Date   

moderated Re: perplexing punctuation problem

Mike B.
 

Hi Adrian,
 
Open Settings Center default all applications.
 
Down arrow to, Punctuation 14 of 27, right arrow to open.
 
Down arrow to, customize punctuation..., and press the spacebar to open.  Heare you can adjust the levels of 194 different punctuations.
Note:  Do not press enter!  If you press enter the Settings Center will close, so use the spacebar.
 
 
Stay safe & take care.  Mike.
Just once, I want a username and password prompt to say:  "Close Enough!"
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: perplexing punctuation problem

Basic question: What is the punctuation list?


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Orlando Enrique Fiol via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:35 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: perplexing punctuation problem

At 02:29 PM 12/22/2021, Ben Moxey wrote:
 >I've got 194, too. Have you tried using the "Restore Defaults" button in the  >Customise Punctuation dialog box?



I have indeed tried restoring defaults, to no avail. The plot thickens, though. Even when my punctuation list numbers only 72 entries, the settings for the missing entries are still applied; I know this because, depending on the speech synthesizer, the 194 punctuation list entries sometimes load. Go figure!
Orlando Enrique Fiol
Charlotte, North Carolina
Professional Pianist/Keyboardist, Percussionist and Pedagogue Ph.D. in Music theory University of Pennsylvania: November, 2018
Home: (980) 585-1516
Mobile: (267) 971-7090










moderated Re: email client question

 

Just so it's on record, I have opened an issue with Groups.io.

I actually believe that what's being seen with those bounce messages is the result of a specific setting the group owner has on where if you try to send any message after you've subscribed and replied to the confirm message, but where they have not yet approved your membership, results in a bounce.  And that bounce message makes it appear as though the groups.io address you're sending to does not exist, but it does.

I did some testing earlier with an outlook address with a testing group and got bounce messages back after having confirmed my subscription up until I approved that outlook address used for group membership.  Most groups are not set up to require approval of group membership (though they can be); you most often have automatic membership acceptance upon subscribing and your first message is held until the group owner or moderator approves it.

If this turns out to be the case for the groups issuing those bounce messages, I'll let everyone know once I have an answer back from Groups.io support.  I suspect it will be, and it has nothing to do with whether outlook.com is the domain from which the requests come or not.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

       ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019


moderated Re: Buying a laptop

Tom Behler
 

Of course, you're correct, Bill.

Had a brain lapse, and simply didn't think of it that way.

So, how do you typically invoke the normal Jaws reading commands like insert 2 and insert 3 on a tablet or laptop that does not have a numpad?

Tom Behler

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 3:10 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Hi, Tom. No, this is not correct. For example, if you press INSERT plus the number two on the numbers row, it changes what JAWS echos, between Characters, Words, characters and words, and nothing. If you press INSERT plus the number two on the NumPad, it will begin reading in Say All mode. So, the INSERT key plus the numbers on the numbers row don't invoke the same commands as the numbers on the NumPad.

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 11:55 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

All:

I may have more questions about this as I proceed further, but if you purchase a windows tablet or laptop without a numpad, will there be any problems invoking certain Jaws reading commands, like Insert 2, Insert 3, etc.?

I would assume you could use the numbers on the main number row, and the insert key on the normal keyboard.

Is this correct?

Thank you!

Dr. Tom Behler From Michigan



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bonnie Vegiard
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 2:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on buying the laptop. I am so used to the desktop layout that I have relied on the NUM pad, and I found it difficult to switch over. Also, I have some vision, so a larger screen is helpful. The guy who is going to make a recommendation did come through, but he recommended one with a touchscreen, which I think is only going to complicate things for me. Still trying to decide whether to get a bigger laptop, or just get a num pad to go with the one I’ve got. But I appreciate all your thoughts.

Bonnie Vegiard
On Dec 23, 2021, at 12:50 PM, Zachary Morris <morriszachary99@...> wrote:

I think I remember that issue on my old dell laptop. Although I’m not quite sure if it was because of realtek drivers or some other reason; when I switched to the microsoft audio driver, I don’t quite remember if that fixed it; I remember doing way too much configuration for my own good when I started using that laptop.
Regards,
Zach
Sent from my MacBook Air (Retina, 13-inch, 2020)

On Dec 23, 2021, at 11:43, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:

