Date   

Re: VFO Tech Support, was: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

Shannon
 

Here here to that. It happens to me every day. Hey, what's going on over here could you come look is a frequent question out of my mouth.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 18, 2017, at 6:23 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

It is the great lie to believe that sight may not be important or critical in solving certain problems quickly and efficiently.

I have been, and probably will be, castigated for stating that but it's true.

Stating the above says nothing, positive or negative, about the competence of someone who's blind or visually impaired.  What it does say is that you sometimes face the choice of taking forever to get through something that someone who sees literally sees in real time.  When dealing with a primarily visual medium it only makes sense to take that into account when you're in a bind that you need to get out of as promptly as possible.

There is no shame, and no weakness, implied in asking for the most effective assistance one can get in any given situation where one needs it.  If one has the luxury of time, and wants to learn something for the sake of learning it, then go methodically plowing through it (and this applies regardless of whether you have vision or not).  But if I'm in a work situation and I need something resolved that sight would most likely make faster, it is absolutely not the job of technical support to treat the request as though it were a personal aspersion and they should, in fact, know this themselves if they've been at the job for more than a brief period of time.
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


Re: saying graphic as i arrow up and down a file list

Tyler Spivey
 

I'll explain what this is and how to fix it.

This is JAWS trying to give a label to unknown graphics automatically. If it doesn't know what to call something, it will use the word graphic followed by a number.
This can be disabled. Personally when I use JAWS, I prefer to do this for all applications.

These are not web graphics.

We can try changing the default graphic verbosity for JAWS.
The easiest (though not the only) way to do this is through the Startup Wizard.

1. Activate the JAWS window with Insert+j.
2. From the Help menu, select Startup Wizard.
3. Press enter until you hear Verbosity Settings.
4. Tab until you hear Graphic Verbosity, and set it to labeled graphics.
5. Press enter until the Startup Wizard disappears.

That should solve it, unless overridden by an application specific setting (which may have been changed in Settings Center or with JAWS key+v).

On 5/17/2017 1:35 AM, Jed Barton wrote:
Hey guys,
Curious if anyone has seen this, not sure what it is. In 1 of my
programs, i am going to open a file. Si i go to file open, and find
the location. As i'm arrowing up and down my file list, before every
file, it says sever graphics, something like graphic 244, graphic 212,
as an example. It's really annoying, any ideas what it could be?

Thanks,
Jed


Re: VFO Tech Support, was: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

Carolyn Arnold <4carolyna@...>
 

My husband says essentially what you do, Brian. He couldn't believe a lot of stuff could happen at first - blew his mind to talk to Richard Oehm.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 7:33 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: VFO Tech Support, was: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 04:27 pm, Randy Barnett wrote:


I do most anything I need too but you are right there is no doubt that sight helps and is critical in some situations.

Thank you very much for reflecting back what I had tried to communicate. It makes me confident that I hit my target.

This is definitely not about encouraging dependence or questioning an individual's abilities. It's really is a tool to situation feature matching exercise when time is of the essence.

As an aside, it's been interesting to me over time as I've read folks who are blind and who are computer programmers. Having been one I would never, ever have thought that this would be possible while retaining one's sanity at the same time. I was wrong, and it's fascinating to see both the similarities and differences in how the whole task is approached depending on an individual's sensory palette.
--
Brian Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit



Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


Re: VFO Tech Support, was: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

Carolyn Arnold <4carolyna@...>
 

Right, Brian - it is just a matter of reality. She needs to learn to live with it, live, laugh - it's a big world.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 7:24 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: VFO Tech Support, was: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

It is the great lie to believe that sight may not be important or critical in solving certain problems quickly and efficiently.

I have been, and probably will be, castigated for stating that but it's true.

Stating the above says nothing, positive or negative, about the competence of someone who's blind or visually impaired. What it does say is that you sometimes face the choice of taking forever to get through something that someone who sees literally sees in real time. When dealing with a primarily visual medium it only makes sense to take that into account when you're in a bind that you need to get out of as promptly as possible.

