Date   

Re: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

Jason White
 

Maria Campbell <lucky1inct@...> wrote:
I have also been very disappointed in the increasing instability of JAWS in
Internet Explorer, especially since Edge isn't even supported at all at this
time.
In my experience, both Firefox and Chrome work well with recent versions of
JAWS. I've used them with quite complex Web applications.


Re: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

Maria Campbell
 

I have also been very disappointed in the increasing instability of JAWS in Internet Explorer, especially since Edge isn't even supported at all at this time. I would be much happier to pay for greater future stability than for new features that I may never, or hardly ever use.


Maria Campbell
lucky1@...

Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries.
Without them, humanity cannot survive.
--Dalai Lama

On 12/9/2016 2:59 PM, Gudrun Brunot wrote:
Music to my ears, Tim. Thank you for taking the time and going to the
trouble to put this in a nutshell for us. I know I've been noticing problems
with JAWS and not been able to figure out whether it was because I wasn't
spending enough time reading the training material from FS or whether it was
my configuration or JAWS settings. What I've had difficulty with is websites
where I get stuck in some toolbar and told that I'm on a tab that I can't
get out of, whether I tab, control-tab, or arrow around. All I can do is
close the site and reopen it. That has been extremely irritating and
time-consuming for a long time.

Yeah for stability.



Gudrun

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim Ford
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 11:20 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

Hi All,

I warn readers that my post here is a bit long, but for those of you who
want to help things improve with JAWS, I urge you to take the time to
consider my observations and opinions described below.

Back early on with JAWS 17, I reported to Freedom Scientific the
sluggishness I was experiencing. I also reported that on this list. At the
time, nobody else seemed to be having the problem, and FS said they had not
heard of anyone but me having the problems. Maybe I was the first, but now
it seems obvious the problem is steadily affecting more and more of us.

I tried every update of JAWS 17, hoping it would fix the problems, but the
sluggishness became worse. I tried all beta test versions of JAWS 18, and
although it seemed a bit better, eventually J 18 was impacted to the point
that I quit using it.

I completely uninstalled every piece of FS software, other than Open Book,
and did a new install of JAWS 16 from the installation CD. I have not had
any of the sluggishness, now going on about 3 weeks.

It thus seems clear there is a fundamental problem with J 17 and 18, that it
affects different computers at different rates of onset, like a disease that
started slowly, and is now gathering steam as it spreads.

My machine is an HP laptop running Windows 7 Pro, 32 bit, with 6 GB of ram.
It is a state government agency machine, with Semantic encryption and
anti-virus, and Office 2013. Somewhere in our experiences are the clues
towards a solution, and I hope FS figures it out soon.

For now, I will stay with J 16. If I decide that JAWS is not worth the
problems, I will go to NVDA, but not beat myself up any longer dealing with
the performance problems JAWS 17-18 have. My current license is good only
up to version 17, and I just wont' pay for any more worthless upgrades.

From my vague recollection, to find good JAWS stability, we would have to go
back to something like JAWS 7, maybe up to 10, but after that, FS was
focusing too much on developing new features, in order to justify us
continuing to work with them.

That said, I also appreciate that Windows and web design has become vastly
more complicated, to come up with all those nifty visual features, and it
has been a constant battle for screen readers to keep up. JAWS is losing
the battle.

My humble suggestion is that Freedom Scientific should accept that JAWS
basic stability and features have now become too unstable for most of us.
JAWS created the new "feature" of having an automatic reboot of JAWS when
the system senses a lockup. That "feature" is a complete acknowledgement of
how unstable JAWS has become.

In order for a private vendor such as FS to be motivated to quit trying new
features for a while, and concentrate on stability of what JAWS already has,
JAWS users need to send a clear message to FS, that we will be willing to
accept less new glitz, in exchange for stability.

Maybe us JAWS users have to share some of the blame for allowing ourselves
to get excited about new JAWS versions, but we never were asked whether we
valued new features over stability. I suggest that it is now time for us to
make that clear, that glitz is fine, but not at the expense of stable
performance for our day in and day out use of computers.

Thank you for considering my long rant.,

Tim Ford






Re: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

Gudrun Brunot
 

Music to my ears, Tim. Thank you for taking the time and going to the
trouble to put this in a nutshell for us. I know I've been noticing problems
with JAWS and not been able to figure out whether it was because I wasn't
spending enough time reading the training material from FS or whether it was
my configuration or JAWS settings. What I've had difficulty with is websites
where I get stuck in some toolbar and told that I'm on a tab that I can't
get out of, whether I tab, control-tab, or arrow around. All I can do is
close the site and reopen it. That has been extremely irritating and
time-consuming for a long time.

Yeah for stability.



Gudrun

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim Ford
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 11:20 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

Hi All,

I warn readers that my post here is a bit long, but for those of you who
want to help things improve with JAWS, I urge you to take the time to
consider my observations and opinions described below.

Back early on with JAWS 17, I reported to Freedom Scientific the
sluggishness I was experiencing. I also reported that on this list. At the
time, nobody else seemed to be having the problem, and FS said they had not
heard of anyone but me having the problems. Maybe I was the first, but now
it seems obvious the problem is steadily affecting more and more of us.

