server side to validate, and depending on the browser used, it doesn't always work.

its not just php, form validation can also fail with javascript in some cases as well when using this attribute.

using this attribute allong with the "required" standard html attribute doesn't work either, in that the "invalid entry" comes back.

from the research i have done, it looks sort of like a needle in a hay stack.

jaws blaims the browsers, and the browsers blaim jaws.

i am just using jaws here, but the problem persists in other screen readers like window eyes and nvda.

maybe its not a big deal, as users of jaws would be seeing this all over the place when it comes to filling in forms. as a blind person, i'm just trying to make it as accessible as i can.

sighted users have no problems with my layout.

it would be nice to get a perspective on this, perhaps from someone who is involved with technical support when it comes to jaws.

is there anyone on this forum from freedom scientific that would like to comment on this?

it would be great to get more technical information in relation to this, and whether it is possible in some way, to fix this eventually with a jaws update.

anyway, i will keep at it and see if i find anything else. if i do, i will let you know.

was there anything else you saw that you think i should change?

as i said, developing this, sometimes, i cannot see the wood for the trees!!

these things need a fresh eye from time to time. i am putting this together for my friend, and god bless him, he wouldn't have a clue as to what is good or bad when it comes to the layout of web sites.

kind regards and thanks

pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of kevin meyers
Sent: Wednesday 27 May 2020 18:57
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws and internet input fields.

 

Pat,

 

I had one html/css class. I don’t have anywhere near the experience you have. I looked at your html on the contact page. It looks like the fields requiring input are in a table. Is that correct. Just wondering.

 

One of my assignments I created a contact page. I just checked it out and the invalid doesn’t show up. Here is what I used on one of the fields. Not sure this anything that could help you.

 

                                             <div><label for="first_name">First name:</label>

                                  <input type="text" name="first_name" id="first_name" maxlength="20" aria-required="true"/><br>

                                             </div>

 

I have a question for you. I have a web site a friend created. He is no longer able to work on it and there is a problem on the contact page. Just like yours it does say invalid and required. The problem I’m having is when I submit the form. I get the 404 error. Do you know anything about this error?

 

My site is kevinsmeyers.com.

 

Who hosts your domain?

 

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 8:53 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws and internet input fields.

 

Hi Kevin,

 

You can go to https://kinsellahomeimprovements.ie

From here select the https://kinsellahomeimprovements.ie/ContactUs.php link.

Now you will be presented with a form.

It will ask for name, email, phone, query and a random number.

You can find the random number displayed on the label just above the input field.

Enter this, and click the “ask us” button if you want to submit the form.

However, there is no need to submit it to see what I am talking about.

When the form is presented, if you press “e” it will take you to the first edit box.

Here you will hear “enter full name invalid entry”.

Jaws is reporting that the entry in the field is invalid, and quite rightly so, as it is currently empty.

The large text area box for the query does not even report its own label.

The random number box does not report its label either, but this is because it is being generated when the page is loaded.

That problem is for another day!!

However, this can be unhelpful for the user.

I have tried having a default in the name/email/phone number fields, but this would allow the user to submit rubbish as it is then not required because it already has a value.

I have done some research, and it suggests, that this has been happening since jaws 2013.

It is not just jaws, people have reported the same thing using nvda and window eyes.

However, it also suggests, that chrome based browsers have something to do with it.

It does not seem to be as prevalent in browsers such as firefox or internet explorer.

I am not speaking for myself here, this is just what I can find out on the internet.

It seems to be the “required” attribute on html5 that is causing it.

The aria-required attribute does not fix it either.

Perhaps, I am too close to this, as I am developing it.

“can’t see the wood for the trees”!!!.

Anyway, if you see something, please let me know, even if it is not relevant here.

I may have overlooked further accessibility features.

Don’t worry if something breaks, I am still developing it.

Cheers,

pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of kevin meyers
Sent: Wednesday 27 May 2020 14:03
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws and internet input fields.

