Date   

moderated Re: how do you underline a word?

Panagiotis Antonopoulos
 

Hi Jim/all,

Just highlight the word with control-right arrow and press control-u. This should do the trick.

                                                            Hope it helps,

                                                            Takis

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Rawls
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 10:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: how do you underline a word?

 

Hi all, I have forgotten how to do it. I am using jaws 2021 and windows ten. Jim


moderated Re: window or mac

Jim Weiss <jimweiss72@...>
 

Judy,
I use a Mac every day and have since 2012 (when I first went blind).  Typically I use keyboard shortcuts as a way of controlling my Mac but you can use the trackpad just as you would an iPhone.  For example with track pad commander turned on a single finger swipe to the left moves you to the left and likewise a single finger single tap selects the item.  Pretty much every finger gesture that you perform on an iPhone translates exactly on the Mac. 
Like I said I usually use the keyboard shortcuts and only use the track pad when the keyboard shortcut is not working as it should.  For example when trying to click a button and nothing happens I will fall back to the track pad, find and select the button and single finger double tap.  It doesn’t always work, but often it does, thus I don’t need to find sighted assistance.
A huge difference in MacOS is the use of the “Command” key, it is the key immediately to either side of the space bar.  A few examples are below.
To close an open window = CMD+W
To copy a selection = CMD+C
To paste from the clipboard = CMD+V
To underline a word in a text editor = CMD+U
To bold a word in a text editor = CMD+B
To create a new document in a text editor = CMD+N
To open an existing document = CMD+O
To print a document = CMD+P
To create a new folder in Finder (the Mac version of File Explorer) = CMD+Shift+N
There is still the concept of the menu bar in MacOS and you always use VO key+M to access it.
And to access the equivalent of the system tray you use VO key+MM.


If you are familiar with the rotor on the iPhone the same principle exists in MacOS.  Just like JAWS you assign either Control+Option (they are next to each other on the keyboard) or Caps Lock as your Voice Over (VO) key.  So if you are on a webpage and you want to list all of the headings you issue a VO key+U to invoke the rotor.  Like the iPhone you can decide what elements are in your rotor, such as Links, Visited Links, Headings, Form Controls, etc. and from the rotor you can quickly move about the page.  You can also use the H key to move by headings (and other keys) just like JAWS.
You can quickly change the verbosity, speaking rate, speaking pitch and even the voice without digging into the settings.
Sure there is a learning curve, but that is true of anything.  Here are the main reasons I jumped onto the Mac bandwagon when I went blind.
At the time my laptop was quite old and was due to be replaced so I knew that was an expense that could not be avoided.  There was no such thing as the JAWS Home Annual Subscription so I needed to buy JAWS and a SMA and I wanted something for word processing and spreadsheets and I was intimately familiar with Office.  When I added it all up I was looking at a bit over $2,000.  I then looked at the Mac and for $1,300 I got a new laptop, a screen reader and at the time iWords (Pages, Numbers and Keynote - the Mac equivalent to Office) was $20.  Now the software is free.  For me it was a no brainer at the time.  I knew that I needed to learn a screen reader anyhow and over the course of my life I had touched a few Macs from time to time.  Another huge factor for me was there was only one person to blame when something didn’t work right.  I am running Apple’s OS on Apple’s hardware and using Apple’s screen reader, if there is a problem the one thing that they can not do is blame a third party.  We have all been in the boat when Freedom Scientific blames Microsoft and then Microsoft turns around and puts the blame on a piece of hardware in your machine or the driver associated with that piece of hardware.  Apple can not do that, every piece of the equation is Apple.
Now the Mac is not perfect, but nothing is.  There are times that Safari just doesn’t cut it and I need to use another browser.  At the moment I have MS Edge also installed for a Chromium based browser solution.  Google Chrome and Brave, along with other browsers, work just fine on the Mac.  If you absolutely require MS Office do NOT go Mac.  Office 365 on the Mac is the most accessible version of Office for the Mac it can not touch Office on a Window based machine.  For that reason only I run Windows as a VM on my Mac.  I need to use Windows at work but have the luxury of being able to bring my own Mac to the office.  I spend 95% of my day on the Mac side of the world, and when I need to use Word or Excel I jump over to my Win 10 VM and do what I need to do.  For me this arrangement works perfectly.
If you want to talk more about the Mac please email me directly at jimweiss72@....
Regards