There is no shame, and no weakness, implied in asking for the most effective assistance one can get in any given situation where one needs it. If one has the luxury of time, and wants to learn something for the sake of learning it, then go methodically plowing through it (and this applies regardless of whether you have vision or not). But if I'm in a work situation and I need something resolved that sight would most likely make faster, it is absolutely not the job of technical support to treat the request as though it were a personal aspersion and they should, in fact, know this themselves if they've been at the job for more than a brief period of time.
--
Brian Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit



Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


Re: major warning about c cleaner and windows 10

 

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 02:19 pm, Alan Robbins wrote:
For me and MS accessibility it is the registery cleaner that was of concern

The long and the short of it is that registry cleaners are the spawn of Satan and snake oil.  One need only look at reputable computer support related forums and the technical press to see this repeated again and again.

I am actually kind of surprised that CCleaner has not dropped the registry cleaner feature, even though it was one of their initial claims to fame when registry cleaning was thought to be helpful (though it may not have been even then).  I still absolutely love this tool in all other respects.
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


Re: VFO Tech Support, was: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

Mike B. <mb69mach1@...>
 


Hi Brian,
 
I've been totally blind for 36 years out of the 59 years on this planet, & no truer words have ever been spoken! Everything you said is 100% accurate, & noone should take issue with what you stated.
5Take care.
Mike
Sent from my iBarstool.  Go Dodgers!

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: VFO Tech Support, was: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

It is the great lie to believe that sight may not be important or critical in solving certain problems quickly and efficiently.

I have been, and probably will be, castigated for stating that but it's true.

Stating the above says nothing, positive or negative, about the competence of someone who's blind or visually impaired.  What it does say is that you sometimes face the choice of taking forever to get through something that someone who sees literally sees in real time.  When dealing with a primarily visual medium it only makes sense to take that into account when you're in a bind that you need to get out of as promptly as possible.

There is no shame, and no weakness, implied in asking for the most effective assistance one can get in any given situation where one needs it.  If one has the luxury of time, and wants to learn something for the sake of learning it, then go methodically plowing through it (and this applies regardless of whether you have vision or not).  But if I'm in a work situation and I need something resolved that sight would most likely make faster, it is absolutely not the job of technical support to treat the request as though it were a personal aspersion and they should, in fact, know this themselves if they've been at the job for more than a brief period of time.
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


Re: Problem with Firefox constantly refreshing and Jaws

Mike B. <mb69mach1@...>
 


Hi Bill,
 
Here's what did it for him.
JAWS won't stop JAVA script refreshes.  Do the following:
Open options, alt t then o.
Wait a moment.  Then tab once.
Press end.  You will move to advanced.
Tab until you hear a setting that says something like warn me when a site tries to redirect or refresh the page. 
It's a check box.  Check it with the space bar.
There is no ok button.  Changes take immediate effect.  You don't have to close anything. 
Go to a page where you are having the problem and you no longer should.
 
Gene
Take care.
Mike
Sent from my iBarstool.  Go Dodgers!

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill White
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: Problem with Firefox constantly refreshing and Jaws

How did you fix the Java refreshes?
----- Original Message -----
From: Cristóbal
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: Problem with Firefox constantly refreshing and Jaws

Fixed it. Had to do with Java refreshes.

Thanks,

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Problem with Firefox constantly refreshing and Jaws

 

Cristóbal,

            Have you tried to do what you're doing with at least one other browser, and preferably two?   I ask not because I don' think it should ultimately work in Firefox, but this could be a Firefox issue, a JAWS issue, or a webpage coding issue.   If this works under another browser we can eliminate (or at least really doubt) both the webpage coding and JAWS issues.

--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of detection engine 15436 (20170518) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of detection engine 15439 (20170518) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


Re: VFO Tech Support, was: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 04:27 pm, Randy Barnett wrote:
I do most anything I need too but you are right there is no doubt that sight helps and is critical in some situations.

