Date   

moderated Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Tom Behler
 

Thanks, Glenn.

 

Looking back to the beginning of this thread, I realize I should have been clearer about the fact that I’m using Windows 10 here on my main computer.

 

I suspect Windows 10 has a .zip utility in it, just like 7.zip for Windows 7?

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 2:57 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

Hi Tom,

Win PE is made by Microsoft, the PE stands for Preinstallation Environment.

That is what people are booting up to on a Windows installation disk for setting up Windows for the first time, or to boot up to for system repairs.

Microsoft offers it for people to download and use by itself and to customize.

A Blind guy named Carlos, who passed away some time back, made one with audio drivers and NVDA on boot-up and lots of utilities.

So when you boot up, you are on a desktop environment, only it is not your windows, WinPE is loaded into your computer's RAM, and your C-Drive is your system, but it is just there, as if you had pulled your hard drive and plugged it in as a second drive.

So you have full access to all the drive and system files.

You can get on-line and listen to audio in the Win PE environment, or you can do system repairs, or copy your hard drive.

You aren't running your windows, so there is no issue of windows squawking about this or that file is in use.

It has 7Zip on it,so you can use that to zip up your HD, or use one of the image utilities on the CD.

It doesn't have eMail installed, but other than that, and the fact that changes won't be on it when you reboot it, it is like free windows.

Glenn

----- Original Message -----

From: Tom Behler

Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 1:47 PM

Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

Glenn:

 

I need some clarification here:

 

What is WinPE?

 

And, isn’t 7zip for Windows 7?

 

I’m using Windows 10 here.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 12:45 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

Tom,

If you boot to Win PE, you can use 7Zip to zip up your HD and unzip it if you need to at a later time.

Also, when you do this, you can delete two system files that are temp files, and will save you the amount of twice your RAM.

So if you have 4GB of RAM, you can save 8GB by deleting pagefile.sys and hiberfil.sys before zipping up your HD, and windows will recreate those two files on boot-up.

They are just temp files Windows uses as virtual memory.

 

Glenn

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Tom Behler

Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 11:31 AM

Subject: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

Hello.

 

I know this has been addressed before, but could someone suggest an accessible system backup image program that is easy to use independently, and that works well with Jaws?

 

I routinely back up all my files, but would like to be able to back up my complete hard drive if possible.

 

Until now, I’ve always understood that these backup image programs have accessibility issues at certain points, but perhaps I’m wrong.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 11:48 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 08:26 AM, Rick Mladek wrote:

Too obvious to be a mere coincidence...

If you have had this occur, twice, you should be looking at something being wrong with your hardware.

Application software has never, in my decades of experience, corrupted any OS (and I don't count viruses or malware as "application software.")

You are, however, giving people very good advice with regard to having a backup protocol and taking full system image backups on a routine cycle.  The number of things that have the potential to cause a system to crash are numerous, and generally related to people screwing around with the OS itself in ways they shouldn't or drive failure.  Having a backup saves you untold time and grief.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Rick Mladek
 

First I did the download from the site, then simply hit open and install. After this incident, I downloaded and then hit save. Then went to downloads and opened but I will be honest, I've become so anti-2020 version, I only downloaded the 2019 version and all is working properly.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 9:34 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Are you installing from the website, or first downloading the file and using the file to execute the installation? Installing from the file is safer.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rick Mladek
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 8:27 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

And so it goes with JFW... I finally took the leap of Faith and installed the latest update to Jaws 2020 yesterday afternoon. The install corrupted something and I have to uninstall all JFW components and reinstall all from scratch. This is the 2nd time in a year that a JFW install has done something as this. The last time, it corrupted my Operating System and the Entire Hard-Drive was toast and had to be wiped clean and all re-installed. Be sure to have a back-up of your hard-drive before you do any JFW installs... Too obvious to be a mere coincidence...


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave Durber
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 5:39 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Hello Pat:

You could probably make the change Ceigart mentioned, using the registry editor.

Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Murphy" <murphy.patrick42@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, May 2, 2020 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit


Hi,

the group policy editor is only available in windows 10 professional addition.
there is nothing like it in windows 10 home edition.
pat



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rick Mladek
Sent: Saturday 2 May 2020 18:58
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Sieghard,

Where do we find this setting?

