Date   

Re: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Dave...
 

Brandon,

"yummy voices"? What is that all about?

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonboy13@comcast.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 13:37
Subject: Re: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution


Hello,
I have NVDA and use it when Jaws can't read the page or when Jaws crashes.
Does anyone know what the NVDA support list's email address is? I have some
questions about setting up my NVDA with yummy voices.
Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 1:27 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Thank you for this post. It's what many of us were hoping to get from Karen:
a detailed description of the strengths and weaknesses of NVDA. Between your
comments and Gary's occasional references to using it when JAWS fails, I am
now tempted to add it to my system.

For clarification, I've added NVDA to the subject line. I hope it won't
incur the wrath of the purists.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:16 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen reader,
with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't work, or at
least I haven't figured out how to make it work. I'm not going to take the
apparent position of Karen, as I use both and couldn't really advise a
serious or business user to kick the shark habit. In fact, this
conversation stuck out at me and I don't know the history, but for what it's
worth, here are my experiences.

NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader. It's agile, lightweight and more
responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience. When it works,
it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time. Its command structure
is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes it easier to learn, and
indicates some of its limitations.

I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, rather
like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system and
application objects both as objects and with the text in each object. This
allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the html-like elements
in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't been able to get to in JFW,
then set focus there and interact with the controls smoothly. This mode
gives access in some situations where JFW can't find a hook to interact
with.

NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is no
video intercept to install. It's rather trivial to put it on a thumb drive
and have instant access to any computer you plug it into. This promise is
almost, but not quite realized by JFW. I can see this being a major feature
in a computing center environment.

Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to JFW.
There are some things missing. There is no skimming or summarizing feature.
There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read
automatically. There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft
Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW.
Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really get
access to the dialog in any useful way. Outlook works well enough, except
the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically and calendar access
is a lot more primitive.

I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move to
the next say-all element. This is a small thing, but makes pages like
Facebook less useful. I also miss JFW's ability to filter out repeated
content on successive web pages.

In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday use I
use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming with, I
would not recommend flying solo with it in a business environment. I
certainly can't do everything I need to do yet. I say yet, because it looks
like there is a growing body of plug-ins for NVDA (which function something
like JFW scripts) which are starting to add functionality that didn't exist
before. It may be that the user community will yet provide missing
functionality and make it an even more robust competitor. FS and GW Micro
should be careful as it is already capable of moving many users away from
the upgrades. I haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point. I fancy I will
eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and a
workable alternative have made this less urgent.

And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if you
don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you change
readers.

Christopher Bartlett



_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Re: What is a VPN?

Dave...
 

Tom,

Exactly. However I once had the soft token, but in my latest setup they just
simplified things and gave me a hard-coded 5-digit pin to use. Much easier
and perhaps almost as secure, since it's easy to memorize. Maybe your IT
group will consider that for you, as well.

As to using other network resources, VPN affects XP differently from Windows
7.

In XP I had to always disconnect VPN before I could use my local printer, or
any of my networked drives on my local network (these all outside the VPN).
However Windows 7 allows these to get through now and it's so much easier.

And I concur that JAWS is not affected in any way, as long as its installed
on the local computer. I don't know what would happen if JAWS were to be
installed on the network and required to use VPN to get at it. Anyone else
have an opinion on that?
turn off has a couple different

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bissett, Tom" <tom.bissett@bmo.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 13:43
Subject: RE: What is a VPN?


VPN: A virtual private network.
It a connectivity tool used by many organizations. I use that connection
when I work from home. I have no problems with it, I have all my
applications on my local machine and I have full access to my network
drives.

The one area that can be a problem is the logon method. We use RSA
Security. There is a hardware token [its like a little calculator looking]
version which is totally inaccessable. I use a "soft token" this is a
software version of the hardware token and is with some jaws scripting it is
usable.

Regards
Tom Bisset
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Claudia
Sent: April 18, 2012 4:26 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: What is a VPN?

Hi,

What is a VPN and will it affect my using Jaws, in any way?
Thanks.

Claudia


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Re: VPN?

epierce@...
 

re: client-server applications

Citrix is not a VPN, it is a way of creating a "remote" interface to a server application (such as a database), that typically runs on a LAN (local area network).

Typically, a VPN connection from a remote location would be used to support "secure" connections/logins to an application on a Citrix server inside an organization's firewall.

Citrix is a fairly ancient technology, but has its strengths (and many more weaknesses).