Thank you very much for reflecting back what I had tried to communicate.  It makes me confident that I hit my target.

This is definitely not about encouraging dependence or questioning an individual's abilities.  It's really is a tool to situation feature matching exercise when time is of the essence. 

As an aside, it's been interesting to me over time as I've read folks who are blind and who are computer programmers.  Having been one I would never, ever have thought that this would be possible while retaining one's sanity at the same time.  I was wrong, and it's fascinating to see both the similarities and differences in how the whole task is approached depending on an individual's sensory palette.
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


Re: VFO Tech Support, was: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

Randy Barnett <randy@...>
 

I do most anything I need too but you are right there is no doubt that sight helps and is critical in some situations.

On 5/18/2017 4:23 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
It is the great lie to believe that sight may not be important or critical in solving certain problems quickly and efficiently.

I have been, and probably will be, castigated for stating that but it's true.

Stating the above says nothing, positive or negative, about the competence of someone who's blind or visually impaired.  What it does say is that you sometimes face the choice of taking forever to get through something that someone who sees literally sees in real time.  When dealing with a primarily visual medium it only makes sense to take that into account when you're in a bind that you need to get out of as promptly as possible.

There is no shame, and no weakness, implied in asking for the most effective assistance one can get in any given situation where one needs it.  If one has the luxury of time, and wants to learn something for the sake of learning it, then go methodically plowing through it (and this applies regardless of whether you have vision or not).  But if I'm in a work situation and I need something resolved that sight would most likely make faster, it is absolutely not the job of technical support to treat the request as though it were a personal aspersion and they should, in fact, know this themselves if they've been at the job for more than a brief period of time.
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.



Re: VFO Tech Support, was: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

It is the great lie to believe that sight may not be important or critical in solving certain problems quickly and efficiently.

I have been, and probably will be, castigated for stating that but it's true.

Stating the above says nothing, positive or negative, about the competence of someone who's blind or visually impaired.  What it does say is that you sometimes face the choice of taking forever to get through something that someone who sees literally sees in real time.  When dealing with a primarily visual medium it only makes sense to take that into account when you're in a bind that you need to get out of as promptly as possible.

There is no shame, and no weakness, implied in asking for the most effective assistance one can get in any given situation where one needs it.  If one has the luxury of time, and wants to learn something for the sake of learning it, then go methodically plowing through it (and this applies regardless of whether you have vision or not).  But if I'm in a work situation and I need something resolved that sight would most likely make faster, it is absolutely not the job of technical support to treat the request as though it were a personal aspersion and they should, in fact, know this themselves if they've been at the job for more than a brief period of time.
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


Re: Problem with Firefox constantly refreshing and Jaws

Bill White <billwhite92701@...>
 


How did you fix the Java refreshes?
----- Original Message -----
From: Cristóbal
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: Problem with Firefox constantly refreshing and Jaws

Fixed it. Had to do with Java refreshes.

Thanks,

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Problem with Firefox constantly refreshing and Jaws

 

Cristóbal,

            Have you tried to do what you're doing with at least one other browser, and preferably two?   I ask not because I don' think it should ultimately work in Firefox, but this could be a Firefox issue, a JAWS issue, or a webpage coding issue.   If this works under another browser we can eliminate (or at least really doubt) both the webpage coding and JAWS issues.

--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of detection engine 15436 (20170518) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of detection engine 15439 (20170518) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


VFO Tech Support, was: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

Hi,

 

