Date   

moderated Re: create a system image.

Dave Durber
 


Hello James:
 
When I got to the window with the "Start" button in it, I did not use the JAWS cursur to navigate the screen. I will use the I F W boot disk again, and this time, I will do what you suggest, and report back.
 
Yes I did select an existing image backup to restore from my external USB drive. I went through all the prompts, right up to the "Start" button, which, if I had pressed it, the restoration process would have started, and it would have overwritten the existing partitions on the system drive, which I did not want to happen.
 
When you use the I F W restore utility in a Talking Windows Preinstall Environment, the window with all the options I mentioned in my previous message, plus, all the other options, are displayed in a list box, in its own window, and you can use the UP and DOWN arrow keys to highlight each option, and tap the SPACE BAR, to check or uncheck each item.
 
Dave
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: create a system image.

Hello Dave,

 

I’m glad that you got a chance to experiment with IFW.  But, if you are using a tried and true method of restoring your system after a possible catastrophic  failure  then it sounds like you already have all that you need.

 

However, It seems to me that since you did not test IFW in a real life situation IFW may never have got a chance to display some of the items in its menus that you say are missing.

 

Or, when you got to the place where the window was missing, Root Jaws to PC and arrow down and see the settings that you missed.  Hit the space bar on every thing that you want to check.  I always select byte by byte verification.

 

Features like swiping the drive before writing to the disk begins,  a completion alarm and turning off the PC when restoration has been finished and much much more are all right there when using Jaws.

 

I have used IFW for several years now for making image backups and doing image restorations.

 

Every single one of the items that you are concerned about are absolutely there.  Did you have a previously created IFW image for example, on a USB drive available for restoration?  Maybe IFW needed to see that.

 

Do you have access to a spare not important PC for an actual complete trial run?

 

Sorry for all of the questions but I was originally under the impression that you did not have a working solution for making and restoring your backed up images.  If you have a tried and true working method  that your are comfortable with, then that might be your best bet.

 

You take care,  and the best of luck,

 

James B 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave Durber
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 11:08 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: create a system image.

 

James:

 

The computer I am using is running the latest version of Windows 10, with the latest updates, JAWS 2021.

 

Following your last post, I used the I F W create recovery boot disk. I chose to save the .ISO file to the route folder of drive J. I use Power ISO, to load the files onto a thumb drive. I plugged the thumb drive into my laptop and press the power button, and waited. After about 3 minutes, I pressed CTRL+WINDOWS KEY+ENTER, to start Narrator., and sure enough, the program was launched and  started in the usual window.

 

I launched Image for Windows, and tabbed to the list of options and chose "restore". I tapped the DOWN ARROW, until the Normal restore function was selected. I then selected the drive and path to where the backup file I wanted to use was located. I then selected all the partitions on the drive. As the system drive is the only internal drive, it was chosen by default. I was then presented with the Start button, to begin the restoration of the image, to the C drive. As I did not wish to overwrite the current version of the Windows operating system, I closed the program.

 

This is all well and good, if you are prepared to accept all the settings which have been predetermined by the manufacturer, and which, in all probability,, will be perfectly satisfactory for most users, however, there is a very important window, which is left out, when you use the I F W create recovery boot disk, that is, the window, which contains many very important options, such as verifying the image before it is restored; verifying the image byte-for-byte before  the image is restored; wiping free space after the image has been restored; restarting the computer when the restoration process has been completed successfully; etc. This window is displayed immediately before the window which contains the "Start" button which starts the restore process.

 

When you use the I F W Restore utility within Windows or, you use the utility within a session using a Talking Windows Preinstall Environment, the windows I mentioned toward the end of the previous paragraph, is displayed.

 

The I F W create recovery boot disk is a very good way to restore an image but, for me, the exclusion of the options window, is a distinct disadvantage, so I think I will stay with the tried and tested method that I have always used, to restore a system image backup to a computer's system drive.

 

Image for Windows, is very accessible, using Narrator.

 

Dave

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 1:08 AM

Subject: Re: create a system image.

 

Hello Dave,

 

No, I did not have to do any thing to put Narrator on the boot disk.

 

As I remember, after booting up off of the boot disk, you turn Narrator on exactly the same way that you do with Windows.

 

 

Control+Windows Key+Enter.

 

And in my case, I use a USB thumb drive instead of a disk on two different Windows10 laptops.

 

When I purchased Image for Windows, years ago, I was told that it could be used on five PC’s.