I tried every update of JAWS 17, hoping it would fix the problems, but the
sluggishness became worse. I tried all beta test versions of JAWS 18, and
although it seemed a bit better, eventually J 18 was impacted to the point
that I quit using it.

I completely uninstalled every piece of FS software, other than Open Book,
and did a new install of JAWS 16 from the installation CD. I have not had
any of the sluggishness, now going on about 3 weeks.

It thus seems clear there is a fundamental problem with J 17 and 18, that it
affects different computers at different rates of onset, like a disease that
started slowly, and is now gathering steam as it spreads.

My machine is an HP laptop running Windows 7 Pro, 32 bit, with 6 GB of ram.
It is a state government agency machine, with Semantic encryption and
anti-virus, and Office 2013. Somewhere in our experiences are the clues
towards a solution, and I hope FS figures it out soon.

For now, I will stay with J 16. If I decide that JAWS is not worth the
problems, I will go to NVDA, but not beat myself up any longer dealing with
the performance problems JAWS 17-18 have. My current license is good only
up to version 17, and I just wont' pay for any more worthless upgrades.

From my vague recollection, to find good JAWS stability, we would have to go
back to something like JAWS 7, maybe up to 10, but after that, FS was
focusing too much on developing new features, in order to justify us
continuing to work with them.

That said, I also appreciate that Windows and web design has become vastly
more complicated, to come up with all those nifty visual features, and it
has been a constant battle for screen readers to keep up. JAWS is losing
the battle.

My humble suggestion is that Freedom Scientific should accept that JAWS
basic stability and features have now become too unstable for most of us.
JAWS created the new "feature" of having an automatic reboot of JAWS when
the system senses a lockup. That "feature" is a complete acknowledgement of
how unstable JAWS has become.

In order for a private vendor such as FS to be motivated to quit trying new
features for a while, and concentrate on stability of what JAWS already has,
JAWS users need to send a clear message to FS, that we will be willing to
accept less new glitz, in exchange for stability.

Maybe us JAWS users have to share some of the blame for allowing ourselves
to get excited about new JAWS versions, but we never were asked whether we
valued new features over stability. I suggest that it is now time for us to
make that clear, that glitz is fine, but not at the expense of stable
performance for our day in and day out use of computers.

Thank you for considering my long rant.,

Tim Ford


Re: Difficulty Using Website

 

Just FYI, I am using Jaws 18 and just went to the website and I am able to navigate it OK. I was able to select links like Holiday Hot Sauces, New Arrivals etc. and to arrow through the list of displayed results. I did find that there are no headings on the site so after I selected "Holiday Hot Sauces" it took me a bit to find the actual section, I had to page down a few times, then I realized I was in a listing of sauces and prices and then went back up until I came to the beginning. I could have used virtual find and looked for "Holiday" and found it much quicker.

I must say that Jaws 18 seems a lot better with some websites. For example, the Outlook.com webinterface was sort of like what Pamela described with Jaws 17, extremely sluggish and basically unuseable. With Jaws 18 I can navigate it although it is still just not as accessible as it once was, but that apparently is something Microsoft is aware of and is working on (at least I was told this by a Microsoft Accessibility person).

Best regards,
Sieghard

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ekstrand, Pamela A. -ND
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 2:37 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Difficulty Using Website

Hi All,

I am trying to use the hotsauceworld.com website, and navigating it with JAWS 17 is next to impossible. I have tried both IE and Firefox with similar results. It is so sluggish that it becomes unuseable.

Does anyone have any suggestions for making this site useable with JAWS?

Thanks.
Pam


Difficulty Using Website

Ekstrand, Pamela A. -ND
 

Hi All,

I am trying to use the hotsauceworld.com website, and navigating it with JAWS 17 is next to impossible. I have tried both IE and Firefox with similar results. It is so sluggish that it becomes unuseable.

Does anyone have any suggestions for making this site useable with JAWS?

Thanks.
Pam


locked Re: Seeking for candidates, working from home

James Homuth
 

Closing this thread for being extremely off-topic. We don't accept job advertisements here.


James,

List Admin


On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 10:42 am, Pablo Morales wrote:

Hello everybody,
Sorry for the semi off topic.
We are looking for people who are bilingual, and who wish to work from home.
If anybody is interested, please send me an email to.
pmorales@...
Please, see the job description below.
Thank you everybody,

