Date   

moderated Re: Installing Jaws scripts

Udo Egner-Walter
 

Hi John, 

You can find the folder dealing with user scripts this way: 

1. Depending on your JAWS installation: 

a) If you start JAWS in system tray then press JAWS+J to open JAWS context menu
b) If you don't start JAWS in system tray then Press JAWS+J to bring JAWS window to the front and activate the menu by pressing alt key

2. Select "Utilities" and open it

3. Select "Explore Utilities Folder". Now Explorer will open with some file links. 

4. Search for "Explore my settings" file link and activate it. Another Explorer window will now open containing your settings and user scripts.  

If your script file is for a particular application you can copy the scripts file here. If the JSB file is from an older version of JAWS it's a good idea to open your application, then press JAWS+0 (0 in the number row above the chars, not the number block on the right side). This will open Script Manager with your script file. Press Control+S to compile the script again, a new JSB will be made from JAWS. 

If your script file is not for a particular application or another script file for an application already exists, you can include your file with a "USE" command. It this is what you need let me know and I can describe this in detail. 

Good luck with your script file
Udo 



Am 06.03.2021 um 13:15 schrieb John J. Fioravanti, Jr. <fioresq1@...>:

Hi: perhaps it's my age, but it's been a long time, and I don't remember how to install jaws scripts, the JSB JSD and JSS files. Could someone walk me through it?
Thanks. 
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 12:55 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!
 
On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 12:36 AM, Leedy Diane Bomar wrote:
There are many reasons why this is the most imaginable offensive question.
-
Then, Diane, we definitely come from very, very different worlds.  I can come up with at least 20 questions, off the top of my head, that exceed this one in offensiveness.

There can be people who are being offensive, but I have very clearly explained why it is foolish, yes, foolish to assume that without additional evidence.

And I will say, again, that all accessibility is a workaround.  In the case of screen readers, it is the substitution of audition for vision.  The two senses are in no way directly equivalent.  This will always entail compromises and while the experience can be substantially the same when it comes to text-based information, it will never be for many things that cannot be captured that way.

And the idea that "light dependence no longer needs to be the only way to access information" has been here, now, for quite a while.  But the fact is, and will always remain, that visual media, and anything on a computer besides text is just that, is going to be designed primarily with that in mind.  That it should be accessible, to the maximal extent possible, via other means should be a given in good design.  But do not delude yourself into thinking that even things most ideally designed for maximal accessibility can, or will, ever be able to give you "exactly the same information" that the sighted get, because they can't.

And, by the way, my earlier comments regarding tech support was for tech support dedicated to screen reader users or users of other assistive technology.  Most techs not in that arena have no reason to know about assistive technology.  It is not cost effective to try to train every generic help desk person in how to use a screen reader, particularly since most larger companies do have dedicated AT support and smaller companies have to pick where their money goes.  If there is not a substantial blind user base of a given product, and the maker is a small company down to "mom and pop," they cannot reasonably be expected to have screen reader literate tech support.

And that's not because you're less of a person, or less worthy of respect.  It's because you are part of a tiny minority in the general population and there are limited resources, financial and otherwise.  I really cannot believe that anyone who is blind does not understand this, I really can't.  And if that's offensive to say, so be it, because it is a fact, and one that is never, ever going to change.    
-- 
Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  
One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.
           ~ André Gide



moderated Installing Jaws scripts

John J. Fioravanti, Jr.
 

Hi: perhaps it's my age, but it's been a long time, and I don't remember how to install jaws scripts, the JSB JSD and JSS files. Could someone walk me through it?

Thanks.

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 12:55 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 12:36 AM, Leedy Diane Bomar wrote:

There are many reasons why this is the most imaginable offensive question.

-
Then, Diane, we definitely come from very, very different worlds.  I can come up with at least 20 questions, off the top of my head, that exceed this one in offensiveness.

There can be people who are being offensive, but I have very clearly explained why it is foolish, yes, foolish to assume that without additional evidence.

And I will say, again, that all accessibility is a workaround.  In the case of screen readers, it is the substitution of audition for vision.  The two senses are in no way directly equivalent.  This will always entail compromises and while the experience can be substantially the same when it comes to text-based information, it will never be for many things that cannot be captured that way.

