Date   

moderated Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

 

On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 06:15 PM, James Bentley wrote:

I prefer step by step directions that are written for a blind person.

  After all, what are these list for?

-
Well, when I'm writing for the screen reader using audience the style is very different.  It's almost entirely keyboard centric, which is to be expected.  And you're right, if anyone is specifically writing for screen reader users that's as it should be.

That all being said, and accepted, I don't think I or anyone else has argued against this.  I certainly haven't.  But what I have argued is that the only reference material that should be comprehensible and usable by a screen reader user is what is specifically written for them.  I will often post links to step-by-step instructions, that I've reviewed, that were not written for screen reader users that I cannot possibly see as being problematic.  And for reasons already hashed out by several other members and myself.

The world at large is not "the blind world" but the sighted one.  And a lot of instructions for a sighted computer user very, very directly "translate" for a screen reader user.  My example of one being "click on."  I don't care if you've ever seen a screen, or ever used a mouse.  If you've been reading computer instructions it should become obvious, even without formal training, that this means "gain focus on and select" because there is always a control or edit box being clicked on, or in, in those instructions.  Does anyone, seriously, want to argue that everyone reading here should not understand what, "Click on the close button," means and does and how to do it with a screen reader?  I truly, truly hope not.  
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

David Moore
 

The app Telegram is very accessible! You can record voice messages, and people can comment with a voice message' and you can talk to someone live about your question! Is not that better than waiting on an ∈e-mail to get an answer to your question instead of talking back and forth on an app like Telegram, Clubhouse' and so on?


On Tue, May 18, 2021, 5:39 PM Dan Longmore <danlongmore44@...> wrote:

Funny, I note that some of these posts are becoming belittling and condescending.  Just the very issues they claim to object to.

Anyway, Facebook list is fine but not nearly as easy for access as a list such as this.

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 5:07 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

 

There is a great JAWS group on Facebook, and there is much discussionot, because you can comment on posts, talk live to people right there on FB and so on! I think that we should move from e-mail to other social media that is so much more interaction and people can talk back and forth live!

 

On Mon, May 17, 2021, 8:15 PM Larry Wayland <lhwayland@...> wrote:

That is the absolute truth!

Why do we even have these forms if every time someone ask a question they are told to go search on the internet?

Maybe some people like the contact with other people.  Nothing wrong with that. There is one person on here, and he is either on or has been on other forms who can’t answer a question without belittling everyone.  Too bad too because he is very knowledgeable.  Why not just answer the question and go on and don’t worry about all the other stuff. 

Larry

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Diamond
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 5:59 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

 

However, I sure could do without the preaching and belittling that takes place.

 

There is absolutely no reason to keep pointing out well if you did a google search you would of found out….

 

Shan, hope I spelled that correctly, JAWS does not go over your email address letter by letter.  Or, if it does I don’t know how to enable it.  What you describe at the top of this message is arrogance on the person making that comment.  It is talking down to someone. I don’t know if it was me or Google, however, I did a Google search for something and the info I was given was way off base. Thus I would prefer someone do the search for me. If they said, “Well if you did a google search you would of found out….” I ask someone else.       

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shan Noyes
Sent: May 17, 2021 3:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

 

Hi:

 

I also would like to know about the other jfw users list.  I’m happy to hear that the discussion stays on jaws issues more closely.

 

This group list has been pretty good. Some excellent info.  However, I sure could do without the preaching and belittling that takes place.

 

There is absolutely no reason to keep pointing out well if you did a google search you would of found out….

 

Because my approach is there is no dumb questions.  Besides who knows, maybe sure the answer is out on the net, but it was written by a either non jaws user or a sighted person who does use jaws a bit, but also has their screen on.

 

Note: Eric Danbery from Freedom Scientific is fully sighted, but he uses Jaws with his screen turned off to ensure that he is experiencing exactly what Jaws users who can not see the screen are experiencing.

