Date   

moderated Checking in

Orlando Enrique Fiol
 

Hello, Hope you're good


Do you order on amazon site?

Thanks,
Orlando


moderated Re: email client question

bushyx008@...
 

Thanks for the info Joseph.

I did have the details previously but somehow they disappeared. This time I'll back them up to another drive.

Cheers
Tom

On 23/12/2021 5:11 pm, Joseph Hudson wrote:
Hello Tom, if you go to the groups.io <http://groups.io> website, and
login to the website, and then go and find the group that you want,
and click on manage subscription. There is a button that says leave
group. Perhaps that would possibly be easier for you. If you need
more instructions on working the website please feel free to reach
out.

On Dec 22, 2021, at 11:03 PM, bushyx008@... <mailto:bushyx008@...> wrote:
Hi, If Madison uses anOutlook.com <http://outlook.com/>account and
hopes things will improve under Thunderbird then she may be
disappointed.
Outlook 2013,usingoutlook.com <http://outlook.com/>, gave me many problems so I changed the email client to Thunderbird but this was
not without its problems either.
Currently,groups.io <http://groups.io/>is returning all
myoutlook.com <http://outlook.com/>based messages sent to the two
lists which usegroups.io <http://groups.io/>and has been doing so
for the past month or more. The messages are returned as
undeliverable.
I have had to switch to a different email account while using
Thunderbird
Now I am having a problem unsubscribing from the listsbecause of
the problem withOutlook.com <http://outlook.com/>andgroups.io <http://groups.io/>.
Anyone got an address forgroups.io <http://groups.io/>where it will
be possible to unsubscribe?
Thanks Tom
On 23/12/2021 12:04 pm, Bill White wrote:
Hi, Ken. Madison knows she has Outlook. It's not working properly
for her, so she's contemplating the differences between
Thunderbird and Outlook. Bill White billwhite92701@...
<mailto:billwhite92701@...> -----Original Message----- From:
main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ken Chernack via groups.io Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 5:11
PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: email client question Good
evening. If you have Office365 then you already have Outlook! HTH, Ken -----Original Message----- From: main@jfw.groups.io
<main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Madison Martin Sent: Wednesday,
December 22, 2021 4:01 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: email
client question Hi all, I got to wondering, what are the
differences and similarities between Outlook and Thunderbird in
terms of keystrokes, using them with Jaws etc.? I know the big
one, that Thunderbird is free and Outlook isn't. I currently use
Office 365, but I've heard people talking about Thunderbird and so I got curious. If it's pretty similar and if there wouldn't be
much of a learning curve then I might think about trying it
especially if it would solve the issue with my Outlook.com
account. Using latest versions of Jaws and Windows 10. Look
forward to any info that anyone can provide me!! Thanks Madison


moderated thanks for the help

tom x <ballistic719@...>
 

Thanks to all those who have helped me throughout 2021


Tom


moderated Re: Outlook.com and Groups.io - Bounce messages are not about Outlook.com

bushyx008@...
 

Hi Brian and thanks for your reply.

Using an email account setup in outlook.com, I have been subscribed to both of these groups.io lists for years so it is not the result of the situation you describe. Mail from these lists are still being received by my outlook.com account but it is impossible to send messages to the list as they are returned as undeliverable.
As this topic is not a fit one for the list, could you please send any comments etc to me off list.
Thanks
Tom

On 24/12/2021 8:54 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
This message may get long, but I'm going to describe what's going on as best I can.  But the long and the short of it is that the bounce messages members have been receiving that just so happened to be using an outlook.com address are not, in all probability, connected to that at all.
First, it's important to note that virtually all of the blind-tech-centric groups are NOT what Groups.io calls a restricted group.  When you send a subscribe message, you are instantly accepted for membership in the group without any need for the group owner's or moderator's manual intervention to approve your membership.  Your first message is, by groups.io default, held for review by the group owner or moderator before subsequent messages can post.
A very great many (not all, but many) non-blind-tech-centric groups are, in fact, restricted groups where, after sending the subscribe message, and after replying to the confirm message, you are still not a member of the group you are attempting to subscribe to until and unless someone in group administration approves you for membership.  If you attempt to send any message to the group prior to your membership in the group being approved, you will receive a bounce message that, by all appearances, makes it seem as though the groups.io posting address for the group you're trying to send a message to does not exist.  Here is a snippet of what I got back, twice, when attempting to send a message to a testing group, that was a restricted group, before my membership was approved:
--------------------------------------------
*Delivery has failed to these recipients or groups:*
main@shalstest.groups.io (main@shalstest.groups.io) <mailto:main@shalstest.groups.io>
Your message couldn't be delivered. When Office 365 tried to send the message, the external email server returned the error below.
.
.
.
*Diagnostic information for administrators:*
Generating server: CH2PR19MB3989.namprd19.prod.outlook.com
main@shalstest.groups.io <mailto:main@shalstest.groups.io>
Remote Server returned '550 5.0.350 Remote server returned an error -> 500 Your subscription has not yet been approved.'
--------------------------------------------
The actual reason for the bounce message is buried way, way, way further down in the administrator diagnostic information: Your subscription has not yet been approved.
Once your membership is approved, you then get whatever welcome message that group's administration has set up to go out for new members.
After you have received the welcome message, you will no longer get the bounce messages like the one noted above.  But your first message will still be held for review and no other messages will go out to the group if you send them until the group administration has reviewed and released your first one.
So, if you get a bounce message, it makes sense to search it for the phrase, /*Diagnostic information for administrators*/, and then review a few of the lines below that line.  Right after the group's main address you should hit the line that tells you precisely why you got the bounce message.
This is likely to remain the same for the foreseeable future, and if you're joining a lot of groups you cannot presume that they're all unrestricted groups like most of the blind-tech-centric groups are.
--
Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043
*/Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth./*
~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in /New York Times/ article, /How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States/ <https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/23/health/anti-vaccination-movement-us.html>/,/September 23, 2019


moderated Re: need help installing jaws 2022.

Steven Hicks
 

What is happening?

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sue J. Ward
Sent: 24 December 2021 04:41
To: jaws list <jfw@groups.io>
Subject: need help installing jaws 2022.

Hello. I did take notice in the programs and features I do have the Microsoft visual tools 2015 to 2019 packages on my PC and want to install the next version of jaws, have tried several times and nothing.
So how to fix this so I can install this update? I do have everything up to date since I only have one upgrade left which I can get jaws 2023. If I do decide to install the offline version is everything included in the package? I do use jaws every now and then to get stuff done. So if anyone could give me some tips to work around this so I can get it up and running that would be great. Thank you. Happy Holidays!
____________________________________________________________
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moderated Re: Buying a laptop

Jason White
 

Mine has a numeric key pad and no issues with audio drivers. Its current equivalent model is the Lenovo ThinkPad P15.

It is, however, larger and heavier than most laptops. If you don’t mind that, then this class of machine works well with screen readers and offers excellent performance (depending on what memory, CPU and SSD components you choose when you prepare your order). I don’t know which audio controller is used in the current model.