And the idea that "light dependence no longer needs to be the only way to access information" has been here, now, for quite a while.  But the fact is, and will always remain, that visual media, and anything on a computer besides text is just that, is going to be designed primarily with that in mind.  That it should be accessible, to the maximal extent possible, via other means should be a given in good design.  But do not delude yourself into thinking that even things most ideally designed for maximal accessibility can, or will, ever be able to give you "exactly the same information" that the sighted get, because they can't.

And, by the way, my earlier comments regarding tech support was for tech support dedicated to screen reader users or users of other assistive technology.  Most techs not in that arena have no reason to know about assistive technology.  It is not cost effective to try to train every generic help desk person in how to use a screen reader, particularly since most larger companies do have dedicated AT support and smaller companies have to pick where their money goes.  If there is not a substantial blind user base of a given product, and the maker is a small company down to "mom and pop," they cannot reasonably be expected to have screen reader literate tech support.

And that's not because you're less of a person, or less worthy of respect.  It's because you are part of a tiny minority in the general population and there are limited resources, financial and otherwise.  I really cannot believe that anyone who is blind does not understand this, I really can't.  And if that's offensive to say, so be it, because it is a fact, and one that is never, ever going to change.    
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 12:36 AM, Leedy Diane Bomar wrote:
There are many reasons why this is the most imaginable offensive question.
-
Then, Diane, we definitely come from very, very different worlds.  I can come up with at least 20 questions, off the top of my head, that exceed this one in offensiveness.

There can be people who are being offensive, but I have very clearly explained why it is foolish, yes, foolish to assume that without additional evidence.

And I will say, again, that all accessibility is a workaround.  In the case of screen readers, it is the substitution of audition for vision.  The two senses are in no way directly equivalent.  This will always entail compromises and while the experience can be substantially the same when it comes to text-based information, it will never be for many things that cannot be captured that way.

And the idea that "light dependence no longer needs to be the only way to access information" has been here, now, for quite a while.  But the fact is, and will always remain, that visual media, and anything on a computer besides text is just that, is going to be designed primarily with that in mind.  That it should be accessible, to the maximal extent possible, via other means should be a given in good design.  But do not delude yourself into thinking that even things most ideally designed for maximal accessibility can, or will, ever be able to give you "exactly the same information" that the sighted get, because they can't.

And, by the way, my earlier comments regarding tech support was for tech support dedicated to screen reader users or users of other assistive technology.  Most techs not in that arena have no reason to know about assistive technology.  It is not cost effective to try to train every generic help desk person in how to use a screen reader, particularly since most larger companies do have dedicated AT support and smaller companies have to pick where their money goes.  If there is not a substantial blind user base of a given product, and the maker is a small company down to "mom and pop," they cannot reasonably be expected to have screen reader literate tech support.

And that's not because you're less of a person, or less worthy of respect.  It's because you are part of a tiny minority in the general population and there are limited resources, financial and otherwise.  I really cannot believe that anyone who is blind does not understand this, I really can't.  And if that's offensive to say, so be it, because it is a fact, and one that is never, ever going to change.    
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 12:08 AM, G. Gray wrote:
Whenever I get a comment like "Click on the yellow x at the top of the screen,"  I say..."Do me a favor turn your screen off.  Is it off.  What do you see exactly?  OK now you see what I see...now tell me again what to do!"
-
That's an excellent approach, and drives the point home in a perfect demonstration.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

Leedy Diane Bomar
 

Brian,
There are many reasons why this is the most imaginable offensive question.
It is asked by almost every help desk to which I have spoken.
Sometimes, it is said as: "is there someone there that can help?"
Which means "someone with sight" which implies that a blind person is not a ":"someone". Also, if I had this invisible friend, caretaker, babysitter, etc. wouldn't I have already thought to ask for their help? Why do sighted people assume that, we as people who cannot see, have a sighted person at our beckon call. Who pays for this helper?