Lori is correct. If a user prefers a number pad as part of the keyboard and if having one makes things easier then the user should have it. While I’m personally fine with using my preferred external keyboard with my laptop this definitely reduces the portability if you frequently travel.
One consideration that hasn’t been mentioned is the problematic audio latency issues when using screen readers with some (but definitely not all) Realtek drivers. The Microsoft store had a sale with an Asus Vivobook laptop which I bought for my sighted wife. Its performance was impressive but I noticed a delay between pressing a key and hearing the screen reader speak the results of that key press. This was true for both typing characters as well as navigating with arrow keys. Disabling audio enhancements definitely helped but there was still a slight delay which I was unable to fix no matter what I tried which included installing the latest Realtek drivers and running the SFC and Dism commands. My sixth generation I7 Dell Lattitude, which also uses Realtek drivers, provides completely instant response and if I can’t have that same level of responsiveness with an 11th-generation I5 I don’t want the laptop. I’ve alerted Asus about this but wanted to throw that out there as a possible warning. Based on feedback from these groups I’m assuming the problem isn’t all that common but it happens enough that I think some organized advocacy with Realtek is definitely in order.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org



From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lori Lynn
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:12 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I also went through the process of buying a new laptop this summer. It was more complicated by the fact that I live in a very small town and the nearest place to actually look at more than 2 or 3 is about 50 miles away. I also strongly wanted a numpad as well. Part of it is I’m older and wanted what I’m use to having. Part of it is also because I felt that having a separate keyboard was more cumbersome than I wanted to deal with. I ended up getting a 17 inch Del through Amazon. I found that if it has a numpad then it will be mentioned in the description. Remember that you are the one who will be using it, so get what you want and can afford.

Lori Lynn


From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Abraham
Sweiss
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 10:53 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I would buy an external keyboard

Thanks,abraham


On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:54 AM, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:


If having a numeric keypad on your laptop’s keyboard is important to you I’d recommend two things. First, look at the description of the laptop on the page since it might mention that a number pad is included. If it doesn’t I would send a link to a sighted person to ask if they see a number pad on the keyboard.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org



From: main@jfw.groups.io<main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Phillip
Gross
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:07 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I, like others, don't use the numpad. In fact, at home where I use a bluetooth keyboard, I still use laptop layout, but that's just my preference.

Anyway, you have two options. If you never travel with your laptop, then I would go get a keyboard that you like. Try several and see which one fits you best. If you do travel with your laptop, then get an external numpad. That will fit in a laptop bag and shouldn't take up much room.





moderated Re: perplexing punctuation problem

Bill White
 

The punctuation list is a list of punctuation symbols which you can modify
individually to determine if, and how they are spoken with JAWS.

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Adrian
Spratt
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:08 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: perplexing punctuation problem

Basic question: What is the punctuation list?


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Orlando Enrique
Fiol via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:35 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: perplexing punctuation problem

At 02:29 PM 12/22/2021, Ben Moxey wrote:
>I've got 194, too. Have you tried using the "Restore Defaults" button in
the >Customise Punctuation dialog box?



I have indeed tried restoring defaults, to no avail. The plot thickens,
though. Even when my punctuation list numbers only 72 entries, the settings
for the missing entries are still applied; I know this because, depending on
the speech synthesizer, the 194 punctuation list entries sometimes load. Go
figure!
Orlando Enrique Fiol
Charlotte, North Carolina
Professional Pianist/Keyboardist, Percussionist and Pedagogue Ph.D. in Music
theory University of Pennsylvania: November, 2018
Home: (980) 585-1516
Mobile: (267) 971-7090


moderated Re: Buying a laptop

Bill White
 

Hi, Tom. No, this is not correct. For example, if you press INSERT plus the number two on the numbers row, it changes what JAWS echos, between Characters, Words, characters and words, and nothing. If you press INSERT plus the number two on the NumPad, it will begin reading in Say All mode. So, the INSERT key plus the numbers on the numbers row don't invoke the same commands as the numbers on the NumPad.

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 11:55 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

All:

I may have more questions about this as I proceed further, but if you purchase a windows tablet or laptop without a numpad, will there be any problems invoking certain Jaws reading commands, like Insert 2, Insert 3, etc.?

I would assume you could use the numbers on the main number row, and the insert key on the normal keyboard.

Is this correct?

Thank you!

Dr. Tom Behler From Michigan



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bonnie Vegiard
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 2:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on buying the laptop. I am so used to the desktop layout that I have relied on the NUM pad, and I found it difficult to switch over. Also, I have some vision, so a larger screen is helpful. The guy who is going to make a recommendation did come through, but he recommended one with a touchscreen, which I think is only going to complicate things for me. Still trying to decide whether to get a bigger laptop, or just get a num pad to go with the one I’ve got. But I appreciate all your thoughts.