My guess is that the agency you are working for implemented its database applications a very long time ago on Citrix, and has not been able to find the money or will to redesign the application on better technology.

In its original form, it was the solution to the problem of providing access to high quality server resources (running expensive application services) from low-end client PCs.

You could think of it was an attempt to mimic a super expensive mainframe on a moderate priced local area network. Your "low-end" client PC mimics the function of the old mainframe "data entry terminals".

Cloud computing will supposedly make legacy technologies like Citrix even more obsolete than they aleardy are.

Sorry about your headache and confusion, this stuff is the ugly underbelly of IT. Let it settle in slowly. don't worry about understanding everything immediately.

---- Original message ----
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 16:00:10 -0500
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com (on behalf of Claudia <cdelreal1973@sbcglobal.net>)
Subject: Re: VPN?
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>

Okay,

Here are more questions then. I don't remember making mention of
Citrix, but we do actually use that. There is a state database on
Citrix that has all client information on it.
I work for a state vocational rehabilitation agency.

As it stands, I cannot use Citrix to get into this database because Jaws
is obviously installed on my, and a few other users' machines. From my
understanding, Citrix would need to be installed on that server
statewide, in order for me to be able to use it to access the client
database.

So, the IT solution is to come down and install physical copies of Jaws
and the database on my laptop, so that I will have instant access
essentially.
In other words, I'll be able to launch the client database from the
laptop, instead of having to log into it remotely.

So, are there many others using Citrix with Jaws, and if so, what
capacity do you use it in?

Claudia

PS. All of this is giving me a headache; I am becoming more confused,
by the minute.
...


Re: VPN?

Brent Harding
 

This type of issue is what probably caused me to not get hired time and time again in the first place. The states have a little more law behind having to do it than private industry.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:18 PM
Subject: RE: VPN?


OK.
If you have a true VPN, you won't need Citrix; however, even with a VPN there are some applications that won't work with a VPN. In those instances, you will need something like Citrix. We have that exact situation. Fortunately, the only applications that require Citrix are applications I never really use or care about.
You can use Citrix. JAWS does need to be loaded on your machine and on the server. It really isn't that hard to do, and John Carlson (in escalation at Freedom Scientific) is pretty good. You don't have to buy two copies of JAWS (by the way, Window-Eyes works exactly the same way).
So, you do not have to rely on some downloaded copy of this database. You can access it, and if the state has any IT personnel worthy of the name, they should be able to set up a Citrix server with JAWS.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Claudia
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: VPN?

Okay,

Here are more questions then. I don't remember making mention of
Citrix, but we do actually use that. There is a state database on
Citrix that has all client information on it.
I work for a state vocational rehabilitation agency.

As it stands, I cannot use Citrix to get into this database because Jaws
is obviously installed on my, and a few other users' machines. From my
understanding, Citrix would need to be installed on that server
statewide, in order for me to be able to use it to access the client
database.

So, the IT solution is to come down and install physical copies of Jaws
and the database on my laptop, so that I will have instant access
essentially.
In other words, I'll be able to launch the client database from the
laptop, instead of having to log into it remotely.

So, are there many others using Citrix with Jaws, and if so, what
capacity do you use it in?

Claudia

PS. All of this is giving me a headache; I am becoming more confused,
by the minute.




On 4/18/2012 3:41 PM, Marquette, Ed wrote:
Claudia:
If it is a true VPN, you should be just fine. I use one every single day, and JAWS is not affected in the slightest.
The problem is that sometimes the term is used loosely to refer to a variety of remote access solutions. Even if it is really a Citrix connection (not a real VPN), JAWS still works. It is just a little more challenging n that JAWS needs to be loaded on the Citrix server too, and you need to have the more expensive JAWS edition. I have it, but I don't remember what it is called.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Claudia
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 3:29 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: VPN?

Hi,

What is a VPN and will it affect my using Jaws, in any way?
My employer is going to give me access to one of these.

Thanks.

Claudia


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Re: VPN?

Brent Harding
 

This is one of the shortcomings, to access that machine's desktop remotely needs Jaws at the server. It might not be so bad if it is one machine, not sure if they even need to buy another one for it. I'd imagine that having the files locally means you end up not having the changes made on the system, and your co-workers don't have what you do until someone merges it in either, maybe.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Claudia" <cdelreal1973@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: VPN?


