Date   

moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Barbara Sheinbein
 

Hi Everyone,

 

This IE change poses a question for me.  I use other browsers than IE with one exception.  I am using Windows 10 and Office 365.  I use Outlook and from time to time I get email messages usually from a company/organization that I have a problem with.  I want to enter on a specific link and when I do this, I am transferred to a web page not the topic I wanted.  After trying a second time to be sure I have entered where I do want and getting the same results, I go to the next method.  With the email open I pressed alt-h, then a and finally v which opens up in IE and the email is presented in HTML.  I again find my link and enter on it and I am taken to the correct page.  I am assuming this is some accessibility software issue beyond my knowledge.  Smile.  This long  winded explanation leads me to the current thread.  I assume I will still be able to do this as needed, but if there is a straightforward alternative, please let me know.

 

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

 

Barbara

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 9:18 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Hi,

At least two people pointed out on Win10 Forum that they need Internet Explorer, and I advised them to look into IE mode in Microsoft Edge designed for scenarios like accessing web applications that rely on IE and its rendering engine for full functionality.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of kylee@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 7:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Um … that means that it will no longer be updated, causing increasing holes in security.

Kylee

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Loy
Sent: Thursday, 20 May 2021 2:13 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

The blog said support would end, it did not say it would be removed.

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 8:41 PM

Subject: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Hello All,

          Even though this message is not related to JAWS, the impact of this change is so important, and it is so likely to affect quite a few members who still use IE routinely, the information needs to be shared.  My intention is information sharing only, as there's really nothing to discuss.  This is a done deal.

See the article on techcommunity.microsoft.com entitled, Internet Explorer 11 desktop app retirement FAQ.

Those in business settings where they are forced to still use IE for specific sites also should pass this information along to "the powers that be" so that they can be aware of the change that's coming.

You need to start making plans to transition away from IE now, if you have not done so already.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

James English
 

Sorry but what do you mean by continuing to produce? From what I
understand this retirement means it's going to be removed from our
computers during a windows update. I'm not asking Microsoft to do
anything, I don't care if it's never updated and if no Microsoft
developer takes a look at IE in the future I won't bat an eyelid. I
just don't want it to be removed from my computer.

On 5/20/21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 12:44 PM, James English wrote:


Would just like to be allowed to take that risk without Microsoft
deciding
that they know best.
-
Which is a complete distortion of what's going on.  They are dropping
support and retiring something they don't want to maintain.  It happens,
repeatedly, and will never stop happening.

They don't give a tinker's dam about shielding you from risk.  They just
don't want to make this product anymore.  It does no one any good to assign
motives that are just not there.

As I just wrote (in part) privately to Hope:  ". . . no company is
responsible for continuing to produce the things you personally happen to
like or love.  You are not even a part of the considerations for doing so,
at the level of the individual or very small groups. "
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

*It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are
not.*

~ André Gide






moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 12:44 PM, James English wrote:
Would just like to be allowed to take that risk without Microsoft deciding that they know best.
-
Which is a complete distortion of what's going on.  They are dropping support and retiring something they don't want to maintain.  It happens, repeatedly, and will never stop happening.

They don't give a tinker's dam about shielding you from risk.  They just don't want to make this product anymore.  It does no one any good to assign motives that are just not there.

As I just wrote (in part) privately to Hope:  ". . .  no company is responsible for continuing to produce the things you personally happen to like or love.  You are not even a part of the considerations for doing so, at the level of the individual or very small groups."
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

James English
 

There is a website which I use IE for, and I pretty much only use it
for that website. It's not that the other browsers don't work with it,
jaws navigation on it is just a whole lot better when I use it with
IE. I don't need Microsoft to keep patching security flaws in IE, I'm
quite prepared to take the risk. Would just like to be allowed to take
that risk without Microsoft deciding that they know best.

On 5/20/21, Hope Williamson <webspinner@mail.com> wrote:
There are a thousand other RSS readers out there, and Microsoft is
definitely not demonstrating any disregard for accessibility whatsoever,
by ending IE!!! If you really want to stick with desktop readers, and
the 20th century, you could use something like Luna.

https://nathantech.net/products/software/lunarss.

On 5/20/2021 7:10 AM, Gerald Levy via groups.io wrote:


The big problem I have with Edge is that it does not offer an
accessible RSS feed option or reader extension.  At least the RSS feed
reader built into IE is completely JAWS accessible and is still the
most convenient, and easiest to use feed reader I have found. By
ending support for IE without providing a comparably accessible feed
reader in Edge, MS is demonstrating yet again its disregard for the
special needs of its disabled customers.


