main@jfw.groups.io

Skype help needed!

Chris Chaffin <cchaffin@...>

#9331

I might have accidentally pressed something when I was in Skype, but JAWS keeps on saying "updating Skype command key", so if I turn my Skype on now, JAWS starts saying this
and I have no idea how to stop it!

I did try reinstalling the Jaws scripts just in case it was a corrupted file, but no change.

Any idea? Your help is very much appreciated, thank you very much in advance!

Running current version of skype with the scripts with Jaws 13.

Chris

Why flash content on SpeakingOfRadio.com works on one computer but not another?

Matthew Bullis <matthewbullis@...>

#9330

Hello, so can anyone figure out why the web site
www.SpeakingOfRadio.com
will let me play the flash content at work, but not here at home? I went here:
http://www.speakingofradio.com/interviews/adams-mason-actor/
at work, and below the description of the interview, and before the part about Grand Central Station, the work computer had a link that I could click on that would pull up a new browser window with a button inside there that would play the interview. I get home and can't duplicate the same thing. On Jaws 13 using Windows 7 and Internet Explorer, it goes right from the interview description to the Grand Central Station bit, without showing the link that pulls up the new browser window. I can't think of what setting in Jaws or even Internet Explorer would have this different effect, since both the work and home computers are now running the same software..
Thanks a lot.
Matthew

text expansion programs

Jean Menzies <jemenzies@...>

#9329

Does anyone know of a professional text expansion program that works with Jaws?  Other than Autocorrect in Word I mean.  I've tried a few, but so far I haven't found one that works with Jaws.  Two that come to mind are Instant Text and Shorthand.  I haven't tried those two, but I have tried one called IntelliComplete or something like that, and it had Jaws conflicts. 

Jean

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Re: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Kimsan <kimsansong@...>

#9328

And, http://www.blindaccesstraining.com/main_files/training_courses.php
 Is a sign up page for individuals who are interested with learning NVDA in
real time, instead of 
Reading through manuals and sorting through mailing lists.
Take care.
Kimsansong@aol.com

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 1:28 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Thank you for this post. It's what many of us were hoping to get from Karen:
a detailed description of the strengths and weaknesses of NVDA. Between your
comments and Gary's occasional references to using it when JAWS fails, I am
now tempted to add it to my system.

For clarification, I've added NVDA to the subject line. I hope it won't
incur the wrath of the purists.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:16 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen reader,
with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't work, or at
least I haven't figured out how to make it work.  I'm not going to take the
apparent position of Karen, as I use both and couldn't really advise a
serious or business user to kick the shark habit.  In fact, this
conversation stuck out at me and I don't know the history, but for what it's
worth, here are my experiences.

NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader.  It's agile, lightweight and more
responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience.  When it works,
it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time.  Its command structure
is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes it easier to learn, and
indicates some of its limitations.

I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, rather
like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system and
application objects both as objects and with the text in each object.  This
allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the html-like elements
in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't been able to get to in JFW,
then set focus there and interact with the controls smoothly.  This mode
gives access in some situations where JFW can't find a hook to interact
with.

NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is no
video intercept to install.  It's rather trivial to put it on a thumb drive
and have instant access to any computer you plug it into.  This promise is
almost, but not quite realized by JFW.  I can see this being a major feature
in a computing center environment.

Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to JFW.
There are some things missing.  There is no skimming or summarizing feature.
There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read
automatically.  There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft
Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW.
Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really get
access to the dialog in any useful way.  Outlook works well enough, except
the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically and calendar access
is a lot more primitive.

I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move to
the next say-all element.  This is a small thing, but makes pages like
Facebook less useful.  I also miss JFW's ability to filter out repeated
content on successive web pages.

In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday use I
use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming with, I
would not recommend flying solo with it in a business environment.  I
certainly can't do everything I need to do yet.  I say yet, because it looks
like there is a growing body of plug-ins for NVDA (which function something
like JFW scripts) which are starting to add functionality that didn't exist
before.  It may be that the user community will yet provide missing
functionality and make it an even more robust competitor.  FS and GW Micro
should be careful as it is already capable of moving many users away from
the upgrades.  I haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point.  I fancy I will
eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and a
workable alternative have made this less urgent.

And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if you
don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you change
readers.

	Christopher Bartlett

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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Re: Jaws 13 and Windows XP Pro?

Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)

#9327

The "automatically start JAWS" option is available to any user under XP,
and can be changed with or without administrative of power user status.
This is the only startup option available under XP, on or off a network,
meaning that the menu present under Vista and 7 is not available under
XP.  Early editions of JAWS did not give this option under professional
OS's, such as NT, and I can't now remember when it was made available.

