Date   

Re: Should there be an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared?

 

Randy,

          If you want to stop technology accessibility development in its tracks you will bring the government into it.  I say that as an ardent supporter of accessibility and government intervention where it can do good.

          If it is not extremely apparent that the non-technologically savvy being brought in to oversee technology is a recipe for disaster by now it never will be, particularly at the micromanaging level that would be making accessibility laws that would have virtually no applicability in a year or two.   Laws get very, very specific by their nature and the last thing I want or think would be for the good is a legalistic approach to accessibility on computers.  Most of those who would be in charge of crafting such legislation know absolutely nothing about the topic at all, and given what's involved would not likely dive into the research that would be needed such that the result would be in any way desirable.

          Those will be my last words about it, as having been in IT since the dawn of the PC era, and having watched how most revolutionary technologies have evolved (including ones like the worldwide web, which I incorrectly thought would be a complete flop and couldn't have been more wrong), I want the government as far away as possible from this arena, other than in regard to laws related to privacy protections not unlike those that were enacted just after the dawn of the telephone as mass communication device.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


Re: Skype 8.2 and its sounds

Morey Worthington
 

Thanks all for information..appreciate them all.
Morey


jaws and Adobe Connect

Rick Mladek
 

Hi,

 

New to this group. I have a need to learn Adobe Connect for training for work. Does anyone using JAWS 2018 use Adobe Connect and if so, do I need scripts or would you be open to offering some advice as an attendee of such meetings using this app?

 

Thank you,

 

Rick

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Should there be an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared?

David Ingram
 

Can you please tell us more about the conventions and how they can be applied?  What would be the best practices as it relates to making sure that making a program accessible for the visually impared is not an after thaught but something that the company puts in place for thos companies that are just starting.  The question is not only what to do about accessibility and the standards to make things happen. Lets say for example if I were to say that I want to become a music producer in order that I become a music producer, I would need to first of all have accessibility training on the music software that I plan to use.  This is something that is needed.  I want to get a degree in terms of a master or a doctorate.

-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Barnett
Sent: Aug 4, 2018 3:53 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Should there be an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared?

sorry I am working and was in a hurry. I was proposing  a law that is not up to the vendor to follow or not Make it required that all controls  and dialog required to operate a program can be read by screen readers. The 3 I mentioned were not meant to me exclusive but just an example of what defines a screen reader.
keep the language clear and not tied to any tech and make it compulsory.
On 8/4/2018 11:45 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sat, Aug 4, 2018 at 01:47 PM, Randy Barnett wrote:
You could write the rules so that they say: "All buttons and grapics have lables that can be read by screen readers such as Narrotor, Jaws or NVDA."
This language would not be tied to any technology and allow for change.
First, for the agreement.  You could write general conventions.  Such conventions already exist and have for some time.  They're just not consistently followed when new development is undertaken, which is the problem.

Now, for the disagreement:  JAWS, Narrator, and NVDA are all technologies to which what you are proposing as "the rule" are directly tied.  Screen reader technology is moving along at a pace right now that is far faster than it ever did in the past.  What objects even exist for accessibility are changing by the month as new web coding conventions come along, all of which *can* be made accessible if the forethought is there.

The issue here is not lack of conventions/standards/protocols, most of which can be easily extensible to new things as they arise.  The problem is that accessibility remains an afterthought, if it's thought about at all, by a very wide swath of the computing world.   The battle is to change that, and if and when its changed whatever changes need to occur, as they need to occur, to conventions for coding for accessibility will occur as well.

As a former programmer, and as a current assistive technology specialist, I know only too well that most accessibility barriers are the direct result of "just not thinking about it at all" and not employing the extensive existing best practices related to accessibility as part of "the standard operating procedure" when code is either being updated or created from scratch (and I'll use "code" broadly - most PDF forms and Microsoft forms could be made completely accessible if the people creating them knew how [and since a lot of them don't, since they're just random folks putting something together based on their immediate needs, the picture is all that much more complicated).
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


-- 
Sincerely: Randy Barnett
Owner of Soundtique.
Grants Pass, Or. 


Re: Skype 8.2 and its sounds

David Moore
 

Hi!

Any version of Skype can communicate with any other version of Skype on any other platform.

Skype 8.25 can communicate with Skype 7 on Windows 7.

Skype 8.25 on Windows 10, can communicate with the Skype app on an android phone!

Skype on an iPhone, can call you on Skype 8.25 for Windows 10.

You are not limited at all.

That is what is so great about Skype.

Any device can call any other device, and you can even call people’s phone for a small price.

You can set Skype 8.25 to answer a call by itself when someone calls you.

Just enter on settings, and go to phone, I believe, and you can check a box for Skype to automatically answer calls without you having to do anything.

That is another great advantage of Skype 8.25.

