Date   

moderated Re: question about updating Jaws

T. Civitello
 

You have to remove them yourself. Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: Madison Martin
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2022 8:46 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: question about updating Jaws

Hi all,
Once you update to a new version of Jaws do all previous versions that are
installed on your computer get removed automatically or do you have to uninstall
them yourself? I ask because I'm updated my old laptop to Windows 10 and even
though I use Jaws 2021 on that computer I saw that there was Jaws 2013, 2015 and
2018 still installed and I uninstalled them I'm wondering if I should check this
laptop for any old versions that might still be on it.. Hope someone can help me
as I'd really like to know.
Madison


moderated question about updating Jaws

Madison Martin
 

Hi all,
Once you update to a new version of Jaws do all previous versions that are
installed on your computer get removed automatically or do you have to uninstall
them yourself? I ask because I'm updated my old laptop to Windows 10 and even
though I use Jaws 2021 on that computer I saw that there was Jaws 2013, 2015 and
2018 still installed and I uninstalled them I'm wondering if I should check this
laptop for any old versions that might still be on it.. Hope someone can help me
as I'd really like to know.
Madison


moderated Re: Microsoft Teams for a Video Job Interview

Michael Walker
 

Thank you, Curt.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Curtis Chong
Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2022 3:57 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io; jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft Teams for a Video Job Interview

 

Mike:

 

It is not a question of what is more accessible. It is rather that which one provides a video of you that puts you in the best light. Using an iPhone for such a purposes is a bit riskier than a laptop. Your hand might shake, you might tilt the iPhone the wrong way, or something else. A laptop camera has the advantage of being relatively stable once it is set.

 

Cordially,

 

Curtis Chong

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael Walker
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2022 2:55 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Microsoft Teams for a Video Job Interview

 

Hi,

 

Would you use the camera built into your laptop with JAWS, or would you prefer Teams on the iPhone with VoiceOver?  What is more accessible?

 

Thank you,

Mike

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

 


moderated Re: Microsoft Teams for a Video Job Interview

Curtis Chong
 

Mike:

 

It is not a question of what is more accessible. It is rather that which one provides a video of you that puts you in the best light. Using an iPhone for such a purposes is a bit riskier than a laptop. Your hand might shake, you might tilt the iPhone the wrong way, or something else. A laptop camera has the advantage of being relatively stable once it is set.

 

Cordially,

 

Curtis Chong

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael Walker
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2022 2:55 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Microsoft Teams for a Video Job Interview

 

Hi,

 

Would you use the camera built into your laptop with JAWS, or would you prefer Teams on the iPhone with VoiceOver?  What is more accessible?

 

Thank you,

Mike

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 


moderated Microsoft Teams for a Video Job Interview

Michael Walker
 

Hi,

 

Would you use the camera built into your laptop with JAWS, or would you prefer Teams on the iPhone with VoiceOver?  What is more accessible?

 

Thank you,

Mike

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 


moderated Re: Backup service

kevin meyers
 

Hi Justin,

 

I downloaded the trial version of BackBlaze. I want to test the restore function and have problems.

 

I go to the view / restore page. Jaws can recognize the folders that were copied from my laptop. I tried to go into one of the folders as I only want to restore one file just to see if it works. No matter what I did, I couldn’t get any files to show up whether I pressed enter on the folder or used the Jaws cursor and did a double left click.

 

Did you try to do a restore? What did you do?

 

Cheers,

 

Kevin

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Justin Williams
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 3:53 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Backup service

 

I have back blaze.

 

I just got it.

 

Justin

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of kevin meyers
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 4:46 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Backup service

 

 

Hello,

 

I’m looking into using a backup service. Does anyone know of a good one? I’m looking to use a service that copies from my laptop, encrypt the data and send it to a server. I do use an external drive for backup. I want to backup at a different location.

 

Cheers,

 

Kevin

 


moderated Re: question about uninstalling Jaws

Dan Longmore
 

Hi,
Yes, you can uninstall prior versions. Make sure you do not uninstall
"shared components" when prompted. IF you remove these shared components
JAWS, current version, and any other Freedom products will not function.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Madison Martin
Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2022 10:20 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: question about uninstalling Jaws

Hi all,
Is it possible to uninstall a specific version of Jaws without uninstalling
the whole program? I ask because I discovered that I still have Jaws 2013 on
my old laptop but yet when I use it it's 2021 that I'm using. If this is
possible then how do I do this? Thanks for any help anyone can provide me!
Madison


moderated Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?

Annabelle Susan Morison
 

Hey Glenn!
What I want is for the words to be spoken as if they were one. "soninlaw", if that's the way you might be thinking of.

On 03/02/2022 8:23 AM Glenn / Lenny <glenn@...> wrote:


As pronunciation of punctuation goes, can't someone just increase or decrease the punctuation level in the settings?
I don't know if Annabelle wants the dashes spoken or not.
Like changing it from some to most or vice versa.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: Leo
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2022 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?

I don’t actually know if the Eloquence dictionary file does not take the hyphenated words  as lexical units because some kind of support must be added, or because Jaws is incapable of sending the hyphen to the synth, or even both.  As for other synthesizers such as vocalizer or Eloquence for Windows,  each one has their own native representation. The problem for the user is getting to know where to add those entries. This is why is really important that the companies behind the engines add this kind of support  for the custom user’s dictionaries.



Best,

Leo Bado


From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Annabelle Susan Morison
Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2022 8:59 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?


Yaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy! That time it actually worked! Now I'd like to find out how to do the ones for those "in-law" compounds. Would it be the same way as what you described in your previous email? Better yet, would it work with other synthesizers as well? Like Vocalizer, for example?

On 03/02/2022 6:38 AM Leo <literophilus@...> wrote:



I’m sorry, the format changed when I pasted the notations in the e-mail message. You can fix it easily though.

Open the dictionary file again,  and for each line delete the blank space between the lexical unit and the sign ` and insert a tabulation. Here is an example:

Incorrect:

Voila `[.0vwa.1la]

Correct:

Voila `[.0vwa.1la]


Do the same for every single entry, and don’t forget always opening the notepad as administrator and saving all changes.


Best,

Leo Bado


From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Annabelle Susan Morison
Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2022 4:57 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?


Hey Leo!

I tried your suggestion, note-for-note, and when I typed "voila", in a regular notepad file after saving the dictionary file as instructed, the pronunciation didn't change! What did I do wrong? Is there something I was forgetting?

On 03/01/2022 12:06 PM Leo <literophilus@...> wrote:



OK folks,

first and foremost, I want to respond to Annabelle since she brought up this matter.

I’m 99.9 percent sure that the Jaws dictionary manager does not support any SSML tag. My reasoning is quite simple even though I’m far, far away from being an expert or a developer. The documentation related to the synth states that, for the matter of defining the specific pronunciation of a word, either IPA or SPR translation  must be used. Now, here comes the key to understand the difference between orthographic and phonetic representation. Both IPA and SPR are systems that represent phonemes whereas orthographic representation is what the Jaws dictionary manager really supports, and this is the reality for most synthesizers nowadays because the companies behind these synthesizers either neglect users or consider users  incapable of dealing with this particular feature of the speech engines.

