Date   

text appears on web site twice

kevin meyers
 

 

Hello,

I’m using recent versions of windows10 and Jaws2020. There are many times I will arrow down the page and a line of text or a few lines are repeated. Does anyone else encounter this issue? It happens using Google Chrome and FireFox.

Thanks, Kevin


Re: my computer shuts down while I am in outlook 2019.

Dan Longmore
 

Jim

It is possible that Outlook has become corrupted however I suspect that something more is going on behind the scenes.

You can do some testing:

  Does the issue occur if you boot up and just have JAWS running?

   Does the issue occur with JAWS and another program and not OutLook?

   May want to run a scan to rule out malware or virus. 

 

Dan

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Rawls
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2020 2:54 PM
To: blindtech@groups.io
Subject: my computer shuts down while I am in outlook 2019.

 

Hi all,

When I first boot up my computer in the morning, and if I go to my email right away, the computer stays running for awhile and then for no good reason, shuts down. I have to reboot it again, to get it started. It may shut down again, if I stay in outlook, but it usually stays running after one or two reboots. What could cause this? I am running jaws 2021 beta on a windows ten computer. Jim


Re: does a link leave a site?

Dan Longmore
 

No, suggestion was not my point.  Just making a point that what is easier for some may not be for others and for me the use of the right mouse keystroke is helpful at times in addition to the application key.

One size does not fit all especially in the world of assistive technology.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2020 1:36 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: does a link leave a site?

 

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 01:11 PM, Mike B wrote:

Are you suggesting that it might be better for those of us that have no vision or low vision to use a mouse for invoking the right mouse click if we have a mouse available verses using the keystroke?

-
Not exactly.  I have not encountered any real difference with right mouse click versus using the Context Menu/Applications Key or SHIFT+F10.  But, I have encountered problem after problem with emulated left mouse click.

As I noted, on a laptop one shields the mousepad portion that controls mouse movement, or on a desktop one masks the laser on the underside of the mouse itself (or removes the ball, if you have a really ancient mouse), to avoid unintentional mouse movement.  Then, if you have focus (sometimes requiring routing of screen reader to PC, but not always) you can simply left click instead of going through the gyrations with emulated left click, which I often find does not work.

Having been in "the accessibility business" for a very long time now I do not understand why mouse use with a mouse suitably modified to prevent accidents is not encouraged more often.  I understand why one would not ever want to use an unmodified mouse/mouse pad, as movement of the pointer can and often does blow what you're attempting to do out of the water.  But if you make things such that the mouse no longer controls the pointer, it gives you the two, real, hard mouse keys for use when you need them.  The modifications are simple and result in another arrow in the accessibility quiver.  And an arrow one need only use if one so chooses when it makes life easier.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


my computer shuts down while I am in outlook 2019.

Jim Rawls
 

Hi all,

When I first boot up my computer in the morning, and if I go to my email right away, the computer stays running for awhile and then for no good reason, shuts down. I have to reboot it again, to get it started. It may shut down again, if I stay in outlook, but it usually stays running after one or two reboots. What could cause this? I am running jaws 2021 beta on a windows ten computer. Jim


Re: does a link leave a site?

mike mcglashon
 

That’s cool,

Let’s do that,

I think my number stays on the bottom of the messages whenst I write to the list;

 

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2020 1:56 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: does a link leave a site?

 

Mike,

          That's fine.  Also, if you so choose, we could set up a Quick Assist session at some point so that I can watch your screen and what's happening.  It's literally a matter of my seeing what's going on, as there are "context clues" that sometimes occur that are not picked up by a screen reader.

          I like what Joseph Lee once said to me about how those of us who can see process screens in their entirety, as a gestalt, and filter out and focus upon things without even realizing we're doing it, and it's absolutely true.  No screen reader, no matter how good, is capable of that kind of processing and sometimes it's the key to figuring out why something odd is happening and how/whether one can get around it or not.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Re: does a link leave a site?

 

Mike,

          That's fine.  Also, if you so choose, we could set up a Quick Assist session at some point so that I can watch your screen and what's happening.  It's literally a matter of my seeing what's going on, as there are "context clues" that sometimes occur that are not picked up by a screen reader.