 

It becomes very  important when one has to deal with complicated screen layouts.  Can a person who doesn’t see the screen easily get the information they need or not.

 

So I’ll also go check out the other list.  This list is also pretty good here, but please please everyone remember we are here to support each other.  Not to keep pointing out well if you did a google search….

 

Because the benefit of asking questions of people who use the speech program i.e. Jaws is that sometimes you will get special gems of short cuts etc from them.

 

Have a good day everyone.

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 3:48 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

 

-------------------------------------------------------------
WARNING, this email originated from outside of SaskTel.
Do not click links or open attachments unless you trust the sender and believe the contents are safe.
--------------------------------------------------------------

 

The other JFW list, the JFW-Users list, which was created in 2019 to replace the JAWS-Users list, which was abruptly shut down,  is more closely moderated and discussions that are not relevant to JAWS are not permitted.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/17/2021 4:37 PM, Ken Chernack via groups.io wrote:

Hi Gerald.

 

How does this new/alternative discussion list differ from the one we are using?

 

Are they similar? Same personalities on it? Do they complement each other?

 

Thanks for your assistance/knowledge.

Ken

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 3:07 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: My gripe about all the griping

 

 

The other list is called the JFW-Users list.  To subscribe, send a blank message to:

 

jfw-users+subscribe@groups.io

 

    Gerald

 

 

On 5/17/2021 12:48 PM, Justin Williams wrote:

 

 

What is the othe rlist called?

 

Justin

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 11:46 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: My gripe about all the griping

 

 

Also, the other list has stricter rules against personal attacks and member bashing.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/17/2021 4:35 PM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:



It's easy to get that list and this one mixed up, the other one is more strict about staying on the topic of Jaws.

Glenn

----- Original Message -----

From: CJ &AA MAY

Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 10:32 AM

Subject: Re: My gripe about all the griping

 

My apologies! You are right.

Alison

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: 17 May 2021 16:10
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: My gripe about all the griping

 

On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 10:47 AM, CJ &AA MAY wrote:

I beg to argue, James. I sent a message to the list asking for help as the menu options for my Dymo label printer were not being read a couple of weeks ago.

-
No, you did not.  You sent it to the JFW-Users Group.  Topic:  Dymo Label Printer
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide

NOTICE: This confidential e-mail message is only for the intended recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that disclosing, copying, distributing, or any other use of this message, is strictly prohibited. In such case, please destroy this message and notify the sender.


moderated Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

James Bentley
 

I prefer step by step directions that are written for a blind person.

  After all, what are these list for?

 

However, I am getting much much, better at following directions that are specific to sighted computer users.

 

I love your signature.  So much insight there.

 

James B 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 4:56 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

 

James,

          It is not I, but Orlando, who wants to take away your step-by-step instructions!  ;-)  I simply accept that step-by-step instruction sets need to be updated or rewritten entirely when what they're working with changes significantly.

          That "oso" was a complete accident.  It was supposed to read, "there's a big oops," as in mistake or glitch.  And I'm still using a relatively new to me laptop, and its touchpad is significantly more sensitive and I'm trying to fine tune that, but on occasion I accidentally move my insertion point and don't know it.  Usually I see it and correct whatever mess I've made, but not that time.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

 

James,

          It is not I, but Orlando, who wants to take away your step-by-step instructions!  ;-)  I simply accept that step-by-step instruction sets need to be updated or rewritten entirely when what they're working with changes significantly.

          That "oso" was a complete accident.  It was supposed to read, "there's a big oops," as in mistake or glitch.  And I'm still using a relatively new to me laptop, and its touchpad is significantly more sensitive and I'm trying to fine tune that, but on occasion I accidentally move my insertion point and don't know it.  Usually I see it and correct whatever mess I've made, but not that time.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

Dan Longmore
 

Funny, I note that some of these posts are becoming belittling and condescending.  Just the very issues they claim to object to.

Anyway, Facebook list is fine but not nearly as easy for access as a list such as this.