Have a great day!

David Moore

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Morey Worthington
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 5:40 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Skype 8.2 and its sounds

 

Hi All, I am back with Skype 8.2 for W10 questions.

 

1. Cand Skype interact with Skype 7 on a Windows 7 machine??

 

2. If someone calls me, what kind of sound will Skype make? When I make

a call a not familiar jingling sound is heard.

 

I have gone into the sounds menu in control panel, but cannot find

anything to change to.

 

Thanks for any help.

 

Morey Worthington

 

??

 

 

 

 


Re: Skype 8.2 and its sounds

inamuddin khan
 

Dear friend, there is no benefit of answering your first question because Skype 7’s life is about 26 days left.

Skype 7 will die on September first 2018 at least what Microsoft is saying it!

The sound you are talking is receiving sound of Skype call Skype has given the both ends the same sound!

With regards from Inamuddin with the Skype ID:

Charlsdarwin1

 

 

You can contact me via gmail:
inamuddin09@...

Inamuddin.ronaque@...

outlook:
inam092@...

yahoo:
inamuddin2010@...

Add my Skype ID:
charlsdarwin1
Meet me on facebook:
www.facebook.com/inamuddin786

Follow me on my twitter ID:
www.twitter.com/charlsdarwin1

Call me on my cell numbers:
+92-300-2227598 

+92-334-3348409

 

 

From: Morey Worthington
Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2018 2:40 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Skype 8.2 and its sounds

 

Hi All, I am back with Skype 8.2 for W10 questions.

 

1. Cand Skype interact with Skype 7 on a Windows 7 machine??

 

2. If someone calls me, what kind of sound will Skype make? When I make

a call a not familiar jingling sound is heard.

 

I have gone into the sounds menu in control panel, but cannot find

anything to change to.

 

Thanks for any help.

 

Morey Worthington

 

??

 

 

 

 


Skype 8.2 and its sounds

Morey Worthington
 

Hi All, I am back with Skype 8.2 for W10 questions.

1. Cand Skype interact with Skype 7 on a Windows 7 machine??

2. If someone calls me, what kind of sound will Skype make? When I make a call a not familiar jingling sound is heard.

I have gone into the sounds menu in control panel, but cannot find anything to change to.

Thanks for any help.

Morey Worthington

??


Re: Should there be an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared?

Randy Barnett <randy@...>
 

sorry I am working and was in a hurry. I was proposing  a law that is not up to the vendor to follow or not Make it required that all controls  and dialog required to operate a program can be read by screen readers. The 3 I mentioned were not meant to me exclusive but just an example of what defines a screen reader.
keep the language clear and not tied to any tech and make it compulsory.
On 8/4/2018 11:45 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sat, Aug 4, 2018 at 01:47 PM, Randy Barnett wrote:
You could write the rules so that they say: "All buttons and grapics have lables that can be read by screen readers such as Narrotor, Jaws or NVDA."
This language would not be tied to any technology and allow for change.
First, for the agreement.  You could write general conventions.  Such conventions already exist and have for some time.  They're just not consistently followed when new development is undertaken, which is the problem.

Now, for the disagreement:  JAWS, Narrator, and NVDA are all technologies to which what you are proposing as "the rule" are directly tied.  Screen reader technology is moving along at a pace right now that is far faster than it ever did in the past.  What objects even exist for accessibility are changing by the month as new web coding conventions come along, all of which *can* be made accessible if the forethought is there.

The issue here is not lack of conventions/standards/protocols, most of which can be easily extensible to new things as they arise.  The problem is that accessibility remains an afterthought, if it's thought about at all, by a very wide swath of the computing world.   The battle is to change that, and if and when its changed whatever changes need to occur, as they need to occur, to conventions for coding for accessibility will occur as well.

As a former programmer, and as a current assistive technology specialist, I know only too well that most accessibility barriers are the direct result of "just not thinking about it at all" and not employing the extensive existing best practices related to accessibility as part of "the standard operating procedure" when code is either being updated or created from scratch (and I'll use "code" broadly - most PDF forms and Microsoft forms could be made completely accessible if the people creating them knew how [and since a lot of them don't, since they're just random folks putting something together based on their immediate needs, the picture is all that much more complicated).
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


-- 
Sincerely: Randy Barnett
Owner of Soundtique.
Grants Pass, Or. 


Re: creating a shortcut in windows 10

Bill White <billwhite92701@...>
 

Hi, James. There is no run command for creating a shortcut in Windows 7.

Instead, go to:

Local Drive, Programs. Find the application you want to make a shortcut for, Press Applications key and arrow down to either New, or SendTo. If arrowing down to New, press ENTER on New, and then arrow down to Create Shortcut.

