Date   

moderated Re: Word Processors that Work with JAWS

Kestrel Verlager <kestrell@...>
 

If you're just writing short notes or grocery lists, Notepad is the way to go but, yes, it will not maintain your formatting the way Wordpad will.

My advice is to try to learn as much using Wordpad so that you can get used to implementing and keeping as much formatting as possible. It doesn't do everything Word does, but it gets the job done. You can still do most things, such as creating headings and using bulleted lists.

I've also used Notepad for writing the HTML for my webpages.

Kestrell

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Karen Reynolds
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 3:53 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Word Processors that Work with JAWS

I don't remember what they are, but there used to be programs that would convert docx files to things like rtf and txt. The issue is losing the formatting.

Most of the time I use notepad. I keep forgetting about wordpad. The rest of the time I use Word. Notepad doesn't seem to do things like hard returns for a new page. I've only recently been able to get it to indent.


Karen


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lanie Molinar
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 1:42 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Word Processors that Work with JAWS

Hi all. Thanks to everyone who answered my last email. I have another question. I might have a lot for a little while. I know Microsoft Word works well with JAWS, but I can't really justify the expense, especially since I don't do a lot of work with documents. I might need to in the future, though. What are some other word processors that work well with JAWS? With NVDA, I used Google Docs or occasionally LibreOffice. Are these good, or are there others you would recommend? I want to find one for future work, but I'm also just looking for a good way to read a book I just got, which comes in Microsoft Word format. Thanks.


moderated Re: Word Processors that Work with JAWS

K0LNY
 

I'm not sure if it works with MS word files, but another good free one is
notepad ++.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Reynolds" <karenreynolds2061@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: Word Processors that Work with JAWS


I don't remember what they are, but there used to be programs that would
convert docx files to things like rtf and txt. The issue is losing the
formatting.

Most of the time I use notepad. I keep forgetting about wordpad. The rest of
the time I use Word. Notepad doesn't seem to do things like hard returns for
a new page. I've only recently been able to get it to indent.


Karen


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lanie Molinar
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 1:42 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Word Processors that Work with JAWS

Hi all. Thanks to everyone who answered my last email. I have another
question. I might have a lot for a little while. I know Microsoft Word works
well with JAWS, but I can't really justify the expense, especially since I
don't do a lot of work with documents. I might need to in the future,
though. What are some other word processors that work well with JAWS? With
NVDA, I used Google Docs or occasionally LibreOffice. Are these good, or are
there others you would recommend? I want to find one for future work, but
I'm also just looking for a good way to read a book I just got, which comes
in Microsoft Word format. Thanks.


moderated Re: Word Processors that Work with JAWS

Karen Reynolds
 

I don't remember what they are, but there used to be programs that would convert docx files to things like rtf and txt. The issue is losing the formatting.

Most of the time I use notepad. I keep forgetting about wordpad. The rest of the time I use Word. Notepad doesn't seem to do things like hard returns for a new page. I've only recently been able to get it to indent.


Karen

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lanie Molinar
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 1:42 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Word Processors that Work with JAWS

Hi all. Thanks to everyone who answered my last email. I have another question. I might have a lot for a little while. I know Microsoft Word works well with JAWS, but I can't really justify the expense, especially since I don't do a lot of work with documents. I might need to in the future, though. What are some other word processors that work well with JAWS? With NVDA, I used Google Docs or occasionally LibreOffice. Are these good, or are there others you would recommend? I want to find one for future work, but I'm also just looking for a good way to read a book I just got, which comes in Microsoft Word format. Thanks.


moderated Re: Word Processors that Work with JAWS

Kestrel Verlager <kestrell@...>
 

If you have Windows, you have Wordpad, and you should be able to open and read your ebook in that. To tell the truth, even though I have Word, I often just use Wordpad, or even Notepad, for most of my writing. Wordpad is good enough for most of your basic everyday word processing needs unless you are working in an office or educational environment that requires specific formats.

Don't forget Jaws has it's own built-in word processor that will also let you read your ebook: FS Reader should also let you do many of the things you need.

There are also some other free and open source editors and ebook reading programs you can find by doing web searches.

