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Re: Teaching the use of screen readers:
On Sun, Aug 7, 2022 at 11:53 PM, Mark wrote:
But is there a user-friendly way for JAWS users to independently determine the level of a given keystroke?- Not exactly, but you can ferret it out relatively easily. Screen reader commands (ignoring quick navigation shortcuts in web browsing and the like) always involve the use of the screen reader's modifier key, whatever that may be for the desktop or laptop keyboard layout. Distinguishing the others is more of a thought exercise. If you use the same keyboard shortcut literally everywhere, including within an application program but also outside of it when working with Windows, it is virtually certain to be a Windows keyboard shortcut. Selection, Cut, Copy, and Paste functions, even when you're doing them in an application program, are handled by system calls to Windows to actually perform the action. Cut is CTRL + X everywhere, Copy is CTRL + C everywhere, and paste is CTRL + V everywhere. These are Windows keyboard shortcuts. Contrast that with, say, CTRL + D to bring up the Font Dialog in MS-Word. If you hit CTRL + D when focus is on the desktop, it does nothing. If you hit CTRL + D when you're in Notepad, it does nothing (other than give you an error tone). Since there are just so darned many keyboard shortcuts that are specific to various application programs, it's almost impossible to even think of how long that list would be. But if you use those shortcuts only in those programs, to get specific actions to occur in those programs, then they are Application Program shortcuts. So thinking about the scope of where a specific keyboard shortcut can be used, and if that shortcut does not involve a screen reader modifier key, is the easiest "quick and dirty" way to have a very good sense of whether it's more likely a Windows keyboard shortcut or a shortcut for the application you happen to be working with. You have to remember that any application is likely to directly access Windows functions from within, such as Cut, Copy, Paste, Save, Save As, Open, and the list goes on and on, but the keyboard shortcuts to achieve these tend to be the same across many different application programs rather than specific to them. Think about how many programs use ALT + F, S, for Save and ALT + F, A, for Save As. They're calling out to Windows, "Hey, give me a Save/Save As Dialog Here!" They're not doing it themselves. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044 Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t. |
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Re: Creating a Desktop Shortcut to Restart Your Computer
Mike Pietruk
Ditto to your last comment, Glenn.
I'm never on the desktop unless I specificly move to it. Probably has something to do with how we use our PCs as Gene has no issues with this. but, it's easy enough to get to the desktop so this is not a practical thing to worry about. |
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Re: Creating a Desktop Shortcut to Restart Your Computer
K0LNY
That is the oddity I've noticed, even when I have closed everything, the
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computer is never focused on the desktop until I move there with windows M or windows D. Glenn ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Warner" <genewarner3@...> To: <main@jfw.groups.io> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2022 11:11 AM Subject: Re: Creating a Desktop Shortcut to Restart Your Computer When I am ready to shut down, I always exit any applications I might have running so when it comes time to hit Alt+F4 I'm on the desktop. Gene... On 8/8/2022 11:44 AM, Brian Vogel wrote: On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 11:40 AM, Kevin Minor wrote: |
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Re: Creating a Desktop Shortcut to Restart Your Computer
Gene Warner
When I am ready to shut down, I always exit any applications I might have running so when it comes time to hit Alt+F4 I'm on the desktop.
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Gene... On 8/8/2022 11:44 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 11:40 AM, Kevin Minor wrote: |
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Re: Screen shade tips:
Gene Warner
Unfortunately for me, my hearing is not the best so I can't run Eloquence fast enough to make it unintelligible to other people.
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Gene... On 8/8/2022 11:39 AM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:
Listening ears can often be cured by using Eloquence fairly fast, and most |
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Re: Creating a Desktop Shortcut to Restart Your Computer
Mike Pietruk
Glenn
Same here. I have to be at the desktop for alt+f4 to bring up that menu. |
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Re: Screen shade tips:
K0LNY
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Well if it has an audio port, it will work, as I
can do it with an HDMI to VGA converter.
I can just never find out if these "dummy" devices
have an audio port like the HDMI to VGA does.
