Date   

moderated Re: Accessible EPUB reader for Windows 10

Milton Ota
 

Hi,

 

If you have the most current version of Microsoft Edge browser it will open an epub file as well as pdf.

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joe
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 2:42 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Accessible EPUB reader for Windows 10

 

Does any one know of an accessible Windows 10 EPUB reader? I have some types of these files I would like to access on my PC.

Joe

Picture of Owl with Mortar Board and Computer

Dr. Joe L. Todd CVRT

                Phone: 616.951.2142

 

 


moderated Accessible EPUB reader for Windows 10

Joe
 

Does any one know of an accessible Windows 10 EPUB reader? I have some types of these files I would like to access on my PC.

Joe

Picture of Owl with Mortar Board and Computer

Dr. Joe L. Todd CVRT

                Phone: 616.951.2142

 

 


moderated Re: Possible bug w/J2020 and Edge

David Kingsbury
 

Hi,

Not sure why fixing this should even matter to you. Once a download is confirmed, all I care about is going to my Downloads folder on my PC to find it.

 

David


moderated Re: android vs ios.

Nermin
 

Hi, Glen,


no, people who purchased it can still install it, but it's not available on The Play Store anymore.

Codefactory pulled the plug cause they thought that it was difficult to port to the 64

bit architecture that Google is demanding for newer phones, at least that's what I've read through various sources.

Regards,
Nermin


moderated Re: Sharing a printer

Glenn / Lenny
 


In fact, I have an old d-Link router that has a 9-pin serial port in it for devices like printers.
But the old printer I had on my router five to ten years back was a USB printer, and just a basic printer not designed for anything but being plugged into a computer.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: Sharing a printer

I don't think it needs to even know that it is on a network, most printers are just a one-way device, and they only need to be available to receive information.
I think the tricky part is the cable, a straight through cable with no chip inside would be best, because a printer wouldn't know how to manage a chip that are in many cables.
But once it is in the network and available, the computer finding it in the network will send its print instructions to it.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: Sharing a printer

I don't think that will work unless you find some kind of USB to ethernet adapter that handles all the networking and translation to because your printer won't have any way of dealing with the network itself.

Randy Barnett

On Jun 27, 2020, at 4:46 PM, Loy <loyrg2845@...> wrote:


Can I get a USB to a Ethernet  connector and connect to the router?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: Sharing a printer

It helps to install the printer software on the other computers.
Then after the software is installed, you will look for a network printer, either in the printer software, or in control panel under printers.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: Loy
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 11:54 AM
Subject: Sharing a printer

We have three computers our home,  all connected by WiFi,  I have a printer connected to one by USB, I would like to be able to print from the other computers. I find conflicting instructions by searching Google. Can someone give me simple instructions on how to do this?


moderated Re: Sharing a printer

Glenn / Lenny
 


I don't think it needs to even know that it is on a network, most printers are just a one-way device, and they only need to be available to receive information.
I think the tricky part is the cable, a straight through cable with no chip inside would be best, because a printer wouldn't know how to manage a chip that are in many cables.
But once it is in the network and available, the computer finding it in the network will send its print instructions to it.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: Sharing a printer

I don't think that will work unless you find some kind of USB to ethernet adapter that handles all the networking and translation to because your printer won't have any way of dealing with the network itself.

Randy Barnett

On Jun 27, 2020, at 4:46 PM, Loy <loyrg2845@...> wrote:


Can I get a USB to a Ethernet  connector and connect to the router?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: Sharing a printer

It helps to install the printer software on the other computers.
Then after the software is installed, you will look for a network printer, either in the printer software, or in control panel under printers.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: Loy
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 11:54 AM
Subject: Sharing a printer

We have three computers our home,  all connected by WiFi,  I have a printer connected to one by USB, I would like to be able to print from the other computers. I find conflicting instructions by searching Google. Can someone give me simple instructions on how to do this?


moderated Re: Sharing a printer

Randy Barnett
 

I don't think that will work unless you find some kind of USB to ethernet adapter that handles all the networking and translation to because your printer won't have any way of dealing with the network itself.

Randy Barnett

On Jun 27, 2020, at 4:46 PM, Loy <loyrg2845@...> wrote:


Can I get a USB to a Ethernet  connector and connect to the router?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: Sharing a printer

It helps to install the printer software on the other computers.
Then after the software is installed, you will look for a network printer, either in the printer software, or in control panel under printers.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: Loy
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 11:54 AM
Subject: Sharing a printer

We have three computers our home,  all connected by WiFi,  I have a printer connected to one by USB, I would like to be able to print from the other computers. I find conflicting instructions by searching Google. Can someone give me simple instructions on how to do this?


moderated Re: android vs ios.