Ted

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of
guy.castonguay@parl.gc.ca
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 8:36 AM
To: jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Subject: Re: Jaws 13 and Windows XP Pro?

Dave,

In a large enterprise especially if governmental, they add your profile
to the network with User permissions only. This allows you to read
e-mail, surf the web or produce and edit documents. It does not allow
you to install software and in our case, Download music or podcast
content. They do that to save on hard disk space and on man power for
reinstalls due to viruses or badly produced third party software.  Those
restrictions are why any adaptive technology or piece of software runs
into problems while installing. 
	I'm relying on memory as to the "Run jaws at start-up" option.
If memory serves me well, the option is present when you are not logged
on as  administrator on your xp machine.

Regards  /  Mes respects

Guy Castonguay

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

Re: Jaws 13 and Windows XP Pro?

Guy Castonguay

#9325

Dave,

In a large enterprise especially if governmental, they add your profile to the network with User permissions only. This allows you to read e-mail, surf the web or produce and edit documents. It does not allow you to install software and in our case, Download music or podcast content. They do that to save on hard disk space and on man power for reinstalls due to viruses or badly produced third party software.  Those restrictions are why any adaptive technology or piece of software runs into problems while installing. 
	I'm relying on memory as to the "Run jaws at start-up" option. If memory serves me well, the option is present when you are not logged on as  administrator on your xp machine.

Regards  /  Mes respects

Guy Castonguay

Re: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)

#9324

The installed voice is pretty bad, but it'll take any SAPI5 voice.
Incidentally, Narrator is what it is, but the default voice in 7 is a
vast improvement over Sam.

Ted

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Claudia
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 5:10 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

One more question.

Are the voices or voice for NVDA horrible like the one for Narrator?
Thanks.

Claudia

On 4/18/2012 3:27 PM, Adrian Spratt wrote:
Thank you for this post. It's what many of us were hoping to get fromKaren:
a detailed description of the strengths and weaknesses of NVDA. 
Between your comments and Gary's occasional references to using it 
when JAWS fails, I am now tempted to add it to my system.

For clarification, I've added NVDA to the subject line. I hope it 
won't incur the wrath of the purists.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com 
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:16 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen 
reader, with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won'twork, or at least I haven't figured out how to make it work.  I'm not 
going to take the apparent position of Karen, as I use both and 
couldn't really advise a serious or business user to kick the shark 
habit.  In fact, this conversation stuck out at me and I don't know 
the history, but for what it's worth, here are my experiences.

NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader.  It's agile, lightweight 
and more responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience.  
When it works, it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time.  
Its command structure is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes 
it easier to learn, and indicates some of its limitations.

I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, 
rather like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with systemand application objects both as objects and with the text in each 
object.  This allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the 
html-like elements in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't 
been able to get to in JFW, then set focus there and interact with thecontrols smoothly.  This mode gives access in some situations where 
JFW can't find a hook to interact with.

NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is 
no video intercept to install.  It's rather trivial to put it on a 
thumb drive and have instant access to any computer you plug it into.This promise is almost, but not quite realized by JFW.  I can see thisbeing a major feature in a computing center environment.

Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used toJFW.
There are some things missing.  There is no skimming or summarizingfeature.
There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read 
automatically.  There is to my knowledge almost no access to MicrosoftAccess, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW.
Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't reallyget access to the dialog in any useful way.  Outlook works well 
enough, except the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically 
and calendar access is a lot more primitive.

I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to moveto the next say-all element.  This is a small thing, but makes pages 
like Facebook less useful.  I also miss JFW's ability to filter out 
repeated content on successive web pages.

In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday 
use I use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programmingwith, I would not recommend flying solo with it in a business 
environment.  I certainly can't do everything I need to do yet.  I sayyet, because it looks like there is a growing body of plug-ins for 
NVDA (which function something like JFW scripts) which are starting toadd functionality that didn't exist before.  It may be that the user 
community will yet provide missing functionality and make it an even 
more robust competitor.  FS and GW Micro should be careful as it is 
already capable of moving many users away from the upgrades.  I 
haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point.  I fancy I will 
eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and aworkable alternative have made this less urgent.

And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if 
you don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you 
change readers.

	Christopher Bartlett

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

Re: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Jean Menzies <jemenzies@...>

#9323

Gary, and Chris

First, Chris, thanks for a great comparison of NVDA and JAWS. I, too, use 
NVDA as needed, especially to get out of jams where Jaws crashes or 
something.