 

What is the url for your web site?

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 6:23 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws and internet input fields.

 

Hi,

 

This is to do with jaws 2018/2020.

The field i have to input on the web site is a “required” field.

When focus is on it, the message that jaws reports is “required invalid entry”.

This happens the first time you set focus to it, because there is nothing in it.

Once you input something, it works fine in that it does not tell you that it is required, or invalid entry because there is something in it.

If you take the text out of it, it defaults back to “required invalid entry”.

There is no problem with this if someone without a screen reader is using the site, but from an accessibility point of view, its not good.

I am developing this site myself. So far, i have found no accessible route around this, despite looking up the various accessibility guide lines (wcag2) etc.

Am i missing something?

Is anyone a programmer out there that has found an accessible work around for this?

Just for your information, the web site is written using html and php. On this particular page, there is no java script.

The fields are always blank when the page is presented to the user.

pat

 


moderated Re: jaws and internet input fields.

Patrick Murphy
 

Kevin,

 

yes, the input fields are in a table.

i am using this, as a way of keeping everything straight on the screen, for want of a better explanation.

i have designed a web template, that looks ok according to other people.

as a result, i use this template, when developing further web sites, with a few tweeks from it depending on what the user wants.

you are right to some extent with the aria-required attribute.

however, i am using php on the server side to validate, and depending on the browser used, it doesn't always work.

its not just php, form validation can also fail with javascript in some cases as well when using this attribute.

using this attribute allong with the "required" standard html attribute doesn't work either, in that the "invalid entry" comes back.

from the research i have done, it looks sort of like a needle in a hay stack.

jaws blaims the browsers, and the browsers blaim jaws.

i am just using jaws here, but the problem persists in other screen readers like window eyes and nvda.

maybe its not a big deal, as users of jaws would be seeing this all over the place when it comes to filling in forms. as a blind person, i'm just trying to make it as accessible as i can.

sighted users have no problems with my layout.

it would be nice to get a perspective on this, perhaps from someone who is involved with technical support when it comes to jaws.

is there anyone on this forum from freedom scientific that would like to comment on this?

it would be great to get more technical information in relation to this, and whether it is possible in some way, to fix this eventually with a jaws update.

anyway, i will keep at it and see if i find anything else. if i do, i will let you know.

was there anything else you saw that you think i should change?

as i said, developing this, sometimes, i cannot see the wood for the trees!!

these things need a fresh eye from time to time. i am putting this together for my friend, and god bless him, he wouldn't have a clue as to what is good or bad when it comes to the layout of web sites.

kind regards and thanks

pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of kevin meyers
Sent: Wednesday 27 May 2020 18:57
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws and internet input fields.

 

Pat,

 

I had one html/css class. I don’t have anywhere near the experience you have. I looked at your html on the contact page. It looks like the fields requiring input are in a table. Is that correct. Just wondering.

 

One of my assignments I created a contact page. I just checked it out and the invalid doesn’t show up. Here is what I used on one of the fields. Not sure this anything that could help you.

 

                                             <div><label for="first_name">First name:</label>

                                  <input type="text" name="first_name" id="first_name" maxlength="20" aria-required="true"/><br>

                                             </div>

 

I have a question for you. I have a web site a friend created. He is no longer able to work on it and there is a problem on the contact page. Just like yours it does say invalid and required. The problem I’m having is when I submit the form. I get the 404 error. Do you know anything about this error?

 

My site is kevinsmeyers.com.

 

Who hosts your domain?

 

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 8:53 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws and internet input fields.

 

Hi Kevin,

 

You can go to https://kinsellahomeimprovements.ie

From here select the https://kinsellahomeimprovements.ie/ContactUs.php link.

Now you will be presented with a form.

It will ask for name, email, phone, query and a random number.

You can find the random number displayed on the label just above the input field.

Enter this, and click the “ask us” button if you want to submit the form.