Mine spends almost all of its time on a desk in my apartment, but it’s portable enough that I can take it with me if needed.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: Thursday, 23 December 2021 12:44
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

 

Lori is correct. If a user prefers a number pad as part of the keyboard and if having one makes things easier then the user should have it. While I’m personally fine with using my preferred external keyboard with my laptop this definitely reduces the portability if you frequently travel.

One consideration that hasn’t been mentioned is the problematic audio latency issues when using screen readers with some (but definitely not all) Realtek drivers. The Microsoft store had a sale with an Asus Vivobook laptop which I bought for my sighted wife. Its performance was impressive but I noticed a delay between pressing a key and hearing the screen reader speak the results of that key press. This was true for both typing characters as well as navigating with arrow keys. Disabling audio enhancements definitely helped but there was still a slight delay which I was unable to fix no matter what I tried which included installing the latest Realtek drivers and running the SFC and Dism commands. My sixth generation I7 Dell Lattitude, which also uses Realtek drivers, provides completely instant response and if I can’t have that same level of responsiveness with an 11th-generation I5 I don’t want the laptop. I’ve alerted Asus about this but wanted to throw that out there as a possible warning. Based on feedback from these groups I’m assuming the problem isn’t all that common but it happens enough that I think some organized advocacy with Realtek is definitely in order.

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lori Lynn
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:12 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

 

I also went through the process of buying a new laptop this summer. It was more complicated by the fact that I live in a very small town and the nearest place to actually look at more than 2 or 3 is about 50 miles away. I also strongly wanted a numpad as well. Part of it is I’m older and wanted what I’m use to having. Part of it is also because I felt that having a separate keyboard was more cumbersome than I wanted to deal with. I ended up getting a 17 inch Del through Amazon. I found that if it has a numpad then it will be mentioned in the description. Remember that you are the one who will be using it, so get what you want and can afford.

 

Lori Lynn

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Abraham Sweiss
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 10:53 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

 

I would buy an external keyboard

Thanks,abraham 

 

On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:54 AM, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:



If having a numeric keypad on your laptop’s keyboard is important to you I’d recommend two things. First, look at the description of the laptop on the page since it might mention that a number pad is included. If it doesn’t I would send a link to a sighted person to ask if they see a number pad on the keyboard.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Phillip Gross
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:07 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

 

I, like others, don't use the numpad. In fact, at home where I use a bluetooth keyboard, I still use laptop layout, but that's just my preference. 

Anyway, you have two options. If you never travel with your laptop, then I would go get a keyboard that you like. Try several and see which one fits you best. If you do travel with your laptop, then get an external numpad. That will fit in a laptop bag and shouldn't take up much room.


moderated Re: email client question

 

On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 11:35 AM, Van Lant, Robin wrote:
And could there be a setting by the owner where  you can only send a certain number of message to a given group in a day? 
-
Not that I can find.

Groups.io, like most other services, does have behind the scenes "flooding control" where if there is a sudden, massive influx of messages from a single address those will get blocked, but none of the Spam Control options open to a group owner allow you to set a limit on the number of messages per member per day.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

       ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019


moderated Re: Buying a laptop

Tom Behler
 

Robin:

Thanks so much for this very valuable overview. I'm saving it for future reference.

I fully realize that if I do end up getting something without a numpad, I'm going to have to delve into this much more deeply.

But, this gives me a good idea for starters, and is very encouraging.

I hope it helps others than just me.

Sincerely,
Dr. Tom Behler from Michigan

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Van Lant, Robin via groups.io
Sent: Friday, December 24, 2021 11:32 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Tom,
Here at work, I have an HP elitbook with no numpad. I have it set to laptop layout and use the caps lock as a secondary JAWS key. I don't think I've every used desktop layout with JAWS, so I'll just describe how it works with laptop.

The J, K, and L keys on the main keyboard become the 4, 5 and 6 on the numpad. U, I and O become the 7, 8 and 9, and the m, comma, and period keys become 1, 2 and 3. When I hold the JAWS key (caps lock with my left pinky) then the k key, it acts like the numpad 5 command to say the current word. If I hit it twice quickly, it spells the word. There are typically small numbers on these keys for sighted users, as this truly acts like a numpad for any user of the laptop, when the NumLock is on. Think about an accountant who does not have separate numpad, but needs to enter a lot of numbers. That user would hit the NumLock key then use the key's I've mentioned like a numpad. I honestly don't know where the zero key or other math function keys are in this case, but a sighted user would see it noted on the keys.

Hope that gives you a sense. Frankly, even on my 17 inch laptop with the separate numpad, I'm so used to using the commands as I described, that I do not think to move my right hand to the numpad for commands.






-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 2:11 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

WARNING: This email originated externally. Exercise caution. Think before clicking links or opening attachments.


Ok, Bill.

This givbes me an idea, and I'll pursue more via the Jaws help files if needed.

Appreciate the quick response.

Tom Behler


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 3:55 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

The keystroke for invoking Say All (INSERT plus Two on the numbers row) is,

CAPS LOCK+A or CAPS LOCK+DOWN ARROW

Bill White

billwhite92701@...


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:37 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

So, for example, if I wanted to invoke the insert 2 command for reading a document, how would you do that on a laptop with no numpad?

I can obviously check in the Jaws help documentation if I need much more detail, so this is simply an item of curiosity at this point.

Tom Behler


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 3:28 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Hi, Tom. You'd need to switch to laptop keyboard mode, and use the letters and punctuation keys on the home row, and the rows above and below the home row.

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Of course, you're correct, Bill.

Had a brain lapse, and simply didn't think of it that way.

So, how do you typically invoke the normal Jaws reading commands like insert 2 and insert 3 on a tablet or laptop that does not have a numpad?

Tom Behler


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 3:10 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Hi, Tom. No, this is not correct. For example, if you press INSERT plus the number two on the numbers row, it changes what JAWS echos, between Characters, Words, characters and words, and nothing. If you press INSERT plus the number two on the NumPad, it will begin reading in Say All mode. So, the INSERT key plus the numbers on the numbers row don't invoke the same commands as the numbers on the NumPad.

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 11:55 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

All:

I may have more questions about this as I proceed further, but if you purchase a windows tablet or laptop without a numpad, will there be any problems invoking certain Jaws reading commands, like Insert 2, Insert 3, etc.?

I would assume you could use the numbers on the main number row, and the insert key on the normal keyboard.

Is this correct?

Thank you!

Dr. Tom Behler From Michigan



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bonnie Vegiard
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 2:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on buying the laptop. I am so used to the desktop layout that I have relied on the NUM pad, and I found it difficult to switch over. Also, I have some vision, so a larger screen is helpful. The guy who is going to make a recommendation did come through, but he recommended one with a touchscreen, which I think is only going to complicate things for me. Still trying to decide whether to get a bigger laptop, or just get a num pad to go with the one I’ve got. But I appreciate all your thoughts.

