Date   

Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Cy Selfridge
 

Dave,
At 660 WPM one's fingers would have melted and fallen off. (LOLLOLLOL)
At least I know someone is reading my emails. (happy face)
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Dave Durber
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 3:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Cy:

660 words per minute! At that rate, anyone's finger joints would definitely
suffer from chronic carpo tunnel syndrome. Now 60 to 70 words might be
nearer the mark, hehehehehehehe!

Dave Durber

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@comcast.net>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:33 PM
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


Hi,
There is no excuse for *not* learning touch typing.
The secretaries all have to touch type because they are looking at their
short hand to see what they are supposed to say.
660 words per minute is pretty much the norm for a good typest (I ain't no
where near there - LOLLOLLOL) and you can not reach anything near that
speed
by looking at the keyboard. JMO, Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 5:45 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

I guess every school for the blind in the country taught typing, even back
in The Bronze Age. I've heard Ronnie Millsap joke that they only did it
so
the house parents wouldn't have to help write letters home, but it turned
out to be one of the best investments of time I ever made--and I did it
for
7 of my 12 years, never dreaming what lay down the road.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Stephanie Switzer
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 6:18 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

I learned touch typing by using Talking typer. From what I can remember
they
introduce you to a few keys at a time until you've learned the entire
keyboard. Braille on a computer keyboard isn't really necessary because
the
F and J keys have a line or a dot (depending on how old the computer is)
on
them. When I took Keyboarding in school the teacher made us learn touch
typing. (I took it with sighted kids because I was main
streamed.) I tried the braille overlays when I was about your daughter's
age
and they kept slipping off the keyboard (Do those still exist?) Finally
one
of my Vision impaired teachers (V. I.s) got me talking typer. Anyway I
started writing this to point out that most sighted people don't look at
the
keyboard while they type, so why should we? :) I'm only saying the
"sighted
people" part because I remember that my keyboarding teacher said it over
and
over. :) I admire you for allowing your daughter the chance to use a
quarity
keyboard. I didn't get to use one until resently. Though that was more the
school's fault then my parrents.
lol. :)
Good luck with everthing! :)

On 6/22/12, Kimsan Song <kimsansong@aol.com> wrote:
Oh? My? Gosh? Dave Carlson you crack me up!

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Going 60
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:11 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Late? Not at all. It's still 2012. You have up to a year, month, and a
day to respond. OF course the originator may have moved on to other
topics -- or lists, or countries.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: <ckrugman@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 07:01
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


Hi Richard,
This is a late response. I first started to learn to type on an old
manual typewriter when I was about your daughter's age fifty years
ago. At thattime
my classroom had a Braille book with a prototype of a keyboard
showing
keys with Braille labels that was part of the Braille book. I
memorized the keyboard and my average typing speed on a typewriter is
about 60-70 WPM. If your daughter is going to be proficient she needs
to learn proper fingering and memorization. This is the same method
that professional sighted stenographers and typists have used for
years. Of course, at that time while use of Braille was encouraged for
totally blind children it was also expected that blind children
learned how to adapt and used standard whenever possible. hope this
helps.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:02 AM
Subject: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I am a typically sighted parent of a blind child (age 9). I interact
with many other parents of blind children and could use some advice
for my child and to share with other parents.

My daughter was effectively born blind having lost all usable vision
by a few months of age. She learned braille from the start and
learned to type on a perkins brailler first, then started to learn
qwerty. She much prefers to use a braille keyboard on her computer
and notetaker (Apex) as well, keeping a qwerety keyboard plugged in
on her computer for occasional use for certain keys and functions.

My question is this: What is the best way for a blind typist to learn
to use a qwerty keyboard; to do this most efficiently? Is it using
JAWS feedback with the repeating of characters verbally as typed?
What about the braille key caps, or at least braille stickers for
keys? (I have never yet found a USB braille key capped keyboard, only
an old PS-2 style unit) I get that touch typing and just pressing
down on braille key caps would be of little use braille-wise, but is
is like for sighted typists, in that it helps get reoriented when
your fingers move or you get distracted, etc., and just to learn
qwerty in the beginning? It would be easy enough to remove the
braille and go with a standard keyboard later on-- conventional
keyboards are cheap.

What we end up with as parents is an argument between (mostly
typically-sighted) parents that braille caps are a great idea vs. how
bad of an idea they are to use. I'm not trying to sit in either
camp-- I'm wondering which seems to help (and curious about any
suggestions of the best ways to learn qwerty typing without vision).

I don't want to clog up the list too much with this, though it is
JAWS-related, obviously. Please do feel free to reply directly if you
prefer. Your response may be valuable to quite a few parents of
younger, keyboard-learning braille computer users, so thanks for any
experience you may be able to share.

Richard
_______________________________________________
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Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Cy Selfridge
 

Oops, yes, 60 WPM is what I meant.
I am using a wireless keyboard and, unfortunately, it has its own opinion on
what to put down. (LOLLOLLOL)
I am also sure that my days as "Fat Finger" have not all gone away.
(LOLLOLLOL)
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Chris Smart
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 5:29 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

uh, i think you meant 60 words a minute, not 660? *grin*

Has anyone here tried the alternative Dvorak keyboard layout?
Apparently you can reach well over 100 words per minute on it, although
after typing on a Qwerty for over 20 years, it would certainly take me some
time to relearn a new layout.

Chris

At 02:33 PM 6/26/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
There is no excuse for *not* learning touch typing.
The secretaries all have to touch type because they are looking at
their short hand to see what they are supposed to say.
660 words per minute is pretty much the norm for a good typest (I ain't
no where near there - LOLLOLLOL) and you can not reach anything near
that speed by looking at the keyboard. JMO, Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 5:45 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

I guess every school for the blind in the country taught typing, even
back in The Bronze Age. I've heard Ronnie Millsap joke that they only
did it so the house parents wouldn't have to help write letters home,
but it turned out to be one of the best investments of time I ever
made--and I did it for
7 of my 12 years, never dreaming what lay down the road.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Stephanie Switzer
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 6:18 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

I learned touch typing by using Talking typer. From what I can remember
they introduce you to a few keys at a time until you've learned the
entire keyboard. Braille on a computer keyboard isn't really necessary
because the F and J keys have a line or a dot (depending on how old the
computer is) on them. When I took Keyboarding in school the teacher
made us learn touch typing. (I took it with sighted kids because I was
main
streamed.) I tried the braille overlays when I was about your
daughter's age and they kept slipping off the keyboard (Do those still
exist?) Finally one of my Vision impaired teachers (V. I.s) got me
talking typer. Anyway I started writing this to point out that most
sighted people don't look at the keyboard while they type, so why
should we? :) I'm only saying the "sighted people" part because I
remember that my keyboarding teacher said it over and over. :) I admire
you for allowing your daughter the chance to use a quarity keyboard. I
didn't get to use one until resently. Though that was more the school's
fault then my parrents.
lol. :)
Good luck with everthing! :)

On 6/22/12, Kimsan Song <kimsansong@aol.com> wrote:
Oh? My? Gosh? Dave Carlson you crack me up!

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Going 60
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:11 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Late? Not at all. It's still 2012. You have up to a year,
month, and a

day to respond. OF course the originator may have moved on to
other
topics -- or lists, or countries.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a
Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: <ckrugman@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 07:01
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


Hi Richard,
This is a late response. I first started to learn to type on
an old
manual typewriter when I was about your daughter's age fifty years
ago. At thattime
my classroom had a Braille book with a prototype of a keyboard
showing
keys with Braille labels that was part of the Braille book. I
memorized the keyboard and my average typing speed on a
typewriter is
about 60-70 WPM. If your daughter is going to be proficient she
needs
to learn proper fingering and memorization. This is the same
method
that professional sighted stenographers and typists have used for
years. Of course, at that time while use of Braille was
encouraged for

totally blind children it was also expected that blind children
learned how to adapt and used standard whenever possible. hope
this
helps.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:02 AM
Subject: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I am a typically sighted parent of a blind child (age 9). I
interact
with many other parents of blind children and could use some
advice
for my child and to share with other parents.