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2022 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: Screen shade tips: Can you tell if this dummy HDMI has an audio port?- HDMI stands for High-Definition Multimedia Interface and, as such, has all of the bits "rolled into one," including video and audio. You'd have to try it and see, but since HDMI generally takes everything down its pipe, it would probably work. But never having tried precisely what you'd like to do, I'd have to experiment with it just as you will to confirm or refute. If you happen to have an HDMI cable that connects to something else in the house, most likely a TV, but not necessarily, you could experiment using that. Once the HDMI pipeline is in place what you can do with an active one should be the same whether it's a real one or a dummy. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build
19044 Here
is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re
alive, it isn’t. |
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Re: Screen shade tips:
On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 11:25 AM, Gene Warner wrote:
What concerns me more than prying eyes is listening ears.- And that's where either a conventional headset, bluetooth earbuds, or bluetooth compatible hearing aids are a godsend. But I agree that if you're someone who can listen to a synth going at lightning speed, and I know many blind users who do just that, the probability that any listening ears beyond those with that same skillset understanding anything is very small indeed. I have still never been able to wrap my head around a synth speaking at well above double the normal human speech rate, and have had various clients I'm assisting with technical (as opposed to screen reader) problems slow down rates when I want to be able to understand what the screen reader is saying based upon what I am doing. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044 Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t. |
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Re: Screen shade tips:
On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 11:35 AM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:
Can you tell if this dummy HDMI has an audio port?- HDMI stands for High-Definition Multimedia Interface and, as such, has all of the bits "rolled into one," including video and audio. You'd have to try it and see, but since HDMI generally takes everything down its pipe, it would probably work. But never having tried precisely what you'd like to do, I'd have to experiment with it just as you will to confirm or refute. If you happen to have an HDMI cable that connects to something else in the house, most likely a TV, but not necessarily, you could experiment using that. Once the HDMI pipeline is in place what you can do with an active one should be the same whether it's a real one or a dummy. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044 Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t. |
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Re: Creating a Desktop Shortcut to Restart Your Computer
On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 11:40 AM, Kevin Minor wrote:
Another way to get to the SHUTDOWN/RESTART Windows is hitting WINDOWS+X.- And add a U right after you've hit that WinKey + X, and you've got focus on what amounts to the classic shutdown menu choices. I love topics like this one simply because they demonstrate, vividly, that Microsoft generally gives many roads to any proverbial Rome. Pick among them for the one that suits you best. I'd forgotten about the WinKey + X route entirely. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044 Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t. |
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Re: Creating a Desktop Shortcut to Restart Your Computer
K0LNY
Yeah, I use windows 7.
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I boot to 10, and then launch windows 7 in a virtual machine. Glenn ----- Original Message -----
From: "Curtis Chong" <chong.curtis@...> To: <main@jfw.groups.io> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2022 10:36 AM Subject: Re: Creating a Desktop Shortcut to Restart Your Computer Hello: " So sometimes I just tap the windows key and left arrow to shutdown and enter." Strangely, this does not work for me in Windows 10. And yes, the focus really does need to be on the Desktop before you can push Alt F4 to invoke the Shutdown dialog. You could also be focused on the Taskbar, too, and this would work. Best, Curtis Chong -----Original Message----- From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny Sent: Monday, August 08, 2022 9:30 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Creating a Desktop Shortcut to Restart Your Computer Strangely, alt + F4 only works for me when I'm actually focused on the desktop, even with all other things closed out, alt + F4 does nothing here until I do windows M, then I can alt F4 to close windows. So sometimes I just tap the windows key and left arrow to shutdown and enter. Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Warner" <genewarner3@...> To: <main@jfw.groups.io> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2022 10:16 AM Subject: Re: Creating a Desktop Shortcut to Restart Your Computer Alt+F4 is what I do, for one thing you don't have to first locate the shortcut to use it so it's much quicker. Gene... On 8/8/2022 11:14 AM, Curtis Chong wrote: Greetings: |
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Re: Creating a Desktop Shortcut to Restart Your Computer
On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 11:37 AM, Curtis Chong wrote:
And yes, the focus really does need to be on the Desktop before you can push Alt F4 to invoke the Shutdown dialog.- Or anything else, really, that you don't want to be applied to the thing that has focus "by default" when you happen to land on the desktop. That's one of the reasons, in the instructions I posted at the outset, that I emphasized that you needed to be certain that nothing on the desktop was selected/had focus. Just the desktop itself, as in that state Windows interprets itself as acting either on Windows (if we're talking about ALT + F4 for shutdown) or the desktop folder itself (if we're talking about creating a new desktop shortcut). -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044 Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t. |
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Re: Creating a Desktop Shortcut to Restart Your Computer
Kevin Minor
Hi.