However, there is no need to submit it to see what I am talking about.

When the form is presented, if you press “e” it will take you to the first edit box.

Here you will hear “enter full name invalid entry”.

Jaws is reporting that the entry in the field is invalid, and quite rightly so, as it is currently empty.

The large text area box for the query does not even report its own label.

The random number box does not report its label either, but this is because it is being generated when the page is loaded.

That problem is for another day!!

However, this can be unhelpful for the user.

I have tried having a default in the name/email/phone number fields, but this would allow the user to submit rubbish as it is then not required because it already has a value.

I have done some research, and it suggests, that this has been happening since jaws 2013.

It is not just jaws, people have reported the same thing using nvda and window eyes.

However, it also suggests, that chrome based browsers have something to do with it.

It does not seem to be as prevalent in browsers such as firefox or internet explorer.

I am not speaking for myself here, this is just what I can find out on the internet.

It seems to be the “required” attribute on html5 that is causing it.

The aria-required attribute does not fix it either.

Perhaps, I am too close to this, as I am developing it.

“can’t see the wood for the trees”!!!.

Anyway, if you see something, please let me know, even if it is not relevant here.

I may have overlooked further accessibility features.

Don’t worry if something breaks, I am still developing it.

Cheers,

pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of kevin meyers
Sent: Wednesday 27 May 2020 14:03
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws and internet input fields.

 

What is the url for your web site?

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 6:23 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws and internet input fields.

 

Hi,

 

This is to do with jaws 2018/2020.

The field i have to input on the web site is a “required” field.

When focus is on it, the message that jaws reports is “required invalid entry”.

This happens the first time you set focus to it, because there is nothing in it.

Once you input something, it works fine in that it does not tell you that it is required, or invalid entry because there is something in it.

If you take the text out of it, it defaults back to “required invalid entry”.

There is no problem with this if someone without a screen reader is using the site, but from an accessibility point of view, its not good.

I am developing this site myself. So far, i have found no accessible route around this, despite looking up the various accessibility guide lines (wcag2) etc.

Am i missing something?

Is anyone a programmer out there that has found an accessible work around for this?

Just for your information, the web site is written using html and php. On this particular page, there is no java script.

The fields are always blank when the page is presented to the user.

pat

 


moderated Re: Braille displays that work well with JAWS2020

Shai
 

Hello Richard,
Thank you for the feedback. The elbraille does not have a qwerty
keyboard but one can connect a keyboard to the device via bluetooth or
USB.

On 5/27/20, Richard Turner <richardturner42@...> wrote:
When I tested the QBraille about a year ago using USB, with JAWS, it
worked fine.
If you have not handled one, the only QWERTY keys are the function keys, 1
through 12, and arrow keys, shift, control, alt, and Windows, as I recall.

So, you are mostly using braille commands.
I've not handled the El Braille, but it is basically a Focus 40 5th
Generation docked with a Windows machine, so as I understand it, you are
again using braille commands, or does it have a full QWERTY keyboard?


Richard
Linus to Charlie Brown: "Worrying won't stop the bad stuff from happening,
it just stops you from enjoying the good."

Sent with the iPhone SE 2020
www.turner42.com


On May 27, 2020, at 9:04 PM, Shai <shaiwol@...> wrote:

Hello,
I am looking at the q-braille from Hims or the el-braille and I wanted
to get peoples' thoughts on which one is most efficient? I like the
idea of having a qwerty keyboard and perkins style keyboard on the
device but I also am thinking of a windows portable machine.
How well does the q-braille work with JAWS? I did read the access
world review and it sound like there were issues between the qwerty
keyboard and braille display.
Thank you in advance for any responses.







moderated Re: on the web

Pramit
 

Hi Danney,

The easiest way is to use an email client. 
There are two that I have used and are accessible.
1. Mozilla Thunderbird
2. MS Outlook

Pramit

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 9:24 PM Yates, Danney via groups.io <danney.yates=ablegeorgia.ga.gov@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Everyone, I got adventurous yesterday and checked out my Gmail account on the website, instead of on my phone mail app.  Very overwhelming on the web.

