All,

If invalid is being heard by a screen reader because you are using required attribute. This is the behaviour of Firefox and Chrome with both screen readers. Using aria-required doesn’t address the issue. You have to use aria-invalid=”false” and have a JavaScript to change the aria-invisible to true. Not sure if php can do this. Don’t work in that language. If you want more specifics, I can dig up the article which explains this.

Note: ie11 does not do this. Safari on the Mac does not do this.

Sean

Kevin,

yes, the input fields are in a table.

i am using this, as a way of keeping everything straight on the screen, for want of a better explanation.

i have designed a web template, that looks ok according to other people.

as a result, i use this template, when developing further web sites, with a few tweeks from it depending on what the user wants.

you are right to some extent with the aria-required attribute.

however, i am using php on the server side to validate, and depending on the browser used, it doesn't always work.

its not just php, form validation can also fail with javascript in some cases as well when using this attribute.

using this attribute allong with the "required" standard html attribute doesn't work either, in that the "invalid entry" comes back.

from the research i have done, it looks sort of like a needle in a hay stack.

jaws blaims the browsers, and the browsers blaim jaws.

i am just using jaws here, but the problem persists in other screen readers like window eyes and nvda.

maybe its not a big deal, as users of jaws would be seeing this all over the place when it comes to filling in forms. as a blind person, i'm just trying to make it as accessible as i can.

sighted users have no problems with my layout.

it would be nice to get a perspective on this, perhaps from someone who is involved with technical support when it comes to jaws.

is there anyone on this forum from freedom scientific that would like to comment on this?

it would be great to get more technical information in relation to this, and whether it is possible in some way, to fix this eventually with a jaws update.

anyway, i will keep at it and see if i find anything else. if i do, i will let you know.

was there anything else you saw that you think i should change?

as i said, developing this, sometimes, i cannot see the wood for the trees!!

these things need a fresh eye from time to time. i am putting this together for my friend, and god bless him, he wouldn't have a clue as to what is good or bad when it comes to the layout of web sites.

kind regards and thanks

pat

Pat,

I had one html/css class. I don’t have anywhere near the experience you have. I looked at your html on the contact page. It looks like the fields requiring input are in a table. Is that correct. Just wondering.

One of my assignments I created a contact page. I just checked it out and the invalid doesn’t show up. Here is what I used on one of the fields. Not sure this anything that could help you.

                                             <div><label for="first_name">First name:</label>

                                  <input type="text" name="first_name" id="first_name" maxlength="20" aria-required="true"/><br>

                                             </div>

I have a question for you. I have a web site a friend created. He is no longer able to work on it and there is a problem on the contact page. Just like yours it does say invalid and required. The problem I’m having is when I submit the form. I get the 404 error. Do you know anything about this error?

My site is kevinsmeyers.com.

Who hosts your domain?

Thanks,

Kevin

Hi Kevin,

You can go to https://kinsellahomeimprovements.ie

From here select the https://kinsellahomeimprovements.ie/ContactUs.php link.

Now you will be presented with a form.

It will ask for name, email, phone, query and a random number.

You can find the random number displayed on the label just above the input field.

Enter this, and click the “ask us” button if you want to submit the form.

However, there is no need to submit it to see what I am talking about.

When the form is presented, if you press “e” it will take you to the first edit box.

Here you will hear “enter full name invalid entry”.

Jaws is reporting that the entry in the field is invalid, and quite rightly so, as it is currently empty.

The large text area box for the query does not even report its own label.

The random number box does not report its label either, but this is because it is being generated when the page is loaded.

That problem is for another day!!

However, this can be unhelpful for the user.

I have tried having a default in the name/email/phone number fields, but this would allow the user to submit rubbish as it is then not required because it already has a value.

I have done some research, and it suggests, that this has been happening since jaws 2013.

It is not just jaws, people have reported the same thing using nvda and window eyes.

However, it also suggests, that chrome based browsers have something to do with it.

It does not seem to be as prevalent in browsers such as firefox or internet explorer.

I am not speaking for myself here, this is just what I can find out on the internet.

It seems to be the “required” attribute on html5 that is causing it.

The aria-required attribute does not fix it either.

Perhaps, I am too close to this, as I am developing it.

“can’t see the wood for the trees”!!!.

