Date   

moderated Re: OpenBook training materials

Richard Turner
 

What is more frustrating, is the PDF version needs to have OCR done on it...



Richard
"The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it."
- John Ruskin, 1819-1900

Web site: www.turner42.com

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Turner
Sent: Thursday, April 8, 2021 7:03 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: OpenBook training materials

Here is the link to the documentation page where you can get the user guide in txt or pdf as well as the quick start guide.

They do not offer it in html, audio, or DAISY...


https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsupport.freedomscientific.com%2FProducts%2FBlindness%2FOpenBookDocumentation&;data=04%7C01%7C%7Cfd864fca251c428e328908d8fa970ad0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637534873909150060%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=Y7MnU%2F11AySJ4dw8sAIvc9x%2BGyvG5RBM2PUtqIdO%2FSI%3D&amp;reserved=0



Richard
"The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it."
- John Ruskin, 1819-1900

Web site: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.turner42.com%2F&;data=04%7C01%7C%7Cfd864fca251c428e328908d8fa970ad0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637534873909150060%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=mUN9Hc1AmL9WGPy76VA%2BCpMFr0O4zSuChnNz9zy33EM%3D&amp;reserved=0



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Tessore
Sent: Thursday, April 8, 2021 6:28 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: OpenBook training materials

OK Ann Byrne, is there a URL one can go to to get this detailed Openbook manual? Or must one request a copy from the manufacturer?

Shalom,

Bill Tessore
billtessore@gmail.com
On Apr 8, 2021, at 5:46 AM, Ann Byrne <annakb@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

There is a manual which gives detailed instructions.
. At 07:43 AM 4/8/2021, you wrote:

Hi,

Why is there no OpenBook training materials to download as daisy or mp3?



Andrew







moderated Re: OpenBook training materials

Richard Turner
 

Here is the link to the documentation page where you can get the user guide in txt or pdf as well as the quick start guide.

They do not offer it in html, audio, or DAISY...


https://support.freedomscientific.com/Products/Blindness/OpenBookDocumentation



Richard
"The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it."
- John Ruskin, 1819-1900

Web site: www.turner42.com

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Tessore
Sent: Thursday, April 8, 2021 6:28 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: OpenBook training materials

OK Ann Byrne, is there a URL one can go to to get this detailed Openbook manual? Or must one request a copy from the manufacturer?

Shalom,

Bill Tessore
billtessore@gmail.com
On Apr 8, 2021, at 5:46 AM, Ann Byrne <annakb@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

There is a manual which gives detailed instructions.
. At 07:43 AM 4/8/2021, you wrote:

Hi,

Why is there no OpenBook training materials to download as daisy or mp3?



Andrew







moderated Re: OpenBook training materials

Loy
 

Here is a link to the manual. I found it by searching Freedomscientific for
"OpenBook Manual"
https://support.freedomscientific.com/Content/Documents/Manuals/OpenBook/OpenBook-Manual.pdf

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Tessore" <billtessore@gmail.com>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, April 8, 2021 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: OpenBook training materials


OK Ann Byrne, is there a URL one can go to to get this detailed Openbook
manual? Or must one request a copy from the manufacturer?

Shalom,

Bill Tessore
billtessore@gmail.com
On Apr 8, 2021, at 5:46 AM, Ann Byrne <annakb@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

There is a manual which gives detailed instructions.
. At 07:43 AM 4/8/2021, you wrote:

Hi,

Why is there no OpenBook training materials to download as daisy or mp3?



Andrew







moderated Re: OpenBook training materials

Ann Byrne
 

Hi, Bill,

I am working till noon; will look up the link then.

Ann

At 08:28 AM 4/8/2021, you wrote:
OK Ann Byrne, is there a URL one can go to to get this detailed Openbook manual? Or must one request a copy from the manufacturer?

Shalom,

Bill Tessore
billtessore@gmail.com
On Apr 8, 2021, at 5:46 AM, Ann Byrne <annakb@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

There is a manual which gives detailed instructions.
. At 07:43 AM 4/8/2021, you wrote:

Hi,

Why is there no OpenBook training materials to download as daisy or mp3?