Have any of you been successful in checking your Gmail on the web or is it advisable to have Gmail dumped into some sort of mail client on PC?

Final question, what’s good PC email client to have Gmail reside in, since I’m assuming Gmail does not have such.

 

Thanks for any thoughts on this

 

Danney

 


moderated Re: Braille displays that work well with JAWS2020

Richard Turner
 

 When I tested the QBraille  about a year ago using USB, with JAWS, it worked fine.
If you have not handled one, the only QWERTY keys are the function keys, 1 through 12, and arrow keys, shift, control, alt, and Windows, as I recall.

So, you are mostly using braille commands.
I've not handled the El Braille, but it is basically a Focus 40 5th Generation docked with a Windows machine, so as I understand it, you are again using braille commands, or does it have a full QWERTY keyboard?


Richard

Linus to Charlie Brown: "Worrying won't stop the bad stuff from happening, it just stops you from enjoying the good."


Sent with the iPhone SE 2020
www.turner42.com


On May 27, 2020, at 9:04 PM, Shai <shaiwol@...> wrote:

Hello,
I am looking at the q-braille from Hims or the el-braille and I wanted
to get peoples' thoughts on which one is most efficient? I like the
idea of having a qwerty keyboard and perkins style keyboard on the
device but I also am thinking of a windows portable machine.
How well does the q-braille work with JAWS? I did read the access
world review and it sound like there were issues between the qwerty
keyboard and braille display.
Thank you in advance for any responses.




moderated Braille displays that work well with JAWS2020

Shai
 

Hello,
I am looking at the q-braille from Hims or the el-braille and I wanted
to get peoples' thoughts on which one is most efficient? I like the
idea of having a qwerty keyboard and perkins style keyboard on the
device but I also am thinking of a windows portable machine.
How well does the q-braille work with JAWS? I did read the access
world review and it sound like there were issues between the qwerty
keyboard and braille display.
Thank you in advance for any responses.


moderated Re: How To Access Bookmarks In Google Chrome

David Moore
 

You are great, Orlando! God bless!
David Moore


On Wed, May 27, 2020, 3:44 AM Orlando Enrique Fiol via groups.io <ofiol=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
At 04:23 PM 5/26/2020, Marty Hutchings wrote:
 >I really miss the Favorites folder that was associated with IE.  I
 >would love to be able to save bookmarks from Firefox and Google to the
 >Favorites folder and search by first letter and have them open up in
 >whatever our default browser is instead of each browser having its
 >own list of bookmarks.  I have saved bookmarks in Firefox and in
 >Chrome, but I then forget which one and can't find them again when I
 >want them.

You can still do this. There is still a Favorites folder in your user
profile that you can navigate by first-letter and have any item
opened by your default browser. You could make a shortcut to this
folder for convenience. But with Chrome and Chromium Edge, you can
just press control+L and begin typing the first few letters of the
bookmark you want. If it's there, your search will return results
right from your bookmarks and history. With Chromium browsers, you
can also synch all your bookmarks, history, extensions, passwords,
etc., on all your devices. When I add a bookmark to Chrome on my
desktop, it appears on my laptop and Android phone.


Orlando





moderated Re: jaws and internet input fields.

kevin meyers
 

Pat,

 

I had one html/css class. I don’t have anywhere near the experience you have. I looked at your html on the contact page. It looks like the fields requiring input are in a table. Is that correct. Just wondering.

 

One of my assignments I created a contact page. I just checked it out and the invalid doesn’t show up. Here is what I used on one of the fields. Not sure this anything that could help you.