Anyway, if you see something, please let me know, even if it is not relevant here.

I may have overlooked further accessibility features.

Don’t worry if something breaks, I am still developing it.

Cheers,

pat

What is the url for your web site?

Hi,

This is to do with jaws 2018/2020.

The field i have to input on the web site is a “required” field.

When focus is on it, the message that jaws reports is “required invalid entry”.

This happens the first time you set focus to it, because there is nothing in it.

Once you input something, it works fine in that it does not tell you that it is required, or invalid entry because there is something in it.

If you take the text out of it, it defaults back to “required invalid entry”.

There is no problem with this if someone without a screen reader is using the site, but from an accessibility point of view, its not good.

I am developing this site myself. So far, i have found no accessible route around this, despite looking up the various accessibility guide lines (wcag2) etc.

Am i missing something?

Is anyone a programmer out there that has found an accessible work around for this?

Just for your information, the web site is written using html and php. On this particular page, there is no java script.

The fields are always blank when the page is presented to the user.

pat

Kevin,

yes, the input fields are in a table.

i am using this, as a way of keeping everything straight on the screen, for want of a better explanation.

i have designed a web template, that looks ok according to other people.

as a result, i use this template, when developing further web sites, with a few tweeks from it depending on what the user wants.

you are right to some extent with the aria-required attribute.

however, i am using php on the server side to validate, and depending on the browser used, it doesn't always work.

its not just php, form validation can also fail with javascript in some cases as well when using this attribute.

using this attribute allong with the "required" standard html attribute doesn't work either, in that the "invalid entry" comes back.

from the research i have done, it looks sort of like a needle in a hay stack.

jaws blaims the browsers, and the browsers blaim jaws.

i am just using jaws here, but the problem persists in other screen readers like window eyes and nvda.

maybe its not a big deal, as users of jaws would be seeing this all over the place when it comes to filling in forms. as a blind person, i'm just trying to make it as accessible as i can.

sighted users have no problems with my layout.

it would be nice to get a perspective on this, perhaps from someone who is involved with technical support when it comes to jaws.

is there anyone on this forum from freedom scientific that would like to comment on this?

it would be great to get more technical information in relation to this, and whether it is possible in some way, to fix this eventually with a jaws update.

anyway, i will keep at it and see if i find anything else. if i do, i will let you know.

was there anything else you saw that you think i should change?

as i said, developing this, sometimes, i cannot see the wood for the trees!!

these things need a fresh eye from time to time. i am putting this together for my friend, and god bless him, he wouldn't have a clue as to what is good or bad when it comes to the layout of web sites.

kind regards and thanks

pat

Pat,

I had one html/css class. I don’t have anywhere near the experience you have. I looked at your html on the contact page. It looks like the fields requiring input are in a table. Is that correct. Just wondering.

One of my assignments I created a contact page. I just checked it out and the invalid doesn’t show up. Here is what I used on one of the fields. Not sure this anything that could help you.

                                             <div><label for="first_name">First name:</label>

                                  <input type="text" name="first_name" id="first_name" maxlength="20" aria-required="true"/><br>

                                             </div>

I have a question for you. I have a web site a friend created. He is no longer able to work on it and there is a problem on the contact page. Just like yours it does say invalid and required. The problem I’m having is when I submit the form. I get the 404 error. Do you know anything about this error?

My site is kevinsmeyers.com.

Who hosts your domain?

Thanks,

Kevin

Hi Kevin,

You can go to https://kinsellahomeimprovements.ie

From here select the https://kinsellahomeimprovements.ie/ContactUs.php link.

Now you will be presented with a form.

It will ask for name, email, phone, query and a random number.

You can find the random number displayed on the label just above the input field.

Enter this, and click the “ask us” button if you want to submit the form.

However, there is no need to submit it to see what I am talking about.

When the form is presented, if you press “e” it will take you to the first edit box.

Here you will hear “enter full name invalid entry”.

Jaws is reporting that the entry in the field is invalid, and quite rightly so, as it is currently empty.

The large text area box for the query does not even report its own label.

The random number box does not report its label either, but this is because it is being generated when the page is loaded.

That problem is for another day!!

However, this can be unhelpful for the user.

