Hi all,
Can anyone tell me how I go back to Windows 10? Is it something that I
can do simply using Jaws and my braille display like when I do a
Windows update, or would I need sighted assistance? Upgrading is
generally fairly easy/simple to do (though I realize that this might
not be the case for everyone) and if downgrading is the same then I'd
much rather do that then get help to uninstall and then re-install
Windows 11 because this seems far less risky and nerve-wracking. Plus
I didn't have this issue when using Windows 10 and Jaws
2022 and I know that Windows 10 will be supported for awhile longer.
Really hope
someone can help me just as you have all tried to do to fix this
issue, I really appreciate it, I just wish that someone's suggestion
had worked and then it wouldn't have had to come to this. Thanks
Madison

Hi all,
Can anyone tell me how I go back to Windows 10? Is it something that I can
do
simply using Jaws and my braille display like when I do a Windows update,
or
would I need sighted assistance? Upgrading is generally fairly easy/simple
to do
(though I realize that this might not be the case for everyone) and if
downgrading is the same then I'd much rather do that then get help to
uninstall
and then re-install Windows 11 because this seems far less risky and
nerve-wracking. Plus I didn't have this issue when using Windows 10 and
Jaws
2022 and I know that Windows 10 will be supported for awhile longer.
Really hope
someone can help me just as you have all tried to do to fix this issue, I
really
appreciate it, I just wish that someone's suggestion had worked and then
it
wouldn't have had to come to this. Thanks
Madison

Hi all,
Can anyone tell me how I go back to Windows 10? Is it something that I can do
simply using Jaws and my braille display like when I do a Windows update, or
would I need sighted assistance? Upgrading is generally fairly easy/simple to do
(though I realize that this might not be the case for everyone) and if
downgrading is the same then I'd much rather do that then get help to uninstall
and then re-install Windows 11 because this seems far less risky and
nerve-wracking. Plus I didn't have this issue when using Windows 10 and Jaws
2022 and I know that Windows 10 will be supported for awhile longer. Really hope
someone can help me just as you have all tried to do to fix this issue, I really
appreciate it, I just wish that someone's suggestion had worked and then it
wouldn't have had to come to this. Thanks
Madison

If it is on different lists, she has done not one thing wrong and I support her asking as many as needed to get the answers sought. Remember, your delete key is, as you all often state, your option. Is a cross is done and yuou seem to be on more than one list, again, hit your delete key. She has done nothing wrong and just because you get a second or a third identical message from all you hold membership within, you are the individual with many memberships, she has not done one thing in error within any one individual group list. Get over it and move on...

And let's all keep in mind that not everybody is an old hand at using mailing lists. I happen to know that Madison is quite young so instead of criticizing let's tell her that cross-posting or posting the same question on multiple lists at the same time without giving one list a chance to provide answers is considered bad etiquette because many of use are on the Jaws and WinAccess lists she is in any case asking the same people and she may not realize this. We are all here to either educate or be educated and it's always a good idea to give somebody the benefit of the doubt at least until they have really proven they are not able or willing to get it. I think, for example, if somebody had replied explaining how this is considered to be bad list etiquette sending it privately is even a better approach.

On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 12:41 PM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:

But although annoying, I don't consider it cross-posting if the messages were sent separately.

-
Whether cross-posting, or multi-posting, the end result is the same.  And the article I referenced gives a better explanation of why this has been considered "poor form" for as long as I've been participating on technical support forums or emailing lists.

And the warning the gentleman who wrote that article gives is, I can assure you, quite true.  You can and will eventually be ignored once you have a reputation for multi-posting/cross-posting.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected.

    ~ William Plomer

hi can someone tell me if i can use jaws 2020 with windows seven,
and re down grading i would also be interested to no re this.
stew
----- Original Message -----
From: "Madison Martin" <maddymartin@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2021 2:16 PM
Subject: downgrading to Windows 10

Hi all,
Can anyone tell me how I go back to Windows 10? Is it something that I can do
simply using Jaws and my braille display like when I do a Windows update, or
would I need sighted assistance? Upgrading is generally fairly easy/simple to do
(though I realize that this might not be the case for everyone) and if
downgrading is the same then I'd much rather do that then get help to uninstall
and then re-install Windows 11 because this seems far less risky and
nerve-wracking. Plus I didn't have this issue when using Windows 10 and Jaws
2022 and I know that Windows 10 will be supported for awhile longer. Really hope
someone can help me just as you have all tried to do to fix this issue, I really
appreciate it, I just wish that someone's suggestion had worked and then it
wouldn't have had to come to this. Thanks
Madison

Well, after the long off topic thread about down grading Windows 11, I’ve decided to stop dealing with the lack of moderation on this list and unsubscribe.  The JFW list is far better moderated.

Take care,

Richard

“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.” – Jane Wagner

My Web site: https://www.turner42.com

Hello,

I don't know the answer to the question posed, but this threadjack has

kind of gone on long enough. Is anyone going to answer it?