Gerald



On 5/20/2021 9:44 AM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:
Microsoft wants everyone on their latest and greatest, so they can make
more
profit with everyone using edge.
So no doubt they will do as much as possible to cripple IE.
I remember when the press reported that someone inside MS released some
windows XP code, leaving it vulnerable to hackers.
I have no doubt that MS leaked that XP code themselves to validate the
ushering in of the next operating system.
Now MS has new ways of making money.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
From: "James English"<james13english@gmail.com>
To:<main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June
15th 2022


Great, there is a website I use regularly which is an utter pain to
use with anything but IE. I use it for a shrinking number of sites
now, but I still don't get why Microsoft gives a flying fuck what web
browser I choose to use.

On 5/20/21, Glenn / Lenny<glennervin@cableone.net> wrote:
Is that why you are so pleased with yourself?

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Vogel
To:main@jfw.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective
June
15th 2022


Ignorance is bliss . . .














moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Hope Williamson <webspinner@...>
 

There are a thousand other RSS readers out there, and Microsoft is definitely not demonstrating any disregard for accessibility whatsoever, by ending IE!!! If you really want to stick with desktop readers, and the 20th century, you could use something like Luna.

https://nathantech.net/products/software/lunarss.

On 5/20/2021 7:10 AM, Gerald Levy via groups.io wrote:


The big problem I have with Edge is that it does not offer an accessible RSS feed option or reader extension.  At least the RSS feed reader built into IE is completely JAWS accessible and is still the most convenient, and easiest to use feed reader I have found.  By ending support for IE without providing a comparably accessible feed reader in Edge, MS is demonstrating yet again its disregard for the special needs of its disabled customers.


Gerald



On 5/20/2021 9:44 AM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:
Microsoft wants everyone on their latest and greatest, so they can make more
profit with everyone using edge.
So no doubt they will do as much as possible to cripple IE.
I remember when the press reported that someone inside MS released some
windows XP code, leaving it vulnerable to hackers.
I have no doubt that MS leaked that XP code themselves to validate the
ushering in of the next operating system.
Now MS has new ways of making money.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
From: "James English" <james13english@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June
15th 2022


Great, there is a website I use regularly which is an utter pain to
use with anything but IE. I use it for a shrinking number of sites
now, but I still don't get why Microsoft gives a flying fuck what web
browser I choose to use.

On 5/20/21, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote:
Is that why you are so pleased with yourself?

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Vogel
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June
15th 2022


Ignorance is bliss . . .













moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Hope Williamson <webspinner@...>
 

Miniflux is a server-based reader. In other words, you install it on a server, get a service to set up an instance for you, like I have, or use the hosted version.

    Since it requires a postgresql database, I don't think there's anyway you're getting it on a desktop anytime soon. I could be very wrong about this, and someone could come along and say it's definitely possible and here's how.

On 5/20/2021 7:38 AM, Gerald Levy via groups.io wrote:


Because there are already a number of Chromium-based RSS extensions out there, none of which I have been found to be accessible, I don't think MS has any plans to develop its own RSS feed extension for Edge.  But although IE is apparently being removed from Windows 10, it probably won't be removed fromWindows 7, which after all, MS would like to pretend no longer exists, and so is not worth devoting time and resources to removing IE from the operating system.    If worst comes to worst, I can switch to the RSS feed reader built into Thunderbird, which is at least accessible, if not as convenient as the one built into IE. Someone on another list recommended an accessible  stand-alone RSS feed reader program called  Miniflux.  Has anyone had experience with it?  


Gerald


 

On 5/20/2021 10:11 AM, Richard Turner wrote:

Have you contacted Microsoft Accessibility about this concern?

They have over a year left before they are ending IE.  Perhaps a better RSS reader is in the works?

I don’t know as I don’t use RSS.

 

 

 

 

Richard

"The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it."

- John Ruskin, 1819-1900

 

Web site: www.turner42.com

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 7:10 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

 

The big problem I have with Edge is that it does not offer an accessible RSS feed option or reader extension.  At least the RSS feed reader built into IE is completely JAWS accessible and is still the most convenient, and easiest to use feed reader I have found.  By ending support for IE without providing a comparably accessible feed reader in Edge, MS is demonstrating yet again its disregard for the special needs of its disabled customers.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/20/2021 9:44 AM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:

Microsoft wants everyone on their latest and greatest, so they can make more 
profit with everyone using edge.
So no doubt they will do as much as possible to cripple IE.
I remember when the press reported that someone inside MS released some 
windows XP code, leaving it vulnerable to hackers.
I have no doubt that MS leaked that XP code themselves to validate the 
ushering in of the next operating system.
Now MS has new ways of making money.
Glenn
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James English" <james13english@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 
15th 2022
 
 
Great, there is a website I use regularly which is an utter pain to
use with anything but IE. I use it for a shrinking number of sites
now, but I still don't get why Microsoft gives a flying fuck what web
browser I choose to use.
 
