Date   

Re: accessible anti-virus programs

Dennis L <dennisl1982@...>
 

I’m on windows7

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 11:35 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: accessible anti-virus programs

 

Windows Defender (if you use Windows 10), it’s already part of Windows, free and works just fine.

 

Regards,

Sieghard

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis L
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 2:24 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: accessible anti-virus programs

 

What are accessible anti-virus programs with jaws?


Entire grid being read out by JAWS 18 in WPF application when first field is focused

eli.klein@...
 

We are building a 508 compliant WPF application, and one thing we found was that TextBlocks in every cell of the same Grid are being read off when the first item is selected. Also, it does not work if you are using 'shift' + 'tab' to move selection backwards, only when you use 'tab' alone and move forward. I tested if it was somehow a property of Grids by making a sample application with a Grid and TextBlocks in the columns and rows and selecting the upper left cell, and that did not make JAWS read all items on the Grid. So I don't think it is a general property of the Grid in WPF. Does anyone have any idea why this is happening? And also how to stop it would be nice.


Re: Questions concerning Thunderbird

 

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 06:59 pm, James Bentley wrote:
What I am hoping for is for the message headers to read the same way that they did in WLM.

 P.S.:  If you're not against asking for sighted help on principle it is faster, much faster, to do the rearranging of the order via mouse-driven drag and drop and the addition of columns via right-clicking on the headings row and selecting/deselecting the columns you'd like to have displayed.

The logistics of doing this with a screen reader is just far more time consuming, so if you have a willing assistant and speed is of the essence then I'd definitely go that route.
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


Re: Questions concerning Thunderbird

 

James,

         Oh, that you can definitely do.  When I was playing around with this a while ago when a question like this came up before I had rearranged mine to something very similar to what you list.  I can't even recall what the original order was and I know that I added the status column so that the screen reader would read either "Read" or "Unread" because the questioner back then wanted that desperately.

          By the way the date itself is a date time stamp.  If the message is from today it's only the time but once it's past today's date the full date/time stamp with the date showing first, but all in the same column.
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


Re: Questions concerning Thunderbird

James Bentley
 

What I am hoping for is for the message headers to read the same way that they did in WLM.

atachment,unread, from, subject, date, and time.

James B


On 5/16/2017 8:49 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
James,

           If what you're looking for is the actual date-time stamp of when the message was sent I do not see anything that matches that description or even hints at it.  This could be buried somewhere in the message header, but I doubt you want to wade through those.

           What I'm suggesting is that you can actually plow through the available columns in Thunderbird to see what's available.  If something's there that you want, if you do the NVDA-to-JAWS keystroke translation (which is generally pretty close, particularly if some of what's described isn't really the screen reader, but either Windows or Thunderbird commands) you can take a look at what your options are, add or remove the columns you'd like to display, and even reorder their order if you so desire.
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.



Re: Questions concerning Thunderbird

 

James,

           If what you're looking for is the actual date-time stamp of when the message was sent I do not see anything that matches that description or even hints at it.  This could be buried somewhere in the message header, but I doubt you want to wade through those.

           What I'm suggesting is that you can actually plow through the available columns in Thunderbird to see what's available.  If something's there that you want, if you do the NVDA-to-JAWS keystroke translation (which is generally pretty close, particularly if some of what's described isn't really the screen reader, but either Windows or Thunderbird commands) you can take a look at what your options are, add or remove the columns you'd like to display, and even reorder their order if you so desire.
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


locked Re: Abuse in the "digests"!

Dave...
 


Thanks for your insight. Muting this topic now.
 
Dave
Oregonian, woodworker, Engineer, Musician, and Pioneer
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 17:55
Subject: `]RE: Abuse in the "digests"!

Jaws wasn’t even a glimmer in the Founders’ eye.  Heck!  Back in those days Braille was either not invented yet or the blind in general were a useless population capable of doing, knowing or a`        `ccomplishing anything. 

Today every kind of hatred or dislike is considered racist when most of the population doesn’t even know what racism is. 

For those of you literalist who don’t agree with a JFW monitor are aware that mixing a handicapped issue like adaptive software for the blind with a serious political issue is like writing an English thesis comparing apples and oranges?  Monitors for a long, complicated technology based support list is a tedious never ending task. Every now and then word goes out on the list asking for volunteers to replace our current person (or is it a staff?) that so many disapprove of.  I haven’t seen (or is it heard?_ of this huge non-existant list.  So will all the more educated, more “fair” and super-humans with 25 hour days to devote to this “volunteer?” position please step up to the plate and show us all how it can be done?    