Well, just now I must say I had a pretty negative experience with tech support for VFO. I don't want to name the female support person I spoke with, but I asked her if they also had support people that are sighted because my Jaws 18 on this PC suddenly decided not to let me read/review certain information with the Jaws cursor in some applications I use which just a few days ago I could read/review. This is in Sage 50 which I have been using for years and years. In this program when I enter the information from an invoice there is an area beneath the spreadsheet like table where I put quantity, description, cost, tax code etc. where it displays the subtotal, the total amount of tax and the total. I could always go there with the Jaws cursor and find these amounts, now I can't. I only asked if there was sighted support because a sighted person of course could see immediately what I am talking about. To make a long story short, this young lady told me that just because she and the other support staff was blind or visually  impaired they were less competent and she did so in a tone which meant she had her panties in a very tight wad and apparently was very offended that I asked for sighted help. I explained to her that I of course was also blind and did not imply she was not competent but simply that my issue could be better explained to somebody who could in fact see that part of the screen you could not get to with Jaws. I explained that I also knew to some degree what I was talking about since I was a Jaws user for 28 years at which point she basically laughed at me and told me Jaws was not even around 28 years ago. She told me that she had been with Freedom Scientific since 2001 and Jaws had only been around since 1998 later she said 1995. I just said that there was life before Windows and that I didn't necessarily mean I was a Jaws for Windows user for 28 years, but a Jaws user. I guess she may need a lesson in the corporate history of VFO/Freedom Scientific/Henter-Joyce.

Anyways, this is just another example how different experiences can be, you can get somebody with tons of experience in basic day-to-day stuff, then you can get somebody with excellent training but little experience and you somtimes get really lucky and you get somebody who has a ton of experience and also a bunch of excellent training.

 

Regards,

Sieghard

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:55 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 12:37 pm, Carolyn Arnold wrote:

My experience with the now, VFO Technical Support has been world class.

I actually haven't had need to contact technical support since the acquisition of FS by VFO.  I hasten to add that my observation about many technical support reps being neither technical nor supportive was broad and general, not aimed at VFO in any way.

There are some really marvelous tech support folks out there, and when I get one I make sure they know it and if I'm surveyed afterward, whether on the phone after a session or by e-mail later, I make sure that whoever is collecting these knows it, too.   The same, of course, applies on the opposite end of the spectrum, too.  If someone's "fair to middlin'" then I may or may not respond to a survey. 
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


Re: Problem with Firefox constantly refreshing and Jaws

Cristóbal
 

Fixed it. Had to do with Java refreshes.

Thanks,

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Problem with Firefox constantly refreshing and Jaws

 

Cristóbal,

            Have you tried to do what you're doing with at least one other browser, and preferably two?   I ask not because I don' think it should ultimately work in Firefox, but this could be a Firefox issue, a JAWS issue, or a webpage coding issue.   If this works under another browser we can eliminate (or at least really doubt) both the webpage coding and JAWS issues.

--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


Re: major warning about c cleaner and windows 10

Alan Robbins
 

Brian,

 

For me and MS accessibility it is the registery cleaner that was of concern

 

Al

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 3:19 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: major warning about c cleaner and windows 10

 

I've been using CCleaner (not the registry cleaner option - I never use those) for disc cleanup, browser cache cleanup, and a number of it's other tidying functions since the XP days (I think, I know since Windows 7) and use it routinely under Windows 10 on multiple machines, both 32 and 64 bit, and under every Version of Windows 10 Home 64-bit and Windows 10 Pro 32-bit that's been issued so far.

It has not caused any issues for me.   Given the long history of this product and the lack of any widely reported issues with it this would indicate what was experienced was idiosyncratic in some way.  That's not "blaming the user" either, it's just an observable thing.  If CCleaner were taking down Windows 10 systems with any frequency the technical press would have been all over it by now.  It would almost amount to a scandal.
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 12:37 pm, Carolyn Arnold wrote:
My experience with the now, VFO Technical Support has been world class.

I actually haven't had need to contact technical support since the acquisition of FS by VFO.  I hasten to add that my observation about many technical support reps being neither technical nor supportive was broad and general, not aimed at VFO in any way.