Andrew








moderated Re: OpenBook training materials

Bill Tessore
 

OK Ann Byrne, is there a URL one can go to to get this detailed Openbook manual? Or must one request a copy from the manufacturer?

Shalom,

Bill Tessore
billtessore@gmail.com

On Apr 8, 2021, at 5:46 AM, Ann Byrne <annakb@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

There is a manual which gives detailed instructions.
. At 07:43 AM 4/8/2021, you wrote:

Hi,

Why is there no OpenBook training materials to download as daisy or mp3?



Andrew







moderated Re: OpenBook training materials

Ann Byrne
 

There is a manual which gives detailed instructions.
. At 07:43 AM 4/8/2021, you wrote:

Hi,

Why is there no OpenBook training materials to download as daisy or mp3?



Andrew



moderated OpenBook training materials

Andrew Summers
 

Hi,

Why is there no OpenBook training materials to download as daisy or mp3?

 

Andrew

 


moderated Re: email clients

 

Brian,

 

Thanks. I appreciate the facts and logic you've provided on updates and you've swayed me to drop my bias.

 

Alan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2021 10:30 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Alan,

          I no longer remember how or whether Windows 7 archives the updates that are applied, but Windows 10 keeps track of virtually any update applied to any Microsoft supplied program on the machine.

           I can absolutely assure you, as I used Office 2010 up until about 2, maybe 3, years ago, there is (or was, now) a constant stream of updates to the various Office programs even for 2010.  On this machine before I finally got rid of a last bit that the Office 2010 uninstaller left behind I was getting updates for Office 2010.  The last one I got was, February 2, 2021, update for Office 2010 (KB4493180).  So, as per usual, Microsoft does continue issuing certain updates even after they claim a given product is officially out of support.  This drives me crazy because it sends a really crappy mixed message.  But I dumped Office 2010 simply because it was "showing its age" and there were some features introduced in later versions of Office that I thought might come in handy.  Don't ask me what those were, as that water's so far under the bridge that I cannot recall what it was that finally pushed me to change.

If Windows 7 does update logging you will find these somewhere in that log.  They're classed as "Quality Updates" under the Windows 10 update logging scheme.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


moderated Re: email clients

 

On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 11:33 PM, Alan Lemly wrote:
But I still think the best security when using one's computer is to apply your own common sense when choosing what to interact with.
-
About which you will get zero, and I mean zero, argument from me.  Developing safe interaction habits with cyberspace is the very, very best thing anyone can do to keep themselves safe.

This is an opportunity, for which I thank you, to repost the following:
---

Quietman7, a security expert who is an active contributor on Bleeping Computer, has written extensively on what you (any you) need to do to develop safe interaction habits with cyberspace.  The following four are, in my opinion, must-reads:

·         Users Themselves Are The Most Substantial Weakness In The Security Chain  (just that single message)

·         What you must understand regarding computer security  (also just this single message)

·         Best Practices for Safe Computing

·         Reflections on Antivirus/Antimalware Testing & Comparisons

--
One of the most important things he says is this:   Security is all about layers and not depending on any one solution, technology or approach to protect yourself from cyber-criminals. The most important layer is you...the first and last line of defense.

One of the most common misconceptions is that you, the end user, are not the first and last line of defense and that you can rely on things like security suites to protect you from all potential attacks.  You can't, and if you follow even most of the Best Practices for Safe Computing your security suite is very unlikely to ever flag anything.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


moderated Re: email clients

 

Thanks, Adrian. You make some excellent points and I'm adapting my thinking on Microsoft Office updates.

 

Alan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2021 9:28 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Alan,

 

I’m no techie, and I believe you’re more sophisticated than I in this area, but I believe your password protection is designed to guard against only an unauthorized user from gaining access to your application and system. I don’t know if MS maintains security for Office 2010 against other kinds of breaches. With Office 2016 and 2019, the updates MS periodically makes available presumably concentrate on security, updates that don’t tend to create new problems for users.