Kestrell

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lanie Molinar
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 1:42 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Word Processors that Work with JAWS

Hi all. Thanks to everyone who answered my last email. I have another question. I might have a lot for a little while. I know Microsoft Word works well with JAWS, but I can't really justify the expense, especially since I don't do a lot of work with documents. I might need to in the future, though. What are some other word processors that work well with JAWS? With NVDA, I used Google Docs or occasionally LibreOffice. Are these good, or are there others you would recommend? I want to find one for future work, but I'm also just looking for a good way to read a book I just got, which comes in Microsoft Word format. Thanks.


moderated Word Processors that Work with JAWS

 

Hi all. Thanks to everyone who answered my last email. I have another question. I might have a lot for a little while. I know Microsoft Word works well with JAWS, but I can't really justify the expense, especially since I don't do a lot of work with documents. I might need to in the future, though. What are some other word processors that work well with JAWS? With NVDA, I used Google Docs or occasionally LibreOffice. Are these good, or are there others you would recommend? I want to find one for future work, but I'm also just looking for a good way to read a book I just got, which comes in Microsoft Word format. Thanks.


moderated Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?

Gene Warner
 

Hi everyone!

I just recently heard about this list, so this is my first post.

I started losing my vision in 2010 and was declared legally blind two year later. I bought JAWS in December in 2013 and have been using it ever since except for a a week or two when I tried switching to NVDA, but always came back to JAWS.

My take on the two screen readers is quite simple.

* If you want to be productive and get work done with your computer, you use JAWS.

* If you like forgoing productivity and like to dig into the inner workings and tinkering around to see what happens, you use NVDA.

Have a great week end everyone!
Gene...


moderated Highlighting text using Adobe pro

Christine Laton <christinelaton@...>
 

Hi,

To tag onto all the PDF conversations lately: Does anyone know how to highlight text in a PDF with Adobe pro? I am able to select, but I can’t find a way to highlight it. Adobe says that shift+u should be a shortcut, but it seems like JAWS thinks that’s a navigation shortcut.

Any thoughts would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,
Christine


moderated Re: Gmail and Outlook: Recent Security Conundrums

Ann Byrne
 

Really? I have always clicked that "forward to IMap" command. when setting up GMail with outlook.

At 11:35 AM 6/11/2022, you wrote:
On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 12:26 PM, Ann Byrne wrote:
Do I still have to tell GMail to forward mail to IMap, or will it detect that when outlook processes?

-Ann, I'm not sure what you're asking here, as email was never forwarded to IMAP, although the IMAP and POP settings are under Gmail's Forwarding and POP/IMAP settings page.Not knowing the age of your account, it's still worth logging in to Gmail webmail and bringing up the settings page to the aforementioned tab and double checking that the Enable IMAP radio button is activated. But if you didn't set up this account many years ago Gmail has had IMAP access activated by default and that button should be active anyway.If you don't want to do that, then if you allow Outlook to set the account up autonatically you can then check afterward to see if the IMAP server is being used for incoming messages versus the POP server. If IMAP access is enabled, Outlook will always default to using IMAP over POP in automatic setup mode. --

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044 Â

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t.   ~ Lauren Bacall


moderated Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?

Soronel Haetir
 

I use jaws mostly because NVDA wasn't available when I went blind (so
out of inertia) and when I did try NVDA (last time was 2010 or so) I
got _extremely_ upset with the NVDA development team and their
prevailing attitude toward introductory developer support (that is,
their attitude was that such support isn't needed).

As far as development systems went I actually preferred WindowEyes,
what with everything being based around COM objects and using
ActiveScript (but that was the only thing I liked about WE).

On 6/11/22, Madison Martin <Madison.Martin2000@...> wrote:
Hi James,
I know that you've received lots of responses but I wanted to chime in
anyway. When I first started learning to use a computer I was taught how to
use Jaws; I tried NVDA but never really liked it and I'm not sure it works
as well with braille displays... I think it just comes down to what meets
your needs best and what you feel more comfortable with. I also just use my
computer for basic things so I'm not interested in all of the add-ons that
NVDA has and I like the fact that FS has tech support, even though these
lists are grate they can't fix everything.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: June 11, 2022 10:17 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?