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 5:07 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

 

There is a great JAWS group on Facebook, and there is much discussionot, because you can comment on posts, talk live to people right there on FB and so on! I think that we should move from e-mail to other social media that is so much more interaction and people can talk back and forth live!

 

On Mon, May 17, 2021, 8:15 PM Larry Wayland <lhwayland@...> wrote:

That is the absolute truth!

Why do we even have these forms if every time someone ask a question they are told to go search on the internet?

Maybe some people like the contact with other people.  Nothing wrong with that. There is one person on here, and he is either on or has been on other forms who can’t answer a question without belittling everyone.  Too bad too because he is very knowledgeable.  Why not just answer the question and go on and don’t worry about all the other stuff. 

Larry

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Diamond
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 5:59 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

 

However, I sure could do without the preaching and belittling that takes place.

 

There is absolutely no reason to keep pointing out well if you did a google search you would of found out….

 

Shan, hope I spelled that correctly, JAWS does not go over your email address letter by letter.  Or, if it does I don’t know how to enable it.  What you describe at the top of this message is arrogance on the person making that comment.  It is talking down to someone. I don’t know if it was me or Google, however, I did a Google search for something and the info I was given was way off base. Thus I would prefer someone do the search for me. If they said, “Well if you did a google search you would of found out….” I ask someone else.       

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shan Noyes
Sent: May 17, 2021 3:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

 

Hi:

 

I also would like to know about the other jfw users list.  I’m happy to hear that the discussion stays on jaws issues more closely.

 

This group list has been pretty good. Some excellent info.  However, I sure could do without the preaching and belittling that takes place.

 

There is absolutely no reason to keep pointing out well if you did a google search you would of found out….

 

Because my approach is there is no dumb questions.  Besides who knows, maybe sure the answer is out on the net, but it was written by a either non jaws user or a sighted person who does use jaws a bit, but also has their screen on.

 

Note: Eric Danbery from Freedom Scientific is fully sighted, but he uses Jaws with his screen turned off to ensure that he is experiencing exactly what Jaws users who can not see the screen are experiencing.

 

It becomes very  important when one has to deal with complicated screen layouts.  Can a person who doesn’t see the screen easily get the information they need or not.

 

So I’ll also go check out the other list.  This list is also pretty good here, but please please everyone remember we are here to support each other.  Not to keep pointing out well if you did a google search….

 

Because the benefit of asking questions of people who use the speech program i.e. Jaws is that sometimes you will get special gems of short cuts etc from them.

 

Have a good day everyone.

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 3:48 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

 

-------------------------------------------------------------
WARNING, this email originated from outside of SaskTel.
Do not click links or open attachments unless you trust the sender and believe the contents are safe.
--------------------------------------------------------------

 

The other JFW list, the JFW-Users list, which was created in 2019 to replace the JAWS-Users list, which was abruptly shut down,  is more closely moderated and discussions that are not relevant to JAWS are not permitted.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/17/2021 4:37 PM, Ken Chernack via groups.io wrote:

Hi Gerald.

 

How does this new/alternative discussion list differ from the one we are using?

 

Are they similar? Same personalities on it? Do they complement each other?

 

Thanks for your assistance/knowledge.

Ken

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 3:07 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: My gripe about all the griping

 

 

The other list is called the JFW-Users list.  To subscribe, send a blank message to:

 

jfw-users+subscribe@groups.io

 

    Gerald

 

 

On 5/17/2021 12:48 PM, Justin Williams wrote:

 

 

What is the othe rlist called?

 

Justin

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 11:46 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: My gripe about all the griping

 

 

Also, the other list has stricter rules against personal attacks and member bashing.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/17/2021 4:35 PM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:



It's easy to get that list and this one mixed up, the other one is more strict about staying on the topic of Jaws.

Glenn

----- Original Message -----

From: CJ &AA MAY

Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 10:32 AM

Subject: Re: My gripe about all the griping

 

My apologies! You are right.