Glenn / Lenny
 


I haven't fired up my android for a while, are you saying that I won't have Eloquence, or is it just not available to purchase any more?
Thanks

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 6:41 AM
Subject: Re: android vs ios.

For clarification purposes, Eloquence is no longer available for Android use. Whenit was, it cost an additional $20, which was well worth the price.

Also there are several types of USB drives that allow for easy storage and transfer of information between iPhones and other devices, including PCs. They do self-load their own apps, and are not as straightforward to use as a Android transfer of information, but, very doable.



 Diane Bomar

On Jun 27, 2020, at 00:36, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote:


I have both, and in terms of ease of use with regard to the gestures, it is my opinion that the iPhone is much easier to operate.
On the other hand, with Android, I can have Eloquence for the voice, and I can simply copy and paste to and from my computer to the Android phone.
With Android, you can get a USB adapter and plug in a desktop keyboard or anything USB, you can't do that with IOS.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 1:23 AM
Subject: Re: android vs ios.

hi folks,

i know that this is not the forum for this question, but maybe one of you good people might have some ideas as to where i should go.

currently, i have an old nokia phone about 300 years of age.

i have decided to take the great leap into the unknown and start using a modern tap screen phone.

i have a samsung android phone with talkback on it, but it is proving to be somewhat of a trouble.

i would say, that it is just because i am new to it, but web sites offering training tips seem to be non existent.

also, the braille keyboard seems to be a bit of a pain. i also dont want to have to attach a keyboard to it, as this defeats the purpose of having a phone you can carry around with you.

on the other hand, i have heard, that apple's voice over is much better.

again, training seems to be the problem. i should be able to get my hands on an ifone.

any thoughts?

anyone prefer one over the other?

cheers,

pat


moderated Re: android vs ios.

Nermin
 

Hi, David,


if you're frustrated with Brailleback, I suggest you try https://brltty.app/

BRLTTY can be installed on any Android device. A friend of mine had bought an Actilino for its portability as a Braille display and keyboard, but constantly exchanging messages with Helptech and Google, testing versions of Brailleback and trying to stay current did not yield anything in the end.

I convinced her to try out BRLTTY, and now she's loving it and discovering things she was never able to do with Brailleback and other Braille displays.

For the latest Android version, just go to https://brltty.app/archive/Android/brltty-latest.apk

For documentation on how to use BRLTTY on Android go to https://brltty.app/archive/Android/brltty-on-android.html

The author is very helpful in figuring out key bindings and such. A list of Braille manufacturers and models can be found on their website.


Hope this helps,

Nermin


moderated Re: android vs ios.

 

On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 11:29 AM, Tyler Wood wrote:
And, for the end user, responsiveness of the screen reader is not effected, especially in 2020, from a $150 device to a $1000 one.
A point on which I absolutely agree.  It's not much unlike PCs in that regard.  For what most users do, and I do mean most, hardware performance has outstripped the demands most end users even can put on it by a long shot.  There are the odd niche power users who can and do tax hardware to its limits.  Those are probably less than 5 percent of all users.

As to 5G, based on what I've been hearing as someone who lives "in the hinterlands," it will be years, possible more than a decade, before 5G makes it to where I live.  This is no huge issue for me, as 4G LTE is way more than fast enough for anything I do routinely.   It will also make 5G technology on the phone side "old had" by the time it can even be used here.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: android vs ios.

Tyler Wood
 

Simbion was similar. Those phones were incredible workhorses – dare I say nicer than anything we have today. When a Nokia e71 could get days of battery while actually using it, combined with a really nice QWERTY keyboard built in. It unfortunately had an amazingly overpriced screen reader – but for its time, it was amazing, and still remains, along with flip phones, the batterylife king. It however was able to have things installed, like twitter, skype, along with a few other services. I never did get to look at Windows Mobile or PalmOS, which is unfortunate.

I’m also of the opinion that, for most intents and purposes, Apple is very overpriced for what you actually get. They seem to do the exact opposite to their computers as they do with phones – a 6 year old potentially 10s of thousands of dollars Mac pro can be discontinued from receiving updates, despite its powerful processor, at the drop of a hat, simply because apple wants you to buy a new one. With Android, there is so much more of a variety in regards to price. And, for the end user, responsiveness of the screen reader is not effected, especially in 2020, from a $150 device to a $1000 one.