 

All the best.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alan Lemly
Sent: Wednesday, April 7, 2021 8:22 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

HI Adrian,

 

I got into this whole Office update thing because I recently got a new Windows 10 computer and am getting more concerned about Outlook 2010 being considered an insecure app. I was able to turn on 2 step verification for my Google Gmail account and add an app password to my Outlook 2010. Now that I believe that's under control, I think I'm just going to install Office 2010 Pro on my new computer and see how it goes.  Now I have to research moving my Outlook POP3 account to IMAP without losing my calendar and contacts as I move from my Windows 7 to my Windows 10 computer. That will be something to keep my mind occupied. I placed one of those Microsoft Office 2019 Pro licenses in my shopping cart on eBay but I'm going to think about it a bit before spending the $69.

 

Alan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2021 2:30 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Alan,

 

I share your concern about Office 365’s automatic updating model. Have you considered, instead, Office 2019? I’ve read favorable reports on these lists. I have Office 2016, which works fine, but it looks as though 2019 has improvements.

 

I haven’t red this entire thread, so I apologize if I’m repeating what has already been said.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alan Lemly
Sent: Wednesday, April 7, 2021 2:03 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Sieghard,

 

Thanks for the recommendation. My main issue with Microsoft 365 Personal is being able to control when the component apps are updated. I really don't like my computer or its resident software doing my thinking for me. Is it possible to get Microsoft 365 and turn off automatic app updates?

 

Alan Lemly

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2021 9:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

If cost isn't an issue I recommend Microsoft 365 because as long as you also run the latest version of Jaws you will typically get the best experience. I say typically because I have once or twice experienced situations where an Office update may have cause temporary issues, but since Microsoft Accessibility as well as Jaws usually are made aware of these such issues usually don't last too long before a fix from Microsoft or Jaws addresses the problem.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alan Lemly
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:04 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Brian,

 

I understand about security updates and their importance and expect it's time to move to a newer version of Microsoft Office. I'm not a fan of subscription models and their continuous updates and believe the best security for one's computer is smart practices for how it's used. Now I just need to decide which perpetual version of Office I can still obtain at a reasonable price.

 

Alan lemly

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2021 12:05 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:11 AM, Alan Lemly wrote:

don't believe I've received any support from Microsoft during that time including before 10/13/20 when it was still supported.

-
Support is not tech support, or at least that's not what's meant.

Microsoft (or any other software maker) supporting a product means that they do what's necessary to keep it safe to use as circumstances change.  The most important part of software support is security patches.

I am not telling you, or anyone else, what they may or may not choose to do.  But you have not been getting any significant maintenance and patching since last October, and using things like e-mail clients and web browsers that are out of support is using a wide open attack surface as time marches on.

I can't say that I've never, ever used anything that is out-of-support but what I have used does not have any contact with cyberspace.  That's not possible with an email client or web browser.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


moderated Re: email clients

 

Brian,

 

I agree completely regarding Excel and Word and as I said in my last post, I'm becoming a convert to agreeing with the necessity of security updates especially with Outlook. But I still think the best security when using one's computer is to apply your own common sense when choosing what to interact with.

 

Thanks for your continual preaching on the security updates and focusing on their positive aspects while I adapt away from my negative outlook.

 

Alan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2021 8:24 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Alan,

           The amount of "exposure" is really pretty much dependent on how much you directly interact with cyberspace with any of these programs.  It's entirely possible to almost entirely avoid interacting with cyberspace with programs like Word or Excel (or PowerPoint or Publisher, too).  But the same cannot be said of any e-mail client or web browser.  This is why I limit my real concern for those two classes of program for the most part.

