1. main@jfw.groups.io
   Date   
moving Outlook folders

Kevin Meyers <kevinmeyers@...>
 

Hello, I’m using windows10 and Office 2016. I created a new email address and would like to move the folders under the old email address to the new one. Is there a way to do the move?
Seeking phone editor that works well with JAWS

Craig Cooper
 

Greetings,
I am trying to find the most efficient phone editing program to work
with JAWS. As part of my job at a radio station, I record calls that
come in, edit them for playback, and play back the call on air. I
have been working with Audacity for a week or so. It is free and
works fairly well with JAWS, but it also tends to crash frequently.
It is not hard to re-launch it, but it does take precious time, as I
frequently have to quickly edit a call for play back.
Your suggestions/recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you very much.
Craig
Re: Backup Software - Semi-Accessible

Nino Dagostino
 

Hi:

I use file history, I also have image for windows.

I have so much data to do a file backup with image for windows takes a long time.

I tried to do a backup where only the files that have changed get backuped by image for windows.

I like file history.

Thanks for all your help on the list.

Have a good day.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Matzura
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 6:25 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Backup Software - Semi-Accessible

IFW can do all three kinds of backups--image, differential, and incremental. it does *not* do file or directory backups. Your File History program sounds like a must-have, too.


On 8/16/2018 8:30 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
I'm starting this thread in it hopes that it might address an issue
brought up on another thread, that of incremental backups, as well as
addressing what's "accessible enough."

I'm starting this out with saying that I'm a complete realist: The
lucky among us will never need our backups, setting up backups for a
given system - whether for a full system image, user data backups, or
both - is typically a one-time affair, and actual recovery after a
catastrophic failure is likely to be very difficult, even if 100%
accessible, for the uninitiated. Thus, my focus on accessibility
when pushed will always be on the end user being able to run their
backups 100% independently once they've been configured. The
configuration of backups and recovery using them will very likely
require an assistant. I hasten to add that this applies just as much
to those who are sighted as those who are not. Even if assistance is
required for "the far ends" that's a far preferable way to have
things, while you're maintaining your backups, than to simply avoid
having backups. The more precious your data and, probably to a lesser
extent, but still, your time the more critical it is to have a backup
protocol using some sort of backup software for your system itself and
your user data.

Under Windows 10, for user data backup I haven't found anything I like
better than File History, and I've used others. It's about as
straightforward as it comes in keeping user data backups. You simply
have to decide how frequently you wish to have your files backed up
(for me, once a day is more than enough, the default is hourly), and
how long you want to keep the versions of the same file that get
backed up (for me three months is plenty; I've never needed any
version that was older than that, and the "latest" version of files
untouched will be kept forever unless you delete them, no matter when
you made your final tweaks).

I would be curious about what individuals are actually using that may
not be 100% accessible, end to end, but that is completely accessible
for maintaining active system image backups and/or data backups.

Specifically useful would be knowing if the software was paid/free, if
it's a free version whether it supports incremental and/or
differential backups [and these are not the same]. For those wanting
to know the difference between the two, run this duckduckgo search:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=incremental+versus+differential+backups and
look at the second returned result first (or at least that's my
favorite; the first isn't bad either). There are scads of general
discussions of the differences and each of the "big boys of backup"
talking about what they are and how to set them up.

There have got to be folks using not-100% accessible software to
maintain backups, praying that they'll be lucky and never need them
anyway. If so, please offer your experiences.
Searching the computer file

Nino Dagostino
 

When you do a search by pressing the windows key and letting up on it, can you set the file manager to search the computer and not the web.

 

Thank you so much.

 

Have a good day.

 

 
Re: Backup Software - Semi-Accessible

Steve Matzura
 

IFW  can do all three kinds of backups--image, differential, and incremental. it does *not* do file or directory backups. Your File History program sounds like a must-have, too.

On 8/16/2018 8:30 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
I'm starting this thread in it hopes that it might address an issue brought up on another thread, that of incremental backups, as well as addressing what's "accessible enough."

I'm starting this out with saying that I'm a complete realist: The lucky among us will never need our backups, setting up backups for a given system - whether for a full system image, user data backups, or both - is typically a one-time affair, and actual recovery after a catastrophic failure is likely to be very difficult, even if 100% accessible, for the uninitiated.   Thus, my focus on accessibility when pushed will always be on the end user being able to run their backups 100% independently once they've been configured.  The configuration of backups and recovery using them will very likely require an assistant.  I hasten to add that this applies just as much to those who are sighted as those who are not.   Even if assistance is required for "the far ends" that's a far preferable way to have things, while you're maintaining your backups, than to simply avoid having backups.  The more precious your data and, probably to a lesser extent, but still, your time the more critical it is to have a backup protocol using some sort of backup software for your system itself and your user data.

