Date   

moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Steve Nutt
 

Hi,

 

Again, Nuance have already included it as a screen reader flag, so it’s up to Vispero to put a switch in the UI.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: 16 September 2020 11:44
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

I think that the most likely method for affecting change, and it's a very necessary change in my opinion, is to have as many users as possible storm Vispero as well as Nuance and insist on these changes. Other than adding dictionary exceptions I know of no way to disable these exceptions and there really should be a way. In fact, I honestly question whether these exceptions should even be built into this software but by software I'm referring to Nuance and not JAWS. I'm not certain if contacting Nuance directly will make a difference. However, Vispero is technically the customer of Nuance since I'm sure they have paid a large licensing fee in order to include Nuance voices with their products. Therefore, if a good customer like Vispero advocated for this change because their customers were insisting on it it's perhaps possible that Nuance might respond favorably.

 

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019
 
WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 9/15/2020 11:19 PM, Kevin Minor wrote:

Hi.

 

I’m encountering an issue with Vocalizer and JAWS. It’s substituting what it thinks something should be, and it’s wrong. Let me illustrate.

 

There is a ham radio called the GD-77. Vocalizer says it’s the good 77, and that’s not right. The letters should be spelled out. I tried to do a dictionary entry for the word, but it didn’t work. I also never knew Google had a service called grams mail. This is annoying, and because of it I’m back to good old Eloquence. I prefer Vocalizer’s speech, but not with all the so-called “helpful” abbreviation conversions.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Kevin and Jilly


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Steve Nutt
 

Hi David,

 

I wish JAWS would have an option to not expand abbreviations.

 

If you buy CodeFactory’s version of Vocalizer, it has a setting in its own settings to disable abbreviation expansion.  Apparently, it is a screen reader flag, so JAWS should be able to do it.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: 16 September 2020 11:35
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

The fact is that these modern, human-sounding synthesizers are absolutely notorious for doing this. To me it's maddening as I don't want my reader, human or synthetic, to substitute what's on the screen for what it thinks are the correct replacements based on commonly used abbreviations. This is one reason why there will always be a place for voices like Eloquence and ESpeak. 

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019
 
WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 9/15/2020 11:38 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

What did you use in the dictionary?

You could try a regular expression match on:  GD-(\d{1,})    and replace with Gee Dee \1
This should make GD- followed by one or more numeric digits read as Gee Dee followed by the actual number that the string of digits represents.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 11:35 AM, Richard Turner wrote:
A simple matter unless the synth overrides the exception, then you are stuck.
-
But I have never seen a synth do this.   The very purpose of an exception is to tell the screen reader to pass something to the synth that one knows will be pronounced as the end user wants it to be pronounced.

I have seen a great many users not understand how to create an exception correctly.  And if they need a broad exception, like the GD- followed by numbers, and don't know regular expression syntax, there's no way to do it for GD- followed by any random set of digits.

But the fact remains that if each synth had an exception mechanism of its own then you would have to learn, synth by synth, how to make those exceptions.  It is a far easier task to learn how to tell your screen reader how to pass exceptions, which will work with any synth (so far, anyway), than it would be to try to learn how each and every synth one might want to try implements exceptions (if such a mechanism were to exist, and to my knowledge, it doesnt).
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Richard Turner
 

On Wed, Sep 16 Brian Vogel said:

           That is the way.   There is no default that is going to please everyone.  And there are circumstances, like the abbreviation ess tee, that it would require artificial intelligence to know whether it was saint or street, and heaven forbid you had something like 125 St. Peter St.  (One twenty five saint peter street).

            For myself, it would drive me mad to have every conventional abbreviation such as for street, lane, avenue, boulevard, or symbols such as the dollar sign when used with numbers, announced as the character itself.   There are some logical leaps that make abundant sense in practice.  And if you're not happy with what a given synth chooses to do, it is a simple matter to add an exception in the screen reader's appropriate dictionary to suit the circumstance.

A simple matter unless the synth overrides the exception, then you are stuck.

 

If a synth left things alone, you could simply add an exception to the dictionary to force s t to be street and be happy as a clam living on street john street.

 

 

 

 

Richard

"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must pass himself,” and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have regretted not granting grace to others, I’ve never once regretted extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 8:26 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 06:44 AM, David Goldfield wrote:

Other than adding dictionary exceptions I know of no way to disable these exceptions and there really should be a way.