Job Summary
This position is responsible for Receiving, processing and responding to
inbound calls, written letters and emails originated by guests, vendors,
Corporate & Franchise restaurants, media outlets and other entities. On
behalf of Denny's Corporate, Customer Service Associates must provide
accurate information regarding corporate processes and procedures. If
necessary, routes inquiries/issues to the appropriate person and or
department. Ensures all calls regarding restaurant experiences are quickly
addressed, analyzed and resolved.
Essential Functions (Duties and Responsibilities)
. Responsible for meeting and exceeding Call Center metrics and
service expectations when responding to those who make contact with the
Denny's Corporate Customer Service department and the Executive Office (CEO
Promise) phone and email queues.
. Answers, researches and resolves inquiries, complaints received
regarding service failures experienced at Denny's restaurants, fulfillment
requests, credit/gift card issues, service compliments, general suggestions
and comments.
. Acts as Corporate Liaison between guests and various departments
within to ensure third party questions and or problem are properly
addressed.
. Identifies and communicates systemic and recurring service issues to
departmental, Operations and Training Leaders.
. Administers and documents customer satisfaction surveys via phone
conversations for those guests inside of targeted areas of Denny's
footprint.
. Asks probing questions to gain clarity and use active listening
skills to ensure the guest's perspective about the issue(s) are identified
and recorded so that the root cause can be determined and addressed by field
leaders.
. Assists restaurant managers in correctly handling service related
issues, including gift card redemption and issuance problems.
. Contacts Franchise Owners, Restaurant Management, Corporate and
Franchise Leaders as necessary to gain additional insight and or to provide
additional information regarding guest incidents.
. Requests additional follow-up from above leaders as necessary when
either a guest requests this specific contact and or he/she is not
completely satisfied with the resolution provided by the Customer Service
Department.
. Provides and processes guests compensation (coupons, paper checks &
gift cards) to ensure that all service issues are resolved and as an attempt
to apologize for the situation and regain the guest's patronage in the
future.
. Provides guests with a personalized communication in the format of a
handwritten card or experience specific email. This communication
apologizes, offers resolution, outlines the steps that have been taken to
address the issue at the restaurant level and thanks the guests for making
Denny's Corporate aware.
. Accurately and thoroughly documents all exchanges of communication
and information. Such documentation is frequently requested and used by
Denny's Legal Department.
. Follows up and follows through on open call summaries, requests,
promises, and questions that have not been answered to provide callers with
a resolution in a timely manner.
. Maintains acceptable workloads and meet or exceed departmental
metrics as outlined by the leadership team.
. Other duties as assigned.

Education & Experience Requirements
. High school diploma or equivalent. Some college preferred.
. 1-3 years of recent experience in a Customer Service support role
(Call Center experience preferred). Computer experience is required along
with an acceptable WPM of at least 30.
Required Knowledge and Skills
. Must be Bilingual in English and Spanish (written and spoken)
. Must have a passion for customer service excellence and have the
desire and drive to serve as the customer's advocate.
. Excellent written and verbal communication skills.
. Must be able to take and process 60- 80 calls and 20-30 emails per
day.
. Works independently and adjusts to changing priorities and demands
associated with a changing environment.
. Proven analytical and problem solving skills.
. Must be detailed oriented and have the ability to work well under
pressure.
. Must have the ability to listen to internal and external customers
and communicate to all levels of the organization (Managers, Directors,
SVP's, etc..).
. Self-motivated and demonstrates positive interpersonal skills. Hello
everybody,

 


Re: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

 

This must be happening for some people then because I can't confirm this at all with either Jaws 17 or 18. It may happen occasionally, but it must not be a lot since I can't even remember when I last had this problem. I had Jaws 17 and now have Jaws 18 on two laptops with Windows 10, my old Acer and my new Asus Zenbook, and I also had/have them on several desktops at my store which are still running Windows 7 and nowhere do I have a big problem with this.

Regards,
Sieghard

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of dennis
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 8:53 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

i too have been back to 16 because 17 and 18 have the problem of the vertual kercer shutting itself off all the time. while using the net or email or anything.


On 12/9/2016 1:57 AM, Marquette, Ed wrote:
Tim:

Thank you for your full and frank discussion of something that has concerned me for years.
In fact, a few years back, I started an on-line petition. The idea was to send a message to Freedom Scientific that, until Freedom Scientific fixed fundamental problems with its basic code (instead of loading the software with new features) we, JAWS users, should stop buying "upgrades" -- a kind of feature moratorium.
I hear echoes of my own posts -- posts that got me kicked off at least one list.
Many of us experienced the problems with JAWS 13 that you are experiencing with JAWS 17.
Well, my on-line petition didn't get very far, and Freedom Scientific has continued to pile on the new features.
The problems with JAWS 17 may not simply be a further symptom of the feature disease, though it likely contributes. JAWS 17 is fundamentally different, as FS will admit. I try to use JAWS 17, but I find myself switching back to JAWS 16 quite frequently. There are an array of situations, particularly in Office 2013, where JAWS 16 is just better, reading prompts that JAWS 17 misses, reading the correct prompts instead of extraneous information, and just working instead of going out to lunch. JAWS 17 also has an inherent problem of corrupting some of its own files. Periodically, it starts reading extraneous numbers. For instance, in JAWS 17, I am now typing (in words and figures) the number thirteen 13. When I read back the number, I hear thirteen sixty-five. The number is in superscript, but that is not always necessary to confuse JAWS 17. JAWS 16 NEVER has this problem.
Of course the whole file layout is different. As I sadly discovered, the Keyboard Manager in JAWS 17 is brain-damaged.
At the same time I bemoan the new features, it is some of these features that keep me using JAWS. Even as badly as JAWS handles track changes, when I last checked NVDA didn't handle track changes at all.
ALAS! Perhaps I'll try NVDA again.
I was hoping JAWS 18 would fix the problems in JAWS 17. It looks like that was a vain hope.