 

                                             <div><label for="first_name">First name:</label>

                                  <input type="text" name="first_name" id="first_name" maxlength="20" aria-required="true"/><br>

                                             </div>

 

I have a question for you. I have a web site a friend created. He is no longer able to work on it and there is a problem on the contact page. Just like yours it does say invalid and required. The problem I’m having is when I submit the form. I get the 404 error. Do you know anything about this error?

 

My site is kevinsmeyers.com.

 

Who hosts your domain?

 

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 8:53 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws and internet input fields.

 

Hi Kevin,

 

You can go to https://kinsellahomeimprovements.ie

From here select the https://kinsellahomeimprovements.ie/ContactUs.php link.

Now you will be presented with a form.

It will ask for name, email, phone, query and a random number.

You can find the random number displayed on the label just above the input field.

Enter this, and click the “ask us” button if you want to submit the form.

However, there is no need to submit it to see what I am talking about.

When the form is presented, if you press “e” it will take you to the first edit box.

Here you will hear “enter full name invalid entry”.

Jaws is reporting that the entry in the field is invalid, and quite rightly so, as it is currently empty.

The large text area box for the query does not even report its own label.

The random number box does not report its label either, but this is because it is being generated when the page is loaded.

That problem is for another day!!

However, this can be unhelpful for the user.

I have tried having a default in the name/email/phone number fields, but this would allow the user to submit rubbish as it is then not required because it already has a value.

I have done some research, and it suggests, that this has been happening since jaws 2013.

It is not just jaws, people have reported the same thing using nvda and window eyes.

However, it also suggests, that chrome based browsers have something to do with it.

It does not seem to be as prevalent in browsers such as firefox or internet explorer.

I am not speaking for myself here, this is just what I can find out on the internet.

It seems to be the “required” attribute on html5 that is causing it.

The aria-required attribute does not fix it either.

Perhaps, I am too close to this, as I am developing it.

“can’t see the wood for the trees”!!!.

Anyway, if you see something, please let me know, even if it is not relevant here.

I may have overlooked further accessibility features.

Don’t worry if something breaks, I am still developing it.

Cheers,

pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of kevin meyers
Sent: Wednesday 27 May 2020 14:03
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws and internet input fields.

 

What is the url for your web site?

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 6:23 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws and internet input fields.

 

Hi,

 

This is to do with jaws 2018/2020.

The field i have to input on the web site is a “required” field.

When focus is on it, the message that jaws reports is “required invalid entry”.

This happens the first time you set focus to it, because there is nothing in it.

Once you input something, it works fine in that it does not tell you that it is required, or invalid entry because there is something in it.

If you take the text out of it, it defaults back to “required invalid entry”.

There is no problem with this if someone without a screen reader is using the site, but from an accessibility point of view, its not good.

I am developing this site myself. So far, i have found no accessible route around this, despite looking up the various accessibility guide lines (wcag2) etc.

Am i missing something?

Is anyone a programmer out there that has found an accessible work around for this?

Just for your information, the web site is written using html and php. On this particular page, there is no java script.

The fields are always blank when the page is presented to the user.

pat

 


moderated Re: on the web

Richard Turner
 

Personally, I would recommend Outlook.

I have a couple Gmail accounts and they work great in Outlook on my PC

.

 

 

 

Richard

"There's a nap for that." - an anonymous cat in a window in Portland, Oregon.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 9:02 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: on the web

 

Hi Ann,

I would not recommend setting up a gMail account to forward to an account set up on a client.

One would lose the ability to simply reply.

I believe it would be best to just set up the gMail account into the eMail client.

Glenn

----- Original Message -----

From: Ann Byrne

Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:58 AM

Subject: Re: on the web

 

On the web, be sure you are in HTML view, not standard view.  Then press ‘x’ for checkbox.  There is a checkbox associated with each email.

 

If you have another email client, forward your Gmail to it.  I read my Gmail with Outlook 2010 and 2016.  It’s a bit tricky to set up, but lots easier than using native Gmail, in my opinion.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Yates, Danney via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:54 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: on the web

 

Hi Everyone, I got adventurous yesterday and checked out my Gmail account on the website, instead of on my phone mail app.  Very overwhelming on the web.