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mario
Sent: Saturday, May 2, 2020 12:33 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Sieghard, could you tell us what the group policy item was, or point to the post? I'm curious as to what it might have been.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Saturday 2 May 2020 16:54
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Hello Pat,

I don't wan to minimize the issues you had, but Jaws 2020 has been out for over 6 months and while there will always be certain configurations and systems with various issues, these may not always be 100% the fault of Jaws.
I, for example, had one computer where for over a year I could not use any of the Windows apps like Calculator and in addition to that Jaws would read absolutely nothing in the start menu or the Settings app. I could open Settings and when somebody checked I was told visually everything was fine, I could right arrow and down arrow and focus would move, I could press enter and whatever category I was on opened up and so on, but Jaws was absolutely silent. This was even before Jaws 2020 came out and it was like this with Jaws 2018 and Jaws 2019 and nothing I did including completely uninstalling both versions, deleting all Jaws folders and reinstalling would fix it. At the same time I had another almost identical computer at my business with very similar hardware and all worked fine. Finally I read a post somewhere where another user had the same problem and somehow they either found out or were told to check if a particular item in the group policy editor in Windows 10 Pro was enabled. I checked the same setting and it was disabled on this particular computer, I have no idea why or how, but it was and as soon as I enabled it all worked perfectly. Narrator, by the way, worked just fine in the Settings app, start menu and calculator, it was just Jaws which had the problem and the problem which fixed the issue had nothing to do with Jaws, but was simply a Windows setting.
I mentioned this because it shows how sometimes a problem with Jaws can be extremely specific to one system and be caused by something which is directly not even related to Jaws. I am convinced that if I had wiped the system and reinstalled Windows this would have also fixed the problem, but this happened to be on the PC we use as the main register at my retail store and there is other software on this system which is not quite so easy to reinstall so for the longest time I just put up with it and used Narrator if I wanted to do something in the Settings, I hardly ever use the start menu anyways and when I needed to calculate something I'd just open up Excel instead of using the Calculator. This way I could work around the problem, but it was sure nice when it turned out to be such a simple fix which took me all of 30 seconds to make.

Best regards,
Sieghard

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Saturday, May 2, 2020 7:01 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Hi,

Not surprised you are having trouble. I myself, only recently, had trouble with installing jaws 2020. I had an authorization problem with windows 10.
Like you, i had to uninstall everything and reinstall everything.
Perhaps freedom scientific should look at this version of jaws again, and take the bugs out of it.
God knows what else is wrong that hasn't been discovered yet.
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of ratshtron
Sent: Friday 1 May 2020 16:37
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

I have tried to update to the latest jaws 2020 on a windows 7 32bit system and when I do my system starts rebooting over and over. I get the error that the gdihooks.dll is missing from my computer and to reinstall the software.
I finally got it to work removing all the jaws installations and only installing a 2003 build of 2020. Now, on my laptop running windows 10 had no problems with the 2004.66 update of jaws 2020. go figure!


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
















.


moderated Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Glenn / Lenny
 


Hi Tom,
Win PE is made by Microsoft, the PE stands for Preinstallation Environment.
That is what people are booting up to on a Windows installation disk for setting up Windows for the first time, or to boot up to for system repairs.
Microsoft offers it for people to download and use by itself and to customize.
A Blind guy named Carlos, who passed away some time back, made one with audio drivers and NVDA on boot-up and lots of utilities.
So when you boot up, you are on a desktop environment, only it is not your windows, WinPE is loaded into your computer's RAM, and your C-Drive is your system, but it is just there, as if you had pulled your hard drive and plugged it in as a second drive.
So you have full access to all the drive and system files.
You can get on-line and listen to audio in the Win PE environment, or you can do system repairs, or copy your hard drive.
You aren't running your windows, so there is no issue of windows squawking about this or that file is in use.
It has 7Zip on it,so you can use that to zip up your HD, or use one of the image utilities on the CD.
It doesn't have eMail installed, but other than that, and the fact that changes won't be on it when you reboot it, it is like free windows.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Behler
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Glenn:

 

I need some clarification here:

 

What is WinPE?

 

And, isn’t 7zip for Windows 7?