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim
Ford
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 1:20 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

Hi All,

I warn readers that my post here is a bit long, but for those of you who want to help things improve with JAWS, I urge you to take the time to consider my observations and opinions described below.

Back early on with JAWS 17, I reported to Freedom Scientific the sluggishness I was experiencing. I also reported that on this list. At the time, nobody else seemed to be having the problem, and FS said they had not heard of anyone but me having the problems. Maybe I was the first, but now it seems obvious the problem is steadily affecting more and more of us.

I tried every update of JAWS 17, hoping it would fix the problems, but the sluggishness became worse. I tried all beta test versions of JAWS 18, and although it seemed a bit better, eventually J 18 was impacted to the point that I quit using it.

I completely uninstalled every piece of FS software, other than Open Book, and did a new install of JAWS 16 from the installation CD. I have not had any of the sluggishness, now going on about 3 weeks.

It thus seems clear there is a fundamental problem with J 17 and 18, that it affects different computers at different rates of onset, like a disease that started slowly, and is now gathering steam as it spreads.

My machine is an HP laptop running Windows 7 Pro, 32 bit, with 6 GB of ram.
It is a state government agency machine, with Semantic encryption and anti-virus, and Office 2013. Somewhere in our experiences are the clues towards a solution, and I hope FS figures it out soon.

For now, I will stay with J 16. If I decide that JAWS is not worth the problems, I will go to NVDA, but not beat myself up any longer dealing with the performance problems JAWS 17-18 have. My current license is good only
up to version 17, and I just wont' pay for any more worthless upgrades.

From my vague recollection, to find good JAWS stability, we would have to go back to something like JAWS 7, maybe up to 10, but after that, FS was focusing too much on developing new features, in order to justify us continuing to work with them.
That said, I also appreciate that Windows and web design has become vastly more complicated, to come up with all those nifty visual features, and it has been a constant battle for screen readers to keep up. JAWS is losing the battle.

My humble suggestion is that Freedom Scientific should accept that JAWS basic stability and features have now become too unstable for most of us.
JAWS created the new "feature" of having an automatic reboot of JAWS when the system senses a lockup. That "feature" is a complete acknowledgement of how unstable JAWS has become.

In order for a private vendor such as FS to be motivated to quit trying new features for a while, and concentrate on stability of what JAWS already has, JAWS users need to send a clear message to FS, that we will be willing to accept less new glitz, in exchange for stability.

Maybe us JAWS users have to share some of the blame for allowing ourselves to get excited about new JAWS versions, but we never were asked whether we valued new features over stability. I suggest that it is now time for us to make that clear, that glitz is fine, but not at the expense of stable performance for our day in and day out use of computers.

Thank you for considering my long rant.,

Tim Ford




----------------------------------------------------------------------
This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.




locked Seeking for candidates, working from home

Pablo Morales
 

Hello everybody,
Sorry for the semi off topic.
We are looking for people who are bilingual, and who wish to work from home.
If anybody is interested, please send me an email to.
pmorales@...
Please, see the job description below.
Thank you everybody,

Job Summary
This position is responsible for Receiving, processing and responding to
inbound calls, written letters and emails originated by guests, vendors,
Corporate & Franchise restaurants, media outlets and other entities. On
behalf of Denny's Corporate, Customer Service Associates must provide
accurate information regarding corporate processes and procedures. If
necessary, routes inquiries/issues to the appropriate person and or
department. Ensures all calls regarding restaurant experiences are quickly
addressed, analyzed and resolved.
Essential Functions (Duties and Responsibilities)
. Responsible for meeting and exceeding Call Center metrics and
service expectations when responding to those who make contact with the
Denny's Corporate Customer Service department and the Executive Office (CEO
Promise) phone and email queues.
. Answers, researches and resolves inquiries, complaints received
regarding service failures experienced at Denny's restaurants, fulfillment
requests, credit/gift card issues, service compliments, general suggestions
and comments.
. Acts as Corporate Liaison between guests and various departments
within to ensure third party questions and or problem are properly
addressed.
. Identifies and communicates systemic and recurring service issues to
departmental, Operations and Training Leaders.
. Administers and documents customer satisfaction surveys via phone
conversations for those guests inside of targeted areas of Denny's
footprint.
. Asks probing questions to gain clarity and use active listening
skills to ensure the guest's perspective about the issue(s) are identified
and recorded so that the root cause can be determined and addressed by field
leaders.
. Assists restaurant managers in correctly handling service related
issues, including gift card redemption and issuance problems.
. Contacts Franchise Owners, Restaurant Management, Corporate and
Franchise Leaders as necessary to gain additional insight and or to provide
additional information regarding guest incidents.
. Requests additional follow-up from above leaders as necessary when
either a guest requests this specific contact and or he/she is not
completely satisfied with the resolution provided by the Customer Service
Department.
. Provides and processes guests compensation (coupons, paper checks &
gift cards) to ensure that all service issues are resolved and as an attempt
to apologize for the situation and regain the guest's patronage in the
future.
. Provides guests with a personalized communication in the format of a
handwritten card or experience specific email. This communication
apologizes, offers resolution, outlines the steps that have been taken to
address the issue at the restaurant level and thanks the guests for making
Denny's Corporate aware.
. Accurately and thoroughly documents all exchanges of communication
and information. Such documentation is frequently requested and used by
Denny's Legal Department.
. Follows up and follows through on open call summaries, requests,
promises, and questions that have not been answered to provide callers with
a resolution in a timely manner.
. Maintains acceptable workloads and meet or exceed departmental
metrics as outlined by the leadership team.
. Other duties as assigned.