Okay,

Here are more questions then. I don't remember making mention of Citrix, but we do actually use that. There is a state database on Citrix that has all client information on it.
I work for a state vocational rehabilitation agency.

As it stands, I cannot use Citrix to get into this database because Jaws is obviously installed on my, and a few other users' machines. From my understanding, Citrix would need to be installed on that server statewide, in order for me to be able to use it to access the client database.

So, the IT solution is to come down and install physical copies of Jaws and the database on my laptop, so that I will have instant access essentially.
In other words, I'll be able to launch the client database from the laptop, instead of having to log into it remotely.

So, are there many others using Citrix with Jaws, and if so, what capacity do you use it in?

Claudia

PS. All of this is giving me a headache; I am becoming more confused, by the minute.




On 4/18/2012 3:41 PM, Marquette, Ed wrote:
Claudia:
If it is a true VPN, you should be just fine. I use one every single day, and JAWS is not affected in the slightest.
The problem is that sometimes the term is used loosely to refer to a variety of remote access solutions. Even if it is really a Citrix connection (not a real VPN), JAWS still works. It is just a little more challenging n that JAWS needs to be loaded on the Citrix server too, and you need to have the more expensive JAWS edition. I have it, but I don't remember what it is called.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Claudia
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 3:29 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: VPN?

Hi,

What is a VPN and will it affect my using Jaws, in any way?
My employer is going to give me access to one of these.

Thanks.

Claudia


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Re: VPN?

Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@...>
 

OK.
If you have a true VPN, you won't need Citrix; however, even with a VPN there are some applications that won't work with a VPN. In those instances, you will need something like Citrix. We have that exact situation. Fortunately, the only applications that require Citrix are applications I never really use or care about.
You can use Citrix. JAWS does need to be loaded on your machine and on the server. It really isn't that hard to do, and John Carlson (in escalation at Freedom Scientific) is pretty good. You don't have to buy two copies of JAWS (by the way, Window-Eyes works exactly the same way).
So, you do not have to rely on some downloaded copy of this database. You can access it, and if the state has any IT personnel worthy of the name, they should be able to set up a Citrix server with JAWS.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Claudia
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: VPN?

Okay,

Here are more questions then. I don't remember making mention of
Citrix, but we do actually use that. There is a state database on
Citrix that has all client information on it.
I work for a state vocational rehabilitation agency.

As it stands, I cannot use Citrix to get into this database because Jaws
is obviously installed on my, and a few other users' machines. From my
understanding, Citrix would need to be installed on that server
statewide, in order for me to be able to use it to access the client
database.

So, the IT solution is to come down and install physical copies of Jaws
and the database on my laptop, so that I will have instant access
essentially.
In other words, I'll be able to launch the client database from the
laptop, instead of having to log into it remotely.

So, are there many others using Citrix with Jaws, and if so, what
capacity do you use it in?

Claudia

PS. All of this is giving me a headache; I am becoming more confused,
by the minute.




On 4/18/2012 3:41 PM, Marquette, Ed wrote:
Claudia:
If it is a true VPN, you should be just fine. I use one every single day, and JAWS is not affected in the slightest.
The problem is that sometimes the term is used loosely to refer to a variety of remote access solutions. Even if it is really a Citrix connection (not a real VPN), JAWS still works. It is just a little more challenging n that JAWS needs to be loaded on the Citrix server too, and you need to have the more expensive JAWS edition. I have it, but I don't remember what it is called.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Claudia
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 3:29 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: VPN?

Hi,

What is a VPN and will it affect my using Jaws, in any way?
My employer is going to give me access to one of these.

Thanks.

Claudia


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Re: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Claudia
 

One more question.

Are the voices or voice for NVDA horrible like the one for Narrator?
Thanks.

Claudia

On 4/18/2012 3:27 PM, Adrian Spratt wrote:
Thank you for this post. It's what many of us were hoping to get from Karen:
a detailed description of the strengths and weaknesses of NVDA. Between your
comments and Gary's occasional references to using it when JAWS fails, I am
now tempted to add it to my system.

For clarification, I've added NVDA to the subject line. I hope it won't
incur the wrath of the purists.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:16 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen reader,
with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't work, or at
least I haven't figured out how to make it work. I'm not going to take the
apparent position of Karen, as I use both and couldn't really advise a
serious or business user to kick the shark habit. In fact, this
conversation stuck out at me and I don't know the history, but for what it's
worth, here are my experiences.

NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader. It's agile, lightweight and more
responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience. When it works,
it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time. Its command structure
is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes it easier to learn, and
indicates some of its limitations.

I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, rather
like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system and
application objects both as objects and with the text in each object. This
allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the html-like elements
in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't been able to get to in JFW,
then set focus there and interact with the controls smoothly. This mode
gives access in some situations where JFW can't find a hook to interact
with.

NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is no
video intercept to install. It's rather trivial to put it on a thumb drive
and have instant access to any computer you plug it into. This promise is
almost, but not quite realized by JFW. I can see this being a major feature
in a computing center environment.

Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to JFW.
There are some things missing. There is no skimming or summarizing feature.
There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read
automatically. There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft
Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW.
Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really get
access to the dialog in any useful way. Outlook works well enough, except
the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically and calendar access
is a lot more primitive.

I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move to
the next say-all element. This is a small thing, but makes pages like
Facebook less useful. I also miss JFW's ability to filter out repeated
content on successive web pages.

In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday use I
use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming with, I
would not recommend flying solo with it in a business environment. I
certainly can't do everything I need to do yet. I say yet, because it looks
like there is a growing body of plug-ins for NVDA (which function something
like JFW scripts) which are starting to add functionality that didn't exist
before. It may be that the user community will yet provide missing
functionality and make it an even more robust competitor. FS and GW Micro
should be careful as it is already capable of moving many users away from
the upgrades. I haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point. I fancy I will
eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and a
workable alternative have made this less urgent.

And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if you
don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you change
readers.

Christopher Bartlett



_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Re: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Claudia
 

Wow,

Thanks for the very well-summarized review of NVDA.
Where can I obtain it from?
I could see me using this in tandem with Jaws, on my personal computers, when needed.

Claudia

On 4/18/2012 3:27 PM, Adrian Spratt wrote:
Thank you for this post. It's what many of us were hoping to get from Karen:
a detailed description of the strengths and weaknesses of NVDA. Between your
comments and Gary's occasional references to using it when JAWS fails, I am
now tempted to add it to my system.

For clarification, I've added NVDA to the subject line. I hope it won't
incur the wrath of the purists.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:16 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen reader,
with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't work, or at
least I haven't figured out how to make it work. I'm not going to take the
apparent position of Karen, as I use both and couldn't really advise a
serious or business user to kick the shark habit. In fact, this
conversation stuck out at me and I don't know the history, but for what it's
worth, here are my experiences.

NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader. It's agile, lightweight and more
responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience. When it works,
it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time. Its command structure
is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes it easier to learn, and
indicates some of its limitations.

I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, rather
like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system and
application objects both as objects and with the text in each object. This
allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the html-like elements
in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't been able to get to in JFW,
then set focus there and interact with the controls smoothly. This mode
gives access in some situations where JFW can't find a hook to interact
with.

NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is no
video intercept to install. It's rather trivial to put it on a thumb drive
and have instant access to any computer you plug it into. This promise is
almost, but not quite realized by JFW. I can see this being a major feature
in a computing center environment.

Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to JFW.
There are some things missing. There is no skimming or summarizing feature.
There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read
automatically. There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft
Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW.
Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really get
access to the dialog in any useful way. Outlook works well enough, except
the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically and calendar access
is a lot more primitive.

I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move to
the next say-all element. This is a small thing, but makes pages like
Facebook less useful. I also miss JFW's ability to filter out repeated
content on successive web pages.

In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday use I
use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming with, I
would not recommend flying solo with it in a business environment. I
certainly can't do everything I need to do yet. I say yet, because it looks
like there is a growing body of plug-ins for NVDA (which function something
like JFW scripts) which are starting to add functionality that didn't exist
before. It may be that the user community will yet provide missing
functionality and make it an even more robust competitor. FS and GW Micro
should be careful as it is already capable of moving many users away from
the upgrades. I haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point. I fancy I will
eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and a
workable alternative have made this less urgent.

And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if you
don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you change
readers.

Christopher Bartlett



_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Re: What is a VPN?

Brent Harding
 

If you had an IPhone, maybe there's an app for the RSA part, but Paypal has the ability to use the VIP one which is from Verisign/Symantech, and it's perfect with IOS. There's all kinds of ways companies skin that one, but it doesn't have to be the access nightmare I thought it was when I first heard of such a thing.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bissett, Tom" <tom.bissett@bmo.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 3:43 PM
Subject: RE: What is a VPN?