Bonnie Vegiard
On Dec 23, 2021, at 12:50 PM, Zachary Morris <morriszachary99@...> wrote:

I think I remember that issue on my old dell laptop. Although I’m not quite sure if it was because of realtek drivers or some other reason; when I switched to the microsoft audio driver, I don’t quite remember if that fixed it; I remember doing way too much configuration for my own good when I started using that laptop.
Regards,
Zach
Sent from my MacBook Air (Retina, 13-inch, 2020)

On Dec 23, 2021, at 11:43, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:

Lori is correct. If a user prefers a number pad as part of the keyboard and if having one makes things easier then the user should have it. While I’m personally fine with using my preferred external keyboard with my laptop this definitely reduces the portability if you frequently travel.
One consideration that hasn’t been mentioned is the problematic audio latency issues when using screen readers with some (but definitely not all) Realtek drivers. The Microsoft store had a sale with an Asus Vivobook laptop which I bought for my sighted wife. Its performance was impressive but I noticed a delay between pressing a key and hearing the screen reader speak the results of that key press. This was true for both typing characters as well as navigating with arrow keys. Disabling audio enhancements definitely helped but there was still a slight delay which I was unable to fix no matter what I tried which included installing the latest Realtek drivers and running the SFC and Dism commands. My sixth generation I7 Dell Lattitude, which also uses Realtek drivers, provides completely instant response and if I can’t have that same level of responsiveness with an 11th-generation I5 I don’t want the laptop. I’ve alerted Asus about this but wanted to throw that out there as a possible warning. Based on feedback from these groups I’m assuming the problem isn’t all that common but it happens enough that I think some organized advocacy with Realtek is definitely in order.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.DavidGoldfield.org__;!!LteP8qm
F6ok6!cJXa_0coE5L5z_8rMQzeP3HwVHza-3Zv6G0DrNVnK_nGf3PM_kWUCxruo7nnvhq
3cjc$



From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lori Lynn
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:12 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I also went through the process of buying a new laptop this summer. It was more complicated by the fact that I live in a very small town and the nearest place to actually look at more than 2 or 3 is about 50 miles away. I also strongly wanted a numpad as well. Part of it is I’m older and wanted what I’m use to having. Part of it is also because I felt that having a separate keyboard was more cumbersome than I wanted to deal with. I ended up getting a 17 inch Del through Amazon. I found that if it has a numpad then it will be mentioned in the description. Remember that you are the one who will be using it, so get what you want and can afford.

Lori Lynn


From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Abraham
Sweiss
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 10:53 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I would buy an external keyboard

Thanks,abraham


On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:54 AM, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:


If having a numeric keypad on your laptop’s keyboard is important to you I’d recommend two things. First, look at the description of the laptop on the page since it might mention that a number pad is included. If it doesn’t I would send a link to a sighted person to ask if they see a number pad on the keyboard.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.DavidGoldfield.org__;!!LteP8qm
F6ok6!cJXa_0coE5L5z_8rMQzeP3HwVHza-3Zv6G0DrNVnK_nGf3PM_kWUCxruo7nnvhq
3cjc$



From: main@jfw.groups.io<main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Phillip
Gross
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:07 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I, like others, don't use the numpad. In fact, at home where I use a bluetooth keyboard, I still use laptop layout, but that's just my preference.

Anyway, you have two options. If you never travel with your laptop, then I would go get a keyboard that you like. Try several and see which one fits you best. If you do travel with your laptop, then get an external numpad. That will fit in a laptop bag and shouldn't take up much room.




















































KeyCorp Public

This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost as a result of any transmission errors. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of this information. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy.

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moderated Re: email client question

Van Lant, Robin
 

And could there be a setting by the owner where  you can only send a certain number of message to a given group in a day?  I have a group where that is the expected group rule, but I don’t know if it’s an actual setting that can be adjusted by the owner.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 1:17 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email client question

 

WARNING: This email originated externally. Exercise caution. Think before clicking links or opening attachments.

 

Just so it's on record, I have opened an issue with Groups.io.

I actually believe that what's being seen with those bounce messages is the result of a specific setting the group owner has on where if you try to send any message after you've subscribed and replied to the confirm message, but where they have not yet approved your membership, results in a bounce.  And that bounce message makes it appear as though the groups.io address you're sending to does not exist, but it does.

I did some testing earlier with an outlook address with a testing group and got bounce messages back after having confirmed my subscription up until I approved that outlook address used for group membership.  Most groups are not set up to require approval of group membership (though they can be); you most often have automatic membership acceptance upon subscribing and your first message is held until the group owner or moderator approves it.

If this turns out to be the case for the groups issuing those bounce messages, I'll let everyone know once I have an answer back from Groups.io support.  I suspect it will be, and it has nothing to do with whether outlook.com is the domain from which the requests come or not.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

       ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019



KeyCorp Public

This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost as a result of any transmission errors. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of this information. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy.

This communication is for informational purposes only, is not an offer, solicitation, recommendation or commitment for any transaction or to buy or sell any security or other financial product, and is not intended as investment advice or as a confirmation of any transaction. Any market price, indicative value, estimate, view, opinion, data or other information herein is not warranted as to completeness or accuracy, is subject to change without notice, and KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. accepts no liability for its use or to update or keep it current. Any views or opinions are those of the individual sender, not necessarily of KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc.

The sender of this communication is a licensed securities representative employed by or associated with KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. Member FINRA/SIPC and may also represent KeyBank National Association (“KeyBank N.A.”). Securities products and services are offered by KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. Banking products and services are offered by KeyBank N.A.

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If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or services from Key send an e-mail to DNERequests@... with 'No Promotional E-mails' in the SUBJECT line.


moderated Re: Buying a laptop

Van Lant, Robin
 

Tom,
Here at work, I have an HP elitbook with no numpad. I have it set to laptop layout and use the caps lock as a secondary JAWS key. I don't think I've every used desktop layout with JAWS, so I'll just describe how it works with laptop.

The J, K, and L keys on the main keyboard become the 4, 5 and 6 on the numpad. U, I and O become the 7, 8 and 9, and the m, comma, and period keys become 1, 2 and 3. When I hold the JAWS key (caps lock with my left pinky) then the k key, it acts like the numpad 5 command to say the current word. If I hit it twice quickly, it spells the word. There are typically small numbers on these keys for sighted users, as this truly acts like a numpad for any user of the laptop, when the NumLock is on. Think about an accountant who does not have separate numpad, but needs to enter a lot of numbers. That user would hit the NumLock key then use the key's I've mentioned like a numpad. I honestly don't know where the zero key or other math function keys are in this case, but a sighted user would see it noted on the keys.

Hope that gives you a sense. Frankly, even on my 17 inch laptop with the separate numpad, I'm so used to using the commands as I described, that I do not think to move my right hand to the numpad for commands.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 2:11 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

WARNING: This email originated externally. Exercise caution. Think before clicking links or opening attachments.


Ok, Bill.

This givbes me an idea, and I'll pursue more via the Jaws help files if needed.

Appreciate the quick response.

