Hello Lists,

I currently have a Lenovo laptop running Windows 10 64-bit. I have Jaws 2022 on it with a Focus 40 Braille display.

When I go to Windows update, it keeps asking me to upgrade to Windows 11.

I am wondering if anyone on either list has done this.

Were you able to do it successfully with no sighted assistance, or do you need sighted assistance.

Can you please provide some guidance.

When the Windows upgrad to Windows 11 runs, will it kick out the Jaws installation, ore will it remain.

I am just trying to figure this out.

Thanks,

Jeff Lukacsena

Hello:

I am still trying to better understand your problem. Is it that you hear
nothing at all when navigating over bulleted lists or that you don't here
the bullets spoken or what? I just need some clarification.

Cordially,

Curtis Chong

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of musiime ralph
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2022 4:37 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Jaws not reading numbered or bulleted lists

Hello,
I don’t know why my jaws doesn’t read numbered or bulleted lists while
navigating. All it reads are the words skipping the numbered or bulleted
lists. How can I tell jaws to read my numbered and bulleted lists.

On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 12:32 PM, Soronel Haetir wrote:

I find that more difficult for programs using the ribbon but I still try.

-
If you have not already done so, please read Gene Asner's tutorial on using the ribbons, in which he also covers the Windows split button as a thing of its own:
Using Ribbons to Control Program Functions in Microsoft Windows - G. Asner

Then my two:
Using the Ribbon Interface in Windows via the Keyboard
Deeper Detail on the Ribbon Interface and Navigating It

Then Microsoft's own: Microsoft Support:  Use the Keyboard to Work with the Ribbon

The ribbons are menus, they are just navigated differently.  I don't like them as much as I liked the old menu system, but the old menu system was becoming unmanageable with submenu depth, and too much was completely hidden.  And, as you've noted, they're not going away and are the default UI for virtually all things Windows.

Once you get used to navigating the ribbon by command control groups, which is dirt simple once you've done it a couple of times, it starts to feel very "old menu like."  It's just the exact how you get where you're going that changes.

I encourage any user, blind or sighted, to create their own "Greatest Hits Cheat Sheet" for the direct keyboard shortcuts to the commands they use either constantly or frequently, which was even common practice during the menu era.  It's way faster to use those for what you do frequently, but having explored the all the ribbons in an application, as you used to do for all the menus in a program, lets you have something in the back of your head about having encountered something when you hit an occasion where you need it.

Things like Word have become so complex that the ribbons as a whole are not comprehensive in presenting each and every command.  There are some that are so obscure, and so infrequently used except by a select group of users, that you need to customize specific ribbons or even add one of the normally hidden ribbons.  Since I do work with creating fillable MS-Word templates for forms of various types I have the Developer tab/ribbon shown in the collection of tabs.  Many people who use Word will never encounter that ribbon because they don't ever have occasion to use it.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

       ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

Hello Lists,

I currently have a Lenovo laptop running Windows 10 64-bit. I have Jaws 2022 on it with a Focus 40 Braille display.

When I go to Windows update, it keeps asking me to upgrade to Windows 11.

I am wondering if anyone on either list has done this.

Were you able to do it successfully with no sighted assistance, or do you need sighted assistance.

Can you please provide some guidance.

When the Windows upgrad to Windows 11 runs, will it kick out the Jaws installation, ore will it remain.

I am just trying to figure this out.

Thanks,

Jeff Lukacsena

On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 12:32 PM, Soronel Haetir wrote:

I find that more difficult for programs using the ribbon but I still try.

-
If you have not already done so, please read Gene Asner's tutorial on using
the ribbons, in which he also covers the Windows split button as a thing of
its own:
Using Ribbons to Control Program Functions in Microsoft Windows - G. Asner (
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1uTKhZZxWZ2QtF3KQgFCnO__gDdBKWmEn
)

Then my two:
Using the Ribbon Interface in Windows via the Keyboard (
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B98uELZbPFnOTUI1dDhDaHpwTk0
)
Deeper Detail on the Ribbon Interface and Navigating It (
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1kaM3GbWPo9MgqJlQzmcBpqLvsTmGjGOX
)

Then Microsoft's own: Microsoft Support:  Use the Keyboard to Work with the
Ribbon (
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/use-the-keyboard-to-work-with-the-ribbon-954cd3f7-2f77-4983-978d-c09b20e31f0e
)

The ribbons are menus, they are just navigated differently.  I don't like
them as much as I liked the old menu system, but the old menu system was
becoming unmanageable with submenu depth, and too much was completely
hidden.  And, as you've noted, they're not going away and are the default UI
for virtually all things Windows.

Once you get used to navigating the ribbon by command control groups, which
is dirt simple once you've done it a couple of times, it starts to feel very
"old menu like."  It's just the exact how you get where you're going that
changes.

I encourage any user, blind or sighted, to create their own "Greatest Hits
Cheat Sheet" for the direct keyboard shortcuts to the commands they use
either constantly or frequently, which was even common practice during the
menu era.  It's way faster to use those for what you do frequently, but
having explored the all the ribbons in an application, as you used to do for
all the menus in a program, lets you have something in the back of your head
about having encountered something when you hit an occasion where you need
it.

Things like Word have become so complex that the ribbons as a whole are not
comprehensive in presenting each and every command.  There are some that are
so obscure, and so infrequently used except by a select group of users, that
you need to customize specific ribbons or even add one of the normally
hidden ribbons.  Since I do work with creating fillable MS-Word templates
for forms of various types I have the Developer tab/ribbon shown in the
collection of tabs.  Many people who use Word will never encounter that
ribbon because they don't ever have occasion to use it.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its
platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.*

~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment
Took Hold in the United States (
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/23/health/anti-vaccination-movement-us.html
) , September 23, 2019

Hello Lists,

I currently have a Lenovo laptop running Windows 10 64-bit. I have Jaws 2022 on it with a Focus 40 Braille display.

When I go to Windows update, it keeps asking me to upgrade to Windows 11.

I am wondering if anyone on either list has done this.

Were you able to do it successfully with no sighted assistance, or do you need sighted assistance.

Can you please provide some guidance.

When the Windows upgrad to Windows 11 runs, will it kick out the Jaws installation, ore will it remain.

I am just trying to figure this out.

Thanks,

Jeff Lukacsena

Because installed applications and apps both can have very different UIs,
you'll probably get more responses, and of higher quality, if you provide a
couple of examples of applications or apps you're thinking about.

This is a very difficult question to answer purely in the abstract, as so
much depends on the "style" of the given apps or applications.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its
platform. Now, you simply declare your own truth.*

~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment
Took Hold in the United States (
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/23/health/anti-vaccination-movement-us.html
) , September 23, 2019

Because installed applications and apps both can have very different UIs,
you'll probably get more responses, and of higher quality, if you provide a
couple of examples of applications or apps you're thinking about.

This is a very difficult question to answer purely in the abstract, as so
much depends on the "style" of the given apps or applications.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its
platform. Now, you simply declare your own truth.*

~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment
Took Hold in the United States (
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/23/health/anti-vaccination-movement-us.html
) , September 23, 2019