Bonnie Vegiard
On Dec 23, 2021, at 12:50 PM, Zachary Morris <morriszachary99@...> wrote:

I think I remember that issue on my old dell laptop. Although I’m not quite sure if it was because of realtek drivers or some other reason; when I switched to the microsoft audio driver, I don’t quite remember if that fixed it; I remember doing way too much configuration for my own good when I started using that laptop.
Regards,
Zach
Sent from my MacBook Air (Retina, 13-inch, 2020)

On Dec 23, 2021, at 11:43, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:

Lori is correct. If a user prefers a number pad as part of the keyboard and if having one makes things easier then the user should have it. While I’m personally fine with using my preferred external keyboard with my laptop this definitely reduces the portability if you frequently travel.
One consideration that hasn’t been mentioned is the problematic audio latency issues when using screen readers with some (but definitely not all) Realtek drivers. The Microsoft store had a sale with an Asus Vivobook laptop which I bought for my sighted wife. Its performance was impressive but I noticed a delay between pressing a key and hearing the screen reader speak the results of that key press. This was true for both typing characters as well as navigating with arrow keys. Disabling audio enhancements definitely helped but there was still a slight delay which I was unable to fix no matter what I tried which included installing the latest Realtek drivers and running the SFC and Dism commands. My sixth generation I7 Dell Lattitude, which also uses Realtek drivers, provides completely instant response and if I can’t have that same level of responsiveness with an 11th-generation I5 I don’t want the laptop. I’ve alerted Asus about this but wanted to throw that out there as a possible warning. Based on feedback from these groups I’m assuming the problem isn’t all that common but it happens enough that I think some organized advocacy with Realtek is definitely in order.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org



From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lori Lynn
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:12 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I also went through the process of buying a new laptop this summer. It was more complicated by the fact that I live in a very small town and the nearest place to actually look at more than 2 or 3 is about 50 miles away. I also strongly wanted a numpad as well. Part of it is I’m older and wanted what I’m use to having. Part of it is also because I felt that having a separate keyboard was more cumbersome than I wanted to deal with. I ended up getting a 17 inch Del through Amazon. I found that if it has a numpad then it will be mentioned in the description. Remember that you are the one who will be using it, so get what you want and can afford.

Lori Lynn


From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Abraham
Sweiss
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 10:53 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I would buy an external keyboard

Thanks,abraham


On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:54 AM, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:


If having a numeric keypad on your laptop’s keyboard is important to you I’d recommend two things. First, look at the description of the laptop on the page since it might mention that a number pad is included. If it doesn’t I would send a link to a sighted person to ask if they see a number pad on the keyboard.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org



From: main@jfw.groups.io<main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Phillip
Gross
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:07 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I, like others, don't use the numpad. In fact, at home where I use a bluetooth keyboard, I still use laptop layout, but that's just my preference.

Anyway, you have two options. If you never travel with your laptop, then I would go get a keyboard that you like. Try several and see which one fits you best. If you do travel with your laptop, then get an external numpad. That will fit in a laptop bag and shouldn't take up much room.





moderated Re: perplexing punctuation problem

Adrian Spratt
 

Basic question: What is the punctuation list?

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Orlando Enrique Fiol via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:35 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: perplexing punctuation problem

At 02:29 PM 12/22/2021, Ben Moxey wrote:
>I've got 194, too. Have you tried using the "Restore Defaults" button in the >Customise Punctuation dialog box?



I have indeed tried restoring defaults, to no avail. The plot thickens, though. Even when my punctuation list numbers only 72 entries, the settings for the missing entries are still applied; I know this because, depending on the speech synthesizer, the 194 punctuation list entries sometimes load. Go figure!
Orlando Enrique Fiol
Charlotte, North Carolina
Professional Pianist/Keyboardist, Percussionist and Pedagogue Ph.D. in Music theory University of Pennsylvania: November, 2018
Home: (980) 585-1516
Mobile: (267) 971-7090


moderated Re: new jaws program

G. Gray
 

Thanks much!!!!!!!!!!!