- James Kizagurien-English

On 11/5/21, Marty Hutchings <mhutchings152730@...> wrote:

> Well, Go ahead and disabuse me of this idea then, because I think that

> it is making good use of ones resources or knowledge bases such as it

> were.  Like it has been said time and time again, there is always the

> Delete key.  I have suffered much more grievous etiquette abuses on

> these lists than cross listing.  How about subject hijacking for one.

> 

> On 11/5/2021 1:27 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 02:20 PM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:

>> 

>>     I think, for example, if somebody had replied explaining how this

>>     is considered to be bad list etiquette sending it privately is

>>     even a better approach.

>> 

>> -

>> Well, I disagree.  This is something that needs to be a part of the

>> public record.  At one time it needed to be said less than it seems to

>> need to be said lately.

>> 

>> And telling someone that something is bad netiquette, when it is

>> indeed bad netiquette, is educating them.  It's not an attack. It's

>> not telling them they're stupid.  It's informing them of something

>> they did not know.

>> 

>> We are not children here, and not everything needs to be couched in

>> the softest possible terms.  I've really grown tired of the attitude

>> that when someone says something in a direct and businesslike manner

>> that it's offensive.

>> 

>> Anyone thinking that multi-posting or cross-posting is a good idea

>> needs to be disabused of that notion.

>> --

>> 

>> Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043

>> 

>> */It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between

>> thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly

>> different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the

>> power to connect the seemingly unconnected./*

>> 

>>     ~ William Plomer

>> 

>> 

> 

> --

> Thanks,

> Lion Marty Hutchings

> BOLD Secretary, Program Director and VIP Liaison

> (262) 605-8981

> mhutchings152730@...

> www.wisconsinbold.com

> 

> 

>

> 

> 

> 

Then Brian, keep yourself to one group.

On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 02:23 PM, Rick Mladek wrote:

Remember, your delete key is, as you all often state, your option.

-
And one that should be needed infrequently.

People need to consider the fact that every message they elect to send to a mailing list goes out to hundreds of people (on average for a group like this, some are smaller).  Several of these groups have membership of over 1000.

It is poor form, plain and simple, to blanket multiple groups, particularly those with overlapping membership, with exactly the same question at the same time.  Trying to justify it is not doing anyone any favors.

The reason that it is considered poor form, and has been since the first day I stepped in to any online forum or list, is very clearly explained:  On Posting to More Than One Online Support Forum for the Same Issue – AKA Forum Cross Posting

 
It should not be done.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected.

    ~ William Plomer

Well, after the long off topic thread about down grading Windows 11, I've
decided to stop dealing with the lack of moderation on this list and
unsubscribe. The JFW list is far better moderated.

Take care,



Richard
"Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it."
- Jane Wagner

My Web site: https://www.turner42.com

Actualy this is a jaws group not a windows group , so it is in the wrong group for her particular question, and therefore should not have been posted in this group

Hi,

Is there really any need for the hostility here? She is simply trying

to get the answer as quickly as possible, and asking various groups,

whether there is overlap or not, is a good way of doing that. There

will be users here who are not on the other lists that were messaged,

I know this as this is the only message I've received on the subject.

I get it if the message was posted to lists for where it isn't

relevant (vi-phone, Manchester united supporters trust, a fantasy

basketball league) but as far as I am aware it wasn't.

Your delete key works to delete mail in most mail clients, and

deleting using most webmail services is hassle free, far easier than

ranting because someone has sent you 2 emails instead of one.

- James Kizagurien-English

On 11/5/21, Rick Mladek <hmladek@...> wrote:

> If it is on different lists, she has done not one thing wrong and I support

> her asking as many as needed to get the answers sought. Remember, your

> delete key is, as you all often state, your option. Is a cross is done and

> yuou seem to be on more than one list, again, hit your delete key. She has

> done nothing wrong and just because you get a second or a third identical

> message from all you hold membership within, you are the individual with

> many memberships, she has not done one thing in error within any one

> individual group list. Get over it and move on...

> 

> 

> 

> From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel

> Sent: Friday, November 5, 2021 2:20 PM

> To: main@jfw.groups.io

> Subject: Re: downgrading to Windows 10

> 

> 

> 

> And let's all keep in mind that not everybody is an old hand at using

> mailing lists. I happen to know that Madison is quite young so instead of

> criticizing let's tell her that cross-posting or posting the same question

> on multiple lists at the same time without giving one list a chance to

> provide answers is considered bad etiquette because many of use are on the

> Jaws and WinAccess lists she is in any case asking the same people and she

> may not realize this. We are all here to either educate or be educated and

> it's always a good idea to give somebody the benefit of the doubt at least

> until they have really proven they are not able or willing to get it. I

> think, for example, if somebody had replied explaining how this is

> considered to be bad list etiquette sending it privately is even a better

> approach.

> 

> 

> 

> From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel

> Sent: November 5, 2021 9:47 AM

> To: main@jfw.groups.io

> Subject: Re: downgrading to Windows 10

> 

> 

> 

> On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 12:41 PM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:

> 

> But although annoying, I don't consider it cross-posting if the messages

> were sent separately.