I have tried having a default in the name/email/phone number fields, but this would allow the user to submit rubbish as it is then not required because it already has a value.

I have done some research, and it suggests, that this has been happening since jaws 2013.

It is not just jaws, people have reported the same thing using nvda and window eyes.

However, it also suggests, that chrome based browsers have something to do with it.

It does not seem to be as prevalent in browsers such as firefox or internet explorer.

I am not speaking for myself here, this is just what I can find out on the internet.

It seems to be the “required” attribute on html5 that is causing it.

The aria-required attribute does not fix it either.

Perhaps, I am too close to this, as I am developing it.

“can’t see the wood for the trees”!!!.

Anyway, if you see something, please let me know, even if it is not relevant here.

I may have overlooked further accessibility features.

Don’t worry if something breaks, I am still developing it.

Cheers,

pat

What is the url for your web site?

Hi,

This is to do with jaws 2018/2020.

The field i have to input on the web site is a “required” field.

When focus is on it, the message that jaws reports is “required invalid entry”.

This happens the first time you set focus to it, because there is nothing in it.

Once you input something, it works fine in that it does not tell you that it is required, or invalid entry because there is something in it.

If you take the text out of it, it defaults back to “required invalid entry”.

There is no problem with this if someone without a screen reader is using the site, but from an accessibility point of view, its not good.

I am developing this site myself. So far, i have found no accessible route around this, despite looking up the various accessibility guide lines (wcag2) etc.

Am i missing something?

Is anyone a programmer out there that has found an accessible work around for this?

Just for your information, the web site is written using html and php. On this particular page, there is no java script.

The fields are always blank when the page is presented to the user.

pat

Pat,

I had one html/css class. I don’t have anywhere near the experience you have. I looked at your html on the contact page. It looks like the fields requiring input are in a table. Is that correct. Just wondering.

One of my assignments I created a contact page. I just checked it out and the invalid doesn’t show up. Here is what I used on one of the fields. Not sure this anything that could help you.

                                             <div><label for="first_name">First name:</label>

                                  <input type="text" name="first_name" id="first_name" maxlength="20" aria-required="true"/><br>

                                             </div>

I have a question for you. I have a web site a friend created. He is no longer able to work on it and there is a problem on the contact page. Just like yours it does say invalid and required. The problem I’m having is when I submit the form. I get the 404 error. Do you know anything about this error?

My site is kevinsmeyers.com.

Who hosts your domain?

Thanks,

Kevin

Hi Kevin,

You can go to https://kinsellahomeimprovements.ie

From here select the https://kinsellahomeimprovements.ie/ContactUs.php link.

Now you will be presented with a form.

It will ask for name, email, phone, query and a random number.

You can find the random number displayed on the label just above the input field.

Enter this, and click the “ask us” button if you want to submit the form.

However, there is no need to submit it to see what I am talking about.

When the form is presented, if you press “e” it will take you to the first edit box.

Here you will hear “enter full name invalid entry”.

Jaws is reporting that the entry in the field is invalid, and quite rightly so, as it is currently empty.

The large text area box for the query does not even report its own label.

The random number box does not report its label either, but this is because it is being generated when the page is loaded.

That problem is for another day!!

However, this can be unhelpful for the user.

I have tried having a default in the name/email/phone number fields, but this would allow the user to submit rubbish as it is then not required because it already has a value.

I have done some research, and it suggests, that this has been happening since jaws 2013.

It is not just jaws, people have reported the same thing using nvda and window eyes.

However, it also suggests, that chrome based browsers have something to do with it.

It does not seem to be as prevalent in browsers such as firefox or internet explorer.

I am not speaking for myself here, this is just what I can find out on the internet.

It seems to be the “required” attribute on html5 that is causing it.

The aria-required attribute does not fix it either.

Perhaps, I am too close to this, as I am developing it.

“can’t see the wood for the trees”!!!.

Anyway, if you see something, please let me know, even if it is not relevant here.

I may have overlooked further accessibility features.

Don’t worry if something breaks, I am still developing it.

Cheers,

pat

What is the url for your web site?

Hi,

This is to do with jaws 2018/2020.

The field i have to input on the web site is a “required” field.

When focus is on it, the message that jaws reports is “required invalid entry”.

This happens the first time you set focus to it, because there is nothing in it.