My daughter was effectively born blind having lost all usable
vision
by a few months of age. She learned braille from the start and
learned to type on a perkins brailler first, then started to
learn
qwerty. She much prefers to use a braille keyboard on her
computer
and notetaker (Apex) as well, keeping a qwerety keyboard
plugged in
on her computer for occasional use for certain keys and functions.

My question is this: What is the best way for a blind typist
to learn

to use a qwerty keyboard; to do this most efficiently? Is it
using
JAWS feedback with the repeating of characters verbally as typed?
What about the braille key caps, or at least braille stickers for
keys? (I have never yet found a USB braille key capped
keyboard, only

an old PS-2 style unit) I get that touch typing and just pressing
down on braille key caps would be of little use braille-wise,
but is
is like for sighted typists, in that it helps get reoriented when
your fingers move or you get distracted, etc., and just to learn
qwerty in the beginning? It would be easy enough to remove the
braille and go with a standard keyboard later on-- conventional
keyboards are cheap.

What we end up with as parents is an argument between (mostly
typically-sighted) parents that braille caps are a great idea
vs. how

bad of an idea they are to use. I'm not trying to sit in either
camp-- I'm wondering which seems to help (and curious about any
suggestions of the best ways to learn qwerty typing without
vision).

I don't want to clog up the list too much with this, though it is
JAWS-related, obviously. Please do feel free to reply directly
if you

prefer. Your response may be valuable to quite a few parents of
younger, keyboard-learning braille computer users, so thanks
for any
experience you may be able to share.

Richard
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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_______________________________________________
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http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/CTS-Mastering/139114066128698
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Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Cristóbal
 

Use the keyboard enough and it'll soon be muscle memory.

There are instances however, where on keyboards a dot indicator may be
useful.

Whenever I buy a new computer be it a laptop, desktop or even a wireless
keyboard for either machine, I'll buy some dots sold by the Braille
Institute that can be placed on certain keys and are small and unobtrusive
enough to where they don't get in the way of me typing, but are noticeable
so I can quickly get my barings without really having to stop to figure out
where I am. The function keys f4, f7 and f12 for example. As well as the
numbers 6 and 0 on the top number row and sometimes the delete button
depending on where it is.

Not necessarily because I have to constantly remind myself where a
particular key is, but rather when the configuration is such where keys are
bunched together and I don't feel like double checking that I'm pressing the
6 instead of the five on the top row or pressing the f7 key instead of the f
6 key but rather just need that split second of tactile recognition tnat I
am in fact on the right key. Same goes for the neighboring keys to the ones
I've placed buttons on. The 5 and 7 or 9 and the dash keys as another
example.

On laptop keyboards especially where the keys are all bunched and can feel
quite nearly the same, the split second here and there where you're flying
around the keyboard can add up if you have those subtle landmarks on those
particular keys that will give you your barings.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


To offer a slightly different perspective, I'm typically sighted and I
touch type most of the time, but sometimes I have one hand occupied or
am trying to do things in a way that I cannot use two hands properly
on the keyboard.

Also, some commands with modifier keys, especially multiple modifiers
I just cannot manage to type without looking.

My daughter is a super Braille typist and quite good on a qwerty
keyboard, but it still seems to me that it would be handy if my
daughter were able to "glance" at the keyboard when she wanted to as well.

All the TVI's I know, and numerous blind friends and associates, as
well as numerous other parents of blind children seem to think I'm an
idiot over this point. My thought is, make a Braille-key-capped
keyboard I can get and let my daughter see if it is of any use. If it
isn't, I stick in in the pile of other gear that was less useful than I
hoped.

There are, in fact, a few actual keyboards like that which have been
made, but I have only seen them listed on-line and they were PS-2
style, never USB, and around $200 or $300. There were photos, they
clearly existed at some point, but I never managed to confirm any were
still available for sale.

I figure one of these days a "proper" Braille USB model will appear
somewhere. The Braille stickers ARE still available, but I understand
(and
believe) the will make a sticky, oozing mess over time. I think one
would to as well with dymo labels or stick-on sheets from a Perkins
Brailler.

They make many other special sets of actual key caps color coded for
sighted users for programs like Photoshop or various Video Editing
programs such as Final Cut Pro. It would be simple and reasonably
inexpensive to custom mold keys with Braille in quantity.

Sorry of this is too far off topic, but it could directly impact the
ability of some users (like my daughter) to utilize JAWS. Also correct
me if I'm wrong, but it seems like it would be easy to ignore when
touch typing, and the two standard keys which are usually marked could
still have a unique feel if properly designed, such that one would not
need to run fingers across to read those two letters over and over,
yet if out of position, a quick swipe over a key, even "hunt and peck"
style could let a Braille typist hit one needed key with reduced effort.

I like having this option as a sighted typist. Why should by daughter
not have that option as well?

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 25, 2012, at 6:17 PM, Stephanie Switzer <emmanrusty@gmail.com>
wrote:

I learned touch typing by using Talking typer. From what I can
remember they introduce you to a few keys at a time until you've
learned the entire keyboard. Braille on a computer keyboard isn't
really necessary because the F and J keys have a line or a dot
(depending on how old the computer is) on them. When I took
Keyboarding in school the teacher made us learn touch typing. (I took
it with sighted kids because I was main streamed.) I tried the
braille overlays when I was about your daughter's age and they kept
slipping off the keyboard (Do those still exist?) Finally one of my
Vision impaired teachers (V. I.s) got me talking typer. Anyway I
started writing this to point out that most sighted people don't look
at the keyboard while they type, so why should we? :) I'm only saying
the "sighted people" part because I remember that my keyboarding
teacher said it over and over. :) I admire you for allowing your
daughter the chance to use a quarity keyboard. I didn't get to use
one until resently. Though that was more the school's fault then my
parrents.
lol. :)
Good luck with everthing! :)

On 6/22/12, Kimsan Song <kimsansong@aol.com> wrote:
Oh? My? Gosh? Dave Carlson you crack me up!

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Going 60
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:11 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Late? Not at all. It's still 2012. You have up to a year, month, and
a day to respond. OF course the originator may have moved on to
other topics -- or lists, or countries.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: <ckrugman@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 07:01
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


Hi Richard,
This is a late response. I first started to learn to type on an old
manual typewriter when I was about your daughter's age fifty years
ago. At thattime
my classroom had a Braille book with a prototype of a keyboard showing
keys with Braille labels that was part of the Braille book. I
memorized the keyboard and my average typing speed on a typewriter
is about 60-70 WPM.
If
your daughter is going to be proficient she needs to learn proper
fingering and memorization. This is the same method that
professional sighted stenographers and typists have used for years.
Of course, at that time while use of Braille was encouraged for
totally blind children it was also expected that blind children
learned how to adapt and used standard whenever possible. hope this
helps.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:02 AM
Subject: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I am a typically sighted parent of a blind child (age 9). I
interact with many other parents of blind children and could use
some advice for my child and to share with other parents.

My daughter was effectively born blind having lost all usable
vision by a few months of age. She learned braille from the start
and learned to type on a perkins brailler first, then started to
learn qwerty. She much prefers to use a braille keyboard on her
computer and notetaker (Apex) as well, keeping a qwerety keyboard
plugged in on her computer for occasional use for certain keys and
functions.

My question is this: What is the best way for a blind typist to
learn to use a qwerty keyboard; to do this most efficiently? Is it
using JAWS feedback with the repeating of characters verbally as
typed? What about the braille key caps, or at least braille
stickers for keys? (I have never yet found a USB braille key capped
keyboard, only an old PS-2 style
unit)
I get that touch typing and just pressing down on braille key caps
would be of little use braille-wise, but is is like for sighted
typists, in that it helps get reoriented when your fingers move or
you get distracted, etc., and just to learn qwerty in the
beginning? It would be easy enough to remove the braille and go
with a standard keyboard later on-- conventional keyboards are
cheap.