Gary, you explained my frustration with NVDA to a T.  I've read through the 
NVDA manual several times now, and I get totally confused with object 
navigation, and about three other kinds of navigation.  I don't understand 
what they are referring to, and each has its own set of navigation keys it 
seems.  If they could rewrite their manual into human terms, it would go a 
long way.  E.g., how do you read protected areas of the screen as we do with 
the Jaws cursor.  They tend to use technical language that just doesn't 
stick with me.  Makes me feel pretty dumb when I read the manual, so my use 
of NVDA stays at a rather rudimentary level.  But it is a good adjunct to 
Jaws in certain situations, and I can at least unload one and load the other 
if I think I might get more info on something.

Jean

Show quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@bellsouth.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Chris,
That's a very good description of how access with NVDA compares currently
with access with JAWS.  I'm afraid that one of the things you love about
NVDA though is going to be a problem for someone who is trying to transition
from JAWS and other screen readers.  Except for computer programmers, most
people don't think about the computer screen as a collection of objects with
windows and controls structured as parents and children.  Navigation can be
quite a challenge until a new user can understand these concepts.

Gary King
w4wkz@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Bartlett" <themusicalbrewer@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 3:16 PM
Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen reader,
with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't work, or at
least I haven't figured out how to make it work.  I'm not going to take
the
apparent position of Karen, as I use both and couldn't really advise a
serious or business user to kick the shark habit.  In fact, this
conversation stuck out at me and I don't know the history, but for what
it's
worth, here are my experiences.

NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader.  It's agile, lightweight and
more
responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience.  When it works,
it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time.  Its command
structure
is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes it easier to learn, and
indicates some of its limitations.

I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, rather
like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system and
application objects both as objects and with the text in each object.
This
allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the html-like elements
in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't been able to get to in
JFW,
then set focus there and interact with the controls smoothly.  This mode
gives access in some situations where JFW can't find a hook to interact
with.

NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is no
video intercept to install.  It's rather trivial to put it on a thumb
drive
and have instant access to any computer you plug it into.  This promise is
almost, but not quite realized by JFW.  I can see this being a major
feature
in a computing center environment.

Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to JFW.
There are some things missing.  There is no skimming or summarizing
feature.
There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read
automatically.  There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft
Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW.
Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really get
access to the dialog in any useful way.  Outlook works well enough, except
the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically and calendar access
is a lot more primitive.

I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move to
the next say-all element.  This is a small thing, but makes pages like
Facebook less useful.  I also miss JFW's ability to filter out repeated
content on successive web pages.

In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday use
I
use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming with, I
would not recommend flying solo with it in a business environment.  I
certainly can't do everything I need to do yet.  I say yet, because it
looks
like there is a growing body of plug-ins for NVDA (which function
something
like JFW scripts) which are starting to add functionality that didn't
exist
before.  It may be that the user community will yet provide missing
functionality and make it an even more robust competitor.  FS and GW Micro
should be careful as it is already capable of moving many users away from
the upgrades.  I haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point.  I fancy I
will
eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and a
workable alternative have made this less urgent.

And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if you
don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you change
readers.

Christopher Bartlett

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

Thunderbird v11 with JAWS v13 HELP!!!

Adam Hodge <ahodge@...>

#9322

Hi there. I'm trying to help out a friend of mine who has JAWS 13 on a Windows 7 machine. I read that JAWS works well with Thunderbird, and it does seem to work somewhat, but it's a bit clunky. I don't know a lot about JAWS, but I do know a lot about Thunderbird, and computers in general. I'm wondering if anyone has any info about how best to make used of JAWS with Thunderbird. Maybe there's an older version of Thunderbird that is more friendly with JAWS. We don't have the option to change to a different version of JAWS. I've also read here and there about scripts... not sure what they are or how they work with JAWS. Is this a way to give JAWS extra capabilities when working with particular programs? I'm definitely a newby with JAWS, and want to help my friend as much as possible. Any help is much appreciated. Thanks!

Re: VPN?

Gary King

#9321

Ed,
From the problems Claudia is still having, it looks like the state's tech people haven't had much experience setting up JAWS in a networking environment.  I hope they are willing to seek help from FS or from someone who is more knowledgeable than they seem to be.

Gary King
w4wkz@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:18 PM
Subject: RE: VPN?

OK.
If you have a true VPN, you won't need Citrix; however, even with a VPN there are some applications that won't work with a VPN.  In those instances, you will need something like Citrix.  We have that exact situation.  Fortunately, the only applications that require Citrix are applications I never really use or care about.
You can use Citrix.  JAWS does need to be loaded on your machine and on the server.  It really isn't that hard to do, and John Carlson (in escalation at Freedom Scientific) is pretty good.  You don't have to buy two copies of JAWS (by the way, Window-Eyes works exactly the same way).
So, you do not have to rely on some downloaded copy of this database.  You can access it, and if the state has any IT personnel worthy of the name, they should be able to set up a Citrix server with JAWS.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Claudia
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: VPN?