 

I’m using Windows 10 here.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 12:45 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

Tom,

If you boot to Win PE, you can use 7Zip to zip up your HD and unzip it if you need to at a later time.

Also, when you do this, you can delete two system files that are temp files, and will save you the amount of twice your RAM.

So if you have 4GB of RAM, you can save 8GB by deleting pagefile.sys and hiberfil.sys before zipping up your HD, and windows will recreate those two files on boot-up.

They are just temp files Windows uses as virtual memory.

 

Glenn

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Tom Behler

Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 11:31 AM

Subject: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

Hello.

 

I know this has been addressed before, but could someone suggest an accessible system backup image program that is easy to use independently, and that works well with Jaws?

 

I routinely back up all my files, but would like to be able to back up my complete hard drive if possible.

 

Until now, I’ve always understood that these backup image programs have accessibility issues at certain points, but perhaps I’m wrong.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 11:48 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 08:26 AM, Rick Mladek wrote:

Too obvious to be a mere coincidence...

If you have had this occur, twice, you should be looking at something being wrong with your hardware.

Application software has never, in my decades of experience, corrupted any OS (and I don't count viruses or malware as "application software.")

You are, however, giving people very good advice with regard to having a backup protocol and taking full system image backups on a routine cycle.  The number of things that have the potential to cause a system to crash are numerous, and generally related to people screwing around with the OS itself in ways they shouldn't or drive failure.  Having a backup saves you untold time and grief.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Marie
 

How much space do you need to store the full system backup? I know this depends on what you have on your disk but just for example, say you are using just under 500GB.
 
Marie
 

From: David Griffith
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 9:57 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit
 
I use a solution which is I suppose is 3/4 accessible. Snapshot will allow a fully accessible disc image backup. Provided you can get into Windows at all the restore of the image is also a fully accessible. You simply select the image you want to restore to and Snapshot will simply restart your computer and about 20 minutes later you will hear your screen reader announce your Windows login for the restored image. I have done this several times with success without sighted help. Where it falls down is if your system is in such a state it cannot boot into Windows. The developers provide an ISO file to create a bootable CD drive but of course there is no speech here on that disc. They did tell me what I needed to type once the CD loaded to restore windows but in practice in these situations I have always resorted to sighted help and a fresh windows install.
David Griffith
 

On 3 May 2020, at 17:44, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote:


Tom,
If you boot to Win PE, you can use 7Zip to zip up your HD and unzip it if you need to at a later time.
Also, when you do this, you can delete two system files that are temp files, and will save you the amount of twice your RAM.
So if you have 4GB of RAM, you can save 8GB by deleting pagefile.sys and hiberfil.sys before zipping up your HD, and windows will recreate those two files on boot-up.
They are just temp files Windows uses as virtual memory.
 
Glenn
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Behler
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 11:31 AM
Subject: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit
 

Hello.

 

I know this has been addressed before, but could someone suggest an accessible system backup image program that is easy to use independently, and that works well with Jaws?

 

I routinely back up all my files, but would like to be able to back up my complete hard drive if possible.

 

Until now, I’ve always understood that these backup image programs have accessibility issues at certain points, but perhaps I’m wrong.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 11:48 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 08:26 AM, Rick Mladek wrote:

Too obvious to be a mere coincidence...

If you have had this occur, twice, you should be looking at something being wrong with your hardware.

Application software has never, in my decades of experience, corrupted any OS (and I don't count viruses or malware as "application software.")

You are, however, giving people very good advice with regard to having a backup protocol and taking full system image backups on a routine cycle.  The number of things that have the potential to cause a system to crash are numerous, and generally related to people screwing around with the OS itself in ways they shouldn't or drive failure.  Having a backup saves you untold time and grief.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Tom Behler
 

Glenn:

 

I need some clarification here:

 

What is WinPE?

 

And, isn’t 7zip for Windows 7?

 

I’m using Windows 10 here.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 12:45 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

Tom,

If you boot to Win PE, you can use 7Zip to zip up your HD and unzip it if you need to at a later time.

Also, when you do this, you can delete two system files that are temp files, and will save you the amount of twice your RAM.

So if you have 4GB of RAM, you can save 8GB by deleting pagefile.sys and hiberfil.sys before zipping up your HD, and windows will recreate those two files on boot-up.