Tom Behler


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 3:55 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

The keystroke for invoking Say All (INSERT plus Two on the numbers row) is,

CAPS LOCK+A or CAPS LOCK+DOWN ARROW

Bill White

billwhite92701@...


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:37 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

So, for example, if I wanted to invoke the insert 2 command for reading a document, how would you do that on a laptop with no numpad?

I can obviously check in the Jaws help documentation if I need much more detail, so this is simply an item of curiosity at this point.

Tom Behler


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 3:28 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Hi, Tom. You'd need to switch to laptop keyboard mode, and use the letters and punctuation keys on the home row, and the rows above and below the home row.

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Of course, you're correct, Bill.

Had a brain lapse, and simply didn't think of it that way.

So, how do you typically invoke the normal Jaws reading commands like insert 2 and insert 3 on a tablet or laptop that does not have a numpad?

Tom Behler


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 3:10 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Hi, Tom. No, this is not correct. For example, if you press INSERT plus the number two on the numbers row, it changes what JAWS echos, between Characters, Words, characters and words, and nothing. If you press INSERT plus the number two on the NumPad, it will begin reading in Say All mode. So, the INSERT key plus the numbers on the numbers row don't invoke the same commands as the numbers on the NumPad.

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 11:55 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

All:

I may have more questions about this as I proceed further, but if you purchase a windows tablet or laptop without a numpad, will there be any problems invoking certain Jaws reading commands, like Insert 2, Insert 3, etc.?

I would assume you could use the numbers on the main number row, and the insert key on the normal keyboard.

Is this correct?

Thank you!

Dr. Tom Behler From Michigan



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bonnie Vegiard
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 2:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on buying the laptop. I am so used to the desktop layout that I have relied on the NUM pad, and I found it difficult to switch over. Also, I have some vision, so a larger screen is helpful. The guy who is going to make a recommendation did come through, but he recommended one with a touchscreen, which I think is only going to complicate things for me. Still trying to decide whether to get a bigger laptop, or just get a num pad to go with the one I’ve got. But I appreciate all your thoughts.

Bonnie Vegiard
On Dec 23, 2021, at 12:50 PM, Zachary Morris <morriszachary99@...> wrote:

I think I remember that issue on my old dell laptop. Although I’m not quite sure if it was because of realtek drivers or some other reason; when I switched to the microsoft audio driver, I don’t quite remember if that fixed it; I remember doing way too much configuration for my own good when I started using that laptop.
Regards,
Zach
Sent from my MacBook Air (Retina, 13-inch, 2020)

On Dec 23, 2021, at 11:43, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:

Lori is correct. If a user prefers a number pad as part of the keyboard and if having one makes things easier then the user should have it. While I’m personally fine with using my preferred external keyboard with my laptop this definitely reduces the portability if you frequently travel.
One consideration that hasn’t been mentioned is the problematic audio latency issues when using screen readers with some (but definitely not all) Realtek drivers. The Microsoft store had a sale with an Asus Vivobook laptop which I bought for my sighted wife. Its performance was impressive but I noticed a delay between pressing a key and hearing the screen reader speak the results of that key press. This was true for both typing characters as well as navigating with arrow keys. Disabling audio enhancements definitely helped but there was still a slight delay which I was unable to fix no matter what I tried which included installing the latest Realtek drivers and running the SFC and Dism commands. My sixth generation I7 Dell Lattitude, which also uses Realtek drivers, provides completely instant response and if I can’t have that same level of responsiveness with an 11th-generation I5 I don’t want the laptop. I’ve alerted Asus about this but wanted to throw that out there as a possible warning. Based on feedback from these groups I’m assuming the problem isn’t all that common but it happens enough that I think some organized advocacy with Realtek is definitely in order.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.DavidGoldfield.org__;!!LteP8qm
F6ok6!cJXa_0coE5L5z_8rMQzeP3HwVHza-3Zv6G0DrNVnK_nGf3PM_kWUCxruo7nnvhq
3cjc$



From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lori Lynn
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:12 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I also went through the process of buying a new laptop this summer. It was more complicated by the fact that I live in a very small town and the nearest place to actually look at more than 2 or 3 is about 50 miles away. I also strongly wanted a numpad as well. Part of it is I’m older and wanted what I’m use to having. Part of it is also because I felt that having a separate keyboard was more cumbersome than I wanted to deal with. I ended up getting a 17 inch Del through Amazon. I found that if it has a numpad then it will be mentioned in the description. Remember that you are the one who will be using it, so get what you want and can afford.

Lori Lynn


From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Abraham
Sweiss
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 10:53 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I would buy an external keyboard

Thanks,abraham


On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:54 AM, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:


If having a numeric keypad on your laptop’s keyboard is important to you I’d recommend two things. First, look at the description of the laptop on the page since it might mention that a number pad is included. If it doesn’t I would send a link to a sighted person to ask if they see a number pad on the keyboard.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.DavidGoldfield.org__;!!LteP8qm
F6ok6!cJXa_0coE5L5z_8rMQzeP3HwVHza-3Zv6G0DrNVnK_nGf3PM_kWUCxruo7nnvhq
3cjc$



From: main@jfw.groups.io<main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Phillip
Gross
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:07 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I, like others, don't use the numpad. In fact, at home where I use a bluetooth keyboard, I still use laptop layout, but that's just my preference.

Anyway, you have two options. If you never travel with your laptop, then I would go get a keyboard that you like. Try several and see which one fits you best. If you do travel with your laptop, then get an external numpad. That will fit in a laptop bag and shouldn't take up much room.




















































KeyCorp Public

This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost as a result of any transmission errors. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of this information. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy.

This communication is for informational purposes only, is not an offer, solicitation, recommendation or commitment for any transaction or to buy or sell any security or other financial product, and is not intended as investment advice or as a confirmation of any transaction. Any market price, indicative value, estimate, view, opinion, data or other information herein is not warranted as to completeness or accuracy, is subject to change without notice, and KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. accepts no liability for its use or to update or keep it current. Any views or opinions are those of the individual sender, not necessarily of KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc.

The sender of this communication is a licensed securities representative employed by or associated with KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. Member FINRA/SIPC and may also represent KeyBank National Association (“KeyBank N.A.”). Securities products and services are offered by KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. Banking products and services are offered by KeyBank N.A.

127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114

If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or services from Key send an e-mail to DNERequests@... with 'No Promotional E-mails' in the SUBJECT line.


moderated Re: Buying a laptop

Van Lant, Robin
 

Bonnie,
Since I have a touchscreen HP, I'll mention that the only real issues I've had is that the onscreen keyboard sometimes pops up. Based on a thread here a few months ago, I'm wondering if there is a setting on the locked screen that I need to adjust and just haven't done it yet, so I point that out. At least with my HP, if the onscreen keyboard pops up, the control key's don't work to do JAWS commands. I have no found a way to turn off that keyboard once it's on screen without sight; I have just enough sight to deal with it on the occasion it does pop up. Not to scare you away, just to be sure all settings for the keyboard to come up are turned off. Also, my kids or sighted husband will sometimes think that they can just touch the screen to activate something while JAWS is running and that doesn’t' work. I'm not sure if there is a key I must press to allow JAWS to pass through the touch gesture. The touchscreen worked when I was running Window-Eyes, but I'm all JAWS now and only find the touch screen useful if I turn off JAWS to let my kids or husband use the laptop. So, if that model works for you, go for it and just be sure all the onscreen keyboard options are off.