            And the need for constantly upgraded security (which means updates) is never going away.  If anything, the pace is increasing.  Just today, on BleepingComputer, is an article about the latest, greatest breach:  Microsoft's Windows 10, Exchange, and Teams hacked at Pwn2Own.  There's always the next very clever nefarious actor that you need to thwart.  It's an endless cat and mouse game.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


moderated Re: email clients

 

Alan,

          I no longer remember how or whether Windows 7 archives the updates that are applied, but Windows 10 keeps track of virtually any update applied to any Microsoft supplied program on the machine.

           I can absolutely assure you, as I used Office 2010 up until about 2, maybe 3, years ago, there is (or was, now) a constant stream of updates to the various Office programs even for 2010.  On this machine before I finally got rid of a last bit that the Office 2010 uninstaller left behind I was getting updates for Office 2010.  The last one I got was, February 2, 2021, update for Office 2010 (KB4493180).  So, as per usual, Microsoft does continue issuing certain updates even after they claim a given product is officially out of support.  This drives me crazy because it sends a really crappy mixed message.  But I dumped Office 2010 simply because it was "showing its age" and there were some features introduced in later versions of Office that I thought might come in handy.  Don't ask me what those were, as that water's so far under the bridge that I cannot recall what it was that finally pushed me to change.

If Windows 7 does update logging you will find these somewhere in that log.  They're classed as "Quality Updates" under the Windows 10 update logging scheme.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


moderated Re: email clients

 

Brian,

 

Thanks for your knowledge and comments about updates. That is why I'm on these lists to get the benefit of others who know a lot more than I do on these things. I'll be more open-minded than I have been in the past as I transition from my old computer running Windows 7 to my new computer with Windows 10 and the version of Office Pro I select.

 

Alan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2021 8:09 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 08:24 PM, Judy wrote:

Alan, can you still purchase office 2019?

-
One can, but if you're under the impression that this means you don't get updates, you're mistaken.

Office has been "self-updating" at least since Office 2016, possibly Office 2013.

And, as an IT professional (and taking accessibility into account), I fear the lack of updates far more than I fear updates.  As has been pointed out, when an update breaks something it's usually patched by another update in short order.

Automatic updating is a fact of life and, in the big picture, a godsend, warts and all.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


moderated Re: email clients

Adrian Spratt
 

Alan,

 

I’m no techie, and I believe you’re more sophisticated than I in this area, but I believe your password protection is designed to guard against only an unauthorized user from gaining access to your application and system. I don’t know if MS maintains security for Office 2010 against other kinds of breaches. With Office 2016 and 2019, the updates MS periodically makes available presumably concentrate on security, updates that don’t tend to create new problems for users.

 

All the best.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alan Lemly
Sent: Wednesday, April 7, 2021 8:22 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

HI Adrian,

 

I got into this whole Office update thing because I recently got a new Windows 10 computer and am getting more concerned about Outlook 2010 being considered an insecure app. I was able to turn on 2 step verification for my Google Gmail account and add an app password to my Outlook 2010. Now that I believe that's under control, I think I'm just going to install Office 2010 Pro on my new computer and see how it goes.  Now I have to research moving my Outlook POP3 account to IMAP without losing my calendar and contacts as I move from my Windows 7 to my Windows 10 computer. That will be something to keep my mind occupied. I placed one of those Microsoft Office 2019 Pro licenses in my shopping cart on eBay but I'm going to think about it a bit before spending the $69.

 

Alan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2021 2:30 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Alan,

 

I share your concern about Office 365’s automatic updating model. Have you considered, instead, Office 2019? I’ve read favorable reports on these lists. I have Office 2016, which works fine, but it looks as though 2019 has improvements.

 

I haven’t red this entire thread, so I apologize if I’m repeating what has already been said.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alan Lemly
Sent: Wednesday, April 7, 2021 2:03 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Sieghard,

 

Thanks for the recommendation. My main issue with Microsoft 365 Personal is being able to control when the component apps are updated. I really don't like my computer or its resident software doing my thinking for me. Is it possible to get Microsoft 365 and turn off automatic app updates?

