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Re: Are there any NVDA (or WindowEyes) and JAWS "dual users" or people who've used both here?
Londa Peterson
I'm not the most experienced with other screen readers, but I have done some testing. I don't think they're enough the same to help you. I think you'd be better off with a forty minute demo of JAWS. You could also get a 90 day license for JAWS. That might give you enough time to do what you need to.
From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Thanks to all who have taken the time to respond. The main thing I'm trying to do for myself is to get a bit better grip on "what's what" as far as web browsing goes. I frequently use INS+F6, list headings, and INS+F7, list links, with my clients as well as the Navigation Quick Keys. I have never had a good grasp (or I don't think I do, anyway) regarding Forms Mode, Table Navigation, or PlaceMarkers (though the concept for the last one is very clear to me). When you can see it's not nearly so necessary to know the actual structures within HTML that JAWS and other screen readers rely upon to make your navigation of these pages as quick and painless as possible, and I sometimes think that I'm going "around Jake's barn" with regard to web browsers and JAWS because don't have a clear grasp of the above nor Frames or Elements. The whole JAWS Cursor versus PC Cursor is utterly maddening to me because JAWS focus can switch without a corresponding visual move of the information displayed such that it can, for instance, be on a radio button that's not visible on the screen to me, which can make, no pun intended, getting on the same page as my client more than a bit of a challenge. I also wish I had more practice with using the mouse functions without actually using the mouse (although I admit I encourage my clients to use the physical left and right click buttons on the mouse pad on a laptop because they can be easily distinguished via tactile means - I just create a permanent mask over the mousing area itself so that it does not interfere with pointer movement or accidental click activation). If either NVDA or WindowEyes is substantially the same in its handling of these things at least I could get some sense of what might happen in a session as far as possible or probable trouble spots beforehand. Heaven knows I've got enough experience to be able to think on my feet and consult the keystrokes document at relatively high speed, but sometimes a bit of actual practice would probably help me. One of the really tricky things, but one I'm used to, is that there is virtually no sense in even thinking about something as structured as a lesson plan with the clients I work with. Most of the time by the time I'm called in they have a long list of "things I need to be able to do, some tomorrow and many yesterday" that I just walk through with them based on their prioritization of same. This is nothing like teaching a formal class and there are always the bugs one finds in JAWS (with some frequency) and/or technical support issues that unmask themselves as part of the whole process. I really love this work and always want to find ways that I can improve my service delivery. Brian, who still has to "shut JAWS up" when short bursts of really intensive work show up that I really need to do that are unrelated to the client's JAWS goals - I doubt I'll ever get entirely comfortable with the endless narration!
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Re: Amazon's at it again!
James Bentley
I wonder why Amazon doesn’t use one or more secret questions to verify
their customers. My bank and credit card companies use secret questions
and so far have never presented me with a capsha.
However, I took the advice of another
list member and was able to close my browser and go back in and click on the
accesibility link and get signed in to my Amazon account.
Thanks for all of the different post
offering help.
James Bentley
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 4:50 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again! I wonder if it is some kind of antifraud system
that only some people end up triggering? I've found forums online where people
have claimed that online shops randomly deny their order for no apparent good
reason that are false triggerings of such technology. If I ever do get this on
Amazon, does it mean I have to call them up every time I have to place an order?
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Just upgraded to JAWS 17 and have problem ... and planning to move to Windows 10 ...