Most of the time it is the fault of the company that a sighted assistant may be needed because their developers did not consider the needs of non-visual access. I believe in making this their problem, not mine! How will they ever learn that it is not a blindness issue, but a product development/design issue, if they always have a "sighted person" to solve the problem. That is NOT independence or encouraging full inclusion through accessibility.

I am always snarky in my response to this question, try to be humorous, and explain why it is the most insulting offensive question ever! I often tell them that my guide dog can see the screen, but she cannot speak. I am sick and tired of the assumption, especially at help desks, and particularly at accessibility help desks for the person I am calling for assistance wants/expects me to have a sighted person readily available! 
The problem is the lack of accessibility, not the fact that I cannot see the screen. There are so many options in design that light dependence no longer needs to be the only way to access information. I am not less of a person, less worthy of respect or assistance, because my eyes don't work. It is the developer's job to include non-visual access in their products, and I believe that we all need to let them know that.

Many times I may have a blind friend visiting, and the tech help desk person hears the person say something, and immediately asks if that person can get on the phone. I explain that this other person is also totally blind, and immediately they are discounted as that "someone who can help." This question, by far, is the most insulting offensive question, and the most often asked.Why that question is offensive! 

 Diane Bomar

On Mar 5, 2021, at 16:24, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 02:30 PM, Marianne Denning wrote:
I was working with someone who worked for another blindness company and the person asked me if I had a sighted person who could help.
-
I want someone to explain why this question is offensive.

When you're at a help desk, any help desk, the goal is generally to get a fix as quickly as possible.  There are times where having a sighted assistant can greatly speed things along.  There are times when there really is no substitute for sight when it comes to getting maximum speed and minimum fuss identifying what's happening.  Joseph Lee once said to me, in regard to web browsing, that the sighted (which would include me) see a webpage (but this would apply to anything displaying on a screen) as a gestalt, taking it all in at once, and filtering out the irrelevant versus relevant visually without even realizing you're doing so.  A screen reader user goes element by element through unfamiliar territory and cannot "take it all in at once."  Those are simple facts.

If you don't have access to a sighted assistant, then the answer to that query is, "No, I don't have easy access to a sighted assistant."

Asking whether such is available is not meant, not should it be taken, as a slight to someone who's blind.  I cannot imagine that most in the readership here have not, on multiple occasions, had someone who could see around who could "instantly" identify something you've been struggling with for hours such that you want to scream and rend your garments.  Examples of this completely unrelated to the computer abound, too.  My "value added" most of the time is that I can see something that's, sadly, either not accessible or not accessible quickly and easily and could take a screen reader user hours to find because of how a given program/screen is structured.

If your job is to try to fix an issue as quickly as possible you use all the tools at your disposal, and as a help desk tech there are times where a sighted assistant is a really handy tool to have.  If not available, you try another way, but in many instances it will invariably take much longer.  But if you don't ask whether an optional tool, in this case a sighted assistant, might be available you're not doing your job, or at least not doing it well.  
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

G. Gray
 

Whenever I get a comment like "Click on the yellow x at the top of the screen,"  I say..."Do me a favor turn your screen off.  Is it off.  What do you see exactly?  OK now you see what I see...now tell me again what to do!"

 

Listening for that Shout!,
(1 Thessalonians 4:13-18)


George
On 3/5/2021 6:59 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 02:23 PM, David Diamond wrote:
Then there was the one who said constantly, “You see the yellow X at the top of your screen, click on that.” I thought and almost vocalized, “What part of I’m blind are you not getting!”
-
By the way, that would be an entirely appropriate response.

If you're on the help desk for individuals who are blind or visually impaired, the use of phrases that include, "see" in the sense of vision should be nowhere in your vocabulary when asking questions of someone you already know can't.  This is not rocket science, nor should it be tolerated.

Dope slaps when people are being dopes are A-OK, and if you have someone who was accidentally being a dope, which happens more often than one might think, their response is generally a prompt apology.  They recognize they've been inappropriate, even if that was the result of an accidental lapse.  Defending the indefensible is never a good idea.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide




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moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

Sherri
 

The phone number is 800-936-5900.  You can also contact them through Be My Eyes if you use that service.  Hope this helps.

 

Sherri

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 11:03 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:15 PM, David Diamond wrote:

I was just making the point that some should not be working there because they are not good listeners.