Once you input something, it works fine in that it does not tell you that it is required, or invalid entry because there is something in it.

If you take the text out of it, it defaults back to “required invalid entry”.

There is no problem with this if someone without a screen reader is using the site, but from an accessibility point of view, its not good.

I am developing this site myself. So far, i have found no accessible route around this, despite looking up the various accessibility guide lines (wcag2) etc.

Am i missing something?

Is anyone a programmer out there that has found an accessible work around for this?

Just for your information, the web site is written using html and php. On this particular page, there is no java script.

The fields are always blank when the page is presented to the user.

pat

When I tested the QBraille about a year ago using USB, with JAWS, it
worked fine.
If you have not handled one, the only QWERTY keys are the function keys, 1
through 12, and arrow keys, shift, control, alt, and Windows, as I recall.

So, you are mostly using braille commands.
I've not handled the El Braille, but it is basically a Focus 40 5th
Generation docked with a Windows machine, so as I understand it, you are
again using braille commands, or does it have a full QWERTY keyboard?


Richard
Linus to Charlie Brown: "Worrying won't stop the bad stuff from happening,
it just stops you from enjoying the good."

Sent with the iPhone SE 2020
www.turner42.com


On May 27, 2020, at 9:04 PM, Shai <shaiwol@...> wrote:

Hello,
I am looking at the q-braille from Hims or the el-braille and I wanted
to get peoples' thoughts on which one is most efficient? I like the
idea of having a qwerty keyboard and perkins style keyboard on the
device but I also am thinking of a windows portable machine.
How well does the q-braille work with JAWS? I did read the access
world review and it sound like there were issues between the qwerty
keyboard and braille display.
Thank you in advance for any responses.

On May 27, 2020, at 9:04 PM, Shai <shaiwol@...> wrote:

Hello,
I am looking at the q-braille from Hims or the el-braille and I wanted
to get peoples' thoughts on which one is most efficient? I like the
idea of having a qwerty keyboard and perkins style keyboard on the
device but I also am thinking of a windows portable machine.
How well does the q-braille work with JAWS? I did read the access
world review and it sound like there were issues between the qwerty
keyboard and braille display.
Thank you in advance for any responses.

Hi Kevin,

You can go to https://kinsellahomeimprovements.ie

From here select the https://kinsellahomeimprovements.ie/ContactUs.php link.

Now you will be presented with a form.

It will ask for name, email, phone, query and a random number.

You can find the random number displayed on the label just above the input field.

Enter this, and click the “ask us” button if you want to submit the form.

However, there is no need to submit it to see what I am talking about.

When the form is presented, if you press “e” it will take you to the first edit box.

Here you will hear “enter full name invalid entry”.

Jaws is reporting that the entry in the field is invalid, and quite rightly so, as it is currently empty.

The large text area box for the query does not even report its own label.

The random number box does not report its label either, but this is because it is being generated when the page is loaded.

That problem is for another day!!

However, this can be unhelpful for the user.

I have tried having a default in the name/email/phone number fields, but this would allow the user to submit rubbish as it is then not required because it already has a value.

I have done some research, and it suggests, that this has been happening since jaws 2013.

It is not just jaws, people have reported the same thing using nvda and window eyes.

However, it also suggests, that chrome based browsers have something to do with it.

It does not seem to be as prevalent in browsers such as firefox or internet explorer.

I am not speaking for myself here, this is just what I can find out on the internet.

It seems to be the “required” attribute on html5 that is causing it.

The aria-required attribute does not fix it either.

Perhaps, I am too close to this, as I am developing it.

“can’t see the wood for the trees”!!!.

Anyway, if you see something, please let me know, even if it is not relevant here.

I may have overlooked further accessibility features.

Don’t worry if something breaks, I am still developing it.

Cheers,

pat

What is the url for your web site?

Hi,

This is to do with jaws 2018/2020.

The field i have to input on the web site is a “required” field.

When focus is on it, the message that jaws reports is “required invalid entry”.

This happens the first time you set focus to it, because there is nothing in it.

Once you input something, it works fine in that it does not tell you that it is required, or invalid entry because there is something in it.

If you take the text out of it, it defaults back to “required invalid entry”.