HAMILTON
Listers:
Yes, I finally bit the bullet! I uninstalled JAWS versions older than V: 16, leaving the common elements, and dove right into the upgrading task. The actual upgrade did not take as long as I was expecting - not upset about that at all! After installing/upgrading to JAWS V: 17, I went into the JAWS utility menu to do all the stuff that the Merge Utility would have done for me. Now, I did not do too badly; but, there seems to be something missing - not sure what/how much yet. To start with, I am able to get into the Settings Centre (Canadian ... eh?), and open Speech Verbosity. Then I can set my Verbosity Level - intermediate. However, when I open Configure Verbosity Levels to set my intermediate settings, I get kicked out of the menu entirely. I end up on the JAWS screen where I could press the alt key to get back into the JAWS menu. Not being one to give up right away, I tried this about 2 more times, with exactly the same result. In fact, I get this result when I press enter on "Customize Punctuation" and "Manage Key Labels ...". Again, I get kicked out of the menu entirely. Some of the "settings" that I have been seeking are likely somewhere in one/both of these menu items, and I surely would like to have these items open appropriately so that I can complete the settings process. Another item, about which I cannot recall which I used previously, is whether it is wise to use "Virtual Ribbons", or not; but, I seem to remember some advice on this list serve about that a few months back. Perhaps, someone could remind me of this. Boy do I miss the Merge Utility! Would someone please try to lead me out of this above wilderness? Thank you. By the way, it is my intention to continue on this "renewal project" by moving to Windows 10. As per earlier JFW listers' instructions, I have removed JAWS versions prior to V: 16, and have tried to run a "repair" on JAWS 16. Unfortunately my syntax was incorrect. Using V: "16.0.4468", could someone please tell me the exact line to use, to perform this repair, in the "run command"? I am using the 64-bit version of JAWS 17 - currently with Windows 8.1; but moving to Windows 10. Thanks much for all your help, not only on this problem, but also on previous issues. Jim H
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Re: place markers
Maria Campbell
Example:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I listen to baseball games on the accessible part of the mlb.com site. I know that the words away and home are right above the daily schedule of games, so I highlight the word away and press the combo of control plus shift plus K to start the permanent place marker process. I choose the offered name of away, tab to anchor the word to text and tab to OK. Now whenever I open the page, I press the letter K to go to place marker, and land on the word away, skipping all that goes before, and voila, I'm on the daily game schedule. I do similarly to many pages I visit often.
On 12/30/2015 4:17 PM, judith bron wrote:
I know I’m late to the ball but can someone explain how place markers --
Sunny Day Maria Campbell lucky1@... Be patient with God: Be patient with yourself: Be patient with others.
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Re: Amazon's at it again!
James Bentley
Hi,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Well, your suggestion did not work for me with Ie but guess what. Your idea worked perfectly fine with Firefox V39. I'm in now. Thank you, James Bentley
-----Original Message-----
From: K Ducat Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 4:46 PM To: jfw@groups.io Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again! I periodically receive the captia message, close the browser, re-open it, click on the Amazon accessible site link, and am able to proceed without the captia. On 12/30/15, James Bentley <bentleyj1952@...> wrote: Hi,
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Re: Amazon's at it again!
Adrian Spratt
James, frustration with website inaccessibility is completely understandable. In this case, I think things will turn out okay.
From: James Bentley [mailto:bentleyj1952@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 5:36 PM To: jfw@groups.io Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!
Hi,
Sorry I bled all over every one. I’ll make the call to Amazon tomorrow.
Many Thanks to you and Gerald for your post.
James Bentley
From: Adrian Spratt Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 4:27 PM To: jfw@groups.io Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!
Companies are always going to be working on their websites for a whole variety of reasons. Amazon is one of the few companies that responds immediately to screenreader users and that tends to fix the problems we experience. For a possibly more constructive way to handle this, see Gerald’s message a few posts ago.
From: James Bentley [mailto:bentleyj1952@...]
I’m also having that same issue. There is a link to click on if you are sight impaired. I tried it. Absolutely no luck with that link for me with J16 and Win7.
This makes me livid with Amazon. Now I have to take my $323.00, order some where else and probably pay more.
Why doesn’t this make some one like the NFB or ACB or Congress or who ever do some thing about this BS. Why can’t Amazon just stop tinkering with their stupid web site. If some thing is working, why fix it.
James Bentley
From: Rayette Rucker Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 2:57 PM To: jfw@groups.io Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!