Okay,

Here are more questions then.  I don't remember making mention of
Citrix, but we do actually use that.  There is a state database on
Citrix that has all client information on it.
I work for a state vocational rehabilitation agency.

As it stands, I cannot use Citrix to get into this database because Jaws
is obviously installed on my, and a few other users' machines.  From my
understanding, Citrix would need to be installed on that server
statewide, in order for me to be able to use it to access the client
database.

So, the IT solution is to come down and install physical copies of Jaws
and the database on my laptop, so that I will have instant access
essentially.
In other words, I'll be able to launch the client database from the
laptop, instead of having to log into it remotely.

So, are there many others using Citrix with Jaws, and if so, what
capacity do you use it in?

Claudia

PS.  All of this is giving me a headache;  I am becoming more confused,
by the minute.

On 4/18/2012 3:41 PM, Marquette, Ed wrote:
Claudia:
If it is a true VPN, you should be just fine.  I use one every single day, and JAWS is not affected in the slightest.
The problem is that sometimes the term is used loosely to refer to a variety of remote access solutions.  Even if it is really a Citrix connection (not a real VPN), JAWS still works.  It is just a little more challenging n that JAWS needs to be loaded on the Citrix server too, and you need to have the more expensive JAWS edition.  I have it, but I don't remember what it is called.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Claudia
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 3:29 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: VPN?

Hi,

What is a VPN and will it affect my using Jaws, in any way?
My employer is going to give me access to one of these.

Thanks.

Claudia

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Re: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Gary King

#9320

Chris,
That's a very good description of how access with NVDA compares currently with access with JAWS.  I'm afraid that one of the things you love about NVDA though is going to be a problem for someone who is trying to transition from JAWS and other screen readers.  Except for computer programmers, most people don't think about the computer screen as a collection of objects with windows and controls structured as parents and children.  Navigation can be quite a challenge until a new user can understand these concepts.

Gary King
w4wkz@bellsouth.net

Show quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Bartlett" <themusicalbrewer@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 3:16 PM
Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen reader,
with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't work, or at
least I haven't figured out how to make it work.  I'm not going to take the
apparent position of Karen, as I use both and couldn't really advise a
serious or business user to kick the shark habit.  In fact, this
conversation stuck out at me and I don't know the history, but for what it's
worth, here are my experiences.

NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader.  It's agile, lightweight and more
responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience.  When it works,
it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time.  Its command structure
is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes it easier to learn, and
indicates some of its limitations.

I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, rather
like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system and
application objects both as objects and with the text in each object. This
allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the html-like elements
in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't been able to get to in JFW,
then set focus there and interact with the controls smoothly.  This mode
gives access in some situations where JFW can't find a hook to interact
with.

NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is no
video intercept to install.  It's rather trivial to put it on a thumb drive
and have instant access to any computer you plug it into.  This promise is
almost, but not quite realized by JFW.  I can see this being a major feature
in a computing center environment.

Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to JFW.
There are some things missing.  There is no skimming or summarizing feature.
There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read
automatically.  There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft
Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW.
Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really get
access to the dialog in any useful way.  Outlook works well enough, except
the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically and calendar access
is a lot more primitive.

I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move to
the next say-all element.  This is a small thing, but makes pages like
Facebook less useful.  I also miss JFW's ability to filter out repeated
content on successive web pages.

In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday use I
use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming with, I
would not recommend flying solo with it in a business environment.  I
certainly can't do everything I need to do yet.  I say yet, because it looks
like there is a growing body of plug-ins for NVDA (which function something
like JFW scripts) which are starting to add functionality that didn't exist
before.  It may be that the user community will yet provide missing
functionality and make it an even more robust competitor.  FS and GW Micro
should be careful as it is already capable of moving many users away from
the upgrades.  I haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point.  I fancy I will
eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and a
workable alternative have made this less urgent.

And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if you
don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you change
readers.

Christopher Bartlett

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

Re: [Bulk] VPN?

Dave...

#9318

Ed,

That's John Carson, by the way (No "L".

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell 
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718,  and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

Show quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 14:18
Subject: [Bulk] RE: VPN?