On 5/20/21, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote:
Is that why you are so pleased with yourself?
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Vogel
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June
15th 2022
 
 
Ignorance is bliss . . .
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Hope Williamson <webspinner@...>
 

No, but Google says they're going to replace microsoft's RSS reader. Um... OK... just kidding, they're actually sort of just replacing the one they shut down back in  2013, but not really.

https://9to5google.com/2021/05/19/chrome-follow-rss-feed/
Also, Microsoft shouldn't have to build a replacement RSS reader, and I'm pretty sure they aren't planning to. They already do some sort of news thing in edge. There are plenty of RSS readers out there. Keep trying them, and you'll find the one you like, as I did. Did it take a while? Certainly!
On 5/20/2021 8:15 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 11:09 AM, Richard Turner wrote:
However, asking Microsoft if they plan anything around a replacement RSS reader is not making them responsible,
-
You are indeed correct.  I was carrying along context from something not said by you, but by Gerald.

And my point, really, isn't about accessibility specifically.  It's about the fact that Microsoft (or any software maker) is not obligated or responsible to make anew, or keep maintaining, anything that any given individual user happens to use.

You are absolutely correct that there is nothing wrong with asking them if there is an intention to produce an RSS reader, and I apologize for having carried along a sentiment you had not expressed.  It happens sometimes.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Suggestion for question askers

Sieghard Weitzel <sieghard@...>
 

I assume so since whatever number corresponds to the position on the taskbar, e.g. if you have 6 apps pinned there you use numbers 1 through 6.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Bentley
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 7:53 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Suggestion for question askers

 

How many Apps can be pinned to the task bar?

 

Do you have to have 9 Apps pinned before you can asign the number zero to an App?

 

James B

 

  From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 8:45 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Suggestion for question askers

 

A much better option is to pin your favourite applications to the taskbar. In Windows 10 the Windows Key + the correspondin number key is the shortcut to load or jump to that application.

If you type Mail and it comes up just press Shiftv + F10 or the application key if you have one and arrow down to "Pin to Taskbar".

Now go to the Taskbar which can be easily done by pressing Windows Key + T, the first app you land on is the one on the very left and wuold be 1.

If you arrow right you can see what else is there, if you get to Mail after pressing right arrow 3 tims that means it is in position 4. Now you can also rearrange the apps on the taskbar as you like them, if you use Jaws pressJaws JKey + Control + NumPad Slash to start dragging the app you are on, arrow left or right to where you want it and press the same key combination again to drop it there.

Let's say you put Edge or Chrome or whichever browser you use in the first position, the Mail in second, Notepad in third and Excel in fourth.

You can now open or go to any of these applications simply by pressing Windows Key + 1 on the number row for your browser, Windows Key + 2 for Mail, Windows Key + 3 for Notepad and Windowss Jkey + 4 for Excel.

This is much better for your 5 or 6 most used apps than puttin gthem on the desktop where every time you want to get to it you have to press Windows Key + D or M to minimize to the desktop, then arrowing to your application or using first letter navigation to get to it and pressing enter to open it.

This way if you are browsing the web and you hear an email come in all you have to do it press Windows Key + 2 and no matter if Mail is already loaded or not it will open. When you are done and you want to go back to your browsing session you can either press Alt + Tab or press Windows Key + 1.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Turner
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 5:30 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Suggestion for question askers

 

If when asking a question, one actually took a sentence or two to say what they have done on their own to find the answer, it would help a lot in getting a reasonably good answer and help those of us who try to help know what not to repeat if it has already been tried or searched for.

 

That to me seems like a damnably reasonable request before anyone tries to help.

 

Too often questions are thrown out there with no context, so it is easy to think the person has not tried to find anything on their own.

 

I do not want a big discussion about this, just consider it and those who adopt it, great, and those who don’t, o well.

 

 

Richard

"The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it."

- John Ruskin, 1819-1900

 

Web site: www.turner42.com

 

 

 


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Richard Turner <richardturner42@...>
 

Brian, I have to agree with your statement about Microsoft’s commitment to accessibility,  It is extremely high.

 

However, asking Microsoft if they plan anything around a replacement RSS reader is not making them responsible, it is merely asking the question that so far, everyone is ASSuming has a negative answer.

 

I was shocked, quite pleasantly, when I bought a new Dell laptop almost 3 years ago and when I turned it on, it came up talking.

I needed no sighted help to set it up.

 

Not to mention their making two extremely valuable apps for iOS devices, Seeing AI and SoundScape, which are totally free, and continue to evolve with more features geared specifically for the visually impaired consumers.

 

Is everything perfect, no, but who the hell said things have to be perfect just because you are blind.  Nothing is perfect for sighted computer/device users, and it is getting monumentally better for blind users, possibly at a faster rate than for sighted, but that I wouldn’t know about.

 

I’m old enough to remember the days before all this electronic device dependence, and all I can say is people are terribly spoiled.

 

I’ll shut up now on this topic.

 

 

 

 

 

Richard

"The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it."

- John Ruskin, 1819-1900

 

Web site: www.turner42.com

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 7:52 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 10:40 AM, Richard Turner wrote:

Has anyone actually asks Microsoft?

-
Whether they have or not, it's not up to Microsoft to provide every product for every user.  One of the incredible beauties of the Windows ecosystem, from the start, was that it made (and still makes) it so easy for third-party software makers to create products for use under Windows.

And when it comes to RSS readers, a very great many have, and some of those specifically with an accessibility focus.

I find the assertion that Microsoft is dismissive of accessibility and the users that need it risible.  Their dedication to baking in accessibility overall has done nothing but increase over the years.  That doesn't mean that everything is perfect, either.  But the trajectory has been in one direction - increasing accessibility of their newly introduced products by designing it in.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 10:40 AM, Richard Turner wrote:
Has anyone actually asks Microsoft?
-
Whether they have or not, it's not up to Microsoft to provide every product for every user.  One of the incredible beauties of the Windows ecosystem, from the start, was that it made (and still makes) it so easy for third-party software makers to create products for use under Windows.

And when it comes to RSS readers, a very great many have, and some of those specifically with an accessibility focus.

I find the assertion that Microsoft is dismissive of accessibility and the users that need it risible.  Their dedication to baking in accessibility overall has done nothing but increase over the years.  That doesn't mean that everything is perfect, either.  But the trajectory has been in one direction - increasing accessibility of their newly introduced products by designing it in.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=accessible+rss+reader 

in the first few results:

Get Accessible RSS News Reader - Microsoft Store

Accessible Apps - QFeed
and a few further down below it, additional info: QFeed an accessible RSS Reader | Mystic Access

 

17 Accessible Web Based RSS Readers - blueblots.com
this one does not seem to be using "accessible" strictly in the "by screen reader users" sense, but it's an awfully good bet that at least several of the options are.  I didn't review them all.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Richard Turner <richardturner42@...>
 

Has anyone actually asks Microsoft?

 

 

 

Richard

"The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it."

- John Ruskin, 1819-1900

 

Web site: www.turner42.com

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 7:39 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

 

Because there are already a number of Chromium-based RSS extensions out there, none of which I have been found to be accessible, I don't think MS has any plans to develop its own RSS feed extension for Edge.  But although IE is apparently being removed from Windows 10, it probably won't be removed fromWindows 7, which after all, MS would like to pretend no longer exists, and so is not worth devoting time and resources to removing IE from the operating system.    If worst comes to worst, I can switch to the RSS feed reader built into Thunderbird, which is at least accessible, if not as convenient as the one built into IE. Someone on another list recommended an accessible  stand-alone RSS feed reader program called  Miniflux.  Has anyone had experience with it?  

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/20/2021 10:11 AM, Richard Turner wrote:

Have you contacted Microsoft Accessibility about this concern?

They have over a year left before they are ending IE.  Perhaps a better RSS reader is in the works?

I don’t know as I don’t use RSS.

 

 

 

 

Richard

"The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it."

- John Ruskin, 1819-1900

 

Web site: www.turner42.com

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 7:10 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

 

The big problem I have with Edge is that it does not offer an accessible RSS feed option or reader extension.  At least the RSS feed reader built into IE is completely JAWS accessible and is still the most convenient, and easiest to use feed reader I have found.  By ending support for IE without providing a comparably accessible feed reader in Edge, MS is demonstrating yet again its disregard for the special needs of its disabled customers.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/20/2021 9:44 AM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:

Microsoft wants everyone on their latest and greatest, so they can make more 
profit with everyone using edge.
So no doubt they will do as much as possible to cripple IE.
I remember when the press reported that someone inside MS released some 
windows XP code, leaving it vulnerable to hackers.
I have no doubt that MS leaked that XP code themselves to validate the 
ushering in of the next operating system.
Now MS has new ways of making money.
Glenn
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James English" <james13english@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 
15th 2022
 
 
Great, there is a website I use regularly which is an utter pain to
use with anything but IE. I use it for a shrinking number of sites
now, but I still don't get why Microsoft gives a flying fuck what web
browser I choose to use.
 
On 5/20/21, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote:
Is that why you are so pleased with yourself?
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Vogel
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June
15th 2022
 
 
Ignorance is bliss . . .
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


moderated Re: May Update for, JAWS2021, Build 2105.53, Download Link + What's New

Richard Turner <richardturner42@...>
 

This assumes Windows 10.

 

Press insert+j and down arrow to utilities.

Here is the speech history from going into that dialog:

Utilities  sub menu‑

Voice Assistant  sub menu‑

Talk to JAWS      INSERT+ALT+SPACE

 

Settings...

 

Voice Assistant

open‑  ‑

5 items

 

Enable Voice Assistant  checked‑

 

(press spacebar to toggle through the folowing three options:

Listen for wake word "Hey Sharky"

Do not listen for wake word

Listen for wake word "Sharky"

 

Enable Voice Assistant sounds  checked‑

Microphone Input Device Windows Default Input Device

Take Me to the Privacy Policy

 

 

Richard

"The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it."

- John Ruskin, 1819-1900

 

Web site: www.turner42.com

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of CJ &AA MAY
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 12:34 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: May Update for, JAWS2021, Build 2105.53, Download Link + What's New

 

Thanks for sharing this; very impressive.

In order to enable to Hey Sharkie commands, is there something you need to do first or is this a default? I seem to remember writing some weeks ago about a Jaws Ghost and being told how to switch this feature off, but I can now see it might be useful at times.

Alison

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: 19 May 2021 18:48
To: JList <main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: May Update for, JAWS2021, Build 2105.53, Download Link + What's New

 

Hi All,

 

Below is the direct download link for the May J2021 build, 2105.53, update + what's new in this release.

 

32 & 64 Bit Download Link:

 

 

What's New:

 

Enhancements in JAWS 2021.2105.53 (May 2021)

 

The following is a list of improvements made between the April 2021 release and the May 2021 update.

 

Easier Navigation Through Email Threads in Outlook

 

It is quite common, particularly in a work or school environment, for email messages to include several people, resulting in lengthy message threads as
participants reply and add to the conversation. When opening an email that contains a thread of messages, including replies or forwards, it can be time
consuming to read through the thread with JAWS or Fusion using the ARROW keys to locate particular responses as you need to move through all of the header
information for each message.

 

To make this easier, you can now use the N or SHIFT+N Navigation Quick Keys to quickly move to and place focus at the beginning of the next or previous
message in an open email thread, skipping over all of the header information. As you navigate with these commands, JAWS and Fusion reads who the message
is from, the date it was sent, and the first line. If you determine this is not the message in the thread you were looking for, continue using N or SHIFT+N
until you reach the message you want. While reading a particular message in the thread, pressing ALT+1 or ALT+2 now announces the sender or date  of the
message at your current location. To review sender and date info for the entire email, press CTRL+HOME to move back to the top before pressing ALT+1 or
ALT+2.

 

For users of the Focus braille display, you can set a NAV rocker to move through messages in an open email thread. While focused in an email, press the
NAV Mode button above the NAV rocker you want to set to cycle through the available navigation modes until "Message" is selected. If you are using an older
Focus display that includes Wiz Wheels, press down on the wheel to select the mode. If focus moves away from the message, the navigation mode defaults
back to Line.

 

Note: Currently, this feature is only available while reading an email and not when editing a message. Additionally, while currently limited to messages
containing replies and forwards from Outlook, we will continue to improve this feature over time to support emails from other sources like Gmail and iOS.

 

Voice Assistant Improvements

 

In the initial 2021 release, we introduced Voice Assistant, a new way to interact with JAWS in Windows 10. Voice Assistant offers a convenient option for
quickly performing various JAWS commands using natural speech instead of memorizing specific keystrokes. Since its introduction, we have received numerous
requests from customers wanting to be able to access more JAWS features by voice in order to increase productivity.

 

Some JAWS features you can now access by using voice commands include:

 

list of 16 items
• Selecting Text, especially blocks of text, has never been easier. Just locate the spot where you wish to begin selecting and say "Hey Sharky, Start Selection."
Then navigate to the location where selection should end and say "Hey Sharky, Finish Selection." You did it! At that point, all text between the two locations
will be highlighted. You can confirm using the SHIFT+INSERT+DOWN ARROW Command to verify you got it all. This works on Web Pages, in Documents, and even
in Emails.
• Working with the JAWS speech history without remembering any keystrokes is now even easier. Try any of the following:
list of 3 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, Show Speech History"
• "Hey Sharky, Copy Speech History to Clipboard"
• "Hey Sharky, Clear Speech History"
list end nesting level 1
• Working with Technical Support just got easier. Have you ever been asked to get the version information for your software or operating system? Try this
out:
list of 2 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, Virtualize Version Info"
• "Hey Sharky, Copy Version Info to Clipboard"
list end nesting level 1
• You can now ask JAWS to help virtualize a control or window, or even copy them directly to the Clipboard. For example, go to the JAWS About dialog box,
and try the following:
list of 4 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, Virtualize Window"
• "Hey Sharky, Copy Window"
• "Hey Sharky, Virtualize Control"
• "Hey Sharky, Copy Control"
list end nesting level 1
• When navigating Word documents and Outlook messages, you can use Voice Assistant to work with various elements like headings, tables, and graphics. Try
the following:
list of 3 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, List Headings"
• "Hey Sharky, Next Table"
• "Hey Sharky, Next Graphic"
list end nesting level 1
• When editing a Word document or Outlook message, you can use Voice Assistant to move to Spelling or Grammatical errors. For Example, try:
list of 2 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, Next Spelling Error"
• "Hey Sharky, Next Grammatical Error"
list end nesting level 1
• While reading a message in Outlook containing several replies or forwards, you can now say "Hey Sharky, Next Message" or "Previous Message." You will
skip the headings and get right to the various replies within that email.
• When focused on math content in Word that you wish to navigate, you can now say "Hey Sharky, Math Viewer." This opens the JAWS Math Viewer where you
can explore the current equation.
• To edit a math equation using the new Braille Math Editor, move to the equation and say "Hey Sharky, Math Editor."
• Toggle the Braille or Text Viewers on or off by saying "Hey Sharky, Braille Viewer" or "Text Viewer."
• Start or stop a JAWS Tandem session by saying "Hey Sharky, Tandem."
• Open the Select a Voice Profile dialog box by saying "Hey Sharky, Voice Profile."
• To access something in the System Tray, try saying "Hey Sharky, System Tray."
• Speak the most recent Windows notification by saying "Hey Sharky, Notification."
• If you have a laptop and want to know the charge level of its battery, just say "Hey Sharky, Battery."
• On a web page, open the Custom Label dialog box for labeling an element by saying "Hey Sharky, Custom Label."
list end

 

Braille Math Editor

 

JAWS and Fusion currently supports reading Math equations on web pages that are displayed using MathML, or math equations in Microsoft Word documents inserted
using the native Word math format. You can navigate the individual elements of an equation using the Math Viewer, accessed by pressing ENTER from a web
page or INSERT+SPACEBAR followed by EQUALS from a Word document when focused on the equation. If JAWS braille translation is set to Unified English Braille
or United States English Grade 1 or Grade 2 output, math expressions are also shown on a braille display using Nemeth Braille format.

 

The new Braille Math Editor in JAWS now enables braille users in Windows 10 to input their own equations, and in Office 365, edit existing equations in
Word documents. To open the Math Editor, press the layered command INSERT+SPACEBAR followed by SHIFT+EQUALS (plus sign). Focus braille display users can
also press DOTS 3-4-6-7 CHORD.

 

When the Math Editor opens, focus is placed into an edit field where you can immediately begin typing the equation in Nemeth braille from your braille
display's keyboard. As you type, a preview pane below the edit field visually displays the equation so a sighted teacher or parent can review it. Once
you are finished inputting the math equation, press ENTER or choose the Accept button to close the Math Editor. If you are in Word, the equation you entered
is automatically inserted into the document at your current location. The equation is also copied to the Clipboard so you can paste it in other applications.

 

Opening the Math Editor while focused on a math equation in a Word document displays the existing equation in Nemeth Braille, allowing you to edit or replace
it. After making any changes and pressing ENTER to close the editor, the current equation in the document is replaced by the new or modified equation.

 

Note: After inserting or modifying an equation in Word from the Math Editor, the blinking cursor (dots 7 and 8) on the braille display always remains at
the beginning of the math content, even as you move by character with the LEFT and RIGHT ARROW keys. If you need to insert another line of math content,
first press the END key to move to the end of the current math content and then press ENTER.

 

While the Math Editor is opened, you have the following additional options:

 

list of 3 items
• Press CTRL+N to start a new equation.
• Press CTRL+P to preview the current equation in the Math Viewer. When finished, press ESC to return to the Math Editor.
• Press ALT+E to open the edit menu where you can copy your Nemeth Braille to the Clipboard using a specific format. MathML is the default format when
copying, however, depending on the application where you intend to paste the equation, you can also choose to copy your Nemeth Braille to LaTeX or Braille
ASCII. After choosing a format to copy to, paste the equation into the specific application before pressing ENTER or selecting Accept to close the Math
Editor as this always copies as MathML and will erase the current clipboard contents.
list end

 

To learn more about Nemeth Braille, check out this
Nemeth Tutorial
 which teaches this braille code beginning with the very basics up through advanced mathematics.

 

Other Changes
list of 12 items
• Resolved an issue where JAWS was not announcing the download status of files in Edge Chromium.
• Addressed an issue where the text of a link in a GMail message was not being read if it spanned multiple lines.
• When selecting a link or button on a web page that opens a modal dialog such as a calendar, resolved an issue where JAWS was reading the entire contents
of the dialog all at once as soon as it gained focus.
• JAWS now indicates when you move in and out of text in Google Docs that is marked as a suggestion.
• Expanded the description in Commands Search for setting a temporary PlaceMarker (CTRL+WINDOWS+K) to describe how this keystroke is used as part of selecting
text.
• Added the Copy Speech History to Clipboard keystroke (INSERT+SPACEBAR, CTRL+H) to Commands Search.
• Updated the description in Commands Search for the Read Address Bar keystroke (INSERT+A) so it can be found by searching for either "URL" or "address."
• If the Navigation Quick Key Manager is launched from an Outlook message, the Navigation Quick Key N for moving through messages in a thread, is now listed
so you can reassign it if necessary. The Navigation Quick Key Manager is located in the Run JAWS Manager dialog box (INSERT+F2).
• Resolved an issue where Navigation Quick Keys in Outlook messages would sometimes unexpectedly stop working until you moved focus away then back to the
message.
• When selecting text in Outlook messages for copying and pasting, addressed an issue where selection was not always working as expected, causing the wrong
text to be selected. This occurred most often in messages containing lists.
• Updated the INSERT+H help for Excel to list all of the latest JAWS hot keys.
• Added a new dictionary rule for "FYI" so JAWS no longer says the more verbose "for your information" when encountering this acronym.
list end

 


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Gerald Levy
 


Because there are already a number of Chromium-based RSS extensions out there, none of which I have been found to be accessible, I don't think MS has any plans to develop its own RSS feed extension for Edge.  But although IE is apparently being removed from Windows 10, it probably won't be removed fromWindows 7, which after all, MS would like to pretend no longer exists, and so is not worth devoting time and resources to removing IE from the operating system.    If worst comes to worst, I can switch to the RSS feed reader built into Thunderbird, which is at least accessible, if not as convenient as the one built into IE. Someone on another list recommended an accessible  stand-alone RSS feed reader program called  Miniflux.  Has anyone had experience with it?  


Gerald


 

On 5/20/2021 10:11 AM, Richard Turner wrote:

Have you contacted Microsoft Accessibility about this concern?

They have over a year left before they are ending IE.  Perhaps a better RSS reader is in the works?

I don’t know as I don’t use RSS.

 

 

 

 

Richard

"The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it."

- John Ruskin, 1819-1900

 

Web site: www.turner42.com

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 7:10 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

 

The big problem I have with Edge is that it does not offer an accessible RSS feed option or reader extension.  At least the RSS feed reader built into IE is completely JAWS accessible and is still the most convenient, and easiest to use feed reader I have found.  By ending support for IE without providing a comparably accessible feed reader in Edge, MS is demonstrating yet again its disregard for the special needs of its disabled customers.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/20/2021 9:44 AM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:

Microsoft wants everyone on their latest and greatest, so they can make more 
profit with everyone using edge.
So no doubt they will do as much as possible to cripple IE.
I remember when the press reported that someone inside MS released some 
windows XP code, leaving it vulnerable to hackers.
I have no doubt that MS leaked that XP code themselves to validate the 
ushering in of the next operating system.
Now MS has new ways of making money.
Glenn
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James English" <james13english@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 
15th 2022
 
 
Great, there is a website I use regularly which is an utter pain to
use with anything but IE. I use it for a shrinking number of sites
now, but I still don't get why Microsoft gives a flying fuck what web
browser I choose to use.
 
On 5/20/21, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote:
Is that why you are so pleased with yourself?
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Vogel
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June
15th 2022
 
 
Ignorance is bliss . . .
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 10:07 AM, Richard Turner wrote:
if there are any web sites still requiring IE or that work best with IE, they need to fix their web site;
-
And that's what they will absolutely have to do, or they will perish.  It is absolutely insane to have maintained any website as IE-compatible-only for years now given the market share IE has in the browser world.  The sure way to oblivion, and now the light of that oncoming train from the other end of the tunnel is blinding.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Richard Turner <richardturner42@...>
 

Have you contacted Microsoft Accessibility about this concern?

They have over a year left before they are ending IE.  Perhaps a better RSS reader is in the works?

I don’t know as I don’t use RSS.

 

 

 

 

Richard

"The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it."

- John Ruskin, 1819-1900

 

Web site: www.turner42.com

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 7:10 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

 

The big problem I have with Edge is that it does not offer an accessible RSS feed option or reader extension.  At least the RSS feed reader built into IE is completely JAWS accessible and is still the most convenient, and easiest to use feed reader I have found.  By ending support for IE without providing a comparably accessible feed reader in Edge, MS is demonstrating yet again its disregard for the special needs of its disabled customers.

 

Gerald

 

 

On 5/20/2021 9:44 AM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:

Microsoft wants everyone on their latest and greatest, so they can make more 
profit with everyone using edge.
So no doubt they will do as much as possible to cripple IE.
I remember when the press reported that someone inside MS released some 
windows XP code, leaving it vulnerable to hackers.
I have no doubt that MS leaked that XP code themselves to validate the 
ushering in of the next operating system.
Now MS has new ways of making money.
Glenn
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James English" <james13english@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 
15th 2022
 
 
Great, there is a website I use regularly which is an utter pain to
use with anything but IE. I use it for a shrinking number of sites
now, but I still don't get why Microsoft gives a flying fuck what web
browser I choose to use.
 
On 5/20/21, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote:
Is that why you are so pleased with yourself?
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Vogel
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June
15th 2022
 
 
Ignorance is bliss . . .
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Gerald Levy
 


The big problem I have with Edge is that it does not offer an accessible RSS feed option or reader extension.  At least the RSS feed reader built into IE is completely JAWS accessible and is still the most convenient, and easiest to use feed reader I have found.  By ending support for IE without providing a comparably accessible feed reader in Edge, MS is demonstrating yet again its disregard for the special needs of its disabled customers.


Gerald



On 5/20/2021 9:44 AM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:
Microsoft wants everyone on their latest and greatest, so they can make more 
profit with everyone using edge.
So no doubt they will do as much as possible to cripple IE.
I remember when the press reported that someone inside MS released some 
windows XP code, leaving it vulnerable to hackers.
I have no doubt that MS leaked that XP code themselves to validate the 
ushering in of the next operating system.
Now MS has new ways of making money.
Glenn

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James English" <james13english@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 
15th 2022


Great, there is a website I use regularly which is an utter pain to
use with anything but IE. I use it for a shrinking number of sites
now, but I still don't get why Microsoft gives a flying fuck what web
browser I choose to use.

On 5/20/21, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote:
Is that why you are so pleased with yourself?

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Vogel
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June
15th 2022


Ignorance is bliss . . .
















moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Richard Turner <richardturner42@...>
 

IE has been on the way out for years, and if there are any web sites still requiring IE or that work best with IE, they need to fix their web site; they are out of date.

 

It could be that Microsoft is trying to save people from themselves and eliminating a hole in their security by getting rid of their outdated software.  Or, more likely, they are tired of supporting it with its limitations.

 

Maybe those who want IE could pool their money and hire someone to do an open source version….

 

Frankly, I’m glad to see it go.

 

 

 

Richard

"The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it."

- John Ruskin, 1819-1900

 

Web site: www.turner42.com


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 08:43 AM, William Vandervest wrote:
A question, does this mean thet I E will be actually taken off our machines, and if so, is there a way to either prevent it or put it back?
-
That's precisely what "retired" means.  Just like Edge original is soon to be completely retired.  That doesn't mean that traces of it that Windows use don't still exist, but it means that the product that the end user was using won't.

I have little doubt that someone will cadge together something like "IE Lite" or similar, much like there have been myriad variants on Outlook Express once it was retired.  But there will be nothing official from Microsoft.  The whole point of formally retiring something is to never have to deal with it again, and as quickly as possible.  Retirements of the various versions of Windows are invariably "slow," while retirements of smaller scale products occur more rapidly and with generally no attempt to be graceful about it.  A drop-dead date is announced well enough in advance to allow users to find alternatives, and when it arrives, they're done with that product.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide

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