I'm having that same issue. On 12/30/2015 2:50 PM, Sandra Streeter wrote:
-- Check out my blog www.angellic23.wordpress.com
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Re: Amazon's at it again!
Brent Harding
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I wonder if it is some kind of antifraud system
that only some people end up triggering? I've found forums online where people
have claimed that online shops randomly deny their order for no apparent good
reason that are false triggerings of such technology. If I ever do get this on
Amazon, does it mean I have to call them up every time I have to place an order?
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Re: Amazon's at it again!
Gudrun Brunot
Amazon.com customer service: 866-216-1072
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Gudrun
-----Original Message-----
From: James Bentley [mailto:bentleyj1952@...] Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 2:14 PM To: jfw@groups.io Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again! I’m also having that same issue. There is a link to click on if you are sight impaired. I tried it. Absolutely no luck with that link for me with J16 and Win7. This makes me livid with Amazon. Now I have to take my $323.00, order some where else and probably pay more. Why doesn’t this make some one like the NFB or ACB or Congress or who ever do some thing about this BS. Why can’t Amazon just stop tinkering with their stupid web site. If some thing is working, why fix it. James Bentley From: Rayette Rucker <mailto:ruckerr9@...> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 2:57 PM To: jfw@groups.io Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again! I'm having that same issue. On 12/30/2015 2:50 PM, Sandra Streeter wrote: Hi, everyone! The same issue I wrote about previously with Amazon is recurring: a captia required when signing in, making the site entirely impossible to use. Does anyone have a phone # for Amazon so I can try to resolve this—AGAIN? Thanks! Sandra “To love another person is to see the face of God.” (Les Miserables--the musical) <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> -- Check out my blog www.angellic23.wordpress.com
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Re: Amazon's at it again!
K Ducat
I periodically receive the captia message, close the browser, re-open
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
it, click on the Amazon accessible site link, and am able to proceed without the captia.
On 12/30/15, James Bentley <bentleyj1952@...> wrote:
Hi,
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Re: Amazon's at it again!
James Bentley
Hi,
Sorry I bled all over every one. I’ll make the call to Amazon
tomorrow.
Many Thanks to you and Gerald for your post.
James Bentley
From: Adrian Spratt
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 4:27 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again! Companies are always going to be working on their websites for a whole variety of reasons. Amazon is one of the few companies that responds immediately to screenreader users and that tends to fix the problems we experience. For a possibly more constructive way to handle this, see Gerald’s message a few posts ago.
From:
James Bentley [mailto:bentleyj1952@...]
I’m also having that same issue. There is a link to click on if you are sight impaired. I tried it. Absolutely no luck with that link for me with J16 and Win7.
This makes me livid with Amazon. Now I have to take my $323.00, order some where else and probably pay more.
Why doesn’t this make some one like the NFB or ACB or Congress or who ever do some thing about this BS. Why can’t Amazon just stop tinkering with their stupid web site. If some thing is working, why fix it.
James Bentley
From: Rayette Rucker Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 2:57 PM To: jfw@groups.io Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!
I'm having that same issue. On 12/30/2015 2:50 PM, Sandra Streeter wrote:
-- Check out my blog www.angellic23.wordpress.com
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Re: Amazon's at it again!
Cindy Ray <cindyray@...>
Or you can call Amazon and tell them you are having the problem. Cindy
From: James Bentley [mailto:bentleyj1952@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 4:14 PM To: jfw@groups.io Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!
I’m also having that same issue. There is a link to click on if you are sight impaired. I tried it. Absolutely no luck with that link for me with J16 and Win7.
This makes me livid with Amazon. Now I have to take my $323.00, order some where else and probably pay more.
Why doesn’t this make some one like the NFB or ACB or Congress or who ever do some thing about this BS. Why can’t Amazon just stop tinkering with their stupid web site. If some thing is working, why fix it.
James Bentley
From: Rayette Rucker Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 2:57 PM To: jfw@groups.io Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!
