Date   

moderated Re: Ongoing trouble with PayPal

Ron Kolesar
 

, how can one get to this feature?

Also, we all know how unsafe ie 11 is these days.

Can we run it with the security of edge?

Many thanks.

Ron

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 17:54
To: JFW Mailing List <jfw@groups.io>
Subject: Ongoing trouble with PayPal

 

I just discovered a setting in Microsoft Edge, under the Default Browser category. It is a setting that allows websites to load in "Internet Explorer Mode". Has anyone tried Microsoft Edge with PayPal to see if this resolves the problem of not being able to use PayPal with Microsoft Edge? I do not have a PayPal account, so, cannot check this for myself.

 

Thank you.

 

Bill White

 

billwhite92701@...

 


moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

Marianne Denning
 

I think all of us use many different methods to accomplish a goal. I think any of us who live with someone who can see call on that person for help sometimes. My sighted husband also calls on me to do things that I can do faster or better than he can. We keep our pots and pans in a lower cabinet next to the stove. Since we are both getting older I can get down on the floor to get what he needs faster than he can so he asks me to help with that.  

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Cristóbal
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 7:22 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

The blind men and the elephant analogy etc.…

There are times where I may have dropped or misplaced something and instead of deploying my super blindy locator skills, I just call out for my sighted wife instead. Independence be damned…

Same thing with the Internet. I can try troubleshooting something on my screen or just call her over to see what the heck is on my screen that’s giving me such fits. It’s often an overlay pop up or something that’s messing with my screen reader.

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 3:24 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 02:30 PM, Marianne Denning wrote:

I was working with someone who worked for another blindness company and the person asked me if I had a sighted person who could help.

-
I want someone to explain why this question is offensive.

When you're at a help desk, any help desk, the goal is generally to get a fix as quickly as possible.  There are times where having a sighted assistant can greatly speed things along.  There are times when there really is no substitute for sight when it comes to getting maximum speed and minimum fuss identifying what's happening.  Joseph Lee once said to me, in regard to web browsing, that the sighted (which would include me) see a webpage (but this would apply to anything displaying on a screen) as a gestalt, taking it all in at once, and filtering out the irrelevant versus relevant visually without even realizing you're doing so.  A screen reader user goes element by element through unfamiliar territory and cannot "take it all in at once."  Those are simple facts.

If you don't have access to a sighted assistant, then the answer to that query is, "No, I don't have easy access to a sighted assistant."

Asking whether such is available is not meant, not should it be taken, as a slight to someone who's blind.  I cannot imagine that most in the readership here have not, on multiple occasions, had someone who could see around who could "instantly" identify something you've been struggling with for hours such that you want to scream and rend your garments.  Examples of this completely unrelated to the computer abound, too.  My "value added" most of the time is that I can see something that's, sadly, either not accessible or not accessible quickly and easily and could take a screen reader user hours to find because of how a given program/screen is structured.

If your job is to try to fix an issue as quickly as possible you use all the tools at your disposal, and as a help desk tech there are times where a sighted assistant is a really handy tool to have.  If not available, you try another way, but in many instances it will invariably take much longer.  But if you don't ask whether an optional tool, in this case a sighted assistant, might be available you're not doing your job, or at least not doing it well.  
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

Marianne Denning
 

I am not talking about the mainstream companies. The reason we call a disability help desk in a large company like Microsoft is because they have the knowledge on how to work with people who are blind. I usually find that the people at the Microsoft help desk want to take over my computer and make the changes and I go along with it. In an ideal world they would walk us through a nonvisual way to get the job done but I know that won’t happen any time in the near future. If I need them to do all of this visually that is certainly job security for them.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Diamond
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 12:26 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

I really cannot believe that anyone who is blind does not understand this, I really can't.  And if that's offensive to say, so be it, because it is a fact, and one that is never, ever going to change. Definitely true and no I don’t find it offensive.  There has to be a meeting in the middle though. Sometimes people expect others to cater to them and on the other side of the equation, the other person can refuse to change their terminology or practices. Years ago I’d run into with my phone company those who would say, “It can’t be done!”  When I delved into it the fact was they never tried to do it, just assumed it couldn’t be done. My idea is, at least try and do something don’t just say it can’t be done.        

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: March 5, 2021 9:55 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 12:36 AM, Leedy Diane Bomar wrote:

There are many reasons why this is the most imaginable offensive question.

-
Then, Diane, we definitely come from very, very different worlds.  I can come up with at least 20 questions, off the top of my head, that exceed this one in offensiveness.

There can be people who are being offensive, but I have very clearly explained why it is foolish, yes, foolish to assume that without additional evidence.

And I will say, again, that all accessibility is a workaround.  In the case of screen readers, it is the substitution of audition for vision.  The two senses are in no way directly equivalent.  This will always entail compromises and while the experience can be substantially the same when it comes to text-based information, it will never be for many things that cannot be captured that way.