They are just temp files Windows uses as virtual memory.

 

Glenn

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Tom Behler

Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 11:31 AM

Subject: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

Hello.

 

I know this has been addressed before, but could someone suggest an accessible system backup image program that is easy to use independently, and that works well with Jaws?

 

I routinely back up all my files, but would like to be able to back up my complete hard drive if possible.

 

Until now, I’ve always understood that these backup image programs have accessibility issues at certain points, but perhaps I’m wrong.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 11:48 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 08:26 AM, Rick Mladek wrote:

Too obvious to be a mere coincidence...

If you have had this occur, twice, you should be looking at something being wrong with your hardware.

Application software has never, in my decades of experience, corrupted any OS (and I don't count viruses or malware as "application software.")

You are, however, giving people very good advice with regard to having a backup protocol and taking full system image backups on a routine cycle.  The number of things that have the potential to cause a system to crash are numerous, and generally related to people screwing around with the OS itself in ways they shouldn't or drive failure.  Having a backup saves you untold time and grief.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Tom Behler
 

Brian:

 

What program are you referring to here?

 

There’s no e-mail history to refer to in relation to your reply, and things are getting confusing.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 1:24 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 01:15 PM, Steve Matzura wrote:

Best fifty bucks you'll ever spend on your computer.

The price is now down to under $40.  Since they give you a 30-day free trial, there's absolutely nothing to lose if you want to try it out.  I'd definitely suggest doing a full system image backup, and then restore, on a non-primary machine if you have a second machine around, just to have had the end to end experience.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Tom Behler
 

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions regarding accessible backup image software.

 

I am not an advanced assistive technology computer user, so I need to be careful in terms of what I choose to do here.

 

But, these suggestions have given me a lot to consider, and I’m saving them for future reference.

 

I will continue to read additional contributions to this thread with interest, and I hope they help others as well.

 

Dr.  Tom Behler from Michigan

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 1:24 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 01:15 PM, Steve Matzura wrote:

Best fifty bucks you'll ever spend on your computer.

The price is now down to under $40.  Since they give you a 30-day free trial, there's absolutely nothing to lose if you want to try it out.  I'd definitely suggest doing a full system image backup, and then restore, on a non-primary machine if you have a second machine around, just to have had the end to end experience.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

Hi Bill,

 

I am not saying this is the problem, but you mentioned Outlook 2010 and I wonder if maybe using a newer and supported version of Office might be better.

I used to have this problem with Jaws crashing when something was not responding a lot under Windows 7, but Jaws rarely crashes any more under Windows 10 at least for me and I don’t even remember if it did when moving emails to a different folder.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 10:16 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

As I said, Brian, if I try to perform any keystroke after getting one of these messages, JAWS stops running, and I must perform an ALT plus CONTROL plus J command to restart JAWS. This usually happens with Outlook 2010, when trying to move messages between folders. I have tried both a JAWS repair and a JAWS reinstall, and neither solved the problem.

 

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 9:34 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 12:09 PM, Bill White wrote:

If I get one of those messages from Windows 10 saying that a program is not responding

Have you tried ALT+Tabbing to something else and waiting it out?  I get the occasional "Not Responding" message, too, but it almost always resolves itself given sufficient time (which can be a few seconds to a few minutes).  Everything else keeps working.

Now, if it's JAWS itself that goes into "Not responding" mode, you're really kinda stuck.  I've actually never had a screen reader go into that state, but I can't see any reason why they'd be immune to it and I imagine some have landed in this quandary.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 01:44 PM, John Covici wrote:
I had to use Aira in the recovery step, but it did work!!
And what, precisely is Aira?   Sighted assistance.

That's an excellent variant, but it is still sighted assistance.  
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Garbage spoken when laptop boots up

 

Is this at the logon screen or after you put in your password or PIN and Jaws speaks at the desktop?

You might want to check Jaws speech history and see if what was spoken is there and post it.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of kevin meyers
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 10:32 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Garbage spoken when laptop boots up

 

Hello,

 

I’m using latest version of windows10 and recent version of Jaws2020.

 

When my laptop boots up Jaws reads a string of garbage. Is this common? Is there a way to stop this from happening?