Hi James,
The biggest draw-back with NVDA is that the object navigation, or screen
review cursors don't read the screen as well as the Jaws cursor.
In NVDA the screen review sticks in the wrong window that needs inspection
and I cannot ever seem to get it to where I need focus.
NVDA cannot reliably read where the action is on the screen.
For example, I can use the radio programming software called Chirp in
windows, when others call it inaccessible.
But Chirp isn't easily accessible, and it helps that I've used the program
in Linux so I know the layout, and it's fully accessible there with Orca,
but in windows with Chirp, nothing automatically speaks.
This is where my familiarity with using it in Linux helps me to use it in
windows.
Chirp has all the usual pull-down menus and one called "radio"
In windows as well as in Linux, alt R and F and the other menus opens them
up using alt and the associated letter.
But in Linux, at this point after doing alt R, I can do alt D for download
from radio or alt U to upload to radio for example.
These don't work in Windows, and screenreaders aren't reading where the
cursor is.
So here's an example of the difference between Jaws and NVDA.
With Jaws, I can use the jaws cursor to read anywhere on the screen and I
use route jaws to PC.
So if I do alt R, I can route Jaws to PC and I'm then in the menu with Jaws
cursor, I can find download and then route PC to Jaws, and then I know that
pressing enter activates Download.
Then in this program, more of all this needs to be done to select com port,
maker of the radio, and then model of radio.
I also have to route Jaws cursor a few more times to use the left mouse
click on the number pad on some "okay" options and on the number next to
"don't show this again".
Fortunately, with Chirp, the last radio used comes up the next time and all
the settings for that radio are there, so that makes it easier.
So my point in all this is, NVDA just does not offer the same level of
control over what's on the screen and being able to manipulate it.
I'd like to hear a recording tutorial of an experienced NVDA user trying to
get through Chirp.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Malone" <james.malone93502@...>
To: <jfw@groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 3:03 AM
Subject: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?


Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to
emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other, I'd
really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you think it
does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've been a long time
NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and there over the past year
or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws still seems to have better
braille support. I also don't know how many organisations would be super
happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a work computer, so there's that. I
used Jaws growing up, so I have a fair amount of experience in both readers.
Using Jaws recently also told me that the overall look and feel hasn't
really changed either, so there was next to no learning curve when it came
to reacquainting myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to
my understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something that
can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James
















--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@...


moderated Re: Gmail and Outlook: Recent Security Conundrums

 

On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 12:26 PM, Ann Byrne wrote:
Do I still have to tell GMail to forward mail to IMap, or will it detect that when outlook processes?
-
Ann, I'm not sure what you're asking here, as email was never forwarded to IMAP, although the IMAP and POP settings are under Gmail's Forwarding and POP/IMAP settings page.

Not knowing the age of your account, it's still worth logging in to Gmail webmail and bringing up the settings page to the aforementioned tab and double checking that the Enable IMAP radio button is activated.  But if you didn't set up this account many years ago Gmail has had IMAP access activated by default and that button should be active anyway.

If you don't want to do that, then if you allow Outlook to set the account up autonatically you can then check afterward to see if the IMAP server is being used for incoming messages versus the POP server.  If IMAP access is enabled, Outlook will always default to using IMAP over POP in automatic setup mode.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.
     ~ Lauren Bacall


moderated Re: Gmail and Outlook: Recent Security Conundrums

Ann Byrne
 

Do I still have to tell GMail to forward mail to IMap, or will it detect that when outlook processes?

At 10:03 PM 6/10/2022, you wrote:

Hello:



I need more specifics before I can answer this question. I am gathering that Outlook Express is the email client being used—running on the Windows 7 operating system. This being the case, I would suggest two things to enable Outlook Express to work with the Gmail account.


* In the Google account itself, turn on two-factor authentication.
* Once this is done and verified, generate what Google calls an app-specific password. This is a string of letters and other symbols that are difficult to remember. Once you have obtained this generated password, re-establish the Gmail account in Outlook Express, using the generated password in place of the Google Account password, the latter still working when a person needs access to the account through a web browser.



If you want links or references to articles telling you how to do all of this, please feel free to reach out to me.



Best regards,



Curtis Chong





From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Machise
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2022 5:44 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Gmail and Outlook: Recent Security Conundrums



Curtis can you please tell me about windows7 tried turning it on and my google now even with out turning it on doesn't like the ports in outlook express, what can I do from Joseph, to make google work again

----- Original Message -----

From: <mailto:chong.curtis@...>Curtis Chong

To: <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>main@jfw.groups.io

Sent: Friday, June 10, 2022 4:04 PM

Subject: Re: Gmail and Outlook: Recent Security Conundrums



Tom:



If your version of Office is fairly new, you will not be required to turn on two-factor authentication. This is one reason why I, myself, am on the subscription version of Microsoft 365.



Kindly,



Curtis Chong





From: <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>main@jfw.groups.io <<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2022 12:32 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Gmail and Outlook: Recent Security Conundrums



Interestingly, I haven’t needed to make any changes here with Outlook and my g-mail account.



I don’t remember being asked for two-factor authentication, so hopefully, I’ll be prompted for that when the time comes.