And the idea that "light dependence no longer needs to be the only way to access information" has been here, now, for quite a while.  But the fact is, and will always remain, that visual media, and anything on a computer besides text is just that, is going to be designed primarily with that in mind.  That it should be accessible, to the maximal extent possible, via other means should be a given in good design.  But do not delude yourself into thinking that even things most ideally designed for maximal accessibility can, or will, ever be able to give you "exactly the same information" that the sighted get, because they can't.

And, by the way, my earlier comments regarding tech support was for tech support dedicated to screen reader users or users of other assistive technology.  Most techs not in that arena have no reason to know about assistive technology.  It is not cost effective to try to train every generic help desk person in how to use a screen reader, particularly since most larger companies do have dedicated AT support and smaller companies have to pick where their money goes.  If there is not a substantial blind user base of a given product, and the maker is a small company down to "mom and pop," they cannot reasonably be expected to have screen reader literate tech support.

And that's not because you're less of a person, or less worthy of respect.  It's because you are part of a tiny minority in the general population and there are limited resources, financial and otherwise.  I really cannot believe that anyone who is blind does not understand this, I really can't.  And if that's offensive to say, so be it, because it is a fact, and one that is never, ever going to change.    
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Working with people at disability help desk

Marianne Denning
 

I am totally 100% understanding when I am working with someone who knows nothing about blind people and how best to help us. I have a problem when someone works with a company who provides goods and services to blind people and asks me if there is a sighted person available. I am the market for these companies and their staff must know how to communicate with me in a nonvisual way. If that person can’t do it because they are new to their job they need to refer me to someone who can work with me.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 12:40 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 12:25 PM, David Diamond wrote:

There has to be a meeting in the middle though.

-
Oh, absolutely!   But that meeting in the middle, when you're the "exotic one" in a given situation, very often entails you educating the helper about certain things as they try to help you.

There was a time when I didn't know diddly-squat about any form of assistive technology.  I learned based on the work I was doing and who I was doing it with.  Had I not needed (or chosen) to do that work with the populations I've worked with I would have absolutely no reason to know anything about it.  Every one of those populations are niche demographics.  The phrase "mainstream support" carries many shadings to the "mainstream" part.  If you are a part of any niche you had better disabuse yourself of the notion of "all things being equal, or even possibly ever being equal" with all possible haste.  And that's not because of malign intent, but because the capitalist system we live under means that businesses exist to make money, and the idea of "spending more than we get back" exists and not wanting to do that is perfectly legitimate.

But even when I didn't know what I know now, I had occasion to work with a couple of folks who happened to be blind, and was able to assist them with technical problems.  I knew I couldn't use visual terms such as, "click on the red X," but I could use the more generic, "Close the window," or, "Exit the program."   I did, and should have been able to expect, that the exact how that was to be done would be known by the person being assisted.  I no sooner knew ALT+F4 than subatomic physics.

Most support techs who want to be in the job will go as far as they possibly can if the other side is willing to meet in the middle.  The relationship between a sighted, but AT clueless support tech, and a blind client need not be adversarial.  When they give a visual instruction, which they will particularly before it sinks in that they can't, saying something like, "What is it that you're hoping will happen?," or, "What is it that you want me to accomplish?," will often get a response back that allows you to instantly know what you must do.

There will always be idiots out there, and I'm not trying to defend them.  But it is every bit as much up to the blind client dealing with someone who does not know AT, and who is not remoted in to their machine so they can see what is going on (which, for obvious reasons, is how we with sight generally work), to help the person trying to help them when it comes to the AT side of things.  It also helps to understand that many of the signt-centric instructions are part of a script.  Far too many companies put the inexperienced on help lines and adamantly insist that they stick with the script, and when they don't know what they're doing, they have to.  It's the people who've been doing this for a while, and like doing it, who often relish being able to "step outside the box" when the opportunity presents itself.  Others, of course, will not, and if it quickly gets ugly then that's when the, "I wish to be put through to your supervisor," step gets taken, as many times as necessary and as many levels as necessary, to lodge a legitimate complaint.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: adobe choice?

Bill White
 

Hi, Brian. I have hesitated to use Unchecky, because I don't always want all options unchecked. Does Unchecky give you the option to check some items, and leave others unchecked, or is it an across-the-board uncheck?

 

Bill White

 

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 10:16 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: adobe choice?

 

On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 09:08 PM, Bill White wrote:

unless you explicitly want any of the bundled software

-
And if you want a utility with a very light footprint that unchecks all this crap for you (at least the vast majority of the time), have look at Unchecky.  Even though I tend to be about as careful as anyone can be about unchecking "offers" for bundled software, if I get in a rush I can sometimes miss.  Unchecky has been an asset in keeping potentially unwanted programs off my computer for around 5 years now.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: adobe choice?

 

On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 09:08 PM, Bill White wrote:
unless you explicitly want any of the bundled software
-
And if you want a utility with a very light footprint that unchecks all this crap for you (at least the vast majority of the time), have look at Unchecky.  Even though I tend to be about as careful as anyone can be about unchecking "offers" for bundled software, if I get in a rush I can sometimes miss.  Unchecky has been an asset in keeping potentially unwanted programs off my computer for around 5 years now.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: converting files from flac to mp3

 

On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 10:03 AM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:
If it's just one file or the occasional one or two files I highly recommend to just use one of many online converters instead of bothering with installing a program.
-
Agreed.  One-off or very rare need to convert really doesn't warrant an installed program to do it.  But if it can reasonably be anticipated that this will recur with some regularity, then it does.