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 5:20 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Abuse in the "digests"!

 

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 02:16 pm, Mich Verrier wrote:

having not followed this thread in full

 And therein lie most of the problems on many of these forums.  Including most of the sturm und drang today.

Calling what has occurred abuse is beyond ridiculous.   Adults sometimes have heated disagreements and most of them manage to get through them without resorting to the fainting couch.

Would that more might try that approach.
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


Re: Questions concerning Thunderbird

James Bentley
 

OK, please let me just be sure that I understand what you are suggesting.
 
I think that you are saying that the “date” column is there but it will either take eye sight or a skilled screen reader user to make it visible to Jaws.
 
Brian, thanks as always,
 
James B
 
 
 

Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: Questions concerning Thunderbird
 
James,

          I know that JAWS supports the same drag and drop commands as are supported in NVDA exist in JAWS, but I don't have my keystrokes documents handy at the moment to find 'em.

--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


locked Re: jaws 18 and password fields?

judith bron
 

I guess I'm one of those who has a bad type or mobility issues. However the only place I encounter these problems is with typing passwords. Perhaps this is an issue JFW should address since there are many of us who do just fine personally and professionally with this important issu being the source of our problemse. Judith

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 1:13 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws 18 and password fields?

Your a lost cause...
On 5/15/2017 10:06 PM, James Homuth wrote:
Then pay attention to what you're typing, or use a password manager.
Seriously, people who's only problem is mobility issues or bad typing
seem to do just fine. Why does blindness suddenly mean they can't?

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Randy Barnett
Sent: May-16-17 12:57 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws 18 and password fields?

Jaws will not voice the characters as you type in a password field. So
if you have issues with motor function or just a really bad type you
dont know if you typed the wrong letter. Until you get the entered
invalid password error. and a lot of sites block you after 3 failures...
I can see how this would be frustrating for someone with this issue.
On 5/15/2017 9:46 PM, James Homuth wrote:
So why can't you start over if you've pressed the wrong keys now?

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
netbat66
Sent: May-16-17 12:40 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws 18 and password fields?

yes, thats what win eyes does. it still shows stars on the screen but
will speak the keys i press. so i can at least start over if i press
the wrong keys.
as i said i am at home with only me, myself and i.

-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Barnett
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 9:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws 18 and password fields?

I dont think he wants his password in clear text. I think he wants
Jaws to echo the characters as he types them. The screen would still
show stars and the speech history would also... It really isnt as big
a deal as you all seem to think.
On 5/15/2017 9:08 PM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:
What he means is that the iPhone of course will echo the character
as you first touch it, once you lift your finger and it is typed it
will say bullet or whatever it is it says, but obviously with a
touch screen you do need to know what letter you are on.
Theoretically if you didn't have a headset and somebody was standing
next to you and was paying attention they could remember what they
hear, but it's pretty easy in such a situation to swipe your finger
around the screen a bit so Voiceover speaks multiple letters of
numbers before you enter the one you want. I guess you can use a
headset with Jaws, but what he wants is for the password to be
"visible" and that is not at all the same as the iPhone saying what
letter you are on because as soon as you type the password it does
not read/echo it back and it is not visible on the screen. If you
want to compare the iPhone saying what character you touch when you
first touch it that would be like somebody
watching over your shoulder what keys you press on a keyboard.
Regards,
Sieghard

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
James Homuth
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 8:56 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws 18 and password fields?

Um. My iPhone has never once spoken a password to me. If yours is,
that's probably a broken thing.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Randy Barnett
Sent: May-15-17 11:38 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws 18 and password fields?

Again people who use Jaws often have other disabilities that make
things hard for them to do... Acting as if they are being
unreasonable or ignorant in there wants is not helpful to anyone...
If they need to hear the characters it is not your or my place to
question them...
Jaws could read the characters without having them visible in speech
history. I don't see this as a issue if the person is alone or
doesn't care if the person with them hears the code. I Phone's speak
the passwords no matter what you want no one is saying don't use
IPhones
because of it...
On 5/15/2017 8:28 PM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:
I think allowing to make the password visible/audible could
potentially
result in many issues, after all, sighted people can't see it why
should we hear it? This is one situation where I think it is our
responsibility to improve our typing skills so we can reliably enter
a password. Imagine if it were in clear text, anybody who knows
about Jaws speech history could bring that up and see if they can't
find a
passsword in there.
Regards,
Sieghard

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Randy Barnett
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 8:22 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws 18 and password fields?