-
David,

           That is the way.   There is no default that is going to please everyone.  And there are circumstances, like the abbreviation ess tee, that it would require artificial intelligence to know whether it was saint or street, and heaven forbid you had something like 125 St. Peter St.  (One twenty five saint peter street).

            For myself, it would drive me mad to have every conventional abbreviation such as for street, lane, avenue, boulevard, or symbols such as the dollar sign when used with numbers, announced as the character itself.   There are some logical leaps that make abundant sense in practice.  And if you're not happy with what a given synth chooses to do, it is a simple matter to add an exception in the screen reader's appropriate dictionary to suit the circumstance.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 06:44 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Other than adding dictionary exceptions I know of no way to disable these exceptions and there really should be a way.
-
David,

           That is the way.   There is no default that is going to please everyone.  And there are circumstances, like the abbreviation ess tee, that it would require artificial intelligence to know whether it was saint or street, and heaven forbid you had something like 125 St. Peter St.  (One twenty five saint peter street).

            For myself, it would drive me mad to have every conventional abbreviation such as for street, lane, avenue, boulevard, or symbols such as the dollar sign when used with numbers, announced as the character itself.   There are some logical leaps that make abundant sense in practice.  And if you're not happy with what a given synth chooses to do, it is a simple matter to add an exception in the screen reader's appropriate dictionary to suit the circumstance.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

Given the number of times this issue has arisen, and across the various screen readers, and how many NVDA developers have commented that this is synth dependent, not the product of the screen reader, that would have to apply to JAWS as well.   A synth is a synth is a synth (in terms of what it's intended to do, not how each one specifically does it).
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Richard Turner
 

GD is the braille contraction for good.

Perhaps it is being confused that this should be the default at all times?

It’s like S t always being pronounced street, when it is equally used for Saint.

 

I do not know if that is something Vispero controls or the creators of the voice.  Personally, I wish those kind of abbreviations were always just spelled out.

 

 

 

Richard

"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must pass himself,” and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have regretted not granting grace to others, I’ve never once regretted extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 3:44 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

I think that the most likely method for affecting change, and it's a very necessary change in my opinion, is to have as many users as possible storm Vispero as well as Nuance and insist on these changes. Other than adding dictionary exceptions I know of no way to disable these exceptions and there really should be a way. In fact, I honestly question whether these exceptions should even be built into this software but by software I'm referring to Nuance and not JAWS. I'm not certain if contacting Nuance directly will make a difference. However, Vispero is technically the customer of Nuance since I'm sure they have paid a large licensing fee in order to include Nuance voices with their products. Therefore, if a good customer like Vispero advocated for this change because their customers were insisting on it it's perhaps possible that Nuance might respond favorably.

 

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019
 
WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 9/15/2020 11:19 PM, Kevin Minor wrote:

Hi.

 

I’m encountering an issue with Vocalizer and JAWS. It’s substituting what it thinks something should be, and it’s wrong. Let me illustrate.

 

There is a ham radio called the GD-77. Vocalizer says it’s the good 77, and that’s not right. The letters should be spelled out. I tried to do a dictionary entry for the word, but it didn’t work. I also never knew Google had a service called grams mail. This is annoying, and because of it I’m back to good old Eloquence. I prefer Vocalizer’s speech, but not with all the so-called “helpful” abbreviation conversions.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Kevin and Jilly


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

Yet again a demonstration of something I keep saying:  You cannot make defaults that please everyone.

And no matter what that default may be, some user or users are going to hate it.  But if it's within the user's ability to tweak something to get what they want that's all they have any reason to want.

Your preferences are not everyone's preferences.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Mario
 

long liv Eloquence and ESpeak!

-------- Original Message --------
From: David Goldfield [mailto:david.goldfield@outlook.com]
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Date: Wednesday, September 16, 2020, 6:35 AM
Subject: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?
The fact is that these modern, human-sounding synthesizers are
absolutely notorious for doing this. To me it's maddening as I don't
want my reader, human or synthetic, to substitute what's on the screen
for what it thinks are the correct replacements based on commonly used
abbreviations. This is one reason why there will always be a place for
voices like Eloquence and ESpeak.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 9/15/2020 11:38 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
What did you use in the dictionary?