 

Cheers,

 

Kevin

 


moderated Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

dennis
 

i just had to completely uninstall jaws 16 2019 and 2020. the 2020 did something to my system and i had to use revo uninstaller to get rid of everything where i could re install them.

On 5/3/2020 12:15 PM, Bill White wrote:

As I said, Brian, if I try to perform any keystroke after getting one of these messages, JAWS stops running, and I must perform an ALT plus CONTROL plus J command to restart JAWS. This usually happens with Outlook 2010, when trying to move messages between folders. I have tried both a JAWS repair and a JAWS reinstall, and neither solved the problem.

 

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 9:34 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 12:09 PM, Bill White wrote:

If I get one of those messages from Windows 10 saying that a program is not responding

Have you tried ALT+Tabbing to something else and waiting it out?  I get the occasional "Not Responding" message, too, but it almost always resolves itself given sufficient time (which can be a few seconds to a few minutes).  Everything else keeps working.

Now, if it's JAWS itself that goes into "Not responding" mode, you're really kinda stuck.  I've actually never had a screen reader go into that state, but I can't see any reason why they'd be immune to it and I imagine some have landed in this quandary.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss

--
Dennis Cornelison

Virus-free. www.avast.com


moderated Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

John Covici
 

I use the paid version of this product and was able to back up all my
internal drives to an external drive. I do it every night using
incremental backups, so (and I have had this happen) if Jaws goes
south on me, I used the recovery media to get my system back. I had
to use Aira in the recovery step, but it did work!! If the system
still works you can do all the recover parameters and when you boot
the recovery cd, it will do things and eventually reboot all by
itself. I am glad I have Aira!

On Sun, 03 May 2020 12:41:23 -0400,
Brian Vogel wrote:

[1 <text/plain; utf-8 (quoted-printable)>]
Tom,

There are a number of options.   I am going to qualify what follows with:  I am only interested in accessibility with regard to taking the backup, not doing the recovery.  I have been in a long recent discussion about this and there is nothing short of "extreme geek measures" I am not willing to take, and I doubt most would be able to take, to make a recovery process accessible.  Screen readers run under operating systems, and during a recovery you do not actually have a full-blown Windows instance running.  That's what you're trying to recover.  I fully expect that if recovery is necessary a sighted assistant will be as well.  If anyone can present a backup and recovery suite that is fully accessible, on both ends, even if it's just for taking a system image and later recovering it, I'm all ears.  So far no one has.

Macrium Reflect Free is not 100% accessible, but it is entirely accessible for setting up a system image recovery then using that setup on-demand to take the actual image.  For myself, I always do a full system image, as those are the fastest to recover from.  You need to take (as you said you do) user data backups between your full system image backups if you're generating enough new files that you'd want to commit hara-kiri were you to lose them and/or have to do the work to re-create them.

*Using Macrium Reflect Free with a Screen Reader* ( https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1MaK3Pe-eI8P3dRJOS2T9ulY3ykmjKlKD )

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
~ Lawrence Krauss



[2 <text/html; utf-8 (quoted-printable)>]
--
Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is:
How do
you spend it?

John Covici wb2una
covici@...


moderated Garbage spoken when laptop boots up

kevin meyers
 

Hello,

 

I’m using latest version of windows10 and recent version of Jaws2020.

 

When my laptop boots up Jaws reads a string of garbage. Is this common? Is there a way to stop this from happening?

 

Cheers,

 

Kevin

 


moderated Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 01:15 PM, Steve Matzura wrote:
Best fifty bucks you'll ever spend on your computer.
The price is now down to under $40.  Since they give you a 30-day free trial, there's absolutely nothing to lose if you want to try it out.  I'd definitely suggest doing a full system image backup, and then restore, on a non-primary machine if you have a second machine around, just to have had the end to end experience.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Blank Line Keystroke

Mike B
 

Hi Glenn,
 
You know, I use the control down arrow keystroke so seldom that I didn't even think about it, but in Word this keystroke doesn't do what I'm needing, at least in a document that doesn't have the formatting stripped out.  I'll try it with a document with the formatting stripped out a little later and see how it works.  Thanks much.