What we end up with as parents is an argument between (mostly
typically-sighted) parents that braille caps are a great idea vs.
how bad of an idea they are to use. I'm not trying to sit in either
camp-- I'm wondering which seems to help (and curious about any
suggestions of the best ways to learn qwerty typing without
vision).

I don't want to clog up the list too much with this, though it is
JAWS-related, obviously. Please do feel free to reply directly if
you prefer. Your response may be valuable to quite a few parents of
younger, keyboard-learning braille computer users, so thanks for
any experience you may be able to share.

Richard
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
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Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Charles Krugman
 

Hi Richard,
As someone who is blind from birth I think that it is more important that your daughter be encouraged to memorize the keyboard and gain proficiency as a touch typist. I am of the age where I learned to do many things in the sighted world without much accommodation and I believe that we can enable by going too far with unnecessary accommodations. While a prototype of a keyboard might be useful for training purposes it is more important that your daughter be proficient enough to type on any keyboard including those that do not have any Braille markings or other type of identifiers. You are doing her a greater favor to encourage to adapt to the sighted world especially when the accommodations you speak of are probably not necessary as you have indicated that she is a proficient touch typist.
regards.
Chuck

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


To offer a slightly different perspective, I'm typically sighted and I touch type most of the time, but sometimes I have one hand occupied or am trying to do things in a way that I cannot use two hands properly on the keyboard.

Also, some commands with modifier keys, especially multiple modifiers I just cannot manage to type without looking.

My daughter is a super Braille typist and quite good on a qwerty keyboard, but it still seems to me that it would be handy if my daughter were able to "glance" at the keyboard when she wanted to as well.

All the TVI's I know, and numerous blind friends and associates, as well as numerous other parents of blind children seem to think I'm an idiot over this point. My thought is, make a Braille-key-capped keyboard I can get and let my daughter see if it is of any use. If it isn't, I stick in in the pile of other gear that was less useful than I hoped.

There are, in fact, a few actual keyboards like that which have been made, but I have only seen them listed on-line and they were PS-2 style, never USB, and around $200 or $300. There were photos, they clearly existed at some point, but I never managed to confirm any were still available for sale.

I figure one of these days a "proper" Braille USB model will appear somewhere. The Braille stickers ARE still available, but I understand (and believe) the will make a sticky, oozing mess over time. I think one would to as well with dymo labels or stick-on sheets from a Perkins Brailler.

They make many other special sets of actual key caps color coded for sighted users for programs like Photoshop or various Video Editing programs such as Final Cut Pro. It would be simple and reasonably inexpensive to custom mold keys with Braille in quantity.

Sorry of this is too far off topic, but it could directly impact the ability of some users (like my daughter) to utilize JAWS. Also correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like it would be easy to ignore when touch typing, and the two standard keys which are usually marked could still have a unique feel if properly designed, such that one would not need to run fingers across to read those two letters over and over, yet if out of position, a quick swipe over a key, even "hunt and peck" style could let a Braille typist hit one needed key with reduced effort.

I like having this option as a sighted typist. Why should by daughter not have that option as well?

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 25, 2012, at 6:17 PM, Stephanie Switzer <emmanrusty@gmail.com> wrote:

I learned touch typing by using Talking typer. From what I can
remember they introduce you to a few keys at a time until you've
learned the entire keyboard. Braille on a computer keyboard isn't
really necessary because the F and J keys have a line or a dot
(depending on how old the computer is) on them. When I took
Keyboarding in school the teacher made us learn touch typing. (I took
it with sighted kids because I was main streamed.) I tried the braille
overlays when I was about your daughter's age and they kept slipping
off the keyboard (Do those still exist?) Finally one of my Vision
impaired teachers (V. I.s) got me talking typer. Anyway I started
writing this to point out that most sighted people don't look at the
keyboard while they type, so why should we? :) I'm only saying the
"sighted people" part because I remember that my keyboarding teacher
said it over and over. :) I admire you for allowing your daughter the
chance to use a quarity keyboard. I didn't get to use one until
resently. Though that was more the school's fault then my parrents.
lol. :)
Good luck with everthing! :)

On 6/22/12, Kimsan Song <kimsansong@aol.com> wrote:
Oh? My? Gosh? Dave Carlson you crack me up!

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Going 60
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:11 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Late? Not at all. It's still 2012. You have up to a year, month, and a day
to respond. OF course the originator may have moved on to other topics --
or
lists, or countries.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: <ckrugman@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 07:01
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


Hi Richard,
This is a late response. I first started to learn to type on an old manual
typewriter when I was about your daughter's age fifty years ago. At
thattime
my classroom had a Braille book with a prototype of a keyboard showing
keys with Braille labels that was part of the Braille book. I memorized the
keyboard and my average typing speed on a typewriter is about 60-70 WPM. If
your daughter is going to be proficient she needs to learn proper fingering
and memorization. This is the same method that professional sighted
stenographers and typists have used for years. Of course, at that time
while
use of Braille was encouraged for totally blind children it was also
expected that blind children learned how to adapt and used standard
whenever
possible. hope this helps.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:02 AM
Subject: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I am a typically sighted parent of a blind child (age 9). I interact with
many other parents of blind children and could use some advice for my
child
and to share with other parents.

My daughter was effectively born blind having lost all usable vision by a
few months of age. She learned braille from the start and learned to type
on a perkins brailler first, then started to learn qwerty. She much
prefers to use a braille keyboard on her computer and notetaker (Apex) as
well, keeping a qwerety keyboard plugged in on her computer for
occasional
use for certain keys and functions.

My question is this: What is the best way for a blind typist to learn to
use a qwerty keyboard; to do this most efficiently? Is it using JAWS
feedback with the repeating of characters verbally as typed? What about
the braille key caps, or at least braille stickers for keys? (I have
never
yet found a USB braille key capped keyboard, only an old PS-2 style unit)
I get that touch typing and just pressing down on braille key caps would
be of little use braille-wise, but is is like for sighted typists, in
that
it helps get reoriented when your fingers move or you get distracted,
etc., and just to learn qwerty in the beginning? It would be easy enough
to remove the braille and go with a standard keyboard later on--
conventional keyboards are cheap.

What we end up with as parents is an argument between (mostly
typically-sighted) parents that braille caps are a great idea vs. how bad
of an idea they are to use. I'm not trying to sit in either camp-- I'm
wondering which seems to help (and curious about any suggestions of the
best ways to learn qwerty typing without vision).

I don't want to clog up the list too much with this, though it is
JAWS-related, obviously. Please do feel free to reply directly if you
prefer. Your response may be valuable to quite a few parents of younger,
keyboard-learning braille computer users, so thanks for any experience
you
may be able to share.

Richard
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
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Gantt charts

Naomi Bolter <Naomi.Bolter@...>
 

Hello everyone,



I'm a project officer and therefore need to be able to come up with
Gantt charts in some way.



I've tried to make one following Microsoft's online steps in excel but
Jaws won't read it obviously and when I asked a sited person, they said
it didn't really look like a Gantt chart even though I'd followed the
steps perfectly.



So my question is; does anyone know of any products that may assist me
in any way? I am a where that I may only be able to create one not read
it but if that's all I can get I'm happy with that. Also any other ideas
on something that may work just as well but not be a Gantt chart would
be much appreciated if anyone has the time.



Many thanks in advance for any information anyone is kind enough to
share.