Maybe you can ask VFO to add this feature to Jaws as they obviously
have
the code from Window Eyes. If they get enough feedback they may
include the best of window eyes into jaws and give us a better
screen
reader...
I can hope. :)
On 5/15/2017 8:07 PM, netbat66 wrote:
i already don't like jaws. window eyes has the option to speak the
passwords you type in.
too bad its gone.
i am alone unless a ghost is listening in.
i am a 2 finger /two thumbed typer. grin.
most sites only give you 3 chances to type in your password before
you are locked out.


-----Original Message----- From: Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 7:31 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws 18 and password fields?

On very few occasions I see a password field where there is a "Show"
button or something along those lines which if you click it will
then reveal the password. But most password fields don't have it
for obvious security reasons and in those cases you can't make the
password visible or make it so you hear the characters instead of
"star". If you aren't confident enough to type without the
feedback or if another physical problem prevents you from doing so
then what you describe is probably the best solution, type the
password in Notepad and copy and paste it. As an alternative you
could use a password manager which would fill the user name and
password field for you once a password has been saved, but here
you still have to enter a master password to unlock the saved
password. Only thing is that the master password is the same for
all passwords and at least with Roboform you can specify a time
interval during which the passwords stay unlocked, e.g. if you set
it to 3 hours then for 3 hours after you enter the master password
you wouldn't have to enter it again. I assume other password
managers have a similar feature, but I can't be sure since I have only ever used Roboform.

Regards,
Sieghard

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
netbat66
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 2:23 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: jaws 18 and password fields?

can password fields be changed so i can hear what i type in?
if i can't i would have to type them in notepad and paste them
into the fields.



There's amazing intelligence in the Universe.
You can tell because none of them ever called Earth.






























locked `]RE: Abuse in the "digests"!

judith bron
 

Jaws wasn’t even a glimmer in the Founders’ eye.  Heck!  Back in those days Braille was either not invented yet or the blind in general were a useless population capable of doing, knowing or a`        `ccomplishing anything. 

Today every kind of hatred or dislike is considered racist when most of the population doesn’t even know what racism is. 

For those of you literalist who don’t agree with a JFW monitor are aware that mixing a handicapped issue like adaptive software for the blind with a serious political issue is like writing an English thesis comparing apples and oranges?  Monitors for a long, complicated technology based support list is a tedious never ending task. Every now and then word goes out on the list asking for volunteers to replace our current person (or is it a staff?) that so many disapprove of.  I haven’t seen (or is it heard?_ of this huge non-existant list.  So will all the more educated, more “fair” and super-humans with 25 hour days to devote to this “volunteer?” position please step up to the plate and show us all how it can be done?    

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 5:20 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Abuse in the "digests"!

 

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 02:16 pm, Mich Verrier wrote:

having not followed this thread in full

 And therein lie most of the problems on many of these forums.  Including most of the sturm und drang today.

Calling what has occurred abuse is beyond ridiculous.   Adults sometimes have heated disagreements and most of them manage to get through them without resorting to the fainting couch.

Would that more might try that approach.
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


Re: Questions concerning Thunderbird

 

James,

          I know that JAWS supports the same drag and drop commands as are supported in NVDA exist in JAWS, but I don't have my keystrokes documents handy at the moment to find 'em.

--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


Re: Questions concerning Thunderbird

James Bentley
 

Hello Brian,
 
The multiple entries in the system tray seems to have resolved itself for now.  I do not even know why.
 
I do not use NVDA. So, I wonder if there is a way to try the drag and drop with Jaws to get the date column to show up in the message header?
 
Thanks,
 
James B
 
 
 

Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: Questions concerning Thunderbird
 
James,
        1.  I can't see that (Sent Date or anything similar) in the list of things you can display in Thunderbird  If you want to have a look yourself then see:  http://accessibilitycentral.net/accessible%20email%20client%20mozilla%20thunderbird.html and look for the section entitled, "Using drag and drop with NVDA to rearrange column headers in Mozilla Thunderbird"  Even if you don't plan to rearrange anything it lets you get into what's available to rearrange and that's not necessarily visible by default

        2.  Do you have more than one e-mail account set up in Thunderbird?   I have not seen the 4-notifications with 4 different message counts but it strikes me as if it could be a mailbox by mailbox feature, as in version 52 there is a single system tray icon where you get the counts for individual mailboxes on hover-over.  I don't see anything obvious in Tools, Options that would make this happen but it's the only rational explanation unless something's not working right (which, of course, could be the case).
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


Re: Mouse Echo Layer

Bill White <billwhite92701@...>
 

No, I think it has been in JAWS since at least JAWS 16.
Bill White billwhite92701@...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mario" <mrb620@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer


Bill, the mouse Echo command is only for JAWS 18, right?