Jim Weiss



On Oct 9, 2021, at 9:05 PM, Judy <bunchkinbear@...> wrote:

Brian,  I understand your point, but this is my question. Lots of us have iPhones and use windows. Since I am so used to doing a lot on my iPhone, since it is the same OS as a Mac computer, how much more is there to learn? Yes, keystrokes are different but outside of that, why would it be so hard?  Judy & Libby

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 6:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: window or mac

 

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 05:37 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

If you already know one system; I'd stick with that system.

They are quite different, and unlearning one to switch to another is a lot of work.

-
Amen!  Amen!!  Amen!!!

And this is without regard to visual status.  It is always a non-trivial undertaking to learn a new operating system, be it Windows, Linux, or MacOS when you are already well versed in one of those.  And it's insanely frustrating, not that it cannot be done, because so much of what you do under any operating system becomes so familiar as to be almost like breathing.  When, suddenly, almost everything you have been doing for years on autopilot requires thought, and involves making mistakes as part of the process, it's just plain frustrating

If you have a good reason for switching, then go for it.  And there can be good reasons.  But if you don't already know what a good reason would be, then you don't have one.  Avoid needless pain.

At this point both Windows and MacOS are very accessible.  And the advent of a real screen reader in the form of Narrator, that's still being improved constantly, as a part of Windows takes away a favoring of MacOS because VoiceOver is built-in.  And even if Narrator weren't there, NVDA cannot be discounted as a full-functioning, free (though donations are strongly encouraged for those who can afford them) screen reader for Windows.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  
It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected.
    ~ William Plumber



moderated Re: Question about jaws reading

Justin Williams
 

So, even though I did uncheck smart read, I am still having the same problem with JAWS not reading when I read by word.  It may read some of them, but they it still won't say anything when I read word by word.

 

Thanks

 

Justin

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2021 4:49 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Question about jaws reading

 

Hi, Justin. It's in one of two places. First it's in the JAWS Startup Wizard, under Help.

 

Secondly, it is in Quick Settings (JAWS key plus V). When the search box opens, after you press JAWS key plus V, enter the word smart, and Smart Reading will come up in the search. If it is checked, try unchecking it, and see if that makes a difference in how you can navigate with the arrow keys. Make sure to TAB to the OK button to save the changes.

 

Bill White

 

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Justin Williams
Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2021 12:09 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Question about jaws reading

 

Where is smart word reading?

 

Justin

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Monday, October 4, 2021 7:12 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Question about jaws reading

 

Check to see if Smart Word reading is on. If it is, try turning it off.

 

Bill White

 

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Justin Williams
Sent: Monday, October 4, 2021 3:53 PM
To:
main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Question about jaws reading

 

I have Jaws 2021, and windows 10. Office 2016

 

I've noticed, that when I read by word in Microsoft word, that JAWS sometimes doesn't read.

 

The cursor will move, but it will not say anything.

When I read Character  by Character it works fine.

 

Why is that? 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Justin


moderated Re: window or mac

Mich Verrier
 

Hi Judy. As far as I can remember from using peoples max over the years it is different than using the iPhone because of the keystrokes and because there’s a lot more interaction need to do with the elements on the screen where as with windows Joyce generally takes care of all that and you don’t have to interact as much as you do on the mat and for that matter even on iOS devices there’s not as much interaction with different elements on the screen at least that’s been my experience Brian and others might have different experiences I’ve only tried the Mac on from different people that I’ve known over the years have let me use their MacBook some things and that’s been my experience. from Mich


On Oct 9, 2021, at 9:05 PM, Judy <bunchkinbear@...> wrote:



Brian,  I understand your point, but this is my question. Lots of us have iPhones and use windows. Since I am so used to doing a lot on my iPhone, since it is the same OS as a Mac computer, how much more is there to learn? Yes, keystrokes are different but outside of that, why would it be so hard?  Judy & Libby

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 6:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: window or mac

 

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 05:37 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

If you already know one system; I'd stick with that system.

They are quite different, and unlearning one to switch to another is a lot of work.