Under Windows 10, for user data backup I haven't found anything I like better than File History, and I've used others.  It's about as straightforward as it comes in keeping user data backups.  You simply have to decide how frequently you wish to have your files backed up (for me, once a day is more than enough, the default is hourly), and how long you want to keep the versions of the same file that get backed up (for me three months is plenty; I've never needed any version that was older than that, and the "latest" version of files untouched will be kept forever unless you delete them, no matter when you made your final tweaks).

I would be curious about what individuals are actually using that may not be 100% accessible, end to end, but that is completely accessible for maintaining active system image backups and/or data backups.

Specifically useful would be knowing if the software was paid/free, if it's a free version whether it supports incremental and/or differential backups [and these are not the same].  For those wanting to know the difference between the two, run this duckduckgo search: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=incremental+versus+differential+backups and look at the second returned result first (or at least that's my favorite; the first isn't bad either).  There are scads of general discussions of the differences and each of the "big boys of backup" talking about what they are and how to set them up.

There have got to be folks using not-100% accessible software to maintain backups, praying that they'll be lucky and never need them anyway.  If so, please offer your experiences.
Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Steve Matzura
 

OH David, I'm with ya on that! There's a difference between answering the same question over and over, and replying to a message that says the answer(s) is (or were) not understood. I have no problem with the latter; it's the former gives me fits. LOL. Example: where's the store? First answerer: over there. Where's the store? Second answerer: Did you not hear the person who just told you it's over there? Where's the store? Third answerer: Dammit, I just heard two people tell you. One more time, it's over freaking there! Second example: Where's the store? It's over there. Sorry, I can't see where you're pointing. Could you, would you, please tell me in more substantive terms, such as, it's straight ahead, down the block. Oh, right ... it's behind you and across the street. There were just so many back-and-forths yesterday just like that. I got the impression nobody was reading anything.


On 8/16/2018 6:35 PM, David & his pack of dogs wrote:

Playing devil’s advocate as they say, if the same answer is given and it does not answer the question, what good is it.  It would be like a blind person asking for directions and the sighted person just says, “Over there!”  Makes no difference how many times that sighted person says, “Over there” The blind person will not understand the directions. What’s involved, the person asking the question to be specific in what they want, then listening to the response and the person giving the answer has to be listening to the question in the first place not just rabbiting on with some scripted answer.  I have talked to such people so am not making that analysis up.  Communication goes both ways.  If a person brought in their computer or phoned into a help line and the person at the other end asked what the problem was, then got the response, “It does not work.” That is far too vague and it is up to the person asking to draw the person out.    
Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Steve Matzura
 

Brian, et al.:


While JAWS is useful to access programs to make backups, restoring one's system disk using JAWS as one's screenreader is next to not possible. There are backup programs that create a special partition in which JAWS can be installed and run so boot-drive restores can be done using it, but most of the programs that offer this facility aren't accessible, with or without JAWS. That's why one needs to know one's options for booting external media that has a screenreader installed on it. The Windows Pre-installation Environment is just one of those options. If one has Windows 10 version 1803, Narrator is a viable alternative.


Re your comment about downloading and booting the WinPE and trying to start some kind of speech on it, if I didn't imply or specifically state this before, there's nought you have to do to start NVDA on that thing. If you would just follow some of your own advice and read, really and truly read, the provided documentation before cranking it up, you'll be quite pleased with the results. Back in the old days, the watchword was always RTFM--read the fine manual. Unfortunately, many manuals were poorly written and in a lot of cases woefully incomplete and sometimes out-of-date for the programs they documented, so many people fell out of this practice. But today, things are vastly better, and the programs those manuals document are vastly more complex, so manual-reading is, in my unhumble opinion, a must for first-timers, and a good place to go to get quick and accurate answers for even us crusty curmudgeon veterans. It never ceases to confound me as to why someone would buy a piece of technology and not want to learn as much about it as they could from its provided documentation. OK, I own a television, but while I don't care or even need to care about how TV works, I do know and care about how to use it--its menus, options, what media it can play, what it can connect to, etc. If folks would do a bit more manual-reading, and asking questions about what they read that they don't understand, people would get a lot more work done  in a lot less time. These computers with which we all have love-hate relationships, they ain't toasters, ya know. That is to say, they're complex machines that require care and occasional maintenance.