Is there something I should be doing now? I’m operating on the basis of the idea that “if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it!â€&#65533;.



Am using Microsoft 365 here on a Windows 10 PC.



Dr. Tom Behler





From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Curtis Chong
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2022 1:47 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Gmail and Outlook: Recent Security Conundrums



You can’t anymore. Allow Less Secure Apps is no longer an available setting.




On Jun 10, 2022, at 11:44 AM, Sandra Streeter <<mailto:sandrastreeter381@...>sandrastreeter381@...> wrote:



How do you check whether you have “less secure appsâ€&#65533; in operation?





Sandra



Justice without force is powerless; force without justice is tyrannical.

(Blaise Pascal)



From: <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>main@jfw.groups.io <<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2022 1:26 PM
To: <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Gmail and Outlook: Recent Security Conundrums



I had no issues with GMAIL on my iPhone, but did on the PC because I was using Outlook Express.



Andy



----- Original Message -----

From: <mailto:ajbd777@...>aaron lane

To: <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>main@jfw.groups.io

Sent: Friday, June 10, 2022 9:08 AM

Subject: Re: Gmail and Outlook: Recent Security Conundrums



I've not had any issues yet with Thunderbird or my IPhone. I am following this thread, so I know what to do, just in case.



Thanks.

On 6/10/2022 10:50 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

I have heard that it is not necessary to remove and re-create the Gmail account in all cases. If you have previously been using the "less secure apps" method of accessing the account with email address and actual password, you can go in to your Google Account and generate an app specific password for Outlook and that email account. Afterwards you update the account in outlook substituting the app specific password for your old text password. As previously noted, you have to turn on two-factor authentication for the account.

Personally, I prefer to nuke the account and set it up again if IMAP access has been the access method being used. Outlook 2016 and later walk you through doing the Gmail OAUTH steps and then everything is up to completely modern security protocols.

Outlook 2013 can be set up to use modern security protocols, too, but it requires the additon of 3 registry keys. Why they never turned this feature on in an Outlook 2013 update I'll never know. I have a REG script that sets these keys: <https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1Uo_EWCwUm9Nky86jxH5_q6Xi5HV0SoE8>Outlook2013ModernAuth.REG
Should you elect to download this, you will get a warning from Google that it cannot be virus scanned and is an executable that could harm your computer. It's a text file containing registry edit commands to set those three keys, and after you download it, should you wish to examine it before running, select the file, bring up the context menu, and choose Edit. Otherwise, if you select the file and activate it then this will fire up the regedit utility which will use the commands in this file to set the three keys. When regedit fires up you will get a UAC dialog (if you have UAC on, and most do) asking if you want to allow changes to be made to your system, to which you must answer, Yes, if you want the registry keys to be added.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you’re alive, it isn’t.
~ Lauren Bacall


moderated Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?

Madison Martin
 

Hi James,
I know that you've received lots of responses but I wanted to chime in anyway. When I first started learning to use a computer I was taught how to use Jaws; I tried NVDA but never really liked it and I'm not sure it works as well with braille displays... I think it just comes down to what meets your needs best and what you feel more comfortable with. I also just use my computer for basic things so I'm not interested in all of the add-ons that NVDA has and I like the fact that FS has tech support, even though these lists are grate they can't fix everything.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: June 11, 2022 10:17 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?

Hi James,
The biggest draw-back with NVDA is that the object navigation, or screen review cursors don't read the screen as well as the Jaws cursor.
In NVDA the screen review sticks in the wrong window that needs inspection and I cannot ever seem to get it to where I need focus.
NVDA cannot reliably read where the action is on the screen.
For example, I can use the radio programming software called Chirp in windows, when others call it inaccessible.
But Chirp isn't easily accessible, and it helps that I've used the program in Linux so I know the layout, and it's fully accessible there with Orca, but in windows with Chirp, nothing automatically speaks.
This is where my familiarity with using it in Linux helps me to use it in windows.
Chirp has all the usual pull-down menus and one called "radio"
In windows as well as in Linux, alt R and F and the other menus opens them up using alt and the associated letter.
But in Linux, at this point after doing alt R, I can do alt D for download from radio or alt U to upload to radio for example.
These don't work in Windows, and screenreaders aren't reading where the cursor is.
So here's an example of the difference between Jaws and NVDA.
With Jaws, I can use the jaws cursor to read anywhere on the screen and I use route jaws to PC.
So if I do alt R, I can route Jaws to PC and I'm then in the menu with Jaws cursor, I can find download and then route PC to Jaws, and then I know that pressing enter activates Download.
Then in this program, more of all this needs to be done to select com port, maker of the radio, and then model of radio.
I also have to route Jaws cursor a few more times to use the left mouse click on the number pad on some "okay" options and on the number next to "don't show this again".
Fortunately, with Chirp, the last radio used comes up the next time and all the settings for that radio are there, so that makes it easier.
So my point in all this is, NVDA just does not offer the same level of control over what's on the screen and being able to manipulate it.
I'd like to hear a recording tutorial of an experienced NVDA user trying to get through Chirp.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Malone" <james.malone93502@...>
To: <jfw@groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 3:03 AM
Subject: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?


Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other, I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either, so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James


moderated Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?

Curtis Chong
 

Greetings:

I will say that if a person needs help from the fine folks at NV Access, even if you purchase an hour of technical support time, it is just about impossible to get a human to contact you. With Freedom Scientific, we still get free over-the-phone technical support which, I admit, is not perfect. It is, however, better than not having any phone support at all.

Lately, Freedom Scientific has been putting on quite a few training webinars and charging nothing for them. They also run quite a few free sessions on Clubhouse.

My two big reasons for favoring JAWS over NVDA is the JAWS Text Analyzer, the place marker feature in Word (which NVDA also has now), and the built-in optical character recognition—of files and through a scanner.

Cordially,

Curtis Chong

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Malone
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 2:04 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?

Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to
emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other,
I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you
think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've
been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and
there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws
still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many
organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a
work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a
fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also
told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either,
so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting
myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my
understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something
that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James


moderated Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?

K0LNY
 

Hi James,
The biggest draw-back with NVDA is that the object navigation, or screen
review cursors don't read the screen as well as the Jaws cursor.
In NVDA the screen review sticks in the wrong window that needs inspection
and I cannot ever seem to get it to where I need focus.
NVDA cannot reliably read where the action is on the screen.
For example, I can use the radio programming software called Chirp in
windows, when others call it inaccessible.
But Chirp isn't easily accessible, and it helps that I've used the program
in Linux so I know the layout, and it's fully accessible there with Orca,
but in windows with Chirp, nothing automatically speaks.
This is where my familiarity with using it in Linux helps me to use it in
windows.
Chirp has all the usual pull-down menus and one called "radio"
In windows as well as in Linux, alt R and F and the other menus opens them
up using alt and the associated letter.
But in Linux, at this point after doing alt R, I can do alt D for download
from radio or alt U to upload to radio for example.
These don't work in Windows, and screenreaders aren't reading where the
cursor is.
So here's an example of the difference between Jaws and NVDA.
With Jaws, I can use the jaws cursor to read anywhere on the screen and I
use route jaws to PC.
So if I do alt R, I can route Jaws to PC and I'm then in the menu with Jaws
cursor, I can find download and then route PC to Jaws, and then I know that
pressing enter activates Download.
Then in this program, more of all this needs to be done to select com port,
maker of the radio, and then model of radio.
I also have to route Jaws cursor a few more times to use the left mouse
click on the number pad on some "okay" options and on the number next to
"don't show this again".
Fortunately, with Chirp, the last radio used comes up the next time and all
the settings for that radio are there, so that makes it easier.
So my point in all this is, NVDA just does not offer the same level of
control over what's on the screen and being able to manipulate it.
I'd like to hear a recording tutorial of an experienced NVDA user trying to
get through Chirp.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Malone" <james.malone93502@...>
To: <jfw@groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 3:03 AM
Subject: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?


Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to
emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other,
I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you
think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've
been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and
there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws
still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many
organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a
work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a
fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also
told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either,
so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting
myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my
understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something
that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James


moderated Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?

Loy
 

Same here, I was a dedicated user of Window Eyes and I excepted the free JAWS after FS dropped WE. I am and older user and don't wish to learn another screen reader now. I do keep a copy of NVDA just in case JAWS fails me, but so far JAWS is the one for me.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Pietruk" <pietruk@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?


James

JAWS chose me, so to speak, rather than I initially choosing it.

When I entered into the world of Windows in the mid to late 1990s,
I chose Window-Eyes over Jaws as I was terrified by JFW's
user key system (I just didn't understand it, nothing more,
and GWMicro just seemed to allow straight installation).

I was a very happy and content WE user until the very end; and accepted
the offer of a Free JAWS so I took the offer.
I continued as the yearly SMA cost was nominal; and t he program seemed to
do what it's supposed to do.