-
Amen!  Amen!!  Amen!!!

And this is without regard to visual status.  It is always a non-trivial undertaking to learn a new operating system, be it Windows, Linux, or MacOS when you are already well versed in one of those.  And it's insanely frustrating, not that it cannot be done, because so much of what you do under any operating system becomes so familiar as to be almost like breathing.  When, suddenly, almost everything you have been doing for years on autopilot requires thought, and involves making mistakes as part of the process, it's just plain frustrating

If you have a good reason for switching, then go for it.  And there can be good reasons.  But if you don't already know what a good reason would be, then you don't have one.  Avoid needless pain.

At this point both Windows and MacOS are very accessible.  And the advent of a real screen reader in the form of Narrator, that's still being improved constantly, as a part of Windows takes away a favoring of MacOS because VoiceOver is built-in.  And even if Narrator weren't there, NVDA cannot be discounted as a full-functioning, free (though donations are strongly encouraged for those who can afford them) screen reader for Windows.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected.

    ~ William Plomer


moderated Re: window or mac

Michael Hunsaker
 

The screen readers are very different for Mac OS relative to both JAWS and NVDA.  Even very different from iOS VoiceOver. 

Ryan



On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 15:19 meow meow <soberwater26q@...> wrote:
 
 
hi Rosie here...
I wonder which is better or best to get new computer window or mac?
thanks
 

--
Michael Ryan Hunsaker, M.Ed., Ph.D. (he/him)
NLS-LOC Certified UEB Transcriber
Teacher for Students with Visual Impairments
Davis School District
 CONTACT
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Voice/Text
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(text message or call and leave a voicemail, and I will return your call ASAP)
Email ryhunsaker@...
 Mailing Addresses
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moderated Re: how do I get rid of jaws saying block quote?

Mike B.
 

Hi Jim,
 
Try the following:
1. Open the Settings Center, Insert / Jaws Key + 6, on the number row and press, Control, Shift + D, to open default all applications.
 
2. Arrow down to, Web / HTML / PDF's, and right arrow to open.
 
3. Arrow down to, Reading, and right arrow to open.
 
4. Down arrow to,Configure web verboscity levels closed, and right arrow to open.
 
5. Arrow down to, Block quoatation, and uncheck this checkbox.  Now tab to, Okay, press the spacebar, tab to, Apply, press the spacebar, tab to, Okay,
and press enter to save and close.
 
 
 
Stay safe & take care.  Mike.
Just once, I want a username and password prompt to say:  "Close Enough!"
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Rawls
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2021 3:44 PM
Subject: how do I get rid of jaws saying block quote?

I am running jaws 2021 and windows ten. Ji006D


moderated Re: window or mac

 

Judy,

I will allow others who may be using MacOS and iOS to comment in detail, but the differences between any smartphone/tablet OS, and any desktop/laptop OS, is vast.

iOS skills do not, in my observation and experience, intuitively (or anything to it) transfer over to MacOS and vice versa.  The ecosystems are significantly different because the entire design idioms of a touch based OS and a mouse or keyboard based OS are just not the same.  [This was equally true for Windows and the Windows Phone, when the latter and Windows Mobile OS still existed.]

iOS and MacOS cannot be described, in any meaningful way, as "the same OS."
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected.

    ~ William Plomer


moderated Re: window or mac

Judy
 

Brian,  I understand your point, but this is my question. Lots of us have iPhones and use windows. Since I am so used to doing a lot on my iPhone, since it is the same OS as a Mac computer, how much more is there to learn? Yes, keystrokes are different but outside of that, why would it be so hard?  Judy & Libby

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 6:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: window or mac

 

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 05:37 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

If you already know one system; I'd stick with that system.

They are quite different, and unlearning one to switch to another is a lot of work.

-
Amen!  Amen!!  Amen!!!

And this is without regard to visual status.  It is always a non-trivial undertaking to learn a new operating system, be it Windows, Linux, or MacOS when you are already well versed in one of those.  And it's insanely frustrating, not that it cannot be done, because so much of what you do under any operating system becomes so familiar as to be almost like breathing.  When, suddenly, almost everything you have been doing for years on autopilot requires thought, and involves making mistakes as part of the process, it's just plain frustrating

If you have a good reason for switching, then go for it.  And there can be good reasons.  But if you don't already know what a good reason would be, then you don't have one.  Avoid needless pain.