Regards

Naomi Bolter



ADHC

Project officer

Strategic capability division



Level 10 83 Clarence Street Sydney 2000



P 82954618

E naomi.bolter@facs.nsw.gov.au

F: 82954622



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Re: Jaws and Office 2010 Ribbon Shortcuts

Kimsan <kimsansong@...>
 

Blind Access Training offers a training session on outlook 2010, please give
it a look here if interested:
http://www.blindaccesstraining.com/training_opportunities/Using_Outlook_2010
_with_jaws_or_Window_eyes.php.
p.s now I might get in trouble.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Ali Abdolrahmani
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 5:28 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support mailing list
Subject: Jaws and Office 2010 Ribbon Shortcuts

hi listers

Sorry my last email was sent to the list without content.. i have the
following issues with office 2010 ribbon. any help is highly appreciated.
1. when i turn on virtual ribbons, navigating the menues, jaws doesn't say
the shortcut keys so that i can memorize for later faster menu choosing. is
there a jaws key stroke so that i can use to receive the ribbon item
shortcut?

2. i decided to switch back to normal ribbon instead of virtual ribbon. on
each press of arrow keys to navigate the ribbon jaws says "you are currently
on the ribbon. to navigate the ribbon items press tab and shift tab, etc
...". then after this long descriptive repeatative text it announces the
shortcutkey of that item. i tried a lot to find how i can make jaws not to
say this descriptive long text so that i can easily hear the shortcut as
soon as the item name is told but i couldn't find the setting to do so. any
idea?

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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Richard Holloway
 

I think the point is to allow speed and/or convenience on your primary computer. There are a LOT of unique features on my own computer that I don't have elsewhere. That doesn't mean I cannot work on another computer. I just work best on my own machine.

At home, my daughter prefers a Braille keyboard for most JAWS work, but will jump to her qwerty keyboard for certain functions. At school it is qwerty only as they don't maintain the extra keyboard for her on a PC (mostly she uses a Braille keyboarded notetaker at school).

By your logic, she shouldn't use an improved (for her) Braille keyboard at home since she may not be as fast on other computers because she uses qwerty less at home.

I realize many users on this list may not be mouse users, or may not use them a great deal, but sighted users, especially artists, draftsmen, and such have countless mouses, trackballs, pen and stylus devices, track pads... You name it! Again, these people just know on other machines it may be they have to revert to a basic el-cheapo mouse. Why limit JAWS users options?

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 26, 2012, at 1:07 AM, "Farfar Going 60" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Agree wholeheartedly.

What's the point in labeling the keys? If you should sit down at another
computer, you'd be complete lost without your crutch. Learn the home keys
(A S D F and J k L ;) and the proper fingers to use for moving above and
below.

Practice, practice, practice. Touch typing is easy once you force yourself
to follow the patterns.

Then the spell-checker is your next best friend.


Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "lauren" <childress54@gmail.com>
To: <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 21:41
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I was taught to type like a sighted person would learn. i never used
any special keyboards or anything like that.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Richard Holloway
 

To offer a slightly different perspective, I'm typically sighted and I touch type most of the time, but sometimes I have one hand occupied or am trying to do things in a way that I cannot use two hands properly on the keyboard.

Also, some commands with modifier keys, especially multiple modifiers I just cannot manage to type without looking.

My daughter is a super Braille typist and quite good on a qwerty keyboard, but it still seems to me that it would be handy if my daughter were able to "glance" at the keyboard when she wanted to as well.

All the TVI's I know, and numerous blind friends and associates, as well as numerous other parents of blind children seem to think I'm an idiot over this point. My thought is, make a Braille-key-capped keyboard I can get and let my daughter see if it is of any use. If it isn't, I stick in in the pile of other gear that was less useful than I hoped.

There are, in fact, a few actual keyboards like that which have been made, but I have only seen them listed on-line and they were PS-2 style, never USB, and around $200 or $300. There were photos, they clearly existed at some point, but I never managed to confirm any were still available for sale.

I figure one of these days a "proper" Braille USB model will appear somewhere. The Braille stickers ARE still available, but I understand (and believe) the will make a sticky, oozing mess over time. I think one would to as well with dymo labels or stick-on sheets from a Perkins Brailler.

They make many other special sets of actual key caps color coded for sighted users for programs like Photoshop or various Video Editing programs such as Final Cut Pro. It would be simple and reasonably inexpensive to custom mold keys with Braille in quantity.

Sorry of this is too far off topic, but it could directly impact the ability of some users (like my daughter) to utilize JAWS. Also correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like it would be easy to ignore when touch typing, and the two standard keys which are usually marked could still have a unique feel if properly designed, such that one would not need to run fingers across to read those two letters over and over, yet if out of position, a quick swipe over a key, even "hunt and peck" style could let a Braille typist hit one needed key with reduced effort.

I like having this option as a sighted typist. Why should by daughter not have that option as well?

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 25, 2012, at 6:17 PM, Stephanie Switzer <emmanrusty@gmail.com> wrote:

I learned touch typing by using Talking typer. From what I can
remember they introduce you to a few keys at a time until you've
learned the entire keyboard. Braille on a computer keyboard isn't
really necessary because the F and J keys have a line or a dot
(depending on how old the computer is) on them. When I took
Keyboarding in school the teacher made us learn touch typing. (I took
it with sighted kids because I was main streamed.) I tried the braille
overlays when I was about your daughter's age and they kept slipping
off the keyboard (Do those still exist?) Finally one of my Vision
impaired teachers (V. I.s) got me talking typer. Anyway I started
writing this to point out that most sighted people don't look at the
keyboard while they type, so why should we? :) I'm only saying the
"sighted people" part because I remember that my keyboarding teacher
said it over and over. :) I admire you for allowing your daughter the
chance to use a quarity keyboard. I didn't get to use one until
resently. Though that was more the school's fault then my parrents.
lol. :)
Good luck with everthing! :)

On 6/22/12, Kimsan Song <kimsansong@aol.com> wrote:
Oh? My? Gosh? Dave Carlson you crack me up!

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Going 60
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:11 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Late? Not at all. It's still 2012. You have up to a year, month, and a day
to respond. OF course the originator may have moved on to other topics --
or
lists, or countries.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: <ckrugman@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 07:01
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


Hi Richard,
This is a late response. I first started to learn to type on an old manual
typewriter when I was about your daughter's age fifty years ago. At
thattime
my classroom had a Braille book with a prototype of a keyboard showing
keys with Braille labels that was part of the Braille book. I memorized the
keyboard and my average typing speed on a typewriter is about 60-70 WPM. If
your daughter is going to be proficient she needs to learn proper fingering
and memorization. This is the same method that professional sighted
stenographers and typists have used for years. Of course, at that time
while
use of Braille was encouraged for totally blind children it was also
expected that blind children learned how to adapt and used standard
whenever
possible. hope this helps.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:02 AM
Subject: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I am a typically sighted parent of a blind child (age 9). I interact with
many other parents of blind children and could use some advice for my
child
and to share with other parents.

My daughter was effectively born blind having lost all usable vision by a
few months of age. She learned braille from the start and learned to type
on a perkins brailler first, then started to learn qwerty. She much
prefers to use a braille keyboard on her computer and notetaker (Apex) as
well, keeping a qwerety keyboard plugged in on her computer for
occasional
use for certain keys and functions.

My question is this: What is the best way for a blind typist to learn to
use a qwerty keyboard; to do this most efficiently? Is it using JAWS
feedback with the repeating of characters verbally as typed? What about
the braille key caps, or at least braille stickers for keys? (I have
never
yet found a USB braille key capped keyboard, only an old PS-2 style unit)
I get that touch typing and just pressing down on braille key caps would
be of little use braille-wise, but is is like for sighted typists, in
that
it helps get reoriented when your fingers move or you get distracted,
etc., and just to learn qwerty in the beginning? It would be easy enough
to remove the braille and go with a standard keyboard later on--
conventional keyboards are cheap.

What we end up with as parents is an argument between (mostly
typically-sighted) parents that braille caps are a great idea vs. how bad
of an idea they are to use. I'm not trying to sit in either camp-- I'm
wondering which seems to help (and curious about any suggestions of the
best ways to learn qwerty typing without vision).

I don't want to clog up the list too much with this, though it is
JAWS-related, obviously. Please do feel free to reply directly if you
prefer. Your response may be valuable to quite a few parents of younger,
keyboard-learning braille computer users, so thanks for any experience
you
may be able to share.