Robin

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bonnie Vegiard
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

WARNING: This email originated externally. Exercise caution. Think before clicking links or opening attachments.


Thanks everyone for your thoughts on buying the laptop. I am so used to the desktop layout that I have relied on the NUM pad, and I found it difficult to switch over. Also, I have some vision, so a larger screen is helpful. The guy who is going to make a recommendation did come through, but he recommended one with a touchscreen, which I think is only going to complicate things for me. Still trying to decide whether to get a bigger laptop, or just get a num pad to go with the one I’ve got. But I appreciate all your thoughts.

Bonnie Vegiard
On Dec 23, 2021, at 12:50 PM, Zachary Morris <morriszachary99@...> wrote:

I think I remember that issue on my old dell laptop. Although I’m not quite sure if it was because of realtek drivers or some other reason; when I switched to the microsoft audio driver, I don’t quite remember if that fixed it; I remember doing way too much configuration for my own good when I started using that laptop.
Regards,
Zach
Sent from my MacBook Air (Retina, 13-inch, 2020)

On Dec 23, 2021, at 11:43, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:

Lori is correct. If a user prefers a number pad as part of the keyboard and if having one makes things easier then the user should have it. While I’m personally fine with using my preferred external keyboard with my laptop this definitely reduces the portability if you frequently travel.
One consideration that hasn’t been mentioned is the problematic audio latency issues when using screen readers with some (but definitely not all) Realtek drivers. The Microsoft store had a sale with an Asus Vivobook laptop which I bought for my sighted wife. Its performance was impressive but I noticed a delay between pressing a key and hearing the screen reader speak the results of that key press. This was true for both typing characters as well as navigating with arrow keys. Disabling audio enhancements definitely helped but there was still a slight delay which I was unable to fix no matter what I tried which included installing the latest Realtek drivers and running the SFC and Dism commands. My sixth generation I7 Dell Lattitude, which also uses Realtek drivers, provides completely instant response and if I can’t have that same level of responsiveness with an 11th-generation I5 I don’t want the laptop. I’ve alerted Asus about this but wanted to throw that out there as a possible warning. Based on feedback from these groups I’m assuming the problem isn’t all that common but it happens enough that I think some organized advocacy with Realtek is definitely in order.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.DavidGoldfield.org__;!!LteP8qm
F6ok6!ft9-7KxksbEdQp-sUQKfzbUCA99syjof6D3S35IRfE2iD08fSF3SXHa3PSh2wKf
R2DI$



From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lori Lynn
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:12 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I also went through the process of buying a new laptop this summer. It was more complicated by the fact that I live in a very small town and the nearest place to actually look at more than 2 or 3 is about 50 miles away. I also strongly wanted a numpad as well. Part of it is I’m older and wanted what I’m use to having. Part of it is also because I felt that having a separate keyboard was more cumbersome than I wanted to deal with. I ended up getting a 17 inch Del through Amazon. I found that if it has a numpad then it will be mentioned in the description. Remember that you are the one who will be using it, so get what you want and can afford.

Lori Lynn


From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Abraham
Sweiss
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 10:53 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I would buy an external keyboard

Thanks,abraham


On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:54 AM, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:


If having a numeric keypad on your laptop’s keyboard is important to you I’d recommend two things. First, look at the description of the laptop on the page since it might mention that a number pad is included. If it doesn’t I would send a link to a sighted person to ask if they see a number pad on the keyboard.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.DavidGoldfield.org__;!!LteP8qm
F6ok6!ft9-7KxksbEdQp-sUQKfzbUCA99syjof6D3S35IRfE2iD08fSF3SXHa3PSh2wKf
R2DI$



From: main@jfw.groups.io<main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Phillip
Gross
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:07 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I, like others, don't use the numpad. In fact, at home where I use a bluetooth keyboard, I still use laptop layout, but that's just my preference.

Anyway, you have two options. If you never travel with your laptop, then I would go get a keyboard that you like. Try several and see which one fits you best. If you do travel with your laptop, then get an external numpad. That will fit in a laptop bag and shouldn't take up much room.










KeyCorp Public

This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost as a result of any transmission errors. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of this information. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy.

This communication is for informational purposes only, is not an offer, solicitation, recommendation or commitment for any transaction or to buy or sell any security or other financial product, and is not intended as investment advice or as a confirmation of any transaction. Any market price, indicative value, estimate, view, opinion, data or other information herein is not warranted as to completeness or accuracy, is subject to change without notice, and KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. accepts no liability for its use or to update or keep it current. Any views or opinions are those of the individual sender, not necessarily of KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc.

The sender of this communication is a licensed securities representative employed by or associated with KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. Member FINRA/SIPC and may also represent KeyBank National Association (“KeyBank N.A.”). Securities products and services are offered by KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc. Banking products and services are offered by KeyBank N.A.

127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114

If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or services from Key send an e-mail to DNERequests@... with 'No Promotional E-mails' in the SUBJECT line.


moderated Re: need help installing jaws 2022.

Curtis Chong
 

Sue:

We would need more information about specifically what is happening. Also, just to verify, you are running Windows 10, yes? What do you mean when you say you try to install JAWS 2022 and then nothing?

With best regards,

Curtis Chong

On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:51 PM, Sue J. Ward <groovy41@...> wrote:

 Hello. I did take notice in the programs and features I do have the Microsoft visual tools 2015 to 2019 packages on my PC and want to install the next version of jaws, have tried several times and nothing. So how to fix this so I can install this update? I do have everything up to date since I only have one upgrade left which I can get jaws 2023. If I do decide to install the offline version is everything included in the package? I do use jaws every now and then to get stuff done. So if anyone could give me some tips to work around this so I can get it up and running that would be great. Thank you. Happy Holidays!
____________________________________________________________
Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more

Falsely Accused Poll Workers Sue Giuliani, OAN
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/61c54f722c87c4f7174b2st01duc1
Israeli Experts Back 4th Dose
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/61c54f724b4cb4f7174b2st01duc2
Former Officer Kim Potter Guilty of Manslaughter
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/61c54f726a17a4f7174b2st01duc3


moderated need help installing jaws 2022.

Sue J. Ward
 

Hello. I did take notice in the programs and features I do have the Microsoft visual tools 2015 to 2019 packages on my PC and want to install the next version of jaws, have tried several times and nothing. So how to fix this so I can install this update? I do have everything up to date since I only have one upgrade left which I can get jaws 2023. If I do decide to install the offline version is everything included in the package? I do use jaws every now and then to get stuff done. So if anyone could give me some tips to work around this so I can get it up and running that would be great. Thank you. Happy Holidays!
____________________________________________________________
Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more

Falsely Accused Poll Workers Sue Giuliani, OAN
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/61c54f722c87c4f7174b2st01duc1
Israeli Experts Back 4th Dose
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/61c54f724b4cb4f7174b2st01duc2
Former Officer Kim Potter Guilty of Manslaughter
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/61c54f726a17a4f7174b2st01duc3


moderated Re: Buying a laptop

leonard morris
 

If you are using Jaws it might be easier to use the caps lock key as a Jaws  key that’s what I’ve done on my notebook it didn’t have a keypad

Every country has an identity, history, custom, and culture. It’s a unique landscape in determining how its people Live, work, and play.