Alison

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: 17 May 2021 16:10
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: My gripe about all the griping

 

On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 10:47 AM, CJ &AA MAY wrote:

I beg to argue, James. I sent a message to the list asking for help as the menu options for my Dymo label printer were not being read a couple of weeks ago.

-
No, you did not.  You sent it to the JFW-Users Group.  Topic:  Dymo Label Printer
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide

NOTICE: This confidential e-mail message is only for the intended recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that disclosing, copying, distributing, or any other use of this message, is strictly prohibited. In such case, please destroy this message and notify the sender.


moderated Re: Outlook Calendar over flow

Michal Nowicki
 

Pressing Enter on the overflow expands the view for that day, allowing to tab to each event.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Van Lant, Robin via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 9:26 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Outlook Calendar over flow

 

Don,

I am at a loss.  I just tried changing multiple types of settings in the calendar view and cannot replicate the issue you are having. I think this is a case where some sighted assistance to see if there is something odd with your layout would be smart. – whether that is taking advantage of the AIRA’s free JAWS help, Microsoft Accessibility, or Vispero.  I really wanted to save the day for  you, but cannot figure this one out.

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don Mauck
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 2:44 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Outlook Calendar over flow

 

I’m using the day view and I always tab through each event on that day. For example, I know that I have four meetings tomorrow but when I tab, I get the first two and then get that over flow. Then it starts to try and look at the next day. It’s really quite a problem since I cannot see all my meetings and I almost missed one this morning.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Van Lant, Robin via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 2:17 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: [External] : Re: Outlook Calendar over flow

 

Which view are you using?  I typically use Day View or week view and don’t think I get this message.  Note that it’s most efficient to use tab to move through appointments. 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don Mauck
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 12:13 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Outlook Calendar over flow

 

WARNING: This email originated externally. Exercise caution. Think before clicking links or opening attachments.

 

Yes, the overflow is on the same date.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Stan Holdeman
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 6:41 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: [External] : Re: Outlook Calendar over flow

 

Are your start and stop dates the same?

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don Mauck
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 4:26 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Outlook Calendar over flow

 

Hi, I’ve had this issue with my calendar where if I have more than two events on a certain day, I get the following message from JAWS and I cannot get to the next appointment for that day.

Message:  Overflow Button navigates to: Tuesday, April 27, 2021, from 12:00am to Wednesday, April 28, 2021 12:00am

I’m using Microsoft Outlook Subscription Version 16.0.12527.21504 any suggestions would be appreciated.

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moderated Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

David Moore
 

There is a great JAWS group on Facebook, and there is much discussionot, because you can comment on posts, talk live to people right there on FB and so on! I think that we should move from ∈e-mail to other social media that is so much more interaction and people can talk back and forth live!


On Mon, May 17, 2021, 8:15 PM Larry Wayland <lhwayland@...> wrote:

That is the absolute truth!

Why do we even have these forms if every time someone ask a question they are told to go search on the internet?

Maybe some people like the contact with other people.  Nothing wrong with that. There is one person on here, and he is either on or has been on other forms who can’t answer a question without belittling everyone.  Too bad too because he is very knowledgeable.  Why not just answer the question and go on and don’t worry about all the other stuff. 

Larry

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Diamond
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 5:59 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

 

However, I sure could do without the preaching and belittling that takes place.

 

There is absolutely no reason to keep pointing out well if you did a google search you would of found out….

 

Shan, hope I spelled that correctly, JAWS does not go over your email address letter by letter.  Or, if it does I don’t know how to enable it.  What you describe at the top of this message is arrogance on the person making that comment.  It is talking down to someone. I don’t know if it was me or Google, however, I did a Google search for something and the info I was given was way off base. Thus I would prefer someone do the search for me. If they said, “Well if you did a google search you would of found out….” I ask someone else.       

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shan Noyes
Sent: May 17, 2021 3:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

 

Hi:

 

I also would like to know about the other jfw users list.  I’m happy to hear that the discussion stays on jaws issues more closely.

