On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 11:11 AM, Gene Warner wrote:
My solution to prevent prying eyes is to hook up an external
keyboard to my laptop, then close the lid.
-
Which is an excellent solution except if you need to be using the laptop with its native keyboard when you're on site, or in a plane, etc.
Another trick if you have to use your laptop in public without an external keyboard, and happen to be using a screen reader that does not have a screen shade/curtain function, is this, recommended by another computer tech when I was trying to find some way to make an old trick I knew for diverting the Windows display work again:
The best idea I have is the use of a dummy display blank, and then configuring windows to only display on that screen.
So plugin something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Headless-Display-Emulator-Headless-1920x1080-Generation/dp/B06XT1Z9TF <https://www.amazon.com/Headless-Display-Emulator-Headless-1920x1080-Generation/dp/B06XT1Z9TF>
Then do this: https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/so...-while-using-external-monitor-ideapad-windows <https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/ht504128-how-to-auto-turn-off-laptop-screen-while-using-external-monitor-ideapad-windows>
If you need local access, unplugging the HDMI dongle will enable the local screen. Remote support software wouldn't care either way.
--
Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t.
*     ~ Lauren Bacall

Greetings:
This information is very much appreciated. However, I have to wonder if it wouldn’t be easier, since you’re going to the Desktop anyway, simply to press Alt F4 and then select the Press Enter (since Shutdown is the default choice here).
Kindly,
Curtis Chong
*From:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Monday, August 08, 2022 9:14 AM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Creating a Desktop Shortcut to Restart Your Computer
1.  Go to the desktop and make certain no item has focus.  Then bring up the context menu, whether by SHIFT+F10 or the Applications/Context Menu key, and select New, Shortcut from that menu.
2. In the Create Shortcut dialog that comes up, in the "Type the location of the item" edit box, enter:  C:\Windows\System32\shutdown.exe /s /r /t 5
then activate the Next button.
3. In the Type a name for this shortcut edit box, enter the name of your choosing.  I tend to just call it something like "Restart in 5 seconds."
4. Activate the Finish button, which will place the shortcut using the name you choose on your desktop.
If you were to want that restart to begin immediately, with no option to cancel, then change that 5 to a zero.  That, or get rid of the "/t 5" entirely and substitute it with "/l".
--
Brian *-*Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t.**
*     ~ Lauren Bacall

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.
     ~ Lauren Bacall

On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 12:47 AM, Sharon S wrote:
The screen shade will stop anyone else using the computer because
none of my family knows how to use Jaws but my nieces will be
disappointed if they can’t see the pictures.
-
If no one else knows how to use JAWS (or unload it at the very least) then the situation you describe is precisely what you'll have.
The very reason for being of the screen shade is to prevent "over the shoulder" viewing, by anyone, when that's what you wish to prevent. Once the screen is off, it's off until you either flip the toggle, unload/exit JAWS, or reboot.
The reboot part may not still be accurate if a setting has been added to make screen shade persistent unless you turn it off, but I have not heard anything about that.  That was my reason for posting a reference to an earlier topic that discussed how to make that happen without a persistent option.
--
Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t.
*     ~ Lauren Bacall