It works fine; has great user support through lists such as this, and
people like Brian Hartgen with his tutorials and his script packages,
especially Leasey..
Moreover, Vispero offers a lot of resources via their website; and JAWS
supports my preferred speech synthesizer, currently TripleTalk USB.

I have nothing against NVDA and admire how much free time dedicated
developers give to it.
But, with something as vital as a screen reader,
I am more comfortable with something that is backed by a company rather
than a group of volunteers.
Paying the SMA (I do it on a 2-year basis) is my way trying to insure that
they can continue to do what they're doing.

Most certainly, if the need ever arose that JFW didn't meet, a certain
need of mine,
I would certainly add NVDA to my screen reader toolbox.
Right now, JAWS, Narrator, and, yes, even the Old Window-Eyes final
release meet my everyday needs as a retired person.

I used to love learning new programs and operating systems as they came,
but, in time, mastering the evolving world of technology is like
chasing the proverbial rabbit that is never caught. You get close
to catching; but then the rabbit springs forward again in amazing speed.

I marvel how the programmers and developers of screen readers have been
able to keep up
as given the constant changes they face.








moderated Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?

Karen Reynolds
 

Hi Kestrell,
Wow, you brought back memories. What is amazing to me is that just in the
last couple of years the Noah radios just switched from those boards and
voices to digital.

Karen

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kestrel Verlager
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 9:50 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?

I lost the last of my functional vision in the mid-1990s and, when I went to
an indie computer support team to put a computer with speech together, I
chose Jaws and the DecTalk soundcard (these were about the size of today's
laptops, btw). There weren't that many options at the time, and Jaws and
DecTalk were possibly the most well-known combination. (Anyone remember Huge
Harry and Whispering Wendy?)

Over the years, I tried a number of the open source projects that promised
alternatives to Jaws, but the ease of installation, range of functionality,
and sound quality were never there, and all of them expected the user to
have some serious programming chops.

I think NVDA only became comfortably accessible to the non-programming
general user relatively recently, and a lot of users still aren't
comfortable with the default speech synthesizers. The sound of a program is
to a visually impaired person what the visual aesthetic is to a sighted
person: it conveys a sense of how professional and how fully developed the
product is. I think this is where NVDA has failed to impress a lot of users.

So I have nearly thirty years experience with Jaws, and I'm faster and more
expert on it. I also find that there is a lot more learning resources for
it. NVDA users seem to have a lot more of the open source "if you really
want to learn it, you'll figure it out yourself" mentality. I paid for one
of their training ebooks, but it would be nice if there was a regular
training webinar or podcast available. I'm not talking about learning the
basics, but keeping up with the constant new developments in the
applications we use for work and for accomplishing everyday tasks. FS has
lots of webinars on using Jaws with Google Workspace and OCR, and I don't
see NVDA offering anything like that, and those are things that keep our job
skills competitive.

Kestrell



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Pietruk
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 9:24 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?

James

JAWS chose me, so to speak, rather than I initially choosing it.

When I entered into the world of Windows in the mid to late 1990s, I chose
Window-Eyes over Jaws as I was terrified by JFW's user key system (I just
didn't understand it, nothing more, and GWMicro just seemed to allow
straight installation).

I was a very happy and content WE user until the very end; and accepted the
offer of a Free JAWS so I took the offer.
I continued as the yearly SMA cost was nominal; and t he program seemed to
do what it's supposed to do.

It works fine; has great user support through lists such as this, and people
like Brian Hartgen with his tutorials and his script packages, especially
Leasey..
Moreover, Vispero offers a lot of resources via their website; and JAWS
supports my preferred speech synthesizer, currently TripleTalk USB.

I have nothing against NVDA and admire how much free time dedicated
developers give to it.
But, with something as vital as a screen reader, I am more comfortable with
something that is backed by a company rather than a group of volunteers.
Paying the SMA (I do it on a 2-year basis) is my way trying to insure that
they can continue to do what they're doing.

Most certainly, if the need ever arose that JFW didn't meet, a certain need
of mine, I would certainly add NVDA to my screen reader toolbox.
Right now, JAWS, Narrator, and, yes, even the Old Window-Eyes final release
meet my everyday needs as a retired person.

I used to love learning new programs and operating systems as they came,
but, in time, mastering the evolving world of technology is like chasing the
proverbial rabbit that is never caught. You get close to catching; but then
the rabbit springs forward again in amazing speed.