OK.
If you have a true VPN, you won't need Citrix; however, even with a VPN 
there are some applications that won't work with a VPN.  In those instances, 
you will need something like Citrix.  We have that exact situation. 
Fortunately, the only applications that require Citrix are applications I 
never really use or care about.
You can use Citrix.  JAWS does need to be loaded on your machine and on the 
server.  It really isn't that hard to do, and John Carlson (in escalation at 
Freedom Scientific) is pretty good.  You don't have to buy two copies of 
JAWS (by the way, Window-Eyes works exactly the same way).
So, you do not have to rely on some downloaded copy of this database.  You 
can access it, and if the state has any IT personnel worthy of the name, 
they should be able to set up a Citrix server with JAWS.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] 
On Behalf Of Claudia
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: VPN?

Okay,

Here are more questions then.  I don't remember making mention of
Citrix, but we do actually use that.  There is a state database on
Citrix that has all client information on it.
I work for a state vocational rehabilitation agency.

As it stands, I cannot use Citrix to get into this database because Jaws
is obviously installed on my, and a few other users' machines.  From my
understanding, Citrix would need to be installed on that server
statewide, in order for me to be able to use it to access the client
database.

So, the IT solution is to come down and install physical copies of Jaws
and the database on my laptop, so that I will have instant access
essentially.
In other words, I'll be able to launch the client database from the
laptop, instead of having to log into it remotely.

So, are there many others using Citrix with Jaws, and if so, what
capacity do you use it in?

Claudia

PS.  All of this is giving me a headache;  I am becoming more confused,
by the minute.

On 4/18/2012 3:41 PM, Marquette, Ed wrote:
Claudia:
If it is a true VPN, you should be just fine.  I use one every single day, 
and JAWS is not affected in the slightest.
The problem is that sometimes the term is used loosely to refer to a 
variety of remote access solutions.  Even if it is really a Citrix 
connection (not a real VPN), JAWS still works.  It is just a little more 
challenging n that JAWS needs to be loaded on the Citrix server too, and 
you need to have the more expensive JAWS edition.  I have it, but I don't 
remember what it is called.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] 
On Behalf Of Claudia
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 3:29 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: VPN?

Hi,

What is a VPN and will it affect my using Jaws, in any way?
My employer is going to give me access to one of these.

Thanks.

Claudia

_______________________________________________
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ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR 
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH 
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES 
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named 
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by 
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Thank you.

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Re: What is a VPN?

epierce@...

#9317

Sounds like madness (no pun intended).

dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net said:
... I don't know what would happen if JAWS were to be 
installed on the network and required to use VPN to get at it. Anyone else 
have an opinion on that?...

Re: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Dave...

#9316

Brandon,

"yummy voices"? What is that all about?

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell 
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718,  and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

Show quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonboy13@comcast.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 13:37
Subject: Re: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Hello,
I have NVDA and use it when Jaws can't read the page or when Jaws crashes.
Does anyone know what the NVDA support list's email address is? I have some
questions about setting up my NVDA with yummy voices.
Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Adrian Spratt
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 1:27 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Thank you for this post. It's what many of us were hoping to get from Karen:
a detailed description of the strengths and weaknesses of NVDA. Between your
comments and Gary's occasional references to using it when JAWS fails, I am
now tempted to add it to my system.

For clarification, I've added NVDA to the subject line. I hope it won't
incur the wrath of the purists.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:16 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen reader,
with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't work, or at
least I haven't figured out how to make it work.  I'm not going to take the
apparent position of Karen, as I use both and couldn't really advise a
serious or business user to kick the shark habit.  In fact, this
conversation stuck out at me and I don't know the history, but for what it's
worth, here are my experiences.

NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader.  It's agile, lightweight and more
responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience.  When it works,
it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time.  Its command structure
is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes it easier to learn, and
indicates some of its limitations.

I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, rather
like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system and
application objects both as objects and with the text in each object.  This
allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the html-like elements
in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't been able to get to in JFW,
then set focus there and interact with the controls smoothly.  This mode
gives access in some situations where JFW can't find a hook to interact
with.

NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is no
video intercept to install.  It's rather trivial to put it on a thumb drive
and have instant access to any computer you plug it into.  This promise is
almost, but not quite realized by JFW.  I can see this being a major feature
in a computing center environment.

Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to JFW.
There are some things missing.  There is no skimming or summarizing feature.
There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read
automatically.  There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft
Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW.
Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really get
access to the dialog in any useful way.  Outlook works well enough, except
the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically and calendar access
is a lot more primitive.

I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move to
the next say-all element.  This is a small thing, but makes pages like
Facebook less useful.  I also miss JFW's ability to filter out repeated
content on successive web pages.

In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday use I
use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming with, I
would not recommend flying solo with it in a business environment.  I
certainly can't do everything I need to do yet.  I say yet, because it looks
like there is a growing body of plug-ins for NVDA (which function something
like JFW scripts) which are starting to add functionality that didn't exist
before.  It may be that the user community will yet provide missing
functionality and make it an even more robust competitor.  FS and GW Micro
should be careful as it is already capable of moving many users away from
the upgrades.  I haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point.  I fancy I will
eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and a
workable alternative have made this less urgent.