At this point both Windows and MacOS are very accessible.  And the advent of a real screen reader in the form of Narrator, that's still being improved constantly, as a part of Windows takes away a favoring of MacOS because VoiceOver is built-in.  And even if Narrator weren't there, NVDA cannot be discounted as a full-functioning, free (though donations are strongly encouraged for those who can afford them) screen reader for Windows.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected.

    ~ William Plomer


moderated Re: how do I get rid of jaws saying block quote?

Cohn, Jonathan
 

You need to set your HTML verbosity to high or adjust your HTML for rusty you can find these in settings centers using insert six to get there.


On Oct 9, 2021, at 6:44 PM, Jim Rawls <jazzpiano@...> wrote:



I am running jaws 2021 and windows ten. Ji006D


moderated Re: how do I get rid of jaws saying block quote?

Ann Byrne
 

Settings center.verbosity (beginner)
configure verbosity. It's hiding in there.

At 05:44 PM 10/9/2021, you wrote:

I am running jaws 2021 and windows ten. Ji006D


moderated Re: window or mac

JM Casey
 

Windows updates dont’ occur that frequently and theyr’e usually painless.

From what you described, your needs are pretty minimal. Granted, I avoid all Apple products, but speaking as objectively as I can, you could definitely get away with a cheap PC and be fine for several years. People sell decent computers all the time; look around local markets. The laptop I paid $200 for runs Windows 10 just fine, and has plenty of ports for plugging in peripherals. It even has a CD/dvd drive/burner.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of meow meow
Sent: October 9, 2021 06:40 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: window or mac

 

well my concern is window always update  and get new computer and paying more for Jaws

 

and mac don't to paying voiceover or get new computer more often

right?

what I want to use computer just formemail and website that it or yeah and  files  

 thanks

Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2021 4:03 PM

Subject: Re: window or mac

 

It all depends on your needs, wants and finances. When I went blind I bought my first Mac, I had used Windows for nearly 20 years at that point in time. You will have to pry my Mac out of my dead cold hands, I currently on a Windows machine and I hate it.



On Oct 9, 2021, at 5:19 PM, meow meow <soberwater26q@...> wrote:



 

 

hi Rosie here...

I wonder which is better or best to get new computer window or mac?

thanks

 


moderated Re: window or mac

 

1. You don't need to use JAWS.  If the expense of JAWS is a concern to you, then consider both NVDA and Narrator.

2.  Apple hardware, all of it, whether computers or smartphones, is significantly more expensive than Windows hardware in the same class.

3.  Windows Updates have been, as a general rule, a non-issue.  And with the advent of Windows 11 feature updates are to occur only once per year rather than the current twice per year under Windows 10.  And, to be honest, I think that policy will end up being back ported to Windows 10.

4.  Hardware ages at about the same rate of speed no matter what the operating system.  You don't necessarily get longer life out of Apple computers than Windows computers.  The problem is, that even the cheapest Apple (which isn't cheap by a long shot) is much more expensive than the entry-level crap available in the PC world.  But people try to compare entry level PC hardware, which is generally awful, with entry level Macs, and the two are not even vaguely of the same class of hardware.  And when the hardware itself is comparable, the price of PCs in the same class is generally quite a bit lower.

5. Your self-described intended uses do not require a high-end PC or Mac.  Basic emailing, web browsing, streaming, and using office suite programs will work just fine on a mid-grade PC.  Buying a high-end PC for such use is a colossal waste of money.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected.

    ~ William Plomer


moderated how do I get rid of jaws saying block quote?

Jim Rawls
 

I am running jaws 2021 and windows ten. Ji006D


moderated Re: window or mac

meow meow
 

well my concern is window always update  and get new computer and paying more for Jaws
 
and mac don't to paying voiceover or get new computer more often
right?
what I want to use computer just formemail and website that it or yeah and  files  
 thanks

Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2021 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: window or mac

It all depends on your needs, wants and finances. When I went blind I bought my first Mac, I had used Windows for nearly 20 years at that point in time. You will have to pry my Mac out of my dead cold hands, I currently on a Windows machine and I hate it.