NCH Software actually has a treasure trove of utilities for editing, converting, and otherwise manipulating many file types not limited to audio files.  And most of these have "free for home use" and pro versions.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 12:25 PM, David Diamond wrote:
There has to be a meeting in the middle though.
-
Oh, absolutely!   But that meeting in the middle, when you're the "exotic one" in a given situation, very often entails you educating the helper about certain things as they try to help you.

There was a time when I didn't know diddly-squat about any form of assistive technology.  I learned based on the work I was doing and who I was doing it with.  Had I not needed (or chosen) to do that work with the populations I've worked with I would have absolutely no reason to know anything about it.  Every one of those populations are niche demographics.  The phrase "mainstream support" carries many shadings to the "mainstream" part.  If you are a part of any niche you had better disabuse yourself of the notion of "all things being equal, or even possibly ever being equal" with all possible haste.  And that's not because of malign intent, but because the capitalist system we live under means that businesses exist to make money, and the idea of "spending more than we get back" exists and not wanting to do that is perfectly legitimate.

But even when I didn't know what I know now, I had occasion to work with a couple of folks who happened to be blind, and was able to assist them with technical problems.  I knew I couldn't use visual terms such as, "click on the red X," but I could use the more generic, "Close the window," or, "Exit the program."   I did, and should have been able to expect, that the exact how that was to be done would be known by the person being assisted.  I no sooner knew ALT+F4 than subatomic physics.

Most support techs who want to be in the job will go as far as they possibly can if the other side is willing to meet in the middle.  The relationship between a sighted, but AT clueless support tech, and a blind client need not be adversarial.  When they give a visual instruction, which they will particularly before it sinks in that they can't, saying something like, "What is it that you're hoping will happen?," or, "What is it that you want me to accomplish?," will often get a response back that allows you to instantly know what you must do.

There will always be idiots out there, and I'm not trying to defend them.  But it is every bit as much up to the blind client dealing with someone who does not know AT, and who is not remoted in to their machine so they can see what is going on (which, for obvious reasons, is how we with sight generally work), to help the person trying to help them when it comes to the AT side of things.  It also helps to understand that many of the signt-centric instructions are part of a script.  Far too many companies put the inexperienced on help lines and adamantly insist that they stick with the script, and when they don't know what they're doing, they have to.  It's the people who've been doing this for a while, and like doing it, who often relish being able to "step outside the box" when the opportunity presents itself.  Others, of course, will not, and if it quickly gets ugly then that's when the, "I wish to be put through to your supervisor," step gets taken, as many times as necessary and as many levels as necessary, to lodge a legitimate complaint.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

David Diamond
 

I really cannot believe that anyone who is blind does not understand this, I really can't.  And if that's offensive to say, so be it, because it is a fact, and one that is never, ever going to change. Definitely true and no I don’t find it offensive.  There has to be a meeting in the middle though. Sometimes people expect others to cater to them and on the other side of the equation, the other person can refuse to change their terminology or practices. Years ago I’d run into with my phone company those who would say, “It can’t be done!”  When I delved into it the fact was they never tried to do it, just assumed it couldn’t be done. My idea is, at least try and do something don’t just say it can’t be done.        

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: March 5, 2021 9:55 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 12:36 AM, Leedy Diane Bomar wrote:

There are many reasons why this is the most imaginable offensive question.

-
Then, Diane, we definitely come from very, very different worlds.  I can come up with at least 20 questions, off the top of my head, that exceed this one in offensiveness.

There can be people who are being offensive, but I have very clearly explained why it is foolish, yes, foolish to assume that without additional evidence.

And I will say, again, that all accessibility is a workaround.  In the case of screen readers, it is the substitution of audition for vision.  The two senses are in no way directly equivalent.  This will always entail compromises and while the experience can be substantially the same when it comes to text-based information, it will never be for many things that cannot be captured that way.

And the idea that "light dependence no longer needs to be the only way to access information" has been here, now, for quite a while.  But the fact is, and will always remain, that visual media, and anything on a computer besides text is just that, is going to be designed primarily with that in mind.  That it should be accessible, to the maximal extent possible, via other means should be a given in good design.  But do not delude yourself into thinking that even things most ideally designed for maximal accessibility can, or will, ever be able to give you "exactly the same information" that the sighted get, because they can't.

And, by the way, my earlier comments regarding tech support was for tech support dedicated to screen reader users or users of other assistive technology.  Most techs not in that arena have no reason to know about assistive technology.  It is not cost effective to try to train every generic help desk person in how to use a screen reader, particularly since most larger companies do have dedicated AT support and smaller companies have to pick where their money goes.  If there is not a substantial blind user base of a given product, and the maker is a small company down to "mom and pop," they cannot reasonably be expected to have screen reader literate tech support.