Now, let’s go back and have a real quick glimpse  into both IPA and SPR. IPA stands for international phonetic alphabet, and it is largely used by linguists, general dictionaries, and people learning languages  to check the standardized way of how a particular sound in any given language is represented.  On the flipside, SPR stands for symbolic phonetic representation, and it is specifically used by the IBM speech engine  as an built-in feature through which the synth interprets  how a particular word is pronounced.

Well, it happens to be that this same built-in feature, SPR, is present in all the engines derived from the IBM engine, such as via voice and of course, eloquence.

Now, before diving into how to add a new entry using SPR, I want to give you my 2 cent worth  on modifying  inflection, pitch, and even intonation.

As I told you, I’m not a developer, but I’ve read developer’s opinions in this regard indicating that this is only possible via using developer’s kits and tools, and knowing exactly what you’re doing since, particularly the aspects of inflection and intonation are not as simple as they look.  Of course, if you want the changes to be permanent. For any other purpose, you should ask the guys who use some tags to make Eloquence able to sing.

 

OK, let’s put the show truly on the road:

 

If you haven’t made any modification to the following words, you will notice how terribly such a words are pronounced by eloquence:

Voila

vernissage

Descartes

Sisyphean

 

Let’s create the necessary entries to teach this Eloquence guy how to pronounce standard American English.

 

For those who want to know how this works, you may want to follow these instructions:

•    In your computer, launch  the notepad app as administrator. (You can do it easily by pressing windows key plus r, then type “notepad” without the quotes, now push and hold control and shift at the same time, and push enter.)

 

• Press alt plus Y when the user account control dialogue pops up. Now, press control plus o to open a new file.

 

• Now press control plus l, which will take you to the address bar, and delete the current address. Paste the following address instead, and hit enter:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Freedom Scientific\Shared\Eloquence\6.1

 

• Presently, tab until you find the field “files of type,” and in this combo box choose “all files.”  Now in this same dialogue, get back to the explorer where the files are  shown, and look for the file called “ELOQMAIN,” and open it.

 

• Now go to the end of the document by pressing control plus end, and paste the following notations:

 

 

Voila `[.0vwa.1la]

VOILA `[.0vwa.1la]

voila `[.0vwa.1la]

Vernissage `[.2ver.0nX.1saZ]

VERNISSAGE `[.2ver.0nX.1saZ]

vernissage `[.2ver.0nX.1saZ]

Descartes `[.0de.1kart]

DESCARTES `[.0de.1kart]

descartes `[.0de.1kart]

Sisyphean `[.2sI.0sX.1fi.0Xn]

SISYPHEAN `[.2sI.0sX.1fi.0Xn]

sisyphean `[.2sI.0sX.1fi.0Xn]

 

End of notations.

 

Once you have pasted  the notations, save the document and exit. Come back to this document, and check again how the words in the beginning of the instructions are pronounced.

By this time you will have noticed that every word has three entries. This would not be the case if Jaws added  support for a root file and an abbreviation file.  The essential difference between a root dictionary file and a main dictionary file is that a root  dictionary file is non-case-sensitive.  Of course, Eloquence supports the three dictionary files, but it is just a real mystery why it haven’t been included.  Not only this, but according to the documentation available, the three dictionary files can be added for several languages supported, such as Spanish and German.

Back to the notations, those of you who are observant  will have noticed that the notations include three essential elements to define the pronunciation of a word, namely, syllable boundaries, primary and secondary stress, and the actual phoneme.

As for the example that Annabelle brought up,  namely, the pronunciation of son-in-law, there is a serious  difficulty, again, in my humble opinion, which would be the way how Jaws usually reads  compound words because Jaws doesn’t seem to interpret the dash symbol  in the middle of a text as a lexical unit; however, I know that I can be wrong.  It would be helpful, however, if someone knew how to make Jaws  send the compound words to the synth as a lexical unit.

 

If somebody is interested, There is someone who goes by the name Amir, and he has been building a dictionary file for long time, including hundreds of fixed words. So, let me know in case you want the file.

 

Also, the you can find the online documentation  in this link:

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/fr/SSMQSV_6.1.1/com.ibm.voicetools.ssml.doc/ssml_sprs_intro.html#ssml_sprs_intro

 

Last but not least, I wrote months ago to FS support requesting if they could make available more functionality  to improve the pronunciation of Eloquence, and I even explained everything that I have written here, but I never got a response.

I also wrote to CodeFactory, since I bought  years ago Eloquence for Windows SAPI 5,  asking for a way to add SAPI 5 phonemes to the user dictionary, but nothing has ever happened.

 


Best,

Leo Bado


From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 12:49 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?


On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 06:54 AM, Leo wrote:

But users don’t seem to care too much about it, partly because people don’t understand the difference between orthographic  and phonetic representation.

-
Which is understandable, after all.  But, that being said, those users can use the "Mute this topic" feature.

How to get maximum possible control over pronunciation in a given synth is something I'd have to believe a certain subset on any screen reader group would have keen interest in.  And those who don't have an easy way to silence the topic itself.

I'll post my tutorial again, as it never hurts for the newer members on high-traffic groups to be aware of their options with the Groups.io service:  

Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io (docx)

Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io  (PDF)


--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Friendship. . . Intimacy, untroubled by eros.

         ~ Kim Chernin





moderated Re: question about uninstalling Jaws

Steve Nutt
 

Yep, if it still exists in Apps And Features, just uninstall in the usual
way, but say No to removing shared components, otherwise you may end up
having to repair your newer version of JAWS.

All the best

Steve

--
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W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Madison Martin
Sent: 02 March 2022 15:20
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: question about uninstalling Jaws

Hi all,
Is it possible to uninstall a specific version of Jaws without uninstalling
the whole program? I ask because I discovered that I still have Jaws 2013 on
my old laptop but yet when I use it it's 2021 that I'm using. If this is
possible then how do I do this? Thanks for any help anyone can provide me!
Madison


moderated Re: question about font changes in a Word document

Steve Nutt
 

Hi,

If you turn it on with the layered command, inconsistencies will
automatically be read to you as you read through the document.

I really think it would be worth you learning a little more about text
analysis. It is really good.

All the best

Steve

--
To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to
https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe

Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
T: +44(0)1438-742286
M: +44(0)7956-334938
F: +44(0)1438-759589
E: steve@...
W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: 01 March 2022 19:39
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: question about font changes in a Word document

I'm not sure how it's different. You can only identify one item at a time,
so both ways require individual presses of the alt-Windows key-I command.

So I'm curious. What's the benefit to you of beginning the process with the
layered keystroke command.?