Education & Experience Requirements
. High school diploma or equivalent. Some college preferred.
. 1-3 years of recent experience in a Customer Service support role
(Call Center experience preferred). Computer experience is required along
with an acceptable WPM of at least 30.
Required Knowledge and Skills
. Must be Bilingual in English and Spanish (written and spoken)
. Must have a passion for customer service excellence and have the
desire and drive to serve as the customer's advocate.
. Excellent written and verbal communication skills.
. Must be able to take and process 60- 80 calls and 20-30 emails per
day.
. Works independently and adjusts to changing priorities and demands
associated with a changing environment.
. Proven analytical and problem solving skills.
. Must be detailed oriented and have the ability to work well under
pressure.
. Must have the ability to listen to internal and external customers
and communicate to all levels of the organization (Managers, Directors,
SVP's, etc..).
. Self-motivated and demonstrates positive interpersonal skills. Hello
everybody,


Re: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
 

I had to do just that during my misadventure with 11-12.  As I recall, FS changed the video intercept about that time, so, once 11 or 12 was installed, 10 exhibited problems.  The only remedy was to totally uninstall the newer version, thereby breaking the older version.  Then it was install and repair time .  It always worked, but was a hassle.

 

Ted

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Carlson
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2016 12:47 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

 

Brian,

 

While that approach is one way to clearly clean out any residual issues, I'd be reluctant to use such a draconian approach, since it would then leave me with no previous version to fall back on.

 

I'd have to uninstall the latest, and go back to my earliest (version 15) and reinstall each one again in sequence, in order that the earlier versions would once again function. I might consider this if I have

an open stretch of time to take on a project like this.

 

Dave
Oregonian, woodworker, Engineer, Musician, and Pioneer

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian Vogel

Sent: Friday, December 09, 2016 07:53

Subject: Re: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

 

I can't, and won't try to, speak to the issues anyone might be having with JAWS 17 or 18.

What I can speak to, though, is that very often, for any software, if you are using the "install over" method of installation or upgrade method a tiny problem will be introduced that shouldn't be (and not through the fault of the user - you don't control the installation/upgrade software).  These can be carried along and unintentionally built upon until they bring things to a grinding halt.

Tim said, "I completely uninstalled every piece of FS software, other than Open Book, and did a new install of JAWS 16 from the installation CD."  I'm not saying that I know the answer to the question I'm about to pose, "What would have happened had you done the same with JAWS 17 or JAWS 18?"

The "uninstall it all" reboot, and reinstall from scratch technique sometimes works to resolve what seem to be insoluble problems.  If you want to be really thorough after the initial uninstall and reboot, you might want to run a utility such as Revo Uninstaller to be sure that there are no vestigial traces of the prior installations anywhere.  Some uninstallers are much better than others about cleaning up after themselves.

I've solved a number of problems with various JAWS installations for releases well before either 17 or 18 by taking this approach.  It may solve nothing for all I know, but it's definitely worth a try to see whether it does.

--
Brian


A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.

         ~ William James


Re: PowerPoint and alt text

Dave...
 


Thanks, Papa. Had forgotten this even existed.
 
Dave
Oregonian, woodworker, Engineer, Musician, and Pioneer
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Poppa Bear
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2016 07:50
Subject: Re: PowerPoint and alt text

Hello Marriann,

1.       Go to the picture/object holder.

2.        Press application/context menu

3.        Go to Format picture.

4.        Shift tab into the tab box containing 4 items and arrow to size and property

5.        Tab to the Alt Text check box and check it, then tab to the title and description edit boxes.

6.       Don’t forget to close the pain when done.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Marianne Denning
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 5:38 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: PowerPoint and alt text

 

Please ignore my question about Excel. I guess I didn't put in my brain before asking the question. How do I put alt text with a picture in PowerPoint 2013 and 2016?


--

Marianne Denning, TVI, MA

Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired

(513) 607-6053


Re: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

Dave...
 


Brian,
 
While that approach is one way to clearly clean out any residual issues, I'd be reluctant to use such a draconian approach, since it would then leave me with no previous version to fall back on.
 
I'd have to uninstall the latest, and go back to my earliest (version 15) and reinstall each one again in sequence, in order that the earlier versions would once again function. I might consider this if I have
an open stretch of time to take on a project like this.
 
Dave
Oregonian, woodworker, Engineer, Musician, and Pioneer
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2016 07:53
Subject: Re: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

I can't, and won't try to, speak to the issues anyone might be having with JAWS 17 or 18.