VPN: A virtual private network.
It a connectivity tool used by many organizations. I use that connection when I work from home. I have no problems with it, I have all my applications on my local machine and I have full access to my network drives.

The one area that can be a problem is the logon method. We use RSA Security. There is a hardware token [its like a little calculator looking] version which is totally inaccessable. I use a "soft token" this is a software version of the hardware token and is with some jaws scripting it is usable.

Regards
Tom Bisset
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Claudia
Sent: April 18, 2012 4:26 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: What is a VPN?

Hi,

What is a VPN and will it affect my using Jaws, in any way?
Thanks.

Claudia


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Re: What is a VPN?

epierce@...
 

VPN typically provides an encrypted connection to an organization's authentication (login) system via a port in a firewall that is open to the public.

This is very useful for "remote users", such as people that work at home, or from branch offices, and so forth.

Without an encrypted connection, the network packets flowing to/from the firewall can be "sniffed" by hacking tools to reveal a user's login information, or other organizational data that exposes the organization to loss of sensitive data that is protected by law such as SSN, medical data, academic data, credit card or other financial data, etc.

If you work with information that is legally protected, you need to be very vigilant, and comply with your organization's security policies and best practices.

---- Original message ----
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 16:43:47 -0400
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com (on behalf of "Bissett, Tom" <tom.bissett@bmo.com>)
Subject: RE: What is a VPN?
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>

VPN: A virtual private network.
It a connectivity tool used by many organizations. I use that connection when I work from home. I have no problems with it, I have all my applications on my local machine and I have full access to my network drives.

The one area that can be a problem is the logon method. We use RSA Security. There is a hardware token [its like a little calculator looking] version which is totally inaccessable. I use a "soft token" this is a software version of the hardware token and is with some jaws scripting it is usable.
...


Re: What is a VPN?

Brent Harding
 

It's a virtual private network. It shouldn't really effect Jaws at all. Imagine it as a network line that connects you to work, but it uses a small software program, or sometimes the interface similar to dialup in Windows, to bring up and tear down. They help the company's security more than anything

----- Original Message -----
From: "Claudia" <cdelreal1973@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 3:26 PM
Subject: What is a VPN?


Hi,

What is a VPN and will it affect my using Jaws, in any way?
Thanks.

Claudia


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Re: VPN?

Claudia
 

Okay,

Here are more questions then. I don't remember making mention of Citrix, but we do actually use that. There is a state database on Citrix that has all client information on it.
I work for a state vocational rehabilitation agency.

As it stands, I cannot use Citrix to get into this database because Jaws is obviously installed on my, and a few other users' machines. From my understanding, Citrix would need to be installed on that server statewide, in order for me to be able to use it to access the client database.

So, the IT solution is to come down and install physical copies of Jaws and the database on my laptop, so that I will have instant access essentially.
In other words, I'll be able to launch the client database from the laptop, instead of having to log into it remotely.

So, are there many others using Citrix with Jaws, and if so, what capacity do you use it in?

Claudia

PS. All of this is giving me a headache; I am becoming more confused, by the minute.

On 4/18/2012 3:41 PM, Marquette, Ed wrote:
Claudia:
If it is a true VPN, you should be just fine. I use one every single day, and JAWS is not affected in the slightest.
The problem is that sometimes the term is used loosely to refer to a variety of remote access solutions. Even if it is really a Citrix connection (not a real VPN), JAWS still works. It is just a little more challenging n that JAWS needs to be loaded on the Citrix server too, and you need to have the more expensive JAWS edition. I have it, but I don't remember what it is called.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Claudia
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 3:29 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: VPN?

Hi,

What is a VPN and will it affect my using Jaws, in any way?
My employer is going to give me access to one of these.

Thanks.

Claudia


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Re: Enterprise software

epierce@...
 

As I'm sure your know, or can imagine, in some large organizations, there is so much inefficiency and dysfunctional culture that the IT support people closest to a visually impaired user may not have access (no pun intended) to the enterprise licensing and other relevant support information needed. Or they may simply be prohibited by the organization's policies and/or license terms from interacting with FS tech support.

There are far worse IT support horror stories than can be told in detail on a public list.

Please note that the original discussion was not about FS support, but rather about the difference between "real" accessibility in Enterprise Software packages and legal "compliance" by large corporations with deep pockets and large legal departments, and/or lobbying representation.