If Arrowing down to SendTo, Press ENTER, then Arrow down to Send to Desktop. You will probably want to rename the shortcut on the desktop to remove the .exe at the end of the shortcut name.

Bill White
billwhite92701@dslextreme.com

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Bentley
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 12:41 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: creating a shortcut in windows 10

Hi Bill,

Do you happen to know what I need to type in to the run menu to do the same
thing in Windows 7?

Thanks,

James B



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill White
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2018 1:01 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: creating a shortcut in windows 10

Open the Run dialog (Windows+R=run), type in:
shell:AppsFolder

and then press enter to view this folder.

Find an app you wish to create a shortcut for, right-click (applications
key, or, shift+f10 and choose Create shortcut from the pop-up menu that
appears.

You’ll be prompted that the shortcut cannot be placed here, and Windows will
recommend placing it on the desktop instead. Press enter on Yes A shortcut
with the name App-Name Shortcut (Mail Shortcut) will appear on the desktop.
You can leave this as-is, or rename it (I usually remove the word,
Shortcut). And you can of course move the shortcut to any folder as needed.

Now, just repeat for all the app shortcuts you need.

Bill White
billwhite92701@dslextreme.com


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jed Barton
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 9:29 AM
To: main
Subject: creating a shortcut in windows 10

Hey guys,

OK i have a program installed over here, and wanna create a shortcut.
I haven't done it in so long, i forgot how to. Any ideas? I can find
the app in programs but there doesn't appear to be a way to create a
shortcut.


Re: creating a shortcut in windows 10

James Bentley
 

Hi Bill,

Do you happen to know what I need to type in to the run menu to do the same thing in Windows 7?

Thanks,

James B

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill White
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2018 1:01 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: creating a shortcut in windows 10

Open the Run dialog (Windows+R=run), type in:
shell:AppsFolder

and then press enter to view this folder.

Find an app you wish to create a shortcut for, right-click (applications key, or, shift+f10 and choose Create shortcut from the pop-up menu that appears.

You’ll be prompted that the shortcut cannot be placed here, and Windows will recommend placing it on the desktop instead. Press enter on Yes A shortcut with the name App-Name Shortcut (Mail Shortcut) will appear on the desktop. You can leave this as-is, or rename it (I usually remove the word, Shortcut). And you can of course move the shortcut to any folder as needed.

Now, just repeat for all the app shortcuts you need.

Bill White
billwhite92701@dslextreme.com


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jed Barton
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 9:29 AM
To: main
Subject: creating a shortcut in windows 10

Hey guys,

OK i have a program installed over here, and wanna create a shortcut.
I haven't done it in so long, i forgot how to. Any ideas? I can find
the app in programs but there doesn't appear to be a way to create a
shortcut.


Re: creating a shortcut in windows 10

 

Mario,

          I have no control over how certain e-mail clients will present the actual "naked" URL for a click through link.

          I virtually never supply naked URLs for documents of my own creation and that reside on my Google Drive and I seldom supply them otherwise, either.  I expect people to consider the source and either use the click-through link I provide or go with whatever method they prefer to extract the naked URL from it.  All I know is that when the link I posted is clicked it should open a Save dialog so that the person can save a copy of the step-by-step instructions so they can refer to them in Microsoft Word while trying to carry them out.  When I click it that's what happens and the document itself is named, "Adding a Desktop Shortcut Under Windows 10.docx".

 

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


Re: creating a shortcut in windows 10

Mario
 

Brian, just to let you know when the address for a link is shown, I
usually prefer to copy it and paste it in the address bar of a browser
(using Firefox and Chrome), I received an error 400, bad request.

then I opened the email and copied the link address and compared it with
the one shown in your reply. the id has an extra k, which downloaded as
expected.

-------- Original Message --------
From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, Aug 4, 2018 12:40 PM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: creating a shortcut in windows 10

* Adding Desktop Shortcuts Under Windows 10 (
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B98uELZbPFnOejZOVWlyRVBYYzg
)

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

   The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in
the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


Re: Should there be an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared?

 

On Sat, Aug 4, 2018 at 01:47 PM, Randy Barnett wrote:
You could write the rules so that they say: "All buttons and grapics have lables that can be read by screen readers such as Narrotor, Jaws or NVDA."
This language would not be tied to any technology and allow for change.
First, for the agreement.  You could write general conventions.  Such conventions already exist and have for some time.  They're just not consistently followed when new development is undertaken, which is the problem.

Now, for the disagreement:  JAWS, Narrator, and NVDA are all technologies to which what you are proposing as "the rule" are directly tied.  Screen reader technology is moving along at a pace right now that is far faster than it ever did in the past.  What objects even exist for accessibility are changing by the month as new web coding conventions come along, all of which *can* be made accessible if the forethought is there.