What I can speak to, though, is that very often, for any software, if you are using the "install over" method of installation or upgrade method a tiny problem will be introduced that shouldn't be (and not through the fault of the user - you don't control the installation/upgrade software).  These can be carried along and unintentionally built upon until they bring things to a grinding halt.

Tim said, "I completely uninstalled every piece of FS software, other than Open Book, and did a new install of JAWS 16 from the installation CD."  I'm not saying that I know the answer to the question I'm about to pose, "What would have happened had you done the same with JAWS 17 or JAWS 18?"

The "uninstall it all" reboot, and reinstall from scratch technique sometimes works to resolve what seem to be insoluble problems.  If you want to be really thorough after the initial uninstall and reboot, you might want to run a utility such as Revo Uninstaller to be sure that there are no vestigial traces of the prior installations anywhere.  Some uninstallers are much better than others about cleaning up after themselves.

I've solved a number of problems with various JAWS installations for releases well before either 17 or 18 by taking this approach.  It may solve nothing for all I know, but it's definitely worth a try to see whether it does.

--
Brian


A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.

         ~ William James


Re: PowerPoint and alt text

Dave...
 


Okay, that makes more sense. I think your only option is to add a caption to the image. Try right-clicking on the image, or when focused on it, use Shift+Enter or the Apps key for contextual menu options.
 
Dave
Oregonian, woodworker, Engineer, Musician, and Pioneer
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2016 06:38
Subject: PowerPoint and alt text

Please ignore my question about Excel. I guess I didn't put in my brain before asking the question. How do I put alt text with a picture in PowerPoint 2013 and 2016?

--
Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
(513) 607-6053


Re: Excel and alt text

Dave...
 


Not sure I understand what you mean by Alt text. Are you referring to a comment, or a link?
 
Dave
Oregonian, woodworker, Engineer, Musician, and Pioneer
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2016 06:18
Subject: Excel and alt text

How do you put alt text into Excel in Office 2013 or 2016? I thought it was using the application key and tabbing to alt text but when I do that I can't enter the text.

--
Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
(513) 607-6053


Re: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

Dave...
 

support@...

Dave
Oregonian, woodworker, Engineer, Musician, and Pioneer

----- Original Message -----
From: "BeastlyTheos" <@BeastlyTheos>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2016 03:57
Subject: Re: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.


So if we stop using their product, that sends a message that we're not
satisfied, but it doesn't let them know why we're not satisfied. How
do we specifically send the message that we're not satisfied because
of their development roadmap?

On 12/9/16, Marquette, Ed <ed.marquette@...> wrote:
Tim:

Thank you for your full and frank discussion of something that has
concerned
me for years.
In fact, a few years back, I started an on-line petition. The idea was to
send a message to Freedom Scientific that, until Freedom Scientific fixed
fundamental problems with its basic code (instead of loading the software
with new features) we, JAWS users, should stop buying "upgrades" -- a kind
of feature moratorium.
I hear echoes of my own posts -- posts that got me kicked off at least one
list.
Many of us experienced the problems with JAWS 13 that you are experiencing
with JAWS 17.
Well, my on-line petition didn't get very far, and Freedom Scientific has
continued to pile on the new features.
The problems with JAWS 17 may not simply be a further symptom of the
feature
disease, though it likely contributes. JAWS 17 is fundamentally
different,
as FS will admit. I try to use JAWS 17, but I find myself switching back
to
JAWS 16 quite frequently. There are an array of situations, particularly
in
Office 2013, where JAWS 16 is just better, reading prompts that JAWS 17
misses, reading the correct prompts instead of extraneous information, and
just working instead of going out to lunch. JAWS 17 also has an inherent
problem of corrupting some of its own files. Periodically, it starts
reading extraneous numbers. For instance, in JAWS 17, I am now typing (in
words and figures) the number thirteen 13. When I read back the number, I
hear thirteen sixty-five. The number is in superscript, but that is not
always necessary to confuse JAWS 17. JAWS 16 NEVER has this problem.
Of course the whole file layout is different. As I sadly discovered, the
Keyboard Manager in JAWS 17 is brain-damaged.
At the same time I bemoan the new features, it is some of these features
that keep me using JAWS. Even as badly as JAWS handles track changes,
when
I last checked NVDA didn't handle track changes at all.
ALAS! Perhaps I'll try NVDA again.
I was hoping JAWS 18 would fix the problems in JAWS 17. It looks like
that was a vain hope.


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim Ford
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 1:20 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

Hi All,

I warn readers that my post here is a bit long, but for those of you who
want to help things improve with JAWS, I urge you to take the time to
consider my observations and opinions described below.

Back early on with JAWS 17, I reported to Freedom Scientific the
sluggishness I was experiencing. I also reported that on this list. At
the
time, nobody else seemed to be having the problem, and FS said they had
not
heard of anyone but me having the problems. Maybe I was the first, but
now
it seems obvious the problem is steadily affecting more and more of us.

I tried every update of JAWS 17, hoping it would fix the problems, but the
sluggishness became worse. I tried all beta test versions of JAWS 18, and
although it seemed a bit better, eventually J 18 was impacted to the point
that I quit using it.