Have any of you been successful in checking your Gmail on the web or is it advisable to have Gmail dumped into some sort of mail client on PC?

Final question, what’s good PC email client to have Gmail reside in, since I’m assuming Gmail does not have such.

 

Thanks for any thoughts on this

 

Danney

 


moderated Re: on the web

Glenn / Lenny
 

Hi Ann,
I would not recommend setting up a gMail account to forward to an account set up on a client.
One would lose the ability to simply reply.
I believe it would be best to just set up the gMail account into the eMail client.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
From: Ann Byrne
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: on the web

On the web, be sure you are in HTML view, not standard view.  Then press ‘x’ for checkbox.  There is a checkbox associated with each email.

 

If you have another email client, forward your Gmail to it.  I read my Gmail with Outlook 2010 and 2016.  It’s a bit tricky to set up, but lots easier than using native Gmail, in my opinion.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Yates, Danney via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:54 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: on the web

 

Hi Everyone, I got adventurous yesterday and checked out my Gmail account on the website, instead of on my phone mail app.  Very overwhelming on the web.

Have any of you been successful in checking your Gmail on the web or is it advisable to have Gmail dumped into some sort of mail client on PC?

Final question, what’s good PC email client to have Gmail reside in, since I’m assuming Gmail does not have such.

 

Thanks for any thoughts on this

 

Danney

 


moderated Re: on the web

Ann Byrne
 

On the web, be sure you are in HTML view, not standard view.  Then press ‘x’ for checkbox.  There is a checkbox associated with each email.

 

If you have another email client, forward your Gmail to it.  I read my Gmail with Outlook 2010 and 2016.  It’s a bit tricky to set up, but lots easier than using native Gmail, in my opinion.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Yates, Danney via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:54 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: on the web

 

Hi Everyone, I got adventurous yesterday and checked out my Gmail account on the website, instead of on my phone mail app.  Very overwhelming on the web.

Have any of you been successful in checking your Gmail on the web or is it advisable to have Gmail dumped into some sort of mail client on PC?

Final question, what’s good PC email client to have Gmail reside in, since I’m assuming Gmail does not have such.

 

Thanks for any thoughts on this

 

Danney

 


moderated on the web

Yates, Danney
 

Hi Everyone, I got adventurous yesterday and checked out my Gmail account on the website, instead of on my phone mail app.  Very overwhelming on the web.

Have any of you been successful in checking your Gmail on the web or is it advisable to have Gmail dumped into some sort of mail client on PC?

Final question, what’s good PC email client to have Gmail reside in, since I’m assuming Gmail does not have such.

 

Thanks for any thoughts on this

 

Danney

 


moderated Re: alert open emty document

Mario
 

doesn't the recognition In JAWS 2020 automatically maximize the PDF before applying it's OCR?

-------- Original Message --------
From: Richard Turner [mailto:richardturner42@...]
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2020, 9:57 AM
Subject: alert open emty document
Actually, you do not have to save the document first, just open it from
the attachment, then the Jaws OCR will work fine.

I would make sure it was maximized though before doing the OCr.

Richard

"There's a nap for that." - an anonymous cat in a window in Portland,
Oregon.

*From:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Ashleigh
Piccinino
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 6:53 AM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: alert open emty document

I think you have to save the attachment, go into it on whatever folder
you saved it into, and try reading it that way. You might have to use
the JAWS OCR feature, so press the following keystrokes. The layered
command is insert and spacebar. Important, this is the insert key on
your numberpad of a full keyboard for desktop. After pressing this,
press o for OCR and d for document. Hope this helps.