And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if you
don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you change
readers.

Christopher Bartlett

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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Re: What is a VPN?

Dave...

#9315

Tom,

Exactly. However I once had the soft token, but in my latest setup they just 
simplified things and gave me a hard-coded 5-digit pin to use. Much easier 
and perhaps almost as secure, since it's easy to memorize. Maybe your IT 
group will consider that for you, as well.

As to using other network resources, VPN affects XP differently from Windows 
7.

In XP I had to always disconnect VPN before I could use my local printer, or 
any of my networked drives on my local network (these all outside the VPN). 
However Windows 7 allows these to get through now and it's so much easier.

And I concur that JAWS is not affected in any way, as long as its installed 
on the local computer. I don't know what would happen if JAWS were to be 
installed on the network and required to use VPN to get at it. Anyone else 
have an opinion on that?
turn off has a couple different

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell 
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718,  and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

Show quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bissett, Tom" <tom.bissett@bmo.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 13:43
Subject: RE: What is a VPN?

VPN: A virtual private network.
It a connectivity tool used by many organizations.  I use that connection 
when I work from home.  I have no problems with it,  I have all my 
applications on my local machine and I have full access to my network 
drives.

The one area that can be a problem is the logon method.  We use RSA 
Security.  There is a hardware token [its like a little calculator looking] 
version which is totally inaccessable.  I use a "soft token" this is a 
software version of the hardware token and is with some jaws scripting it is 
usable.

Regards
Tom Bisset
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] 
On Behalf Of Claudia
Sent: April 18, 2012 4:26 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: What is a VPN?

Hi,

What is a VPN and will it affect my using Jaws, in any way?
Thanks.

Claudia

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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Re: VPN?

epierce@...

#9319

re: client-server applications

Citrix is not a VPN, it is a way of creating a "remote" interface to a server application (such as a database), that typically runs on a LAN (local area network).

Typically, a VPN connection from a remote location would be used to support "secure" connections/logins to an application on a Citrix server inside an organization's firewall.

Citrix is a fairly ancient technology, but has its strengths (and many more weaknesses).

My guess is that the agency you are working for implemented its database applications a very long time ago on Citrix, and has not been able to find the money or will to redesign the application on better technology.

In its original form, it was the solution to the problem of providing access to high quality server resources (running expensive application services) from low-end client PCs.

You could think of it was an attempt to mimic a super expensive mainframe on a moderate priced local area network. Your "low-end" client PC mimics the function of the old mainframe "data entry terminals".

Cloud computing will supposedly make legacy technologies like Citrix even more obsolete than they aleardy are.

Sorry about your headache and confusion, this stuff is the ugly underbelly of IT. Let it settle in slowly. don't worry about understanding everything immediately.

Show quoted text

---- Original message ----
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 16:00:10 -0500
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com (on behalf of Claudia <cdelreal1973@sbcglobal.net>)
Subject: Re: VPN?  
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>

Okay,

Here are more questions then.  I don't remember making mention of 
Citrix, but we do actually use that.  There is a state database on 
Citrix that has all client information on it.
I work for a state vocational rehabilitation agency.

As it stands, I cannot use Citrix to get into this database because Jaws 
is obviously installed on my, and a few other users' machines.  From my 
understanding, Citrix would need to be installed on that server 
statewide, in order for me to be able to use it to access the client 
database.

So, the IT solution is to come down and install physical copies of Jaws 
and the database on my laptop, so that I will have instant access 
essentially.
In other words, I'll be able to launch the client database from the 
laptop, instead of having to log into it remotely.

So, are there many others using Citrix with Jaws, and if so, what 
capacity do you use it in?

Claudia

PS.  All of this is giving me a headache;  I am becoming more confused, 
by the minute....

Re: VPN?

Brent Harding

#9314

This type of issue is what probably caused me to not get hired time and time again in the first place. The states have a little more law behind having to do it than private industry.

Show quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:18 PM
Subject: RE: VPN?

OK.
If you have a true VPN, you won't need Citrix; however, even with a VPN there are some applications that won't work with a VPN.  In those instances, you will need something like Citrix.  We have that exact situation.  Fortunately, the only applications that require Citrix are applications I never really use or care about.
You can use Citrix.  JAWS does need to be loaded on your machine and on the server.  It really isn't that hard to do, and John Carlson (in escalation at Freedom Scientific) is pretty good.  You don't have to buy two copies of JAWS (by the way, Window-Eyes works exactly the same way).
So, you do not have to rely on some downloaded copy of this database.  You can access it, and if the state has any IT personnel worthy of the name, they should be able to set up a Citrix server with JAWS.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Claudia
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: VPN?