On Dec 24, 2021, at 11:56 AM, Joseph Hudson <jhud7789@...> wrote:

Hi Tom, yes this is absolutely correct.

On Dec 23, 2021, at 1:55 PM, Tom Behler <tombehler@...> wrote:

All:

I may have more questions about this as I proceed further, but if you purchase a windows tablet or laptop without a numpad, will there be any problems invoking certain Jaws reading commands, like Insert 2, Insert 3, etc.?

I would assume you could use the numbers on the main number row, and the insert key on the normal keyboard.

Is this correct?

Thank you!

Dr.  Tom Behler From Michigan



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bonnie Vegiard
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 2:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on buying the laptop. I am so used to the desktop layout that I have relied on the NUM pad, and I found it difficult to switch over. Also, I have some vision, so a larger screen is helpful. The guy who is going to make a recommendation did  come through, but he recommended one with a touchscreen, which I think is only going to complicate things for me. Still trying to decide whether to get a bigger laptop, or just get a num pad to go with the one I’ve got. But I appreciate all your thoughts.

Bonnie Vegiard
On Dec 23, 2021, at 12:50 PM, Zachary Morris <morriszachary99@...> wrote:

I think I remember that issue on my old dell laptop. Although I’m not quite sure if it was because of realtek drivers or some other reason; when I switched to the microsoft audio driver, I don’t quite remember if that fixed it; I remember doing way too much configuration for my own good when I started using that laptop.
Regards,
Zach
Sent from my MacBook Air (Retina, 13-inch, 2020)

On Dec 23, 2021, at 11:43, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:

Lori is correct. If a user prefers a number pad as part of the keyboard and if having one makes things easier then the user should have it. While I’m personally fine with using my preferred external keyboard with my laptop this definitely reduces the portability if you frequently travel. 
One consideration that hasn’t been mentioned is the problematic audio latency issues when using screen readers with some (but definitely not all) Realtek drivers. The Microsoft store had a sale with an Asus Vivobook laptop which I bought for my sighted wife. Its performance was impressive but I noticed a delay between pressing a key and hearing the screen reader speak the results of that key press. This was true for both typing characters as well as navigating with arrow keys. Disabling audio enhancements definitely helped but there was still a slight delay which I was unable to fix no matter what I tried which included installing the latest Realtek drivers and running the SFC and Dism commands. My sixth generation I7 Dell Lattitude, which also uses Realtek drivers, provides completely instant response and if I can’t have that same level of responsiveness with an 11th-generation I5 I don’t want the laptop. I’ve alerted Asus about this but wanted to throw that out there as a possible warning. Based on feedback from these groups I’m assuming the problem isn’t all that common but it happens enough that I think some organized advocacy with Realtek is definitely in order.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019 
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org



From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lori Lynn
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:12 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I also went through the process of buying a new laptop this summer. It was more complicated by the fact that I live in a very small town and the nearest place to actually look at more than 2 or 3 is about 50 miles away. I also strongly wanted a numpad as well. Part of it is I’m older and wanted what I’m use to having. Part of it is also because I felt that having a separate keyboard was more cumbersome than I wanted to deal with. I ended up getting a 17 inch Del through Amazon. I found that if it has a numpad then it will be mentioned in the description. Remember that you are the one who will be using it, so get what you want and can afford.

Lori Lynn


From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Abraham 
Sweiss
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 10:53 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I would buy an external keyboard

Thanks,abraham


On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:54 AM, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:


If having a numeric keypad on your laptop’s keyboard is important to you I’d recommend two things. First, look at the description of the laptop on the page since it might mention that a number pad is included. If it doesn’t I would send a link to a sighted person to ask if they see a number pad on the keyboard.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019 
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org



From: main@jfw.groups.io<main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Phillip 
Gross
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:07 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I, like others, don't use the numpad. In fact, at home where I use a bluetooth keyboard, I still use laptop layout, but that's just my preference. 

Anyway, you have two options. If you never travel with your laptop, then I would go get a keyboard that you like. Try several and see which one fits you best. If you do travel with your laptop, then get an external numpad. That will fit in a laptop bag and shouldn't take up much room. 

















moderated Re: Buying a laptop

Joseph Hudson
 

Hi Tom, yes this is absolutely correct.

On Dec 23, 2021, at 1:55 PM, Tom Behler <tombehler@...> wrote:

All:

I may have more questions about this as I proceed further, but if you purchase a windows tablet or laptop without a numpad, will there be any problems invoking certain Jaws reading commands, like Insert 2, Insert 3, etc.?

I would assume you could use the numbers on the main number row, and the insert key on the normal keyboard.

Is this correct?

Thank you!

Dr.  Tom Behler From Michigan



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bonnie Vegiard
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 2:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on buying the laptop. I am so used to the desktop layout that I have relied on the NUM pad, and I found it difficult to switch over. Also, I have some vision, so a larger screen is helpful. The guy who is going to make a recommendation did  come through, but he recommended one with a touchscreen, which I think is only going to complicate things for me. Still trying to decide whether to get a bigger laptop, or just get a num pad to go with the one I’ve got. But I appreciate all your thoughts.

Bonnie Vegiard
On Dec 23, 2021, at 12:50 PM, Zachary Morris <morriszachary99@...> wrote:

I think I remember that issue on my old dell laptop. Although I’m not quite sure if it was because of realtek drivers or some other reason; when I switched to the microsoft audio driver, I don’t quite remember if that fixed it; I remember doing way too much configuration for my own good when I started using that laptop.
Regards,
Zach
Sent from my MacBook Air (Retina, 13-inch, 2020)

On Dec 23, 2021, at 11:43, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:

Lori is correct. If a user prefers a number pad as part of the keyboard and if having one makes things easier then the user should have it. While I’m personally fine with using my preferred external keyboard with my laptop this definitely reduces the portability if you frequently travel. 
One consideration that hasn’t been mentioned is the problematic audio latency issues when using screen readers with some (but definitely not all) Realtek drivers. The Microsoft store had a sale with an Asus Vivobook laptop which I bought for my sighted wife. Its performance was impressive but I noticed a delay between pressing a key and hearing the screen reader speak the results of that key press. This was true for both typing characters as well as navigating with arrow keys. Disabling audio enhancements definitely helped but there was still a slight delay which I was unable to fix no matter what I tried which included installing the latest Realtek drivers and running the SFC and Dism commands. My sixth generation I7 Dell Lattitude, which also uses Realtek drivers, provides completely instant response and if I can’t have that same level of responsiveness with an 11th-generation I5 I don’t want the laptop. I’ve alerted Asus about this but wanted to throw that out there as a possible warning. Based on feedback from these groups I’m assuming the problem isn’t all that common but it happens enough that I think some organized advocacy with Realtek is definitely in order.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019 
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org



From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lori Lynn
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:12 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I also went through the process of buying a new laptop this summer. It was more complicated by the fact that I live in a very small town and the nearest place to actually look at more than 2 or 3 is about 50 miles away. I also strongly wanted a numpad as well. Part of it is I’m older and wanted what I’m use to having. Part of it is also because I felt that having a separate keyboard was more cumbersome than I wanted to deal with. I ended up getting a 17 inch Del through Amazon. I found that if it has a numpad then it will be mentioned in the description. Remember that you are the one who will be using it, so get what you want and can afford.