-------- Original Message --------
From: Bill White [mailto:billwhite92701@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 3:55 PM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Mouse Echo Layer

Hi again, Sieghard. One other item I will mention is that under the JAWS
context menu, which I reach by using the keystroke INSERT plus the
letter J, then open basic settings. The first setting,

Tutor messages, announce menu and control help radio button checked. If
you use one of the other settings in this dialogue, you will not get all
the control announcements. This might be the reason for INSERT plus
SPACE BAR, E not echoing correctly.



Bill White

Billwhite92701@...



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 10:18 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer



Hi Bill and Joseph,



I am using Jaws 18.0.2740 which is the latest built.

When I press Jaws Key+Spacebar I hear the little tone it makes, then
when I press “e” Jaws simply echos “e”. As I said, if I do “O” it does
correctly say OCR.

I am using intermediate verbocity, but I did consider this already and
changed it to beginner and it makes no difference.

Not sure why it doesn’t properly say what the keystroke is, but as I
said, it’s not a big deal and at this point it’s not worth it for me to
spend more time trying to figure it out especially since pressing any
other key in the sequence does what it is supposed to do and the action
is properly spoken, e.g. on, off, characters, words, lines.

.



Regards,

Sieghard



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 9:52 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer



Hi,

Or perhaps, what verbosity level are you using?

Cheers,

Joseph



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 9:44 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer



Which version of JAWS are you running when you encounter this behavior
of JAWS not saying

“Mouse Echo Layer?”



Bill White

Billwhite92701@...



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 9:13 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer



Thanks Bill, if I follow the Jaws Key+Spacebar and E with one of the
letters you mention Jaws will say on, off, character, word or line, it
just does not say the initial “Mouse Echo Layer”, not sure why that is
because when I do the layered command for OCR it will say “OCR” before I
press any of the secondary commands like d for documents, s for screen
etc. Not a big deal, at least I can turn it on or off and set the echo
to try this out.



Regards,

Sieghard





From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 9:08 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer



Hi, Sieghard. Your JAWS is not working as expected. When I do the command:

INSERT plus SPACE BAR, then the letter E, my JAWS says:

Mouse Echo Layer



It expects one of the following commands:

C for character,

W for word,

L for line,

P for paragraph,

O for on or off,



Bill White

Billwhite92701@...



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:15 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer



Hi David,



I read about this feature also and have been meaning to try it. However,
while I can find Mouse Echo in the Settings Centre when default settings
are loaded, the layered keystroke Jaws Key+Spacebar followed by E does
not say anything, e.g. it is not like Jaws Key+Spacebar followed by O
which says “OCR” or Jaws Key+Spacebar followed by Shift+H which says
“Speech History Cleared”.

Shouldn’t it say “Mouse Echo On” or “Mouse Echo Off”?



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of David
Moore
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 11:09 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer



Hi Bill,

The Mouse echo feature, when it is turned on with the key command you
just said, enables one to use a mouse or the touch pad on your laptop
and JAWS will say what you move the mouse pointer over. It works pretty
well, and it allows you to move the mouse pointer around and here what
you are moving it over so you can use the mouse and click just like a
sighted person. NVDA has had this feature built into it for a long time.
With JAWS, the mouse echo feature does not play any tones like NVDA does
to let you know where the pointer is on the screen, but you can navigate
the screen pretty well with this feature in JAWS. When you are done
using the Mouse echo, just use the same key command Insert+Space bar and
then e to turn it off. I have it set to say words as the mouse moves
around the screen.

Take care!

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10



From: Bill White <mailto:billwhite92701@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 1:43 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Mouse Echo Layer



Can anyone direct me as to where to find more information on what the
Mouse Echo Layer command does, INSERT plus SPACE BAR, then the letter E?



I want to know what it enables, and how to use the feature it enables.



Thank you.



Bill White

Billwhite92701@...












__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of detection engine 15427 (20170516) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


Re: Mouse Echo Layer

Mario
 

Bill, the mouse Echo command is only for JAWS 18, right?