Another way to get to the SHUTDOWN/RESTART Windows is hitting WINDOWS+X.
This is what I use.
Kevin, Valerie and Jilly
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, August 8, 2022 11:22 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Creating a Desktop Shortcut to Restart Your Computer
I can't disagree with you gentlemen, at all. But there seems to be a contingent that loves to use desktop shortcuts. I've created these for Restart, Immediate Shutdown, and similar although I never use them myself. Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044 Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t. |
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Re: Screen shade tips:
K0LNY
Listening ears can often be cured by using Eloquence fairly fast, and most
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non screenreader users will dismiss it as noise. Those human sounding voices lend itself to being listened to by anyone. BTW, do you should not tell secrets on a farm? corn has ears potatoes have eyes, and beanstalk. ☺ ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Warner" <genewarner3@...> To: <main@jfw.groups.io> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2022 10:25 AM Subject: Re: Screen shade tips: True, in those situations I'll either turn on the screen shade or turn the screen brightness all the way down. But I travel so rarely that I don't really need to worry about those situations. What concerns me more than prying eyes is listening ears. Gene... On 8/8/2022 11:18 AM, Brian Vogel wrote: On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 11:11 AM, Gene Warner wrote: |
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Re: Creating a Desktop Shortcut to Restart Your Computer
Curtis Chong
Hello:
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" So sometimes I just tap the windows key and left arrow to shutdown and enter." Strangely, this does not work for me in Windows 10. And yes, the focus really does need to be on the Desktop before you can push Alt F4 to invoke the Shutdown dialog. You could also be focused on the Taskbar, too, and this would work. Best, Curtis Chong -----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny Sent: Monday, August 08, 2022 9:30 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Creating a Desktop Shortcut to Restart Your Computer Strangely, alt + F4 only works for me when I'm actually focused on the desktop, even with all other things closed out, alt + F4 does nothing here until I do windows M, then I can alt F4 to close windows. So sometimes I just tap the windows key and left arrow to shutdown and enter. Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Warner" <genewarner3@...> To: <main@jfw.groups.io> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2022 10:16 AM Subject: Re: Creating a Desktop Shortcut to Restart Your Computer Alt+F4 is what I do, for one thing you don't have to first locate the shortcut to use it so it's much quicker. Gene... On 8/8/2022 11:14 AM, Curtis Chong wrote: Greetings: |
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Re: Creating a Desktop Shortcut to Restart Your Computer
Gene Warner
The last version of Windows that had shutdown on the start menu was Window 7, pressing the windows key in Windows 10 gets you the search box.
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Gene... On 8/8/2022 11:30 AM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:
Strangely, alt + F4 only works for me when I'm actually focused on the |
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Re: Screen shade tips:
K0LNY
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Brian,
Can you tell if this dummy HDMI has an audio
port?
I want an HDMI dummy with an audio port for Roku
type of devices, to make a pocket size TV.
Currently I'm doing this with an HDMI to VGA that
has audio out, but it uses a short cable that I fold in half, but an HDMI dummy
would be better if it has audio out.
I've asked for this information on the Amazon.com
site on these, but nobody ever answered my question.