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2022 12:28 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: question about font changes in a Word document

Hi,

This is not true. Alt Windows I is just one movement command in Text
Analyser, if you want to turn it on and be notified of all inconsistencies,
then you need the layered command.

It's surprising how few people really learn text analyser, it is fantastic.

All the best

Steve

--
To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to
https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe

Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
T: +44(0)1438-742286
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F: +44(0)1438-759589
E: steve@...
W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: 01 March 2022 14:02
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: question about font changes in a Word document

Steve,

As Curtis alerted me yesterday, all you need do to initiate the text
analyzer process is press alt-Windows key-i. No need for the layered
insert-spacebar, a command.

Separately, after pressing that layered command, pressing t just inserts the
letter t into the document. At least, that's the case on my system. Latest
JAWS 22, Windows 10, Office 2016.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2022 6:17 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: question about font changes in a Word document

Hi Bill,

Text Analyser would be better for this, because it reports inconsistent
fonts as you read the document.

JAWS Key+A then T.

All the best

Steve

--
To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to
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Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
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T: +44(0)1438-742286
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E: steve@...
W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: 28 February 2022 17:19
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: question about font changes in a Word document

Hi, Madison. Find some of the document that you haven't revised. Press JAWS
key plus F to find out what font and point size that part of the document is
in.

Then go to the part you added, and repeat the above action. If either the
font or the point size or both are different, it will tell you when you use
JAWS key plus F.

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Madison
Martin
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 9:04 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: question about font changes in a Word document

Hi all,
I added something to a Word document last night, is there any way to check
and make sure that it's in the same font as the rest of the document? Using
latest versions of Jaws and Office 365.
Madison


moderated Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?

Glenn / Lenny
 


As pronunciation of punctuation goes, can't someone just increase or decrease the punctuation level in the settings?
I don't know if Annabelle wants the dashes spoken or not.
Like changing it from some to most or vice versa.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
From: Leo
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2022 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?

I don’t actually know if the Eloquence dictionary file does not take the hyphenated words  as lexical units because some kind of support must be added, or because Jaws is incapable of sending the hyphen to the synth, or even both.  As for other synthesizers such as vocalizer or Eloquence for Windows,  each one has their own native representation. The problem for the user is getting to know where to add those entries. This is why is really important that the companies behind the engines add this kind of support  for the custom user’s dictionaries.

 

 

Best,

Leo Bado

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Annabelle Susan Morison
Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2022 8:59 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?

 

Yaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy! That time it actually worked! Now I'd like to find out how to do the ones for those "in-law" compounds. Would it be the same way as what you described in your previous email? Better yet, would it work with other synthesizers as well? Like Vocalizer, for example?

On 03/02/2022 6:38 AM Leo <literophilus@...> wrote:

 

 

I’m sorry, the format changed when I pasted the notations in the e-mail message. You can fix it easily though.

Open the dictionary file again,  and for each line delete the blank space between the lexical unit and the sign ` and insert a tabulation. Here is an example:

Incorrect:

Voila `[.0vwa.1la]

Correct:

Voila `[.0vwa.1la]

 

Do the same for every single entry, and don’t forget always opening the notepad as administrator and saving all changes.

 

Best,

Leo Bado

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Annabelle Susan Morison
Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2022 4:57 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?

 

Hey Leo!

I tried your suggestion, note-for-note, and when I typed "voila", in a regular notepad file after saving the dictionary file as instructed, the pronunciation didn't change! What did I do wrong? Is there something I was forgetting?

On 03/01/2022 12:06 PM Leo <literophilus@...> wrote:

 

 

OK folks,

first and foremost, I want to respond to Annabelle since she brought up this matter.

I’m 99.9 percent sure that the Jaws dictionary manager does not support any SSML tag. My reasoning is quite simple even though I’m far, far away from being an expert or a developer. The documentation related to the synth states that, for the matter of defining the specific pronunciation of a word, either IPA or SPR translation  must be used. Now, here comes the key to understand the difference between orthographic and phonetic representation. Both IPA and SPR are systems that represent phonemes whereas orthographic representation is what the Jaws dictionary manager really supports, and this is the reality for most synthesizers nowadays because the companies behind these synthesizers either neglect users or consider users  incapable of dealing with this particular feature of the speech engines.

Now, let’s go back and have a real quick glimpse  into both IPA and SPR. IPA stands for international phonetic alphabet, and it is largely used by linguists, general dictionaries, and people learning languages  to check the standardized way of how a particular sound in any given language is represented.  On the flipside, SPR stands for symbolic phonetic representation, and it is specifically used by the IBM speech engine  as an built-in feature through which the synth interprets  how a particular word is pronounced.

Well, it happens to be that this same built-in feature, SPR, is present in all the engines derived from the IBM engine, such as via voice and of course, eloquence.

Now, before diving into how to add a new entry using SPR, I want to give you my 2 cent worth  on modifying  inflection, pitch, and even intonation.

As I told you, I’m not a developer, but I’ve read developer’s opinions in this regard indicating that this is only possible via using developer’s kits and tools, and knowing exactly what you’re doing since, particularly the aspects of inflection and intonation are not as simple as they look.  Of course, if you want the changes to be permanent. For any other purpose, you should ask the guys who use some tags to make Eloquence able to sing.

 

OK, let’s put the show truly on the road:

 

If you haven’t made any modification to the following words, you will notice how terribly such a words are pronounced by eloquence:

Voila

vernissage

Descartes

Sisyphean

 

Let’s create the necessary entries to teach this Eloquence guy how to pronounce standard American English.

 

For those who want to know how this works, you may want to follow these instructions:

•    In your computer, launch  the notepad app as administrator. (You can do it easily by pressing windows key plus r, then type “notepad” without the quotes, now push and hold control and shift at the same time, and push enter.)

 

• Press alt plus Y when the user account control dialogue pops up. Now, press control plus o to open a new file.

 

• Now press control plus l, which will take you to the address bar, and delete the current address. Paste the following address instead, and hit enter:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Freedom Scientific\Shared\Eloquence\6.1

 

• Presently, tab until you find the field “files of type,” and in this combo box choose “all files.”  Now in this same dialogue, get back to the explorer where the files are  shown, and look for the file called “ELOQMAIN,” and open it.

 

• Now go to the end of the document by pressing control plus end, and paste the following notations:

 

 

Voila `[.0vwa.1la]

VOILA `[.0vwa.1la]

voila `[.0vwa.1la]

Vernissage `[.2ver.0nX.1saZ]

VERNISSAGE `[.2ver.0nX.1saZ]

vernissage `[.2ver.0nX.1saZ]

Descartes `[.0de.1kart]

DESCARTES `[.0de.1kart]

descartes `[.0de.1kart]

Sisyphean `[.2sI.0sX.1fi.0Xn]

SISYPHEAN `[.2sI.0sX.1fi.0Xn]

sisyphean `[.2sI.0sX.1fi.0Xn]

 

End of notations.