I apologize for sending that last message without a subject.  It shan’t happen again.  Here it is:  In case my last message was ignored, again I apologize for my carelessness.
We forget, computer instructors teaching the blind are mainly working, not on the behalf of the student; as the blind student is not the one who pays his salary.  Rather, he works for an agency. Which is employed by either personal employers or federal or state government agencies. So, instructors are obliged to teach whatever it is those agencies require.  When I received my first computer in 98, I was taught only that which pertained to the job for which my computer and adaptive software was purchased; which had nothing at all to do with the internet, for example.  So, I wasn’t taught to use the primitive internet extant.  Individual needs and preferences change and grow over time; along with individual  computer requirements.  Which is why, I agree with mister  Warner.  Given the limited time allotted for training it would be difficult to teach, both, what employment requires and what recreational things the student would like to learn.  This is why many of us teach ourselves much of what it is we prefer in a recreational sense.    I have a dual challenge.  One of which limits the use of one of my hands.  Two screen readers were taught by my local agency for the blind, Window-eyes and Jaws.  I had no idea concerning the use of either screen reader.  It was left to the expertise of my instructor to decide for me the screen reader which would serve my particular needs, and which would best accommodate my secondary challenge.  Because, I was ignorant.  I, however, was given a choice whether or not to have, installed on my computer, Jaws for dos.  I chose not to have that screen reader installed.  I later regretted that decision.  I wish it had been made for me, and I had learned to use that screen reader.  I would have been much wiser, today about the use of command prompts.  By the way: How does one put on the desktop a shortcut for restarting the computer? Knowing more about command prompts would allow me to understand how this might be accomplished; without having to ask you fine people such a question.  But, using such a desktop shortcut might come in handy on occasion.  There is always time for us to learn what it is we prefer on our own.
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You evade my point.  I'm not interested in the history of your course experience.  I refer only to your rudeness.  Who are you to call Brian "a lousy instructor".  Shame on you.  Get over yourself and, if you can't express yourself in a more courteous way, get offf this list.
Don
-----Original Message----- From: Gene Warner
Sent: Sunday, August 7, 2022 8:47 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Locking the mouse buttons:
You see what you want to see, I do not feel I was being rude, I was
being honest because I've been there.
A rehab instructor who was supposed to teach the basics of using a
screen reader did that to everyone in the class I was in. It left most,
if not all, of us confused because we had no idea what we needed to
learn to get started other than everything. So most of us could not
answer his question with anything other than a "I don't know". It was
not a very comfortable situation.
Several months later when I attended an alumni Christmas party I learned
that more than half of that class never returned just like I did and
that that instructor was no longer employed there, he was terminated
soon after I left. I can only guess that many of the other students in
that class complained about him.
Now maybe Brian was teaching an intermediate or advanced level class in
which case his approach would have been appropriate, but that approach
is not appropriate when your students don't know what they need to learn
yet.
Before you can run, you must first learn to walk.
Gene...
On 8/7/2022 10:03 PM, Don Walls wrote:

Harsh!  Do you really need to be so rude?  It seems reasonable that an instructor ask a student about the student's goals and needs.

Don

-----Original Message----- From: Gene Warner
Sent: Sunday, August 7, 2022 2:22 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Locking the mouse buttons:

You are right, I wouldn't want you as an instructor because you would be
a lousy one. The class was supposed to be a class on using JAWS. If you
can't teach that without needing the student to tell you what his goal
is, you have no business being an instructor.

Gene...


On 8/7/2022 5:13 PM, David Diamond wrote:

I think in this case the sighted person did not draw the client out and the client did not tell the teacher exactly what she needed to learn. Sorry, some people’s communication skills are lacking.  The enquirer doesn’t know how to draw the person out and the student doesn’t know how to communicate properly what they want.  Then there is the other thought, audio skills are lacking as well, I E the teacher is not listening to his or her student.  Indirectly related. A person asked me a question and I did not understand what he wanted, I asked for clarification and all he said was, “The question is clear enough.” If it was clear enough, I’d not have to ask.  Smile. A good teacher should know how to draw their students out, not asking or giving vague questions or answers.  If a blind person asks where something is in a store, the person they ask should not say, “Over there or, over that way.” True they’ve answered the question however not in a way that the blind person can understand.

*From:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Brian Vogel
*Sent:* August 7, 2022 1:14 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: Locking the mouse buttons:

On Sun, Aug 7, 2022 at 02:10 PM, Gene Warner wrote:

    Totally agree! After I lost my vision, I signed up for a JAWS class
    at the local Lighthouse for the blind, the instructor was sighted
    and his method of instruction was to ask, "What do you want to learn?"

-
Well, then, you'd definitely not want me as an instructor, either. Most of my clients are adults who have lost their vision as adults. I am there to instruct on using a screen reader, but I find that allowing the client to choose what they want to do/learn while learning the screen reader is best left up to them.  I can't know what programs a given client might want to use or, if trying to teach screen reader skills with a web browser, what it is they'd prefer to read, research, etc.