There is no problem with this if someone without a screen reader is using the site, but from an accessibility point of view, its not good.

I am developing this site myself. So far, i have found no accessible route around this, despite looking up the various accessibility guide lines (wcag2) etc.

Am i missing something?

Is anyone a programmer out there that has found an accessible work around for this?

Just for your information, the web site is written using html and php. On this particular page, there is no java script.

The fields are always blank when the page is presented to the user.

pat

On the web, be sure you are in HTML view, not standard view.  Then press ‘x’ for checkbox.  There is a checkbox associated with each email.

If you have another email client, forward your Gmail to it.  I read my Gmail with Outlook 2010 and 2016.  It’s a bit tricky to set up, but lots easier than using native Gmail, in my opinion.

Hi Everyone, I got adventurous yesterday and checked out my Gmail account on the website, instead of on my phone mail app.  Very overwhelming on the web.

Have any of you been successful in checking your Gmail on the web or is it advisable to have Gmail dumped into some sort of mail client on PC?

Final question, what’s good PC email client to have Gmail reside in, since I’m assuming Gmail does not have such.

Thanks for any thoughts on this

Danney

Hi Everyone, I got adventurous yesterday and checked out my Gmail account on the website, instead of on my phone mail app.  Very overwhelming on the web.

Have any of you been successful in checking your Gmail on the web or is it advisable to have Gmail dumped into some sort of mail client on PC?

Final question, what’s good PC email client to have Gmail reside in, since I’m assuming Gmail does not have such.

Thanks for any thoughts on this

Danney

I think you have to save the attachment, go into it on whatever folder you saved it into, and try reading it that way. You might have to use the JAWS OCR feature, so press the following keystrokes. The layered command is insert and spacebar. Important, this is the insert key on your numberpad of a full keyboard for desktop. After pressing this, press o for OCR and d for document. Hope this helps.



Hi guys my name is amir shah. I am using jaws 2020 on my machine. When I receive  a attachment,  When I open the attachment jaws will alert me with a message that “say” alert open empty document . before when I open the attachment jaws will  let me no if I want to  scan the document even when I scan the document it will  say the same thing.  So what do I do. Thank you  for any  suggestion  

What is the url for your web site?

Hi,

This is to do with jaws 2018/2020.

The field i have to input on the web site is a “required” field.

When focus is on it, the message that jaws reports is “required invalid entry”.

This happens the first time you set focus to it, because there is nothing in it.

Once you input something, it works fine in that it does not tell you that it is required, or invalid entry because there is something in it.

If you take the text out of it, it defaults back to “required invalid entry”.

There is no problem with this if someone without a screen reader is using the site, but from an accessibility point of view, its not good.

I am developing this site myself. So far, i have found no accessible route around this, despite looking up the various accessibility guide lines (wcag2) etc.

Am i missing something?

Is anyone a programmer out there that has found an accessible work around for this?

Just for your information, the web site is written using html and php. On this particular page, there is no java script.

The fields are always blank when the page is presented to the user.

pat

On May 23, 2020, at 2:05 AM, Amir Shah <4amir.shah@...> wrote:



Hi guys my name is amir shah. I am using jaws 2020 on my machine. When I receive  a attachment,  When I open the attachment jaws will alert me with a message that “say” alert open empty document . before when I open the attachment jaws will  let me no if I want to  scan the document even when I scan the document it will  say the same thing.  So what do I do. Thank you  for any  suggestion  

Hi,

This is to do with jaws 2018/2020.

The field i have to input on the web site is a “required” field.

When focus is on it, the message that jaws reports is “required invalid entry”.

This happens the first time you set focus to it, because there is nothing in it.

Once you input something, it works fine in that it does not tell you that it is required, or invalid entry because there is something in it.

If you take the text out of it, it defaults back to “required invalid entry”.

There is no problem with this if someone without a screen reader is using the site, but from an accessibility point of view, its not good.

I am developing this site myself. So far, i have found no accessible route around this, despite looking up the various accessibility guide lines (wcag2) etc.

Am i missing something?

Is anyone a programmer out there that has found an accessible work around for this?

Just for your information, the web site is written using html and php. On this particular page, there is no java script.

The fields are always blank when the page is presented to the user.

pat

Windows no matter what program you need to do it in. It works this >way