          I like what Joseph Lee once said to me about how those of us who can see process screens in their entirety, as a gestalt, and filter out and focus upon things without even realizing we're doing it, and it's absolutely true.  No screen reader, no matter how good, is capable of that kind of processing and sometimes it's the key to figuring out why something odd is happening and how/whether one can get around it or not.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Re: does a link leave a site?

mike mcglashon
 

No, I know this is not so because I always check to see if that is what the site did;

There is no new window opened;

Hang on let me try to duplicate it and I’ll get back to you guys with a site and situation where it occurs on the regular;

 

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2020 1:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: does a link leave a site?

 

It’s likely, then, that the new page is opening in a new window. JAWS often ()but I think not always) reads a message alerting you.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of mike mcglashon
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2020 1:45 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: does a link leave a site?

 

Speaking of that,

I often encounter sites that “alt+left arrow” doesn’t work at all;

This especially happens in legal research websites such as lexis and westlaw;

When I am in a search results page,

Then open one of the cases in my results,

Then try to alt+left arrow back,

It stays on the page with the case I am reading;

I always wondered how come alt+left arrow doesn’t work at all sometimes;

 

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2020 1:41 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: does a link leave a site?

 

Also, if a link does shift you out of the site you were in, all it takes is a click of the Back button in your browser to go straight back to the page you just left, provided you haven't browsed around to multiple pages in the site you were taken to.  Back only works one page at a time, but if you do it immediately after a site shift you go right back to where you were.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Re: does a link leave a site?

mike mcglashon
 

Let me do this,

Because those sites are paid secure sites,

I’ll have to look for a public site that I can duplicate the example.

Let me check, the in.courts.gov site might work for this experiment;

 

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2020 1:48 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: does a link leave a site?

 

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 01:45 PM, mike mcglashon wrote:

Then try to alt+left arrow back,

It stays on the page with the case I am reading;

I always wondered how come alt+left arrow doesn’t work at all sometimes;

-
Can you give a specific "origin page" URL and what to click through to where you get stuck after being sent there?

I really need to try this to see what's happening and to try to figure out what's not happening, and why, if that's even possible.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Re: does a link leave a site?

Adrian Spratt
 

It’s likely, then, that the new page is opening in a new window. JAWS often ()but I think not always) reads a message alerting you.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of mike mcglashon
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2020 1:45 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: does a link leave a site?

 

Speaking of that,

I often encounter sites that “alt+left arrow” doesn’t work at all;

This especially happens in legal research websites such as lexis and westlaw;

When I am in a search results page,

Then open one of the cases in my results,

Then try to alt+left arrow back,

It stays on the page with the case I am reading;

I always wondered how come alt+left arrow doesn’t work at all sometimes;

 

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2020 1:41 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: does a link leave a site?

 

Also, if a link does shift you out of the site you were in, all it takes is a click of the Back button in your browser to go straight back to the page you just left, provided you haven't browsed around to multiple pages in the site you were taken to.  Back only works one page at a time, but if you do it immediately after a site shift you go right back to where you were.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Re: does a link leave a site?

 

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 01:45 PM, mike mcglashon wrote:

Then try to alt+left arrow back,

It stays on the page with the case I am reading;

I always wondered how come alt+left arrow doesn’t work at all sometimes;

-
Can you give a specific "origin page" URL and what to click through to where you get stuck after being sent there?

I really need to try this to see what's happening and to try to figure out what's not happening, and why, if that's even possible.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Re: does a link leave a site?

 

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 01:16 PM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:
I don't understand why anyone would prefer the right touch pad button over an applications key, but if your computer has no applications key, it may be better than doing shift + F10.
-
You just nailed the reason right there.  It is a very rare laptop these days that comes with an Applications/Context Menu key, and even a great many desktop keyboards no longer sport one.

It's way easier, on a laptop at least, to hit right click with your right thumb, never having to move your hand from the home keys after you've got the muscle memory of where that button is, than to do a SHIFT+F10, which involves either 2-hands or a very clumsy double-reach using the right hand alone.

SHIFT+F10 and Right Click are, in virtually all cases (and there are a few very rare exceptions) exactly equivalent.  This is about ease of use and nothing more.

When it comes to left click, that's another thing entirely, and far more easily and reliably done with the mouse button for same than via emulation.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Re: does a link leave a site?

mike mcglashon
 

Speaking of that,

I often encounter sites that “alt+left arrow” doesn’t work at all;

This especially happens in legal research websites such as lexis and westlaw;

When I am in a search results page,

Then open one of the cases in my results,

Then try to alt+left arrow back,

It stays on the page with the case I am reading;

I always wondered how come alt+left arrow doesn’t work at all sometimes;

 

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2020 1:41 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: does a link leave a site?