FS has adapted their business model to malformed market conditions, they didn't create those conditions, in any direct way.

FS has adapted their software implementation to an inadequate operating system architecture which they didn't create.

Some people might object, feeling that FS has "sold out" blind customers in order to stay in the game of legal compliance played by corporations and other organizations that are run in a cynical, dehumanizing, bizarro manner.

The reality, like it or not, is that FS is a business, not an advocacy group.

When the market for accessibility products is distorted in the manner that it has been, it is inevitable that some company will end up selling out and pandering to the lowest instincts of the majority interest groups buying the product.

This is a consequence of "legislating morality".

In other words, people are not perfect, society is not perfect, accessibility is not implemented or enforced perfectly, etc.

People can come to their own conclusions about whether or not society in general is better off with things like ADA compliance bureaucracy and the resulting market distortions, or not.

People can come to their own conclusions about whether or not the individuals that work in the compliance bureaucracy are really working for the best interests of disabled people, or to advance their own careers.

The reality is that people that fail to conform to the dark, evil forces that are prevalent in many large organizations are frequently targeted for mistreatment, made into scapegoats, and bullied.

Any worker that is subject to such conditions should be aware that they can reach out to labor activists or labor lawyers for support.

---- Original message ----
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 22:52:47 -0700
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com (on behalf of "Farfar, and Proud of It" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>)
Subject: Re: Enterprise software
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>

Have any of these so-called helpful people bothered to call Freedom
Scientific to get their help?
...


Re: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

David <davidwhitehead1957@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:37 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Hello,
I have NVDA and use it when Jaws can't read the page or when Jaws crashes.
Does anyone know what the NVDA support list's email address is? I have some
questions about setting up my NVDA with yummy voices.
Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 1:27 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Thank you for this post. It's what many of us were hoping to get from Karen:
a detailed description of the strengths and weaknesses of NVDA. Between your
comments and Gary's occasional references to using it when JAWS fails, I am
now tempted to add it to my system.

For clarification, I've added NVDA to the subject line. I hope it won't
incur the wrath of the purists.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:16 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen reader,
with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't work, or at
least I haven't figured out how to make it work. I'm not going to take the
apparent position of Karen, as I use both and couldn't really advise a
serious or business user to kick the shark habit. In fact, this
conversation stuck out at me and I don't know the history, but for what it's
worth, here are my experiences.

NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader. It's agile, lightweight and more
responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience. When it works,
it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time. Its command structure
is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes it easier to learn, and
indicates some of its limitations.

I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, rather
like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system and
application objects both as objects and with the text in each object. This
allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the html-like elements
in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't been able to get to in JFW,
then set focus there and interact with the controls smoothly. This mode
gives access in some situations where JFW can't find a hook to interact
with.

NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is no
video intercept to install. It's rather trivial to put it on a thumb drive
and have instant access to any computer you plug it into. This promise is
almost, but not quite realized by JFW. I can see this being a major feature
in a computing center environment.

Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to JFW.
There are some things missing. There is no skimming or summarizing feature.
There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read
automatically. There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft
Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW.
Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really get
access to the dialog in any useful way. Outlook works well enough, except
the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically and calendar access
is a lot more primitive.

I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move to
the next say-all element. This is a small thing, but makes pages like
Facebook less useful. I also miss JFW's ability to filter out repeated
content on successive web pages.

In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday use I
use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming with, I
would not recommend flying solo with it in a business environment. I
certainly can't do everything I need to do yet. I say yet, because it looks
like there is a growing body of plug-ins for NVDA (which function something
like JFW scripts) which are starting to add functionality that didn't exist
before. It may be that the user community will yet provide missing
functionality and make it an even more robust competitor. FS and GW Micro
should be careful as it is already capable of moving many users away from
the upgrades. I haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point. I fancy I will
eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and a
workable alternative have made this less urgent.

And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if you
don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you change
readers.

Christopher Bartlett



_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Re: What is a VPN?

Bissett, Tom <tom.bissett@...>
 

VPN: A virtual private network.
It a connectivity tool used by many organizations. I use that connection when I work from home. I have no problems with it, I have all my applications on my local machine and I have full access to my network drives.

The one area that can be a problem is the logon method. We use RSA Security. There is a hardware token [its like a little calculator looking] version which is totally inaccessable. I use a "soft token" this is a software version of the hardware token and is with some jaws scripting it is usable.