And that's not because you're less of a person, or less worthy of respect.  It's because you are part of a tiny minority in the general population and there are limited resources, financial and otherwise.  I really cannot believe that anyone who is blind does not understand this, I really can't.  And if that's offensive to say, so be it, because it is a fact, and one that is never, ever going to change.    
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Installing Jaws scripts

Udo Egner-Walter
 

Hi John, 

if you are using an older JAWS version you couldn't use the steps I described earlier because older versions of JAWS didn't have this menu items to open the file link folder from JAWS application. Instead you should search for the program group of JAWS in start menu. There must be a folder with file links. In this folder you can find the file link "Explore my settings" too. 

I'm not at a windows PC this time and therefore couldn't write the exact path but if you have a newer version on another PC it's almost the same path. 

Good luck
Udo 




Am 06.03.2021 um 16:02 schrieb John J. Fioravanti, Jr. <fioresq1@...>:

Hi Udo: Actually I'm installing some old scripts for a music keyboard editor from 2011. On this particular  machine, I'm using windows 7 and jaws 14.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Udo Egner-Walter via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 09:38 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Installing Jaws scripts

 

Hi John, 

 

You can find the folder dealing with user scripts this way: 

 

1. Depending on your JAWS installation: 

 

a) If you start JAWS in system tray then press JAWS+J to open JAWS context menu

b) If you don't start JAWS in system tray then Press JAWS+J to bring JAWS window to the front and activate the menu by pressing alt key

 

2. Select "Utilities" and open it

 

3. Select "Explore Utilities Folder". Now Explorer will open with some file links. 

 

4. Search for "Explore my settings" file link and activate it. Another Explorer window will now open containing your settings and user scripts.  

 

If your script file is for a particular application you can copy the scripts file here. If the JSB file is from an older version of JAWS it's a good idea to open your application, then press JAWS+0 (0 in the number row above the chars, not the number block on the right side). This will open Script Manager with your script file. Press Control+S to compile the script again, a new JSB will be made from JAWS. 

 

If your script file is not for a particular application or another script file for an application already exists, you can include your file with a "USE" command. It this is what you need let me know and I can describe this in detail. 

 

Good luck with your script file

Udo 

 

 



Am 06.03.2021 um 13:15 schrieb John J. Fioravanti, Jr. <fioresq1@...>:

 

Hi: perhaps it's my age, but it's been a long time, and I don't remember how to install jaws scripts, the JSB JSD and JSS files. Could someone walk me through it?

Thanks. 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 12:55 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 12:36 AM, Leedy Diane Bomar wrote:

There are many reasons why this is the most imaginable offensive question.

-
Then, Diane, we definitely come from very, very different worlds.  I can come up with at least 20 questions, off the top of my head, that exceed this one in offensiveness.

There can be people who are being offensive, but I have very clearly explained why it is foolish, yes, foolish to assume that without additional evidence.

And I will say, again, that all accessibility is a workaround.  In the case of screen readers, it is the substitution of audition for vision.  The two senses are in no way directly equivalent.  This will always entail compromises and while the experience can be substantially the same when it comes to text-based information, it will never be for many things that cannot be captured that way.

And the idea that "light dependence no longer needs to be the only way to access information" has been here, now, for quite a while.  But the fact is, and will always remain, that visual media, and anything on a computer besides text is just that, is going to be designed primarily with that in mind.  That it should be accessible, to the maximal extent possible, via other means should be a given in good design.  But do not delude yourself into thinking that even things most ideally designed for maximal accessibility can, or will, ever be able to give you "exactly the same information" that the sighted get, because they can't.

And, by the way, my earlier comments regarding tech support was for tech support dedicated to screen reader users or users of other assistive technology.  Most techs not in that arena have no reason to know about assistive technology.  It is not cost effective to try to train every generic help desk person in how to use a screen reader, particularly since most larger companies do have dedicated AT support and smaller companies have to pick where their money goes.  If there is not a substantial blind user base of a given product, and the maker is a small company down to "mom and pop," they cannot reasonably be expected to have screen reader literate tech support.

And that's not because you're less of a person, or less worthy of respect.  It's because you are part of a tiny minority in the general population and there are limited resources, financial and otherwise.  I really cannot believe that anyone who is blind does not understand this, I really can't.  And if that's offensive to say, so be it, because it is a fact, and one that is never, ever going to change.    
-- 

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide

 




moderated Re: converting files from flac to mp3

 

If it's just one file or the occasional one or two files I highly recommend to just use one of many online converters instead of bothering with installing a program. You could save a shortcut if you wish, I usually just go on Google and Google online file converter or, in your case, "convert flac to mp3" and pick one of the first options.

Pretty much all of these work quite well. When I just did a search for Convert flac to mp3, the first option was:

 

FLAC to MP3 | CloudConvert

The second was

FLAC to MP3 - Convert your FLAC to MP3 for Free Online, this one is a site called ZamZar.com which I have used many times for all sorts of online file conversions.