> 

> -

> Whether cross-posting, or multi-posting, the end result is the same.  And

> the article I referenced gives a better explanation of why this has been

> considered "poor form" for as long as I've been participating on technical

> support forums or emailing lists.

> 

> And the warning the gentleman who wrote that article gives is, I can assure

> you, quite true.  You can and will eventually be ignored once you have a

> reputation for multi-posting/cross-posting.

> --

> 

> Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043

> 

> It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between

> thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different,

> and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the

> seemingly unconnected.

> 

>     ~ William Plomer

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

> 

> 

> 

Hi,

Is there really any need for the hostility here? She is simply trying

to get the answer as quickly as possible, and asking various groups,

whether there is overlap or not, is a good way of doing that. There

will be users here who are not on the other lists that were messaged,

I know this as this is the only message I've received on the subject.

I get it if the message was posted to lists for where it isn't

relevant (vi-phone, Manchester united supporters trust, a fantasy

basketball league) but as far as I am aware it wasn't.

Your delete key works to delete mail in most mail clients, and

deleting using most webmail services is hassle free, far easier than

ranting because someone has sent you 2 emails instead of one.

- James Kizagurien-English

On 11/5/21, Rick Mladek <hmladek@...> wrote:

> If it is on different lists, she has done not one thing wrong and I support

> her asking as many as needed to get the answers sought. Remember, your

> delete key is, as you all often state, your option. Is a cross is done and

> yuou seem to be on more than one list, again, hit your delete key. She has

> done nothing wrong and just because you get a second or a third identical

> message from all you hold membership within, you are the individual with

> many memberships, she has not done one thing in error within any one

> individual group list. Get over it and move on...

> 

> 

> 

> From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel

> Sent: Friday, November 5, 2021 2:20 PM

> To: main@jfw.groups.io

> Subject: Re: downgrading to Windows 10

> 

> 

> 

> And let's all keep in mind that not everybody is an old hand at using

> mailing lists. I happen to know that Madison is quite young so instead of

> criticizing let's tell her that cross-posting or posting the same question

> on multiple lists at the same time without giving one list a chance to

> provide answers is considered bad etiquette because many of use are on the

> Jaws and WinAccess lists she is in any case asking the same people and she

> may not realize this. We are all here to either educate or be educated and

> it's always a good idea to give somebody the benefit of the doubt at least

> until they have really proven they are not able or willing to get it. I

> think, for example, if somebody had replied explaining how this is

> considered to be bad list etiquette sending it privately is even a better

> approach.

> 

> 

> 

> From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel

> Sent: November 5, 2021 9:47 AM

> To: main@jfw.groups.io

> Subject: Re: downgrading to Windows 10

> 

> 

> 

> On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 12:41 PM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:

> 

> But although annoying, I don't consider it cross-posting if the messages

> were sent separately.

> 

> -

> Whether cross-posting, or multi-posting, the end result is the same.  And

> the article I referenced gives a better explanation of why this has been

> considered "poor form" for as long as I've been participating on technical

> support forums or emailing lists.

> 

> And the warning the gentleman who wrote that article gives is, I can assure

> you, quite true.  You can and will eventually be ignored once you have a

> reputation for multi-posting/cross-posting.

> --

> 

> Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043

> 

> It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between

> thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different,

> and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the

> seemingly unconnected.

> 

>     ~ William Plomer

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

> 

> 

> 

Well, Go ahead and disabuse me of this idea then, because I think that
it is making good use of ones resources or knowledge bases such as it
were.  Like it has been said time and time again, there is always the
Delete key.  I have suffered much more grievous etiquette abuses on
these lists than cross listing.  How about subject hijacking for one.

On 11/5/2021 1:27 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 02:20 PM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:

I think, for example, if somebody had replied explaining how this
is considered to be bad list etiquette sending it privately is
even a better approach.

-
Well, I disagree.  This is something that needs to be a part of the
public record.  At one time it needed to be said less than it seems to
need to be said lately.

And telling someone that something is bad netiquette, when it is
indeed bad netiquette, is educating them.  It's not an attack. It's
not telling them they're stupid.  It's informing them of something
they did not know.

We are not children here, and not everything needs to be couched in
the softest possible terms.  I've really grown tired of the attitude
that when someone says something in a direct and businesslike manner
that it's offensive.

Anyone thinking that multi-posting or cross-posting is a good idea
needs to be disabused of that notion.
--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043

*/It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between
thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly
different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the
power to connect the seemingly unconnected./*

    ~ William Plomer

--
Thanks,
Lion Marty Hutchings
BOLD Secretary, Program Director and VIP Liaison
(262) 605-8981
mhutchings152730@...
www.wisconsinbold.com

On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 02:40 PM, Rick Mladek wrote:

Then Brian, keep yourself to one group.

-
No, dear, because I am not the problem here.  But with this I'm out.

If you want to engage in what's considered rude, then, by all means, feel free.  Others will draw their own conclusions and take appropriate actions.

Ignorance is not bliss, and can be cured with exposure to accurate information.  Willful stupidity cannot.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected.

    ~ William Plomer