I completely uninstalled every piece of FS software, other than Open Book,
and did a new install of JAWS 16 from the installation CD. I have not had
any of the sluggishness, now going on about 3 weeks.

It thus seems clear there is a fundamental problem with J 17 and 18, that
it
affects different computers at different rates of onset, like a disease
that
started slowly, and is now gathering steam as it spreads.

My machine is an HP laptop running Windows 7 Pro, 32 bit, with 6 GB of
ram.

It is a state government agency machine, with Semantic encryption and
anti-virus, and Office 2013. Somewhere in our experiences are the clues
towards a solution, and I hope FS figures it out soon.

For now, I will stay with J 16. If I decide that JAWS is not worth the
problems, I will go to NVDA, but not beat myself up any longer dealing
with
the performance problems JAWS 17-18 have. My current license is good only
up to version 17, and I just wont' pay for any more worthless upgrades.

From my vague recollection, to find good JAWS stability, we would have to
go
back to something like JAWS 7, maybe up to 10, but after that, FS was
focusing too much on developing new features, in order to justify us
continuing to work with them.

That said, I also appreciate that Windows and web design has become vastly
more complicated, to come up with all those nifty visual features, and it
has been a constant battle for screen readers to keep up. JAWS is losing
the battle.

My humble suggestion is that Freedom Scientific should accept that JAWS
basic stability and features have now become too unstable for most of us.
JAWS created the new "feature" of having an automatic reboot of JAWS when
the system senses a lockup. That "feature" is a complete acknowledgement
of
how unstable JAWS has become.

In order for a private vendor such as FS to be motivated to quit trying
new
features for a while, and concentrate on stability of what JAWS already
has,
JAWS users need to send a clear message to FS, that we will be willing to
accept less new glitz, in exchange for stability.

Maybe us JAWS users have to share some of the blame for allowing ourselves
to get excited about new JAWS versions, but we never were asked whether we
valued new features over stability. I suggest that it is now time for us
to
make that clear, that glitz is fine, but not at the expense of stable
performance for our day in and day out use of computers.

Thank you for considering my long rant.,

Tim Ford




----------------------------------------------------------------------
This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete this
E-mail message.
Thank you.




Re: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

dennis
 

i too have been back to 16 because 17 and 18 have the problem of the vertual kercer shutting itself off all the time. while using the net or email or anything.

On 12/9/2016 1:57 AM, Marquette, Ed wrote:
Tim:

Thank you for your full and frank discussion of something that has concerned me for years.
In fact, a few years back, I started an on-line petition. The idea was to send a message to Freedom Scientific that, until Freedom Scientific fixed fundamental problems with its basic code (instead of loading the software with new features) we, JAWS users, should stop buying "upgrades" -- a kind of feature moratorium.
I hear echoes of my own posts -- posts that got me kicked off at least one list.
Many of us experienced the problems with JAWS 13 that you are experiencing with JAWS 17.
Well, my on-line petition didn't get very far, and Freedom Scientific has continued to pile on the new features.
The problems with JAWS 17 may not simply be a further symptom of the feature disease, though it likely contributes. JAWS 17 is fundamentally different, as FS will admit. I try to use JAWS 17, but I find myself switching back to JAWS 16 quite frequently. There are an array of situations, particularly in Office 2013, where JAWS 16 is just better, reading prompts that JAWS 17 misses, reading the correct prompts instead of extraneous information, and just working instead of going out to lunch. JAWS 17 also has an inherent problem of corrupting some of its own files. Periodically, it starts reading extraneous numbers. For instance, in JAWS 17, I am now typing (in words and figures) the number thirteen 13. When I read back the number, I hear thirteen sixty-five. The number is in superscript, but that is not always necessary to confuse JAWS 17. JAWS 16 NEVER has this problem.
Of course the whole file layout is different. As I sadly discovered, the Keyboard Manager in JAWS 17 is brain-damaged.
At the same time I bemoan the new features, it is some of these features that keep me using JAWS. Even as badly as JAWS handles track changes, when I last checked NVDA didn't handle track changes at all.
ALAS! Perhaps I'll try NVDA again.
I was hoping JAWS 18 would fix the problems in JAWS 17. It looks like that was a vain hope.


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim Ford
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 1:20 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

Hi All,

I warn readers that my post here is a bit long, but for those of you who want to help things improve with JAWS, I urge you to take the time to consider my observations and opinions described below.

Back early on with JAWS 17, I reported to Freedom Scientific the sluggishness I was experiencing. I also reported that on this list. At the time, nobody else seemed to be having the problem, and FS said they had not heard of anyone but me having the problems. Maybe I was the first, but now it seems obvious the problem is steadily affecting more and more of us.

I tried every update of JAWS 17, hoping it would fix the problems, but the sluggishness became worse. I tried all beta test versions of JAWS 18, and although it seemed a bit better, eventually J 18 was impacted to the point that I quit using it.

I completely uninstalled every piece of FS software, other than Open Book, and did a new install of JAWS 16 from the installation CD. I have not had any of the sluggishness, now going on about 3 weeks.

It thus seems clear there is a fundamental problem with J 17 and 18, that it affects different computers at different rates of onset, like a disease that started slowly, and is now gathering steam as it spreads.