Another good one is online-audioconverter.com

 

When I had a look at the first search result, I read the followibng:

CloudConvert is your Swiss army knife for file conversions. We support nearly all audio, video, document, ebook, archive, image, spreadsheet, and presentation formats. Plus, you can use our online tool without downloading any software.

Pressing the "button" quick nav key, B, put me square on a "Select File" button, this opens a standard open file window, browse to your FLAC file and select it

There is an options drop-down which gives you a bunch of choices, you can convert files stored on your computer, you can enter an URL, select files on Google Drive, Dropbox or OneDrive, change the bitrate and all sorts of stuff, for most situations you probably just want to convert using whatever the defaults are.

Once you select your file find the button to convert, once done there will be a link to download the converted file.

Everything on that site is super accessible and clean.

 

 

Best regards,

Sieghard

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marty Hutchings
Sent: Tuesday, March 2, 2021 2:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: converting files from flac to mp3

 

I like Switch for file conversion, however it can be a bit confusing as to where your new file will end up.

 

Love in Christ
Marty
If we view this present life as our primary goal, we will agree with William Shakespeare who said: “Life is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.” From TODAY IN THE WORD June 1, 2020

 

From: Bill White

Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2021 3:27 PM

Subject: Re: converting files from flac to mp3

 

Hi again, Monica. Below is a link to the free version of Switch Audio Converter.

 

https://www.nch.com.au/switch/switchsetup.exe

 

Bill White

 

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Monica S
Sent: Tuesday, March 2, 2021 1:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: converting files from flac to mp3

 

Hi, a few weeks ago someone mentioned an audio converter that could convert files?  I wonder if you could tell me the name of the file converter and if I could use it to convert a flac audio file to an mp3 file?  Thank you.

 

Sincerely,

 

Monica

 


moderated Re: Installing Jaws scripts

John J. Fioravanti, Jr.
 

Hi Udo: Actually I'm installing some old scripts for a music keyboard editor from 2011. On this particular  machine, I'm using windows 7 and jaws 14.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Udo Egner-Walter via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 09:38 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Installing Jaws scripts

 

Hi John, 

 

You can find the folder dealing with user scripts this way: 

 

1. Depending on your JAWS installation: 

 

a) If you start JAWS in system tray then press JAWS+J to open JAWS context menu

b) If you don't start JAWS in system tray then Press JAWS+J to bring JAWS window to the front and activate the menu by pressing alt key

 

2. Select "Utilities" and open it

 

3. Select "Explore Utilities Folder". Now Explorer will open with some file links. 

 

4. Search for "Explore my settings" file link and activate it. Another Explorer window will now open containing your settings and user scripts.  

 

If your script file is for a particular application you can copy the scripts file here. If the JSB file is from an older version of JAWS it's a good idea to open your application, then press JAWS+0 (0 in the number row above the chars, not the number block on the right side). This will open Script Manager with your script file. Press Control+S to compile the script again, a new JSB will be made from JAWS. 

 

If your script file is not for a particular application or another script file for an application already exists, you can include your file with a "USE" command. It this is what you need let me know and I can describe this in detail. 

 

Good luck with your script file

Udo 

 

 



Am 06.03.2021 um 13:15 schrieb John J. Fioravanti, Jr. <fioresq1@...>:

 

Hi: perhaps it's my age, but it's been a long time, and I don't remember how to install jaws scripts, the JSB JSD and JSS files. Could someone walk me through it?

Thanks. 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 12:55 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 12:36 AM, Leedy Diane Bomar wrote:

There are many reasons why this is the most imaginable offensive question.

-
Then, Diane, we definitely come from very, very different worlds.  I can come up with at least 20 questions, off the top of my head, that exceed this one in offensiveness.

There can be people who are being offensive, but I have very clearly explained why it is foolish, yes, foolish to assume that without additional evidence.

And I will say, again, that all accessibility is a workaround.  In the case of screen readers, it is the substitution of audition for vision.  The two senses are in no way directly equivalent.  This will always entail compromises and while the experience can be substantially the same when it comes to text-based information, it will never be for many things that cannot be captured that way.

And the idea that "light dependence no longer needs to be the only way to access information" has been here, now, for quite a while.  But the fact is, and will always remain, that visual media, and anything on a computer besides text is just that, is going to be designed primarily with that in mind.  That it should be accessible, to the maximal extent possible, via other means should be a given in good design.  But do not delude yourself into thinking that even things most ideally designed for maximal accessibility can, or will, ever be able to give you "exactly the same information" that the sighted get, because they can't.

And, by the way, my earlier comments regarding tech support was for tech support dedicated to screen reader users or users of other assistive technology.  Most techs not in that arena have no reason to know about assistive technology.  It is not cost effective to try to train every generic help desk person in how to use a screen reader, particularly since most larger companies do have dedicated AT support and smaller companies have to pick where their money goes.  If there is not a substantial blind user base of a given product, and the maker is a small company down to "mom and pop," they cannot reasonably be expected to have screen reader literate tech support.