 

Once you have pasted  the notations, save the document and exit. Come back to this document, and check again how the words in the beginning of the instructions are pronounced.

By this time you will have noticed that every word has three entries. This would not be the case if Jaws added  support for a root file and an abbreviation file.  The essential difference between a root dictionary file and a main dictionary file is that a root  dictionary file is non-case-sensitive.  Of course, Eloquence supports the three dictionary files, but it is just a real mystery why it haven’t been included.  Not only this, but according to the documentation available, the three dictionary files can be added for several languages supported, such as Spanish and German.

Back to the notations, those of you who are observant  will have noticed that the notations include three essential elements to define the pronunciation of a word, namely, syllable boundaries, primary and secondary stress, and the actual phoneme.

As for the example that Annabelle brought up,  namely, the pronunciation of son-in-law, there is a serious  difficulty, again, in my humble opinion, which would be the way how Jaws usually reads  compound words because Jaws doesn’t seem to interpret the dash symbol  in the middle of a text as a lexical unit; however, I know that I can be wrong.  It would be helpful, however, if someone knew how to make Jaws  send the compound words to the synth as a lexical unit.

 

If somebody is interested, There is someone who goes by the name Amir, and he has been building a dictionary file for long time, including hundreds of fixed words. So, let me know in case you want the file.

 

Also, the you can find the online documentation  in this link:

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/fr/SSMQSV_6.1.1/com.ibm.voicetools.ssml.doc/ssml_sprs_intro.html#ssml_sprs_intro

 

Last but not least, I wrote months ago to FS support requesting if they could make available more functionality  to improve the pronunciation of Eloquence, and I even explained everything that I have written here, but I never got a response.

I also wrote to CodeFactory, since I bought  years ago Eloquence for Windows SAPI 5,  asking for a way to add SAPI 5 phonemes to the user dictionary, but nothing has ever happened.

 

 

Best,

Leo Bado

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 12:49 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?

 

On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 06:54 AM, Leo wrote:

But users don’t seem to care too much about it, partly because people don’t understand the difference between orthographic  and phonetic representation.

-
Which is understandable, after all.  But, that being said, those users can use the "Mute this topic" feature.

How to get maximum possible control over pronunciation in a given synth is something I'd have to believe a certain subset on any screen reader group would have keen interest in.  And those who don't have an easy way to silence the topic itself.

I'll post my tutorial again, as it never hurts for the newer members on high-traffic groups to be aware of their options with the Groups.io service:  

Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io (docx)

Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io  (PDF)


--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Friendship. . . Intimacy, untroubled by eros.

         ~ Kim Chernin

 

 


moderated Re: question about uninstalling Jaws

Tony Schnurr
 

Madison,
You should just be able to go into add and remove programs and select the older version of jaws for removal.
Note, there is one very important step to remember during the uninstall process. When when prompted whether or not you wish to remove shared components; select know. In this way any components that are shared between versions of jaws will remain. The only time you should remove shared components is when you’re trying to completely clean jaws off of a system.
Regards.
Tony

On Mar 2, 2022, at 10:20, Madison Martin <Madison.Martin2000@...> wrote:

Hi all,
Is it possible to uninstall a specific version of Jaws without uninstalling the
whole program? I ask because I discovered that I still have Jaws 2013 on my old
laptop but yet when I use it it's 2021 that I'm using. If this is possible then
how do I do this? Thanks for any help anyone can provide me!
Madison






moderated question about uninstalling Jaws

Madison Martin
 

Hi all,
Is it possible to uninstall a specific version of Jaws without uninstalling the
whole program? I ask because I discovered that I still have Jaws 2013 on my old
laptop but yet when I use it it's 2021 that I'm using. If this is possible then
how do I do this? Thanks for any help anyone can provide me!
Madison


moderated Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?

Leo
 

I don’t actually know if the Eloquence dictionary file does not take the hyphenated words  as lexical units because some kind of support must be added, or because Jaws is incapable of sending the hyphen to the synth, or even both.  As for other synthesizers such as vocalizer or Eloquence for Windows,  each one has their own native representation. The problem for the user is getting to know where to add those entries. This is why is really important that the companies behind the engines add this kind of support  for the custom user’s dictionaries.

 

 

Best,

Leo Bado

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Annabelle Susan Morison
Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2022 8:59 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?

 

Yaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy! That time it actually worked! Now I'd like to find out how to do the ones for those "in-law" compounds. Would it be the same way as what you described in your previous email? Better yet, would it work with other synthesizers as well? Like Vocalizer, for example?

On 03/02/2022 6:38 AM Leo <literophilus@...> wrote:

 

 

I’m sorry, the format changed when I pasted the notations in the e-mail message. You can fix it easily though.

Open the dictionary file again,  and for each line delete the blank space between the lexical unit and the sign ` and insert a tabulation. Here is an example:

Incorrect:

Voila `[.0vwa.1la]

Correct:

Voila `[.0vwa.1la]

 

Do the same for every single entry, and don’t forget always opening the notepad as administrator and saving all changes.

 

Best,

Leo Bado

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Annabelle Susan Morison
Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2022 4:57 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?

 

Hey Leo!

I tried your suggestion, note-for-note, and when I typed "voila", in a regular notepad file after saving the dictionary file as instructed, the pronunciation didn't change! What did I do wrong? Is there something I was forgetting?

On 03/01/2022 12:06 PM Leo <literophilus@...> wrote:

 

 

OK folks,

first and foremost, I want to respond to Annabelle since she brought up this matter.

I’m 99.9 percent sure that the Jaws dictionary manager does not support any SSML tag. My reasoning is quite simple even though I’m far, far away from being an expert or a developer. The documentation related to the synth states that, for the matter of defining the specific pronunciation of a word, either IPA or SPR translation  must be used. Now, here comes the key to understand the difference between orthographic and phonetic representation. Both IPA and SPR are systems that represent phonemes whereas orthographic representation is what the Jaws dictionary manager really supports, and this is the reality for most synthesizers nowadays because the companies behind these synthesizers either neglect users or consider users  incapable of dealing with this particular feature of the speech engines.

Now, let’s go back and have a real quick glimpse  into both IPA and SPR. IPA stands for international phonetic alphabet, and it is largely used by linguists, general dictionaries, and people learning languages  to check the standardized way of how a particular sound in any given language is represented.  On the flipside, SPR stands for symbolic phonetic representation, and it is specifically used by the IBM speech engine  as an built-in feature through which the synth interprets  how a particular word is pronounced.

Well, it happens to be that this same built-in feature, SPR, is present in all the engines derived from the IBM engine, such as via voice and of course, eloquence.

Now, before diving into how to add a new entry using SPR, I want to give you my 2 cent worth  on modifying  inflection, pitch, and even intonation.