On 8/16/2018 5:36 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 03:27 PM, Steve Matzura wrote:
That is the reason behind my frustration--not that you asked the questions--no, not at all--but that others asked them, I and others answered them, yet the same questions keep coming up in the thread, which indicates to me that nobody's reading the messages.
Trust me, no one more than myself understands and shares this frustration.  I am virtually driven mad on the various blind technology lists I'm on by the frequency of the same question being asked, or the same answer being given (and, yes, this is frustrating) over, and over, and over again because folks just won't read through an entire thread before making their next contribution.  I've said this, more than once, but it falls on deaf ears.  It makes understanding a conversation, and particularly in retrospect if reviewing an archive, hellishly more difficult.

The point I am now trying to make, and was trying to make, is that the nature of the information shared on this thread has been fragmentary, at best, and not entirely clear.

I full well intend to download the Windows PE from the sites mentioned and see if I can fire up either Narrator or NVDA or any kind of speech, as I have never experienced this firsthand and will openly admit that I "won't believe it until I hear it."

I am also frustrated by the fact that it seems a very large number of participants do not understand the difference between Windows 10 bootable media, which allows one to use Windows System Protection to attempt to roll back to a prior restore point, or to do things like trying to repair startup, with Windows PE, which is an entirely different animal used for entirely different (or at least almost entirely different) reasons.

I've been in this business for decades now, and when people are saying that you can do something that has, historically, been impossible it is really, really helpful if they can be crystal clear about what special workarounds are required (and it sounds like the alternate WinPE is one of those) and the specific steps needed to "pull it all together" even if a tutorial is not presented at the time.

Even though it's "heresy" on a JAWS forum, I don't care one whit whether the pre-Windows steps are accessible with JAWS or not.  I just care that they are accessible in some way with tools that can be obtained by anyone that needs them, at no cost, and are fairly straightforward for that demographic.  Very often "single environment" tools are required to do anything prior to the booting of the OS with which one is intimately (or not so intimately) familiar.
 
Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Steve Matzura
 

Narrator is now available in Safe Mode.  I think that came with 1803.


On 8/16/2018 4:07 PM, Mich Verrier wrote:

It was always my understanding that you can’t do anything in regards to working in something like safe moad or backing up a pc with out sighted help since the drivers for speech are not loaded. Having said that though I don’t have the tecknickle know how to do sutch a thing anyways. I have of korce as others have said herd that nvda and other things can be used how ever agree that I have not seen it dun and I also have not seen a step by step tutorial of how to do it that works every time across every system. From Mich.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: August 16, 2018 3:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

 

 

Brian is right about this issue.  I have been requesting a tutorial or demonstration on how to restore a backup image from an external drive without sighted help of any kind for years, but nobody has taken the bait, probably because despite claims to the contrary, it cannot be done by an average blind computer user or else does not work on all systems.  I think this is all hypothetical.  .  And in any event it most definitely cannot be done using JAWS.

 

Gerald

 

 

 

From: Brian Vogel

Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 2:45 PM

Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

 

On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 02:34 PM, Steve Matzura wrote:

I'm going to explode if I have to answer this again. Please read all the other messages in this thread.

I have, and you mentioned, here, that there is a version of Windows PE, and clearly a custom one, that has NVDA speech enabled.  This would not be the one that any backup and recovery tool taken "off the shelf" and if you used it to create recovery media would use.

I have not seen a single "unreasonable question" with regard to asking you, and you directly, for a step-by-step, comprehensive tutorial regarding what you do and how you do it.

I stand by my earlier statements that without an awful lot of specialized knowledge it is highly unlikely that the random blind or visually impaired user using "off the shelf" Windows PE recovery will have speech enabled and also have no idea of how/where to get it.

I thank you, and others, profusely for giving information about a Windows PE environment that has speech with NVDA, at the very least.

It would be really nice, though, to have a tutorial document going through everything from start to finish.
Re: paprika recipe manager?

Sieghard Weitzel
 

Hi Jessica,

 

After I went to Paprika’s website and clicked on support the Submit a Request link was pretty easy to find. It’s a straight forward webform where you fill in your email address, a subject, details about your issue and a few other pieces of information about the device you use, your version of Paprika and operating system etc. You can click on the link I probided and it will take you straight there.