Listening for the Shout!,
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18



George

On 12/23/2021 12:04 PM, David Goldfield wrote:
Hello. The download link for JAWS 2022 is back on the Freedom Scientific Web site.
https://support.freedomscientific.com/Downloads/JAWS


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org



-----Original Message-----
From: David Goldfield
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:08 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: RE: new jaws program

It does appear that the download links for JAWS are not available on the FS Web site including the offline installer. I'm sure it's a temporary glitch but I'll inform them via their @FreedomSci handle on Twitter.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019 Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of G. Gray
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:02 AM
To: JFW list <jfw@groups.io>
Subject: new jaws program

Hello All-


I just visited the JAWS website and frankly was unable to download the newest JAW installer for a new windows 11 computer...can someone help here?  Thanks.

S

--
Listening for the Shout!,
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18



George

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


moderated Re: Buying a laptop

Tom Behler
 

All:

I may have more questions about this as I proceed further, but if you purchase a windows tablet or laptop without a numpad, will there be any problems invoking certain Jaws reading commands, like Insert 2, Insert 3, etc.?

I would assume you could use the numbers on the main number row, and the insert key on the normal keyboard.

Is this correct?

Thank you!

Dr. Tom Behler From Michigan

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bonnie Vegiard
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 2:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on buying the laptop. I am so used to the desktop layout that I have relied on the NUM pad, and I found it difficult to switch over. Also, I have some vision, so a larger screen is helpful. The guy who is going to make a recommendation did come through, but he recommended one with a touchscreen, which I think is only going to complicate things for me. Still trying to decide whether to get a bigger laptop, or just get a num pad to go with the one I’ve got. But I appreciate all your thoughts.

Bonnie Vegiard
On Dec 23, 2021, at 12:50 PM, Zachary Morris <morriszachary99@...> wrote:

I think I remember that issue on my old dell laptop. Although I’m not quite sure if it was because of realtek drivers or some other reason; when I switched to the microsoft audio driver, I don’t quite remember if that fixed it; I remember doing way too much configuration for my own good when I started using that laptop.
Regards,
Zach
Sent from my MacBook Air (Retina, 13-inch, 2020)

On Dec 23, 2021, at 11:43, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:

Lori is correct. If a user prefers a number pad as part of the keyboard and if having one makes things easier then the user should have it. While I’m personally fine with using my preferred external keyboard with my laptop this definitely reduces the portability if you frequently travel.
One consideration that hasn’t been mentioned is the problematic audio latency issues when using screen readers with some (but definitely not all) Realtek drivers. The Microsoft store had a sale with an Asus Vivobook laptop which I bought for my sighted wife. Its performance was impressive but I noticed a delay between pressing a key and hearing the screen reader speak the results of that key press. This was true for both typing characters as well as navigating with arrow keys. Disabling audio enhancements definitely helped but there was still a slight delay which I was unable to fix no matter what I tried which included installing the latest Realtek drivers and running the SFC and Dism commands. My sixth generation I7 Dell Lattitude, which also uses Realtek drivers, provides completely instant response and if I can’t have that same level of responsiveness with an 11th-generation I5 I don’t want the laptop. I’ve alerted Asus about this but wanted to throw that out there as a possible warning. Based on feedback from these groups I’m assuming the problem isn’t all that common but it happens enough that I think some organized advocacy with Realtek is definitely in order.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org



From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lori Lynn
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:12 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I also went through the process of buying a new laptop this summer. It was more complicated by the fact that I live in a very small town and the nearest place to actually look at more than 2 or 3 is about 50 miles away. I also strongly wanted a numpad as well. Part of it is I’m older and wanted what I’m use to having. Part of it is also because I felt that having a separate keyboard was more cumbersome than I wanted to deal with. I ended up getting a 17 inch Del through Amazon. I found that if it has a numpad then it will be mentioned in the description. Remember that you are the one who will be using it, so get what you want and can afford.

Lori Lynn


From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Abraham
Sweiss
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 10:53 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I would buy an external keyboard

Thanks,abraham


On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:54 AM, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:


If having a numeric keypad on your laptop’s keyboard is important to you I’d recommend two things. First, look at the description of the laptop on the page since it might mention that a number pad is included. If it doesn’t I would send a link to a sighted person to ask if they see a number pad on the keyboard.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org



From: main@jfw.groups.io<main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Phillip
Gross
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:07 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I, like others, don't use the numpad. In fact, at home where I use a bluetooth keyboard, I still use laptop layout, but that's just my preference.

Anyway, you have two options. If you never travel with your laptop, then I would go get a keyboard that you like. Try several and see which one fits you best. If you do travel with your laptop, then get an external numpad. That will fit in a laptop bag and shouldn't take up much room.





moderated Re: Buying a laptop

Bonnie Vegiard
 

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on buying the laptop. I am so used to the desktop layout that I have relied on the NUM pad, and I found it difficult to switch over. Also, I have some vision, so a larger screen is helpful. The guy who is going to make a recommendation did come through, but he recommended one with a touchscreen, which I think is only going to complicate things for me. Still trying to decide whether to get a bigger laptop, or just get a num pad to go with the one I’ve got. But I appreciate all your thoughts.