One of the things I have had the hardest time getting certain field counselors in the Virginia Department for the Blind and Visually Impaired to understand is that you cannot teach how to use a screen reader as a stand alone thing.  A screen reader has, as its reason for being, accessing something else.  And I'd rather the client tell me, at least for the most part, what the "something elses" are in their lives.

I can't even begin to imagine what, "What do you want to learn?," even means when it comes to instructing on a screen reader since they don't function in isolation.  I interpret it as, "What do you need or want to learn how to use with a screen reader?"  And I want my students to tell me that, and I'll focus accordingly.
--

Brian *-*Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.**
*     ~ Lauren Bacall

You see what you want to see, I do not feel I was being rude, I was being honest because I've been there.

A rehab instructor who was supposed to teach the basics of using a screen reader did that to everyone in the class I was in. It left most, if not all, of us confused because we had no idea what we needed to learn to get started other than everything. So most of us could not answer his question with anything other than a "I don't know". It was not a very comfortable situation.

Several months later when I attended an alumni Christmas party I learned that more than half of that class never returned just like I did and that that instructor was no longer employed there, he was terminated soon after I left. I can only guess that many of the other students in that class complained about him.

Now maybe Brian was teaching an intermediate or advanced level class in which case his approach would have been appropriate, but that approach is not appropriate when your students don't know what they need to learn yet.

Before you can run, you must first learn to walk.

Gene...

On 8/7/2022 10:03 PM, Don Walls wrote:

Harsh!  Do you really need to be so rude?  It seems reasonable that an instructor ask a student about the student's goals and needs.

Don

-----Original Message----- From: Gene Warner
Sent: Sunday, August 7, 2022 2:22 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Locking the mouse buttons:

You are right, I wouldn't want you as an instructor because you would be
a lousy one. The class was supposed to be a class on using JAWS. If you
can't teach that without needing the student to tell you what his goal
is, you have no business being an instructor.

Gene...


On 8/7/2022 5:13 PM, David Diamond wrote:

I think in this case the sighted person did not draw the client out and the client did not tell the teacher exactly what she needed to learn. Sorry, some people’s communication skills are lacking.  The enquirer doesn’t know how to draw the person out and the student doesn’t know how to communicate properly what they want.  Then there is the other thought, audio skills are lacking as well, I E the teacher is not listening to his or her student.  Indirectly related.  A person asked me a question and I did not understand what he wanted, I asked for clarification and all he said was, “The question is clear enough.” If it was clear enough, I’d not have to ask.  Smile. A good teacher should know how to draw their students out, not asking or giving vague questions or answers.  If a blind person asks where something is in a store, the person they ask should not say, “Over there or, over that way.” True they’ve answered the question however not in a way that the blind person can understand.

*From:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Brian Vogel
*Sent:* August 7, 2022 1:14 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: Locking the mouse buttons:

On Sun, Aug 7, 2022 at 02:10 PM, Gene Warner wrote:

    Totally agree! After I lost my vision, I signed up for a JAWS class
    at the local Lighthouse for the blind, the instructor was sighted
    and his method of instruction was to ask, "What do you want to learn?"

-
Well, then, you'd definitely not want me as an instructor, either.  Most of my clients are adults who have lost their vision as adults.  I am there to instruct on using a screen reader, but I find that allowing the client to choose what they want to do/learn while learning the screen reader is best left up to them.  I can't know what programs a given client might want to use or, if trying to teach screen reader skills with a web browser, what it is they'd prefer to read, research, etc.

One of the things I have had the hardest time getting certain field counselors in the Virginia Department for the Blind and Visually Impaired to understand is that you cannot teach how to use a screen reader as a stand alone thing.  A screen reader has, as its reason for being, accessing something else.  And I'd rather the client tell me, at least for the most part, what the "something elses" are in their lives.