And that's not because you're less of a person, or less worthy of respect.  It's because you are part of a tiny minority in the general population and there are limited resources, financial and otherwise.  I really cannot believe that anyone who is blind does not understand this, I really can't.  And if that's offensive to say, so be it, because it is a fact, and one that is never, ever going to change.    
-- 

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide

 


moderated Re: Installing Jaws scripts

Udo Egner-Walter
 

Hi John, 

You can find the folder dealing with user scripts this way: 

1. Depending on your JAWS installation: 

a) If you start JAWS in system tray then press JAWS+J to open JAWS context menu
b) If you don't start JAWS in system tray then Press JAWS+J to bring JAWS window to the front and activate the menu by pressing alt key

2. Select "Utilities" and open it

3. Select "Explore Utilities Folder". Now Explorer will open with some file links. 

4. Search for "Explore my settings" file link and activate it. Another Explorer window will now open containing your settings and user scripts.  

If your script file is for a particular application you can copy the scripts file here. If the JSB file is from an older version of JAWS it's a good idea to open your application, then press JAWS+0 (0 in the number row above the chars, not the number block on the right side). This will open Script Manager with your script file. Press Control+S to compile the script again, a new JSB will be made from JAWS. 

If your script file is not for a particular application or another script file for an application already exists, you can include your file with a "USE" command. It this is what you need let me know and I can describe this in detail. 

Good luck with your script file
Udo 



Am 06.03.2021 um 13:15 schrieb John J. Fioravanti, Jr. <fioresq1@...>:

Hi: perhaps it's my age, but it's been a long time, and I don't remember how to install jaws scripts, the JSB JSD and JSS files. Could someone walk me through it?
Thanks. 
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 12:55 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!
 
On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 12:36 AM, Leedy Diane Bomar wrote:
There are many reasons why this is the most imaginable offensive question.
-
Then, Diane, we definitely come from very, very different worlds.  I can come up with at least 20 questions, off the top of my head, that exceed this one in offensiveness.

There can be people who are being offensive, but I have very clearly explained why it is foolish, yes, foolish to assume that without additional evidence.

And I will say, again, that all accessibility is a workaround.  In the case of screen readers, it is the substitution of audition for vision.  The two senses are in no way directly equivalent.  This will always entail compromises and while the experience can be substantially the same when it comes to text-based information, it will never be for many things that cannot be captured that way.

And the idea that "light dependence no longer needs to be the only way to access information" has been here, now, for quite a while.  But the fact is, and will always remain, that visual media, and anything on a computer besides text is just that, is going to be designed primarily with that in mind.  That it should be accessible, to the maximal extent possible, via other means should be a given in good design.  But do not delude yourself into thinking that even things most ideally designed for maximal accessibility can, or will, ever be able to give you "exactly the same information" that the sighted get, because they can't.

And, by the way, my earlier comments regarding tech support was for tech support dedicated to screen reader users or users of other assistive technology.  Most techs not in that arena have no reason to know about assistive technology.  It is not cost effective to try to train every generic help desk person in how to use a screen reader, particularly since most larger companies do have dedicated AT support and smaller companies have to pick where their money goes.  If there is not a substantial blind user base of a given product, and the maker is a small company down to "mom and pop," they cannot reasonably be expected to have screen reader literate tech support.

And that's not because you're less of a person, or less worthy of respect.  It's because you are part of a tiny minority in the general population and there are limited resources, financial and otherwise.  I really cannot believe that anyone who is blind does not understand this, I really can't.  And if that's offensive to say, so be it, because it is a fact, and one that is never, ever going to change.    
-- 
Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  
One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.
           ~ André Gide



moderated Installing Jaws scripts

John J. Fioravanti, Jr.
 

Hi: perhaps it's my age, but it's been a long time, and I don't remember how to install jaws scripts, the JSB JSD and JSS files. Could someone walk me through it?

Thanks.

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 12:55 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 12:36 AM, Leedy Diane Bomar wrote:

There are many reasons why this is the most imaginable offensive question.

-
Then, Diane, we definitely come from very, very different worlds.  I can come up with at least 20 questions, off the top of my head, that exceed this one in offensiveness.

There can be people who are being offensive, but I have very clearly explained why it is foolish, yes, foolish to assume that without additional evidence.

And I will say, again, that all accessibility is a workaround.  In the case of screen readers, it is the substitution of audition for vision.  The two senses are in no way directly equivalent.  This will always entail compromises and while the experience can be substantially the same when it comes to text-based information, it will never be for many things that cannot be captured that way.

And the idea that "light dependence no longer needs to be the only way to access information" has been here, now, for quite a while.  But the fact is, and will always remain, that visual media, and anything on a computer besides text is just that, is going to be designed primarily with that in mind.  That it should be accessible, to the maximal extent possible, via other means should be a given in good design.  But do not delude yourself into thinking that even things most ideally designed for maximal accessibility can, or will, ever be able to give you "exactly the same information" that the sighted get, because they can't.