Richard
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Jack and Becky <icanjam@...>
 

Ah, I see Dave said the blind man!
Well I was born this way. Blind. have often wondered about the way we different ways we view the world. Those of us born without sight though not necessarily without vision, luckily and those who lost it, later in life. Yes I know that has nothing to do with jaws. Take me out and shoot me. I'd likely thank you for it.
Grin
I learned braille first. Both the writing and reading Thus my preference for it.
It's just a personal thing dude!
Warm Regards Jack Still The Ailurophile.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Date sent: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 13:22:22 -0700
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard
Ted,
Yes, I also recall typing class in middle school, and there was
music played
so that we were forced to type the exercises to the beat, just to
force
faster and faster reactions. Yes, and there were some social
interaction
opportunities, but no dancing was allowed.
My problem with having had sight earlier is that I still crane my
neck to
look at the display, when there is absolutely no reason any more
to do so,
since my sight is totally gone. Old habits die hard. But the
social
interaction skills remain.
some of the girls
Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a
Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:35
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

I've stayed out of this, but couldn't resist any longer.
Blind people have some very distinct advantages. Among many, two
are:
1. No temptation to look at your feet when ballroom dancing; and
2. No temptation to look at the keyboard while typing.
I actually became a much faster typist after I lost my sight. I
learned
(sort of) in high school. The course was offered in the
"business" class,
which was a euphemism for teaching secretaries. It was a great
excuse to
meet girls. I didn't learn much beyond the home row.
In those days, the challenge was to remember to change the ribbon
promptly.
I still remember, in horror, the couple of times that I typed a
college
essay only to be told by my reader that the ribbon had run out
and that all
I had were white pages with indentations. OUCH!
I cannot imagine how easy it would be to learn typing with JAWS
running, or
even with a Braille display. Just memorize the layout and, as
Dave said,
practice, practice, practice.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:19 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard
Cy,
Thanks! And did you notice that even the spell-checker foiled me
in my use
of the word "complete" where it should have been "completely"?
Ah, well,
even if tastefully composed, not carefully composed enough, I
guess.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a
Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@comcast.net
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:11
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Dave,
Excellent advice.
Cy
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Going 60
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 11:07 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard
Agree wholeheartedly.
What's the point in labeling the keys? If you should sit down at
another
computer, you'd be complete lost without your crutch. Learn the
home keys (A
S D F and J k L ;) and the proper fingers to use for moving above
and below.

Practice, practice, practice. Touch typing is easy once you
force yourself
to follow the patterns.
Then the spell-checker is your next best friend.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a
Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

----- Original Message -----
From: "lauren" <childress54@gmail.com
To: <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 21:41
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

I was taught to type like a sighted person would learn. i never
used
any special keyboards or anything like that.
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Chris Smart <csmart8@...>
 

uh, i think you meant 60 words a minute, not 660? *grin*

Has anyone here tried the alternative Dvorak keyboard layout? Apparently you can reach well over 100 words per minute on it, although after typing on a Qwerty for over 20 years, it would certainly take me some time to relearn a new layout.

Chris

At 02:33 PM 6/26/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
There is no excuse for *not* learning touch typing.
The secretaries all have to touch type because they are looking at their
short hand to see what they are supposed to say.
660 words per minute is pretty much the norm for a good typest (I ain't no
where near there - LOLLOLLOL) and you can not reach anything near that speed
by looking at the keyboard. JMO, Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 5:45 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

I guess every school for the blind in the country taught typing, even back
in The Bronze Age. I've heard Ronnie Millsap joke that they only did it so
the house parents wouldn't have to help write letters home, but it turned
out to be one of the best investments of time I ever made--and I did it for
7 of my 12 years, never dreaming what lay down the road.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Stephanie Switzer
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 6:18 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

I learned touch typing by using Talking typer. From what I can remember they
introduce you to a few keys at a time until you've learned the entire
keyboard. Braille on a computer keyboard isn't really necessary because the
F and J keys have a line or a dot (depending on how old the computer is) on
them. When I took Keyboarding in school the teacher made us learn touch
typing. (I took it with sighted kids because I was main
streamed.) I tried the braille overlays when I was about your daughter's age
and they kept slipping off the keyboard (Do those still exist?) Finally one
of my Vision impaired teachers (V. I.s) got me talking typer. Anyway I
started writing this to point out that most sighted people don't look at the
keyboard while they type, so why should we? :) I'm only saying the "sighted
people" part because I remember that my keyboarding teacher said it over and
over. :) I admire you for allowing your daughter the chance to use a quarity
keyboard. I didn't get to use one until resently. Though that was more the
school's fault then my parrents.
lol. :)
Good luck with everthing! :)

On 6/22/12, Kimsan Song <kimsansong@aol.com> wrote:
Oh? My? Gosh? Dave Carlson you crack me up!

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Going 60
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:11 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Late? Not at all. It's still 2012. You have up to a year,
month, and a

day to respond. OF course the originator may have moved on to
other
topics -- or lists, or countries.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a
Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: <ckrugman@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 07:01
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


Hi Richard,
This is a late response. I first started to learn to type on
an old
manual typewriter when I was about your daughter's age fifty years
ago. At thattime
my classroom had a Braille book with a prototype of a keyboard
showing
keys with Braille labels that was part of the Braille book. I
memorized the keyboard and my average typing speed on a
typewriter is
about 60-70 WPM. If your daughter is going to be proficient she
needs
to learn proper fingering and memorization. This is the same
method
that professional sighted stenographers and typists have used for
years. Of course, at that time while use of Braille was
encouraged for

totally blind children it was also expected that blind children
learned how to adapt and used standard whenever possible. hope
this
helps.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:02 AM
Subject: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I am a typically sighted parent of a blind child (age 9). I
interact
with many other parents of blind children and could use some
advice
for my child and to share with other parents.

My daughter was effectively born blind having lost all usable
vision
by a few months of age. She learned braille from the start and
learned to type on a perkins brailler first, then started to
learn
qwerty. She much prefers to use a braille keyboard on her
computer
and notetaker (Apex) as well, keeping a qwerety keyboard
plugged in
on her computer for occasional use for certain keys and functions.

My question is this: What is the best way for a blind typist
to learn

to use a qwerty keyboard; to do this most efficiently? Is it
using
JAWS feedback with the repeating of characters verbally as typed?
What about the braille key caps, or at least braille stickers for
keys? (I have never yet found a USB braille key capped
keyboard, only

an old PS-2 style unit) I get that touch typing and just pressing
down on braille key caps would be of little use braille-wise,
but is
is like for sighted typists, in that it helps get reoriented when
your fingers move or you get distracted, etc., and just to learn
qwerty in the beginning? It would be easy enough to remove the
braille and go with a standard keyboard later on-- conventional
keyboards are cheap.

What we end up with as parents is an argument between (mostly
typically-sighted) parents that braille caps are a great idea
vs. how

bad of an idea they are to use. I'm not trying to sit in either
camp-- I'm wondering which seems to help (and curious about any
suggestions of the best ways to learn qwerty typing without
vision).

I don't want to clog up the list too much with this, though it is
JAWS-related, obviously. Please do feel free to reply directly
if you

prefer. Your response may be valuable to quite a few parents of
younger, keyboard-learning braille computer users, so thanks
for any
experience you may be able to share.