 

This group list has been pretty good. Some excellent info.  However, I sure could do without the preaching and belittling that takes place.

 

There is absolutely no reason to keep pointing out well if you did a google search you would of found out….

 

Because my approach is there is no dumb questions.  Besides who knows, maybe sure the answer is out on the net, but it was written by a either non jaws user or a sighted person who does use jaws a bit, but also has their screen on.

 

Note: Eric Danbery from Freedom Scientific is fully sighted, but he uses Jaws with his screen turned off to ensure that he is experiencing exactly what Jaws users who can not see the screen are experiencing.

 

It becomes very  important when one has to deal with complicated screen layouts.  Can a person who doesn’t see the screen easily get the information they need or not.

 

So I’ll also go check out the other list.  This list is also pretty good here, but please please everyone remember we are here to support each other.  Not to keep pointing out well if you did a google search….

 

Because the benefit of asking questions of people who use the speech program i.e. Jaws is that sometimes you will get special gems of short cuts etc from them.

 

Have a good day everyone.

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 3:48 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

 

-------------------------------------------------------------
WARNING, this email originated from outside of SaskTel.
Do not click links or open attachments unless you trust the sender and believe the contents are safe.
--------------------------------------------------------------

 

The other JFW list, the JFW-Users list, which was created in 2019 to replace the JAWS-Users list, which was abruptly shut down,  is more closely moderated and discussions that are not relevant to JAWS are not permitted.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/17/2021 4:37 PM, Ken Chernack via groups.io wrote:

Hi Gerald.

 

How does this new/alternative discussion list differ from the one we are using?

 

Are they similar? Same personalities on it? Do they complement each other?

 

Thanks for your assistance/knowledge.

Ken

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 3:07 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: My gripe about all the griping

 

 

The other list is called the JFW-Users list.  To subscribe, send a blank message to:

 

jfw-users+subscribe@groups.io

 

    Gerald

 

 

On 5/17/2021 12:48 PM, Justin Williams wrote:

 

 

What is the othe rlist called?

 

Justin

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 11:46 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: My gripe about all the griping

 

 

Also, the other list has stricter rules against personal attacks and member bashing.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/17/2021 4:35 PM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:



It's easy to get that list and this one mixed up, the other one is more strict about staying on the topic of Jaws.

Glenn

----- Original Message -----

From: CJ &AA MAY

Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 10:32 AM

Subject: Re: My gripe about all the griping

 

My apologies! You are right.

Alison

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: 17 May 2021 16:10
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: My gripe about all the griping

 

On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 10:47 AM, CJ &AA MAY wrote:

I beg to argue, James. I sent a message to the list asking for help as the menu options for my Dymo label printer were not being read a couple of weeks ago.

-
No, you did not.  You sent it to the JFW-Users Group.  Topic:  Dymo Label Printer
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide

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moderated Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

Marty Hutchings
 

Instead of Key stroke, maybe it should have been key strike.

On 5/18/2021 10:52 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 12:46 PM, Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
[In reference to the meaning of keystroke.] Sorry, but I'm not buying.
-
Sorry, darlin', but you're not buying the definition most commonly used for a word doesn't change the fact that it is its definition.

keystroke on Onelook.com

You're very simply not only being idiosyncratic, you're actually factually incorrect and muddying the waters.  Your opinion does not matter when it comes to commonly accepted definitions (and I hasten to add, nor does mine).  People use words as they're commonly defined to communicate shared meaning.  You don't get to pick your own. 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: JAWS And Microsoft Office 365 Spellings

Steven Hicks
 

Briliant, thanks, it was the shift+f10 that I was missing, I will give it a try.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Turner
Sent: 16 May 2021 15:55
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS And Microsoft Office 365 Spellings

 

If you put focus on the word, press shift+f10 or your applications key, and arrow up, Jaws may give you some spelling options.  If the word is too far off, then you would just have to try another spelling to get close enough to get suggestions.