 

James B 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave Durber
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2021 5:08 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: create a system image.

 

James:

 

When you used the I F W create recovery boot disk, did you have to check a check box, to include NVDA to start, during the utilities boot process?

 

Dave

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2021 6:11 PM

Subject: Re: create a system image.

 

Hello Dave,

 

I wasn’t even aware that an IFW PE existed.  I do not see that in my version of IFW but there is so much stuff there, I do not doubt it.

 

But, in my post, I was referring to the IFW create recovery boot disk.  This comes with the Image for Windows software.  This is not a WinPE.  It is however, a utility, more specifically, a recovery utility that came with my IFW.  It absolutely does include Narrator which allows a blind person to do a complete image restore without a Win10PE or any other utilities or software.

 

Regards,

 

James B 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave Durber
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2021 11:44 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: create a system image.

 

James:

 

The I F W PE tool, does not come with any screen reader. It is possible to create a Preinstall Environment which includes a screen reader, such as NVDA but, why reinvent the wheel. As I have mentioned before, there are 2 versions of a Talking Preinstall Environment, 1 for Windows 7 and 1 for Windows 10. They both come with NVDA  and Eloquence, as the speech engine. I personally prefer the one for Windows 7. The additional programs which are included with the Windows 10 TWPE, I have stored in a folder on the external USB drive, where I keep the image backups for all our systems.

 

Dave

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2021 3:02 PM

Subject: Re: create a system image.

 

James:

 

In order to use the I F W recovery utility, you need to run it within one of the 2 TWPE, I mentioned in my previous email. Although, there is a way to include NVDA in the I F W PE building utility itself but, I have no idea how to do that.

 

Dave

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2021 1:09 PM

Subject: Re: create a system image.

 

Hi Dave,

 

Assuming that you are using a newer version of Image For Windows, does IFW still incorporate the Narrator Screen reader on its recovery disk?

 

My version of Image for Windows is around 6years old.  My version of IFW itself will make you a recovery disk that includes the Microsoft screen reader, Narrator.   So a blind person can use speech during a recovery.

 

However, one would still have to memorize the steps to get their particular PC to boot off of that bootable USB   recovery disk.  It is also possible to get a sighted person to make a one time change in the boot sequence in the BIOS so the computer will always boot from any USB device that may be inserted during PC start up.

 

I have needed to make several emergency recovery’s over the years because Windows was too corrupted to even boot.  One  time I restored my complete system on to a brand new drive with no problems.  IFW never let me down.

 

I paid around $40.00, around 6 years ago for my copy.  The do have a 30 day trial version.

 

I just wonder if Narrator still comes with IFW.

James B 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave Durber
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2021 6:05 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: create a system image.

 

Randy:

 

I use Image for Windows, produced by Terabyte. You get a 30 day trial, then you need to purchase a license, to go on using the program. I do not think the purchase price is that expensive, probably about 50 dollars, US.

 

As far as I know, there are 2 versions of a Talking Windoes Preinstall Environment (TWPE). One produced by Brian Smart for Windows 7 and another by someone by the name of Carlos, sorry I do not know his last name, for Windows 10. Once you  boot into either TWPE, hopefully You should be able to run Macrium Reflect Free, to restore a previously created image to your system drive, using NVDA to speak the prompts and menues.

 

I use Brian Smart's Windows 7 TWPE and the Image for Windows  restore utility, to restore images. I use this TWPE because, I find that it boots faster, an it definitely shuts down the computer correctly, when you have finished restoring an image or, when you have finished using the TWPE for any other reason.

 

When I have used Carlos's TWPE, I have found that when you shut down the computer, it occasionally hangs, and you need to press and hold the power button, until the system switches off.

 

HTH

 

Dave

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2021 3:54 AM

Subject: Re: create a system image.

 

Will it run within Win PE?

On 4/13/2021 5:04 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 07:58 PM, Alan Lemly wrote:

I did need a bit of sighted help to restore

-
Which is true of the vast majority of backup/restore software because the restore process takes place without Windows itself actually being running, meaning there is no screen reader support.  

Most of my sighted clients have no idea how to do a restore even if they wanted to, but several have been very, very thankful indeed that they had a backup that they'd taken on a regular cycle when they had storage failure (whether HDD or SSD) but had to have me do the actual restore.  It sure as heck beats losing all the data one acquires over years on most computer systems!
 --

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


moderated Re: if you were getting a new computer.