And, by the way, my earlier comments regarding tech support was for tech support dedicated to screen reader users or users of other assistive technology.  Most techs not in that arena have no reason to know about assistive technology.  It is not cost effective to try to train every generic help desk person in how to use a screen reader, particularly since most larger companies do have dedicated AT support and smaller companies have to pick where their money goes.  If there is not a substantial blind user base of a given product, and the maker is a small company down to "mom and pop," they cannot reasonably be expected to have screen reader literate tech support.

And that's not because you're less of a person, or less worthy of respect.  It's because you are part of a tiny minority in the general population and there are limited resources, financial and otherwise.  I really cannot believe that anyone who is blind does not understand this, I really can't.  And if that's offensive to say, so be it, because it is a fact, and one that is never, ever going to change.    
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 12:36 AM, Leedy Diane Bomar wrote:
There are many reasons why this is the most imaginable offensive question.
-
Then, Diane, we definitely come from very, very different worlds.  I can come up with at least 20 questions, off the top of my head, that exceed this one in offensiveness.

There can be people who are being offensive, but I have very clearly explained why it is foolish, yes, foolish to assume that without additional evidence.

And I will say, again, that all accessibility is a workaround.  In the case of screen readers, it is the substitution of audition for vision.  The two senses are in no way directly equivalent.  This will always entail compromises and while the experience can be substantially the same when it comes to text-based information, it will never be for many things that cannot be captured that way.

And the idea that "light dependence no longer needs to be the only way to access information" has been here, now, for quite a while.  But the fact is, and will always remain, that visual media, and anything on a computer besides text is just that, is going to be designed primarily with that in mind.  That it should be accessible, to the maximal extent possible, via other means should be a given in good design.  But do not delude yourself into thinking that even things most ideally designed for maximal accessibility can, or will, ever be able to give you "exactly the same information" that the sighted get, because they can't.

And, by the way, my earlier comments regarding tech support was for tech support dedicated to screen reader users or users of other assistive technology.  Most techs not in that arena have no reason to know about assistive technology.  It is not cost effective to try to train every generic help desk person in how to use a screen reader, particularly since most larger companies do have dedicated AT support and smaller companies have to pick where their money goes.  If there is not a substantial blind user base of a given product, and the maker is a small company down to "mom and pop," they cannot reasonably be expected to have screen reader literate tech support.

And that's not because you're less of a person, or less worthy of respect.  It's because you are part of a tiny minority in the general population and there are limited resources, financial and otherwise.  I really cannot believe that anyone who is blind does not understand this, I really can't.  And if that's offensive to say, so be it, because it is a fact, and one that is never, ever going to change.    
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 12:08 AM, G. Gray wrote:
Whenever I get a comment like "Click on the yellow x at the top of the screen,"  I say..."Do me a favor turn your screen off.  Is it off.  What do you see exactly?  OK now you see what I see...now tell me again what to do!"
-
That's an excellent approach, and drives the point home in a perfect demonstration.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

Leedy Diane Bomar
 

Brian,
There are many reasons why this is the most imaginable offensive question.
It is asked by almost every help desk to which I have spoken.
Sometimes, it is said as: "is there someone there that can help?"
Which means "someone with sight" which implies that a blind person is not a ":"someone". Also, if I had this invisible friend, caretaker, babysitter, etc. wouldn't I have already thought to ask for their help? Why do sighted people assume that, we as people who cannot see, have a sighted person at our beckon call. Who pays for this helper?

Most of the time it is the fault of the company that a sighted assistant may be needed because their developers did not consider the needs of non-visual access. I believe in making this their problem, not mine! How will they ever learn that it is not a blindness issue, but a product development/design issue, if they always have a "sighted person" to solve the problem. That is NOT independence or encouraging full inclusion through accessibility.

I am always snarky in my response to this question, try to be humorous, and explain why it is the most insulting offensive question ever! I often tell them that my guide dog can see the screen, but she cannot speak. I am sick and tired of the assumption, especially at help desks, and particularly at accessibility help desks for the person I am calling for assistance wants/expects me to have a sighted person readily available! 
The problem is the lack of accessibility, not the fact that I cannot see the screen. There are so many options in design that light dependence no longer needs to be the only way to access information. I am not less of a person, less worthy of respect or assistance, because my eyes don't work. It is the developer's job to include non-visual access in their products, and I believe that we all need to let them know that.

Many times I may have a blind friend visiting, and the tech help desk person hears the person say something, and immediately asks if that person can get on the phone. I explain that this other person is also totally blind, and immediately they are discounted as that "someone who can help." This question, by far, is the most insulting offensive question, and the most often asked.Why that question is offensive! 

 Diane Bomar

On Mar 5, 2021, at 16:24, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 02:30 PM, Marianne Denning wrote:
I was working with someone who worked for another blindness company and the person asked me if I had a sighted person who could help.
-
I want someone to explain why this question is offensive.

When you're at a help desk, any help desk, the goal is generally to get a fix as quickly as possible.  There are times where having a sighted assistant can greatly speed things along.  There are times when there really is no substitute for sight when it comes to getting maximum speed and minimum fuss identifying what's happening.  Joseph Lee once said to me, in regard to web browsing, that the sighted (which would include me) see a webpage (but this would apply to anything displaying on a screen) as a gestalt, taking it all in at once, and filtering out the irrelevant versus relevant visually without even realizing you're doing so.  A screen reader user goes element by element through unfamiliar territory and cannot "take it all in at once."  Those are simple facts.