On Oct 9, 2021, at 5:19 PM, meow meow <soberwater26q@...> wrote:


 
 
hi Rosie here...
I wonder which is better or best to get new computer window or mac?
thanks
 


moderated Re: how do you underline a word?

 

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 04:46 PM, Adrian Spratt wrote:
One caveat that will be obvious to people with sight but not those without: if you underline, italicize or bold something and then continue typing right away, the newly typed text will also be underlined, etc. What I do to prevent this from happening is to add a comma after the text I’m about to underline. When I’ve completed the underlining, I add a space after the comma, then delete the comma, which won’t have been underlined. Of course, if you want a comma there anyway, all the better.
-
Just to add to this concept, anything after the text you intend to highlight will do.  I'll often type the next word, or even complete the sentence, then go back to the first word I want to have formatting applied to, complete my selection, and hit the key or keys to get the formatting I want.

CTRL + B    Bold
CTRL + I    Italic
CTRL + U   Underline

And a couple of less frequently used ones:

CTRL + =  Subscript drop
CTRL + Shift + Plus Sign  Superscript lift
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected.

    ~ William Plomer


moderated Re: window or mac

 

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 05:37 PM, Richard Turner wrote:
If you already know one system; I'd stick with that system.
They are quite different, and unlearning one to switch to another is a lot of work.
-
Amen!  Amen!!  Amen!!!

And this is without regard to visual status.  It is always a non-trivial undertaking to learn a new operating system, be it Windows, Linux, or MacOS when you are already well versed in one of those.  And it's insanely frustrating, not that it cannot be done, because so much of what you do under any operating system becomes so familiar as to be almost like breathing.  When, suddenly, almost everything you have been doing for years on autopilot requires thought, and involves making mistakes as part of the process, it's just plain frustrating

If you have a good reason for switching, then go for it.  And there can be good reasons.  But if you don't already know what a good reason would be, then you don't have one.  Avoid needless pain.

At this point both Windows and MacOS are very accessible.  And the advent of a real screen reader in the form of Narrator, that's still being improved constantly, as a part of Windows takes away a favoring of MacOS because VoiceOver is built-in.  And even if Narrator weren't there, NVDA cannot be discounted as a full-functioning, free (though donations are strongly encouraged for those who can afford them) screen reader for Windows.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

It is the function of creative men to perceive the relations between thoughts, or things, or forms of expression that may seem utterly different, and to be able to combine them into some new forms--the power to connect the seemingly unconnected.

    ~ William Plomer


moderated Re: window or mac

Jim Weiss <jimweiss72@...>
 

It all depends on your needs, wants and finances. When I went blind I bought my first Mac, I had used Windows for nearly 20 years at that point in time. You will have to pry my Mac out of my dead cold hands, I currently on a Windows machine and I hate it.


On Oct 9, 2021, at 5:19 PM, meow meow <soberwater26q@...> wrote:


 
 
hi Rosie here...
I wonder which is better or best to get new computer window or mac?
thanks
 


moderated Re: window or mac

Richard Turner <richardturner42@...>
 

If you already know one system; I'd stick with that system.
They are quite different, and unlearning one to switch to another is a lot of work.



Richard
"Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it." -- Jane Wagner 
  




website:  www.turner42.com

(Sent with my blue iPhone 13 Pro)

On Oct 9, 2021, at 2:21 PM, crayton Benner <craybay3198@...> wrote:

 Really it’s your choice.. It depends on what you want. It’s not a matter of what’s better, it’s what you want. 

On Oct 9, 2021, at 17:19, meow meow <soberwater26q@...> wrote:

 
 
hi Rosie here...
I wonder which is better or best to get new computer window or mac?
thanks
 


moderated Re: window or mac

crayton Benner <craybay3198@...>
 

Really it’s your choice.. It depends on what you want. It’s not a matter of what’s better, it’s what you want. 

On Oct 9, 2021, at 17:19, meow meow <soberwater26q@...> wrote:

 
 
hi Rosie here...
I wonder which is better or best to get new computer window or mac?
thanks
 


moderated window or mac

meow meow
 

 
 
hi Rosie here...
I wonder which is better or best to get new computer window or mac?
thanks
 

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