On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 04:41 PM, JM Casey wrote:
I suspect some blind folks don’t even have one.
-
If that's the case, and we're not talking about a laptop, that would almost certainly be because they threw it away, which is a very bad idea.
I don't know of a single person, blind or not, who doesn't have at least a few occasions where an assistant becomes involved and when most sighted people need to work they have to have a mouse.
I've also never understood why instructors for blind tech do not teach how to "hobble" a mouse such that a real left and right click are available when they are needed, and no emulation works.  It's so simple (and I'm presuming an optical mouse - roller ball mice have been a thing of the past for a long while now):  Put a piece of tape over the laser port underneath, and once you know what it feels like it's impossible to mistake (and there's usually only one "big hole" in the bottom of a mouse).  Once that's done, no amount of moving the mouse will cause the mouse pointer to move, but you still have real left and right click.  If you do this with a small piece of cardboard and tape it can be easier to remove when that might be needed.
In the case of a laptop mouse pad, that's done simply by masking off the track pad area with a piece of cardboard that is at least as thick as a manila folder or, preferably, the back of your average legal pad. Finger touches cannot be detected through this, but the hard left and right mouse buttons are still available (or the left and right push corners where actual separate hard buttons are not present).
Knowing how to create and use a "neutered"/"hobbled" mouse or mouse pad can solve a lot of annoyance.
--
Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t.
*     ~ Lauren Bacall

Never knew about this command; I don’t have a number pad
*From:*main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Glenn / Lenny
*Sent:* August 5, 2022 3:41 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: preforming a right click
Well one keyboard command that might help, maybe you did this too, and it is for knowing what exactly has been selected:
shift + insert + zero (number pad) & 2.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
*From:*Madison Martin <mailto:Madison.Martin2000@...>
*To:*main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Sent:*Friday, August 05, 2022 3:35 PM
*Subject:*Re: preforming a right click
I can’t get them selected though… When I hold down shift and press the down arrow all Jaws says is that space is selected
*From:*main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io> <main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of *Glenn / Lenny
*Sent:* August 5, 2022 3:23 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: preforming a right click
Madison,
Being context sensitive, I wonder if the item you want to perform an action on, is no longer selected.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
*From:*Madison Martin <mailto:Madison.Martin2000@...>
*To:*main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Sent:*Friday, August 05, 2022 3:21 PM
*Subject:*Re: preforming a right click
Okay, the problem is that when I bring up the context menu the option to remove an entry doesn’t show up even though I was told by others who us Microsoft 365 that the option is there
*From:*main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io> <main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of *Brian Vogel
*Sent:* August 5, 2022 2:36 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: preforming a right click
By far and away the most reliable method is either using the applications/context menu key if your keyboard happens to have one, or SHIFT + F10 if it does not.  Neither of these involve any emulation and Windows recognizes both.
--
Brian *-*Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
**Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t.***
*     ~ Lauren Bacall

Yeah. It’s the left click situation taht’s a little bit trickier.
Maybe especially for those of us who don’t have a laptop – actually in
a situation now where I don’t even know where my physical mouse is as
somehow when assembling my new desk/worksation I seem to have
misplaced it. Of course it’s not the sort of thing that would even
occur to me as I can go weeks without even thinking about a mouse,
but then, boom, suddenly you find yourself at a point where one might
be useful and it’s, oh no, where is that blasted thing? I suspect some
blind folks don’t even have one.

*From:*main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Brian
Vogel
*Sent:* August 5, 2022 04:03 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: preforming a right click

On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 03:59 PM, Mike B. wrote:

If you're using a laptop without a NumPad:

Left Mouse Button / Click = CAPS LOCK+8

Right Mouse Button / Click = CAPS LOCK+9

-
But, again, this relies on JAWS emulation. And whether it's JAWS or
any other screen reader, mouse button emulation is very frequently hit or miss.

Best practice is the applications/context menu key, or SHIFT + F10,
both of which are native Windows commands that are analogous to a
physical right mouse button click. There's really no point in
introducing any uncertainty when it's just not necessary.

Each can do as he or she sees fit, but only once the issues
surrounding the various choices are clear. That's an informed choice.