-
Indeed.  At the same time, one does have to consider that everyone is a neophyte at whatever they may be doing at one time or another.  And, when it comes to tech support in particular you can get suddenly pulled in to an arena that's not "your usual."

For me, it's not so much that someone makes a mistake or does something thoughtless (as in without thought, rather than with intent), but what they do after that's called to their attention, and that attention calling is best done gently, initially.  But if clear hint after clear hint is ignored, that's when a dope slap is called for.

It was your observation "constantly" that triggered my dope slap comment.  It's easy, sometimes, to forget that you're talking to someone who can't see and you can and do slip back into, "Click the red X, blah, blah, blah."  But if you need to be reminded, more than once, in a given encounter that someone can't see and giving visual directions is inappropriate, you're asleep at the wheel.

One of the very trickiest things to learn how to do as far as listening is coming to know some of the things people regularly give as complaints, where they believe they're dealing with some known issue, but in reality they're asking about another.  It's a kind of "read between the lines" sort of thing, and having been an instructor in the classroom as well as doing lots of tech support I have learned to listen, but with an ear towards figuring out what's wanted as opposed to focusing on the presenting complaint in many cases.  It's something you can't teach, and it's something that makes a big difference.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:15 PM, David Diamond wrote:
I was just making the point that some should not be working there because they are not good listeners.
-
Indeed.  At the same time, one does have to consider that everyone is a neophyte at whatever they may be doing at one time or another.  And, when it comes to tech support in particular you can get suddenly pulled in to an arena that's not "your usual."

For me, it's not so much that someone makes a mistake or does something thoughtless (as in without thought, rather than with intent), but what they do after that's called to their attention, and that attention calling is best done gently, initially.  But if clear hint after clear hint is ignored, that's when a dope slap is called for.

It was your observation "constantly" that triggered my dope slap comment.  It's easy, sometimes, to forget that you're talking to someone who can't see and you can and do slip back into, "Click the red X, blah, blah, blah."  But if you need to be reminded, more than once, in a given encounter that someone can't see and giving visual directions is inappropriate, you're asleep at the wheel.

One of the very trickiest things to learn how to do as far as listening is coming to know some of the things people regularly give as complaints, where they believe they're dealing with some known issue, but in reality they're asking about another.  It's a kind of "read between the lines" sort of thing, and having been an instructor in the classroom as well as doing lots of tech support I have learned to listen, but with an ear towards figuring out what's wanted as opposed to focusing on the presenting complaint in many cases.  It's something you can't teach, and it's something that makes a big difference.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

David Diamond
 

Brian, as you know, probably I was just making the point that some should not be working there because they are not good listeners.  When working on the phones, one of the skills one needs is to listen what the other person is telling you or requesting. No one agency is perfect and by enlarge the MS help desk is overall pretty good.  It’s just frustrating when after sitting on hold for 30 or more minutes you get someone like that.  At one agency I after getting nowhere with the person on the phone, asked to speak to a supervisor and the person I made the request too, asked why.   

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: March 5, 2021 5:00 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 02:23 PM, David Diamond wrote:

Then there was the one who said constantly, “You see the yellow X at the top of your screen, click on that.” I thought and almost vocalized, “What part of I’m blind are you not getting!”

-
By the way, that would be an entirely appropriate response.

If you're on the help desk for individuals who are blind or visually impaired, the use of phrases that include, "see" in the sense of vision should be nowhere in your vocabulary when asking questions of someone you already know can't.  This is not rocket science, nor should it be tolerated.

Dope slaps when people are being dopes are A-OK, and if you have someone who was accidentally being a dope, which happens more often than one might think, their response is generally a prompt apology.  They recognize they've been inappropriate, even if that was the result of an accidental lapse.  Defending the indefensible is never a good idea.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 08:36 PM, HH. Smith Jr. wrote:
It is insulting to your intelligence, because you’re blind not stupid.
-
Uh, you're demonstrating just the opposite.  Anyone who would think that a question regarding the presence of absence of a sighted assistant is a reflection on thier own intelligence, well . . .
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

Marty Hutchings
 

And, I’ve even gotten asked how I do that.
 