 

I’m waiting for 5g to really take off here to make any sort of judgement on that. It needs to become more widespread and the modems need to become less power hungry for me to care much about it, at this point. The cost isn’t worth it to me personally right now.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 10:18 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: android vs ios.

 

On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 07:27 AM, Leedy Diane Bomar wrote:

If you are a geekly kind of person, enjoying knowing where your files are stored, playing with questionable apps, and a techie that enjoys spending more time learning the various ways to manipulate the phone, vs. a person who wants to actually use the phone as a means to an end, Android would be the choice for you.

If ever there were an example of a false dichotomy, this is it.  And that's not a criticism of iPhone, either.

There are myriad examples of where "actually using the phone as a means to an end" is greatly enhanced by having the capability to manipulate and customize the device itself.

I don't think that anyone who's used both Apple products, whether phones or computers, and PC and Android products, could credibly make the claim that Apple allows the end user to make their own choices to nearly the extent that the other platforms do.  No other company keeps a death grip on their ecosystems like Apple does.

That, along with what I feel is gross overpricing for what you get, is why I do not favor Apple, and never have.  I only wish the folks at Palm had been more prescient as smartphones appeared, as what had been PalmOS would have made an incredible operating system for smartphones.  They recognized what was happening way too late, and all attempts to "get on the smartphone bandwagon" with PalmOS failed over time.  (And the same thing played itself out in reverse with Windows Mobile. Microsoft was insane to even try to enter a market as entrenched as it already was when they decided to do so.)
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: android vs ios.

 

On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 07:27 AM, Leedy Diane Bomar wrote:
If you are a geekly kind of person, enjoying knowing where your files are stored, playing with questionable apps, and a techie that enjoys spending more time learning the various ways to manipulate the phone, vs. a person who wants to actually use the phone as a means to an end, Android would be the choice for you.
If ever there were an example of a false dichotomy, this is it.  And that's not a criticism of iPhone, either.

There are myriad examples of where "actually using the phone as a means to an end" is greatly enhanced by having the capability to manipulate and customize the device itself.

I don't think that anyone who's used both Apple products, whether phones or computers, and PC and Android products, could credibly make the claim that Apple allows the end user to make their own choices to nearly the extent that the other platforms do.  No other company keeps a death grip on their ecosystems like Apple does.

That, along with what I feel is gross overpricing for what you get, is why I do not favor Apple, and never have.  I only wish the folks at Palm had been more prescient as smartphones appeared, as what had been PalmOS would have made an incredible operating system for smartphones.  They recognized what was happening way too late, and all attempts to "get on the smartphone bandwagon" with PalmOS failed over time.  (And the same thing played itself out in reverse with Windows Mobile. Microsoft was insane to even try to enter a market as entrenched as it already was when they decided to do so.)
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: android vs ios.

Leedy Diane Bomar
 

For clarification purposes, Eloquence is no longer available for Android use. Whenit was, it cost an additional $20, which was well worth the price.

Also there are several types of USB drives that allow for easy storage and transfer of information between iPhones and other devices, including PCs. They do self-load their own apps, and are not as straightforward to use as a Android transfer of information, but, very doable.



 Diane Bomar

On Jun 27, 2020, at 00:36, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote:


I have both, and in terms of ease of use with regard to the gestures, it is my opinion that the iPhone is much easier to operate.
On the other hand, with Android, I can have Eloquence for the voice, and I can simply copy and paste to and from my computer to the Android phone.
With Android, you can get a USB adapter and plug in a desktop keyboard or anything USB, you can't do that with IOS.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 1:23 AM
Subject: Re: android vs ios.

hi folks,

 

i know that this is not the forum for this question, but maybe one of you good people might have some ideas as to where i should go.

currently, i have an old nokia phone about 300 years of age.

i have decided to take the great leap into the unknown and start using a modern tap screen phone.

i have a samsung android phone with talkback on it, but it is proving to be somewhat of a trouble.

i would say, that it is just because i am new to it, but web sites offering training tips seem to be non existent.

also, the braille keyboard seems to be a bit of a pain. i also dont want to have to attach a keyboard to it, as this defeats the purpose of having a phone you can carry around with you.

on the other hand, i have heard, that apple's voice over is much better.

again, training seems to be the problem. i should be able to get my hands on an ifone.

any thoughts?

anyone prefer one over the other?

cheers,

pat

 


moderated Re: android vs ios.