I'm having that same issue. On 12/30/2015 2:50 PM, Sandra Streeter wrote:
-- Check out my blog www.angellic23.wordpress.com
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Re: Amazon's at it again!
Adrian Spratt
Companies are always going to be working on their websites for a whole variety of reasons. Amazon is one of the few companies that responds immediately to screenreader users and that tends to fix the problems we experience. For a possibly more constructive way to handle this, see Gerald’s message a few posts ago.
From: James Bentley [mailto:bentleyj1952@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 5:14 PM To: jfw@groups.io Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!
I’m also having that same issue. There is a link to click on if you are sight impaired. I tried it. Absolutely no luck with that link for me with J16 and Win7.
This makes me livid with Amazon. Now I have to take my $323.00, order some where else and probably pay more.
Why doesn’t this make some one like the NFB or ACB or Congress or who ever do some thing about this BS. Why can’t Amazon just stop tinkering with their stupid web site. If some thing is working, why fix it.
James Bentley
From: Rayette Rucker Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 2:57 PM To: jfw@groups.io Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!
I'm having that same issue. On 12/30/2015 2:50 PM, Sandra Streeter wrote:
-- Check out my blog www.angellic23.wordpress.com
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place markers
judith bron
I know I’m late to the ball but can someone explain how place markers work and how they help you on a web page? Best, Judith
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Re: Amazon's at it again!
James Bentley
I’m also having that same issue. There is a link to click on if you
are sight impaired. I tried it. Absolutely no luck with that link
for me with J16 and Win7.
This makes me livid with Amazon. Now I have to take my $323.00, order
some where else and probably pay more.
Why doesn’t this make some one like the NFB or ACB or Congress or who ever
do some thing about this BS. Why can’t Amazon just stop tinkering with
their stupid web site. If some thing is working, why fix it.
James Bentley
From: Rayette Rucker
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 2:57 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again! I'm
having that same issue. On 12/30/2015 2:50 PM, Sandra Streeter
wrote:
-- Check out my blog www.angellic23.wordpress.com
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Re: Are there any NVDA (or WindowEyes) and JAWS "dual users" or people who've used both here?
Maria Campbell
Brian, you might mess around with the new smart navigation insert X combination of keys introduced with JAWS 17. I'm not convinced that it works that well, but it is supposed to make the web page more like what the sighted see. Sorry, I'm not much of a techie, either, but I truly believe that the navigation system of JAWS is beyond compare. It's the best way I can describe it without being able to go into more detail. However, this thought might simply be based on the fact that I've been using JAWS for quite a long time. It's hard for me to understand how people can switch between WindowEyes and JAWS, with the two systems so differently configured. I could be wrong but NVDA may be closer to JAWS in its application.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I use place markers extensively to jump over unwanted ads, links, frames, etc., once I know the layout of the web page. One regret is, as you say, the seeming inability for my husband and me to be on the same page, so to speak, when I get into trouble, and he can't figure out where the heck I am. The expert on NVDA on the list is Joseph Lee. Perhaps he may chime in with a few of his thoughts.
On 12/30/2015 2:44 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Thanks to all who have taken the time to respond. --
Sunny Day Maria Campbell lucky1@... Be patient with God: Be patient with yourself: Be patient with others.
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Re: Amazon's at it again!
Annabelle Susan Morison
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
1-866-216-1072
From: Sandra Streeter [mailto:sandrastreeter381@...] Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 12:50 PM To: jfw@groups.io Subject: Amazon's at it again! Hi, everyone!
The same issue I wrote about previously with Amazon is recurring: a captia
required when signing in, making the site entirely impossible to use. Does
anyone have a phone # for Amazon so I can try to resolve this—AGAIN?
Thanks!
Sandra “To love another person is to see the face of God.” (Les Miserables--the musical)
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Re: Amazon's at it again!
Gerald Levy
I just signed into my Amazon account and did not encounter any image
captcha, just the usual user-ID and password fields. You can contact
Amazon customer support at 888-280-4331 and explain that you are a blind
customer who is unable to solve the captcha to sign in to your account. You
should be given a key that will allow you to bypass the captcha.