Lori Lynn


From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Abraham 
Sweiss
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 10:53 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I would buy an external keyboard

Thanks,abraham


On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:54 AM, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:


If having a numeric keypad on your laptop’s keyboard is important to you I’d recommend two things. First, look at the description of the laptop on the page since it might mention that a number pad is included. If it doesn’t I would send a link to a sighted person to ask if they see a number pad on the keyboard.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019 
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org



From: main@jfw.groups.io<main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Phillip 
Gross
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:07 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I, like others, don't use the numpad. In fact, at home where I use a bluetooth keyboard, I still use laptop layout, but that's just my preference. 

Anyway, you have two options. If you never travel with your laptop, then I would go get a keyboard that you like. Try several and see which one fits you best. If you do travel with your laptop, then get an external numpad. That will fit in a laptop bag and shouldn't take up much room. 

















moderated Re: Buying a laptop

Tom Behler
 

So, Dan, I'm just curious: What do those key strokes do, exactly?

Just curious.

Tom Behler

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 7:54 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Hi,
Laptop JAWS key is CTRL. So CTRL & down arrow using the four arrow keys gives same result. I use the laptop layout even on my desktop so that I have the same keystrokes in mind no matter the computer.

Dan


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 3:37 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

So, for example, if I wanted to invoke the insert 2 command for reading a document, how would you do that on a laptop with no numpad?

I can obviously check in the Jaws help documentation if I need much more detail, so this is simply an item of curiosity at this point.

Tom Behler


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 3:28 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Hi, Tom. You'd need to switch to laptop keyboard mode, and use the letters and punctuation keys on the home row, and the rows above and below the home row.

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Of course, you're correct, Bill.

Had a brain lapse, and simply didn't think of it that way.

So, how do you typically invoke the normal Jaws reading commands like insert 2 and insert 3 on a tablet or laptop that does not have a numpad?

Tom Behler


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 3:10 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Hi, Tom. No, this is not correct. For example, if you press INSERT plus the number two on the numbers row, it changes what JAWS echos, between Characters, Words, characters and words, and nothing. If you press INSERT plus the number two on the NumPad, it will begin reading in Say All mode. So, the INSERT key plus the numbers on the numbers row don't invoke the same commands as the numbers on the NumPad.

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 11:55 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

All:

I may have more questions about this as I proceed further, but if you purchase a windows tablet or laptop without a numpad, will there be any problems invoking certain Jaws reading commands, like Insert 2, Insert 3, etc.?

I would assume you could use the numbers on the main number row, and the insert key on the normal keyboard.

Is this correct?

Thank you!

Dr. Tom Behler From Michigan



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bonnie Vegiard
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 2:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on buying the laptop. I am so used to the desktop layout that I have relied on the NUM pad, and I found it difficult to switch over. Also, I have some vision, so a larger screen is helpful. The guy who is going to make a recommendation did come through, but he recommended one with a touchscreen, which I think is only going to complicate things for me. Still trying to decide whether to get a bigger laptop, or just get a num pad to go with the one I’ve got. But I appreciate all your thoughts.

Bonnie Vegiard
On Dec 23, 2021, at 12:50 PM, Zachary Morris <morriszachary99@...> wrote:

I think I remember that issue on my old dell laptop. Although I’m not quite sure if it was because of realtek drivers or some other reason; when I switched to the microsoft audio driver, I don’t quite remember if that fixed it; I remember doing way too much configuration for my own good when I started using that laptop.
Regards,
Zach
Sent from my MacBook Air (Retina, 13-inch, 2020)

On Dec 23, 2021, at 11:43, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:

Lori is correct. If a user prefers a number pad as part of the keyboard and if having one makes things easier then the user should have it. While I’m personally fine with using my preferred external keyboard with my laptop this definitely reduces the portability if you frequently travel.
One consideration that hasn’t been mentioned is the problematic audio latency issues when using screen readers with some (but definitely not all) Realtek drivers. The Microsoft store had a sale with an Asus Vivobook laptop which I bought for my sighted wife. Its performance was impressive but I noticed a delay between pressing a key and hearing the screen reader speak the results of that key press. This was true for both typing characters as well as navigating with arrow keys. Disabling audio enhancements definitely helped but there was still a slight delay which I was unable to fix no matter what I tried which included installing the latest Realtek drivers and running the SFC and Dism commands. My sixth generation I7 Dell Lattitude, which also uses Realtek drivers, provides completely instant response and if I can’t have that same level of responsiveness with an 11th-generation I5 I don’t want the laptop. I’ve alerted Asus about this but wanted to throw that out there as a possible warning. Based on feedback from these groups I’m assuming the problem isn’t all that common but it happens enough that I think some organized advocacy with Realtek is definitely in order.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org



From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lori Lynn
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:12 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I also went through the process of buying a new laptop this summer. It was more complicated by the fact that I live in a very small town and the nearest place to actually look at more than 2 or 3 is about 50 miles away. I also strongly wanted a numpad as well. Part of it is I’m older and wanted what I’m use to having. Part of it is also because I felt that having a separate keyboard was more cumbersome than I wanted to deal with. I ended up getting a 17 inch Del through Amazon. I found that if it has a numpad then it will be mentioned in the description. Remember that you are the one who will be using it, so get what you want and can afford.

Lori Lynn


From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Abraham
Sweiss
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 10:53 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I would buy an external keyboard

Thanks,abraham


On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:54 AM, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:


If having a numeric keypad on your laptop’s keyboard is important to you I’d recommend two things. First, look at the description of the laptop on the page since it might mention that a number pad is included. If it doesn’t I would send a link to a sighted person to ask if they see a number pad on the keyboard.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org



From: main@jfw.groups.io<main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Phillip
Gross
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:07 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I, like others, don't use the numpad. In fact, at home where I use a bluetooth keyboard, I still use laptop layout, but that's just my preference.

Anyway, you have two options. If you never travel with your laptop, then I would go get a keyboard that you like. Try several and see which one fits you best. If you do travel with your laptop, then get an external numpad. That will fit in a laptop bag and shouldn't take up much room.





moderated Re: Buying a laptop

Dan Longmore
 

Hi,
Laptop JAWS key is CTRL. So CTRL & down arrow using the four arrow keys gives same result. I use the laptop layout even on my desktop so that I have the same keystrokes in mind no matter the computer.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 3:37 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

So, for example, if I wanted to invoke the insert 2 command for reading a document, how would you do that on a laptop with no numpad?