Bonnie Vegiard

On Dec 23, 2021, at 12:50 PM, Zachary Morris <morriszachary99@...> wrote:

I think I remember that issue on my old dell laptop. Although I’m not quite sure if it was because of realtek drivers or some other reason; when I switched to the microsoft audio driver, I don’t quite remember if that fixed it; I remember doing way too much configuration for my own good when I started using that laptop.
Regards,
Zach
Sent from my MacBook Air (Retina, 13-inch, 2020)

On Dec 23, 2021, at 11:43, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:

Lori is correct. If a user prefers a number pad as part of the keyboard and if having one makes things easier then the user should have it. While I’m personally fine with using my preferred external keyboard with my laptop this definitely reduces the portability if you frequently travel.
One consideration that hasn’t been mentioned is the problematic audio latency issues when using screen readers with some (but definitely not all) Realtek drivers. The Microsoft store had a sale with an Asus Vivobook laptop which I bought for my sighted wife. Its performance was impressive but I noticed a delay between pressing a key and hearing the screen reader speak the results of that key press. This was true for both typing characters as well as navigating with arrow keys. Disabling audio enhancements definitely helped but there was still a slight delay which I was unable to fix no matter what I tried which included installing the latest Realtek drivers and running the SFC and Dism commands. My sixth generation I7 Dell Lattitude, which also uses Realtek drivers, provides completely instant response and if I can’t have that same level of responsiveness with an 11th-generation I5 I don’t want the laptop. I’ve alerted Asus about this but wanted to throw that out there as a possible warning. Based on feedback from these groups I’m assuming the problem isn’t all that common but it happens enough that I think some organized advocacy with Realtek is definitely in order.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org



From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lori Lynn
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:12 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I also went through the process of buying a new laptop this summer. It was more complicated by the fact that I live in a very small town and the nearest place to actually look at more than 2 or 3 is about 50 miles away. I also strongly wanted a numpad as well. Part of it is I’m older and wanted what I’m use to having. Part of it is also because I felt that having a separate keyboard was more cumbersome than I wanted to deal with. I ended up getting a 17 inch Del through Amazon. I found that if it has a numpad then it will be mentioned in the description. Remember that you are the one who will be using it, so get what you want and can afford.

Lori Lynn


From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Abraham Sweiss
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 10:53 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I would buy an external keyboard

Thanks,abraham


On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:54 AM, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:


If having a numeric keypad on your laptop’s keyboard is important to you I’d recommend two things. First, look at the description of the laptop on the page since it might mention that a number pad is included. If it doesn’t I would send a link to a sighted person to ask if they see a number pad on the keyboard.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org



From: main@jfw.groups.io<main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Phillip Gross
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:07 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I, like others, don't use the numpad. In fact, at home where I use a bluetooth keyboard, I still use laptop layout, but that's just my preference.

Anyway, you have two options. If you never travel with your laptop, then I would go get a keyboard that you like. Try several and see which one fits you best. If you do travel with your laptop, then get an external numpad. That will fit in a laptop bag and shouldn't take up much room.





moderated Re: Buying a laptop

Zachary Morris
 

I think I remember that issue on my old dell laptop. Although I’m not quite sure if it was because of realtek drivers or some other reason; when I switched to the microsoft audio driver, I don’t quite remember if that fixed it; I remember doing way too much configuration for my own good when I started using that laptop.
Regards,
Zach
Sent from my MacBook Air (Retina, 13-inch, 2020)

On Dec 23, 2021, at 11:43, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:

Lori is correct. If a user prefers a number pad as part of the keyboard and if having one makes things easier then the user should have it. While I’m personally fine with using my preferred external keyboard with my laptop this definitely reduces the portability if you frequently travel.
One consideration that hasn’t been mentioned is the problematic audio latency issues when using screen readers with some (but definitely not all) Realtek drivers. The Microsoft store had a sale with an Asus Vivobook laptop which I bought for my sighted wife. Its performance was impressive but I noticed a delay between pressing a key and hearing the screen reader speak the results of that key press. This was true for both typing characters as well as navigating with arrow keys. Disabling audio enhancements definitely helped but there was still a slight delay which I was unable to fix no matter what I tried which included installing the latest Realtek drivers and running the SFC and Dism commands. My sixth generation I7 Dell Lattitude, which also uses Realtek drivers, provides completely instant response and if I can’t have that same level of responsiveness with an 11th-generation I5 I don’t want the laptop. I’ve alerted Asus about this but wanted to throw that out there as a possible warning. Based on feedback from these groups I’m assuming the problem isn’t all that common but it happens enough that I think some organized advocacy with Realtek is definitely in order.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org