There are some really marvelous tech support folks out there, and when I get one I make sure they know it and if I'm surveyed afterward, whether on the phone after a session or by e-mail later, I make sure that whoever is collecting these knows it, too.   The same, of course, applies on the opposite end of the spectrum, too.  If someone's "fair to middlin'" then I may or may not respond to a survey. 
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

Carolyn Arnold <4carolyna@...>
 

My experience with the now, VFO Technical Support has been world class.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 11:55 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 08:31 am, Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) wrote:


I’ll bet a nickel I’ve been using PC’s longer than the last twit to whom I spoke, but there’s one in every crowd.

When it comes to technical support in general my observation over the course of decades is that far too many who are sitting behind those phones are neither technically proficient nor supportive.

--
Brian Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit



Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns

 

Shannon,

          I'm not Ted, but I'll venture he's referring to VLC Media Player, though I don't know what he's referring to by "the tabs" in the context of VLC.  I will be curious to see his joint response, which I'm sure will be forthcoming.

--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns

Shannon
 

Hi Ted,
With all the new terminology that I am learning, could you tell me what you
mean by (see VLC)?
There are so many different things in JAWS and the feature names are not
familiar to me. I get lost in all the new words.

ThanksShannon

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted
(CHFS DMS)
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 2:22 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns

I Believe the tabs also work (see VLC). It shows controls you can't see any
other way. Wish it knew what they were!

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 4:54 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns

Hi,
There are two touch cursor navigation modes: basic and advanced. The basic
mode will let you navigate controls within an app (left and right arrows),
while advanced mode will let you navigate through object hierarchy/GUI
element tree structure.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 1:45 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns

No, This isn't the reason it isn't finding the controls. Rotor is only used
in Gesture mode. This is, I believe only applicable when using an actual
touch screen.
Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shannon" <shannon@bartchroofing.com>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns


Bill,
This is kind of cool. It could find some of the controls I know are
there but can't reach. It doesn't find all of them though.
I just popped into jaws 40 min mode to give this a brief test run. The
arrow keys and the number pad tab and shift tab move this guy around
but I heard the numpad say something about rotering through different
kinds of controls.
I didn't know what that meant. Is that why it can't find the other
things I know are there? They are different from the ones it did find?
Mostly it found buttons and headers.
Thanks for the info.
Shannon
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Mario
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 2:55 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns

Bill, so when using the touch cursor, there's no need to use the arrow
keys, right? I'm asking because I really don't know how to use it.

-------- Original Message --------
From: Bill White [mailto:billwhite92701@dslextreme.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 3:41 PM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns

Hi, Shannon. To activate the Touch Cursor:

1. Open the program you want to navigate.

2.

Press SHIFT plus the plus sign on the Number Pad, or if using laptop
layout,

SHIFT+CAPS LOCK+SEMICOLON



Once the Touch Cursor is active, use TAB and SHIFT plus TAB to
navigate between the various controls. When you find a control you
want to activate, press SPACE BAR.

Bill White

Billwhite92701@dslextreme.com



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Shannon
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 12:32 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns



Oh, this could be the thing I am looking for. These three programs
that are really giving me trouble are just like that! They have
buttons and pull downs and menues that are not tab, shift, tab Ctrl
Tab or arrow key reachable.

To get to them the mouse find command was hit or miss and mostly missed.

Any quicky pointers on this nifty little thing? I always wondered what
perspective was being read when I used the number pad with JAWS? It
never seamed to be doing what I thought it should. We uses the numpad
for the mouse. So If this little thing is like a mouse only not a
mouse, how do you control it? Can you click when you find it?

Thanks

Shannon



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Randy Barnett
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 2:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns



There are basically 3 cursors. The regular PC cursor that is the
default and used most often. it navigates the controls using tab and
arrow keys. the second is the Jaws cursor that moves the mouse pointer
with the arrow keys.
this is usually only used when PC cursor wont work. the touch cursor
was Jaws fix for windows using things that don't work with the first
two cursors. It is used with the left right arrow keys. I only started
using the touch cursor in windows 10. It is not as complicated as it
sounds once you have used them for a wile.
On 5/17/2017 12:01 PM, Shannon wrote:

That is the second time I have heard about this touch curser?