Okay,

Here are more questions then.  I don't remember making mention of
Citrix, but we do actually use that.  There is a state database on
Citrix that has all client information on it.
I work for a state vocational rehabilitation agency.

As it stands, I cannot use Citrix to get into this database because Jaws
is obviously installed on my, and a few other users' machines.  From my
understanding, Citrix would need to be installed on that server
statewide, in order for me to be able to use it to access the client
database.

So, the IT solution is to come down and install physical copies of Jaws
and the database on my laptop, so that I will have instant access
essentially.
In other words, I'll be able to launch the client database from the
laptop, instead of having to log into it remotely.

So, are there many others using Citrix with Jaws, and if so, what
capacity do you use it in?

Claudia

PS.  All of this is giving me a headache;  I am becoming more confused,
by the minute.

On 4/18/2012 3:41 PM, Marquette, Ed wrote:
Claudia:
If it is a true VPN, you should be just fine.  I use one every single day, and JAWS is not affected in the slightest.
The problem is that sometimes the term is used loosely to refer to a variety of remote access solutions.  Even if it is really a Citrix connection (not a real VPN), JAWS still works.  It is just a little more challenging n that JAWS needs to be loaded on the Citrix server too, and you need to have the more expensive JAWS edition.  I have it, but I don't remember what it is called.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Claudia
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 3:29 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: VPN?

Hi,

What is a VPN and will it affect my using Jaws, in any way?
My employer is going to give me access to one of these.

Thanks.

Claudia

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
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ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have received this
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Re: VPN?

Brent Harding

#9313

This is one of the shortcomings, to access that machine's desktop remotely needs Jaws at the server. It might not be so bad if it is one machine, not sure if they even need to buy another one for it. I'd imagine that having the files locally means you end up not having the changes made on the system, and your co-workers don't have what you do until someone merges it in either, maybe.

Show quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Claudia" <cdelreal1973@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: VPN?

Okay,

Here are more questions then.  I don't remember making mention of Citrix, but we do actually use that.  There is a state database on Citrix that has all client information on it.
I work for a state vocational rehabilitation agency.

As it stands, I cannot use Citrix to get into this database because Jaws is obviously installed on my, and a few other users' machines.  From my understanding, Citrix would need to be installed on that server statewide, in order for me to be able to use it to access the client database.

So, the IT solution is to come down and install physical copies of Jaws and the database on my laptop, so that I will have instant access essentially.
In other words, I'll be able to launch the client database from the laptop, instead of having to log into it remotely.

So, are there many others using Citrix with Jaws, and if so, what capacity do you use it in?

Claudia

PS.  All of this is giving me a headache;  I am becoming more confused, by the minute.

On 4/18/2012 3:41 PM, Marquette, Ed wrote:
Claudia:
If it is a true VPN, you should be just fine.  I use one every single day, and JAWS is not affected in the slightest.
The problem is that sometimes the term is used loosely to refer to a variety of remote access solutions.  Even if it is really a Citrix connection (not a real VPN), JAWS still works.  It is just a little more challenging n that JAWS needs to be loaded on the Citrix server too, and you need to have the more expensive JAWS edition.  I have it, but I don't remember what it is called.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Claudia
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 3:29 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: VPN?

Hi,

What is a VPN and will it affect my using Jaws, in any way?
My employer is going to give me access to one of these.

Thanks.

Claudia

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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Re: VPN?

Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@...>

#9312

OK.
If you have a true VPN, you won't need Citrix; however, even with a VPN there are some applications that won't work with a VPN.  In those instances, you will need something like Citrix.  We have that exact situation.  Fortunately, the only applications that require Citrix are applications I never really use or care about.
You can use Citrix.  JAWS does need to be loaded on your machine and on the server.  It really isn't that hard to do, and John Carlson (in escalation at Freedom Scientific) is pretty good.  You don't have to buy two copies of JAWS (by the way, Window-Eyes works exactly the same way).
So, you do not have to rely on some downloaded copy of this database.  You can access it, and if the state has any IT personnel worthy of the name, they should be able to set up a Citrix server with JAWS.

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Claudia
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: VPN?

Okay,

Here are more questions then.  I don't remember making mention of 
Citrix, but we do actually use that.  There is a state database on 
Citrix that has all client information on it.
I work for a state vocational rehabilitation agency.

As it stands, I cannot use Citrix to get into this database because Jaws 
is obviously installed on my, and a few other users' machines.  From my 
understanding, Citrix would need to be installed on that server 
statewide, in order for me to be able to use it to access the client 
database.