I marvel how the programmers and developers of screen readers have been able
to keep up as given the constant changes they face.


moderated Re: New Subscriber Contemplating Switching from NVDA to JAWS with A Few Questions

ratshtron
 

Hmmmm, if you use jaws you use scripts, lol!

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> on behalf of Karen Reynolds <karenreynolds2061@...>
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 9:34:15 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Re: New Subscriber Contemplating Switching from NVDA to JAWS with A Few Questions
 
Hi Lanie,
I don't use scripts, so I can't help you there. I do use a braille display. It is the Focus 40 5th generation. Since I've been a long time user of Jaws, early to mid 90's, I chose this display over others because I wanted the two to work well together. Since Then I understand there are several from other companies that work well with Jaws too.

There is another group. The group I found has a braille display focus only. Getting them to work with screen readers; including NVDA, Narrator, IOS, Jaws, etc.; is often discussed on that list. Also deciding which one might work best with your preferred screen reader. Here is the link to learn more.

https://groups.io/g/braille-display-users

I hope this helps, and I've not stepped on the toes of the moderator.
Karen


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lanie Molinar
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2022 11:27 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: New Subscriber Contemplating Switching from NVDA to JAWS with A Few Questions

Hi all. I've been playing with JAWS 2022 for a little while now. I'm a long-time user of NVDA and like it, but I'm interested in some of the features JAWS provides that NVDA doesn't, and I'd like to start using Braille more since I love Braille and am autistic and sometimes have periods of sensory overload with all my screen readers going off around me and other noises in my environment. I know JAWS provides better Braille support, and I'm hoping to get a Braille display soon. I have a few questions though. Are there any resources for finding scripts? I'm used to looking for add-ons in one location, like the NVDA add-ons website. Also, is there a way to make JAWS speak passwords? With NVDA, I have an add-on that does this. Does anyone know of any training resources for people who already know how to use a computer, advanced computer users, or people who have used other screen readers? I looked at the basic training materials, but they seemed a little basic for my needs. Finally, is there anyone who has made this switch and might be able to give me some tips on switching? Thanks.












moderated Re: New Subscriber Contemplating Switching from NVDA to JAWS with A Few Questions

Karen Reynolds
 

Hi Lanie,
I don't use scripts, so I can't help you there. I do use a braille display. It is the Focus 40 5th generation. Since I've been a long time user of Jaws, early to mid 90's, I chose this display over others because I wanted the two to work well together. Since Then I understand there are several from other companies that work well with Jaws too.

There is another group. The group I found has a braille display focus only. Getting them to work with screen readers; including NVDA, Narrator, IOS, Jaws, etc.; is often discussed on that list. Also deciding which one might work best with your preferred screen reader. Here is the link to learn more.

https://groups.io/g/braille-display-users

I hope this helps, and I've not stepped on the toes of the moderator.
Karen

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lanie Molinar
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2022 11:27 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: New Subscriber Contemplating Switching from NVDA to JAWS with A Few Questions

Hi all. I've been playing with JAWS 2022 for a little while now. I'm a long-time user of NVDA and like it, but I'm interested in some of the features JAWS provides that NVDA doesn't, and I'd like to start using Braille more since I love Braille and am autistic and sometimes have periods of sensory overload with all my screen readers going off around me and other noises in my environment. I know JAWS provides better Braille support, and I'm hoping to get a Braille display soon. I have a few questions though. Are there any resources for finding scripts? I'm used to looking for add-ons in one location, like the NVDA add-ons website. Also, is there a way to make JAWS speak passwords? With NVDA, I have an add-on that does this. Does anyone know of any training resources for people who already know how to use a computer, advanced computer users, or people who have used other screen readers? I looked at the basic training materials, but they seemed a little basic for my needs. Finally, is there anyone who has made this switch and might be able to give me some tips on switching? Thanks.


moderated Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?

Kestrel Verlager <kestrell@...>
 

I lost the last of my functional vision in the mid-1990s and, when I went to
an indie computer support team to put a computer with speech together, I
chose Jaws and the DecTalk soundcard (these were about the size of today's
laptops, btw). There weren't that many options at the time, and Jaws and
DecTalk were possibly the most well-known combination. (Anyone remember Huge
Harry and Whispering Wendy?)

Over the years, I tried a number of the open source projects that promised
alternatives to Jaws, but the ease of installation, range of functionality,
and sound quality were never there, and all of them expected the user to
have some serious programming chops.

I think NVDA only became comfortably accessible to the non-programming
general user relatively recently, and a lot of users still aren't
comfortable with the default speech synthesizers. The sound of a program is
to a visually impaired person what the visual aesthetic is to a sighted
person: it conveys a sense of how professional and how fully developed the
product is. I think this is where NVDA has failed to impress a lot of users.