 

Also, if a link does shift you out of the site you were in, all it takes is a click of the Back button in your browser to go straight back to the page you just left, provided you haven't browsed around to multiple pages in the site you were taken to.  Back only works one page at a time, but if you do it immediately after a site shift you go right back to where you were.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Re: does a link leave a site?

 

Also, if a link does shift you out of the site you were in, all it takes is a click of the Back button in your browser to go straight back to the page you just left, provided you haven't browsed around to multiple pages in the site you were taken to.  Back only works one page at a time, but if you do it immediately after a site shift you go right back to where you were.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Re: does a link leave a site?

 

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 01:35 PM, Mark wrote:
I just want to know if a link is going to take me to an entirely new site.
Then look at the link.  If you're in the site xxx.com, and the link itself shows a domain that's anything other than xxx.com, then you will leave the site.  There is no other way to know this, regardless of whether you do it via screen reader checking or the sighted way by looking at the status bar on hover over on a link (since naked links are almost never used anymore - click-through text that tells you what the link is about showing you long ago supplanted naked URLs).
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Re: does a link leave a site?

 

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 01:11 PM, Mike B wrote:
Are you suggesting that it might be better for those of us that have no vision or low vision to use a mouse for invoking the right mouse click if we have a mouse available verses using the keystroke?
-
Not exactly.  I have not encountered any real difference with right mouse click versus using the Context Menu/Applications Key or SHIFT+F10.  But, I have encountered problem after problem with emulated left mouse click.

As I noted, on a laptop one shields the mousepad portion that controls mouse movement, or on a desktop one masks the laser on the underside of the mouse itself (or removes the ball, if you have a really ancient mouse), to avoid unintentional mouse movement.  Then, if you have focus (sometimes requiring routing of screen reader to PC, but not always) you can simply left click instead of going through the gyrations with emulated left click, which I often find does not work.

Having been in "the accessibility business" for a very long time now I do not understand why mouse use with a mouse suitably modified to prevent accidents is not encouraged more often.  I understand why one would not ever want to use an unmodified mouse/mouse pad, as movement of the pointer can and often does blow what you're attempting to do out of the water.  But if you make things such that the mouse no longer controls the pointer, it gives you the two, real, hard mouse keys for use when you need them.  The modifications are simple and result in another arrow in the accessibility quiver.  And an arrow one need only use if one so chooses when it makes life easier.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Re: does a link leave a site?

Mark
 

I just want to know if a link is going to take me to an entirely new site. Sometimes I prefer to stay on the same site because I'm already familiar with it.


Re: does a link leave a site?

Glenn / Lenny
 


Mike,
The mouse gives no more options than does the context menu key.
The problem with an actual mouse is that we may move it off the item while moving to it.
Some use the right button on a touch pad, but I typically disable this in control panel or with the function key if possible, so I don't accidentally touch the touch pad.
So for most, the context key is best.
BTW, I don't understand why anyone would prefer the right touch pad button over an applications key, but if your computer has no applications key, it may be better than doing shift + F10.
 
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike B
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2020 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: does a link leave a site?

Brian,
 
Are you suggesting that it might be better for those of us that have no vision or low vision to use a mouse for invoking the right mouse click if we have a mouse available verses using the keystroke?  I always keep a mouse connected to my KVM switch just for general purposes, but I've never knew or thought to compare a right mouse clicks results to the pressing of the context menu keystrokes.

Take care and stay safe.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.  Go dodgers & Rams!
Main's Law:  For every action there is an equal and opposite government program.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2020 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: does a link leave a site?

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 11:45 AM, Dan Longmore wrote:
The right mouse click has benefits over the key strokes
-
Amen to that, and for anyone when a laptop is in use.  It is so much more convenient to use a hard right click (or left click), avoiding emulation of any kind, and it's simple to do in laptop settings and even desktop settings if you have an optical mouse and tape over the laser port on the bottom that is responsible for actual mouse movement.  I have all my clients who are laptop users simply cover the mousepad area with a thin piece of cardboard so they can't activate it, but that can also be flipped open on those occasions where a sighted assistant is called in to help since most of them cannot function without a mouse or mouse pad.  When that's been done you still have full use of the left and right click buttons when needed, and within reach of your thumbs.