As I told you, I’m not a developer, but I’ve read developer’s opinions in this regard indicating that this is only possible via using developer’s kits and tools, and knowing exactly what you’re doing since, particularly the aspects of inflection and intonation are not as simple as they look.  Of course, if you want the changes to be permanent. For any other purpose, you should ask the guys who use some tags to make Eloquence able to sing.

 

OK, let’s put the show truly on the road:

 

If you haven’t made any modification to the following words, you will notice how terribly such a words are pronounced by eloquence:

Voila

vernissage

Descartes

Sisyphean

 

Let’s create the necessary entries to teach this Eloquence guy how to pronounce standard American English.

 

For those who want to know how this works, you may want to follow these instructions:

•    In your computer, launch  the notepad app as administrator. (You can do it easily by pressing windows key plus r, then type “notepad” without the quotes, now push and hold control and shift at the same time, and push enter.)

 

• Press alt plus Y when the user account control dialogue pops up. Now, press control plus o to open a new file.

 

• Now press control plus l, which will take you to the address bar, and delete the current address. Paste the following address instead, and hit enter:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Freedom Scientific\Shared\Eloquence\6.1

 

• Presently, tab until you find the field “files of type,” and in this combo box choose “all files.”  Now in this same dialogue, get back to the explorer where the files are  shown, and look for the file called “ELOQMAIN,” and open it.

 

• Now go to the end of the document by pressing control plus end, and paste the following notations:

 

 

Voila `[.0vwa.1la]

VOILA `[.0vwa.1la]

voila `[.0vwa.1la]

Vernissage `[.2ver.0nX.1saZ]

VERNISSAGE `[.2ver.0nX.1saZ]

vernissage `[.2ver.0nX.1saZ]

Descartes `[.0de.1kart]

DESCARTES `[.0de.1kart]

descartes `[.0de.1kart]

Sisyphean `[.2sI.0sX.1fi.0Xn]

SISYPHEAN `[.2sI.0sX.1fi.0Xn]

sisyphean `[.2sI.0sX.1fi.0Xn]

 

End of notations.

 

Once you have pasted  the notations, save the document and exit. Come back to this document, and check again how the words in the beginning of the instructions are pronounced.

By this time you will have noticed that every word has three entries. This would not be the case if Jaws added  support for a root file and an abbreviation file.  The essential difference between a root dictionary file and a main dictionary file is that a root  dictionary file is non-case-sensitive.  Of course, Eloquence supports the three dictionary files, but it is just a real mystery why it haven’t been included.  Not only this, but according to the documentation available, the three dictionary files can be added for several languages supported, such as Spanish and German.

Back to the notations, those of you who are observant  will have noticed that the notations include three essential elements to define the pronunciation of a word, namely, syllable boundaries, primary and secondary stress, and the actual phoneme.

As for the example that Annabelle brought up,  namely, the pronunciation of son-in-law, there is a serious  difficulty, again, in my humble opinion, which would be the way how Jaws usually reads  compound words because Jaws doesn’t seem to interpret the dash symbol  in the middle of a text as a lexical unit; however, I know that I can be wrong.  It would be helpful, however, if someone knew how to make Jaws  send the compound words to the synth as a lexical unit.

 

If somebody is interested, There is someone who goes by the name Amir, and he has been building a dictionary file for long time, including hundreds of fixed words. So, let me know in case you want the file.

 

Also, the you can find the online documentation  in this link:

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/fr/SSMQSV_6.1.1/com.ibm.voicetools.ssml.doc/ssml_sprs_intro.html#ssml_sprs_intro

 

Last but not least, I wrote months ago to FS support requesting if they could make available more functionality  to improve the pronunciation of Eloquence, and I even explained everything that I have written here, but I never got a response.

I also wrote to CodeFactory, since I bought  years ago Eloquence for Windows SAPI 5,  asking for a way to add SAPI 5 phonemes to the user dictionary, but nothing has ever happened.

 

 

Best,

Leo Bado

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 12:49 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?

 

On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 06:54 AM, Leo wrote:

But users don’t seem to care too much about it, partly because people don’t understand the difference between orthographic  and phonetic representation.

-
Which is understandable, after all.  But, that being said, those users can use the "Mute this topic" feature.

How to get maximum possible control over pronunciation in a given synth is something I'd have to believe a certain subset on any screen reader group would have keen interest in.  And those who don't have an easy way to silence the topic itself.

I'll post my tutorial again, as it never hurts for the newer members on high-traffic groups to be aware of their options with the Groups.io service:  

Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io (docx)

Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io  (PDF)

 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Friendship. . . Intimacy, untroubled by eros.

         ~ Kim Chernin

 

 


moderated Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?

Leo
 

Well, I do think that  using orthographic representation is, to some extent,  useful sometimes.

 

 

Best,

Leo Bado

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2022 2:23 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?

 

Leo,

Do remember, though, that it's generally not the screen reader makers who do or do not support what a synth will accept as the "replacement string" directly.  It's the synth makers that do this.

I'm just curious if you've ever tried a straight orthographic representation for the match string, but one of your "fully annotated" strings that the synth should be able to interpret natively for the replacement string in the regular JAWS dictionary?

I've also yet to see any of the screen readers place any restrictions on what you can enter for your match string and replacement string.  But it's been ages since I last did JAWS dictionary related work, so that may have changed.  I've become very accustomed to using regular expression matching in NVDA.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Friendship. . . Intimacy, untroubled by eros.

         ~ Kim Chernin


moderated Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?

 

On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 09:59 AM, Mario wrote:
This works in websites that have been correctly tagged or what ever the terminology is, but why not for documents in documents in Word, Notepad, and other programs that provide the editing of text?
-
You've answered your own question.  If you want automatic language switching the author of whatever document, whether web page, word, or whatever, needs to use the language tagging feature when composing said document.

The screen readers don't divine that the language has changed, they base what they're doing on tagging when multiple languages are in use.  It's really fun to hear any foreign language file read in whatever the native language the screen reader is using when no tagging is involved.  Using the phonotactic constraints of one language to pronounce another always produces interesting, and often incomprehensible, results.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Friendship. . . Intimacy, untroubled by eros.

         ~ Kim Chernin


moderated Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?

Annabelle Susan Morison
 

Yaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy! That time it actually worked! Now I'd like to find out how to do the ones for those "in-law" compounds. Would it be the same way as what you described in your previous email? Better yet, would it work with other synthesizers as well? Like Vocalizer, for example?

On 03/02/2022 6:38 AM Leo <literophilus@...> wrote:


I’m sorry, the format changed when I pasted the notations in the e-mail message. You can fix it easily though.

Open the dictionary file again,  and for each line delete the blank space between the lexical unit and the sign ` and insert a tabulation. Here is an example:

Incorrect:

Voila `[.0vwa.1la]

Correct:

Voila `[.0vwa.1la]


Do the same for every single entry, and don’t forget always opening the notepad as administrator and saving all changes.


Best,

Leo Bado


From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Annabelle Susan Morison
Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2022 4:57 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?