Richard
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Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Angel
 

They were work horses too. I have one, and still use it.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@ky.gov>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 4:35 PM
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


Lord, it sounds like a Hall throwing its band. As you didn't grow up
blind, I may have to explain that one off list. A Hall brailler was one
of the ugliest pieces of equipment you'll ever see, but fairly
functional.
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Cy Selfridge
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 4:26 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard
On those old Underwood typewriters if you slightly pressed the backspace
key while doing the carriage return the thing would make a horrid noise.
(LOLLOLLOL
Also, on those old typewriters one could disable the carriage return
stops and when you slammed the carriage back it would just continue off
the typewriter and onto the floor. (sad face) Cy
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:22 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard
Ted,
Yes, I also recall typing class in middle school, and there was music
played so that we were forced to type the exercises to the beat, just to
force faster and faster reactions. Yes, and there were some social
interaction opportunities, but no dancing was allowed.
My problem with having had sight earlier is that I still crane my neck
to look at the display, when there is absolutely no reason any more to
do so, since my sight is totally gone. Old habits die hard. But the
social interaction skills remain.
some of the girls
Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:35
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard
I've stayed out of this, but couldn't resist any longer.
Blind people have some very distinct advantages. Among many, two are:
1. No temptation to look at your feet when ballroom dancing; and
2. No temptation to look at the keyboard while typing.
I actually became a much faster typist after I lost my sight. I learned
(sort of) in high school. The course was offered in the "business"
class, which was a euphemism for teaching secretaries. It was a great excuse
to meet girls. I didn't learn much beyond the home row.
In those days, the challenge was to remember to change the ribbon
promptly. I still remember, in horror, the couple of times that I typed a college essay only to be told by my reader that the ribbon had run out and that
all I had were white pages with indentations. OUCH!
I cannot imagine how easy it would be to learn typing with JAWS running,
or even with a Braille display. Just memorize the layout and, as Dave
said, practice, practice, practice.
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:19 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard
Cy,
Thanks! And did you notice that even the spell-checker foiled me in my
use
of the word "complete" where it should have been "completely"? Ah, well,
even if tastefully composed, not carefully composed enough, I guess.
Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@comcast.net>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:11
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard
Dave,
Excellent advice.
Cy
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Going 60
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 11:07 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard
Agree wholeheartedly.
What's the point in labeling the keys? If you should sit down at another
computer, you'd be complete lost without your crutch. Learn the home
keys (A
S D F and J k L ;) and the proper fingers to use for moving above and
below.
Practice, practice, practice. Touch typing is easy once you force
yourself
to follow the patterns.
Then the spell-checker is your next best friend.
Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit
----- Original Message -----
From: "lauren" <childress54@gmail.com>
To: <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 21:41
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard
I was taught to type like a sighted person would learn. i never used
any special keyboards or anything like that.
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This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named recipients above and may contain information
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Re: Jaws and ebay

Adrian Spratt
 

Howard,

I think you'll find the combo box retains your choice if you press alt-up
arrow when it's highlighted. When I mentioned earlier to press the PC cursor
at that point, I was saying what you do here about getting out of forms
mode. These two steps have so far worked without fail for me.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Howard Traxler
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 4:14 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Jaws and ebay

Using XP Sp3 and JFW11,
When on a form on a web page:

If I need to find the combo boxes, I type letter c--a jaws jump to command.

Once on a combo box, I press enter for forms mode then alt plus down arrow
to pull down the ccombo box list. Arrow up or down to find the appropriate
choice. Then tab away from the combo box and on to the next control in the
form.

Sometimes after making the appropriate choice, I press numpad plus to turn
off forms mode; then I can arrow around the form to see what else will be
required. However, sometimes when I turn off forms mode I find that my
combo box did not retain its choice.

I guess everybody finds a way that works for them.

Howard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Spratt" <Adrian@AdrianSpratt.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 11:43 AM
Subject: RE: Jaws and ebay


One more suggestion for combo boxes that is saving me torment on another
website. Instead of pressing enter to confirm the selection, press alt+up
arrow, then the PC cursor key. Sometimes pressing enter brings on
undesired
results.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Crystal French
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:14 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Jaws and ebay

Thank you, Juan, this worked like a charm.

I think I get so locked into doing things the same way that I can get
myself
flummoxed.

I am still using IE 8 as I didn't think I could use IE 9 with my computer.

Crystal

----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Pablo" <jpculasso@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: Jaws and ebay


Cristal:

To avoid the problem, try this way:
1. Press the C key to jump between the combo boxes.
2. When You reach the combo that you want interact, press alt plus down
arrow to open it.
3. With the down or up arrow, only, do not use insert, navigate to the
options that you need.
4. Press Enter to select the option.
I made some tests with Internet explorer 9 and firefox 13 into ebay page
and nothin that you mentioned happened here.
I currently use a win7 sp1 with j13.
Best,
Juan Pablo.

-----Original Message-----
From: Crystal French
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:39 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Jaws and ebay

Hi,
i am using the latest version of Jaws 13 with Windows SP sp 3.

I was looking at an item on ebay.

There is a combo box to select a size option.

Usually I press enter on the box and then an insert + down arrow to show
the
selection, then press enter to make the choice.

On ebay I can not seem to get the box to behave correctly.

Jaws freezes, or simply7 will not read the slected item.

I've tried routing the jaws cursor, and the virtual cursor, and such, but
no
luck.

Does anyone know of a way to get around this?

Thanks,
Crystal


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Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Chris Smart <csmart8@...>
 

Not to mention I've never heard of anybody achieving 70 or 80 words per minute on a perkins-style keyboard, whereas that is more than possible on a standard keyboard.

At 10:09 AM 6/26/2012, you wrote:
Jack,

Having dexterity on a Braille keyboard is excellent, but when you're in the
outside world, you would have to carry your keyboard with you in case you
ever need to work on a machine away from your desk. Having dexterity on the
predominant input device seems to me to be a key survival skill in the
mainstream world.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack and Becky" <icanjam@jackzee.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 06:51
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I can type well enough! Should from all the typing lessons I
took in school.
Dad had a fuul glass. He was GLAD!
Got to where I wanted pop dear old dad upside the head with his
full glass.
But I have and always have done much better with the six dot
braille keyboard. So why type at all? Wish jaws had a braille
keyboard mode. I've been pushing hard for this but no know else
seems interested.
Alas and great sorrow!
Jack


----- Original Message -----
From: lauren <childress54@gmail.com
To: jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Date sent: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 00:41:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard
I was taught to type like a sighted person would learn. i never
used
any special keyboards or anything like that.
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Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Chris Smart <csmart8@...>
 

Carpel tunnel syndrome results if you don't take breaks, don't have good posture with your feet on something solid, don't stretch now and then, etc.
and, get an ergonomic keyboard.

At 09:51 AM 6/26/2012, you wrote:
Yes and then there's carpal tunnel syndrome which you might get from forming your fingers into all those unnatural shapes for years and years. Your fingers weren't MEANT to be scrunched UP like that.
But that's just my opinion. I'm a die hard braille keyboard user. Always will be.
No No
Don't try and change my mind.
JackJack



----- Original Message -----
From: "Farfar Going 60" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Date sent: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 22:07:23 -0700
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard
Agree wholeheartedly.
What's the point in labeling the keys? If you should sit down at
another
computer, you'd be complete lost without your crutch. Learn the
home keys
(A S D F and J k L ;) and the proper fingers to use for moving
above and
below.
Practice, practice, practice. Touch typing is easy once you
force yourself
to follow the patterns.
Then the spell-checker is your next best friend.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a
Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

----- Original Message -----
From: "lauren" <childress54@gmail.com
To: <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 21:41
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

I was taught to type like a sighted person would learn. i never
used
any special keyboards or anything like that.
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Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Dave Durber
 

Cy:

660 words per minute! At that rate, anyone's finger joints would definitely suffer from chronic carpo tunnel syndrome. Now 60 to 70 words might be nearer the mark, hehehehehehehe!