I have yet to find a screen reader that reliably, in all cases, has its left click emulation in particular work.  I have nothing against SHIFT+F10 or the Applications Key (very commonly called the menu or context menu key) when it's available.  But there are very distinct advantages to actual left and right click on many occasions.

And that's whether you're blind or sighted or somewhere in between.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Re: does a link leave a site?

Mike B
 


Brian,
 
Are you suggesting that it might be better for those of us that have no vision or low vision to use a mouse for invoking the right mouse click if we have a mouse available verses using the keystroke?  I always keep a mouse connected to my KVM switch just for general purposes, but I've never knew or thought to compare a right mouse clicks results to the pressing of the context menu keystrokes.

Take care and stay safe.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.  Go dodgers & Rams!
Main's Law:  For every action there is an equal and opposite government program.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2020 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: does a link leave a site?

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 11:45 AM, Dan Longmore wrote:
The right mouse click has benefits over the key strokes
-
Amen to that, and for anyone when a laptop is in use.  It is so much more convenient to use a hard right click (or left click), avoiding emulation of any kind, and it's simple to do in laptop settings and even desktop settings if you have an optical mouse and tape over the laser port on the bottom that is responsible for actual mouse movement.  I have all my clients who are laptop users simply cover the mousepad area with a thin piece of cardboard so they can't activate it, but that can also be flipped open on those occasions where a sighted assistant is called in to help since most of them cannot function without a mouse or mouse pad.  When that's been done you still have full use of the left and right click buttons when needed, and within reach of your thumbs.

I have yet to find a screen reader that reliably, in all cases, has its left click emulation in particular work.  I have nothing against SHIFT+F10 or the Applications Key (very commonly called the menu or context menu key) when it's available.  But there are very distinct advantages to actual left and right click on many occasions.

And that's whether you're blind or sighted or somewhere in between.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Re: does a link leave a site?

 

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 11:45 AM, Dan Longmore wrote:
The right mouse click has benefits over the key strokes
-
Amen to that, and for anyone when a laptop is in use.  It is so much more convenient to use a hard right click (or left click), avoiding emulation of any kind, and it's simple to do in laptop settings and even desktop settings if you have an optical mouse and tape over the laser port on the bottom that is responsible for actual mouse movement.  I have all my clients who are laptop users simply cover the mousepad area with a thin piece of cardboard so they can't activate it, but that can also be flipped open on those occasions where a sighted assistant is called in to help since most of them cannot function without a mouse or mouse pad.  When that's been done you still have full use of the left and right click buttons when needed, and within reach of your thumbs.

I have yet to find a screen reader that reliably, in all cases, has its left click emulation in particular work.  I have nothing against SHIFT+F10 or the Applications Key (very commonly called the menu or context menu key) when it's available.  But there are very distinct advantages to actual left and right click on many occasions.

And that's whether you're blind or sighted or somewhere in between.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Re: does a link leave a site?

Dan Longmore
 

Hi,
The right mouse click has benefits over the key strokes especially for those who are sighted. It is slightly faster than a key stroke and does not require that your finger leave the mouse for a key stroke. As a blind individual I still find myself using the right click with a keystroke instead of the application key .
Force of habit and what is "used to". I am glad that the application key and F10 keys are a good alternative but I don't know that one is better than another.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2020 11:03 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: does a link leave a site?

Mark and everyone else on the list,
Haven't you ever wondered why sighted folk use a right mouse button?
Why would they right click on anything?
Why is it even there?
That is why we have an applications key, or for computers without one, you can do shift + F10.
Every file type and item on the computer gives you options to it that are relative to the object that you right click on, whether it is a picture file, audio file, or web page or eMail link.
Try going to a web link and doing applications or shift + F10 and see what your options are.
You can copy the link, from one of the options, and you can paste that into notepad or a blank message for inspection, and you'll have your answer.
I wonder if folks even use the applications key or shift + F10 sometimes.
It has so many implications that will save users a lot of unneeded steps.

Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mario" <mrb620@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2020 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: does a link leave a site?


Adrian, could you explain how to tell what these clues are?

-------- Original Message --------
From: Adrian Spratt [mailto:adrian@...]
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, October 24, 2020, 8:06 AM
Subject: does a link leave a site?
Copy the link and paste it into the Google search field. The results are
likely to give you clues.

*From:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Mark
*Sent:* Saturday, October 24, 2020 6:13 AM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* does a link leave a site?

is it possible to get information about a link, like to know if takes
you to a different site?