-------- Original Message --------
From: Bill White [mailto:billwhite92701@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 3:55 PM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Mouse Echo Layer

Hi again, Sieghard. One other item I will mention is that under the JAWS
context menu, which I reach by using the keystroke INSERT plus the
letter J, then open basic settings. The first setting,

Tutor messages, announce menu and control help radio button checked. If
you use one of the other settings in this dialogue, you will not get all
the control announcements. This might be the reason for INSERT plus
SPACE BAR, E not echoing correctly.



Bill White

Billwhite92701@...



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 10:18 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer



Hi Bill and Joseph,



I am using Jaws 18.0.2740 which is the latest built.

When I press Jaws Key+Spacebar I hear the little tone it makes, then
when I press “e” Jaws simply echos “e”. As I said, if I do “O” it does
correctly say OCR.

I am using intermediate verbocity, but I did consider this already and
changed it to beginner and it makes no difference.

Not sure why it doesn’t properly say what the keystroke is, but as I
said, it’s not a big deal and at this point it’s not worth it for me to
spend more time trying to figure it out especially since pressing any
other key in the sequence does what it is supposed to do and the action
is properly spoken, e.g. on, off, characters, words, lines.

.



Regards,

Sieghard



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 9:52 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer



Hi,

Or perhaps, what verbosity level are you using?

Cheers,

Joseph



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 9:44 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer



Which version of JAWS are you running when you encounter this behavior
of JAWS not saying

“Mouse Echo Layer?”



Bill White

Billwhite92701@...



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 9:13 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer



Thanks Bill, if I follow the Jaws Key+Spacebar and E with one of the
letters you mention Jaws will say on, off, character, word or line, it
just does not say the initial “Mouse Echo Layer”, not sure why that is
because when I do the layered command for OCR it will say “OCR” before I
press any of the secondary commands like d for documents, s for screen
etc. Not a big deal, at least I can turn it on or off and set the echo
to try this out.



Regards,

Sieghard





From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 9:08 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer



Hi, Sieghard. Your JAWS is not working as expected. When I do the command:

INSERT plus SPACE BAR, then the letter E, my JAWS says:

Mouse Echo Layer



It expects one of the following commands:

C for character,

W for word,

L for line,

P for paragraph,

O for on or off,



Bill White

Billwhite92701@...



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:15 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer



Hi David,



I read about this feature also and have been meaning to try it. However,
while I can find Mouse Echo in the Settings Centre when default settings
are loaded, the layered keystroke Jaws Key+Spacebar followed by E does
not say anything, e.g. it is not like Jaws Key+Spacebar followed by O
which says “OCR” or Jaws Key+Spacebar followed by Shift+H which says
“Speech History Cleared”.

Shouldn’t it say “Mouse Echo On” or “Mouse Echo Off”?



From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of David
Moore
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 11:09 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer



Hi Bill,

The Mouse echo feature, when it is turned on with the key command you
just said, enables one to use a mouse or the touch pad on your laptop
and JAWS will say what you move the mouse pointer over. It works pretty
well, and it allows you to move the mouse pointer around and here what
you are moving it over so you can use the mouse and click just like a
sighted person. NVDA has had this feature built into it for a long time.
With JAWS, the mouse echo feature does not play any tones like NVDA does
to let you know where the pointer is on the screen, but you can navigate
the screen pretty well with this feature in JAWS. When you are done
using the Mouse echo, just use the same key command Insert+Space bar and
then e to turn it off. I have it set to say words as the mouse moves
around the screen.

Take care!

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10



From: Bill White <mailto:billwhite92701@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 1:43 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Mouse Echo Layer



Can anyone direct me as to where to find more information on what the
Mouse Echo Layer command does, INSERT plus SPACE BAR, then the letter E?



I want to know what it enables, and how to use the feature it enables.



Thank you.



Bill White

Billwhite92701@...


Re: Questions concerning Thunderbird

 

James,
        1.  I can't see that (Sent Date or anything similar) in the list of things you can display in Thunderbird.  If you want to have a look yourself then see:  http://accessibilitycentral.net/accessible%20email%20client%20mozilla%20thunderbird.html and look for the section entitled, "Using drag and drop with NVDA to rearrange column headers in Mozilla Thunderbird."  Even if you don't plan to rearrange anything it lets you get into what's available to rearrange and that's not necessarily visible by default.