Hey Leo!

I tried your suggestion, note-for-note, and when I typed "voila", in a regular notepad file after saving the dictionary file as instructed, the pronunciation didn't change! What did I do wrong? Is there something I was forgetting?

On 03/01/2022 12:06 PM Leo <literophilus@...> wrote:



OK folks,

first and foremost, I want to respond to Annabelle since she brought up this matter.

I’m 99.9 percent sure that the Jaws dictionary manager does not support any SSML tag. My reasoning is quite simple even though I’m far, far away from being an expert or a developer. The documentation related to the synth states that, for the matter of defining the specific pronunciation of a word, either IPA or SPR translation  must be used. Now, here comes the key to understand the difference between orthographic and phonetic representation. Both IPA and SPR are systems that represent phonemes whereas orthographic representation is what the Jaws dictionary manager really supports, and this is the reality for most synthesizers nowadays because the companies behind these synthesizers either neglect users or consider users  incapable of dealing with this particular feature of the speech engines.

Now, let’s go back and have a real quick glimpse  into both IPA and SPR. IPA stands for international phonetic alphabet, and it is largely used by linguists, general dictionaries, and people learning languages  to check the standardized way of how a particular sound in any given language is represented.  On the flipside, SPR stands for symbolic phonetic representation, and it is specifically used by the IBM speech engine  as an built-in feature through which the synth interprets  how a particular word is pronounced.

Well, it happens to be that this same built-in feature, SPR, is present in all the engines derived from the IBM engine, such as via voice and of course, eloquence.

Now, before diving into how to add a new entry using SPR, I want to give you my 2 cent worth  on modifying  inflection, pitch, and even intonation.

As I told you, I’m not a developer, but I’ve read developer’s opinions in this regard indicating that this is only possible via using developer’s kits and tools, and knowing exactly what you’re doing since, particularly the aspects of inflection and intonation are not as simple as they look.  Of course, if you want the changes to be permanent. For any other purpose, you should ask the guys who use some tags to make Eloquence able to sing.

 

OK, let’s put the show truly on the road:

 

If you haven’t made any modification to the following words, you will notice how terribly such a words are pronounced by eloquence:

Voila

vernissage

Descartes

Sisyphean

 

Let’s create the necessary entries to teach this Eloquence guy how to pronounce standard American English.

 

For those who want to know how this works, you may want to follow these instructions:

•    In your computer, launch  the notepad app as administrator. (You can do it easily by pressing windows key plus r, then type “notepad” without the quotes, now push and hold control and shift at the same time, and push enter.)

 

• Press alt plus Y when the user account control dialogue pops up. Now, press control plus o to open a new file.

 

• Now press control plus l, which will take you to the address bar, and delete the current address. Paste the following address instead, and hit enter:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Freedom Scientific\Shared\Eloquence\6.1

 

• Presently, tab until you find the field “files of type,” and in this combo box choose “all files.”  Now in this same dialogue, get back to the explorer where the files are  shown, and look for the file called “ELOQMAIN,” and open it.

 

• Now go to the end of the document by pressing control plus end, and paste the following notations:

 

 

Voila `[.0vwa.1la]

VOILA `[.0vwa.1la]

voila `[.0vwa.1la]

Vernissage `[.2ver.0nX.1saZ]

VERNISSAGE `[.2ver.0nX.1saZ]

vernissage `[.2ver.0nX.1saZ]

Descartes `[.0de.1kart]

DESCARTES `[.0de.1kart]

descartes `[.0de.1kart]

Sisyphean `[.2sI.0sX.1fi.0Xn]

SISYPHEAN `[.2sI.0sX.1fi.0Xn]

sisyphean `[.2sI.0sX.1fi.0Xn]

 

End of notations.

 

Once you have pasted  the notations, save the document and exit. Come back to this document, and check again how the words in the beginning of the instructions are pronounced.

By this time you will have noticed that every word has three entries. This would not be the case if Jaws added  support for a root file and an abbreviation file.  The essential difference between a root dictionary file and a main dictionary file is that a root  dictionary file is non-case-sensitive.  Of course, Eloquence supports the three dictionary files, but it is just a real mystery why it haven’t been included.  Not only this, but according to the documentation available, the three dictionary files can be added for several languages supported, such as Spanish and German.

Back to the notations, those of you who are observant  will have noticed that the notations include three essential elements to define the pronunciation of a word, namely, syllable boundaries, primary and secondary stress, and the actual phoneme.

As for the example that Annabelle brought up,  namely, the pronunciation of son-in-law, there is a serious  difficulty, again, in my humble opinion, which would be the way how Jaws usually reads  compound words because Jaws doesn’t seem to interpret the dash symbol  in the middle of a text as a lexical unit; however, I know that I can be wrong.  It would be helpful, however, if someone knew how to make Jaws  send the compound words to the synth as a lexical unit.

 

If somebody is interested, There is someone who goes by the name Amir, and he has been building a dictionary file for long time, including hundreds of fixed words. So, let me know in case you want the file.

 

Also, the you can find the online documentation  in this link:

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/fr/SSMQSV_6.1.1/com.ibm.voicetools.ssml.doc/ssml_sprs_intro.html#ssml_sprs_intro

 

Last but not least, I wrote months ago to FS support requesting if they could make available more functionality  to improve the pronunciation of Eloquence, and I even explained everything that I have written here, but I never got a response.

I also wrote to CodeFactory, since I bought  years ago Eloquence for Windows SAPI 5,  asking for a way to add SAPI 5 phonemes to the user dictionary, but nothing has ever happened.

 


Best,

Leo Bado


From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 12:49 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?


On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 06:54 AM, Leo wrote:

But users don’t seem to care too much about it, partly because people don’t understand the difference between orthographic  and phonetic representation.

-
Which is understandable, after all.  But, that being said, those users can use the "Mute this topic" feature.

How to get maximum possible control over pronunciation in a given synth is something I'd have to believe a certain subset on any screen reader group would have keen interest in.  And those who don't have an easy way to silence the topic itself.

I'll post my tutorial again, as it never hurts for the newer members on high-traffic groups to be aware of their options with the Groups.io service:  

Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io (docx)

Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io  (PDF)

 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Friendship. . . Intimacy, untroubled by eros.

         ~ Kim Chernin




moderated Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?

Mario
 

What I would do is to add an entry to the JAWS dictionary, in this case, adding voila and typing vwa la for the replacement. Since the word voila is a French word, I'm surprised that FS hadn't made JAWS able to correctly pronounce this word even if the rest of the words in the document are in English.

This works in websites that have been correctly tagged or what ever the terminology is, but why not for documents in documents in Word, Notepad, and other programs that provide the editing of text?

-------- Original Message --------
From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Subject: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?
Date: Tuesday, March 1, 2022, 3:22 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Leo,

Do remember, though, that it's generally not the screen reader makers
who do or do not support what a synth will accept as the "replacement
string" directly.  It's the synth makers that do this.