On May 23, 2020, at 2:05 AM, Amir Shah <4amir.shah@...
<mailto:4amir.shah@...>> wrote:



Hi guys my name is amir shah. I am using jaws 2020 on my machine.
When I receive  a attachment,  When I open the attachment jaws will
alert me with a message that “say” alert open empty document .
before when I open the attachment jaws will  let me no if I want to
 scan the document even when I scan the document it will  say the
same thing.  So what do I do. Thank you  for any  suggestion


moderated Re: How To Access Bookmarks In Google Chrome

 

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 03:48 AM, Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
But I want to be able to select the desired items in one folder, copy them to the clipboard, then move on to other folders and somehow append to the clipboard, and finally paste the whole lot somewhere else. How is this done with the keyboard in Windows?
Up through Windows 8, it isn't.  You follow the method you've already outlined.  Selection from multiple folders, creating a collection for later pasting in one or more other folders, is not supported.

Under Windows 10 you can turn on Clipboard History, which is a new feature, to do something either very much akin to what you describe or exactly what you describe.  This is not a feature I use, or want to use, so you're either going to have to read up on it or someone else who likes and uses Clipboard History is going to have to chime in.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: alert open emty document

Richard Turner
 

Actually, you do not have to save the document first, just open it from the attachment, then the Jaws OCR will work fine.

I would make sure it was maximized though before doing the OCr.

 

 

 

Richard

"There's a nap for that." - an anonymous cat in a window in Portland, Oregon.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ashleigh Piccinino
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 6:53 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: alert open emty document

 

I think you have to save the attachment, go into it on whatever folder you saved it into, and try reading it that way. You might have to use the JAWS OCR feature, so press the following keystrokes. The layered command is insert and spacebar. Important, this is the insert key on your numberpad of a full keyboard for desktop. After pressing this, press o for OCR and d for document. Hope this helps.



On May 23, 2020, at 2:05 AM, Amir Shah <4amir.shah@...> wrote:



Hi guys my name is amir shah. I am using jaws 2020 on my machine. When I receive  a attachment,  When I open the attachment jaws will alert me with a message that “say” alert open empty document . before when I open the attachment jaws will  let me no if I want to  scan the document even when I scan the document it will  say the same thing.  So what do I do. Thank you  for any  suggestion  


moderated Re: jaws and internet input fields.

Patrick Murphy
 

Hi Kevin,

 

You can go to https://kinsellahomeimprovements.ie

From here select the https://kinsellahomeimprovements.ie/ContactUs.php link.

Now you will be presented with a form.

It will ask for name, email, phone, query and a random number.

You can find the random number displayed on the label just above the input field.

Enter this, and click the “ask us” button if you want to submit the form.

However, there is no need to submit it to see what I am talking about.

When the form is presented, if you press “e” it will take you to the first edit box.

Here you will hear “enter full name invalid entry”.

Jaws is reporting that the entry in the field is invalid, and quite rightly so, as it is currently empty.

The large text area box for the query does not even report its own label.

The random number box does not report its label either, but this is because it is being generated when the page is loaded.

That problem is for another day!!

However, this can be unhelpful for the user.

I have tried having a default in the name/email/phone number fields, but this would allow the user to submit rubbish as it is then not required because it already has a value.

I have done some research, and it suggests, that this has been happening since jaws 2013.

It is not just jaws, people have reported the same thing using nvda and window eyes.

However, it also suggests, that chrome based browsers have something to do with it.

It does not seem to be as prevalent in browsers such as firefox or internet explorer.

I am not speaking for myself here, this is just what I can find out on the internet.

It seems to be the “required” attribute on html5 that is causing it.

The aria-required attribute does not fix it either.

Perhaps, I am too close to this, as I am developing it.

“can’t see the wood for the trees”!!!.

Anyway, if you see something, please let me know, even if it is not relevant here.

I may have overlooked further accessibility features.

Don’t worry if something breaks, I am still developing it.

Cheers,

pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of kevin meyers
Sent: Wednesday 27 May 2020 14:03
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws and internet input fields.