--

Brian *-*Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.
If you’re alive, it isn’t.**
* ~ Lauren Bacall

I can’t get them selected though… When I hold down shift and press the down arrow all Jaws says is that space is selected

Okay, the problem is that when I bring up the context menu the option to remove an entry doesn’t show up even though I was told by others who us Microsoft 365 that the option is there

By far and away the most reliable method is either using the applications/context menu key if your keyboard happens to have one, or SHIFT + F10 if it does not.  Neither of these involve any emulation and Windows recognizes both.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.
     ~ Lauren Bacall

Yeah. It’s the left click situation taht’s a little bit trickier. Maybe especially for those of us who don’t have a laptop – actually in a situation now where I don’t even know where my physical mouse is as somehow when assembling my new desk/worksation I seem to have misplaced it. Of course it’s not the sort of thing that would even occur to me as I can go weeks without even thinking about a  mouse, but then, boom, suddenly you find yourself at a point where one might be useful and it’s, oh no, where is that blasted thing? I suspect some blind folks don’t even have one.
*From:*main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Brian Vogel
*Sent:* August 5, 2022 04:03 PM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: preforming a right click
On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 03:59 PM, Mike B. wrote:
If you're using a laptop without a NumPad:
Left Mouse Button / Click   =   CAPS LOCK+8
Right Mouse Button / Click  =  CAPS LOCK+9
-
But, again, this relies on JAWS emulation.  And whether it's JAWS or any other screen reader, mouse button emulation is very frequently hit or miss.
Best practice is the applications/context menu key, or SHIFT + F10, both of which are native Windows commands that are analogous to a physical right mouse button click.  There's really no point in introducing any uncertainty when it's just not necessary.
Each can do as he or she sees fit, but only once the issues surrounding the various choices are clear.  That's an informed choice.
--
Brian *-*Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t.**
*     ~ Lauren Bacall

On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 03:59 PM, Mike B. wrote:

If you're using a laptop without a NumPad:

Left Mouse Button / Click   =   CAPS LOCK+8 

 

Right Mouse Button / Click  =  CAPS LOCK+9 

 

-
But, again, this relies on JAWS emulation.  And whether it's JAWS or any other screen reader, mouse button emulation is very frequently hit or miss.

Best practice is the applications/context menu key, or SHIFT + F10, both of which are native Windows commands that are analogous to a physical right mouse button click.  There's really no point in introducing any uncertainty when it's just not necessary.

Each can do as he or she sees fit, but only once the issues surrounding the various choices are clear.  That's an informed choice.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.
     ~ Lauren Bacall

On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 04:09 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
Unless I buy a new computer I can't upgrade to Windows 11 because it
requires TPM 2.0 and my system has TPM 1.2.
-
You might want to double check that if you have an interest in Windows 11.  I'm absolutely certain that the initial TPM requirement was for 2.0, but I seem to remember that they dropped that down to one point something.
Running the "can I upgrade" checker if the Windows Update pane of Update & Security settings isn't already telling you that you cannot update is worth doing, as it will identify issues that may be preventing you from updating that can be remedied without the need for new hardware. Someone just recently posted, but I'm not sure if it was on this group, about getting a message that they needed to update BIOS (and you really should update BIOS any time you're notified that an update is available.  Most BIOS updates these days are about security patches and unlike in the "bad old days" when manual flashing of BIOS was necessary and often subject to failure, the modern executable packages are a cinch to kick off and let them do the rest.)
--
Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t.
*     ~ Lauren Bacall

On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 03:59 PM, Mike B. wrote:

If you’re using a laptop without a NumPad:

Left Mouse Button / Click   =   CAPS LOCK+8 

Right Mouse Button / Click  =  CAPS LOCK+9 

-
But, again, this relies on JAWS emulation.  And whether it’s JAWS or any other screen reader, mouse button emulation is very frequently hit or miss.

Best practice is the applications/context menu key, or SHIFT + F10, both of which are native Windows commands that are analogous to a physical right mouse button click.  There’s really no point in introducing any uncertainty when it’s just not necessary.

Each can do as he or she sees fit, but only once the issues surrounding the various choices are clear.  That’s an informed choice.—

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.
     ~ Lauren Bacall

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Okay, the problem is that when I bring up the context menu the option to remove an entry doesn’t show up even though I was told by others who us Microsoft 365 that the option is there

By far and away the most reliable method is either using the applications/context menu key if your keyboard happens to have one, or SHIFT + F10 if it does not.  Neither of these involve any emulation and Windows recognizes both.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.
     ~ Lauren Bacall

On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 04:14 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
A mouse makes things easy, but it also slows you down.
-
Another abso-friggin'-lutely.  You have to remove a hand from the keyboard to use it, and when you're doing that hundreds of times per day that time adds up.  I'd say the only time it makes things faster is with selection of text within documents.  Swipe over selection is the fastest way to select, with precision, that I've ever encountered.  Selection via keyboard can be done, and quickly, but generally with less precision or with more time involved in limiting the selection at the end of the "chunk" to only what one wants.
--
Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t.
*     ~ Lauren Bacall

On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 04:11 PM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:

So most of what people are doing with the keyboard could be done without a screen reader installed.