Leedy Diane Bomar
 

I have used an Apple phone since 2010, and started out with an iPhone 4. Last summer I purchased a Samsung 10E in order to develop a working knowledge of Android use and test apps for accessibility on that platform.

I have a strong preference for apple phones for the following reasons:

The Apple Accessibility team is available 24/7 via a toll-free number, and can screen share with your phone, and help with access issues primarily with their apps, but, general use, also.

Apple develops the hardware and software, and, therefore, has consistency not available with Android.

Apple stores provide one-on-one classes, group classes, and help from their "genius bar" at all Apple stores. 

The fact that the many acccessibility features are part of the operating system, and are available on all Apple products.

One can customize the accessibility of an iPhone, including navigation and voice options easily from within iOS. 

The rotor on the iPhone allows for inclusion of various customizable controls.

Apple vets the apps for inclusion in their app store. This makes the apps more secure, preventing embedded hackware and viruses that often are embedded in the Google play store.

I personally like the goals of Apple, and their inclusive development philosophy. As Tim Cook says: "With Google, you are the product" meaning that Google values selling your information.

I do everything with my iPhone, mail, podcasts, playing games, texting, facebook, etc.

If you are a geekly kind of person, enjoying knowing where your files are stored, playing with questionable apps, and a techie that enjoys spending more time learning the various ways to manipulate the phone, vs. a person who wants to actually use the phone as a means to an end, Android would be the choice for you. My background is in software development and engineering, but, I use my phone for the benefits of accessing the world outside the phone, not just to play with the various configurations. I don't care where the files are stored.

Both platforms offer the ability to transfer files from one device to another, (phone to phone, phone to/from PC or MAC)

ICloud offers the ability to use the phone and other Apple devices, seamlessly.

IOS has a great choice of voices to be used with Voiceover and it is easy to change them on the fly, through the rotor.

I can pick up any Apple phone and use it without needing sighted assistance. Texting other Apple users offer benefits not available with SMS.

My Android experience has been frustrating, at best. The virtual keyboard experience has been inconsistent and frustrating. Figuring out which TTS to use, downloading it, installing it, and learning its various quirks and features has been difficult. I admit to being biased because I want to use Android in ways I have learned to use iOS. Use and availability of the various phones, and their versions of the Android operating system vary greatly, and obtaining support or having a quick answer to an accessibility question is more time-consuming and stressful.

Ultimately, I would like to learn how to write code to enhance the accessibility of 3rd party apps. Apple has good and substantial information for devs to include accessibility features in the apps they are developing.

Please feel free to contact me privately if you would like to discuss your questions.
Diane.bomar@...
Or text
512-484-5485.

Of late, I have not been checking my email as often, as I used to, as other priorities have developed, and I am on too many lists, which take a considerable amount of time to read.
HTH, and good luck,

 Diane Bomar

On Jun 27, 2020, at 01:33, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...> wrote:



I use both an Android phone with Talkback and an iPhone with voice over! It was just as hard to learn Voiceover as it was to learn Talkback. Also Android 11, which will come out in the fall, will have a lot of the same multi-finger gestures as Voiceover. Android is better because you can use third party apps instead of using just what Apple will let you use. You can customize your Android phone much more, and what do you know, Ios 14 is adding the app drawer just like android. IOS 14 is taking from Android and Google. What range of phone are you using? please join the ANATAD list. It standds for Android apps news talk and deals.
anatad+subscribe@...
it is a very helpful list with a weekly podcast called the anatad podcast that you can find with any podcast service. You need a good phone, even with Android. Please email me off list. I will give you plenty of tutorials and the truth about both the iPhone and Android.
David Moore


On Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 2:23 AM Patrick Murphy <murphy.patrick42@...> wrote:

hi folks,

 

i know that this is not the forum for this question, but maybe one of you good people might have some ideas as to where i should go.

currently, i have an old nokia phone about 300 years of age.

i have decided to take the great leap into the unknown and start using a modern tap screen phone.

i have a samsung android phone with talkback on it, but it is proving to be somewhat of a trouble.

i would say, that it is just because i am new to it, but web sites offering training tips seem to be non existent.

also, the braille keyboard seems to be a bit of a pain. i also dont want to have to attach a keyboard to it, as this defeats the purpose of having a phone you can carry around with you.

on the other hand, i have heard, that apple's voice over is much better.

again, training seems to be the problem. i should be able to get my hands on an ifone.

any thoughts?

anyone prefer one over the other?

cheers,

pat

 


moderated Re: android vs. ios.