 

Good luck,

Siegharrd

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 8:05 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: paprika recipe manager?

 

Hi

Yes, if anyone could figure out how to contact the developers, please let me know. I would love to get a fully accessible version of this for windows. It works great on iOS, android, and the Mac.


On Aug 16, 2018, at 10:25 PM, Sieghard Weitzel <sieghard@...> wrote:

Hi Bill,

 

I think Jessica misspelled, she wrote “100% enaccessible” instead of 100% inaccessible”.

I bought the Paprika Windows app a few years ago when it was still a desktop app and it was very inaccessible then, I assume they maybe have a Windows 10 app now, whether it’s designed as a UWP app or just a ported desktop app I don’t know. Anyhow, you can use it on an iPhone where it is actually extremely accessible. Yes, it would be nice if the Windows version were also accessible since I could imagine it would be easier if you wanted to bring some of your own recipes into Paprika to do this on a PC. I actually have quite a lot of recipes which I simply saved as text files and if I could use Paprika on the PC I could just make a new reccipe and then copy and paste from Notepad into Paprika, but sadly for now this is not an option.

 

Regards,

Sieghard

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 11:57 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: paprika recipe manager?

 

Hi, Jessica. If the app is 100% accessible, what do you need JAWS to fix?

 

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 11:54 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: paprika recipe manager?

 

Hi

I’m a huge fan of Paprika recipe manager.

 

I’m using jaws 18, with windows 10.

 

This app is 100% enaccessible.

 

Can jaws fix this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 
Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Brian Vogel
 

On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 07:57 PM, Isaac wrote:
In particular I am talking about image for windows, how can I copy the image bit by bit as not to loose licenses?
You keep asking this question as though "bit-by-bit" is the one and only way this can be done.

Disc cloning is, bit-by-bit (or, more accurately, block by block) duplication of an existing disc to another.  The target disc can be either larger or smaller than the source disc so long as the entirety of the actual data and empty space in formatted partitions can fit on the target disc.

Each and every system image backup utility, which does not literally do a bit by bit clone, can and does reconstruct a system on the physical disc to which the image is being restored such that all user data, software, licenses, etc., are completely intact.  That's its whole reason for being, and it is preferred to cloning since a full system image backup does not require it's own dedicated drive, like a clone does.  I have 5 different systems in my household backed up on two external backup drives and still have plenty of space on each of those respective drives for other uses when I need it.

There is nothing about keeping your licenses and everything else that need involve cloning, and typically it won't involve cloning.  Some people, though, do use disc cloning as their backup method, but that requires sacrificing the ability to use the drives cloned to for any other purpose, or at least the portion taken up by the exact amount of partitioned space from the drive that was cloned.  One could, in theory, create a separate partition in free space beyond the physical limit of the cloned area itself.  But talk about going around Jake's barn to do something, no, thanks.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill
Re: paprika recipe manager?

Jessica D
 

Hi
Yes, if anyone could figure out how to contact the developers, please let me know. I would love to get a fully accessible version of this for windows. It works great on iOS, android, and the Mac.


On Aug 16, 2018, at 10:25 PM, Sieghard Weitzel <sieghard@...> wrote:

Hi Bill,

 

I think Jessica misspelled, she wrote “100% enaccessible” instead of 100% inaccessible”.

I bought the Paprika Windows app a few years ago when it was still a desktop app and it was very inaccessible then, I assume they maybe have a Windows 10 app now, whether it’s designed as a UWP app or just a ported desktop app I don’t know. Anyhow, you can use it on an iPhone where it is actually extremely accessible. Yes, it would be nice if the Windows version were also accessible since I could imagine it would be easier if you wanted to bring some of your own recipes into Paprika to do this on a PC. I actually have quite a lot of recipes which I simply saved as text files and if I could use Paprika on the PC I could just make a new reccipe and then copy and paste from Notepad into Paprika, but sadly for now this is not an option.

 

Regards,

Sieghard

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 11:57 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: paprika recipe manager?

 

Hi, Jessica. If the app is 100% accessible, what do you need JAWS to fix?

 

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 11:54 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: paprika recipe manager?

 

Hi

I’m a huge fan of Paprika recipe manager.

 

I’m using jaws 18, with windows 10.

 

This app is 100% enaccessible.

 

Can jaws fix this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 
Re: paprika recipe manager?