If you don't have access to a sighted assistant, then the answer to that query is, "No, I don't have easy access to a sighted assistant."

Asking whether such is available is not meant, not should it be taken, as a slight to someone who's blind.  I cannot imagine that most in the readership here have not, on multiple occasions, had someone who could see around who could "instantly" identify something you've been struggling with for hours such that you want to scream and rend your garments.  Examples of this completely unrelated to the computer abound, too.  My "value added" most of the time is that I can see something that's, sadly, either not accessible or not accessible quickly and easily and could take a screen reader user hours to find because of how a given program/screen is structured.

If your job is to try to fix an issue as quickly as possible you use all the tools at your disposal, and as a help desk tech there are times where a sighted assistant is a really handy tool to have.  If not available, you try another way, but in many instances it will invariably take much longer.  But if you don't ask whether an optional tool, in this case a sighted assistant, might be available you're not doing your job, or at least not doing it well.  
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

G. Gray
 

Whenever I get a comment like "Click on the yellow x at the top of the screen,"  I say..."Do me a favor turn your screen off.  Is it off.  What do you see exactly?  OK now you see what I see...now tell me again what to do!"

 

Listening for that Shout!,
(1 Thessalonians 4:13-18)


George
On 3/5/2021 6:59 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 02:23 PM, David Diamond wrote:
Then there was the one who said constantly, “You see the yellow X at the top of your screen, click on that.” I thought and almost vocalized, “What part of I’m blind are you not getting!”
-
By the way, that would be an entirely appropriate response.

If you're on the help desk for individuals who are blind or visually impaired, the use of phrases that include, "see" in the sense of vision should be nowhere in your vocabulary when asking questions of someone you already know can't.  This is not rocket science, nor should it be tolerated.

Dope slaps when people are being dopes are A-OK, and if you have someone who was accidentally being a dope, which happens more often than one might think, their response is generally a prompt apology.  They recognize they've been inappropriate, even if that was the result of an accidental lapse.  Defending the indefensible is never a good idea.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide




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moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

Sherri
 

The phone number is 800-936-5900.  You can also contact them through Be My Eyes if you use that service.  Hope this helps.

 

Sherri

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 11:03 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:15 PM, David Diamond wrote:

I was just making the point that some should not be working there because they are not good listeners.

-
Indeed.  At the same time, one does have to consider that everyone is a neophyte at whatever they may be doing at one time or another.  And, when it comes to tech support in particular you can get suddenly pulled in to an arena that's not "your usual."

For me, it's not so much that someone makes a mistake or does something thoughtless (as in without thought, rather than with intent), but what they do after that's called to their attention, and that attention calling is best done gently, initially.  But if clear hint after clear hint is ignored, that's when a dope slap is called for.

It was your observation "constantly" that triggered my dope slap comment.  It's easy, sometimes, to forget that you're talking to someone who can't see and you can and do slip back into, "Click the red X, blah, blah, blah."  But if you need to be reminded, more than once, in a given encounter that someone can't see and giving visual directions is inappropriate, you're asleep at the wheel.

One of the very trickiest things to learn how to do as far as listening is coming to know some of the things people regularly give as complaints, where they believe they're dealing with some known issue, but in reality they're asking about another.  It's a kind of "read between the lines" sort of thing, and having been an instructor in the classroom as well as doing lots of tech support I have learned to listen, but with an ear towards figuring out what's wanted as opposed to focusing on the presenting complaint in many cases.  It's something you can't teach, and it's something that makes a big difference.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:15 PM, David Diamond wrote:
I was just making the point that some should not be working there because they are not good listeners.
-
Indeed.  At the same time, one does have to consider that everyone is a neophyte at whatever they may be doing at one time or another.  And, when it comes to tech support in particular you can get suddenly pulled in to an arena that's not "your usual."

For me, it's not so much that someone makes a mistake or does something thoughtless (as in without thought, rather than with intent), but what they do after that's called to their attention, and that attention calling is best done gently, initially.  But if clear hint after clear hint is ignored, that's when a dope slap is called for.

It was your observation "constantly" that triggered my dope slap comment.  It's easy, sometimes, to forget that you're talking to someone who can't see and you can and do slip back into, "Click the red X, blah, blah, blah."  But if you need to be reminded, more than once, in a given encounter that someone can't see and giving visual directions is inappropriate, you're asleep at the wheel.

One of the very trickiest things to learn how to do as far as listening is coming to know some of the things people regularly give as complaints, where they believe they're dealing with some known issue, but in reality they're asking about another.  It's a kind of "read between the lines" sort of thing, and having been an instructor in the classroom as well as doing lots of tech support I have learned to listen, but with an ear towards figuring out what's wanted as opposed to focusing on the presenting complaint in many cases.  It's something you can't teach, and it's something that makes a big difference.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide

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