Rod
 

This has been an excellent discussion, though I believe the fallacy here is in comparing Android to Apple, which is simply not a fair comparison given the diversity of phones on the Android platform.
 
In my view, Apple vs. Samsung Galaxy S5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and above provide an equal accessible experience. I would venture to say the same for using Android with Google phones. They each have their pros and cons. However, beyond that, when you start to consider other manufactures, then the comparison falls on its face.
 
I use a Galaxy S9 with Samsung’s Voice Assistant, and I frankly have not noticed any issues with this setup. In fact- I use Voice Assistant because of the simplicity of the gestures. The premium TTS provided by Samsung are second to none, in my view. There isn’t anything I have wanted to do with my phone that I have not been able to do, including entering text using my fingers.
 
Some manufactures do not implement much accessibility on their Android phones. So, if you compare those phones with an Apple phone, then of course, the experience will obviously not be the same. It would be a more helpful discussion to allow users to know which one of those manufactures to avoid when considering an Android phone as oppose to the platform itself.
 
At the end of the day, you should choose the phone that makes you happy and productive. But do not simply avoid Samsung and Google phones based on inaccurate information.
 

Rod Alcidonis, Esq.
 

From: Sean Murphy
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 5:55 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: android vs ios.
 

There is many levels you can look at the differences of Android VS Apple. The underlying Accessibility model, the SDK model, the user interface, the fragmentation of the market of versions, how different models work. As I use both for testing and as an user. Let me touch upon both. I am not going to say which one is better. As this comes down to your own personal usage and needs. Some users find Android or Apple is better for their needs.

 

 

  • Android TalkBack is a separate program. If you use Samsung, then you have to install Talkback. As Voice Assist is the default screen reader and as far as I am concern. Has not kept up to the changes made to the underlying accessibility framework. Talkback is better then Voice Assist.
  • Software version control in my opinion is not as fragmented as the Android market. Any statistics out there will demonstrate that majority of Apple phones are using the latest OS which is supported for their device. Apple does force the upgrade. But users can opt out of this. Android also does force upgrade. Due to the larger number of models of phone. There is far more variation of OS versions out there.
  • All iPhones work with your finger. Android devices cannot claim this at all. In fact, one of the Android devices I am using, you cannot use your finger correctly with the keyboard. You might be wanting to enter in a letter ‘I”. But a different letter is enter. If you use the stylist which comes with the phone. Then you don’t have the issue. This is all related to the touch size area. Not all Android phones have this issue.
  • You have far more flexibility with Android than you do with Apple. Android has launch pads which you can change. I had to do this with one of my Android models to make TalkBack work correctly when using the angle gestures.
  • Android permits you to navigate by control, header, link, paragraph, line, word and char plus the default. Apple does not. Apple only provides char, word, line, header. I am referring here to native apps which are not web based.
  • All the Apple phones I have used, the gestures work  without any issues. I started with the iPhone 4 and now I have an iPhone 11. I cannot say I have had the same experience on the Android. I have used the Google Pixcel II and Samsung Note 10 with the same problem where the phone does not automatically detect my finger. I have to muck around for a while before it occurs.
  • Android has better keyboard support. Apples isn’t bad, but not quite there. Android you can use the tab key to navigate any app. Apple this does not always occur.
  • I find the apple apps as a whole are far better to use with VoiceOver than Talkback. I used Audible on both platforms. I found a lot of issues with the Android app compared to the Apple version. This also applies to other apps.
  • Someone mention having TalkBack as a separate app is a good thing. I don’t think this is the case. A lot of the things I don’t like about TalkBack and Android is due to this fact. VoiceOver is at the OS layer. Hence the interaction is far better. An example is on the Pixcel II using Android 8.1 and still exist in Android 10. Navigating using the left and right swipe. The focus to the next item can jump to a unexpected location. This does occur if you are scolling. I have never seen this in Apple using the same gesture in their settings app to scroll through the items. Apples good interaction is all due to the screen reader being a part of the OS.
  • Drag and drop on the Apple is far nicer than Android. Apple you get an action option. This allows you to select an item to drag, then append another item to the drag and finally choose if you want to placed the dragged items before or after where you want to drop it. You are guided at each point of the interaction. Android you have to perform a double tap and hold. Then drag your finger to the location. I find this method harder.
  • Apple gesture are easier to remember. This is because I learnt the apple first. I don’t like the angle methodology at all by the way. I have got to used to it. But it is very hard to remember. I have been using it over 6 months now regularly. If you struggle in memory which angle gesture does what, then it is a poor user experience. This is because you should not have to think to use it. This is where in my mind apple for the basic gesture you use everyday is easier. Left, right, up and down swipe, double tap and the router. You can do everything just about on the phone.
  • The default TTS on apple is better than Android. Android you can use different TTS. Apple you cannot.