Randy Barnett <blindmansbluff09@...>
 

These were in daily use for years. So they are probably getting tired. Besides HDD are cheap now and why bother with potential failure.

On 4/16/2021 10:36 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 01:01 PM, Randy Barnett wrote:
Although I should probably retire them now that I think of just how old they are getting.
-
Age really generally has a lot less to do with it than hours in service or, more precisely, how many times a drive has had to spin up.  The biggest stresses on a HDD occur when it is spinning up from rest.  Once it's up and spinning, it's quite a bit like a gyroscope and it takes minimum effort on the motor to keep it spinning.

Many backup drives get used very seldom, only when backing up, and even if that's twice a month, 24 spin-ups per year is far fewer than many internal drives get from people shutting down (or restarting, sleeping or hibernating) the machine.

If you look at the SMART stats for most backup drives compared to most system drives (or even data drives that are internal and constantly used) most will be proverbial "babes in the woods" even after years of service.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Jeff Lukacsena: any programmers or website designers or coders on this list

Ekstrand, Pamela A. -ND
 

Yes, but I didn’t know if the question related at all to someone trying to access a Linux server remotely from Windows, so I wanted to put that out there in case.

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny via groups.io
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 3:02 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Jeff Lukacsena: any programmers or website designers or coders on this list

 

Hi Pamela,

But you are still in windows, you aren't really in Linux with Jaws when you are doing this.

Glenn

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 1:55 PM

Subject: Re: Jeff Lukacsena: any programmers or website designers or coders on this list

 

Jeff,

 

I am a database administrator and connect remotely to some linux servers.  I use the latest version of JAWS and it works fairly well with JAWS, although I do have a small amount of residual vision and use that if JAWS is not providing enough feedback, although the JAWS cursor can also usually supply the information needed.

 

JAWS does not work reliably with the VI editor, however.

 

Pam

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeff Lukacsena via groups.io
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 2:45 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Jeff Lukacsena: any programmers or website designers or coders on this list

 

Hello List,

Just curious if there are any computer programmers, website design, accessibility testers, or coders on this list.

I’m looking for resources to learn. Please share.

Thanks,

Jeff Lukacsena

 


moderated gmail folder pain question

Madison Martin
 

Hi all,
Can anyone tell me how to maximize my folder pain on the gmail website and have
it stay that way? I'm trying to do something but it's not showing up and someone
on another list (which clearly isn't for screen reader users) suggested that I
maximize my folder pain. I'm using latest Jaws and Edge. Thanks
Madison


moderated Re: Jeff Lukacsena: any programmers or website designers or coders on this list

Glenn / Lenny
 

Hi Pamela,
But you are still in windows, you aren't really in Linux with Jaws when you are doing this.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: Jeff Lukacsena: any programmers or website designers or coders on this list

Jeff,

 

I am a database administrator and connect remotely to some linux servers.  I use the latest version of JAWS and it works fairly well with JAWS, although I do have a small amount of residual vision and use that if JAWS is not providing enough feedback, although the JAWS cursor can also usually supply the information needed.

 

JAWS does not work reliably with the VI editor, however.

 

Pam

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeff Lukacsena via groups.io
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 2:45 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Jeff Lukacsena: any programmers or website designers or coders on this list

 

Hello List,

Just curious if there are any computer programmers, website design, accessibility testers, or coders on this list.

I’m looking for resources to learn. Please share.

Thanks,

Jeff Lukacsena

 


moderated Re: Jeff Lukacsena: any programmers or website designers or coders on this list

Ekstrand, Pamela A. -ND
 

Jeff,

 

I am a database administrator and connect remotely to some linux servers.  I use the latest version of JAWS and it works fairly well with JAWS, although I do have a small amount of residual vision and use that if JAWS is not providing enough feedback, although the JAWS cursor can also usually supply the information needed.

 

JAWS does not work reliably with the VI editor, however.

 

Pam

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeff Lukacsena via groups.io
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 2:45 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Jeff Lukacsena: any programmers or website designers or coders on this list

 

Hello List,

Just curious if there are any computer programmers, website design, accessibility testers, or coders on this list.

I’m looking for resources to learn. Please share.

Thanks,

Jeff Lukacsena

 


moderated Jeff Lukacsena: any programmers or website designers or coders on this list

Jeff Lukacsena
 

Hello List,

Just curious if there are any computer programmers, website design, accessibility testers, or coders on this list.