 

Alan Lemly

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2021 9:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

If cost isn't an issue I recommend Microsoft 365 because as long as you also run the latest version of Jaws you will typically get the best experience. I say typically because I have once or twice experienced situations where an Office update may have cause temporary issues, but since Microsoft Accessibility as well as Jaws usually are made aware of these such issues usually don't last too long before a fix from Microsoft or Jaws addresses the problem.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alan Lemly
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:04 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Brian,

 

I understand about security updates and their importance and expect it's time to move to a newer version of Microsoft Office. I'm not a fan of subscription models and their continuous updates and believe the best security for one's computer is smart practices for how it's used. Now I just need to decide which perpetual version of Office I can still obtain at a reasonable price.

 

Alan lemly

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2021 12:05 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:11 AM, Alan Lemly wrote:

don't believe I've received any support from Microsoft during that time including before 10/13/20 when it was still supported.

-
Support is not tech support, or at least that's not what's meant.

Microsoft (or any other software maker) supporting a product means that they do what's necessary to keep it safe to use as circumstances change.  The most important part of software support is security patches.

I am not telling you, or anyone else, what they may or may not choose to do.  But you have not been getting any significant maintenance and patching since last October, and using things like e-mail clients and web browsers that are out of support is using a wide open attack surface as time marches on.

I can't say that I've never, ever used anything that is out-of-support but what I have used does not have any contact with cyberspace.  That's not possible with an email client or web browser.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


moderated Re: email clients

 

Alan,

           The amount of "exposure" is really pretty much dependent on how much you directly interact with cyberspace with any of these programs.  It's entirely possible to almost entirely avoid interacting with cyberspace with programs like Word or Excel (or PowerPoint or Publisher, too).  But the same cannot be said of any e-mail client or web browser.  This is why I limit my real concern for those two classes of program for the most part.

            And the need for constantly upgraded security (which means updates) is never going away.  If anything, the pace is increasing.  Just today, on BleepingComputer, is an article about the latest, greatest breach:  Microsoft's Windows 10, Exchange, and Teams hacked at Pwn2Own.  There's always the next very clever nefarious actor that you need to thwart.  It's an endless cat and mouse game.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


moderated Re: email clients

 

Hi Shan,

 

Maybe you could explain to me what the security risk is for using Excel 2010 or Word 2010? No software can be made that is risk-free to being attacked if one uses them without using common sense as to the spreadsheets and documents they load into them. I've done fine using older versions of Office programs through the years by exercising common sense in how I use them and will continue to operate that way rather than paying Microsoft continually to update something I really don't want updated in the first place.

 

Alan Lemly

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shan Noyes
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2021 7:58 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

If you’re running office 2010 there is more probably one should worry about in terms of security then outlook 2010 what about XL 2010 and word 2010 just a thought have a good day



On Apr 7, 2021, at 6:21 PM, Alan Lemly <walemly@...> wrote:



HI Adrian,

 

I got into this whole Office update thing because I recently got a new Windows 10 computer and am getting more concerned about Outlook 2010 being considered an insecure app. I was able to turn on 2 step verification for my Google Gmail account and add an app password to my Outlook 2010. Now that I believe that's under control, I think I'm just going to install Office 2010 Pro on my new computer and see how it goes.  Now I have to research moving my Outlook POP3 account to IMAP without losing my calendar and contacts as I move from my Windows 7 to my Windows 10 computer. That will be something to keep my mind occupied. I placed one of those Microsoft Office 2019 Pro licenses in my shopping cart on eBay but I'm going to think about it a bit before spending the $69.

 

Alan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2021 2:30 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Alan,

 

I share your concern about Office 365’s automatic updating model. Have you considered, instead, Office 2019? I’ve read favorable reports on these lists. I have Office 2016, which works fine, but it looks as though 2019 has improvements.

 

I haven’t red this entire thread, so I apologize if I’m repeating what has already been said.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alan Lemly
Sent: Wednesday, April 7, 2021 2:03 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Sieghard,

 

Thanks for the recommendation. My main issue with Microsoft 365 Personal is being able to control when the component apps are updated. I really don't like my computer or its resident software doing my thinking for me. Is it possible to get Microsoft 365 and turn off automatic app updates?