I'm just curious if you've ever tried a straight orthographic
representation for the match string, but one of your "fully annotated"
strings that the synth should be able to interpret natively for the
replacement string in the regular JAWS dictionary?

I've also yet to see any of the screen readers place any restrictions on
what you can enter for your match string and replacement string.  But
it's been ages since I last did JAWS dictionary related work, so that
may have changed.  I've become very accustomed to using regular
expression matching in NVDA.
--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*/Friendship. . . Intimacy, untroubled by eros./*

~ Kim Chernin


moderated Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?

Leo
 

I’m sorry, the format changed when I pasted the notations in the e-mail message. You can fix it easily though.

Open the dictionary file again,  and for each line delete the blank space between the lexical unit and the sign ` and insert a tabulation. Here is an example:

Incorrect:

Voila `[.0vwa.1la]

Correct:

Voila `[.0vwa.1la]

 

Do the same for every single entry, and don’t forget always opening the notepad as administrator and saving all changes.

 

Best,

Leo Bado

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Annabelle Susan Morison
Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2022 4:57 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?

 

Hey Leo!

I tried your suggestion, note-for-note, and when I typed "voila", in a regular notepad file after saving the dictionary file as instructed, the pronunciation didn't change! What did I do wrong? Is there something I was forgetting?

On 03/01/2022 12:06 PM Leo <literophilus@...> wrote:

 

 

OK folks,

first and foremost, I want to respond to Annabelle since she brought up this matter.

I’m 99.9 percent sure that the Jaws dictionary manager does not support any SSML tag. My reasoning is quite simple even though I’m far, far away from being an expert or a developer. The documentation related to the synth states that, for the matter of defining the specific pronunciation of a word, either IPA or SPR translation  must be used. Now, here comes the key to understand the difference between orthographic and phonetic representation. Both IPA and SPR are systems that represent phonemes whereas orthographic representation is what the Jaws dictionary manager really supports, and this is the reality for most synthesizers nowadays because the companies behind these synthesizers either neglect users or consider users  incapable of dealing with this particular feature of the speech engines.

Now, let’s go back and have a real quick glimpse  into both IPA and SPR. IPA stands for international phonetic alphabet, and it is largely used by linguists, general dictionaries, and people learning languages  to check the standardized way of how a particular sound in any given language is represented.  On the flipside, SPR stands for symbolic phonetic representation, and it is specifically used by the IBM speech engine  as an built-in feature through which the synth interprets  how a particular word is pronounced.

Well, it happens to be that this same built-in feature, SPR, is present in all the engines derived from the IBM engine, such as via voice and of course, eloquence.

Now, before diving into how to add a new entry using SPR, I want to give you my 2 cent worth  on modifying  inflection, pitch, and even intonation.

As I told you, I’m not a developer, but I’ve read developer’s opinions in this regard indicating that this is only possible via using developer’s kits and tools, and knowing exactly what you’re doing since, particularly the aspects of inflection and intonation are not as simple as they look.  Of course, if you want the changes to be permanent. For any other purpose, you should ask the guys who use some tags to make Eloquence able to sing.

 

OK, let’s put the show truly on the road:

 

If you haven’t made any modification to the following words, you will notice how terribly such a words are pronounced by eloquence:

Voila

vernissage

Descartes

Sisyphean

 

Let’s create the necessary entries to teach this Eloquence guy how to pronounce standard American English.

 

For those who want to know how this works, you may want to follow these instructions:

•    In your computer, launch  the notepad app as administrator. (You can do it easily by pressing windows key plus r, then type “notepad” without the quotes, now push and hold control and shift at the same time, and push enter.)

 

• Press alt plus Y when the user account control dialogue pops up. Now, press control plus o to open a new file.

 

• Now press control plus l, which will take you to the address bar, and delete the current address. Paste the following address instead, and hit enter:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Freedom Scientific\Shared\Eloquence\6.1

 

• Presently, tab until you find the field “files of type,” and in this combo box choose “all files.”  Now in this same dialogue, get back to the explorer where the files are  shown, and look for the file called “ELOQMAIN,” and open it.

 

• Now go to the end of the document by pressing control plus end, and paste the following notations:

 

 

Voila `[.0vwa.1la]

VOILA `[.0vwa.1la]

voila `[.0vwa.1la]

Vernissage `[.2ver.0nX.1saZ]

VERNISSAGE `[.2ver.0nX.1saZ]

vernissage `[.2ver.0nX.1saZ]

Descartes `[.0de.1kart]

DESCARTES `[.0de.1kart]

descartes `[.0de.1kart]

Sisyphean `[.2sI.0sX.1fi.0Xn]

SISYPHEAN `[.2sI.0sX.1fi.0Xn]

sisyphean `[.2sI.0sX.1fi.0Xn]

 

End of notations.

 

Once you have pasted  the notations, save the document and exit. Come back to this document, and check again how the words in the beginning of the instructions are pronounced.

By this time you will have noticed that every word has three entries. This would not be the case if Jaws added  support for a root file and an abbreviation file.  The essential difference between a root dictionary file and a main dictionary file is that a root  dictionary file is non-case-sensitive.  Of course, Eloquence supports the three dictionary files, but it is just a real mystery why it haven’t been included.  Not only this, but according to the documentation available, the three dictionary files can be added for several languages supported, such as Spanish and German.

Back to the notations, those of you who are observant  will have noticed that the notations include three essential elements to define the pronunciation of a word, namely, syllable boundaries, primary and secondary stress, and the actual phoneme.

As for the example that Annabelle brought up,  namely, the pronunciation of son-in-law, there is a serious  difficulty, again, in my humble opinion, which would be the way how Jaws usually reads  compound words because Jaws doesn’t seem to interpret the dash symbol  in the middle of a text as a lexical unit; however, I know that I can be wrong.  It would be helpful, however, if someone knew how to make Jaws  send the compound words to the synth as a lexical unit.

 

If somebody is interested, There is someone who goes by the name Amir, and he has been building a dictionary file for long time, including hundreds of fixed words. So, let me know in case you want the file.

 

Also, the you can find the online documentation  in this link:

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/fr/SSMQSV_6.1.1/com.ibm.voicetools.ssml.doc/ssml_sprs_intro.html#ssml_sprs_intro

 

Last but not least, I wrote months ago to FS support requesting if they could make available more functionality  to improve the pronunciation of Eloquence, and I even explained everything that I have written here, but I never got a response.

I also wrote to CodeFactory, since I bought  years ago Eloquence for Windows SAPI 5,  asking for a way to add SAPI 5 phonemes to the user dictionary, but nothing has ever happened.

 

 

Best,

Leo Bado

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 12:49 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?

 

On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 06:54 AM, Leo wrote:

But users don’t seem to care too much about it, partly because people don’t understand the difference between orthographic  and phonetic representation.