Glenn ----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2022 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: Screen shade tips: My solution to prevent prying eyes is to hook up an external keyboard to my laptop, then close the lid.- Which is an excellent solution except if you need to be using the laptop with its native keyboard when you're on site, or in a plane, etc. Another trick if you have to use your laptop in public without an external keyboard, and happen to be using a screen reader that does not have a screen shade/curtain function, is this, recommended by another computer tech when I was trying to find some way to make an old trick I knew for diverting the Windows display work again: The best idea I have is the use of a dummy display blank, and then configuring windows to only display on that screen. So plugin something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Headless-Display-Emulator-Headless-1920x1080-Generation/dp/B06XT1Z9TF Then do this: https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/so...-while-using-external-monitor-ideapad-windows If you need local access, unplugging the HDMI dongle will enable the local screen. Remote support software wouldn't care either way. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build
19044 Here
is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re
alive, it isn’t. |
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Re: Locking the mouse buttons:
On Sun, Aug 7, 2022 at 07:14 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
That's not what this instructor did, he assumed that you already knew the basics even though the class was labeled as a beginning JAWS class.- And that you, or anyone, cannot conceive that the question, "What do you want to learn?," could (and I would presume, did) have an implied, "to work with using JAWS," as part of it shows a huge lack of imagination. An ill-phrased question happens all the time. A group of students coming back with, "What do you mean by that, exactly?," would likely have resulted in a clarification if the instructor was interested in instructing and decent at their job. I took what you wrote, and exactly what you wrote, in message #99651, at face value. And there is nothing in it to indicate that you made any effort, as an adult student, to seek any clarification. You stated, and I quote: ", , ,I signed up for a JAWS class at the local Lighthouse for the blind, the instructor was sighted and his method of instruction was to ask, "What do you want to learn?" I never went back to that class and learned JAWS on my own . . .," in that message. There's nothing there that even vaguely suggests that you did anything but pack up your things and go home. That gives you zero insight into how that class may have gone afterward and then you proceed to ascribe actual actions to an instructor whose class you did not complete. Again: No. Hell No. What you offered since, and well after that initial post, sheds more light. But none of us here are mind readers and all we have to go on at a given point in time is what you have explicitly stated. And you need to own responsibility for that. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044 Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t. |
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Re: Creating a Desktop Shortcut to Restart Your Computer
K0LNY
Strangely, alt + F4 only works for me when I'm actually focused on the
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desktop, even with all other things closed out, alt + F4 does nothing here until I do windows M, then I can alt F4 to close windows. So sometimes I just tap the windows key and left arrow to shutdown and enter. Glenn ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Warner" <genewarner3@...> To: <main@jfw.groups.io> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2022 10:16 AM Subject: Re: Creating a Desktop Shortcut to Restart Your Computer Alt+F4 is what I do, for one thing you don't have to first locate the shortcut to use it so it's much quicker. Gene... On 8/8/2022 11:14 AM, Curtis Chong wrote: Greetings: |
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Re: Creating a Desktop Shortcut to Restart Your Computer
K0LNY
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I suppose that since it is a shortcut, we could
apply a shortcut key, such as control alt and another key that isn't used
normally.
Glenn ----- Original Message -----
From: Curtis
Chong
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2022 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: Creating a Desktop Shortcut to Restart Your
Computer Greetings:
This information is very much appreciated. However, I have to wonder if it wouldn’t be easier, since you’re going to the Desktop anyway, simply to press Alt F4 and then select the Press Enter (since Shutdown is the default choice here).
Kindly,
Curtis Chong
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Brian Vogel
1. Go to the desktop and make certain no item has focus. Then bring up the context menu, whether by SHIFT+F10 or the Applications/Context Menu key, and select New, Shortcut from that menu. 2. In the Create Shortcut dialog that comes up, in the "Type the location of the item" edit box, enter: C:\Windows\System32\shutdown.exe /s /r /t 5 then activate the Next button. 3. In the Type a name for this shortcut edit box, enter the name of your choosing. I tend to just call it something like "Restart in 5 seconds." 4. Activate the Finish button, which will place the shortcut using the name you choose on your desktop.
-- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044 Here is a test
to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it
isn’t. |
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