Regards
Tom Bisset

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Claudia
Sent: April 18, 2012 4:26 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: What is a VPN?

Hi,

What is a VPN and will it affect my using Jaws, in any way?
Thanks.

Claudia


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Re: VPN?

Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@...>
 

Claudia:
If it is a true VPN, you should be just fine. I use one every single day, and JAWS is not affected in the slightest.
The problem is that sometimes the term is used loosely to refer to a variety of remote access solutions. Even if it is really a Citrix connection (not a real VPN), JAWS still works. It is just a little more challenging n that JAWS needs to be loaded on the Citrix server too, and you need to have the more expensive JAWS edition. I have it, but I don't remember what it is called.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Claudia
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 3:29 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: VPN?

Hi,

What is a VPN and will it affect my using Jaws, in any way?
My employer is going to give me access to one of these.

Thanks.

Claudia


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.


Re: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

David <davidwhitehead1957@...>
 

Yummy voices?

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:37 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Hello,
I have NVDA and use it when Jaws can't read the page or when Jaws crashes.
Does anyone know what the NVDA support list's email address is? I have some
questions about setting up my NVDA with yummy voices.
Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 1:27 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Thank you for this post. It's what many of us were hoping to get from Karen:
a detailed description of the strengths and weaknesses of NVDA. Between your
comments and Gary's occasional references to using it when JAWS fails, I am
now tempted to add it to my system.

For clarification, I've added NVDA to the subject line. I hope it won't
incur the wrath of the purists.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:16 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen reader,
with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't work, or at
least I haven't figured out how to make it work. I'm not going to take the
apparent position of Karen, as I use both and couldn't really advise a
serious or business user to kick the shark habit. In fact, this
conversation stuck out at me and I don't know the history, but for what it's
worth, here are my experiences.

NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader. It's agile, lightweight and more
responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience. When it works,
it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time. Its command structure
is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes it easier to learn, and
indicates some of its limitations.

I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, rather
like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system and
application objects both as objects and with the text in each object. This
allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the html-like elements
in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't been able to get to in JFW,
then set focus there and interact with the controls smoothly. This mode
gives access in some situations where JFW can't find a hook to interact
with.

NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is no
video intercept to install. It's rather trivial to put it on a thumb drive
and have instant access to any computer you plug it into. This promise is
almost, but not quite realized by JFW. I can see this being a major feature
in a computing center environment.

Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to JFW.
There are some things missing. There is no skimming or summarizing feature.
There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read
automatically. There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft
Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW.
Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really get
access to the dialog in any useful way. Outlook works well enough, except
the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically and calendar access
is a lot more primitive.

I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move to
the next say-all element. This is a small thing, but makes pages like
Facebook less useful. I also miss JFW's ability to filter out repeated
content on successive web pages.

In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday use I
use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming with, I
would not recommend flying solo with it in a business environment. I
certainly can't do everything I need to do yet. I say yet, because it looks
like there is a growing body of plug-ins for NVDA (which function something
like JFW scripts) which are starting to add functionality that didn't exist
before. It may be that the user community will yet provide missing
functionality and make it an even more robust competitor. FS and GW Micro
should be careful as it is already capable of moving many users away from
the upgrades. I haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point. I fancy I will
eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and a
workable alternative have made this less urgent.

And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if you
don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you change
readers.

Christopher Bartlett



_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Re: how are .pdf files constructed to best work with JAWS?

Claudia
 

Hello,

I see this quite a bit too, both on the job and in personal use. Sometimes, the files even open up, and when I arrow down with Jaws, it is reading it to me but either word by word or letter by letter.

Claudia

On 4/18/2012 11:32 AM, rixmix2009@gmail.com wrote:
I have found on several occasions to open a .pdf file in Acrobat Reader to find that the document is comprised of say 3 or 4 colums. And the data has like the name in column 1, the address in column 2, and the phone in column 3.

But the thing is, that JAWS will read it all down column 1, and then to column 2, etc.
Meaning that the connections between the adjacent field is lost, or made quite difficult.

I do not know enough to tell folks, so I ask you.
How may we tell people to construct these type of files in such a way that this does not occur?

I suppose it may vary according to which software was used to create it.

But I thought perhaps there is some descriptive terms to even better describe what I just tried to tell you all.