If it shows the word you want, hit enter on it and it should replace the word in your document.

 

 

Richard

"The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it."

- John Ruskin, 1819-1900

 

Web site: www.turner42.com

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steven Hicks
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2021 7:28 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: JAWS And Microsoft Office 365 Spellings

 

Hi friends,

 

Can anyone just confirm how this works please, when I am typing and I make an error, there is a sound to indicate it, if there is an auto correct option how would I review that and accept it if it is the one I would like please?

 


moderated Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

James Bentley
 

Brian, please don't take away my step by step directions. I'll jump in
front of a fast moving train. LOL.

And, is OSO an English word. An acronym? Or what?

Cheers,

James B

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Orlando Enrique
Fiol via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 12:39 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

At 01:04 PM 5/18/2021, Brian Vogel wrote:
>It is very difficult to get those who don't use screen readers to
>actually separate the concepts of "gain focus on" and "select" and
>"activate" because a single click on something gains you focus on it
>and selects it at a minimum. And in the case of doing so on a link,
>it does all three at one time. You most often get a sense of whether
>activation is involved as an atomic element of that click based on
>what the following instruction states. If it's something like, "Now,
>in the dialog that appears . . .," you can pretty much assume that a
>point and click instruction is an instance where all three actions
>were rolled into one single click.

Very well put. We should also assume that we'll handle selection
using cursoring keys: arrows, tab, shift+tab, etc. So, even if those
keys are never mentioned in instructions, we should try them all
until we actually move where we need to be.

>Another of my "things" is emphasizing that you (any you) must read
>through an instruction set completely before even setting out with the
>first one, and not just in computing. My own partner drives me
>insane because he doesn't do this routinely, and I can't count the
>number of times, when cooking, there's a big oso because an
>ingredient not mentioned in the ingredient list (it happens) isn't in
>the house or he skips something because he never read it through first
>and was in a rush.

Well, a recipe ingredient list should be completely comprehensive,
even if it indicates things such as "salt and pepper to taste" at the end.

>There are too many potential pitfalls in any
>complex instruction set, even those in step-by-step format, for it to
>be a good idea to start and hope you make it through unscathed without
>ever having read them first.


Better still, we need to move away from step-by-step instructions
because steps may vary considerably between user configurations and
*definitely* between Windows editions. just try to navigate to the
Advanced tab under Users and Groups in Windows Home. Not there!
Orlando Enrique Fiol
Charlotte, North Carolina
Professional Pianist/Keyboardist, Percussionist and Pedagogue
Ph.D. in Music theory
University of Pennsylvania: November, 2018
Home: (980) 585-1516
Mobile: (267) 971-7090


moderated Re: Malwarebytes Tray Application

Andy
 

Or just hit ALT F4.

Andy

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Ford" <ttford@gmail.com>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: Malwarebytes Tray Application


Yes there is a way to close that window. It pops up every time you boot your computer. Use alt + tab until JAWS announces the Megabytes window is in focus. Press alt + space bar, and up-arrow until you hear "close". Press enter and it is gone.

Tim Ford


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robbie Curtis
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 10:58 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: MalwareBytes Tray Application

Good Afternoon All,


For those of you using MalwareBytes, is there a way to get rid of the tray application window since it is not accessible? Thanks.


moderated Re: keystrokes

Richard Turner
 

Mariam Webster Dictionary:

Keystroke, Noun:

the act or an instance of depressing a key on a keyboard

 

 

 

Richard

"The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it."

- John Ruskin, 1819-1900

 

Web site: www.turner42.com

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 10:38 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: keystrokes

 

As a now long lost cyber-acquaintance used to say:  Context, Context, Context!!

Keystroke is unambiguous in computing terminology, which is what we're using on a group such as this.  Nothing you say can or will change that.  The untold millions of references to keystrokes in formal documentation are in no way unclear.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Malwarebytes Tray Application

Tim Ford
 

Yes there is a way to close that window. It pops up every time you boot your computer. Use alt + tab until JAWS announces the Megabytes window is in focus. Press alt + space bar, and up-arrow until you hear "close". Press enter and it is gone.