I’m looking for resources to learn. Please share.

Thanks,

Jeff Lukacsena

 


moderated Re: Jeff Lukacsena: does anyone use Linux with Jaws

Glenn / Lenny
 

A minor difference to anyone to whom it really doesn't matter.
 they are similar enough that packages can be designed to work on either OS.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: Jeff Lukacsena: does anyone use Linux with Jaws

Hi,

NO, macOS is not based on Linux – it is based on a combination of Free BSD (Berkeley Software Distribution), a specific form of Unix, along with some other components.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 11:37 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Jeff Lukacsena: does anyone use Linux with Jaws

 

Hi Jeff,

Jaws only works on the Microsoft operating systems.

Linux is more akin to the Mac OS, or I should say, Apple's OS is based on Linux.

Linux has a screenreader called Orca, and it comes with many distros of Linux.

Many of the keyboard commands in Linux are the same as in windows, just because they are common, like alt tab and alt F4 for example, and in Linux, you don't have to deal with ribbons, it still uses regular menus.

In Linux you can install the TTS called Voxin, which is what Jaws users know as Eloquence.

That costs like 5 or 10 dollars from the Orlux site.

Glenn

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 1:29 PM

Subject: Jeff Lukacsena: does anyone use Linux with Jaws

 

Hello List,

I was wondering if anyone on here uses Linux with Jaws.

What version of Jaws are you using?

How successful is it.

Where can I learn more about it?

Do I need any other software to make it work?

Thanks,

Jeff Lukacsena

 


moderated Re: Jeff Lukacsena: does anyone use Linux with Jaws

 

Hi,

NO, macOS is not based on Linux – it is based on a combination of Free BSD (Berkeley Software Distribution), a specific form of Unix, along with some other components.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 11:37 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Jeff Lukacsena: does anyone use Linux with Jaws

 

Hi Jeff,

Jaws only works on the Microsoft operating systems.

Linux is more akin to the Mac OS, or I should say, Apple's OS is based on Linux.

Linux has a screenreader called Orca, and it comes with many distros of Linux.

Many of the keyboard commands in Linux are the same as in windows, just because they are common, like alt tab and alt F4 for example, and in Linux, you don't have to deal with ribbons, it still uses regular menus.

In Linux you can install the TTS called Voxin, which is what Jaws users know as Eloquence.

That costs like 5 or 10 dollars from the Orlux site.

Glenn

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 1:29 PM

Subject: Jeff Lukacsena: does anyone use Linux with Jaws

 

Hello List,

I was wondering if anyone on here uses Linux with Jaws.

What version of Jaws are you using?

How successful is it.

Where can I learn more about it?

Do I need any other software to make it work?

Thanks,

Jeff Lukacsena

 


moderated Re: kortana screen

Bill White
 

Hi, Juan. The only two ways to terminate Cortana are as follows, first, you can terminate Cortana through the Task Manager as some have said, or you can terminate it through the settings window as follows,

 

To Terminate Cortana

 

1. Open Windows Settings with Windows key plus I.

2. TAB to the list of Settings categories.

3. Right Arrow to Apps, and press ENTER.

4. TAB about nine times to the list of apps.

5. Arrow down to Cortana, and press ENTER.

6. TAB to Advanced Options, and press ENTER.

7. TAB to the Terminate button, and press ENTER.

 

Bill White

 

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Juan Hernandez
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 7:34 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: kortana screen

 

HI All,

 

I have this weird window that is called kortana where it has a edit box to type stuff to her, and a voice button to enable speaking to her.  I can’t seem to get rid of it though, it stays in my alt+tab order.  Does anyone know how to get rid of it?

 

Best,

 

Juan


moderated Re: Jeff Lukacsena: does anyone use Linux with Jaws

Glenn / Lenny
 

Hi Jeff,
Jaws only works on the Microsoft operating systems.
Linux is more akin to the Mac OS, or I should say, Apple's OS is based on Linux.
Linux has a screenreader called Orca, and it comes with many distros of Linux.
Many of the keyboard commands in Linux are the same as in windows, just because they are common, like alt tab and alt F4 for example, and in Linux, you don't have to deal with ribbons, it still uses regular menus.
In Linux you can install the TTS called Voxin, which is what Jaws users know as Eloquence.
That costs like 5 or 10 dollars from the Orlux site.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 1:29 PM
Subject: Jeff Lukacsena: does anyone use Linux with Jaws

Hello List,

I was wondering if anyone on here uses Linux with Jaws.