I can obviously check in the Jaws help documentation if I need much more detail, so this is simply an item of curiosity at this point.

Tom Behler


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 3:28 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Hi, Tom. You'd need to switch to laptop keyboard mode, and use the letters and punctuation keys on the home row, and the rows above and below the home row.

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Of course, you're correct, Bill.

Had a brain lapse, and simply didn't think of it that way.

So, how do you typically invoke the normal Jaws reading commands like insert 2 and insert 3 on a tablet or laptop that does not have a numpad?

Tom Behler


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 3:10 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Hi, Tom. No, this is not correct. For example, if you press INSERT plus the number two on the numbers row, it changes what JAWS echos, between Characters, Words, characters and words, and nothing. If you press INSERT plus the number two on the NumPad, it will begin reading in Say All mode. So, the INSERT key plus the numbers on the numbers row don't invoke the same commands as the numbers on the NumPad.

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 11:55 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

All:

I may have more questions about this as I proceed further, but if you purchase a windows tablet or laptop without a numpad, will there be any problems invoking certain Jaws reading commands, like Insert 2, Insert 3, etc.?

I would assume you could use the numbers on the main number row, and the insert key on the normal keyboard.

Is this correct?

Thank you!

Dr. Tom Behler From Michigan



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bonnie Vegiard
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 2:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on buying the laptop. I am so used to the desktop layout that I have relied on the NUM pad, and I found it difficult to switch over. Also, I have some vision, so a larger screen is helpful. The guy who is going to make a recommendation did come through, but he recommended one with a touchscreen, which I think is only going to complicate things for me. Still trying to decide whether to get a bigger laptop, or just get a num pad to go with the one I’ve got. But I appreciate all your thoughts.

Bonnie Vegiard
On Dec 23, 2021, at 12:50 PM, Zachary Morris <morriszachary99@...> wrote:

I think I remember that issue on my old dell laptop. Although I’m not quite sure if it was because of realtek drivers or some other reason; when I switched to the microsoft audio driver, I don’t quite remember if that fixed it; I remember doing way too much configuration for my own good when I started using that laptop.
Regards,
Zach
Sent from my MacBook Air (Retina, 13-inch, 2020)

On Dec 23, 2021, at 11:43, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:

Lori is correct. If a user prefers a number pad as part of the keyboard and if having one makes things easier then the user should have it. While I’m personally fine with using my preferred external keyboard with my laptop this definitely reduces the portability if you frequently travel.
One consideration that hasn’t been mentioned is the problematic audio latency issues when using screen readers with some (but definitely not all) Realtek drivers. The Microsoft store had a sale with an Asus Vivobook laptop which I bought for my sighted wife. Its performance was impressive but I noticed a delay between pressing a key and hearing the screen reader speak the results of that key press. This was true for both typing characters as well as navigating with arrow keys. Disabling audio enhancements definitely helped but there was still a slight delay which I was unable to fix no matter what I tried which included installing the latest Realtek drivers and running the SFC and Dism commands. My sixth generation I7 Dell Lattitude, which also uses Realtek drivers, provides completely instant response and if I can’t have that same level of responsiveness with an 11th-generation I5 I don’t want the laptop. I’ve alerted Asus about this but wanted to throw that out there as a possible warning. Based on feedback from these groups I’m assuming the problem isn’t all that common but it happens enough that I think some organized advocacy with Realtek is definitely in order.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org



From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lori Lynn
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:12 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I also went through the process of buying a new laptop this summer. It was more complicated by the fact that I live in a very small town and the nearest place to actually look at more than 2 or 3 is about 50 miles away. I also strongly wanted a numpad as well. Part of it is I’m older and wanted what I’m use to having. Part of it is also because I felt that having a separate keyboard was more cumbersome than I wanted to deal with. I ended up getting a 17 inch Del through Amazon. I found that if it has a numpad then it will be mentioned in the description. Remember that you are the one who will be using it, so get what you want and can afford.

Lori Lynn


From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Abraham
Sweiss
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 10:53 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I would buy an external keyboard

Thanks,abraham


On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:54 AM, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:


If having a numeric keypad on your laptop’s keyboard is important to you I’d recommend two things. First, look at the description of the laptop on the page since it might mention that a number pad is included. If it doesn’t I would send a link to a sighted person to ask if they see a number pad on the keyboard.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org



From: main@jfw.groups.io<main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Phillip
Gross
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:07 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I, like others, don't use the numpad. In fact, at home where I use a bluetooth keyboard, I still use laptop layout, but that's just my preference.

Anyway, you have two options. If you never travel with your laptop, then I would go get a keyboard that you like. Try several and see which one fits you best. If you do travel with your laptop, then get an external numpad. That will fit in a laptop bag and shouldn't take up much room.





moderated Re: perplexing punctuation problem

Dennis Brown
 

Just a question... Are you using English language version? I don't know if
it would matter if you were using Spanish, or some other language, but
thought I'd ask.
Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Orlando Enrique
Fiol via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:35 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: perplexing punctuation problem

At 02:29 PM 12/22/2021, Ben Moxey wrote:
>I've got 194, too. Have you tried using the "Restore Defaults" button in
the >Customise Punctuation dialog box?



I have indeed tried restoring defaults, to no avail. The plot thickens,
though. Even when my punctuation list numbers only 72 entries, the settings
for the missing entries are still applied; I know this because, depending on
the speech synthesizer, the 194 punctuation list entries sometimes load. Go
figure!
Orlando Enrique Fiol
Charlotte, North Carolina
Professional Pianist/Keyboardist, Percussionist and Pedagogue Ph.D. in Music
theory University of Pennsylvania: November, 2018
Home: (980) 585-1516
Mobile: (267) 971-7090








--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


moderated Re: Outlook.com and Groups.io - Bounce messages are not about Outlook.com

 

One additional piece of information, that is specific to Outlook.com, is this, from another group administrator responding to my complaint that the reason for the bounce is not obvious:

It would be if Outlook didn't insert all that extra crap up front.  Other email services don't add it, so the error is right at the top.

So all the gobbledy-gook that Outlook inserts ahead of the line that starts with, "Diagnostic information," are only Outlook, and they make the situation more confusing, not less.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

       ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019


moderated Re: Outlook.com and Groups.io - Bounce messages are not about Outlook.com

 

On Thu, Dec 23, 2021 at 06:03 PM, Madison Martin wrote:
Okay, so what about for groups that you’re already a member of and your message doesn’t go through what should you do?
-
Contact the group owner.

As a group admin, I have noticed that you have both subscribed/unsubscribed and used the web to change your email address on multiple occasons on one of the groups for which I'm an admin.  You need to make certain you are still a member of the group.  If you are, then the group owner needs to check what's going on in the activity logs when you send a message, as something is logged whether that message is accepted or refused.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

       ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

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