 

 

The biggest issue all both mobile platforms have is the range of object (controls) available in the SDK. A control/object is an edit, button, link, ETC. In the accessibility  world they call them roles. Android calls them types. Apple call them trades. An example where a role is  missing is lists box or list views. In an email program, you never know if you are on message 25 of 100. Windows and Mac you get this information. Another example is radio buttons. Doesn’t exist on mobile. These are just two examples.

 

End of the day, you need to really spend some time with both devices to see which one works for you. This is the hardest bit to do. Statistically in Australia majority of Low vision and Blind users use Apple. It is over 60%. I think Android has about 17%. That is the other consideration. I don’t know if this is the same case in other countries.

 

Sean

  • From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
    Sent: Sunday, 28 June 2020 7:34 AM
    To: main@jfw.groups.io
    Subject: Re: android vs ios.

 

I am pretty happy with Android but I don’t honestly use my phone all that much. I’ve thought of trying to connect my braille display but haven’t bothered, especially now that I have a laptop…everything I’ve heard so far suggests that it can be done but that it’s quite a painful process, and I’m not that patient. I’m not a fan of Apple as a company so I will probably never acquire one of their products (though they made my first computer in the 80s, an Apple Ii E, they were a different company then…)

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
Sent: June 27, 2020 1:58 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: android vs ios.

 

No one has mentioned the breill support on the android is no where as good as the I Phone. Jonathon Moson still thinks the Android phones are behind in both the screen reader and the breill support.

On 6/26/2020 11:23 PM, Patrick Murphy wrote:

hi folks,

 

i know that this is not the forum for this question, but maybe one of you good people might have some ideas as to where i should go.

currently, i have an old nokia phone about 300 years of age.

i have decided to take the great leap into the unknown and start using a modern tap screen phone.

i have a samsung android phone with talkback on it, but it is proving to be somewhat of a trouble.

i would say, that it is just because i am new to it, but web sites offering training tips seem to be non existent.

also, the braille keyboard seems to be a bit of a pain. i also dont want to have to attach a keyboard to it, as this defeats the purpose of having a phone you can carry around with you.

on the other hand, i have heard, that apple's voice over is much better.

again, training seems to be the problem. i should be able to get my hands on an ifone.

any thoughts?

anyone prefer one over the other?

cheers,

pat

 


moderated Re: android vs ios.

Sean Murphy
 

There is many levels you can look at the differences of Android VS Apple. The underlying Accessibility model, the SDK model, the user interface, the fragmentation of the market of versions, how different models work. As I use both for testing and as an user. Let me touch upon both. I am not going to say which one is better. As this comes down to your own personal usage and needs. Some users find Android or Apple is better for their needs.

 

 