Love in Christ
Marty
If we view this present life as our primary goal, we will agree with William Shakespeare who said: “Life is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.” From TODAY IN THE WORD June 1, 2020
 

Sent: Friday, March 05, 2021 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!
 

Hi,

 

It is insulting to your intelligence, because you’re blind not stupid. You cannot see; therefore, anything above chewing is impossible for you to do.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 6:24 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 02:30 PM, Marianne Denning wrote:

I was working with someone who worked for another blindness company and the person asked me if I had a sighted person who could help.

-
I want someone to explain why this question is offensive.

When you're at a help desk, any help desk, the goal is generally to get a fix as quickly as possible.  There are times where having a sighted assistant can greatly speed things along.  There are times when there really is no substitute for sight when it comes to getting maximum speed and minimum fuss identifying what's happening.  Joseph Lee once said to me, in regard to web browsing, that the sighted (which would include me) see a webpage (but this would apply to anything displaying on a screen) as a gestalt, taking it all in at once, and filtering out the irrelevant versus relevant visually without even realizing you're doing so.  A screen reader user goes element by element through unfamiliar territory and cannot "take it all in at once."  Those are simple facts.

If you don't have access to a sighted assistant, then the answer to that query is, "No, I don't have easy access to a sighted assistant."

Asking whether such is available is not meant, not should it be taken, as a slight to someone who's blind.  I cannot imagine that most in the readership here have not, on multiple occasions, had someone who could see around who could "instantly" identify something you've been struggling with for hours such that you want to scream and rend your garments.  Examples of this completely unrelated to the computer abound, too.  My "value added" most of the time is that I can see something that's, sadly, either not accessible or not accessible quickly and easily and could take a screen reader user hours to find because of how a given program/screen is structured.

If your job is to try to fix an issue as quickly as possible you use all the tools at your disposal, and as a help desk tech there are times where a sighted assistant is a really handy tool to have.  If not available, you try another way, but in many instances it will invariably take much longer.  But if you don't ask whether an optional tool, in this case a sighted assistant, might be available you're not doing your job, or at least not doing it well. 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

HH. Smith Jr.
 

Hi,

 

It is insulting to your intelligence, because you’re blind not stupid. You cannot see; therefore, anything above chewing is impossible for you to do.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 6:24 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 02:30 PM, Marianne Denning wrote:

I was working with someone who worked for another blindness company and the person asked me if I had a sighted person who could help.

-
I want someone to explain why this question is offensive.

When you're at a help desk, any help desk, the goal is generally to get a fix as quickly as possible.  There are times where having a sighted assistant can greatly speed things along.  There are times when there really is no substitute for sight when it comes to getting maximum speed and minimum fuss identifying what's happening.  Joseph Lee once said to me, in regard to web browsing, that the sighted (which would include me) see a webpage (but this would apply to anything displaying on a screen) as a gestalt, taking it all in at once, and filtering out the irrelevant versus relevant visually without even realizing you're doing so.  A screen reader user goes element by element through unfamiliar territory and cannot "take it all in at once."  Those are simple facts.

If you don't have access to a sighted assistant, then the answer to that query is, "No, I don't have easy access to a sighted assistant."

Asking whether such is available is not meant, not should it be taken, as a slight to someone who's blind.  I cannot imagine that most in the readership here have not, on multiple occasions, had someone who could see around who could "instantly" identify something you've been struggling with for hours such that you want to scream and rend your garments.  Examples of this completely unrelated to the computer abound, too.  My "value added" most of the time is that I can see something that's, sadly, either not accessible or not accessible quickly and easily and could take a screen reader user hours to find because of how a given program/screen is structured.

If your job is to try to fix an issue as quickly as possible you use all the tools at your disposal, and as a help desk tech there are times where a sighted assistant is a really handy tool to have.  If not available, you try another way, but in many instances it will invariably take much longer.  But if you don't ask whether an optional tool, in this case a sighted assistant, might be available you're not doing your job, or at least not doing it well.  
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: adobe choice?

Stan Holdeman
 

Bot it. Thanks, Bill.

Stan

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 3:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: adobe choice?