-
Abso-friggin'-lutely!  Most of the keyboard commands issues by any screen reader user are not screen reader commands.  The number of Windows or application program shortcuts used in day-to-day activities far outstrips actual screen reader commands for any user I've ever observed or tutored.

It's funny, too, but the blind and low-vision community often has no appreciation how much of an accident accessibility by keyboard commands is.  These were essential in the days of DOS and before WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) software such as MS-Word and similar came on the scene under Windows.  But they were carried over into Windows only because, at that time, sighted people were used to using these almost exclusively because windows and windowed environments did not exist and you learned them.  It would have been so, so easy for the decision to have been made where all the keyboard shortcuts would have been jettisoned rather than maintained.  By the luck of the draw and circumstances, the opposite decision was made, so keyboard shortcuts still exist for the vast majority of actions even though the vast majority of sighted users have not a clue of what any of these might be since point and click really did take over.  There are notable exceptions, though.  CTRL + C (Copy), CTRL + X (Cut), and CTRL + V (Paste) are still very, very widely used.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.
     ~ Lauren Bacall

What is Pop Peeper? I don't have that in my SysTray.
Bill White
billwhite92701@...
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene Warner
Sent: Friday, August 5, 2022 11:06 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Rearanging system tray icons
I actually have been through that area of settings and I chose to have
all the icons displayed. Then in the action center I either disabled it
entirely or I set it to not show its icon in the task bar.
For rearanging the system tray icons All I needed to do was move the Pop
Peeper icon to the first position so that when I hit insert+F11 it is
the first icon JAWS tells me about.
Gene...
On 8/5/2022 1:54 PM, Mike B. wrote:


Hi Gene,
I've never tried rearranging the system tray icons using drag and drop,
but heere's how you do it in Windows 10 a didifferent way.
Use the steps below after going to the following: Settings / System /
Personalization / Taskbar category.

In the, Taskbar category, set your Settings and their state as listed
below and you can change them back after you are done rearranging the
icons, but
I would only turn the, Lock the Taskbar, button off and leave the rest
of the settings alone:
Lock the Taskbar button, is On, by default.
As you tab through these settings I Have all other buttons turned off
These next 2 options I have set as follows.
Taskbar location on screen Combo box, Bottom

Taskbar location on screen Combine taskbar buttons, Never
Here's how I rearrange the system tray icons running Windows 10 Pro
Version 1809 (OS Build 17763.379) & all newer versions with all
installed versions
of Jaws.
1. Windows key + I, for Settings, tab 1 time to System, right arrow to
Personalization, and press enter.
2. Navigate to, Taskbar and press enter.
3. Tab several times to, Show Badges on Taskbar..., and make sure this
is, Off / unchecked.
4. Tab a few times to, Notification Area, Select which icons appear on
the taskbar Link, and press enter.
5. Okay now to put the System Tray in the order you want it in. Tab
through all the icons making a note of which ones you have checked /
turned on because
you're going to uncheck all of them.
6. Uncheck all the icons. Now you will go through and check the icons
in the reverse order you want them in because , the 1st one yu check
will be at
the bottom of the list, the 2nd will be 2nd from the bottom, the 3rd will
be 3rd from the bottom etc. etc.... After you're done open the system
tray to make sure it's the way you want it and Alt + F4 if it is,
there's not an
Okay button.

Note: If you have the Action Center showing in the system tray I don't
know of any way to get that to show anywhere else except at the bottom.
Rearranging
the icons using the steps above will put them in the order you want
them, but they'll all be above the Action Center.

Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool.
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Gene Warner <mailto:genewarner3@...>
*To:* JAWS support list <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Sent:* Friday, August 05, 2022 9:12 AM
*Subject:* Rearanging system tray icons

Here's a tip that may not be so obvious.

You can use JAWS' drag and drop to rearange the system tray icons, but
don't use insert+F11 to get there, instead use windows+B.

Gene...