Gerald
From: Rayette Rucker
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 3:57 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again! I'm
having that same issue. On 12/30/2015 2:50 PM, Sandra Streeter
wrote:
-- Check out my blog www.angellic23.wordpress.com
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Re: Are there any NVDA (or WindowEyes) and JAWS "dual users" or people who've used both here?
judith bron
Brian, I sure wish there was someone like you in my area. When I need forms mode on a website or Facebook I hit the spacebar and most of the time it works. Like any human, even though it is a robot, sometimes Jaws has a mind of its own. As for a curriculum for your clients that will never work keep in mind that each client has individual computer needs and expectations from the program. One client might be a book keeper, the next one an editor and the one after that an author. Some might be computer geiks who program and do all the things I can’t even dream about. Good luck, Judith
From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Thanks to all who have taken the time to respond. The main thing I'm trying to do for myself is to get a bit better grip on "what's what" as far as web browsing goes. I frequently use INS+F6, list headings, and INS+F7, list links, with my clients as well as the Navigation Quick Keys. I have never had a good grasp (or I don't think I do, anyway) regarding Forms Mode, Table Navigation, or PlaceMarkers (though the concept for the last one is very clear to me). When you can see it's not nearly so necessary to know the actual structures within HTML that JAWS and other screen readers rely upon to make your navigation of these pages as quick and painless as possible, and I sometimes think that I'm going "around Jake's barn" with regard to web browsers and JAWS because don't have a clear grasp of the above nor Frames or Elements. The whole JAWS Cursor versus PC Cursor is utterly maddening to me because JAWS focus can switch without a corresponding visual move of the information displayed such that it can, for instance, be on a radio button that's not visible on the screen to me, which can make, no pun intended, getting on the same page as my client more than a bit of a challenge. I also wish I had more practice with using the mouse functions without actually using the mouse (although I admit I encourage my clients to use the physical left and right click buttons on the mouse pad on a laptop because they can be easily distinguished via tactile means - I just create a permanent mask over the mousing area itself so that it does not interfere with pointer movement or accidental click activation). If either NVDA or WindowEyes is substantially the same in its handling of these things at least I could get some sense of what might happen in a session as far as possible or probable trouble spots beforehand. Heaven knows I've got enough experience to be able to think on my feet and consult the keystrokes document at relatively high speed, but sometimes a bit of actual practice would probably help me. One of the really tricky things, but one I'm used to, is that there is virtually no sense in even thinking about something as structured as a lesson plan with the clients I work with. Most of the time by the time I'm called in they have a long list of "things I need to be able to do, some tomorrow and many yesterday" that I just walk through with them based on their prioritization of same. This is nothing like teaching a formal class and there are always the bugs one finds in JAWS (with some frequency) and/or technical support issues that unmask themselves as part of the whole process. I really love this work and always want to find ways that I can improve my service delivery. Brian, who still has to "shut JAWS up" when short bursts of really intensive work show up that I really need to do that are unrelated to the client's JAWS goals - I doubt I'll ever get entirely comfortable with the endless narration!
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Re: Amazon's at it again!
Adrian Spratt
I haven’t experienced this CAPTCHA problem at Amazon as of last week, but here’s a phone number that worked for me the last time I called:
866-216-1072
Please let us know what comes of your call.
From: Sandra Streeter [mailto:sandrastreeter381@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 3:50 PM To: jfw@groups.io Subject: Amazon's at it again!
Hi, everyone!
The same issue I wrote about previously with Amazon is recurring: a captia required when signing in, making the site entirely impossible to use. Does anyone have a phone # for Amazon so I can try to resolve this—AGAIN? Thanks!
Sandra
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Re: Amazon's at it again!
Rayette Rucker
I'm having that same issue.
On 12/30/2015 2:50 PM, Sandra Streeter
wrote:
-- Check out my blog www.angellic23.wordpress.com
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