 

Alan Lemly

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2021 9:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

If cost isn't an issue I recommend Microsoft 365 because as long as you also run the latest version of Jaws you will typically get the best experience. I say typically because I have once or twice experienced situations where an Office update may have cause temporary issues, but since Microsoft Accessibility as well as Jaws usually are made aware of these such issues usually don't last too long before a fix from Microsoft or Jaws addresses the problem.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alan Lemly
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:04 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Brian,

 

I understand about security updates and their importance and expect it's time to move to a newer version of Microsoft Office. I'm not a fan of subscription models and their continuous updates and believe the best security for one's computer is smart practices for how it's used. Now I just need to decide which perpetual version of Office I can still obtain at a reasonable price.

 

Alan lemly

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2021 12:05 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:11 AM, Alan Lemly wrote:

don't believe I've received any support from Microsoft during that time including before 10/13/20 when it was still supported.

-
Support is not tech support, or at least that's not what's meant.

Microsoft (or any other software maker) supporting a product means that they do what's necessary to keep it safe to use as circumstances change.  The most important part of software support is security patches.

I am not telling you, or anyone else, what they may or may not choose to do.  But you have not been getting any significant maintenance and patching since last October, and using things like e-mail clients and web browsers that are out of support is using a wide open attack surface as time marches on.

I can't say that I've never, ever used anything that is out-of-support but what I have used does not have any contact with cyberspace.  That's not possible with an email client or web browser.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


moderated Why can't we navigate by block quote in MS Word

Mark
 

In MS Word, we can style text to be a block quote. But it's not possible to use JAWS navigation keys to go to the block quotes in Word. Does anyone know why?


moderated Re: email clients

 

On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 08:24 PM, Judy wrote:
Alan, can you still purchase office 2019?
-
One can, but if you're under the impression that this means you don't get updates, you're mistaken.

Office has been "self-updating" at least since Office 2016, possibly Office 2013.

And, as an IT professional (and taking accessibility into account), I fear the lack of updates far more than I fear updates.  As has been pointed out, when an update breaks something it's usually patched by another update in short order.

Automatic updating is a fact of life and, in the big picture, a godsend, warts and all.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


moderated Re: email clients

 

Hi Judy,

 

I'm pretty sure you can still purchase Office 2019 Pro directly from Microsoft but probably for the cost of your first born. I was looking at the many sellers on eBay of the Microsoft Office licenses and you can find those selling Office 2016 Pro and Office 2019 Pro from about $60 on up.

 

Alan Lemly

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Judy
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2021 7:24 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Alan, can you still purchase office 2019? Thanks for this info. Judy & Libby

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Wednesday, April 7, 2021 3:30 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Alan,

 

I share your concern about Office 365’s automatic updating model. Have you considered, instead, Office 2019? I’ve read favorable reports on these lists. I have Office 2016, which works fine, but it looks as though 2019 has improvements.

 

I haven’t red this entire thread, so I apologize if I’m repeating what has already been said.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alan Lemly
Sent: Wednesday, April 7, 2021 2:03 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Sieghard,

 

Thanks for the recommendation. My main issue with Microsoft 365 Personal is being able to control when the component apps are updated. I really don't like my computer or its resident software doing my thinking for me. Is it possible to get Microsoft 365 and turn off automatic app updates?

 

Alan Lemly

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2021 9:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

If cost isn't an issue I recommend Microsoft 365 because as long as you also run the latest version of Jaws you will typically get the best experience. I say typically because I have once or twice experienced situations where an Office update may have cause temporary issues, but since Microsoft Accessibility as well as Jaws usually are made aware of these such issues usually don't last too long before a fix from Microsoft or Jaws addresses the problem.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alan Lemly
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:04 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Brian,

 

I understand about security updates and their importance and expect it's time to move to a newer version of Microsoft Office. I'm not a fan of subscription models and their continuous updates and believe the best security for one's computer is smart practices for how it's used. Now I just need to decide which perpetual version of Office I can still obtain at a reasonable price.