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.
 *My body has absorbed so much soap and disinfectant lately that when I pee it cleans the toilet.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: Blank Line Keystroke

Hi Mike,
That one is so basic, I figured you knew about it.
That is why I thought you needed something more obscure as the \N.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike B
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: Blank Line Keystroke

Hi Nermin,
 
Thank you very much.  What's weird is this works in Notepad, but not in Word 2010, at least on both my Win7 & 10 systems.  Thanks again, this will really save time from having to down arrow 1 line at a time to find the next blank line.

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.
 *My body has absorbed so much soap and disinfectant lately that when I pee it cleans the toilet.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: Blank Line Keystroke

Hi Mike,
 
try control+down or up arrow for next and previous. In most applications, this should do what you want.
 
Regards,
Nermin


moderated Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Bill White
 

As I said, Brian, if I try to perform any keystroke after getting one of these messages, JAWS stops running, and I must perform an ALT plus CONTROL plus J command to restart JAWS. This usually happens with Outlook 2010, when trying to move messages between folders. I have tried both a JAWS repair and a JAWS reinstall, and neither solved the problem.

 

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 9:34 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 12:09 PM, Bill White wrote:

If I get one of those messages from Windows 10 saying that a program is not responding

Have you tried ALT+Tabbing to something else and waiting it out?  I get the occasional "Not Responding" message, too, but it almost always resolves itself given sufficient time (which can be a few seconds to a few minutes).  Everything else keeps working.

Now, if it's JAWS itself that goes into "Not responding" mode, you're really kinda stuck.  I've actually never had a screen reader go into that state, but I can't see any reason why they'd be immune to it and I imagine some have landed in this quandary.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Steve Matzura
 

Terabyte Drive Image Backup and Restore Suite is 100% accessible beginning to end, including the recovery disk. There's an option to set in an INI file when building the recovery disk that will automatically start Narrator when said disk is booted. Works a treat, as they say. Best fifty bucks you'll ever spend on your computer. http://www.terabyteunlimited.com


On 5/3/2020 12:57 PM, David Griffith wrote:
I use a solution which is I suppose is 3/4 accessible. Snapshot will allow a fully accessible disc image backup. Provided you can get into Windows at all the restore of the image is also a fully accessible. You simply select the image you want to restore to and Snapshot will simply restart your computer and about 20 minutes later you will hear your screen reader announce your Windows login for the restored image. I have done this several times with success without sighted help. Where it falls down is if your system is in such a state it cannot boot into Windows. The developers provide an ISO file to create a bootable CD drive but of course there is no speech here on that disc. They did tell me what I needed to type once the CD loaded to restore windows but in practice in these situations I have always resorted to sighted help and a fresh windows install.
David Griffith


On 3 May 2020, at 17:44, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote:


Tom,
If you boot to Win PE, you can use 7Zip to zip up your HD and unzip it if you need to at a later time.
Also, when you do this, you can delete two system files that are temp files, and will save you the amount of twice your RAM.
So if you have 4GB of RAM, you can save 8GB by deleting pagefile.sys and hiberfil.sys before zipping up your HD, and windows will recreate those two files on boot-up.
They are just temp files Windows uses as virtual memory.
 
Glenn
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Behler
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 11:31 AM
Subject: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Hello.

 

I know this has been addressed before, but could someone suggest an accessible system backup image program that is easy to use independently, and that works well with Jaws?

 

I routinely back up all my files, but would like to be able to back up my complete hard drive if possible.

 

Until now, I’ve always understood that these backup image programs have accessibility issues at certain points, but perhaps I’m wrong.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 11:48 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 08:26 AM, Rick Mladek wrote:

Too obvious to be a mere coincidence...

If you have had this occur, twice, you should be looking at something being wrong with your hardware.

Application software has never, in my decades of experience, corrupted any OS (and I don't count viruses or malware as "application software.")

You are, however, giving people very good advice with regard to having a backup protocol and taking full system image backups on a routine cycle.  The number of things that have the potential to cause a system to crash are numerous, and generally related to people screwing around with the OS itself in ways they shouldn't or drive failure.  Having a backup saves you untold time and grief.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Blank Line Keystroke

Mike B
 

Hi Adrian,
 
I've been trying various find combinations for the blank line, but what I'm working with has all formatting stripped out, so what I'm looking for is to get from a blank line on top of a block of text to the next blank line at the bottom of a block of text.  Thank you very much for these tips, they'll come in handy for a different type of Find & Replace I do daily.