You could try a regular expression match on:  GD-(\d{1,})    and
replace with Gee Dee \1
This should make GD- followed by one or more numeric digits read as
Gee Dee followed by the actual number that the string of digits
represents.
--

Brian -Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

/The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome
it./
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...>
 

I think that the most likely method for affecting change, and it's a very necessary change in my opinion, is to have as many users as possible storm Vispero as well as Nuance and insist on these changes. Other than adding dictionary exceptions I know of no way to disable these exceptions and there really should be a way. In fact, I honestly question whether these exceptions should even be built into this software but by software I'm referring to Nuance and not JAWS. I'm not certain if contacting Nuance directly will make a difference. However, Vispero is technically the customer of Nuance since I'm sure they have paid a large licensing fee in order to include Nuance voices with their products. Therefore, if a good customer like Vispero advocated for this change because their customers were insisting on it it's perhaps possible that Nuance might respond favorably.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
On 9/15/2020 11:19 PM, Kevin Minor wrote:

Hi.

 

I’m encountering an issue with Vocalizer and JAWS. It’s substituting what it thinks something should be, and it’s wrong. Let me illustrate.

 

There is a ham radio called the GD-77. Vocalizer says it’s the good 77, and that’s not right. The letters should be spelled out. I tried to do a dictionary entry for the word, but it didn’t work. I also never knew Google had a service called grams mail. This is annoying, and because of it I’m back to good old Eloquence. I prefer Vocalizer’s speech, but not with all the so-called “helpful” abbreviation conversions.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Kevin and Jilly


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...>
 

The fact is that these modern, human-sounding synthesizers are absolutely notorious for doing this. To me it's maddening as I don't want my reader, human or synthetic, to substitute what's on the screen for what it thinks are the correct replacements based on commonly used abbreviations. This is one reason why there will always be a place for voices like Eloquence and ESpeak. 

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
On 9/15/2020 11:38 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

What did you use in the dictionary?

You could try a regular expression match on:  GD-(\d{1,})    and replace with Gee Dee \1
This should make GD- followed by one or more numeric digits read as Gee Dee followed by the actual number that the string of digits represents.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: how do you get jaws to read titles of songs from a CD you just downloaded from YouTube?

Marty Hutchings
 

I have not downloaded anything from YouTube, but getting anything from Amazon usually gets me a Zip file that contains all of the songs with their file names and meta data.  Where did the download go on your computer?  Are the tracks labeled in that file?
 
Love in Christ
Marty
If we view this present life as our primary goal, we will agree with William Shakespeare who said: “Life is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.” From TODAY IN THE WORD June 1, 2020
 

Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: how do you get jaws to read titles of songs from a CD you just downloaded from YouTube?
 
But what is it that you're playing with WinAmp, and by that I mean does the file have the extension MP3, MP4, WAV, etc.?

That's where the crux of the matter lies in all likelihood.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

What did you use in the dictionary?

You could try a regular expression match on:  GD-(\d{1,})    and replace with Gee Dee \1
This should make GD- followed by one or more numeric digits read as Gee Dee followed by the actual number that the string of digits represents.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Kevin Minor
 

Hi.

 

I’m encountering an issue with Vocalizer and JAWS. It’s substituting what it thinks something should be, and it’s wrong. Let me illustrate.

 

There is a ham radio called the GD-77. Vocalizer says it’s the good 77, and that’s not right. The letters should be spelled out. I tried to do a dictionary entry for the word, but it didn’t work. I also never knew Google had a service called grams mail. This is annoying, and because of it I’m back to good old Eloquence. I prefer Vocalizer’s speech, but not with all the so-called “helpful” abbreviation conversions.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Kevin and Jilly


moderated Re: a strange issue with my windows ten computer.

JM Casey
 

Although you havent’ said precisely, you talk about a batterya nd lid and that makes me think you are using a laptop. That would seem to possibly negate what I’m about to say. Nevertheless, the other thing that can cause spontaneous-seeming shutdowns aside from overheating, is a faulty power supply or power strip. Essentially the computer shuts down to prevent an overload/surge from damaging it. Do you have power issues in your home? Is it plugged into a power strip that’s possibly old or damaged?

 

Not quite sure about laptops (you would think they would default to battery power, but again, I really don’t know), but the internal power supplies of desktops can fail and this will  eitehr cause the computer to simply not turn on or create intermitent issues like this.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Rawls
Sent: September 15, 2020 8:50 PM
To: jazzpiano@...
Subject: a strange issue with my windows ten computer.