 

Alan lemly

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2021 12:05 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:11 AM, Alan Lemly wrote:

don't believe I've received any support from Microsoft during that time including before 10/13/20 when it was still supported.

-
Support is not tech support, or at least that's not what's meant.

Microsoft (or any other software maker) supporting a product means that they do what's necessary to keep it safe to use as circumstances change.  The most important part of software support is security patches.

I am not telling you, or anyone else, what they may or may not choose to do.  But you have not been getting any significant maintenance and patching since last October, and using things like e-mail clients and web browsers that are out of support is using a wide open attack surface as time marches on.

I can't say that I've never, ever used anything that is out-of-support but what I have used does not have any contact with cyberspace.  That's not possible with an email client or web browser.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


moderated Re: email clients

Shan Noyes
 

If you’re running office 2010 there is more probably one should worry about in terms of security then outlook 2010 what about XL 2010 and word 2010 just a thought have a good day


On Apr 7, 2021, at 6:21 PM, Alan Lemly <walemly@...> wrote:



HI Adrian,

 

I got into this whole Office update thing because I recently got a new Windows 10 computer and am getting more concerned about Outlook 2010 being considered an insecure app. I was able to turn on 2 step verification for my Google Gmail account and add an app password to my Outlook 2010. Now that I believe that's under control, I think I'm just going to install Office 2010 Pro on my new computer and see how it goes.  Now I have to research moving my Outlook POP3 account to IMAP without losing my calendar and contacts as I move from my Windows 7 to my Windows 10 computer. That will be something to keep my mind occupied. I placed one of those Microsoft Office 2019 Pro licenses in my shopping cart on eBay but I'm going to think about it a bit before spending the $69.

 

Alan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2021 2:30 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Alan,

 

I share your concern about Office 365’s automatic updating model. Have you considered, instead, Office 2019? I’ve read favorable reports on these lists. I have Office 2016, which works fine, but it looks as though 2019 has improvements.

 

I haven’t red this entire thread, so I apologize if I’m repeating what has already been said.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alan Lemly
Sent: Wednesday, April 7, 2021 2:03 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Sieghard,

 

Thanks for the recommendation. My main issue with Microsoft 365 Personal is being able to control when the component apps are updated. I really don't like my computer or its resident software doing my thinking for me. Is it possible to get Microsoft 365 and turn off automatic app updates?

 

Alan Lemly

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2021 9:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

If cost isn't an issue I recommend Microsoft 365 because as long as you also run the latest version of Jaws you will typically get the best experience. I say typically because I have once or twice experienced situations where an Office update may have cause temporary issues, but since Microsoft Accessibility as well as Jaws usually are made aware of these such issues usually don't last too long before a fix from Microsoft or Jaws addresses the problem.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alan Lemly
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:04 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Brian,

 

I understand about security updates and their importance and expect it's time to move to a newer version of Microsoft Office. I'm not a fan of subscription models and their continuous updates and believe the best security for one's computer is smart practices for how it's used. Now I just need to decide which perpetual version of Office I can still obtain at a reasonable price.

 

Alan lemly

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2021 12:05 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:11 AM, Alan Lemly wrote:

don't believe I've received any support from Microsoft during that time including before 10/13/20 when it was still supported.

-
Support is not tech support, or at least that's not what's meant.

Microsoft (or any other software maker) supporting a product means that they do what's necessary to keep it safe to use as circumstances change.  The most important part of software support is security patches.

I am not telling you, or anyone else, what they may or may not choose to do.  But you have not been getting any significant maintenance and patching since last October, and using things like e-mail clients and web browsers that are out of support is using a wide open attack surface as time marches on.

I can't say that I've never, ever used anything that is out-of-support but what I have used does not have any contact with cyberspace.  That's not possible with an email client or web browser.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel

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