Dave Durber

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@comcast.net>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:33 PM
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


Hi,
There is no excuse for *not* learning touch typing.
The secretaries all have to touch type because they are looking at their
short hand to see what they are supposed to say.
660 words per minute is pretty much the norm for a good typest (I ain't no
where near there - LOLLOLLOL) and you can not reach anything near that speed
by looking at the keyboard. JMO, Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 5:45 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

I guess every school for the blind in the country taught typing, even back
in The Bronze Age. I've heard Ronnie Millsap joke that they only did it so
the house parents wouldn't have to help write letters home, but it turned
out to be one of the best investments of time I ever made--and I did it for
7 of my 12 years, never dreaming what lay down the road.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Stephanie Switzer
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 6:18 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

I learned touch typing by using Talking typer. From what I can remember they
introduce you to a few keys at a time until you've learned the entire
keyboard. Braille on a computer keyboard isn't really necessary because the
F and J keys have a line or a dot (depending on how old the computer is) on
them. When I took Keyboarding in school the teacher made us learn touch
typing. (I took it with sighted kids because I was main
streamed.) I tried the braille overlays when I was about your daughter's age
and they kept slipping off the keyboard (Do those still exist?) Finally one
of my Vision impaired teachers (V. I.s) got me talking typer. Anyway I
started writing this to point out that most sighted people don't look at the
keyboard while they type, so why should we? :) I'm only saying the "sighted
people" part because I remember that my keyboarding teacher said it over and
over. :) I admire you for allowing your daughter the chance to use a quarity
keyboard. I didn't get to use one until resently. Though that was more the
school's fault then my parrents.
lol. :)
Good luck with everthing! :)

On 6/22/12, Kimsan Song <kimsansong@aol.com> wrote:
Oh? My? Gosh? Dave Carlson you crack me up!

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Going 60
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:11 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Late? Not at all. It's still 2012. You have up to a year, month, and a
day to respond. OF course the originator may have moved on to other
topics -- or lists, or countries.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: <ckrugman@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 07:01
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


Hi Richard,
This is a late response. I first started to learn to type on an old
manual typewriter when I was about your daughter's age fifty years
ago. At thattime
my classroom had a Braille book with a prototype of a keyboard
showing
keys with Braille labels that was part of the Braille book. I
memorized the keyboard and my average typing speed on a typewriter is
about 60-70 WPM. If your daughter is going to be proficient she needs
to learn proper fingering and memorization. This is the same method
that professional sighted stenographers and typists have used for
years. Of course, at that time while use of Braille was encouraged for
totally blind children it was also expected that blind children
learned how to adapt and used standard whenever possible. hope this
helps.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:02 AM
Subject: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I am a typically sighted parent of a blind child (age 9). I interact
with many other parents of blind children and could use some advice
for my child and to share with other parents.

My daughter was effectively born blind having lost all usable vision
by a few months of age. She learned braille from the start and
learned to type on a perkins brailler first, then started to learn
qwerty. She much prefers to use a braille keyboard on her computer
and notetaker (Apex) as well, keeping a qwerety keyboard plugged in
on her computer for occasional use for certain keys and functions.

My question is this: What is the best way for a blind typist to learn
to use a qwerty keyboard; to do this most efficiently? Is it using
JAWS feedback with the repeating of characters verbally as typed?
What about the braille key caps, or at least braille stickers for
keys? (I have never yet found a USB braille key capped keyboard, only
an old PS-2 style unit) I get that touch typing and just pressing
down on braille key caps would be of little use braille-wise, but is
is like for sighted typists, in that it helps get reoriented when
your fingers move or you get distracted, etc., and just to learn
qwerty in the beginning? It would be easy enough to remove the
braille and go with a standard keyboard later on-- conventional
keyboards are cheap.

What we end up with as parents is an argument between (mostly
typically-sighted) parents that braille caps are a great idea vs. how
bad of an idea they are to use. I'm not trying to sit in either
camp-- I'm wondering which seems to help (and curious about any
suggestions of the best ways to learn qwerty typing without vision).

I don't want to clog up the list too much with this, though it is
JAWS-related, obviously. Please do feel free to reply directly if you
prefer. Your response may be valuable to quite a few parents of
younger, keyboard-learning braille computer users, so thanks for any
experience you may be able to share.

Richard
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Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
 

Lord, it sounds like a Hall throwing its band. As you didn't grow up
blind, I may have to explain that one off list. A Hall brailler was one
of the ugliest pieces of equipment you'll ever see, but fairly
functional.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Cy Selfridge
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 4:26 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

On those old Underwood typewriters if you slightly pressed the backspace
key while doing the carriage return the thing would make a horrid noise.
(LOLLOLLOL
Also, on those old typewriters one could disable the carriage return
stops and when you slammed the carriage back it would just continue off
the typewriter and onto the floor. (sad face) Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:22 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Ted,

Yes, I also recall typing class in middle school, and there was music
played so that we were forced to type the exercises to the beat, just to
force faster and faster reactions. Yes, and there were some social
interaction opportunities, but no dancing was allowed.

My problem with having had sight earlier is that I still crane my neck
to look at the display, when there is absolutely no reason any more to
do so, since my sight is totally gone. Old habits die hard. But the
social interaction skills remain.
some of the girls

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:35
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I've stayed out of this, but couldn't resist any longer.
Blind people have some very distinct advantages. Among many, two are:
1. No temptation to look at your feet when ballroom dancing; and
2. No temptation to look at the keyboard while typing.
I actually became a much faster typist after I lost my sight. I learned

(sort of) in high school. The course was offered in the "business"
class,
which was a euphemism for teaching secretaries. It was a great excuse
to
meet girls. I didn't learn much beyond the home row.
In those days, the challenge was to remember to change the ribbon
promptly.
I still remember, in horror, the couple of times that I typed a college
essay only to be told by my reader that the ribbon had run out and that
all
I had were white pages with indentations. OUCH!
I cannot imagine how easy it would be to learn typing with JAWS running,
or
even with a Braille display. Just memorize the layout and, as Dave
said,
practice, practice, practice.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:19 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Cy,

Thanks! And did you notice that even the spell-checker foiled me in my
use
of the word "complete" where it should have been "completely"? Ah, well,
even if tastefully composed, not carefully composed enough, I guess.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@comcast.net>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:11
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


Dave,
Excellent advice.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Going 60
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 11:07 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Agree wholeheartedly.

What's the point in labeling the keys? If you should sit down at another
computer, you'd be complete lost without your crutch. Learn the home
keys (A
S D F and J k L ;) and the proper fingers to use for moving above and
below.

Practice, practice, practice. Touch typing is easy once you force
yourself
to follow the patterns.

Then the spell-checker is your next best friend.


Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "lauren" <childress54@gmail.com>
To: <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 21:41
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I was taught to type like a sighted person would learn. i never used
any special keyboards or anything like that.

_______________________________________________
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RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE
IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
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Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
 

Ah yes, rhythm work. One of our favorites was a big band remake of "In
the Mood." I remember a good country 78 by Bryant and West as well--two
of the hottest cats on the West Coast, for those who don't remember. I
guess I've disturbed enough dust for now.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 4:22 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Ted,

Yes, I also recall typing class in middle school, and there was music
played so that we were forced to type the exercises to the beat, just to
force faster and faster reactions. Yes, and there were some social
interaction opportunities, but no dancing was allowed.

My problem with having had sight earlier is that I still crane my neck
to look at the display, when there is absolutely no reason any more to
do so, since my sight is totally gone. Old habits die hard. But the
social interaction skills remain.
some of the girls

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:35
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I've stayed out of this, but couldn't resist any longer.
Blind people have some very distinct advantages. Among many, two are:
1. No temptation to look at your feet when ballroom dancing; and
2. No temptation to look at the keyboard while typing.
I actually became a much faster typist after I lost my sight. I learned

(sort of) in high school. The course was offered in the "business"
class,
which was a euphemism for teaching secretaries. It was a great excuse
to
meet girls. I didn't learn much beyond the home row.
In those days, the challenge was to remember to change the ribbon
promptly.
I still remember, in horror, the couple of times that I typed a college
essay only to be told by my reader that the ribbon had run out and that
all
I had were white pages with indentations. OUCH!
I cannot imagine how easy it would be to learn typing with JAWS running,
or
even with a Braille display. Just memorize the layout and, as Dave
said,
practice, practice, practice.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:19 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Cy,

Thanks! And did you notice that even the spell-checker foiled me in my
use
of the word "complete" where it should have been "completely"? Ah, well,
even if tastefully composed, not carefully composed enough, I guess.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@comcast.net>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:11
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


Dave,
Excellent advice.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Going 60
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 11:07 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Agree wholeheartedly.