So Jaws has 4 kinds of cursers? Jaws curser,virtual curser PC curser
Mouse over lay, and now a Touch curser?

Oh boy. What is a touch curser for? If that is for a tablet then I can
not worry about it. I don't have one of those.

Audio ducking sounds like a good thing. I can't tell you or most
likely, I don't have to tell you, how annoying and difficult to deal
with the sounds from a web page while useing a screen reader at the same
time.



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 1:53 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns



Hi,

At least for now, Window-Eyes will work on Windows 10 (including the
latest release which is Creators Update), but that's not always going
to be so in the future. There are certain features introduced in later
JAWS releases that makes Windows 10 and universal apps a bit easier to
use, the most important of which is touch cursor (JAWS 15). There are
also features that takes advantage of Windows 8.x and 10 functionality
such as audio ducking (JAWS 18); regarding audio ducking, it has
received mixed reviews.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Shannon
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 11:43 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns



Randy ,

You know, I strongly suspected that to be the case. I was too afraid
to get Win 10 when they were offering it so I didn't. Sigh.

Too many things could have gone wrong and then what would I do?

Now I am stuck with it. And now it looks like there is a newer version
coming out? Creator?

Oh boy!

Thanks

Shannon

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Randy Barnett
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns



Its windows 8.1! Universally disliked. :) Just my opinion but win 10
is better than win 8.1 and I dont care for win 10 all that much. But
to be fair it isnt terrible either I just think win 7 is better.
On 5/17/2017 10:42 AM, Shannon wrote:

I am running windows 8.1.

I am not a big fan of it either. Actually I am not sure what exactly I
don't like. This computer has been goofy since I got it. Not sure if
it was Windows or WE but it gives me fits all the time in all the
programs mentioned. Don't really know which is the culprit.



Thanks

Shannon

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Randy Barnett
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 12:27 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns



Jaws works with office 2010 pretty well. Surfing the web and doing
most tasks. Witch version of windows do you have at work? win 7 is my
preference and most business's still use it.
On 5/17/2017 10:19 AM, Dennis L wrote:

Jaws works fine with office 2010. It can surf the web fine.






From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Shannon
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 1:01 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns



Good morning,

I am a potential new user of JAWS. I would be one of many conversions
from WindowEyes.

I have downloaded the trial of JAWS 18 and pretty concerned about what
it can and cannot do.

I know that there is a large learning curve I will have to go through,
and that is only one of my concerns.

I have been reading the list for the last few days and a few things
mentioned by others concern me.

I also use here at work Office 2010, Outlook, Word and Excel all the time.

I saw a mention of excel not working well with JAWS? Is that true?
That would be a deal breaker for me.

I use spread sheets every single day to do my job. I also use on a
daily basis the MS Query feature. Will JAWS handle the queries?

I make mail merge documents frequently and they tie to the MS Databases.



Will Jaws work with outlook 2010? I have over 10 different email
profiles set up and I need access to them.

Does JAWS have a way to search the screen for text or buttons to be
clicked by the mouse or a "HotSpot" feature as WE did/does? I use that
feature everyday along with custom scripts to get access to the time
keeping software programs.

The language in the control panel seams so foreign to me. I can't
tell, but it seems as if Jaws acknowledges 4 kinds of cursers? A
virtual curser, a JAWS curser, PC Curser, and something called Mouse
overlay?

Is the Jaws curser the mouse? What is the Mouse overlay? Can I read
the screen with the mouse?



Since I am new and don't know how it works and how to configure it I
can't tell what I can and can't do.

I can tell that many functions of the accounting program, and the
three programs that are involved in time tracking do not behave well
and most likely are going to require special custom scripts.

Before I spend a lot of money and time I want to know if Jaws can even
do the little stuff like Office and surfing the web?

If JAWS doesn't like Office 2010 what version does it like?

Thanks for your time.