 

Hi, Stan. No. Don't download the paid version. I'll post a link for you to only download the free version.

 

http://get.adobe.com/reader

 

Bill White

 

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Stan Holdeman
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 11:16 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: adobe choice?

 

Thanks, Bill, for the tips about McAfee, etc.

 

Now, do I get this right? I will download the 7 day free trial of the Pro version. After 7 days I will decline the pro version and the free reader Is left.

I found this a bit confusing.

 

Stan

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Thursday, March 4, 2021 9:08 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: adobe choice?

 

The only thing I would advise is that, when you download Adobe Reader, unless you explicitly want any of the bundled software, uncheck the following items before downloading,

 

install the free McAfee Security Scan Plus utility to check the status of my PC security. It will not modify existing antivirus program or PC settings.

install McAfee Safe Connect to keep my online activities and personal info private and secure with a single tap.

Install the Acrobat Reader Chrome Extension By checking the above, I agree to the automatic installation of updates for Acrobat Reader Chrome Extension

 

Bill White

 

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Stan Holdeman
Sent: Thursday, March 4, 2021 5:57 PM
To: JFW list (main@jfw.groups.io)
Subject: adobe choice?

 

Listers: After a hard drive change, I need to download an adobe reader. As a jaws user is there some choice of reader that I should be aware of?

 

Maybe all Adobe readers are the same.

 

Thanks, Stan

h


moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 02:23 PM, David Diamond wrote:
Then there was the one who said constantly, “You see the yellow X at the top of your screen, click on that.” I thought and almost vocalized, “What part of I’m blind are you not getting!”
-
By the way, that would be an entirely appropriate response.

If you're on the help desk for individuals who are blind or visually impaired, the use of phrases that include, "see" in the sense of vision should be nowhere in your vocabulary when asking questions of someone you already know can't.  This is not rocket science, nor should it be tolerated.

Dope slaps when people are being dopes are A-OK, and if you have someone who was accidentally being a dope, which happens more often than one might think, their response is generally a prompt apology.  They recognize they've been inappropriate, even if that was the result of an accidental lapse.  Defending the indefensible is never a good idea.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

Cristóbal
 

The blind men and the elephant analogy etc.…

There are times where I may have dropped or misplaced something and instead of deploying my super blindy locator skills, I just call out for my sighted wife instead. Independence be damned…

Same thing with the Internet. I can try troubleshooting something on my screen or just call her over to see what the heck is on my screen that’s giving me such fits. It’s often an overlay pop up or something that’s messing with my screen reader.

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 3:24 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 02:30 PM, Marianne Denning wrote:

I was working with someone who worked for another blindness company and the person asked me if I had a sighted person who could help.

-
I want someone to explain why this question is offensive.

When you're at a help desk, any help desk, the goal is generally to get a fix as quickly as possible.  There are times where having a sighted assistant can greatly speed things along.  There are times when there really is no substitute for sight when it comes to getting maximum speed and minimum fuss identifying what's happening.  Joseph Lee once said to me, in regard to web browsing, that the sighted (which would include me) see a webpage (but this would apply to anything displaying on a screen) as a gestalt, taking it all in at once, and filtering out the irrelevant versus relevant visually without even realizing you're doing so.  A screen reader user goes element by element through unfamiliar territory and cannot "take it all in at once."  Those are simple facts.

If you don't have access to a sighted assistant, then the answer to that query is, "No, I don't have easy access to a sighted assistant."

Asking whether such is available is not meant, not should it be taken, as a slight to someone who's blind.  I cannot imagine that most in the readership here have not, on multiple occasions, had someone who could see around who could "instantly" identify something you've been struggling with for hours such that you want to scream and rend your garments.  Examples of this completely unrelated to the computer abound, too.  My "value added" most of the time is that I can see something that's, sadly, either not accessible or not accessible quickly and easily and could take a screen reader user hours to find because of how a given program/screen is structured.

If your job is to try to fix an issue as quickly as possible you use all the tools at your disposal, and as a help desk tech there are times where a sighted assistant is a really handy tool to have.  If not available, you try another way, but in many instances it will invariably take much longer.  But if you don't ask whether an optional tool, in this case a sighted assistant, might be available you're not doing your job, or at least not doing it well.  
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!