What version of Jaws are you using?

How successful is it.

Where can I learn more about it?

Do I need any other software to make it work?

Thanks,

Jeff Lukacsena

 


moderated Re: Jeff Lukacsena: does anyone use Linux with Jaws

 

JAWS is a Windows only program.  It has not been ported to other OSes and I  doubt it ever will be.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Jeff Lukacsena: does anyone use Linux with Jaws

Jeff Lukacsena
 

Hello List,

I was wondering if anyone on here uses Linux with Jaws.

What version of Jaws are you using?

How successful is it.

Where can I learn more about it?

Do I need any other software to make it work?

Thanks,

Jeff Lukacsena

 


moderated Re: if you were getting a new computer.

Albert Cutolo
 

Good afternoon everyone, 

 

After reading all of the back and forth regarding this issue,  I believe that most of the people that are on this list, don’t have received  either the training or have the skill that would be necessary to perform some these tasks.  In most cases where you get some training, you only get those tasks that are necessary too perform a job where you use either word, and some training on how to use email and the  internet.  In other words, for what some of you might have  expertise in, you don’t get computer emersion in.  I applaud those of         you who have the knowledge that you do.   


moderated Re: if you were getting a new computer.

Glenn / Lenny
 


My son had a work laptop that got dropped, and the HD was clicking, and not booting, and he needed some info from it.
I would have not tried this, but if the alternative is to lose your data, then what is there to lose by opening the drive.
Data recovery people talk about only opening a drive in a "clean room", which makes sense, but all that gets expensive.
But he opened it and moved the stuck part and put it together and was able to retrieve the data.
Companies will charge you over a thousand bucks for data retrieval, and that was not an option here.
Sometimes people are squeamish about trying to fix something, but again, if the alternative is the trash, then I say give it a try.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: if you were getting a new computer.

I can say, though, that I am actually heartened that a serious and spontaneous discussion of backup media has occurred, period.

One of the dumbest things that many computer owners continue to persist with is NOT taking regular cyclic backups.  Most of my worst service calls are due to drive failures where no backup, whether just of user data or a full system image, exists.  The last client I had who had a drive failure (with a HDD, in this case, and he kept trying to fire the machine up and could hear it making noise - an absolute no-no) had a drive so badly damaged that even a professional data recovery company could not recover his data (or at least more than 70% of it, which allows the customer to reject the recovery if less than 70%).  He lost years of stuff including digital photos, documents, etc.

Taking full system image backups as well as separate user data backups on a regular, cyclic basis really should be considered a basic task of computer ownership, and both are easy.  Windows 10 has an excellent built-in utility for user data backups, File History (though I tweak the defaults to make it keep far fewer versions of individual files, and for less time prior to the last time the file was updated).  There are myriad options for full system image backups, which have been recently discussed on this very group.

In the end, I care far less about any given user being able to do their own recovery than that they have a backup that someone can do the recovery from.  If you can DIY, that's great, but a very great many individuals can't, nor do they want to.  But taking the backups so that they're available if ever needed is something that the owner or primary user of a given computer should be doing as a matter of course.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated One drive

Cook, Steve
 

How can a person determine how much space is remaining using One Drive.

 

Steve


moderated Re: if you were getting a new computer.

 

Hi,

Besides RAM, what’s more important for virtual machines is the load on the processor. I myself have configured 4 GB for all my virtual machines out of 16 GB of physical RAM on the computer I’m typing this email. Thankfully UEFI on this system is set to enable hardware-assisted virtualization, and not all vendors enable this feature in firmware. Although binary translation or software-based virtualization may work (and is compatible with older processors), hardware-assisted solutions such as Intel VTX and AMD-V improves virtualization performance significantly, especially for guest operating systems that can detect presence of a hypervisor such as VMware and Hyper-V and can optimize their inner workings. Again not everyone might be using a virtualization solution or need sophisticated hardware if they don’t need this feature (virtualization is useful if you do need to run different operating systems such as older Windows releases (or if you are testing really bleeding-edge code every week) for any reason, especially if a program or two would not work on newer operating systems despite attempts to do so such as compatibility mode).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 10:39 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: if you were getting a new computer.

 

On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 01:34 PM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:

So it would be nice to have enough RAM to have all them running at one time without rebooting, and simply alt tab between them, which is what I do now with VmWare, but with 8GB of RAM, having even two open at one time slows down my system.