  • Android TalkBack is a separate program. If you use Samsung, then you have to install Talkback. As Voice Assist is the default screen reader and as far as I am concern. Has not kept up to the changes made to the underlying accessibility framework. Talkback is better then Voice Assist.
  • Software version control in my opinion is not as fragmented as the Android market. Any statistics out there will demonstrate that majority of Apple phones are using the latest OS which is supported for their device. Apple does force the upgrade. But users can opt out of this. Android also does force upgrade. Due to the larger number of models of phone. There is far more variation of OS versions out there.
  • All iPhones work with your finger. Android devices cannot claim this at all. In fact, one of the Android devices I am using, you cannot use your finger correctly with the keyboard. You might be wanting to enter in a letter ‘I”. But a different letter is enter. If you use the stylist which comes with the phone. Then you don’t have the issue. This is all related to the touch size area. Not all Android phones have this issue.
  • You have far more flexibility with Android than you do with Apple. Android has launch pads which you can change. I had to do this with one of my Android models to make TalkBack work correctly when using the angle gestures.
  • Android permits you to navigate by control, header, link, paragraph, line, word and char plus the default. Apple does not. Apple only provides char, word, line, header. I am referring here to native apps which are not web based.
  • All the Apple phones I have used, the gestures work  without any issues. I started with the iPhone 4 and now I have an iPhone 11. I cannot say I have had the same experience on the Android. I have used the Google Pixcel II and Samsung Note 10 with the same problem where the phone does not automatically detect my finger. I have to muck around for a while before it occurs.
  • Android has better keyboard support. Apples isn’t bad, but not quite there. Android you can use the tab key to navigate any app. Apple this does not always occur.
  • I find the apple apps as a whole are far better to use with VoiceOver than Talkback. I used Audible on both platforms. I found a lot of issues with the Android app compared to the Apple version. This also applies to other apps.
  • Someone mention having TalkBack as a separate app is a good thing. I don’t think this is the case. A lot of the things I don’t like about TalkBack and Android is due to this fact. VoiceOver is at the OS layer. Hence the interaction is far better. An example is on the Pixcel II using Android 8.1 and still exist in Android 10. Navigating using the left and right swipe. The focus to the next item can jump to a unexpected location. This does occur if you are scolling. I have never seen this in Apple using the same gesture in their settings app to scroll through the items. Apples good interaction is all due to the screen reader being a part of the OS.
  • Drag and drop on the Apple is far nicer than Android. Apple you get an action option. This allows you to select an item to drag, then append another item to the drag and finally choose if you want to placed the dragged items before or after where you want to drop it. You are guided at each point of the interaction. Android you have to perform a double tap and hold. Then drag your finger to the location. I find this method harder.
  • Apple gesture are easier to remember. This is because I learnt the apple first. I don’t like the angle methodology at all by the way. I have got to used to it. But it is very hard to remember. I have been using it over 6 months now regularly. If you struggle in memory which angle gesture does what, then it is a poor user experience. This is because you should not have to think to use it. This is where in my mind apple for the basic gesture you use everyday is easier. Left, right, up and down swipe, double tap and the router. You can do everything just about on the phone.
  • The default TTS on apple is better than Android. Android you can use different TTS. Apple you cannot.

 

 

The biggest issue all both mobile platforms have is the range of object (controls) available in the SDK. A control/object is an edit, button, link, ETC. In the accessibility  world they call them roles. Android calls them types. Apple call them trades. An example where a role is  missing is lists box or list views. In an email program, you never know if you are on message 25 of 100. Windows and Mac you get this information. Another example is radio buttons. Doesn’t exist on mobile. These are just two examples.

 

End of the day, you need to really spend some time with both devices to see which one works for you. This is the hardest bit to do. Statistically in Australia majority of Low vision and Blind users use Apple. It is over 60%. I think Android has about 17%. That is the other consideration. I don’t know if this is the same case in other countries.

 

Sean

  • From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
    Sent: Sunday, 28 June 2020 7:34 AM
    To: main@jfw.groups.io
    Subject: Re: android vs ios.

 

I am pretty happy with Android but I don’t honestly use my phone all that much. I’ve thought of trying to connect my braille display but haven’t bothered, especially now that I have a laptop…everything I’ve heard so far suggests that it can be done but that it’s quite a painful process, and I’m not that patient. I’m not a fan of Apple as a company so I will probably never acquire one of their products (though they made my first computer in the 80s, an Apple Ii E, they were a different company then…)

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
Sent: June 27, 2020 1:58 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: android vs ios.

 

No one has mentioned the breill support on the android is no where as good as the I Phone. Jonathon Moson still thinks the Android phones are behind in both the screen reader and the breill support.

On 6/26/2020 11:23 PM, Patrick Murphy wrote:

hi folks,

 

i know that this is not the forum for this question, but maybe one of you good people might have some ideas as to where i should go.

currently, i have an old nokia phone about 300 years of age.

i have decided to take the great leap into the unknown and start using a modern tap screen phone.

i have a samsung android phone with talkback on it, but it is proving to be somewhat of a trouble.

i would say, that it is just because i am new to it, but web sites offering training tips seem to be non existent.

also, the braille keyboard seems to be a bit of a pain. i also dont want to have to attach a keyboard to it, as this defeats the purpose of having a phone you can carry around with you.

on the other hand, i have heard, that apple's voice over is much better.

again, training seems to be the problem. i should be able to get my hands on an ifone.

any thoughts?

anyone prefer one over the other?

cheers,

pat

 


moderated Re: Scripts for JFW and Dragon?

Dean Martineau <topdot@...>
 

JawBone is long dead, replaced by J-Say.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marty Hutchings
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:11 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Scripts for JFW and Dragon?

 

Hay,  Didn’t there use to be a program called JAWBONES that was supposed to work between JAWS and Dragon?

 

Love in Christ
Marty
If we view this present life as our primary goal, we will agree with William Shakespeare who said: “Life is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.” From TODAY IN THE WORD June 1, 2020

 

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 9:15 PM

Subject: Re: Scripts for JFW and Dragon?

 

Dean,

Thanks for making me aware of this as I did not realize that the Dictationbridge scripts for JAWS were in such an unfinished state. I hope that the project team makes this clear on their Web site.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019
 
WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 6/24/2020 7:25 AM, Dean Martineau wrote:

I understand that it appears that Dictation Bridge for JAWS is a product, but it does not in fact work. Lucy Greko, one of those who spearheaded the project, confirmed this when I met year last year. The project ran out of funding, and development was still necessary for the JAWS version.  I think some people can use it, experienced users, but it is not for everybody as the project intended.

 

Dean

 

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io mailto:main@jfw.groups.io On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 6:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Scripts for JFW and Dragon?

 

Hi. A free version of Dictation Bridge is also available for JAWS.

Hartgen Consultancy has two solutions for using JAWS with Dragon. J-Dictate is for people who want to use Dragon for dictation into programs such as Word, Outlook, etc., who are comfortable or able to use their computer keyboard.

J-Say not only allows for voice dictation but it allows a user to completely control their computer with all commands, both for Windows as well as for JAWS. The programs from Hartgen Consultancy are specific to JAWS whereas Dictation Bridge has a separate addon for NVDA.

 


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 6/23/2020 2:29 PM, Dean Martineau wrote:
> Your best bet is to buy Jay dictate to work with dragon and jaws. > With NVDA, you would be able to use dictation bridge, which is free. > > On Jun 23, 2020, at 1:09 PM, Dani Pagador mailto:pocketfulofspry@... > wrote: > > Hi, Everyone. I need to archive a book and want to use Dragon > Naturally Speaking to do it. I'm running JFW18 and Win10. Are there > scripts that work with JFW and Dragon? Or resources I can access to > learn to use the dictation feature of the program? > > Thanks, Dani > > > > > >


moderated Re: Spell Check Sluggish in Office 2016 and 2013

kevin meyers
 

This occurs to me on a ramdom basis and only in Outlook.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Turner
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 1:18 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Spell Check Sluggish in Office 2016 and 2013

 

I’ve not experienced this.

Have you closed everything and rebooted?

 

 

 

 

Richard

"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must pass himself,” and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have regretted not granting grace to others, I’ve never once regretted extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Barbara Sheinbein
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 11:15 AM
To: JFW List <jfw@groups.io>
Subject: Spell Check Sluggish in Office 2016 and 2013

 

Hi Everyone,

 

I have 2 computers one has Office 2016 and the second has Office 2013.  I mostly use Word and outlook.  When I use the spell check , most, but not all the time the spell check dialogue is sluggish. 

 

I have the latest version of JAWS 2020 installed.  I have windows 10 on both computers.

 

This occurs in both Office programs I mentioned earlier.  Alt-tab away from the window and returning back does not solve anything.  Sometimes if I close JAWS and launch it again, it does help.  It does not seem to matter if I have other programs open as well or not.  Any ideas on how to resolve this?

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

Barbara


moderated Re: Sharing a printer

Glenn / Lenny
 

I have considered that, I think it is likely, but I haven't tested that.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
From: Loy
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: Sharing a printer

Can I get a USB to a Ethernet  connector and connect to the router?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: Sharing a printer

It helps to install the printer software on the other computers.
Then after the software is installed, you will look for a network printer, either in the printer software, or in control panel under printers.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: Loy
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 11:54 AM
Subject: Sharing a printer

We have three computers our home,  all connected by WiFi,  I have a printer connected to one by USB, I would like to be able to print from the other computers. I find conflicting instructions by searching Google. Can someone give me simple instructions on how to do this?


moderated Re: Sharing a printer

Loy
 

Can I get a USB to a Ethernet  connector and connect to the router?

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: Sharing a printer

It helps to install the printer software on the other computers.
Then after the software is installed, you will look for a network printer, either in the printer software, or in control panel under printers.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: Loy
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 11:54 AM
Subject: Sharing a printer

We have three computers our home,  all connected by WiFi,  I have a printer connected to one by USB, I would like to be able to print from the other computers. I find conflicting instructions by searching Google. Can someone give me simple instructions on how to do this?