Sieghard Weitzel
 

Hi Bill,

 

I think Jessica misspelled, she wrote “100% enaccessible” instead of 100% inaccessible”.

I bought the Paprika Windows app a few years ago when it was still a desktop app and it was very inaccessible then, I assume they maybe have a Windows 10 app now, whether it’s designed as a UWP app or just a ported desktop app I don’t know. Anyhow, you can use it on an iPhone where it is actually extremely accessible. Yes, it would be nice if the Windows version were also accessible since I could imagine it would be easier if you wanted to bring some of your own recipes into Paprika to do this on a PC. I actually have quite a lot of recipes which I simply saved as text files and if I could use Paprika on the PC I could just make a new reccipe and then copy and paste from Notepad into Paprika, but sadly for now this is not an option.

 

Regards,

Sieghard

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 11:57 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: paprika recipe manager?

 

Hi, Jessica. If the app is 100% accessible, what do you need JAWS to fix?

 

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 11:54 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: paprika recipe manager?

 

Hi

I’m a huge fan of Paprika recipe manager.

 

I’m using jaws 18, with windows 10.

 

This app is 100% enaccessible.

 

Can jaws fix this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 
Re: Backup Software - Semi-Accessible

Richard Turner
 

That makes perfect sense Brian, thank you again.
I wouldn't hae left the drive plugged in, partly because I suspect there is a drop in available processing while it is backing up, but honestly I hadn't considered the Ransomware potential. Knock on wood, I have not ever had that issue, but I truly do not open things unless I am absolutely sure it is from a reliable source.  
Thanks again for your help,
Richard


"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it." -- Terry Pratchett



[Sent from my little hand-held computer]



On Aug 16, 2018, at 6:42 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Richard,

            One thing I will tell you, which sounds quite counterintuitive, but do not leave your backup drive connected to your computer at all times, particularly if you know you don't need hourly, or even daily, backups on a routine basis.

             The reason for this is the appearance of ransomware on the scene to a greater extent than in the past.  In almost all cases, if you are unfortunate enough to be hit by ransomware, each and every drive attached to the machine will be encrypted.  The last thing you want to have encrypted is your backup drive (unless you're really anal retentive, have two, and swap them out on a routine basis - which is a PITA because you have to tell File History or whatever that its target drive has changed).

              If you have File History set up, and you keep the drive disconnected, Windows 10 will nag you (and I think the interval may be based on how you set up File History frequency) about the drive having been disconnected for too long, and to connect it.  This is actually a good thing, at least as far as I'm concerned, because I can dismiss the message yet rely on it reappearing.  I respond to it as often as I feel I need to based on how much new user data has been created since I last let File History do a backup.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill
Re: Backup Software - Semi-Accessible

Brian Vogel
 

Richard,

            One thing I will tell you, which sounds quite counterintuitive, but do not leave your backup drive connected to your computer at all times, particularly if you know you don't need hourly, or even daily, backups on a routine basis.

             The reason for this is the appearance of ransomware on the scene to a greater extent than in the past.  In almost all cases, if you are unfortunate enough to be hit by ransomware, each and every drive attached to the machine will be encrypted.  The last thing you want to have encrypted is your backup drive (unless you're really anal retentive, have two, and swap them out on a routine basis - which is a PITA because you have to tell File History or whatever that its target drive has changed).

              If you have File History set up, and you keep the drive disconnected, Windows 10 will nag you (and I think the interval may be based on how you set up File History frequency) about the drive having been disconnected for too long, and to connect it.  This is actually a good thing, at least as far as I'm concerned, because I can dismiss the message yet rely on it reappearing.  I respond to it as often as I feel I need to based on how much new user data has been created since I last let File History do a backup.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill
Re: Backup Software - Semi-Accessible

Richard Turner
 

Thanks Brian,
That is very helpful.  I found a web site from How To Geek, that explains how to use File History.  I will try this later and let folks know if no one else has by then how accessible it is.

Richard



"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it." -- Terry Pratchett



[Sent from my little hand-held computer]



On Aug 16, 2018, at 5:30 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

I'm starting this thread in it hopes that it might address an issue brought up on another thread, that of incremental backups, as well as addressing what's "accessible enough."