From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lori Lynn
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:12 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I also went through the process of buying a new laptop this summer. It was more complicated by the fact that I live in a very small town and the nearest place to actually look at more than 2 or 3 is about 50 miles away. I also strongly wanted a numpad as well. Part of it is I’m older and wanted what I’m use to having. Part of it is also because I felt that having a separate keyboard was more cumbersome than I wanted to deal with. I ended up getting a 17 inch Del through Amazon. I found that if it has a numpad then it will be mentioned in the description. Remember that you are the one who will be using it, so get what you want and can afford.

Lori Lynn


From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Abraham Sweiss
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 10:53 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I would buy an external keyboard

Thanks,abraham


On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:54 AM, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:


If having a numeric keypad on your laptop’s keyboard is important to you I’d recommend two things. First, look at the description of the laptop on the page since it might mention that a number pad is included. If it doesn’t I would send a link to a sighted person to ask if they see a number pad on the keyboard.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org



From: main@jfw.groups.io<main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Phillip Gross
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:07 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I, like others, don't use the numpad. In fact, at home where I use a bluetooth keyboard, I still use laptop layout, but that's just my preference.

Anyway, you have two options. If you never travel with your laptop, then I would go get a keyboard that you like. Try several and see which one fits you best. If you do travel with your laptop, then get an external numpad. That will fit in a laptop bag and shouldn't take up much room.


moderated Re: Jaws2022 to disable Jaws2021 to use

Steven Hicks
 

Run JAWS 2021 and then go in to the options and set it to run at startup, it should then stop 2022 starting up but if not, just put two shortcuts on your desktop and give them a different name, a different shortcut each if you like.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of O.Addison Gethers
Sent: 12 December 2021 13:39
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Jaws2022 to disable Jaws2021 to use

 

Hi All

I have jaws2022  and want to disable it to use jaws2021  How do I  do that?

Addison


moderated Re: new jaws program

David Goldfield
 

Hello. The download link for JAWS 2022 is back on the Freedom Scientific Web site.
https://support.freedomscientific.com/Downloads/JAWS


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

-----Original Message-----
From: David Goldfield
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:08 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: RE: new jaws program

It does appear that the download links for JAWS are not available on the FS Web site including the offline installer. I'm sure it's a temporary glitch but I'll inform them via their @FreedomSci handle on Twitter.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019 Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of G. Gray
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:02 AM
To: JFW list <jfw@groups.io>
Subject: new jaws program

Hello All-


I just visited the JAWS website and frankly was unable to download the newest JAW installer for a new windows 11 computer...can someone help here?  Thanks.

S

--
Listening for the Shout!,
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18



George


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.avast.com%2Fantivirus&;data=04%7C01%7C%7C06d8dc1e3a8c4a926d2608d9c61cd2fb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758649360513156%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=1%2BQ1CY0h4AIRwrYXSSpjSVKGUJVvwyYckcF5eTk2MfI%3D&amp;reserved=0


moderated Re: Buying a laptop

David Goldfield
 

Lori is correct. If a user prefers a number pad as part of the keyboard and if having one makes things easier then the user should have it. While I’m personally fine with using my preferred external keyboard with my laptop this definitely reduces the portability if you frequently travel.

One consideration that hasn’t been mentioned is the problematic audio latency issues when using screen readers with some (but definitely not all) Realtek drivers. The Microsoft store had a sale with an Asus Vivobook laptop which I bought for my sighted wife. Its performance was impressive but I noticed a delay between pressing a key and hearing the screen reader speak the results of that key press. This was true for both typing characters as well as navigating with arrow keys. Disabling audio enhancements definitely helped but there was still a slight delay which I was unable to fix no matter what I tried which included installing the latest Realtek drivers and running the SFC and Dism commands. My sixth generation I7 Dell Lattitude, which also uses Realtek drivers, provides completely instant response and if I can’t have that same level of responsiveness with an 11th-generation I5 I don’t want the laptop. I’ve alerted Asus about this but wanted to throw that out there as a possible warning. Based on feedback from these groups I’m assuming the problem isn’t all that common but it happens enough that I think some organized advocacy with Realtek is definitely in order.