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.
 *My body has absorbed so much soap and disinfectant lately that when I pee it cleans the toilet.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 6:31 AM
Subject: Re: Blank Line Keystroke

Mike,

 

You could search for two paragraph symbols in a row. So, control-f, and type in the edit field: ^p^p

 

Sometimes another character appears between paragraph signs, such as a tab or a space. When I’m cleaning up documents for editing purposes, I will do the following in this sequence:

Search for ^t (tab) and replace with space.

Search for ^p space and replace with ^p

Then search for ^p^p

 

It can get more complicated, but that’s the gist.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 8:35 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Blank Line Keystroke

 

Hi Nermin,

 

Thank you very much.  What's weird is this works in Notepad, but not in Word 2010, at least on both my Win7 & 10 systems.  Thanks again, this will really save time from having to down arrow 1 line at a time to find the next blank line.


Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.
 *My body has absorbed so much soap and disinfectant lately that when I pee it cleans the toilet.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 3:19 AM

Subject: Re: Blank Line Keystroke

 

Hi Mike,

 

try control+down or up arrow for next and previous. In most applications, this should do what you want.

 

Regards,

Nermin


moderated Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Glenn / Lenny
 


I should add that what I'm using right now was unzipped from a backup when I got a new HD.
I have a clean fresh install of my system and then I booted to a talking Win PE  and used 7Zip to make a zip copy of everything.
7Zip is very good at digging down into sub folders to archive everything.
And like I mentioned before, deleting those two files will help a lot.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

I use a solution which is I suppose is 3/4 accessible. Snapshot will allow a fully accessible disc image backup. Provided you can get into Windows at all the restore of the image is also a fully accessible. You simply select the image you want to restore to and Snapshot will simply restart your computer and about 20 minutes later you will hear your screen reader announce your Windows login for the restored image. I have done this several times with success without sighted help. Where it falls down is if your system is in such a state it cannot boot into Windows. The developers provide an ISO file to create a bootable CD drive but of course there is no speech here on that disc. They did tell me what I needed to type once the CD loaded to restore windows but in practice in these situations I have always resorted to sighted help and a fresh windows install.
David Griffith


On 3 May 2020, at 17:44, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote:


Tom,
If you boot to Win PE, you can use 7Zip to zip up your HD and unzip it if you need to at a later time.
Also, when you do this, you can delete two system files that are temp files, and will save you the amount of twice your RAM.
So if you have 4GB of RAM, you can save 8GB by deleting pagefile.sys and hiberfil.sys before zipping up your HD, and windows will recreate those two files on boot-up.
They are just temp files Windows uses as virtual memory.
 
Glenn
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Behler
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 11:31 AM
Subject: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

Hello.

I know this has been addressed before, but could someone suggest an accessible system backup image program that is easy to use independently, and that works well with Jaws?

I routinely back up all my files, but would like to be able to back up my complete hard drive if possible.

Until now, I’ve always understood that these backup image programs have accessibility issues at certain points, but perhaps I’m wrong.

Tom Behler

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 11:48 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 08:26 AM, Rick Mladek wrote:

Too obvious to be a mere coincidence...

If you have had this occur, twice, you should be looking at something being wrong with your hardware.

Application software has never, in my decades of experience, corrupted any OS (and I don't count viruses or malware as "application software.")

You are, however, giving people very good advice with regard to having a backup protocol and taking full system image backups on a routine cycle.  The number of things that have the potential to cause a system to crash are numerous, and generally related to people screwing around with the OS itself in ways they shouldn't or drive failure.  Having a backup saves you untold time and grief.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Accessible System Backup Image software, (WAS) the latest update to jaws 2020 giving me a fit

 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 12:57 PM, David Griffith wrote:
Provided you can get into Windows at all the restore of the image is also a fully accessible.
Every time I hear this proviso I want to scream.  Of course, every package I could recommend would have this be true, but one is virtually never, ever restoring a system image from under a running Windows instance unless you have what I call "an experimental machine" where you want to be able to install and test all sorts of new software but then want to be able to restore it back to its baseline state.

Most recoveries are due to catastrophic failure of some sort, and most often main drive failure (whether HDD or SSD), and don't occur under a running Windows instance.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss