Hi,

Dates is a different matter.

Tom is a US synth, so it is going to read dates in US style. For example, 11/09 is the 11th of September in the UK, but would be read by Tom as the 9th of November.

Note: it is only the US that have dates upside down. 😊

All the best

Steve

--
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
T: +44(0)1438-742286
M: +44(0)7956-334938
F: +44(0)1438-759589
E: steve@comproom.co.uk
W:
https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
comproom.co.uk%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce2bd1118fca04f71a72908d85bb28e
bd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637360169736355722&amp
;sdata=vPfN2whFxIeYg4Vc%2FldKA3PlpFjyFT4a7gg65LqmS3M%3D&reserved=0

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Covici
Sent: 16 September 2020 20:15
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

And you should see what Tom does with dates! Its awful and there is no dictionary entry that would solve it.

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 12:56:29 -0400,
Richard Turner wrote:

[1 <text/plain; us-ascii (quoted-printable)>] All I can say now is
that the Tom voice does not say good.
I loaded Nathan to check, and yes, Nathan says good.
If entering gd in the dictionary and then g d with a space between them in the replacement doesn't work, then it is the Nathan voice being stubborn and not honoring the Jaws setting.



Richard
"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must
pass himself," and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of
ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have
regretted not granting grace to others, I've never once regretted
extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin
Minor
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 9:43 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Hi.

I'm using the Nathan Compact voice.

Oh well, it is what it is, but it's annoying.

Kevin and Jilly

From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Richard
Turner
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 12:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

I'm taking back everything I said on this topic.
Kevin, my Vocalizer Tom Enhanced speaks your example perfectly as g d not good.

Which voice are you using exactly?

And, I have actually never heard Grahams mail for gmail.



Richard
"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must
pass himself," and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of
ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have
regretted not granting grace to others, I've never once regretted
extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Kevin
Minor
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 8:20 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Hi.

I'm encountering an issue with Vocalizer and JAWS. It's substituting what it thinks something should be, and it's wrong. Let me illustrate.

There is a ham radio called the GD-77. Vocalizer says it's the good 77, and that's not right. The letters should be spelled out. I tried to do a dictionary entry for the word, but it didn't work. I also never knew Google had a service called grams mail. This is annoying, and because of it I'm back to good old Eloquence. I prefer Vocalizer's speech, but not with all the so-called "helpful" abbreviation conversions.

Thanks in advance.

Kevin and Jilly






[2 <text/html; us-ascii (quoted-printable)>]

--
Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is:
How do
you spend it?

John Covici wb2una
covici@ccs.covici.com

[1 <text/plain; us-ascii (quoted-printable)>] All I can say now is
that the Tom voice does not say good.
I loaded Nathan to check, and yes, Nathan says good.
If entering gd in the dictionary and then g d with a space between them in the replacement doesn't work, then it is the Nathan voice being stubborn and not honoring the Jaws setting.



Richard
"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must
pass himself," and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of
ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have
regretted not granting grace to others, I've never once regretted
extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin Minor
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 9:43 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Hi.

I'm using the Nathan Compact voice.

Oh well, it is what it is, but it's annoying.

Kevin and Jilly

From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Richard
Turner
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 12:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

I'm taking back everything I said on this topic.
Kevin, my Vocalizer Tom Enhanced speaks your example perfectly as g d not good.

Which voice are you using exactly?

And, I have actually never heard Grahams mail for gmail.



Richard
"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must
pass himself," and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of
ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have
regretted not granting grace to others, I've never once regretted
extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Kevin
Minor
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 8:20 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Hi.

I'm encountering an issue with Vocalizer and JAWS. It's substituting what it thinks something should be, and it's wrong. Let me illustrate.

There is a ham radio called the GD-77. Vocalizer says it's the good 77, and that's not right. The letters should be spelled out. I tried to do a dictionary entry for the word, but it didn't work. I also never knew Google had a service called grams mail. This is annoying, and because of it I'm back to good old Eloquence. I prefer Vocalizer's speech, but not with all the so-called "helpful" abbreviation conversions.

Thanks in advance.

Kevin and Jilly






[2 <text/html; us-ascii (quoted-printable)>]

Hi,

Dates is a different matter.

Tom is a US synth, so it is going to read dates in US style. For example, 11/09 is the 11th of September in the UK, but would be read by Tom as the 9th of November.

Note: it is only the US that have dates upside down. 😊

All the best

Steve

--
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
T: +44(0)1438-742286
M: +44(0)7956-334938
F: +44(0)1438-759589
E: steve@comproom.co.uk
W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Covici
Sent: 16 September 2020 20:15
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

And you should see what Tom does with dates! Its awful and there is no dictionary entry that would solve it.

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 12:56:29 -0400,
Richard Turner wrote:

[1 <text/plain; us-ascii (quoted-printable)>] All I can say now is
that the Tom voice does not say good.
I loaded Nathan to check, and yes, Nathan says good.
If entering gd in the dictionary and then g d with a space between them in the replacement doesn't work, then it is the Nathan voice being stubborn and not honoring the Jaws setting.



Richard
"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must
pass himself," and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of
ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have
regretted not granting grace to others, I've never once regretted
extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin
Minor
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 9:43 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Hi.

I'm using the Nathan Compact voice.

Oh well, it is what it is, but it's annoying.

Kevin and Jilly

From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Richard
Turner
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 12:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

I'm taking back everything I said on this topic.
Kevin, my Vocalizer Tom Enhanced speaks your example perfectly as g d not good.

Which voice are you using exactly?

And, I have actually never heard Grahams mail for gmail.



Richard
"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must
pass himself," and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of
ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have
regretted not granting grace to others, I've never once regretted
extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Kevin
Minor
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 8:20 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Hi.

I'm encountering an issue with Vocalizer and JAWS. It's substituting what it thinks something should be, and it's wrong. Let me illustrate.

There is a ham radio called the GD-77. Vocalizer says it's the good 77, and that's not right. The letters should be spelled out. I tried to do a dictionary entry for the word, but it didn't work. I also never knew Google had a service called grams mail. This is annoying, and because of it I'm back to good old Eloquence. I prefer Vocalizer's speech, but not with all the so-called "helpful" abbreviation conversions.

Thanks in advance.

Kevin and Jilly






[2 <text/html; us-ascii (quoted-printable)>]

--
Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is:
How do
you spend it?

John Covici wb2una
covici@ccs.covici.com

Well, in Outlook if there is a group of messages, JAWS starts at the bottom of the list instead of at the top.

When I am on the desk top, jaws says selected and then unselected over and over.

Also in Outlook when I am in my inbox Jaws says table view.  It never did that before.

Pastor Gil

Can you share with the group why?

Alan

I have gone back to Jaws 2020 until the next beta comes out.

Pastor Gil

Can you share with the group why?

Alan

I have gone back to Jaws 2020 until the next beta comes out.

Pastor Gil

I have gone back to Jaws 2020 until the next beta comes out.

Pastor Gil

I find the beta working just fine.


Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@gmail.com

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.
--Edmund Burke

On 9/17/2020 5:04 PM, Pastor Gil Pries wrote:

I have gone back to Jaws 2020 until the next beta comes out.

Pastor Gil

I have gone back to Jaws 2020 until the next beta comes out.

 

Pastor Gil

[1 <text/plain; us-ascii (quoted-printable)>] All I can say now is
that the Tom voice does not say good.
I loaded Nathan to check, and yes, Nathan says good.
If entering gd in the dictionary and then g d with a space between them in the replacement doesn't work, then it is the Nathan voice being stubborn and not honoring the Jaws setting.



Richard
"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must
pass himself," and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of
ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have
regretted not granting grace to others, I've never once regretted
extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin Minor
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 9:43 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Hi.

I'm using the Nathan Compact voice.

Oh well, it is what it is, but it's annoying.

Kevin and Jilly

From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Richard
Turner
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 12:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

I'm taking back everything I said on this topic.
Kevin, my Vocalizer Tom Enhanced speaks your example perfectly as g d not good.

Which voice are you using exactly?

And, I have actually never heard Grahams mail for gmail.



Richard
"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must
pass himself," and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of
ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have
regretted not granting grace to others, I've never once regretted
extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Kevin
Minor
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 8:20 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Hi.

I'm encountering an issue with Vocalizer and JAWS. It's substituting what it thinks something should be, and it's wrong. Let me illustrate.

There is a ham radio called the GD-77. Vocalizer says it's the good 77, and that's not right. The letters should be spelled out. I tried to do a dictionary entry for the word, but it didn't work. I also never knew Google had a service called grams mail. This is annoying, and because of it I'm back to good old Eloquence. I prefer Vocalizer's speech, but not with all the so-called "helpful" abbreviation conversions.

Thanks in advance.

Kevin and Jilly






[2 <text/html; us-ascii (quoted-printable)>]

[1 <text/plain; UTF-8 (8bit)>]
Hi Steve,

Jaws does have an option to expand abbreviations or not, it's in the
Settings Center, in both the applications Settings Center and Settings
Center default all applications. Look here.
1. Insert + 6, to open the Settings Center while in an specific
application, or then press, Control, shift + D, for default all

2. Down arrow to, Web / HTML / PDFs closed, and right arrow to open.

3. Down arrow to, Reading closed, and right arrow to open.

4. Down arrow to, Expand Abbreviations, and there you go.

Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool. Go dodgers!

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Nutt
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it
thinks works for abbreviations?


Hi David,



I wish JAWS would have an option to not expand abbreviations.



If you buy CodeFactory?s version of Vocalizer, it has a setting in its
own settings to disable abbreviation expansion. Apparently, it is a
screen reader flag, so JAWS should be able to do it.



All the best


Steve



--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@comproom.co.uk

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk



From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David
Goldfield
Sent: 16 September 2020 11:35
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it
thinks works for abbreviations?



The fact is that these modern, human-sounding synthesizers are
absolutely notorious for doing this. To me it's maddening as I don't
want my reader, human or synthetic, to substitute what's on the screen
for what it thinks are the correct replacements based on commonly used
abbreviations. This is one reason why there will always be a place for
voices like Eloquence and ESpeak.

David Goldfield,Blindness Assistive Technology SpecialistJAWS
Certified,
2019 WWW.DavidGoldfield.orgOn 9/15/2020 11:38 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

What did you use in the dictionary?

You could try a regular expression match on: GD-(\d{1,}) and replace

with Gee Dee \1
This should make GD- followed by one or more numeric digits read as
Gee Dee followed by the actual number that the string of digits

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome

~ Lawrence Krauss








[2 <text/html; UTF-8 (quoted-printable)>]

[1 <text/plain; us-ascii (quoted-printable)>] All I can say now is
that the Tom voice does not say good.
I loaded Nathan to check, and yes, Nathan says good.
If entering gd in the dictionary and then g d with a space between them in the replacement doesn't work, then it is the Nathan voice being stubborn and not honoring the Jaws setting.



Richard
"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must
pass himself," and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of
ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have
regretted not granting grace to others, I've never once regretted
extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin Minor
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 9:43 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Hi.

I'm using the Nathan Compact voice.

Oh well, it is what it is, but it's annoying.

Kevin and Jilly

From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Richard
Turner
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 12:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

I'm taking back everything I said on this topic.
Kevin, my Vocalizer Tom Enhanced speaks your example perfectly as g d not good.

Which voice are you using exactly?

And, I have actually never heard Grahams mail for gmail.



Richard
"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must
pass himself," and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of
ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have
regretted not granting grace to others, I've never once regretted
extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Kevin
Minor
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 8:20 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Hi.

I'm encountering an issue with Vocalizer and JAWS. It's substituting what it thinks something should be, and it's wrong. Let me illustrate.

There is a ham radio called the GD-77. Vocalizer says it's the good 77, and that's not right. The letters should be spelled out. I tried to do a dictionary entry for the word, but it didn't work. I also never knew Google had a service called grams mail. This is annoying, and because of it I'm back to good old Eloquence. I prefer Vocalizer's speech, but not with all the so-called "helpful" abbreviation conversions.

Thanks in advance.

Kevin and Jilly






[2 <text/html; us-ascii (quoted-printable)>]

Mike,

           What you suggest will work to force JAWS to pass what amounts to the full word for it's "known list of abbreviations" to the synth.  But it does not get the desired effect when it's off, and the synth itself has a "known list of abbreviations" that it expands on its own, which is what seems to be the issue here.  Some don't want the synth doing that, ever, and you would either have to have a way to instruct the synth to turn that feature off, or create exceptions that the screen reader would pass to the synth to force letter by letter announcement.

David,

             Even though I said earlier it was beyond the scope of this discussion, I absolutely love playing with regular expressions, so here are three that would solve the street/saint issue along with the TV issue:

Regular Expression                     Substitution

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss

Mike,

These are good instructions.

Sadly, the Nathan voice ignores those settings.

I’ve tried it with expand abbreviations uncheck and checked and the same with the one below that for acronym’s, and Nathan always says good instead of gd, so Nathan must be a braille reader, 😁.

Hi David,

I wish JAWS would have an option to not expand abbreviations.

If you buy CodeFactory’s version of Vocalizer, it has a setting in its own settings to disable abbreviation expansion.  Apparently, it is a screen reader flag, so JAWS should be able to do it.

All the best

Steve

The fact is that these modern, human-sounding synthesizers are absolutely notorious for doing this. To me it's maddening as I don't want my reader, human or synthetic, to substitute what's on the screen for what it thinks are the correct replacements based on commonly used abbreviations. This is one reason why there will always be a place for voices like Eloquence and ESpeak. 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

What did you use in the dictionary?

You could try a regular expression match on:  GD-(\d{1,})    and replace with Gee Dee \1
This should make GD- followed by one or more numeric digits read as Gee Dee followed by the actual number that the string of digits represents.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss

Hi David,

I wish JAWS would have an option to not expand abbreviations.

If you buy CodeFactory’s version of Vocalizer, it has a setting in its own settings to disable abbreviation expansion.  Apparently, it is a screen reader flag, so JAWS should be able to do it.

All the best

Steve

The fact is that these modern, human-sounding synthesizers are absolutely notorious for doing this. To me it's maddening as I don't want my reader, human or synthetic, to substitute what's on the screen for what it thinks are the correct replacements based on commonly used abbreviations. This is one reason why there will always be a place for voices like Eloquence and ESpeak. 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

What did you use in the dictionary?

You could try a regular expression match on:  GD-(\d{1,})    and replace with Gee Dee \1
This should make GD- followed by one or more numeric digits read as Gee Dee followed by the actual number that the string of digits represents.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss