Date   

moderated Re: May Update for, JAWS2021, Build 2105.53, Download Link + What's New

Kenny Peyattt jr.
 

Hi,

I haven’t tried it yet. I will let you know what I find.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Gurd via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 2:41 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: May Update for, JAWS2021, Build 2105.53, Download Link + What's New

 

The email thread keyboard commands don’t work for me. I’m assuming it’s because I’ve customised all my email groups into threads via View Settings rather than the standard thread button. Is it working for othrs?

 

John

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Cristóbal
Sent: 19 May 2021 19:41
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: May Update for, JAWS2021, Build 2105.53, Download Link + What's New

 

Seems like a fairly significant update.

Hopefully the email thread thing gets more attention.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 10:48 AM
To: JList <main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: May Update for, JAWS2021, Build 2105.53, Download Link + What's New

 

Hi All,

 

Below is the direct download link for the May J2021 build, 2105.53, update + what's new in this release.

 

32 & 64 Bit Download Link:

 

 

What's New:

 

Enhancements in JAWS 2021.2105.53 (May 2021)

 

The following is a list of improvements made between the April 2021 release and the May 2021 update.

 

Easier Navigation Through Email Threads in Outlook

 

It is quite common, particularly in a work or school environment, for email messages to include several people, resulting in lengthy message threads as
participants reply and add to the conversation. When opening an email that contains a thread of messages, including replies or forwards, it can be time
consuming to read through the thread with JAWS or Fusion using the ARROW keys to locate particular responses as you need to move through all of the header
information for each message.

 

To make this easier, you can now use the N or SHIFT+N Navigation Quick Keys to quickly move to and place focus at the beginning of the next or previous
message in an open email thread, skipping over all of the header information. As you navigate with these commands, JAWS and Fusion reads who the message
is from, the date it was sent, and the first line. If you determine this is not the message in the thread you were looking for, continue using N or SHIFT+N
until you reach the message you want. While reading a particular message in the thread, pressing ALT+1 or ALT+2 now announces the sender or date  of the
message at your current location. To review sender and date info for the entire email, press CTRL+HOME to move back to the top before pressing ALT+1 or
ALT+2.

 

For users of the Focus braille display, you can set a NAV rocker to move through messages in an open email thread. While focused in an email, press the
NAV Mode button above the NAV rocker you want to set to cycle through the available navigation modes until "Message" is selected. If you are using an older
Focus display that includes Wiz Wheels, press down on the wheel to select the mode. If focus moves away from the message, the navigation mode defaults
back to Line.

 

Note: Currently, this feature is only available while reading an email and not when editing a message. Additionally, while currently limited to messages
containing replies and forwards from Outlook, we will continue to improve this feature over time to support emails from other sources like Gmail and iOS.

 

Voice Assistant Improvements

 

In the initial 2021 release, we introduced Voice Assistant, a new way to interact with JAWS in Windows 10. Voice Assistant offers a convenient option for
quickly performing various JAWS commands using natural speech instead of memorizing specific keystrokes. Since its introduction, we have received numerous
requests from customers wanting to be able to access more JAWS features by voice in order to increase productivity.

 

Some JAWS features you can now access by using voice commands include:

 

list of 16 items
• Selecting Text, especially blocks of text, has never been easier. Just locate the spot where you wish to begin selecting and say "Hey Sharky, Start Selection."
Then navigate to the location where selection should end and say "Hey Sharky, Finish Selection." You did it! At that point, all text between the two locations
will be highlighted. You can confirm using the SHIFT+INSERT+DOWN ARROW Command to verify you got it all. This works on Web Pages, in Documents, and even
in Emails.
• Working with the JAWS speech history without remembering any keystrokes is now even easier. Try any of the following:
list of 3 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, Show Speech History"
• "Hey Sharky, Copy Speech History to Clipboard"
• "Hey Sharky, Clear Speech History"
list end nesting level 1
• Working with Technical Support just got easier. Have you ever been asked to get the version information for your software or operating system? Try this
out:
list of 2 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, Virtualize Version Info"
• "Hey Sharky, Copy Version Info to Clipboard"
list end nesting level 1
• You can now ask JAWS to help virtualize a control or window, or even copy them directly to the Clipboard. For example, go to the JAWS About dialog box,
and try the following:
list of 4 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, Virtualize Window"
• "Hey Sharky, Copy Window"
• "Hey Sharky, Virtualize Control"
• "Hey Sharky, Copy Control"
list end nesting level 1
• When navigating Word documents and Outlook messages, you can use Voice Assistant to work with various elements like headings, tables, and graphics. Try
the following:
list of 3 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, List Headings"
• "Hey Sharky, Next Table"
• "Hey Sharky, Next Graphic"
list end nesting level 1
• When editing a Word document or Outlook message, you can use Voice Assistant to move to Spelling or Grammatical errors. For Example, try:
list of 2 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, Next Spelling Error"
• "Hey Sharky, Next Grammatical Error"
list end nesting level 1
• While reading a message in Outlook containing several replies or forwards, you can now say "Hey Sharky, Next Message" or "Previous Message." You will
skip the headings and get right to the various replies within that email.
• When focused on math content in Word that you wish to navigate, you can now say "Hey Sharky, Math Viewer." This opens the JAWS Math Viewer where you
can explore the current equation.
• To edit a math equation using the new Braille Math Editor, move to the equation and say "Hey Sharky, Math Editor."
• Toggle the Braille or Text Viewers on or off by saying "Hey Sharky, Braille Viewer" or "Text Viewer."
• Start or stop a JAWS Tandem session by saying "Hey Sharky, Tandem."
• Open the Select a Voice Profile dialog box by saying "Hey Sharky, Voice Profile."
• To access something in the System Tray, try saying "Hey Sharky, System Tray."
• Speak the most recent Windows notification by saying "Hey Sharky, Notification."
• If you have a laptop and want to know the charge level of its battery, just say "Hey Sharky, Battery."
• On a web page, open the Custom Label dialog box for labeling an element by saying "Hey Sharky, Custom Label."
list end

 

Braille Math Editor

 

JAWS and Fusion currently supports reading Math equations on web pages that are displayed using MathML, or math equations in Microsoft Word documents inserted
using the native Word math format. You can navigate the individual elements of an equation using the Math Viewer, accessed by pressing ENTER from a web
page or INSERT+SPACEBAR followed by EQUALS from a Word document when focused on the equation. If JAWS braille translation is set to Unified English Braille
or United States English Grade 1 or Grade 2 output, math expressions are also shown on a braille display using Nemeth Braille format.

 

The new Braille Math Editor in JAWS now enables braille users in Windows 10 to input their own equations, and in Office 365, edit existing equations in
Word documents. To open the Math Editor, press the layered command INSERT+SPACEBAR followed by SHIFT+EQUALS (plus sign). Focus braille display users can
also press DOTS 3-4-6-7 CHORD.

 

When the Math Editor opens, focus is placed into an edit field where you can immediately begin typing the equation in Nemeth braille from your braille
display's keyboard. As you type, a preview pane below the edit field visually displays the equation so a sighted teacher or parent can review it. Once
you are finished inputting the math equation, press ENTER or choose the Accept button to close the Math Editor. If you are in Word, the equation you entered
is automatically inserted into the document at your current location. The equation is also copied to the Clipboard so you can paste it in other applications.

 

Opening the Math Editor while focused on a math equation in a Word document displays the existing equation in Nemeth Braille, allowing you to edit or replace
it. After making any changes and pressing ENTER to close the editor, the current equation in the document is replaced by the new or modified equation.

 

Note: After inserting or modifying an equation in Word from the Math Editor, the blinking cursor (dots 7 and 8) on the braille display always remains at
the beginning of the math content, even as you move by character with the LEFT and RIGHT ARROW keys. If you need to insert another line of math content,
first press the END key to move to the end of the current math content and then press ENTER.

 

While the Math Editor is opened, you have the following additional options:

 

list of 3 items
• Press CTRL+N to start a new equation.
• Press CTRL+P to preview the current equation in the Math Viewer. When finished, press ESC to return to the Math Editor.
• Press ALT+E to open the edit menu where you can copy your Nemeth Braille to the Clipboard using a specific format. MathML is the default format when
copying, however, depending on the application where you intend to paste the equation, you can also choose to copy your Nemeth Braille to LaTeX or Braille
ASCII. After choosing a format to copy to, paste the equation into the specific application before pressing ENTER or selecting Accept to close the Math
Editor as this always copies as MathML and will erase the current clipboard contents.
list end

 

To learn more about Nemeth Braille, check out this
Nemeth Tutorial
 which teaches this braille code beginning with the very basics up through advanced mathematics.

 

Other Changes
list of 12 items
• Resolved an issue where JAWS was not announcing the download status of files in Edge Chromium.
• Addressed an issue where the text of a link in a GMail message was not being read if it spanned multiple lines.
• When selecting a link or button on a web page that opens a modal dialog such as a calendar, resolved an issue where JAWS was reading the entire contents
of the dialog all at once as soon as it gained focus.
• JAWS now indicates when you move in and out of text in Google Docs that is marked as a suggestion.
• Expanded the description in Commands Search for setting a temporary PlaceMarker (CTRL+WINDOWS+K) to describe how this keystroke is used as part of selecting
text.
• Added the Copy Speech History to Clipboard keystroke (INSERT+SPACEBAR, CTRL+H) to Commands Search.
• Updated the description in Commands Search for the Read Address Bar keystroke (INSERT+A) so it can be found by searching for either "URL" or "address."
• If the Navigation Quick Key Manager is launched from an Outlook message, the Navigation Quick Key N for moving through messages in a thread, is now listed
so you can reassign it if necessary. The Navigation Quick Key Manager is located in the Run JAWS Manager dialog box (INSERT+F2).
• Resolved an issue where Navigation Quick Keys in Outlook messages would sometimes unexpectedly stop working until you moved focus away then back to the
message.
• When selecting text in Outlook messages for copying and pasting, addressed an issue where selection was not always working as expected, causing the wrong
text to be selected. This occurred most often in messages containing lists.
• Updated the INSERT+H help for Excel to list all of the latest JAWS hot keys.
• Added a new dictionary rule for "FYI" so JAWS no longer says the more verbose "for your information" when encountering this acronym.
list end

 


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 04:21 PM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:
I think the security concerns are mainly for people who unconsously click on things.
-
Or are in the "click crazy"/"activation crazy" class.  And with those, and they do exist, it takes very little time to go from perfectly functioning computer to smoldering ruin.

They're not doing anything unconsciously, they're being cavalier.  [And that's not the same as having an unintended accident, which can happen.  It's choosing to click/activate on almost anything presented to you.]
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 04:17 PM, G. Gray wrote:
Yet through it all I had absolutely no problems and I used the web every day for lengthy periods of time.  With the MS security updates...you rarely or NEVER know what these are for.   I got no virus's or hacks, etc.
-
Congratulations!  And that's sincere, not snarky.   If everyone behaved as you do, and you have clearly developed great skills for interacting with cyberspace, the need for any sort of antivirus or security suite would disappear.

I haven't had a virus or hack in far longer than I can remember.  But I also know, doing what I do for a living, that I am not at all typical of the great lump at the middle of the bell curve of computer users.

It's perfectly safe to use all sorts of things that are, generally speaking, unsafe if you personally are quite vigilant by nature.  But no responsible IT professional, and I doubt you yourself, if you think about it, would characterize "quite vigilant" as being typical of most (yes, most, not just many) computer users.

Most of what gets designated as "being unsafe" is designated so with the entirely reasonable belief that if most users continue to behave as they've typically behaved in the past, more trouble than is necessary is almost certain to arise.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Glenn / Lenny
 


I think the security concerns are mainly for people who unconsously click on things.
 

----- Original Message -----
From: G. Gray
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Thought I'd weigh in on this one.  I used Windows XP from 2004 until 2018 when my XP machine failed.  Meanwhile Win. 7, 8, 8.1 and 10 passed me by.  Constantly I'd read that XP was dangerous to use on the web and even with e-mail!! 


Yet through it all I had absolutely no problems and I used the web every day for lengthy periods of time.  With the MS security updates...you rarely or NEVER know what these are for.   I got no virus's or hacks, etc.


These 7 words I live by..."If it ain't broke, don't fix it."


Listening for the Shout!,
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18


George
On 5/19/2021 10:13 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 11:08 PM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:
7 is safe and still valid.
-
This sentiment is not shared, particularly the first part, by anyone who's an IT professional.

I really don't care what you, or any given individual, choose to do in your own world.  That really is entirely your choice, as you have to live with it and its consequences.

It is never, ever "safe" to use an out-of-support version of Windows.   It's just the opposite of "safe."  You may never have any issue, and very often that's just the proverbial "dumb luck."
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide




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This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com



moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

G. Gray
 

Thought I'd weigh in on this one.  I used Windows XP from 2004 until 2018 when my XP machine failed.  Meanwhile Win. 7, 8, 8.1 and 10 passed me by.  Constantly I'd read that XP was dangerous to use on the web and even with e-mail!! 


Yet through it all I had absolutely no problems and I used the web every day for lengthy periods of time.  With the MS security updates...you rarely or NEVER know what these are for.   I got no virus's or hacks, etc.


These 7 words I live by..."If it ain't broke, don't fix it."


Listening for the Shout!,
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18


George
On 5/19/2021 10:13 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 11:08 PM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:
7 is safe and still valid.
-
This sentiment is not shared, particularly the first part, by anyone who's an IT professional.

I really don't care what you, or any given individual, choose to do in your own world.  That really is entirely your choice, as you have to live with it and its consequences.

It is never, ever "safe" to use an out-of-support version of Windows.   It's just the opposite of "safe."  You may never have any issue, and very often that's just the proverbial "dumb luck."
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide




Avast logo

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com



moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 03:37 PM, Barbara Sheinbein wrote:
I have not noticed any option to select
-
I think you can take out the "to select" part when reading Mr. Spratt's earlier comment.  My impression, based not only on what I've read here, but on Technibble, is that this is essentially "hard coded" into Outlook from 2016 forward.  You don't get selection options.  The only "option" you get is IE at the moment.  That will have to change.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Michael Mote
 

I have enjoyed reading all of these posts. I work in the Assistive
Technology business, and have been a user for over 25 years. There are
some who won't like what I have to say, but I think it's important.
those of us who rely on a screen reader to interact with a computer
have seen accessibility explode for us in the last quarter century. We
can do things that we could only dream about a few years ago. To say
that Microsoft does not care about the needs of their disabled users,
as one person did, is totally out of line. Just because they don't
address your favorite hot button issue doesn't mean that they don't
care. I am not disagreeing that Microsoft and other tech giants make
mistakes, in fact, they make lots of them. Overall though, I think the
commitment to accessibility has been really good and the good does
indeed outweigh the bad. IE going away has been in the works for a
very long time. I'm surprised it's taken this long. Had Edge worked
better for Microsoft before now, IE would have been gone before now.
It's my opinion, that we should embrace change, and enjoy the benefits
instead of complaining about not being able to use the same old same
old stuff that doesn't get updated with any new features like Internet
Explorer. It's time to move on. Something better is coming, and if you
decide to stay with Windows 7, you might miss out on something much
better and much easier. Give that some thought. Everyone has the
ability to do what they choose, and there is nothing wrong with it.
I'm glad we have choices in the market place. there was a time that we
didn't have that luxury.

On 5/20/21, Adrian Spratt <adrian@adrianspratt.com> wrote:
Barbara,

I’m glad you brought up this example. I use the same method for handling
lengthy email messages with dozens of links. You would think that this key
sequence, alt-h, a, v, would take you to a combo box listing major browsers.
However, the only option is IE.

I’m using Outlook 2016. I don’t know if the same limitation applies to
Outlook 2019 or the ever-updated Outlook 365.

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Barbara
Sheinbein
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 1:17 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June
15th 2022

Hi Everyone,

This IE change poses a question for me. I use other browsers than IE with
one exception. I am using Windows 10 and Office 365. I use Outlook and
from time to time I get email messages usually from a company/organization
that I have a problem with. I want to enter on a specific link and when I
do this, I am transferred to a web page not the topic I wanted. After
trying a second time to be sure I have entered where I do want and getting
the same results, I go to the next method. With the email open I pressed
alt-h, then a and finally v which opens up in IE and the email is presented
in HTML. I again find my link and enter on it and I am taken to the correct
page. I am assuming this is some accessibility software issue beyond my
knowledge. Smile. This long winded explanation leads me to the current
thread. I assume I will still be able to do this as needed, but if there is
a straightforward alternative, please let me know.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

Barbara



From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 9:18 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June
15th 2022

Hi,
At least two people pointed out on Win10 Forum that they need Internet
Explorer, and I advised them to look into IE mode in Microsoft Edge designed
for scenarios like accessing web applications that rely on IE and its
rendering engine for full functionality.
Cheers,
Joseph


From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
kylee@timeless.net.nz<mailto:kylee@timeless.net.nz>
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 7:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June
15th 2022

Um … that means that it will no longer be updated, causing increasing holes
in security.
Kylee

From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Loy
Sent: Thursday, 20 May 2021 2:13 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June
15th 2022

The blog said support would end, it did not say it would be removed.

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Vogel<mailto:britechguy@gmail.com>
To: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 8:41 PM
Subject: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th
2022

Hello All,

Even though this message is not related to JAWS, the impact of
this change is so important, and it is so likely to affect quite a few
members who still use IE routinely, the information needs to be shared. My
intention is information sharing only, as there's really nothing to discuss.
This is a done deal.

See the article on techcommunity.microsoft.com entitled, Internet Explorer
11 desktop app retirement
FAQ<https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-it-pro-blog/internet-explorer-11-desktop-app-retirement-faq/ba-p/2366549>.

Those in business settings where they are forced to still use IE for
specific sites also should pass this information along to "the powers that
be" so that they can be aware of the change that's coming.

You need to start making plans to transition away from IE now, if you have
not done so already.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are
not.

~ André Gide







moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Barbara Sheinbein
 

I am using Office 365 and I have not noticed any option to select which browser for this method of reading emails.

 

My default browser for Windows 10 is Chrome.

 

Barbara

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 2:03 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Barbara,

 

I’m glad you brought up this example. I use the same method for handling lengthy email messages with dozens of links. You would think that this key sequence, alt-h, a, v, would take you to a combo box listing major browsers. However, the only option is IE.

 

I’m using Outlook 2016. I don’t know if the same limitation applies to Outlook 2019 or the ever-updated Outlook 365.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Barbara Sheinbein
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 1:17 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Hi Everyone,

 

This IE change poses a question for me.  I use other browsers than IE with one exception.  I am using Windows 10 and Office 365.  I use Outlook and from time to time I get email messages usually from a company/organization that I have a problem with.  I want to enter on a specific link and when I do this, I am transferred to a web page not the topic I wanted.  After trying a second time to be sure I have entered where I do want and getting the same results, I go to the next method.  With the email open I pressed alt-h, then a and finally v which opens up in IE and the email is presented in HTML.  I again find my link and enter on it and I am taken to the correct page.  I am assuming this is some accessibility software issue beyond my knowledge.  Smile.  This long  winded explanation leads me to the current thread.  I assume I will still be able to do this as needed, but if there is a straightforward alternative, please let me know.

 

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

 

Barbara

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 9:18 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Hi,

At least two people pointed out on Win10 Forum that they need Internet Explorer, and I advised them to look into IE mode in Microsoft Edge designed for scenarios like accessing web applications that rely on IE and its rendering engine for full functionality.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of kylee@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 7:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Um … that means that it will no longer be updated, causing increasing holes in security.

Kylee

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Loy
Sent: Thursday, 20 May 2021 2:13 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

The blog said support would end, it did not say it would be removed.

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 8:41 PM

Subject: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Hello All,

          Even though this message is not related to JAWS, the impact of this change is so important, and it is so likely to affect quite a few members who still use IE routinely, the information needs to be shared.  My intention is information sharing only, as there's really nothing to discuss.  This is a done deal.

See the article on techcommunity.microsoft.com entitled, Internet Explorer 11 desktop app retirement FAQ.

Those in business settings where they are forced to still use IE for specific sites also should pass this information along to "the powers that be" so that they can be aware of the change that's coming.

You need to start making plans to transition away from IE now, if you have not done so already.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 01:50 PM, James English wrote:
Updates from internet explorer stopped in 2016, and internet explorer is available as a download from the Microsoft website, so it's clearly not as linked to the OS itself as you seem to be making out.
-
You're confusing separability and inseparability.  There were lawsuits way back when at the time Microsoft was literally trying to build their web browser (IE) in to the OS such that it could not be removed.  They lost, and it had to be designed to be separable from Windows without breaking Windows and allowing any other alternative or alternatives of the owner's choosing to be installed.

Edge (both original and new Chromium-based) are separable from Windows 10.  They can be removed.  But what's removed is the "unshared part" as an easy way of describing it.  There are, or were (and I think it remains are), large parts of Windows 10 itself that rely directly on the EdgeHTML rendering engine that was at the heart of original Edge.  But Edge original, being separable, can be removed as an end-user product while leaving the shared EdgeHTML component firmly in place and in use.  EdgeHTML is not a static thing, and it has dependencies on other components, and as those other components change, so must it, at least at times.  Maintenance does not stop.

IE worked in precisely the same way.  What we all think of as IE as users is separable from Windows 10, but some of the components it uses are not.  Unless something is an entirely self-contained executable that is in no way dependent on having access to things like DLLs (dynamic link libraries) that are not under its control, then it must be maintained, as needed, when those things not under its control change.

Regardless of how one prefers to phrase it, you can't just leave certain things in place and untouched.  You either have to commit to ongoing maintenance (patching, mostly, and for the kind of changes previously noted) at a minimum, or the thing must go.  And the last thing you really want is something being minimally patched, with little or no consideration of security issues, to continue to just sit there so that some tiny contingent could still use it.  You're opening up your ecosystem and the vast majority of your users to threats that would not otherwise exist.

The fact is that things die, and we must move on.  And sometimes that involves some very painful changes.  But, and it's important, anyone who is currently using something that has been out of any sort of maintenance for over 5 years has to realize that it could disappear at a moment's notice, at least on currently supported platforms.  It appears that what you are attempting to access will require a Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 machine to gain access until and unless the site itself were to disappear.  You made a choice, and the consequences of that choice really are predictable, whether you want to hear or accept that or not.

A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did?  Don't do that."

           ~ Douglas Adams (1952-2001)
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Adrian Spratt
 

Barbara,

 

I’m glad you brought up this example. I use the same method for handling lengthy email messages with dozens of links. You would think that this key sequence, alt-h, a, v, would take you to a combo box listing major browsers. However, the only option is IE.

 

I’m using Outlook 2016. I don’t know if the same limitation applies to Outlook 2019 or the ever-updated Outlook 365.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Barbara Sheinbein
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 1:17 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Hi Everyone,

 

This IE change poses a question for me.  I use other browsers than IE with one exception.  I am using Windows 10 and Office 365.  I use Outlook and from time to time I get email messages usually from a company/organization that I have a problem with.  I want to enter on a specific link and when I do this, I am transferred to a web page not the topic I wanted.  After trying a second time to be sure I have entered where I do want and getting the same results, I go to the next method.  With the email open I pressed alt-h, then a and finally v which opens up in IE and the email is presented in HTML.  I again find my link and enter on it and I am taken to the correct page.  I am assuming this is some accessibility software issue beyond my knowledge.  Smile.  This long  winded explanation leads me to the current thread.  I assume I will still be able to do this as needed, but if there is a straightforward alternative, please let me know.

 

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

 

Barbara

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 9:18 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Hi,

At least two people pointed out on Win10 Forum that they need Internet Explorer, and I advised them to look into IE mode in Microsoft Edge designed for scenarios like accessing web applications that rely on IE and its rendering engine for full functionality.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of kylee@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 7:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Um … that means that it will no longer be updated, causing increasing holes in security.

Kylee

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Loy
Sent: Thursday, 20 May 2021 2:13 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

The blog said support would end, it did not say it would be removed.

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian Vogel

Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 8:41 PM

Subject: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Hello All,

          Even though this message is not related to JAWS, the impact of this change is so important, and it is so likely to affect quite a few members who still use IE routinely, the information needs to be shared.  My intention is information sharing only, as there's really nothing to discuss.  This is a done deal.

See the article on techcommunity.microsoft.com entitled, Internet Explorer 11 desktop app retirement FAQ.

Those in business settings where they are forced to still use IE for specific sites also should pass this information along to "the powers that be" so that they can be aware of the change that's coming.

You need to start making plans to transition away from IE now, if you have not done so already.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: May Update for, JAWS2021, Build 2105.53, Download Link + What's New

John Gurd
 

The email thread keyboard commands don’t work for me. I’m assuming it’s because I’ve customised all my email groups into threads via View Settings rather than the standard thread button. Is it working for othrs?

 

John

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Cristóbal
Sent: 19 May 2021 19:41
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: May Update for, JAWS2021, Build 2105.53, Download Link + What's New

 

Seems like a fairly significant update.

Hopefully the email thread thing gets more attention.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 10:48 AM
To: JList <main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: May Update for, JAWS2021, Build 2105.53, Download Link + What's New

 

Hi All,

 

Below is the direct download link for the May J2021 build, 2105.53, update + what's new in this release.

 

32 & 64 Bit Download Link:

 

 

What's New:

 

Enhancements in JAWS 2021.2105.53 (May 2021)

 

The following is a list of improvements made between the April 2021 release and the May 2021 update.

 

Easier Navigation Through Email Threads in Outlook

 

It is quite common, particularly in a work or school environment, for email messages to include several people, resulting in lengthy message threads as
participants reply and add to the conversation. When opening an email that contains a thread of messages, including replies or forwards, it can be time
consuming to read through the thread with JAWS or Fusion using the ARROW keys to locate particular responses as you need to move through all of the header
information for each message.

 

To make this easier, you can now use the N or SHIFT+N Navigation Quick Keys to quickly move to and place focus at the beginning of the next or previous
message in an open email thread, skipping over all of the header information. As you navigate with these commands, JAWS and Fusion reads who the message
is from, the date it was sent, and the first line. If you determine this is not the message in the thread you were looking for, continue using N or SHIFT+N
until you reach the message you want. While reading a particular message in the thread, pressing ALT+1 or ALT+2 now announces the sender or date  of the
message at your current location. To review sender and date info for the entire email, press CTRL+HOME to move back to the top before pressing ALT+1 or
ALT+2.

 

For users of the Focus braille display, you can set a NAV rocker to move through messages in an open email thread. While focused in an email, press the
NAV Mode button above the NAV rocker you want to set to cycle through the available navigation modes until "Message" is selected. If you are using an older
Focus display that includes Wiz Wheels, press down on the wheel to select the mode. If focus moves away from the message, the navigation mode defaults
back to Line.

 

Note: Currently, this feature is only available while reading an email and not when editing a message. Additionally, while currently limited to messages
containing replies and forwards from Outlook, we will continue to improve this feature over time to support emails from other sources like Gmail and iOS.

 

Voice Assistant Improvements

 

In the initial 2021 release, we introduced Voice Assistant, a new way to interact with JAWS in Windows 10. Voice Assistant offers a convenient option for
quickly performing various JAWS commands using natural speech instead of memorizing specific keystrokes. Since its introduction, we have received numerous
requests from customers wanting to be able to access more JAWS features by voice in order to increase productivity.

 

Some JAWS features you can now access by using voice commands include:

 

list of 16 items
• Selecting Text, especially blocks of text, has never been easier. Just locate the spot where you wish to begin selecting and say "Hey Sharky, Start Selection."
Then navigate to the location where selection should end and say "Hey Sharky, Finish Selection." You did it! At that point, all text between the two locations
will be highlighted. You can confirm using the SHIFT+INSERT+DOWN ARROW Command to verify you got it all. This works on Web Pages, in Documents, and even
in Emails.
• Working with the JAWS speech history without remembering any keystrokes is now even easier. Try any of the following:
list of 3 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, Show Speech History"
• "Hey Sharky, Copy Speech History to Clipboard"
• "Hey Sharky, Clear Speech History"
list end nesting level 1
• Working with Technical Support just got easier. Have you ever been asked to get the version information for your software or operating system? Try this
out:
list of 2 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, Virtualize Version Info"
• "Hey Sharky, Copy Version Info to Clipboard"
list end nesting level 1
• You can now ask JAWS to help virtualize a control or window, or even copy them directly to the Clipboard. For example, go to the JAWS About dialog box,
and try the following:
list of 4 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, Virtualize Window"
• "Hey Sharky, Copy Window"
• "Hey Sharky, Virtualize Control"
• "Hey Sharky, Copy Control"
list end nesting level 1
• When navigating Word documents and Outlook messages, you can use Voice Assistant to work with various elements like headings, tables, and graphics. Try
the following:
list of 3 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, List Headings"
• "Hey Sharky, Next Table"
• "Hey Sharky, Next Graphic"
list end nesting level 1
• When editing a Word document or Outlook message, you can use Voice Assistant to move to Spelling or Grammatical errors. For Example, try:
list of 2 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, Next Spelling Error"
• "Hey Sharky, Next Grammatical Error"
list end nesting level 1
• While reading a message in Outlook containing several replies or forwards, you can now say "Hey Sharky, Next Message" or "Previous Message." You will
skip the headings and get right to the various replies within that email.
• When focused on math content in Word that you wish to navigate, you can now say "Hey Sharky, Math Viewer." This opens the JAWS Math Viewer where you
can explore the current equation.
• To edit a math equation using the new Braille Math Editor, move to the equation and say "Hey Sharky, Math Editor."
• Toggle the Braille or Text Viewers on or off by saying "Hey Sharky, Braille Viewer" or "Text Viewer."
• Start or stop a JAWS Tandem session by saying "Hey Sharky, Tandem."
• Open the Select a Voice Profile dialog box by saying "Hey Sharky, Voice Profile."
• To access something in the System Tray, try saying "Hey Sharky, System Tray."
• Speak the most recent Windows notification by saying "Hey Sharky, Notification."
• If you have a laptop and want to know the charge level of its battery, just say "Hey Sharky, Battery."
• On a web page, open the Custom Label dialog box for labeling an element by saying "Hey Sharky, Custom Label."
list end

 

Braille Math Editor

 

JAWS and Fusion currently supports reading Math equations on web pages that are displayed using MathML, or math equations in Microsoft Word documents inserted
using the native Word math format. You can navigate the individual elements of an equation using the Math Viewer, accessed by pressing ENTER from a web
page or INSERT+SPACEBAR followed by EQUALS from a Word document when focused on the equation. If JAWS braille translation is set to Unified English Braille
or United States English Grade 1 or Grade 2 output, math expressions are also shown on a braille display using Nemeth Braille format.

 

The new Braille Math Editor in JAWS now enables braille users in Windows 10 to input their own equations, and in Office 365, edit existing equations in
Word documents. To open the Math Editor, press the layered command INSERT+SPACEBAR followed by SHIFT+EQUALS (plus sign). Focus braille display users can
also press DOTS 3-4-6-7 CHORD.

 

When the Math Editor opens, focus is placed into an edit field where you can immediately begin typing the equation in Nemeth braille from your braille
display's keyboard. As you type, a preview pane below the edit field visually displays the equation so a sighted teacher or parent can review it. Once
you are finished inputting the math equation, press ENTER or choose the Accept button to close the Math Editor. If you are in Word, the equation you entered
is automatically inserted into the document at your current location. The equation is also copied to the Clipboard so you can paste it in other applications.

 

Opening the Math Editor while focused on a math equation in a Word document displays the existing equation in Nemeth Braille, allowing you to edit or replace
it. After making any changes and pressing ENTER to close the editor, the current equation in the document is replaced by the new or modified equation.

 

Note: After inserting or modifying an equation in Word from the Math Editor, the blinking cursor (dots 7 and 8) on the braille display always remains at
the beginning of the math content, even as you move by character with the LEFT and RIGHT ARROW keys. If you need to insert another line of math content,
first press the END key to move to the end of the current math content and then press ENTER.

 

While the Math Editor is opened, you have the following additional options:

 

list of 3 items
• Press CTRL+N to start a new equation.
• Press CTRL+P to preview the current equation in the Math Viewer. When finished, press ESC to return to the Math Editor.
• Press ALT+E to open the edit menu where you can copy your Nemeth Braille to the Clipboard using a specific format. MathML is the default format when
copying, however, depending on the application where you intend to paste the equation, you can also choose to copy your Nemeth Braille to LaTeX or Braille
ASCII. After choosing a format to copy to, paste the equation into the specific application before pressing ENTER or selecting Accept to close the Math
Editor as this always copies as MathML and will erase the current clipboard contents.
list end

 

To learn more about Nemeth Braille, check out this
Nemeth Tutorial
 which teaches this braille code beginning with the very basics up through advanced mathematics.

 

Other Changes
list of 12 items
• Resolved an issue where JAWS was not announcing the download status of files in Edge Chromium.
• Addressed an issue where the text of a link in a GMail message was not being read if it spanned multiple lines.
• When selecting a link or button on a web page that opens a modal dialog such as a calendar, resolved an issue where JAWS was reading the entire contents
of the dialog all at once as soon as it gained focus.
• JAWS now indicates when you move in and out of text in Google Docs that is marked as a suggestion.
• Expanded the description in Commands Search for setting a temporary PlaceMarker (CTRL+WINDOWS+K) to describe how this keystroke is used as part of selecting
text.
• Added the Copy Speech History to Clipboard keystroke (INSERT+SPACEBAR, CTRL+H) to Commands Search.
• Updated the description in Commands Search for the Read Address Bar keystroke (INSERT+A) so it can be found by searching for either "URL" or "address."
• If the Navigation Quick Key Manager is launched from an Outlook message, the Navigation Quick Key N for moving through messages in a thread, is now listed
so you can reassign it if necessary. The Navigation Quick Key Manager is located in the Run JAWS Manager dialog box (INSERT+F2).
• Resolved an issue where Navigation Quick Keys in Outlook messages would sometimes unexpectedly stop working until you moved focus away then back to the
message.
• When selecting text in Outlook messages for copying and pasting, addressed an issue where selection was not always working as expected, causing the wrong
text to be selected. This occurred most often in messages containing lists.
• Updated the INSERT+H help for Excel to list all of the latest JAWS hot keys.
• Added a new dictionary rule for "FYI" so JAWS no longer says the more verbose "for your information" when encountering this acronym.
list end

 


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

James English
 

There will never be an update from the web developers in order to make
it work with modern browsers, as the website in question is not in
active development and we've not heard from the web developers in a
very long time. Updates from internet explorer stopped in 2016, and
internet explorer is available as a download from the Microsoft
website, so it's clearly not as linked to the OS itself as you seem to
be making out.

On 5/20/21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 01:16 PM, Barbara Sheinbein wrote:


With the email open I pressed alt-h, then a and finally v which opens up
in IE and the email is presented in HTML.
-
Barbara, this will likely transition right over to Edge.

I shared this information about IE immediately after learning it myself on
one of the forums I haunt that has technical support professionals only as
its membership, but most of it is readable by anyone.  If you are inclined
to want to read through the topic on Technibble, here it is: *IE being
removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022* (
https://www.technibble.com/forums/threads/ie-being-removed-from-win-10-20h2-and-later-effective-june-15th-2022.86915
)

But for those who don't, here's a sampling of comments from the geek
community about this move (the last one being most pertinent to your
comment):

* And all I can say is... FINALLY!
* I never thought hell would freeze over. Crap, now I gotta make good on
some stuff.
* I agree, it's nuts that IE is still a part of Windows.
* [with regard to things that depend on using IE] That's on these damn
software vendors. They need to get with the times.
* Great, maybe my Outlook 365 will FINALLY stop opening email links in IE
11.

Most of us "in the biz" have been waiting for this day to arrive, praying
for it in fact, because of issues we have kept encountering in relation to
the use of IE11, which are many.  If MS itself doesn't clean up M365 to
remove any triggering of IE11 where that currently exists, and replace it
with either Edge or the user's chosen default browser under Windows 10, they
will hear about it big time!
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

*It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are
not.*

~ André Gide






moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 01:16 PM, Barbara Sheinbein wrote:
With the email open I pressed alt-h, then a and finally v which opens up in IE and the email is presented in HTML.
-
Barbara, this will likely transition right over to Edge.

I shared this information about IE immediately after learning it myself on one of the forums I haunt that has technical support professionals only as its membership, but most of it is readable by anyone.  If you are inclined to want to read through the topic on Technibble, here it is: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022 

But for those who don't, here's a sampling of comments from the geek community about this move (the last one being most pertinent to your comment):

  • And all I can say is... FINALLY!
  • I never thought hell would freeze over. Crap, now I gotta make good on some stuff.
  • I agree, it's nuts that IE is still a part of Windows.
  • [with regard to things that depend on using IE] That's on these damn software vendors. They need to get with the times.
  • Great, maybe my Outlook 365 will FINALLY stop opening email links in IE 11.

Most of us "in the biz" have been waiting for this day to arrive, praying for it in fact, because of issues we have kept encountering in relation to the use of IE11, which are many.  If MS itself doesn't clean up M365 to remove any triggering of IE11 where that currently exists, and replace it with either Edge or the user's chosen default browser under Windows 10, they will hear about it big time!
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 12:56 PM, James English wrote:
I just don't want it to be removed from my computer.
-
The following is said with no anger, snark, nor condescension, so please don't read any in:  That just doesn't matter.

You have the belief that software that's part and parcel of the operating system can sit, untouched, and just stay there forever, and it can't.  If this were the case then there would have been no reason to retire MS-Edge original, either, as it could have sat there forever.  But these programs are directly dependent on being updated to continue to work with changes that happen to Windows itself.  That's not appreciated by most end users, nor would I honestly expect it to be in general.  That's why I've gone to the effort (and not just here) of explaining what actually happens "under the hood" without getting drawn into the rabbit hole of excessive detail.

You don't get this choice.  I don't get this choice.  No individual or organization gets this choice.  The maker and maintainer of any given piece of software makes that choice based on a huge number of factors.   IE has has a minuscule market segment for years now, and was maintained "as a courtesy" to allow for a very long transition period (too long, in my opinion).  It, like so much other software, is at the end of its service life.  You can't fight that, and the energy required to do so is better spent finding alternatives that work for you where you need them to work.  In the case of companies/organizations that have refused to update their websites to work with other than IE, they are going to have to do that now or their products will disappear as of next June, too.

But any and all attempts, by anyone, to "make this personal" and say that Microsoft is targeting them or being unreasonable is to be willfully ignorant of how this stuff works, and will continue to work.  These factors are exactly what's at play as far as the inability to maintain backward compatibility in perpetuity as well.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Barbara Sheinbein
 

Hi Everyone,

 

This IE change poses a question for me.  I use other browsers than IE with one exception.  I am using Windows 10 and Office 365.  I use Outlook and from time to time I get email messages usually from a company/organization that I have a problem with.  I want to enter on a specific link and when I do this, I am transferred to a web page not the topic I wanted.  After trying a second time to be sure I have entered where I do want and getting the same results, I go to the next method.  With the email open I pressed alt-h, then a and finally v which opens up in IE and the email is presented in HTML.  I again find my link and enter on it and I am taken to the correct page.  I am assuming this is some accessibility software issue beyond my knowledge.  Smile.  This long  winded explanation leads me to the current thread.  I assume I will still be able to do this as needed, but if there is a straightforward alternative, please let me know.

 

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

 

Barbara

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 9:18 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Hi,

At least two people pointed out on Win10 Forum that they need Internet Explorer, and I advised them to look into IE mode in Microsoft Edge designed for scenarios like accessing web applications that rely on IE and its rendering engine for full functionality.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of kylee@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 7:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Um … that means that it will no longer be updated, causing increasing holes in security.

Kylee

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Loy
Sent: Thursday, 20 May 2021 2:13 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

The blog said support would end, it did not say it would be removed.

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 8:41 PM

Subject: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Hello All,

          Even though this message is not related to JAWS, the impact of this change is so important, and it is so likely to affect quite a few members who still use IE routinely, the information needs to be shared.  My intention is information sharing only, as there's really nothing to discuss.  This is a done deal.

See the article on techcommunity.microsoft.com entitled, Internet Explorer 11 desktop app retirement FAQ.

Those in business settings where they are forced to still use IE for specific sites also should pass this information along to "the powers that be" so that they can be aware of the change that's coming.

You need to start making plans to transition away from IE now, if you have not done so already.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

James English
 

Sorry but what do you mean by continuing to produce? From what I
understand this retirement means it's going to be removed from our
computers during a windows update. I'm not asking Microsoft to do
anything, I don't care if it's never updated and if no Microsoft
developer takes a look at IE in the future I won't bat an eyelid. I
just don't want it to be removed from my computer.

On 5/20/21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 12:44 PM, James English wrote:


Would just like to be allowed to take that risk without Microsoft
deciding
that they know best.
-
Which is a complete distortion of what's going on.  They are dropping
support and retiring something they don't want to maintain.  It happens,
repeatedly, and will never stop happening.

They don't give a tinker's dam about shielding you from risk.  They just
don't want to make this product anymore.  It does no one any good to assign
motives that are just not there.

As I just wrote (in part) privately to Hope:  ". . . no company is
responsible for continuing to produce the things you personally happen to
like or love.  You are not even a part of the considerations for doing so,
at the level of the individual or very small groups. "
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

*It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are
not.*

~ André Gide






moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 12:44 PM, James English wrote:
Would just like to be allowed to take that risk without Microsoft deciding that they know best.
-
Which is a complete distortion of what's going on.  They are dropping support and retiring something they don't want to maintain.  It happens, repeatedly, and will never stop happening.

They don't give a tinker's dam about shielding you from risk.  They just don't want to make this product anymore.  It does no one any good to assign motives that are just not there.

As I just wrote (in part) privately to Hope:  ". . .  no company is responsible for continuing to produce the things you personally happen to like or love.  You are not even a part of the considerations for doing so, at the level of the individual or very small groups."
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

James English
 

There is a website which I use IE for, and I pretty much only use it
for that website. It's not that the other browsers don't work with it,
jaws navigation on it is just a whole lot better when I use it with
IE. I don't need Microsoft to keep patching security flaws in IE, I'm
quite prepared to take the risk. Would just like to be allowed to take
that risk without Microsoft deciding that they know best.

On 5/20/21, Hope Williamson <webspinner@mail.com> wrote:
There are a thousand other RSS readers out there, and Microsoft is
definitely not demonstrating any disregard for accessibility whatsoever,
by ending IE!!! If you really want to stick with desktop readers, and
the 20th century, you could use something like Luna.

https://nathantech.net/products/software/lunarss.

On 5/20/2021 7:10 AM, Gerald Levy via groups.io wrote:


The big problem I have with Edge is that it does not offer an
accessible RSS feed option or reader extension.  At least the RSS feed
reader built into IE is completely JAWS accessible and is still the
most convenient, and easiest to use feed reader I have found. By
ending support for IE without providing a comparably accessible feed
reader in Edge, MS is demonstrating yet again its disregard for the
special needs of its disabled customers.


Gerald



On 5/20/2021 9:44 AM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:
Microsoft wants everyone on their latest and greatest, so they can make
more
profit with everyone using edge.
So no doubt they will do as much as possible to cripple IE.
I remember when the press reported that someone inside MS released some
windows XP code, leaving it vulnerable to hackers.
I have no doubt that MS leaked that XP code themselves to validate the
ushering in of the next operating system.
Now MS has new ways of making money.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
From: "James English"<james13english@gmail.com>
To:<main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June
15th 2022


Great, there is a website I use regularly which is an utter pain to
use with anything but IE. I use it for a shrinking number of sites
now, but I still don't get why Microsoft gives a flying fuck what web
browser I choose to use.

On 5/20/21, Glenn / Lenny<glennervin@cableone.net> wrote:
Is that why you are so pleased with yourself?

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Vogel
To:main@jfw.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective
June
15th 2022


Ignorance is bliss . . .














moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Hope Williamson <webspinner@...>
 

There are a thousand other RSS readers out there, and Microsoft is definitely not demonstrating any disregard for accessibility whatsoever, by ending IE!!! If you really want to stick with desktop readers, and the 20th century, you could use something like Luna.

https://nathantech.net/products/software/lunarss.

On 5/20/2021 7:10 AM, Gerald Levy via groups.io wrote:


The big problem I have with Edge is that it does not offer an accessible RSS feed option or reader extension.  At least the RSS feed reader built into IE is completely JAWS accessible and is still the most convenient, and easiest to use feed reader I have found.  By ending support for IE without providing a comparably accessible feed reader in Edge, MS is demonstrating yet again its disregard for the special needs of its disabled customers.


Gerald



On 5/20/2021 9:44 AM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:
Microsoft wants everyone on their latest and greatest, so they can make more
profit with everyone using edge.
So no doubt they will do as much as possible to cripple IE.
I remember when the press reported that someone inside MS released some
windows XP code, leaving it vulnerable to hackers.
I have no doubt that MS leaked that XP code themselves to validate the
ushering in of the next operating system.
Now MS has new ways of making money.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
From: "James English" <james13english@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June
15th 2022


Great, there is a website I use regularly which is an utter pain to
use with anything but IE. I use it for a shrinking number of sites
now, but I still don't get why Microsoft gives a flying fuck what web
browser I choose to use.

On 5/20/21, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote:
Is that why you are so pleased with yourself?

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Vogel
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June
15th 2022


Ignorance is bliss . . .













moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Hope Williamson <webspinner@...>
 

Miniflux is a server-based reader. In other words, you install it on a server, get a service to set up an instance for you, like I have, or use the hosted version.

    Since it requires a postgresql database, I don't think there's anyway you're getting it on a desktop anytime soon. I could be very wrong about this, and someone could come along and say it's definitely possible and here's how.

On 5/20/2021 7:38 AM, Gerald Levy via groups.io wrote:


Because there are already a number of Chromium-based RSS extensions out there, none of which I have been found to be accessible, I don't think MS has any plans to develop its own RSS feed extension for Edge.  But although IE is apparently being removed from Windows 10, it probably won't be removed fromWindows 7, which after all, MS would like to pretend no longer exists, and so is not worth devoting time and resources to removing IE from the operating system.    If worst comes to worst, I can switch to the RSS feed reader built into Thunderbird, which is at least accessible, if not as convenient as the one built into IE. Someone on another list recommended an accessible  stand-alone RSS feed reader program called  Miniflux.  Has anyone had experience with it?  


Gerald


 

On 5/20/2021 10:11 AM, Richard Turner wrote:

Have you contacted Microsoft Accessibility about this concern?

They have over a year left before they are ending IE.  Perhaps a better RSS reader is in the works?

I don’t know as I don’t use RSS.

 

 

 

 

Richard

"The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it."

- John Ruskin, 1819-1900

 

Web site: www.turner42.com

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 7:10 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

 

The big problem I have with Edge is that it does not offer an accessible RSS feed option or reader extension.  At least the RSS feed reader built into IE is completely JAWS accessible and is still the most convenient, and easiest to use feed reader I have found.  By ending support for IE without providing a comparably accessible feed reader in Edge, MS is demonstrating yet again its disregard for the special needs of its disabled customers.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/20/2021 9:44 AM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:

Microsoft wants everyone on their latest and greatest, so they can make more 
profit with everyone using edge.
So no doubt they will do as much as possible to cripple IE.
I remember when the press reported that someone inside MS released some 
windows XP code, leaving it vulnerable to hackers.
I have no doubt that MS leaked that XP code themselves to validate the 
ushering in of the next operating system.
Now MS has new ways of making money.
Glenn
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James English" <james13english@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 
15th 2022
 
 
Great, there is a website I use regularly which is an utter pain to
use with anything but IE. I use it for a shrinking number of sites
now, but I still don't get why Microsoft gives a flying fuck what web
browser I choose to use.
 
On 5/20/21, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote:
Is that why you are so pleased with yourself?
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Vogel
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June
15th 2022
 
 
Ignorance is bliss . . .
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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