So, the IT solution is to come down and install physical copies of Jaws 
and the database on my laptop, so that I will have instant access 
essentially.
In other words, I'll be able to launch the client database from the 
laptop, instead of having to log into it remotely.

So, are there many others using Citrix with Jaws, and if so, what 
capacity do you use it in?

Claudia

PS.  All of this is giving me a headache;  I am becoming more confused, 
by the minute.

On 4/18/2012 3:41 PM, Marquette, Ed wrote:
Claudia:
If it is a true VPN, you should be just fine.  I use one every single day, and JAWS is not affected in the slightest.
The problem is that sometimes the term is used loosely to refer to a variety of remote access solutions.  Even if it is really a Citrix connection (not a real VPN), JAWS still works.  It is just a little more challenging n that JAWS needs to be loaded on the Citrix server too, and you need to have the more expensive JAWS edition.  I have it, but I don't remember what it is called.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Claudia
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 3:29 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: VPN?

Hi,

What is a VPN and will it affect my using Jaws, in any way?
My employer is going to give me access to one of these.

Thanks.

Claudia

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Re: NVDA; Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

Claudia

#9310

One more question.

Are the voices or voice for NVDA horrible like the one for Narrator?
Thanks.

Claudia

Show quoted text

On 4/18/2012 3:27 PM, Adrian Spratt wrote:
Thank you for this post. It's what many of us were hoping to get from Karen:
a detailed description of the strengths and weaknesses of NVDA. Between your
comments and Gary's occasional references to using it when JAWS fails, I am
now tempted to add it to my system.

For clarification, I've added NVDA to the subject line. I hope it won't
incur the wrath of the purists.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:16 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Karen -- Your Alternative Solution

I'm not Karen, but I am someone who uses NVDA as my primary screen reader,
with JFW held in reserve for those situations where NVDA won't work, or at
least I haven't figured out how to make it work.  I'm not going to take the
apparent position of Karen, as I use both and couldn't really advise a
serious or business user to kick the shark habit.  In fact, this
conversation stuck out at me and I don't know the history, but for what it's
worth, here are my experiences.

NVDA is a fabulous everyday screen reader.  It's agile, lightweight and more
responsive in most environments than JFW in my experience.  When it works,
it works quite nicely, and it works most of the time.  Its command structure
is much simpler than JFW or WE which both makes it easier to learn, and
indicates some of its limitations.

I love the object navigation mode that works, as I understand it, rather
like VoiceOver on the mac, in that you can interact with system and
application objects both as objects and with the text in each object.  This
allows me for instance to move focus very easily to the html-like elements
in the Carbonite user interface, which I haven't been able to get to in JFW,
then set focus there and interact with the controls smoothly.  This mode
gives access in some situations where JFW can't find a hook to interact
with.

NVDA's portable mode is even easier to use than JFW's since there is no
video intercept to install.  It's rather trivial to put it on a thumb drive
and have instant access to any computer you plug it into.  This promise is
almost, but not quite realized by JFW.  I can see this being a major feature
in a computing center environment.

Alas, not all is love and kisses in the NVDA world if you are used to JFW.
There are some things missing.  There is no skimming or summarizing feature.
There is no way to set up row and column headers in Excel to read
automatically.  There is to my knowledge almost no access to Microsoft
Access, and I believe PowerPoint access is much better in JFW.
Spell-checking is frustratingly hard in NVDA, in fact you don't really get
access to the dialog in any useful way.  Outlook works well enough, except
the suggestions for addresses don't read automatically and calendar access
is a lot more primitive.

I miss being able to advance during a say all by hitting a key to move to
the next say-all element.  This is a small thing, but makes pages like
Facebook less useful.  I also miss JFW's ability to filter out repeated
content on successive web pages.

In short, while JFW has its quirks and in fact as I said for everyday use I
use NVDA, which among other things I find easier for programming with, I
would not recommend flying solo with it in a business environment.  I
certainly can't do everything I need to do yet.  I say yet, because it looks
like there is a growing body of plug-ins for NVDA (which function something
like JFW scripts) which are starting to add functionality that didn't exist
before.  It may be that the user community will yet provide missing
functionality and make it an even more robust competitor.  FS and GW Micro
should be careful as it is already capable of moving many users away from
the upgrades.  I haven't bought my 13 upgrade at this point.  I fancy I will
eventually, but for now a combination of financial circumstances and a
workable alternative have made this less urgent.

And hey, memory is cheap and hard drive goes forever, so have both if you
don't mind the cognitive task switching that goes on when you change
readers.

	Christopher Bartlett



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