The issue here is not lack of conventions/standards/protocols, most of which can be easily extensible to new things as they arise.  The problem is that accessibility remains an afterthought, if it's thought about at all, by a very wide swath of the computing world.   The battle is to change that, and if and when its changed whatever changes need to occur, as they need to occur, to conventions for coding for accessibility will occur as well.

As a former programmer, and as a current assistive technology specialist, I know only too well that most accessibility barriers are the direct result of "just not thinking about it at all" and not employing the extensive existing best practices related to accessibility as part of "the standard operating procedure" when code is either being updated or created from scratch (and I'll use "code" broadly - most PDF forms and Microsoft forms could be made completely accessible if the people creating them knew how [and since a lot of them don't, since they're just random folks putting something together based on their immediate needs, the picture is all that much more complicated).
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


Re: creating a shortcut in windows 10

Bill White <billwhite92701@...>
 

Open the Run dialog (Windows+R=run), type in:
shell:AppsFolder

and then press enter to view this folder.

Find an app you wish to create a shortcut for, right-click (applications key, or, shift+f10 and choose Create shortcut from the pop-up menu that appears.

You’ll be prompted that the shortcut cannot be placed here, and Windows will recommend placing it on the desktop instead. Press enter on Yes. A shortcut with the name App-Name Shortcut (Mail Shortcut) will appear on the desktop. You can leave this as-is, or rename it (I usually remove the word, Shortcut). And you can of course move the shortcut to any folder as needed.

Now, just repeat for all the app shortcuts you need.

Bill White
billwhite92701@dslextreme.com

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jed Barton
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 9:29 AM
To: main
Subject: creating a shortcut in windows 10

Hey guys,

OK i have a program installed over here, and wanna create a shortcut.
I haven't done it in so long, i forgot how to. Any ideas? I can find
the app in programs but there doesn't appear to be a way to create a
shortcut.


Re: Should there be an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared?

Randy Barnett <randy@...>
 

You could write the rules so that they say: "All buttons and grapics have lables that can be read by screen readers such as Narrotor, Jaws or NVDA."
This language would not be tied to any technology and allow for change.
On 8/4/2018 9:47 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
The problem being that any mandated standards become obsolete far too quickly.

Getting software makers, web coders, etc., simply to follow existing accessibility conventions/standards would make things a lot better than they are were this done consistently.

Too much changes too fast for hard and fast standards to have any real utility in the realm of accessibility.  That doesn't mean that taking accessibility seriously, and getting to the point where it is "baked in" from the start of an undertaking, cannot be achieved though it is a long way off.

A change in attitudes toward what good programming and development practice is for commercial software would go a lot further than any government standard would simply because it's not possible for any standard to keep up with the pace of change.   I have nothing against laws and regulations in general and, with regard to issues surrounding disability they've been a boon in many ways, but this is not a context where they could work as intended and, in fact, could very quickly result in hands being tied in ways that are damaging rather than beneficial.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


-- 
Sincerely: Randy Barnett
Owner of Soundtique.
Grants Pass, Or. 


Re: Should there be an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared?

Dan Longmore
 

I agree, and also more competitions between  companies that provide AT products would help.  Right now, the field is so narrow that VFO and others have no incentive to remain on the cutting edge. 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 12:47 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Should there be an accessibility standard for programs that are used by the visually impared?

 

The problem being that any mandated standards become obsolete far too quickly.

Getting software makers, web coders, etc., simply to follow existing accessibility conventions/standards would make things a lot better than they are were this done consistently.

Too much changes too fast for hard and fast standards to have any real utility in the realm of accessibility.  That doesn't mean that taking accessibility seriously, and getting to the point where it is "baked in" from the start of an undertaking, cannot be achieved though it is a long way off.

A change in attitudes toward what good programming and development practice is for commercial software would go a lot further than any government standard would simply because it's not possible for any standard to keep up with the pace of change.   I have nothing against laws and regulations in general and, with regard to issues surrounding disability they've been a boon in many ways, but this is not a context where they could work as intended and, in fact, could very quickly result in hands being tied in ways that are damaging rather than beneficial.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


Re: Test

 

It arrived, and in a font that I could read from across a room.  It's HUGE!
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


Re: Test

Rick Mladek
 

Your test was successful, thank you.

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pastor Gil Pries
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 12:53 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Test

 

This is a test message.

 

Pastor Gil Pries

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Test

Richard Turner
 

Pastor Gil Pries you passed the test.

 

 

 

 

 

“The secret is not to make your music louder, but to make the world quieter.” 

- Mitch Albom from The Magic Strings of Frankie Presto, page 1

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Pastor Gil Pries
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 9:53 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Test

 

This is a test message.

 

Pastor Gil Pries

 


Test

Pastor Gil Pries <revgil@...>
 

This is a test message.

 

Pastor Gil Pries