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lori Lynn
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:12 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

 

I also went through the process of buying a new laptop this summer. It was more complicated by the fact that I live in a very small town and the nearest place to actually look at more than 2 or 3 is about 50 miles away. I also strongly wanted a numpad as well. Part of it is I’m older and wanted what I’m use to having. Part of it is also because I felt that having a separate keyboard was more cumbersome than I wanted to deal with. I ended up getting a 17 inch Del through Amazon. I found that if it has a numpad then it will be mentioned in the description. Remember that you are the one who will be using it, so get what you want and can afford.

 

Lori Lynn

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Abraham Sweiss
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 10:53 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

 

I would buy an external keyboard

Thanks,abraham 

 

On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:54 AM, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:



If having a numeric keypad on your laptop’s keyboard is important to you I’d recommend two things. First, look at the description of the laptop on the page since it might mention that a number pad is included. If it doesn’t I would send a link to a sighted person to ask if they see a number pad on the keyboard.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Phillip Gross
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:07 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

 

I, like others, don't use the numpad. In fact, at home where I use a bluetooth keyboard, I still use laptop layout, but that's just my preference. 

Anyway, you have two options. If you never travel with your laptop, then I would go get a keyboard that you like. Try several and see which one fits you best. If you do travel with your laptop, then get an external numpad. That will fit in a laptop bag and shouldn't take up much room.


moderated Re: perplexing punctuation problem

Orlando Enrique Fiol
 

At 02:29 PM 12/22/2021, Ben Moxey wrote:
I've got 194, too. Have you tried using the "Restore Defaults" button in the
Customise Punctuation dialog box?


I have indeed tried restoring defaults, to no avail. The plot thickens, though. Even when my punctuation list numbers only 72 entries, the settings for the missing entries are still applied; I know this because, depending on the speech synthesizer, the 194 punctuation list entries sometimes load. Go figure!
Orlando Enrique Fiol
Charlotte, North Carolina
Professional Pianist/Keyboardist, Percussionist and Pedagogue
Ph.D. in Music theory
University of Pennsylvania: November, 2018
Home: (980) 585-1516
Mobile: (267) 971-7090


moderated Re: Buying a laptop

Lori Lynn
 

I also went through the process of buying a new laptop this summer. It was more complicated by the fact that I live in a very small town and the nearest place to actually look at more than 2 or 3 is about 50 miles away. I also strongly wanted a numpad as well. Part of it is I’m older and wanted what I’m use to having. Part of it is also because I felt that having a separate keyboard was more cumbersome than I wanted to deal with. I ended up getting a 17 inch Del through Amazon. I found that if it has a numpad then it will be mentioned in the description. Remember that you are the one who will be using it, so get what you want and can afford.

 

Lori Lynn

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Abraham Sweiss
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 10:53 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

 

I would buy an external keyboard

Thanks,abraham 



On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:54 AM, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:



If having a numeric keypad on your laptop’s keyboard is important to you I’d recommend two things. First, look at the description of the laptop on the page since it might mention that a number pad is included. If it doesn’t I would send a link to a sighted person to ask if they see a number pad on the keyboard.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Phillip Gross
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:07 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

 

I, like others, don't use the numpad. In fact, at home where I use a bluetooth keyboard, I still use laptop layout, but that's just my preference. 

Anyway, you have two options. If you never travel with your laptop, then I would go get a keyboard that you like. Try several and see which one fits you best. If you do travel with your laptop, then get an external numpad. That will fit in a laptop bag and shouldn't take up much room.


moderated Re: email client question

Madison Martin
 

Okay, this is very interesting as trying to send messages to groups.io groups is often when I’ve gotten locked out of my account. Maybe I should log back in to my outlook.com account and try and get this figured out. My email service provider is one that marks groups.io messages as junk and I’m very tired of marking them as not junk and still having the same problem. I’m glad to know that I’m not the only person who has issues with their outlook.com account.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: December 23, 2021 10:36 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email client question

 

On Thu, Dec 23, 2021 at 12:09 AM, <bushyx008@...> wrote:

Currently,groups.io is returning all my outlook.com based messages sent to the two lists which use groups.io and has been doing so for the past month or more. The messages are returned as undeliverable.

-
Then this is a time to open a support ticket with groups.io (support@groups.io) to determine what's going on.  There is no policy of Groups.io that I know of to bounce messages originating from outlook.com (I presume we're talking about a sender that is XXX@...) and there's no reason that a groups.io mailing address being used by a subscribed outlook.com address should bounce.