-
Even if you gave each 12 GB of RAM, which would be very generous, the total would be 36 GB.  I'd never even go that high.  I'd be shocked if 16 GB to 24 GB would not be more than sufficient the way that memory management is handled, by all the OSes you name, these days.

64 GB is unlikely to ever be fully exploited, and that's under really, really heavy-duty use.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: if you were getting a new computer.

Thomas N. Chan
 

I will agree with Bryan

Regards,
Thomas N. Chan


On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 at 01:30, Tyler Wood <tcwood12@...> wrote:

Hi,

Yes, definitely a hard drive for my backup medium here.

The 3 2 1 approach is always a good thing – I can, for instance, highly recommend backblaze’s single computer backup service. It has been reliable, accessible, and utterly, wonderfully easy.

thanks

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 12:01 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: if you were getting a new computer.

 

I agree with Brian... :) using a SSD for backup is not a good practice. Like he said hdd's give warnings of failure. But that is rare. I have drives that are creeping up on 10 years old and still work. Although I should probably retire them now that I think of just how old they are getting.

On 4/16/2021 7:40 AM, Alan Lemly wrote:

Richard's statement made me pause too. Conventional hard disk drives have been around since the mid 1980s and have gotten better, more reliable, and less expensive during that time. They are much more reliable as a backup medium as opposed to SSDs which are still evolving and expensive in my opinion.

 

Alan Lemly 

 

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From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> on behalf of Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 8:52:21 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Re: if you were getting a new computer.

 

On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 09:38 AM, Richard Turner wrote:

I would not put the files I value on an HD drive these days since the price of SSD has come down so far.

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I really do not understand this statement, and I say that as a professional computer tech.

I personally prefer SSDs for OS drives just due to the speed factor, but definitely not for reliability or recoverability.  All of my personal backup drives are HDDs because they are very reliable (and have been for decades now) and will generally give you lots of warning signs before failure.  SSDs have a tendency to be very much like jump drives, SD cards, and similar in that when they decide to die they just up and die.  And I can definitely say that the cost of data recovery from SSDs (and other similar media) is far more expensive and less certain than HDDs.

I wouldn't even think of using an SSD as my primary backup media.  Until they become far less inclined to sudden death, and until data recovery probability goes way up and costs go way down, I'll use HDDs as backup media.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide

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Brian.
As IT administrator and network engineer , I will never use SSD as backup media. Its fast, no doubt but their lifespan for read and write are far more shorter than normal spinning drives.
For a physical server, its fine. they need speed to read and write. I don't want to get into the topic of enterprise class SSD. Its way too expensive for a consumer would like to pay.
For backup, we either use two type of media.
1. off premise storage which can include physical spinning drives, tapes. We don't use optical drives, relaibility and storage limitations.
2. Cloud storage but we are still paying for someone or AWS or even  azure to host for us. 
3. We use differential or incremental backup to handle huge  databases on our local network off peak time. Once that backup is done, it will be backup or sync off premise.


moderated Re: if you were getting a new computer.

 

On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 01:34 PM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:
So it would be nice to have enough RAM to have all them running at one time without rebooting, and simply alt tab between them, which is what I do now with VmWare, but with 8GB of RAM, having even two open at one time slows down my system.
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Even if you gave each 12 GB of RAM, which would be very generous, the total would be 36 GB.  I'd never even go that high.  I'd be shocked if 16 GB to 24 GB would not be more than sufficient the way that memory management is handled, by all the OSes you name, these days.

64 GB is unlikely to ever be fully exploited, and that's under really, really heavy-duty use.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: if you were getting a new computer.

 

On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 01:01 PM, Randy Barnett wrote:
Although I should probably retire them now that I think of just how old they are getting.
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Age really generally has a lot less to do with it than hours in service or, more precisely, how many times a drive has had to spin up.  The biggest stresses on a HDD occur when it is spinning up from rest.  Once it's up and spinning, it's quite a bit like a gyroscope and it takes minimum effort on the motor to keep it spinning.

Many backup drives get used very seldom, only when backing up, and even if that's twice a month, 24 spin-ups per year is far fewer than many internal drives get from people shutting down (or restarting, sleeping or hibernating) the machine.

If you look at the SMART stats for most backup drives compared to most system drives (or even data drives that are internal and constantly used) most will be proverbial "babes in the woods" even after years of service.
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Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide

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