I'm starting this out with saying that I'm a complete realist:  The lucky among us will never need our backups, setting up backups for a given system - whether for a full system image, user data backups, or both - is typically a one-time affair, and actual recovery after a catastrophic failure is likely to be very difficult, even if 100% accessible, for the uninitiated.   Thus, my focus on accessibility when pushed will always be on the end user being able to run their backups 100% independently once they've been configured.  The configuration of backups and recovery using them will very likely require an assistant.  I hasten to add that this applies just as much to those who are sighted as those who are not.   Even if assistance is required for "the far ends" that's a far preferable way to have things, while you're maintaining your backups, than to simply avoid having backups.  The more precious your data and, probably to a lesser extent, but still, your time the more critical it is to have a backup protocol using some sort of backup software for your system itself and your user data.

Under Windows 10, for user data backup I haven't found anything I like better than File History, and I've used others.  It's about as straightforward as it comes in keeping user data backups.  You simply have to decide how frequently you wish to have your files backed up (for me, once a day is more than enough, the default is hourly), and how long you want to keep the versions of the same file that get backed up (for me three months is plenty; I've never needed any version that was older than that, and the "latest" version of files untouched will be kept forever unless you delete them, no matter when you made your final tweaks).

I would be curious about what individuals are actually using that may not be 100% accessible, end to end, but that is completely accessible for maintaining active system image backups and/or data backups.

Specifically useful would be knowing if the software was paid/free, if it's a free version whether it supports incremental and/or differential backups [and these are not the same].  For those wanting to know the difference between the two, run this duckduckgo search:  https://duckduckgo.com/?q=incremental+versus+differential+backups and look at the second returned result first (or at least that's my favorite; the first isn't bad either).  There are scads of general discussions of the differences and each of the "big boys of backup" talking about what they are and how to set them up.

There have got to be folks using not-100% accessible software to maintain backups, praying that they'll be lucky and never need them anyway.  If so, please offer your experiences.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill
Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Mich Verrier
 

It was always my understanding that you can’t do anything in regards to working in something like safe moad or backing up a pc with out sighted help since the drivers for speech are not loaded. Having said that though I don’t have the tecknickle know how to do sutch a thing anyways. I have of korce as others have said herd that nvda and other things can be used how ever agree that I have not seen it dun and I also have not seen a step by step tutorial of how to do it that works every time across every system. From Mich.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: August 16, 2018 3:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

 

 

Brian is right about this issue.  I have been requesting a tutorial or demonstration on how to restore a backup image from an external drive without sighted help of any kind for years, but nobody has taken the bait, probably because despite claims to the contrary, it cannot be done by an average blind computer user or else does not work on all systems.  I think this is all hypothetical.  .  And in any event it most definitely cannot be done using JAWS.

 

Gerald

 

 

 

Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 2:45 PM

Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

 

On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 02:34 PM, Steve Matzura wrote:

I'm going to explode if I have to answer this again. Please read all the other messages in this thread.

I have, and you mentioned, here, that there is a version of Windows PE, and clearly a custom one, that has NVDA speech enabled.  This would not be the one that any backup and recovery tool taken "off the shelf" and if you used it to create recovery media would use.

I have not seen a single "unreasonable question" with regard to asking you, and you directly, for a step-by-step, comprehensive tutorial regarding what you do and how you do it.

I stand by my earlier statements that without an awful lot of specialized knowledge it is highly unlikely that the random blind or visually impaired user using "off the shelf" Windows PE recovery will have speech enabled and also have no idea of how/where to get it.

I thank you, and others, profusely for giving information about a Windows PE environment that has speech with NVDA, at the very least.

It would be really nice, though, to have a tutorial document going through everything from start to finish.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill
Backup Software - Semi-Accessible

Brian Vogel
 

I'm starting this thread in it hopes that it might address an issue brought up on another thread, that of incremental backups, as well as addressing what's "accessible enough."

I'm starting this out with saying that I'm a complete realist:  The lucky among us will never need our backups, setting up backups for a given system - whether for a full system image, user data backups, or both - is typically a one-time affair, and actual recovery after a catastrophic failure is likely to be very difficult, even if 100% accessible, for the uninitiated.   Thus, my focus on accessibility when pushed will always be on the end user being able to run their backups 100% independently once they've been configured.  The configuration of backups and recovery using them will very likely require an assistant.  I hasten to add that this applies just as much to those who are sighted as those who are not.   Even if assistance is required for "the far ends" that's a far preferable way to have things, while you're maintaining your backups, than to simply avoid having backups.  The more precious your data and, probably to a lesser extent, but still, your time the more critical it is to have a backup protocol using some sort of backup software for your system itself and your user data.