Thanks.
Rik


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Re: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonboy13@...>
 

Hello,
I have NVDA and use it when Jaws can't read the page or when Jaws crashes. Does anyone know what the NVDA support list's email address is? I have some questions about setting up my NVDA with yummy voices.
Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs

-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 1:27 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Thank you for this post. It's what many of us were hoping to get from Karen:
a detailed description of the strengths and weaknesses of NVDA. Between your
comments and Gary's occasional references to using it when JAWS fails, I am
now tempted to add it to my system.

For clarification, I've added NVDA to the subject line. I hope it won't
incur the wrath of the purists.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:16 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen reader,
with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't work, or at
least I haven't figured out how to make it work. I'm not going to take the
apparent position of Karen, as I use both and couldn't really advise a
serious or business user to kick the shark habit. In fact, this
conversation stuck out at me and I don't know the history, but for what it's
worth, here are my experiences.

NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader. It's agile, lightweight and more
responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience. When it works,
it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time. Its command structure
is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes it easier to learn, and
indicates some of its limitations.

I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, rather
like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system and
application objects both as objects and with the text in each object. This
allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the html-like elements
in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't been able to get to in JFW,
then set focus there and interact with the controls smoothly. This mode
gives access in some situations where JFW can't find a hook to interact
with.

NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is no
video intercept to install. It's rather trivial to put it on a thumb drive
and have instant access to any computer you plug it into. This promise is
almost, but not quite realized by JFW. I can see this being a major feature
in a computing center environment.

Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to JFW.
There are some things missing. There is no skimming or summarizing feature.
There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read
automatically. There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft
Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW.
Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really get
access to the dialog in any useful way. Outlook works well enough, except
the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically and calendar access
is a lot more primitive.

I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move to
the next say-all element. This is a small thing, but makes pages like
Facebook less useful. I also miss JFW's ability to filter out repeated
content on successive web pages.

In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday use I
use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming with, I
would not recommend flying solo with it in a business environment. I
certainly can't do everything I need to do yet. I say yet, because it looks
like there is a growing body of plug-ins for NVDA (which function something
like JFW scripts) which are starting to add functionality that didn't exist
before. It may be that the user community will yet provide missing
functionality and make it an even more robust competitor. FS and GW Micro
should be careful as it is already capable of moving many users away from
the upgrades. I haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point. I fancy I will
eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and a
workable alternative have made this less urgent.

And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if you
don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you change
readers.

Christopher Bartlett



_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Re: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
 

Nothing wrong with the right tool for the right job. Both the freebies
I know about can be run in portable mode, which could be great for
either location or occasional use.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:16 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen
reader, with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't
work, or at least I haven't figured out how to make it work. I'm not
going to take the apparent position of Karen, as I use both and couldn't
really advise a serious or business user to kick the shark habit. In
fact, this conversation stuck out at me and I don't know the history,
but for what it's worth, here are my experiences.

NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader. It's agile, lightweight and
more responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience. When it
works, it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time. Its
command structure is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes it
easier to learn, and indicates some of its limitations.

I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, rather
like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system and
application objects both as objects and with the text in each object.
This allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the html-like
elements in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't been able to
get to in JFW, then set focus there and interact with the controls
smoothly. This mode gives access in some situations where JFW can't
find a hook to interact with.

NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is no
video intercept to install. It's rather trivial to put it on a thumb
drive and have instant access to any computer you plug it into. This
promise is almost, but not quite realized by JFW. I can see this being
a major feature in a computing center environment.

Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to
JFW.
There are some things missing. There is no skimming or summarizing
feature.
There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read
automatically. There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft
Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW.
Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really
get access to the dialog in any useful way. Outlook works well enough,
except the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically and
calendar access is a lot more primitive.

I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move
to the next say-all element. This is a small thing, but makes pages
like Facebook less useful. I also miss JFW's ability to filter out
repeated content on successive web pages.

In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday
use I use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming
with, I would not recommend flying solo with it in a business
environment. I certainly can't do everything I need to do yet. I say
yet, because it looks like there is a growing body of plug-ins for NVDA
(which function something like JFW scripts) which are starting to add
functionality that didn't exist before. It may be that the user
community will yet provide missing functionality and make it an even
more robust competitor. FS and GW Micro should be careful as it is
already capable of moving many users away from the upgrades. I haven't
bought my 13 upgrade at this point. I fancy I will eventually, but for
now a combination of financial circumstances and a workable alternative
have made this less urgent.

And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if
you don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you change
readers.

Christopher Bartlett



_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com