What's the point in labeling the keys? If you should sit down at another
computer, you'd be complete lost without your crutch. Learn the home
keys (A
S D F and J k L ;) and the proper fingers to use for moving above and
below.

Practice, practice, practice. Touch typing is easy once you force
yourself
to follow the patterns.

Then the spell-checker is your next best friend.


Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "lauren" <childress54@gmail.com>
To: <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 21:41
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I was taught to type like a sighted person would learn. i never used
any special keyboards or anything like that.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE
IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this
E-mail message.
Thank you.

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Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Cy Selfridge
 

On those old Underwood typewriters if you slightly pressed the backspace key
while doing the carriage return the thing would make a horrid noise.
(LOLLOLLOL
Also, on those old typewriters one could disable the carriage return stops
and when you slammed the carriage back it would just continue off the
typewriter and onto the floor. (sad face)
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:22 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Ted,

Yes, I also recall typing class in middle school, and there was music played
so that we were forced to type the exercises to the beat, just to force
faster and faster reactions. Yes, and there were some social interaction
opportunities, but no dancing was allowed.

My problem with having had sight earlier is that I still crane my neck to
look at the display, when there is absolutely no reason any more to do so,
since my sight is totally gone. Old habits die hard. But the social
interaction skills remain.
some of the girls

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:35
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I've stayed out of this, but couldn't resist any longer.
Blind people have some very distinct advantages. Among many, two are:
1. No temptation to look at your feet when ballroom dancing; and
2. No temptation to look at the keyboard while typing.
I actually became a much faster typist after I lost my sight. I learned
(sort of) in high school. The course was offered in the "business" class,
which was a euphemism for teaching secretaries. It was a great excuse to
meet girls. I didn't learn much beyond the home row.
In those days, the challenge was to remember to change the ribbon promptly.
I still remember, in horror, the couple of times that I typed a college
essay only to be told by my reader that the ribbon had run out and that all
I had were white pages with indentations. OUCH!
I cannot imagine how easy it would be to learn typing with JAWS running, or
even with a Braille display. Just memorize the layout and, as Dave said,
practice, practice, practice.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:19 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Cy,

Thanks! And did you notice that even the spell-checker foiled me in my use
of the word "complete" where it should have been "completely"? Ah, well,
even if tastefully composed, not carefully composed enough, I guess.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@comcast.net>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:11
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


Dave,
Excellent advice.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Going 60
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 11:07 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Agree wholeheartedly.

What's the point in labeling the keys? If you should sit down at another
computer, you'd be complete lost without your crutch. Learn the home keys (A
S D F and J k L ;) and the proper fingers to use for moving above and below.

Practice, practice, practice. Touch typing is easy once you force yourself
to follow the patterns.

Then the spell-checker is your next best friend.


Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "lauren" <childress54@gmail.com>
To: <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 21:41
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I was taught to type like a sighted person would learn. i never used
any special keyboards or anything like that.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE
IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete this
E-mail message.
Thank you.

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Re: Jaws and ebay

Dave...
 

Howard,

Good suggestion there about forms mode. Also note that on some web pages,
the combo box/list is interactive, so that arrowing up/down actually forces
the screen to refresh, and can throw your cursor off in the weeds. Something
to keep in mind.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

----- Original Message -----
From: "Howard Traxler" <howard@traxlerenterprises.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 13:14
Subject: Re: Jaws and ebay


Using XP Sp3 and JFW11,
When on a form on a web page:

If I need to find the combo boxes, I type letter c--a jaws jump to command.

Once on a combo box, I press enter for forms mode then alt plus down arrow
to pull down the ccombo box list. Arrow up or down to find the appropriate
choice. Then tab away from the combo box and on to the next control in the
form.

Sometimes after making the appropriate choice, I press numpad plus to turn
off forms mode; then I can arrow around the form to see what else will be
required. However, sometimes when I turn off forms mode I find that my
combo box did not retain its choice.

I guess everybody finds a way that works for them.

Howard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Spratt" <Adrian@AdrianSpratt.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 11:43 AM
Subject: RE: Jaws and ebay


One more suggestion for combo boxes that is saving me torment on another
website. Instead of pressing enter to confirm the selection, press alt+up
arrow, then the PC cursor key. Sometimes pressing enter brings on
undesired
results.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Crystal French
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:14 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Jaws and ebay

Thank you, Juan, this worked like a charm.

I think I get so locked into doing things the same way that I can get
myself
flummoxed.

I am still using IE 8 as I didn't think I could use IE 9 with my computer.

Crystal

----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Pablo" <jpculasso@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: Jaws and ebay


Cristal:

To avoid the problem, try this way:
1. Press the C key to jump between the combo boxes.
2. When You reach the combo that you want interact, press alt plus down
arrow to open it.
3. With the down or up arrow, only, do not use insert, navigate to the
options that you need.
4. Press Enter to select the option.
I made some tests with Internet explorer 9 and firefox 13 into ebay page
and nothin that you mentioned happened here.
I currently use a win7 sp1 with j13.
Best,
Juan Pablo.

-----Original Message-----
From: Crystal French
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:39 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Jaws and ebay

Hi,
i am using the latest version of Jaws 13 with Windows SP sp 3.

I was looking at an item on ebay.

There is a combo box to select a size option.

Usually I press enter on the box and then an insert + down arrow to show
the
selection, then press enter to make the choice.

On ebay I can not seem to get the box to behave correctly.

Jaws freezes, or simply7 will not read the slected item.

I've tried routing the jaws cursor, and the virtual cursor, and such, but
no
luck.

Does anyone know of a way to get around this?

Thanks,
Crystal


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Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Dave...
 

Ted,

Yes, I also recall typing class in middle school, and there was music played
so that we were forced to type the exercises to the beat, just to force
faster and faster reactions. Yes, and there were some social interaction
opportunities, but no dancing was allowed.

My problem with having had sight earlier is that I still crane my neck to
look at the display, when there is absolutely no reason any more to do so,
since my sight is totally gone. Old habits die hard. But the social
interaction skills remain.
some of the girls

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:35
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I've stayed out of this, but couldn't resist any longer.
Blind people have some very distinct advantages. Among many, two are:
1. No temptation to look at your feet when ballroom dancing; and
2. No temptation to look at the keyboard while typing.
I actually became a much faster typist after I lost my sight. I learned
(sort of) in high school. The course was offered in the "business" class,
which was a euphemism for teaching secretaries. It was a great excuse to
meet girls. I didn't learn much beyond the home row.
In those days, the challenge was to remember to change the ribbon promptly.
I still remember, in horror, the couple of times that I typed a college
essay only to be told by my reader that the ribbon had run out and that all
I had were white pages with indentations. OUCH!
I cannot imagine how easy it would be to learn typing with JAWS running, or
even with a Braille display. Just memorize the layout and, as Dave said,
practice, practice, practice.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:19 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Cy,

Thanks! And did you notice that even the spell-checker foiled me in my use
of the word "complete" where it should have been "completely"? Ah, well,
even if tastefully composed, not carefully composed enough, I guess.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@comcast.net>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:11
Subject: RE: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


Dave,
Excellent advice.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Going 60
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 11:07 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard

Agree wholeheartedly.

What's the point in labeling the keys? If you should sit down at another
computer, you'd be complete lost without your crutch. Learn the home keys (A
S D F and J k L ;) and the proper fingers to use for moving above and below.

Practice, practice, practice. Touch typing is easy once you force yourself
to follow the patterns.

Then the spell-checker is your next best friend.


Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "lauren" <childress54@gmail.com>
To: <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 21:41
Subject: Re: Learning Jaws and the Keyboard


I was taught to type like a sighted person would learn. i never used
any special keyboards or anything like that.

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