Shannon





















__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of detection
engine 15432 (20170517) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of detection
engine 15432 (20170517) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


Re: major warning about c cleaner and windows 10

Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
 

Heck, the only thing I ever worried about was the registry cleaner anyway; good point.

 

Ted

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 3:19 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: major warning about c cleaner and windows 10

 

I've been using CCleaner (not the registry cleaner option - I never use those) for disc cleanup, browser cache cleanup, and a number of it's other tidying functions since the XP days (I think, I know since Windows 7) and use it routinely under Windows 10 on multiple machines, both 32 and 64 bit, and under every Version of Windows 10 Home 64-bit and Windows 10 Pro 32-bit that's been issued so far.

It has not caused any issues for me.   Given the long history of this product and the lack of any widely reported issues with it this would indicate what was experienced was idiosyncratic in some way.  That's not "blaming the user" either, it's just an observable thing.  If CCleaner were taking down Windows 10 systems with any frequency the technical press would have been all over it by now.  It would almost amount to a scandal.
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns

Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
 

I Believe the tabs also work (see VLC). It shows controls you can't see any other way. Wish it knew what they were!

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 4:54 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns

Hi,
There are two touch cursor navigation modes: basic and advanced. The basic
mode will let you navigate controls within an app (left and right arrows),
while advanced mode will let you navigate through object hierarchy/GUI
element tree structure.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 1:45 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns

No, This isn't the reason it isn't finding the controls. Rotor is only used
in Gesture mode. This is, I believe only applicable when using an actual
touch screen.
Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shannon" <shannon@bartchroofing.com>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns


Bill,
This is kind of cool. It could find some of the controls I know are
there but can't reach. It doesn't find all of them though.
I just popped into jaws 40 min mode to give this a brief test run. The
arrow keys and the number pad tab and shift tab move this guy around
but I heard the numpad say something about rotering through different
kinds of controls.
I didn't know what that meant. Is that why it can't find the other
things I know are there? They are different from the ones it did find?
Mostly it found buttons and headers.
Thanks for the info.
Shannon
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Mario
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 2:55 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns

Bill, so when using the touch cursor, there's no need to use the arrow
keys, right? I'm asking because I really don't know how to use it.

-------- Original Message --------
From: Bill White [mailto:billwhite92701@dslextreme.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 3:41 PM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns

Hi, Shannon. To activate the Touch Cursor:

1. Open the program you want to navigate.

2.

Press SHIFT plus the plus sign on the Number Pad, or if using laptop
layout,

SHIFT+CAPS LOCK+SEMICOLON



Once the Touch Cursor is active, use TAB and SHIFT plus TAB to
navigate between the various controls. When you find a control you
want to activate, press SPACE BAR.

Bill White

Billwhite92701@dslextreme.com



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Shannon
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 12:32 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns



Oh, this could be the thing I am looking for. These three programs
that are really giving me trouble are just like that! They have
buttons and pull downs and menues that are not tab, shift, tab Ctrl
Tab or arrow key reachable.

To get to them the mouse find command was hit or miss and mostly missed.

Any quicky pointers on this nifty little thing? I always wondered what
perspective was being read when I used the number pad with JAWS? It
never seamed to be doing what I thought it should. We uses the numpad
for the mouse. So If this little thing is like a mouse only not a
mouse, how do you control it? Can you click when you find it?

Thanks

Shannon



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Randy Barnett
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 2:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns



There are basically 3 cursors. The regular PC cursor that is the
default and used most often. it navigates the controls using tab and
arrow keys. the second is the Jaws cursor that moves the mouse pointer
with the arrow keys.
this is usually only used when PC cursor wont work. the touch cursor
was Jaws fix for windows using things that don't work with the first
two cursors. It is used with the left right arrow keys. I only started
using the touch cursor in windows 10. It is not as complicated as it
sounds once you have used them for a wile.
On 5/17/2017 12:01 PM, Shannon wrote:

That is the second time I have heard about this touch curser?