It's usually the other way around, and many email service providers mark groups.io messages as spam when they cannot be spam, since the only way you get any messages from groups.io is if you've subscribed.  They're not unsolicited so, not spam.

Forward one of your bounced messages to groups.io support and ask them to have a look.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

       ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019


moderated Re: Buying a laptop

Abraham Sweiss
 

I would buy an external keyboard

Thanks,abraham 

On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:54 AM, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:



If having a numeric keypad on your laptop’s keyboard is important to you I’d recommend two things. First, look at the description of the laptop on the page since it might mention that a number pad is included. If it doesn’t I would send a link to a sighted person to ask if they see a number pad on the keyboard.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Phillip Gross
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:07 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

 

I, like others, don't use the numpad. In fact, at home where I use a bluetooth keyboard, I still use laptop layout, but that's just my preference. 

Anyway, you have two options. If you never travel with your laptop, then I would go get a keyboard that you like. Try several and see which one fits you best. If you do travel with your laptop, then get an external numpad. That will fit in a laptop bag and shouldn't take up much room.


moderated Re: email client question

 

On Thu, Dec 23, 2021 at 12:09 AM, <bushyx008@...> wrote:
Currently,groups.io is returning all my outlook.com based messages sent to the two lists which use groups.io and has been doing so for the past month or more. The messages are returned as undeliverable.
-
Then this is a time to open a support ticket with groups.io (support@groups.io) to determine what's going on.  There is no policy of Groups.io that I know of to bounce messages originating from outlook.com (I presume we're talking about a sender that is XXX@...) and there's no reason that a groups.io mailing address being used by a subscribed outlook.com address should bounce.

It's usually the other way around, and many email service providers mark groups.io messages as spam when they cannot be spam, since the only way you get any messages from groups.io is if you've subscribed.  They're not unsolicited so, not spam.

Forward one of your bounced messages to groups.io support and ask them to have a look.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

       ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019


moderated Re: email client question

Madison Martin
 

Because my ISP filters too much and I'm tired of things being marked as junk
when they aren't and worrying about whether or not a message will get blocked or
whether or not a message came through.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Chernack via
groups.io
Sent: December 23, 2021 9:54 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email client question

Okay, thanks for the clarification.

Why not use your ISP's domain email service?

MS Outlook is pretty solid as an email client, and so well integrated with the
other MS Office suite, why not just avoid problems and use the full suite of MS
products?

Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 9:05 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email client question

Hi, Ken. Madison knows she has Outlook. It's not working properly for her, so
she's contemplating the differences between Thunderbird and Outlook.

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ken Chernack
via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 5:11 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email client question

Good evening.
If you have Office365 then you already have Outlook!
HTH,
Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Madison Martin
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:01 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: email client question

Hi all,
I got to wondering, what are the differences and similarities between Outlook
and Thunderbird in terms of keystrokes, using them with Jaws etc.? I know the
big one, that Thunderbird is free and Outlook isn't. I currently use Office 365,
but I've heard people talking about Thunderbird and so I got curious. If it's
pretty similar and if there wouldn't be much of a learning curve then I might
think about trying it especially if it would solve the issue with my Outlook.com
account. Using latest versions of Jaws and Windows 10. Look forward to any info
that anyone can provide me!! Thanks Madison


moderated Re: email client question

Ken Chernack
 

Okay, thanks for the clarification.

Why not use your ISP's domain email service?

MS Outlook is pretty solid as an email client, and so well integrated with
the other MS Office suite, why not just avoid problems and use the full
suite of MS products?

Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 9:05 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email client question

Hi, Ken. Madison knows she has Outlook. It's not working properly for her,
so she's contemplating the differences between Thunderbird and Outlook.

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ken
Chernack via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 5:11 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email client question

Good evening.
If you have Office365 then you already have Outlook!
HTH,
Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Madison Martin
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:01 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: email client question

Hi all,
I got to wondering, what are the differences and similarities between
Outlook and Thunderbird in terms of keystrokes, using them with Jaws etc.? I
know the big one, that Thunderbird is free and Outlook isn't. I currently
use Office 365, but I've heard people talking about Thunderbird and so I got
curious. If it's pretty similar and if there wouldn't be much of a learning
curve then I might think about trying it especially if it would solve the
issue with my Outlook.com account. Using latest versions of Jaws and
Windows 10. Look forward to any info that anyone can provide me!! Thanks
Madison

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