-
Which is understandable, after all.  But, that being said, those users can use the "Mute this topic" feature.

How to get maximum possible control over pronunciation in a given synth is something I'd have to believe a certain subset on any screen reader group would have keen interest in.  And those who don't have an easy way to silence the topic itself.

I'll post my tutorial again, as it never hurts for the newer members on high-traffic groups to be aware of their options with the Groups.io service:  

Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io (docx)

Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io  (PDF)

 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Friendship. . . Intimacy, untroubled by eros.

         ~ Kim Chernin

 


moderated Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?

Annabelle Susan Morison
 

Hey Leo!
I tried your suggestion, note-for-note, and when I typed "voila", in a regular notepad file after saving the dictionary file as instructed, the pronunciation didn't change! What did I do wrong? Is there something I was forgetting?

On 03/01/2022 12:06 PM Leo <literophilus@...> wrote:


OK folks,

first and foremost, I want to respond to Annabelle since she brought up this matter.

I’m 99.9 percent sure that the Jaws dictionary manager does not support any SSML tag. My reasoning is quite simple even though I’m far, far away from being an expert or a developer. The documentation related to the synth states that, for the matter of defining the specific pronunciation of a word, either IPA or SPR translation  must be used. Now, here comes the key to understand the difference between orthographic and phonetic representation. Both IPA and SPR are systems that represent phonemes whereas orthographic representation is what the Jaws dictionary manager really supports, and this is the reality for most synthesizers nowadays because the companies behind these synthesizers either neglect users or consider users  incapable of dealing with this particular feature of the speech engines.

Now, let’s go back and have a real quick glimpse  into both IPA and SPR. IPA stands for international phonetic alphabet, and it is largely used by linguists, general dictionaries, and people learning languages  to check the standardized way of how a particular sound in any given language is represented.  On the flipside, SPR stands for symbolic phonetic representation, and it is specifically used by the IBM speech engine  as an built-in feature through which the synth interprets  how a particular word is pronounced.

Well, it happens to be that this same built-in feature, SPR, is present in all the engines derived from the IBM engine, such as via voice and of course, eloquence.

Now, before diving into how to add a new entry using SPR, I want to give you my 2 cent worth  on modifying  inflection, pitch, and even intonation.

As I told you, I’m not a developer, but I’ve read developer’s opinions in this regard indicating that this is only possible via using developer’s kits and tools, and knowing exactly what you’re doing since, particularly the aspects of inflection and intonation are not as simple as they look.  Of course, if you want the changes to be permanent. For any other purpose, you should ask the guys who use some tags to make Eloquence able to sing.

 

OK, let’s put the show truly on the road:

 

If you haven’t made any modification to the following words, you will notice how terribly such a words are pronounced by eloquence:

Voila

vernissage

Descartes

Sisyphean

 

Let’s create the necessary entries to teach this Eloquence guy how to pronounce standard American English.

 

For those who want to know how this works, you may want to follow these instructions:

•    In your computer, launch  the notepad app as administrator. (You can do it easily by pressing windows key plus r, then type “notepad” without the quotes, now push and hold control and shift at the same time, and push enter.)

 

• Press alt plus Y when the user account control dialogue pops up. Now, press control plus o to open a new file.

 

• Now press control plus l, which will take you to the address bar, and delete the current address. Paste the following address instead, and hit enter:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Freedom Scientific\Shared\Eloquence\6.1

 

• Presently, tab until you find the field “files of type,” and in this combo box choose “all files.”  Now in this same dialogue, get back to the explorer where the files are  shown, and look for the file called “ELOQMAIN,” and open it.

 

• Now go to the end of the document by pressing control plus end, and paste the following notations:

 

 

Voila `[.0vwa.1la]

VOILA `[.0vwa.1la]

voila `[.0vwa.1la]

Vernissage `[.2ver.0nX.1saZ]

VERNISSAGE `[.2ver.0nX.1saZ]

vernissage `[.2ver.0nX.1saZ]

Descartes `[.0de.1kart]

DESCARTES `[.0de.1kart]

descartes `[.0de.1kart]

Sisyphean `[.2sI.0sX.1fi.0Xn]

SISYPHEAN `[.2sI.0sX.1fi.0Xn]

sisyphean `[.2sI.0sX.1fi.0Xn]

 

End of notations.

 

Once you have pasted  the notations, save the document and exit. Come back to this document, and check again how the words in the beginning of the instructions are pronounced.

By this time you will have noticed that every word has three entries. This would not be the case if Jaws added  support for a root file and an abbreviation file.  The essential difference between a root dictionary file and a main dictionary file is that a root  dictionary file is non-case-sensitive.  Of course, Eloquence supports the three dictionary files, but it is just a real mystery why it haven’t been included.  Not only this, but according to the documentation available, the three dictionary files can be added for several languages supported, such as Spanish and German.

Back to the notations, those of you who are observant  will have noticed that the notations include three essential elements to define the pronunciation of a word, namely, syllable boundaries, primary and secondary stress, and the actual phoneme.

As for the example that Annabelle brought up,  namely, the pronunciation of son-in-law, there is a serious  difficulty, again, in my humble opinion, which would be the way how Jaws usually reads  compound words because Jaws doesn’t seem to interpret the dash symbol  in the middle of a text as a lexical unit; however, I know that I can be wrong.  It would be helpful, however, if someone knew how to make Jaws  send the compound words to the synth as a lexical unit.

 

If somebody is interested, There is someone who goes by the name Amir, and he has been building a dictionary file for long time, including hundreds of fixed words. So, let me know in case you want the file.

 

Also, the you can find the online documentation  in this link:

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/fr/SSMQSV_6.1.1/com.ibm.voicetools.ssml.doc/ssml_sprs_intro.html#ssml_sprs_intro

 

Last but not least, I wrote months ago to FS support requesting if they could make available more functionality  to improve the pronunciation of Eloquence, and I even explained everything that I have written here, but I never got a response.

I also wrote to CodeFactory, since I bought  years ago Eloquence for Windows SAPI 5,  asking for a way to add SAPI 5 phonemes to the user dictionary, but nothing has ever happened.

 


Best,

Leo Bado


From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 12:49 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Modifying Pronunciations in Eloquence Software: Is it possible?


On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 06:54 AM, Leo wrote:

But users don’t seem to care too much about it, partly because people don’t understand the difference between orthographic  and phonetic representation.

-
Which is understandable, after all.  But, that being said, those users can use the "Mute this topic" feature.

How to get maximum possible control over pronunciation in a given synth is something I'd have to believe a certain subset on any screen reader group would have keen interest in.  And those who don't have an easy way to silence the topic itself.

I'll post my tutorial again, as it never hurts for the newer members on high-traffic groups to be aware of their options with the Groups.io service:  

Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io (docx)

Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io  (PDF)

 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Friendship. . . Intimacy, untroubled by eros.

         ~ Kim Chernin


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