Tim Ford

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robbie Curtis
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 10:58 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: MalwareBytes Tray Application

Good Afternoon All,


For those of you using MalwareBytes, is there a way to get rid of the tray application window since it is not accessible? Thanks.


moderated Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

 

On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 01:39 PM, Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
Well, a recipe ingredient list should be completely comprehensive, even if it indicates things such as "salt and pepper to taste" at the end.
-
The following is said without a trace of snark at you, but at many recipe writers:  Should be and is are two distinctly different things.

I can think of an example in one of my favorite (and recently published) recipes for shrimp and grits.   For the grits part it gives you the measurements for the grits and the seasonings.  It's not until you get into the bowels of the recipe itself that it states, "Bring 4 1/2 cups of water to a boil in a medium saucepan and add a teaspoon of salt."  Neither the water, how much, or that particular bit of salt, is mentioned elsewhere.

This happens more than you'd think, but even I'll admit that it is an exception, rather than a rule.  But it's why I always read through a full instruction set first as a matter of principle, whether it's a recipe or not.  I'm ashamed to admit that the old saw, "One burned, twice shy," should read something like, "Burned one hundred and twenty five times, just cluing-in," when it comes to my all-to-slow adoption of this as standard practice.  And I should be ashamed, as I have no one to blame but myself for failing to be way quicker on the uptake.  One hundred deserved lashes with a wet noodle!
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated MalwareBytes Tray Application

Robbie Curtis
 

Good Afternoon All,


For those of you using MalwareBytes, is there a way to get rid of the tray application window since it is not accessible? Thanks.


moderated Re: [External] : Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

 

On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 01:08 PM, Don Mauck wrote:
Another thing that gets over looked is that you are dealing with different disabilities besides just low vision. Cognitive issues being a prime example. That takes some understanding in how to write messages or instructions.
As a cognitive rehab therapist in a brain injury services program for six years, and a speech-language pathologist, don't I know it.

But no matter who is writing instructions, or when, they are writing for a presumed target audience.  If another audience happens to "get their hands on" that instruction set, and it's not ideal, that doesn't make the instructions "bad," just not intended for the user who's using them.

But I'm also not willing to go through my cyber life presuming that most that I meet have some sort of hidden disability, even on these groups.  Online, even more than in day to day interaction, no one can be the proverbial mind reader.  And if someone doesn't mention a given situation or circumstance that's relevant, there's no way that a random reader should presume something quite outside that great middle area of the bell curve within a given community.

I'll always assume "basically capable of pretty much anything most people can do" unless clued-in otherwise, with the exception of a stated disability.  I don't assume that someone who's blind can see, but I also assume that they're otherwise like most other folks I know other than in that respect.  And that's because the vast majority of individuals I've known who are blind have been just that. And that comes from working with these folks as my coworkers, clients, and, at one time, my young students.  That, and having one of my dearest friends having been blind since birth (she passed away this past January, but I knew her for years).
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: [External] : Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

Orlando Enrique Fiol
 

At 01:08 PM 5/18/2021, Don Mauck wrote:
Another thing that gets over looked is that you are dealing with
different disabilities besides just low vision. Cognitive issues being
a prime example. That takes some understanding in how to write
messages or instructions.
That's very true, Don. However, as disabled people, we need to know what we need and how to ask for it, rather than assume that others are supposed to know and deliver it to us piping hot on silver platters. If someone is rattling off instructions such as, "click on the mixer icon and drag the dial to the desired track," I have to look out for my own needs and say, "Hold up, back up. That icon is probably unlabeled. Is it near any standard control to which I could navigate? Is there any alternative to dragging that dial? Do the arrows move it?"
So, if a cognitively-challenged person doesn't understand a portion of provided instructions, they have to step up and say/write, "I don't understand that. Please clarify," or even: "This makes no sense; can I call you and be walked through this?" Very likely, someone will be willing to do that, especially during these gradually reopening times. I sure am willing to help people by phone or audio/video chat, which is often more meaningful than email or text.