So Jaws has 4 kinds of cursers? Jaws curser,virtual curser PC curser
Mouse over lay, and now a Touch curser?

Oh boy. What is a touch curser for? If that is for a tablet then I can
not worry about it. I don't have one of those.

Audio ducking sounds like a good thing. I can't tell you or most
likely, I don't have to tell you, how annoying and difficult to deal
with the sounds from a web page while useing a screen reader at the same
time.



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 1:53 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns



Hi,

At least for now, Window-Eyes will work on Windows 10 (including the
latest release which is Creators Update), but that's not always going
to be so in the future. There are certain features introduced in later
JAWS releases that makes Windows 10 and universal apps a bit easier to
use, the most important of which is touch cursor (JAWS 15). There are
also features that takes advantage of Windows 8.x and 10 functionality
such as audio ducking (JAWS 18); regarding audio ducking, it has
received mixed reviews.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Shannon
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 11:43 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns



Randy ,

You know, I strongly suspected that to be the case. I was too afraid
to get Win 10 when they were offering it so I didn't. Sigh.

Too many things could have gone wrong and then what would I do?

Now I am stuck with it. And now it looks like there is a newer version
coming out? Creator?

Oh boy!

Thanks

Shannon

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Randy Barnett
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns



Its windows 8.1! Universally disliked. :) Just my opinion but win 10
is better than win 8.1 and I dont care for win 10 all that much. But
to be fair it isnt terrible either I just think win 7 is better.
On 5/17/2017 10:42 AM, Shannon wrote:

I am running windows 8.1.

I am not a big fan of it either. Actually I am not sure what exactly I
don't like. This computer has been goofy since I got it. Not sure if
it was Windows or WE but it gives me fits all the time in all the
programs mentioned. Don't really know which is the culprit.



Thanks

Shannon

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Randy Barnett
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 12:27 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns



Jaws works with office 2010 pretty well. Surfing the web and doing
most tasks. Witch version of windows do you have at work? win 7 is my
preference and most business's still use it.
On 5/17/2017 10:19 AM, Dennis L wrote:

Jaws works fine with office 2010. It can surf the web fine.






From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Shannon
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 1:01 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: New user here; JAWs questions and concerns



Good morning,

I am a potential new user of JAWS. I would be one of many conversions
from WindowEyes.

I have downloaded the trial of JAWS 18 and pretty concerned about what
it can and cannot do.

I know that there is a large learning curve I will have to go through,
and that is only one of my concerns.

I have been reading the list for the last few days and a few things
mentioned by others concern me.

I also use here at work Office 2010, Outlook, Word and Excel all the time.

I saw a mention of excel not working well with JAWS? Is that true?
That would be a deal breaker for me.

I use spread sheets every single day to do my job. I also use on a
daily basis the MS Query feature. Will JAWS handle the queries?

I make mail merge documents frequently and they tie to the MS Databases.



Will Jaws work with outlook 2010? I have over 10 different email
profiles set up and I need access to them.

Does JAWS have a way to search the screen for text or buttons to be
clicked by the mouse or a "HotSpot" feature as WE did/does? I use that
feature everyday along with custom scripts to get access to the time
keeping software programs.

The language in the control panel seams so foreign to me. I can't
tell, but it seems as if Jaws acknowledges 4 kinds of cursers? A
virtual curser, a JAWS curser, PC Curser, and something called Mouse
overlay?

Is the Jaws curser the mouse? What is the Mouse overlay? Can I read
the screen with the mouse?



Since I am new and don't know how it works and how to configure it I
can't tell what I can and can't do.

I can tell that many functions of the accounting program, and the
three programs that are involved in time tracking do not behave well
and most likely are going to require special custom scripts.

Before I spend a lot of money and time I want to know if Jaws can even
do the little stuff like Office and surfing the web?

If JAWS doesn't like Office 2010 what version does it like?

Thanks for your time.

Shannon





















__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of detection
engine 15432 (20170517) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of detection
engine 15432 (20170517) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com