My machine is an HP laptop running Windows 7 Pro, 32 bit, with 6 GB of ram.
It is a state government agency machine, with Semantic encryption and anti-virus, and Office 2013. Somewhere in our experiences are the clues towards a solution, and I hope FS figures it out soon.

For now, I will stay with J 16. If I decide that JAWS is not worth the problems, I will go to NVDA, but not beat myself up any longer dealing with the performance problems JAWS 17-18 have. My current license is good only
up to version 17, and I just wont' pay for any more worthless upgrades.

From my vague recollection, to find good JAWS stability, we would have to go back to something like JAWS 7, maybe up to 10, but after that, FS was focusing too much on developing new features, in order to justify us continuing to work with them.
That said, I also appreciate that Windows and web design has become vastly more complicated, to come up with all those nifty visual features, and it has been a constant battle for screen readers to keep up. JAWS is losing the battle.

My humble suggestion is that Freedom Scientific should accept that JAWS basic stability and features have now become too unstable for most of us.
JAWS created the new "feature" of having an automatic reboot of JAWS when the system senses a lockup. That "feature" is a complete acknowledgement of how unstable JAWS has become.

In order for a private vendor such as FS to be motivated to quit trying new features for a while, and concentrate on stability of what JAWS already has, JAWS users need to send a clear message to FS, that we will be willing to accept less new glitz, in exchange for stability.

Maybe us JAWS users have to share some of the blame for allowing ourselves to get excited about new JAWS versions, but we never were asked whether we valued new features over stability. I suggest that it is now time for us to make that clear, that glitz is fine, but not at the expense of stable performance for our day in and day out use of computers.

Thank you for considering my long rant.,

Tim Ford




----------------------------------------------------------------------
This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.



Re: Comment pane in MS-Word 2016 and JAWS 18

Jason White
 

For the sake of comparison, it works fine in NVDA 2016.3. I performed exactly
the same test by inserting a comment into a simple document. The presence of
the comment was identified and I was able to read it while editing, with both
speech and braille.

This appears to be a JAWS issue rather than a Microsoft Word issue.


Jason White via Groups.Io <jason=jasonjgw.net@groups.io> wrote:

I'm running the latest Jaws 18.0.2118 and Microsoft Word 2016 with the
November update applied, under Windows 10.

If I insert a comment (Alt+R, C), the braille display continues to show the
main text of the document, even after I type text into the comment pane. If I
then use arrow keys to navigate, neither speech nor braille presents the text
of the comment.

Is anyone else on the list seeing this?




Re: Comment pane in MS-Word 2016 and JAWS 18

Jason White
 

Kevin Hourigan <kevinthourigan@...> wrote:
Using the same configuration, for me, Jaws is intermittently not responding
to the reading commands; not going down a line, not going to the next word,
and most often, not reading character by character. It is only intermittent,
only in Word.
I suspect that's a different problem, but I'll report it if I can reproduce
it.


Re: PowerPoint and alt text

Marianne Denning
 

Thanks! I couldn't remember one of the steps so it messed up everything else. One of those days.

--
Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
(513) 607-6053


Re: Comment pane in MS-Word 2016 and JAWS 18

Kevin Hourigan <kevinthourigan@...>
 

Hello Jasen,

Using the same configuration, for me, Jaws is intermittently not responding
to the reading commands; not going down a line, not going to the next word,
and most often, not reading character by character. It is only intermittent,
only in Word.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jason
White via Groups.Io
Sent: December 9, 2016 7:34 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Comment pane in MS-Word 2016 and JAWS 18

I'm running the latest Jaws 18.0.2118 and Microsoft Word 2016 with the
November update applied, under Windows 10.

If I insert a comment (Alt+R, C), the braille display continues to show the
main text of the document, even after I type text into the comment pane. If
I then use arrow keys to navigate, neither speech nor braille presents the
text of the comment.

Is anyone else on the list seeing this?


Re: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

 

I can't, and won't try to, speak to the issues anyone might be having with JAWS 17 or 18.

What I can speak to, though, is that very often, for any software, if you are using the "install over" method of installation or upgrade method a tiny problem will be introduced that shouldn't be (and not through the fault of the user - you don't control the installation/upgrade software).  These can be carried along and unintentionally built upon until they bring things to a grinding halt.

Tim said, "I completely uninstalled every piece of FS software, other than Open Book, and did a new install of JAWS 16 from the installation CD."  I'm not saying that I know the answer to the question I'm about to pose, "What would have happened had you done the same with JAWS 17 or JAWS 18?"

The "uninstall it all" reboot, and reinstall from scratch technique sometimes works to resolve what seem to be insoluble problems.  If you want to be really thorough after the initial uninstall and reboot, you might want to run a utility such as Revo Uninstaller to be sure that there are no vestigial traces of the prior installations anywhere.  Some uninstallers are much better than others about cleaning up after themselves.

I've solved a number of problems with various JAWS installations for releases well before either 17 or 18 by taking this approach.  It may solve nothing for all I know, but it's definitely worth a try to see whether it does.

--
Brian


A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.

         ~ William James