Under Windows 10, for user data backup I haven't found anything I like better than File History, and I've used others.  It's about as straightforward as it comes in keeping user data backups.  You simply have to decide how frequently you wish to have your files backed up (for me, once a day is more than enough, the default is hourly), and how long you want to keep the versions of the same file that get backed up (for me three months is plenty; I've never needed any version that was older than that, and the "latest" version of files untouched will be kept forever unless you delete them, no matter when you made your final tweaks).

I would be curious about what individuals are actually using that may not be 100% accessible, end to end, but that is completely accessible for maintaining active system image backups and/or data backups.

Specifically useful would be knowing if the software was paid/free, if it's a free version whether it supports incremental and/or differential backups [and these are not the same].  For those wanting to know the difference between the two, run this duckduckgo search:  https://duckduckgo.com/?q=incremental+versus+differential+backups and look at the second returned result first (or at least that's my favorite; the first isn't bad either).  There are scads of general discussions of the differences and each of the "big boys of backup" talking about what they are and how to set them up.

There have got to be folks using not-100% accessible software to maintain backups, praying that they'll be lucky and never need them anyway.  If so, please offer your experiences.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill
Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Richard Turner
 

I promise, this is my last post on this topic.
I have read all the posts, and because we were talking at cross purposes at first, things did not make sense.
I was always looking for a way to do incremental backups, and the answers were all about image backups.
I will now cease and desist because it would appear there is no solution for me other than manually doing the backups by copying and pasting.
Richard


"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it." -- Terry Pratchett



[Sent from my little hand-held computer]



On Aug 16, 2018, at 4:57 PM, Isaac <bigikemusic@...> wrote:

In particular I am talking about image for windows, how can I copy the image bit by bit as not to loose licenses?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 03:36 PM, Isaac wrote:
How to make the bit by bit copy or unused sectors copy?
Most commonly known as a disk clone, and that's its own thing, though many system image programs can make them.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill
Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Isaac <bigikemusic@...>
 


In particular I am talking about image for windows, how can I copy the image bit by bit as not to loose licenses?

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 03:36 PM, Isaac wrote:
How to make the bit by bit copy or unused sectors copy?
Most commonly known as a disk clone, and that's its own thing, though many system image programs can make them.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill
Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Isaac <bigikemusic@...>
 


Only one correction, windows protection is a form of windows pe, you can look at boot.wim and it will tell you this by checking each image in boot.wim with dism.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 03:27 PM, Steve Matzura wrote:
That is the reason behind my frustration--not that you asked the questions--no, not at all--but that others asked them, I and others answered them, yet the same questions keep coming up in the thread, which indicates to me that nobody's reading the messages.
Trust me, no one more than myself understands and shares this frustration.  I am virtually driven mad on the various blind technology lists I'm on by the frequency of the same question being asked, or the same answer being given (and, yes, this is frustrating) over, and over, and over again because folks just won't read through an entire thread before making their next contribution.  I've said this, more than once, but it falls on deaf ears.  It makes understanding a conversation, and particularly in retrospect if reviewing an archive, hellishly more difficult.

The point I am now trying to make, and was trying to make, is that the nature of the information shared on this thread has been fragmentary, at best, and not entirely clear.

I full well intend to download the Windows PE from the sites mentioned and see if I can fire up either Narrator or NVDA or any kind of speech, as I have never experienced this firsthand and will openly admit that I "won't believe it until I hear it."

I am also frustrated by the fact that it seems a very large number of participants do not understand the difference between Windows 10 bootable media, which allows one to use Windows System Protection to attempt to roll back to a prior restore point, or to do things like trying to repair startup, with Windows PE, which is an entirely different animal used for entirely different (or at least almost entirely different) reasons.

I've been in this business for decades now, and when people are saying that you can do something that has, historically, been impossible it is really, really helpful if they can be crystal clear about what special workarounds are required (and it sounds like the alternate WinPE is one of those) and the specific steps needed to "pull it all together" even if a tutorial is not presented at the time.

Even though it's "heresy" on a JAWS forum, I don't care one whit whether the pre-Windows steps are accessible with JAWS or not.  I just care that they are accessible in some way with tools that can be obtained by anyone that needs them, at no cost, and are fairly straightforward for that demographic.  Very often "single environment" tools are required to do anything prior to the booting of the OS with which one is intimately (or not so intimately) familiar.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill
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