        2.  Do you have more than one e-mail account set up in Thunderbird?   I have not seen the 4-notifications with 4 different message counts but it strikes me as if it could be a mailbox by mailbox feature, as in version 52 there is a single system tray icon where you get the counts for individual mailboxes on hover-over.  I don't see anything obvious in Tools, Options that would make this happen but it's the only rational explanation unless something's not working right (which, of course, could be the case).
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


locked Re: jaws 18 and password fields?

Randy Barnett <randy@...>
 

Oh, I do comprehend just fine I just dont agree. Isnt diversity a awesome thing! :)

On 5/16/2017 4:14 PM, Randy Barnett wrote:
There isn't any fury that I am aware of. I was speaking in general at this point about how individuals choices are over shadowed by worries that for the most part don't affect us. Like I said in another post. I turn off windows firewall and U
AC as well as most other security features and I download torrents go to all kinds of sites including ones MS tries to stop me from visiting and I download lots of files off the web and I have never had a virus or had my PC hacked. For the average consumer the security threat is not that big if you use common sense... 90% of MS security is just a inconvenience. Unless you are a business or government. Witch is where all the security in windows came from. Not for home users but for the larger corporate/government clients.

On 5/16/2017 1:50 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Randy,  the colon followed by right parenthesis came through just fine as a text based smile.

I have no anger or animosity either.  I still don't understand how someone such as yourself, who has a long and deep history with computers, can't or won't comprehend that design decisions can and will be made, some of which are considered more flexible than others.

I find the fury about password characters being "audio masked" by convention simply unjustified.  Yes, it is inconvenient for some.  There are lots of things that are inconvenient for some.  There is a balance to be struck between ease and security, and it isn't overstepping to believe that security would hold sway in certain specific instances.

It really is not all about you (for any you, not specifically you) and while feature requests can, and indeed should, be made that doesn't mean that they'll necessarily come to pass.
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.




locked Re: Muting of jaws 18 and password fields?

Dave...
 


Brian,
 
Very cool. I just muted the thread, as it was becoming a flaming rant.
 
Dave
Oregonian, woodworker, Engineer, Musician, and Pioneer
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 13:59
Subject: Re: jaws 18 and password fields?

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 01:57 pm, Maria Campbell wrote:
What this thread has done to my inbox is incomprehensible.

That's the beauty of the "Mute this Topic" link at the end of each and every message.  If you wish you can stop all further messages for this topic only dead in their tracks without ever having to deal with them.
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


locked Re: jaws 18 and password fields?

Randy Barnett <randy@...>
 

There isn't any fury that I am aware of. I was speaking in general at this point about how individuals choices are over shadowed by worries that for the most part don't affect us. Like I said in another post. I turn off windows firewall and U
AC as well as most other security features and I download torrents go to all kinds of sites including ones MS tries to stop me from visiting and I download lots of files off the web and I have never had a virus or had my PC hacked. For the average consumer the security threat is not that big if you use common sense... 90% of MS security is just a inconvenience. Unless you are a business or government. Witch is where all the security in windows came from. Not for home users but for the larger corporate/government clients.

On 5/16/2017 1:50 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Randy,  the colon followed by right parenthesis came through just fine as a text based smile.

I have no anger or animosity either.  I still don't understand how someone such as yourself, who has a long and deep history with computers, can't or won't comprehend that design decisions can and will be made, some of which are considered more flexible than others.

I find the fury about password characters being "audio masked" by convention simply unjustified.  Yes, it is inconvenient for some.  There are lots of things that are inconvenient for some.  There is a balance to be struck between ease and security, and it isn't overstepping to believe that security would hold sway in certain specific instances.

It really is not all about you (for any you, not specifically you) and while feature requests can, and indeed should, be made that doesn't mean that they'll necessarily come to pass.
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.



Questions concerning Thunderbird

James Bentley
 

Hi all,
 
1.  Is it possible to get the date that a message was sent to show up in the message list headers in Thunderbird?
 
2.  In my system tray, there are  4 different entries from TB.  Each shows that I have received messages.  And, each shows a different number for messages received.  I’m wonering about that one too.
 
Thanks for any help,
 
James B
 
 
**No one is totally worthless, they can always be used as a bad example.


locked Re: Abuse in the "digests"!

 

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 02:16 pm, Mich Verrier wrote:
having not followed this thread in full

 And therein lie most of the problems on many of these forums.  Including most of the sturm und drang today.

Calling what has occurred abuse is beyond ridiculous.   Adults sometimes have heated disagreements and most of them manage to get through them without resorting to the fainting couch.

Would that more might try that approach.
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.