 

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 02:30 PM, Marianne Denning wrote:
I was working with someone who worked for another blindness company and the person asked me if I had a sighted person who could help.
-
I want someone to explain why this question is offensive.

When you're at a help desk, any help desk, the goal is generally to get a fix as quickly as possible.  There are times where having a sighted assistant can greatly speed things along.  There are times when there really is no substitute for sight when it comes to getting maximum speed and minimum fuss identifying what's happening.  Joseph Lee once said to me, in regard to web browsing, that the sighted (which would include me) see a webpage (but this would apply to anything displaying on a screen) as a gestalt, taking it all in at once, and filtering out the irrelevant versus relevant visually without even realizing you're doing so.  A screen reader user goes element by element through unfamiliar territory and cannot "take it all in at once."  Those are simple facts.

If you don't have access to a sighted assistant, then the answer to that query is, "No, I don't have easy access to a sighted assistant."

Asking whether such is available is not meant, not should it be taken, as a slight to someone who's blind.  I cannot imagine that most in the readership here have not, on multiple occasions, had someone who could see around who could "instantly" identify something you've been struggling with for hours such that you want to scream and rend your garments.  Examples of this completely unrelated to the computer abound, too.  My "value added" most of the time is that I can see something that's, sadly, either not accessible or not accessible quickly and easily and could take a screen reader user hours to find because of how a given program/screen is structured.

If your job is to try to fix an issue as quickly as possible you use all the tools at your disposal, and as a help desk tech there are times where a sighted assistant is a really handy tool to have.  If not available, you try another way, but in many instances it will invariably take much longer.  But if you don't ask whether an optional tool, in this case a sighted assistant, might be available you're not doing your job, or at least not doing it well.  
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: language pack question

Richard Turner <richardturner42@...>
 

Madison,
I'm always receiving two copies of your messages.
What I just figured out is that the address for JFW@groups.io and main@jfw.groups.io are the same group.

I tried unsubscribing from the JFW@groups.io and got a message that I was unsubscribing from the main@jfw.groups.io.
The moral of the story is, you only need to send your emails to one address.

I cannot help with the language pack issue.


Richard

Ralph's Observation: It is a mistake to allow any mechanical object<>to realize that you are in a hurry.


My web site, www.turner42.com

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Madison Martin
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 3:03 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: language pack question

Hi all,
I was able to install the language pack for Canadian English, but my dictionary language sometimes still shows up as US English even though I've changed it to Canadian English so many times it's not even funny. If I remove the US English language pack will this solve the problem, and how do I remove a language pack?
I went into options, but couldn't find anything and I couldn't get a context menu either. I'm running the latest build of Windows 10 and Jaws. Thanks for any help!!!
Madison


moderated language pack question

Madison Martin
 

Hi all,
I was able to install the language pack for Canadian English, but my dictionary
language sometimes still shows up as US English even though I've changed it to
Canadian English so many times it's not even funny. If I remove the US English
language pack will this solve the problem, and how do I remove a language pack?
I went into options, but couldn't find anything and I couldn't get a context
menu either. I'm running the latest build of Windows 10 and Jaws. Thanks for any
help!!!
Madison


moderated language pack question

Madison Martin
 

Hi all,
I was able to install the language pack for Canadian English, but my dictionary
language sometimes still shows up as US English even though I've changed it to
Canadian English so many times it's not even funny. If I remove the US English
language pack will this solve the problem, and how do I remove a language pack?
I went into options, but couldn't find anything and I couldn't get a context
menu either. I'm running the latest build of Windows 10 and Jaws. Thanks for any
help!!!
Madison


moderated Ongoing trouble with PayPal

Bill White
 

I just discovered a setting in Microsoft Edge, under the Default Browser category. It is a setting that allows websites to load in "Internet Explorer Mode". Has anyone tried Microsoft Edge with PayPal to see if this resolves the problem of not being able to use PayPal with Microsoft Edge? I do not have a PayPal account, so, cannot check this for myself.

 

Thank you.

 

Bill White

 

billwhite92701@...

 

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