Orlando Enrique Fiol
Charlotte, North Carolina
Professional Pianist/Keyboardist, Percussionist and Pedagogue
Ph.D. in Music theory
University of Pennsylvania: November, 2018
Home: (980) 585-1516
Mobile: (267) 971-7090


moderated Re: more about another jfw list discussion list

Orlando Enrique Fiol
 

At 01:04 PM 5/18/2021, Brian Vogel wrote:
It is very difficult to get those who don't use screen readers to
actually separate the concepts of "gain focus on" and "select" and
"activate" because a single click on something gains you focus on it
and selects it at a minimum. And in the case of doing so on a link,
it does all three at one time. You most often get a sense of whether
activation is involved as an atomic element of that click based on
what the following instruction states. If it's something like, "Now,
in the dialog that appears . . .," you can pretty much assume that a
point and click instruction is an instance where all three actions
were rolled into one single click.
Very well put. We should also assume that we'll handle selection using cursoring keys: arrows, tab, shift+tab, etc. So, even if those keys are never mentioned in instructions, we should try them all until we actually move where we need to be.

Another of my "things" is emphasizing that you (any you) must read
through an instruction set completely before even setting out with the
first one, and not just in computing. My own partner drives me
insane because he doesn't do this routinely, and I can't count the
number of times, when cooking, there's a big oso because an
ingredient not mentioned in the ingredient list (it happens) isn't in
the house or he skips something because he never read it through first
and was in a rush.
Well, a recipe ingredient list should be completely comprehensive, even if it indicates things such as "salt and pepper to taste" at the end.

There are too many potential pitfalls in any
complex instruction set, even those in step-by-step format, for it to
be a good idea to start and hope you make it through unscathed without
ever having read them first.

Better still, we need to move away from step-by-step instructions because steps may vary considerably between user configurations and *definitely* between Windows editions. just try to navigate to the Advanced tab under Users and Groups in Windows Home. Not there!
Orlando Enrique Fiol
Charlotte, North Carolina
Professional Pianist/Keyboardist, Percussionist and Pedagogue
Ph.D. in Music theory
University of Pennsylvania: November, 2018
Home: (980) 585-1516
Mobile: (267) 971-7090


moderated Re: keystrokes

 

As a now long lost cyber-acquaintance used to say:  Context, Context, Context!!

Keystroke is unambiguous in computing terminology, which is what we're using on a group such as this.  Nothing you say can or will change that.  The untold millions of references to keystrokes in formal documentation are in no way unclear.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: keystrokes

Orlando Enrique Fiol
 

Sorry, darlin', but you're not buying the definition most commonly
used for a word doesn't change the fact that it is its definition.
Sorry, sweet cheeks, but thousands of English words have developed imprecise usages over time, acknowledged by reputable dictionaries.

keystroke on Onelook.com ( https://www.onelook.com/?w=keystroke )
You're very simply not only being idiosyncratic, you're actually
factually incorrect and muddying the waters. Your opinion does not
matter when it comes to commonly accepted definitions (and I hasten to
add, nor does mine). People use words as they're commonly defined to
communicate shared meaning. You don't get to pick your own.


Au contraire, mon frère. As a life-long pianist/keyboardist, the difference between stroking and pressing means silence or sound, full versus empty pockets. It ain't my fault that folks have conflated two verbs, press and stroke. That conflation doesn't become physiologically precise by fiat.
Orlando Enrique Fiol
Charlotte, North Carolina
Professional Pianist/Keyboardist, Percussionist and Pedagogue
Ph.D. in Music theory
University of Pennsylvania: November, 2018
Home: (980) 585-1516
Mobile: (267) 971-7090

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