So I have nearly thirty years experience with Jaws, and I'm faster and more
expert on it. I also find that there is a lot more learning resources for
it. NVDA users seem to have a lot more of the open source "if you really
want to learn it, you'll figure it out yourself" mentality. I paid for one
of their training ebooks, but it would be nice if there was a regular
training webinar or podcast available. I'm not talking about learning the
basics, but keeping up with the constant new developments in the
applications we use for work and for accomplishing everyday tasks. FS has
lots of webinars on using Jaws with Google Workspace and OCR, and I don't
see NVDA offering anything like that, and those are things that keep our job
skills competitive.

Kestrell

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Pietruk
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 9:24 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?

James

JAWS chose me, so to speak, rather than I initially choosing it.

When I entered into the world of Windows in the mid to late 1990s, I chose
Window-Eyes over Jaws as I was terrified by JFW's user key system (I just
didn't understand it, nothing more, and GWMicro just seemed to allow
straight installation).

I was a very happy and content WE user until the very end; and accepted the
offer of a Free JAWS so I took the offer.
I continued as the yearly SMA cost was nominal; and t he program seemed to
do what it's supposed to do.

It works fine; has great user support through lists such as this, and people
like Brian Hartgen with his tutorials and his script packages, especially
Leasey..
Moreover, Vispero offers a lot of resources via their website; and JAWS
supports my preferred speech synthesizer, currently TripleTalk USB.

I have nothing against NVDA and admire how much free time dedicated
developers give to it.
But, with something as vital as a screen reader, I am more comfortable with
something that is backed by a company rather than a group of volunteers.
Paying the SMA (I do it on a 2-year basis) is my way trying to insure that
they can continue to do what they're doing.

Most certainly, if the need ever arose that JFW didn't meet, a certain need
of mine, I would certainly add NVDA to my screen reader toolbox.
Right now, JAWS, Narrator, and, yes, even the Old Window-Eyes final release
meet my everyday needs as a retired person.

I used to love learning new programs and operating systems as they came,
but, in time, mastering the evolving world of technology is like chasing the
proverbial rabbit that is never caught. You get close to catching; but then
the rabbit springs forward again in amazing speed.

I marvel how the programmers and developers of screen readers have been able
to keep up as given the constant changes they face.


moderated Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?

Cornelius
 

There is no more custom install in JAWS. To remove some features, you have to use the additional settings.ini files, which you can find the instruction from FS webpage. And not to mention, only a few features can be remove.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Diamond
Sent: Saturday, 11 June, 2022 8:46 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?

For example, if I am not using the braille display, or remote etc., I should be able to choose not to install those components through a custom dialogue, and not limited to specific one with the INI file. I have always chose "typical" installation over "custom" Thus I thought choosing "custom" you'd be able to pick and choose which programs you could install and ignore others.


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Cornelius
Sent: June 11, 2022 1:25 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?

For me it could be attributed to a few reasons, namely the OCR for PDFs, the easier marking of places in documents with Control+Win+K, and I simply just love the ability to work on various MS office programs with JAWS. The downside with JAWS, which I wish could be more customisable, would be related to installing various components. For example, if I am not using the braille display, or remote etc, I should be able to choose not to install those components through a custom dialogue, and not limited to specific one with the INI file.

One may argue that given the ability of NVDA to expand features through Add-on, to me it still isn't as robust as JAWS when dealing with OCR documents and MS Office.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Malone
Sent: Saturday, 11 June, 2022 4:04 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Curiosity: What makes people choose Jaws over NVDA?

Hi all,
inspired from an earlier topic, I got to wondering:
What makes people keep coming back to Jaws over NVDA? I also want to emphasise that this is not a topic trying to bash one or the other, I'd really like to hear some opinions from the Jaws side. What do you think it does better? Where do you think it's weakness's are? I've been a long time NVDA user and occasionally dabbled in Jaws here and there over the past year or so. Something I commonly see is that Jaws still seems to have better braille support. I also don't know how many organisations would be super happy with the idea of putting NVDA on a work computer, so there's that. I used Jaws growing up, so I have a fair amount of experience in both readers. Using Jaws recently also told me that the overall look and feel hasn't really changed either, so there was next to no learning curve when it came to reacquainting myself. I know NV access have been working on this, but to my understanding Jaws also seems to have better UIA support, something that can only be a positive!
Looking forward to hearing from you,
James

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