I can't even begin to imagine what, "What do you want to learn?," even means when it comes to instructing on a screen reader since they don't function in isolation.  I interpret it as, "What do you need or want to learn how to use with a screen reader?"  And I want my students to tell me that, and I'll focus accordingly.
-- 

Brian *-*Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.**
*     ~ Lauren Bacall

Harsh! Do you really need to be so rude? It seems reasonable that an instructor ask a student about the student's goals and needs.

Don

-----Original Message----- From: Gene Warner
Sent: Sunday, August 7, 2022 2:22 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Locking the mouse buttons:

You are right, I wouldn't want you as an instructor because you would be
a lousy one. The class was supposed to be a class on using JAWS. If you
can't teach that without needing the student to tell you what his goal
is, you have no business being an instructor.

Gene...


On 8/7/2022 5:13 PM, David Diamond wrote:

I think in this case the sighted person did not draw the client out and the client did not tell the teacher exactly what she needed to learn. Sorry, some people’s communication skills are lacking. The enquirer doesn’t know how to draw the person out and the student doesn’t know how to communicate properly what they want. Then there is the other thought, audio skills are lacking as well, I E the teacher is not listening to his or her student. Indirectly related. A person asked me a question and I did not understand what he wanted, I asked for clarification and all he said was, “The question is clear enough.” If it was clear enough, I’d not have to ask. Smile. A good teacher should know how to draw their students out, not asking or giving vague questions or answers. If a blind person asks where something is in a store, the person they ask should not say, “Over there or, over that way.” True they’ve answered the question however not in a way that the blind person can understand.

*From:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Brian Vogel
*Sent:* August 7, 2022 1:14 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: Locking the mouse buttons:

On Sun, Aug 7, 2022 at 02:10 PM, Gene Warner wrote:

Totally agree! After I lost my vision, I signed up for a JAWS class
at the local Lighthouse for the blind, the instructor was sighted
and his method of instruction was to ask, "What do you want to learn?"

-
Well, then, you'd definitely not want me as an instructor, either. Most of my clients are adults who have lost their vision as adults. I am there to instruct on using a screen reader, but I find that allowing the client to choose what they want to do/learn while learning the screen reader is best left up to them. I can't know what programs a given client might want to use or, if trying to teach screen reader skills with a web browser, what it is they'd prefer to read, research, etc.

One of the things I have had the hardest time getting certain field counselors in the Virginia Department for the Blind and Visually Impaired to understand is that you cannot teach how to use a screen reader as a stand alone thing. A screen reader has, as its reason for being, accessing something else. And I'd rather the client tell me, at least for the most part, what the "something elses" are in their lives.

I can't even begin to imagine what, "What do you want to learn?," even means when it comes to instructing on a screen reader since they don't function in isolation. I interpret it as, "What do you need or want to learn how to use with a screen reader?" And I want my students to tell me that, and I'll focus accordingly.
--

Brian *-*Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t.**
* ~ Lauren Bacall

"keep yer mitts off" approach is both easier and safer.  Perhaps however, when I was growing up and used a magnification device, my family would literally stand about 10 feet behind me and read what I was looking at.  Going as far as to make comments. One blind parent, his children would constantly mute the sound because they did not know how to turn jaws off.   

Truly, the easiest way is to forbid the use of your computer and enforce it.

Kids are both very clever and very determined, not to mention what non-assistive-technology users can screw up on a machine of an AT user are just too many to mention.

I have a lot of clients where not only may their kids, grandkids, etc., not use their computers but their respective spouses are forbidden as well.  It can, and generally does, save a lot of heartache.

If you absolutely can't go that route, then I would create a separate Windows 10 user account, with only standard permissions (not admin), and turn on parental controls for it and make sure that's the account that's logged on prior to the kids sitting down at the machine.  But, personally, I believe the "keep yer mitts off" approach is both easier and safer.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.
     ~ Lauren Bacall

Just so that toggle for the JAWS Screen Shade is included in this topic which directly references the function, it is:  JAWS Key + Space, F11

See this topic from May 2018 on this very group, that was entitled screen curtain, from approximately the time that the feature was introduced if you want more background.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.
     ~ Lauren Bacall