 

Hi all,

When I first turn on my computer, after it has been off for a few hours, all works ok, except, all of a sudden, the computer shuts down. I could be reading an email, or listening to a song, or whatever, and all of a sudden I have nothing. I asked my sighted wife is the screen showed anything, and she said it was blank. So, I do a reboot, and it comes up, and after that, all is fine, until the next time, when I shut down for a while, and the sequence begins again, I start the computer, it works ok for let's say ten minutes or so, and then it shuts down. And after I reboot, all is fine.

I am running windows ten, and, jaws 2020.I went into my control panel, and to power options, and told it to shut down, when I shut the computer down, ion battery an plugged in. I also told it, to shut down, when on battery when the lid closes, and the same when plugged in.do you have any ideas why it is acting this way? Thanks for your help. Jim


moderated Re: a strange issue with my windows ten computer.

 

I'm with Richard.  I suspect overheating, particularly if the machine has never had a "dust blow out" cleaning.

If you are using it in a household with cats/dogs or frequently on your lap, with something like a fuzzy robe on during the winter months, it will over time pick up lint, hair, and dust, all of which collects over time.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: how do you get jaws to read titles of songs from a CD you just downloaded from YouTube?

 

But what is it that you're playing with WinAmp, and by that I mean does the file have the extension MP3, MP4, WAV, etc.?

That's where the crux of the matter lies in all likelihood.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: a strange issue with my windows ten computer.

Richard Turner
 

Is it getting hot?
If so, get so ir us it.
my high ech solution to that wilwith my laptop so to take 5 or from pennies, wrap more with tape in a short stack, repeat until you have 4 evenly sized legs and set them under each corner.
You may use double sided tape to hold them to the bottom.
If that isn't it, if they still use clock bdteries, maybe it is ing?




Richard
"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge ovedyr which he must pass himself,” and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have regretted not granting grace to others, I’ve never once regretted extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

On Sep 15, 2020, at 5:50 PM, Jim Rawls <jazzpiano@...> wrote:



Hi all,

When I first turn on my computer, after it has been off for a few hours, all works ok, except, all of a sudden, the computer shuts down. I could be reading an email, or listening to a song, or whatever, and all of a sudden I have nothing. I asked my sighted wife is the screen showed anything, and she said it was blank. So, I do a reboot, and it comes up, and after that, all is fine, until the next time, when I shut down for a while, and the sequence begins again, I start the computer, it works ok for let's say ten minutes or so, and then it shuts down. And after I reboot, all is fine.

I am running windows ten, and, jaws 2020.I went into my control panel, and to power options, and told it to shut down, when I shut the computer down, ion battery an plugged in. I also told it, to shut down, when on battery when the lid closes, and the same when plugged in.do you have any ideas why it is acting this way? Thanks for your help. Jim


moderated a strange issue with my windows ten computer.

Jim Rawls
 

Hi all,

When I first turn on my computer, after it has been off for a few hours, all works ok, except, all of a sudden, the computer shuts down. I could be reading an email, or listening to a song, or whatever, and all of a sudden I have nothing. I asked my sighted wife is the screen showed anything, and she said it was blank. So, I do a reboot, and it comes up, and after that, all is fine, until the next time, when I shut down for a while, and the sequence begins again, I start the computer, it works ok for let's say ten minutes or so, and then it shuts down. And after I reboot, all is fine.

I am running windows ten, and, jaws 2020.I went into my control panel, and to power options, and told it to shut down, when I shut the computer down, ion battery an plugged in. I also told it, to shut down, when on battery when the lid closes, and the same when plugged in.do you have any ideas why it is acting this way? Thanks for your help. Jim


moderated Re: how do you get jaws to read titles of songs from a CD you just downloaded from YouTube?

Jim Rawls
 

I am using win amp.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Milton Ota
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 2:56 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: how do you get jaws to read titles of songs from a CD you just downloaded from YouTube?

 

Hi,

 

What media player are you using? iTunes, Windows Media, or VLC Media Player?

 

It helps if you tell the list.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Rawls
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 4:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: how do you get jaws to read titles of songs from a CD you just downloaded from YouTube?

 

Hi all, I am running jaws 2020 on a windows ten computer. The Cd I downloaded is intitled benny goodman's greatest hits. Gut when I go to listen to it, it doesn't read any titles of the songs. I know they are there, because my wife who is sighted can see the titles. So, how can I get jaws to read them? Jim

3921 - 3940 of 85854