 

What is the url for your web site?

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 6:23 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws and internet input fields.

 

Hi,

 

This is to do with jaws 2018/2020.

The field i have to input on the web site is a “required” field.

When focus is on it, the message that jaws reports is “required invalid entry”.

This happens the first time you set focus to it, because there is nothing in it.

Once you input something, it works fine in that it does not tell you that it is required, or invalid entry because there is something in it.

If you take the text out of it, it defaults back to “required invalid entry”.

There is no problem with this if someone without a screen reader is using the site, but from an accessibility point of view, its not good.

I am developing this site myself. So far, i have found no accessible route around this, despite looking up the various accessibility guide lines (wcag2) etc.

Am i missing something?

Is anyone a programmer out there that has found an accessible work around for this?

Just for your information, the web site is written using html and php. On this particular page, there is no java script.

The fields are always blank when the page is presented to the user.

pat

 


moderated Re: alert open emty document

Ashleigh Piccinino
 

I think you have to save the attachment, go into it on whatever folder you saved it into, and try reading it that way. You might have to use the JAWS OCR feature, so press the following keystrokes. The layered command is insert and spacebar. Important, this is the insert key on your numberpad of a full keyboard for desktop. After pressing this, press o for OCR and d for document. Hope this helps.


On May 23, 2020, at 2:05 AM, Amir Shah <4amir.shah@...> wrote:



Hi guys my name is amir shah. I am using jaws 2020 on my machine. When I receive  a attachment,  When I open the attachment jaws will alert me with a message that “say” alert open empty document . before when I open the attachment jaws will  let me no if I want to  scan the document even when I scan the document it will  say the same thing.  So what do I do. Thank you  for any  suggestion  


moderated Re: jaws and internet input fields.

kevin meyers
 

What is the url for your web site?

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 6:23 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws and internet input fields.

 

Hi,

 

This is to do with jaws 2018/2020.

The field i have to input on the web site is a “required” field.

When focus is on it, the message that jaws reports is “required invalid entry”.

This happens the first time you set focus to it, because there is nothing in it.

Once you input something, it works fine in that it does not tell you that it is required, or invalid entry because there is something in it.

If you take the text out of it, it defaults back to “required invalid entry”.

There is no problem with this if someone without a screen reader is using the site, but from an accessibility point of view, its not good.

I am developing this site myself. So far, i have found no accessible route around this, despite looking up the various accessibility guide lines (wcag2) etc.

Am i missing something?

Is anyone a programmer out there that has found an accessible work around for this?

Just for your information, the web site is written using html and php. On this particular page, there is no java script.

The fields are always blank when the page is presented to the user.

pat

 


moderated Re: How To Access Bookmarks In Google Chrome

CJ &AA MAY
 

Whilst we're talking about selecting, until recently I could copy and paste
items from my iTunes library to my Milestone's SD-card in the usual way of
copy and pasting, but recently I can now only do this by using the context
menu to select copy.
Alison

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Orlando Enrique
Fiol via groups.io
Sent: 27 May 2020 08:48
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: How To Access Bookmarks In Google Chrome

At 05:39 PM 5/26/2020, Brian Vogel wrote:
>Just the additional note that selection tends to work like this under
Windows no matter what program you need to do it in. It works this >way
in File Explorer, Open dialogs where you can select more than one >thing
such as multiple documents to attach, and the list goes on and on.

I of course know that. However, I've never been able to select noncontiguous
items from different folders, copy all of them and paste them in one fell
swoop. If, for instance, I want to select some items in my Documents
directory from Anthropology, some more from Food, some from Literature and
others from Music, I have to select the items from each folder, copy, cut or
paste them. But I want to be able to select the desired items in one folder,
copy them to the clipboard, then move on to other folders and somehow append
to the clipboard, and finally paste the whole lot somewhere else. How is
this done with the keyboard in Windows?


Orlando Enrique Fiol