Date   

moderated Re: May Update for, JAWS2021, Build 2105.53, Download Link + What's New

Adrian Spratt
 

Alison,

This note from Vispero’s April update should help:

 

• By default, Voice Assistant listens for the word "sharky" before accepting any commands. Change this wake up default from the JAWS Utility Menu by choosing Voice Assistant, and then selecting Settings. We strongly recommend changing the wake word to "Hey Sharky."

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of CJ &AA MAY
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 3:34 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: May Update for, JAWS2021, Build 2105.53, Download Link + What's New

 

Thanks for sharing this; very impressive.

In order to enable to Hey Sharkie commands, is there something you need to do first or is this a default? I seem to remember writing some weeks ago about a Jaws Ghost and being told how to switch this feature off, but I can now see it might be useful at times.

Alison

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: 19 May 2021 18:48
To: JList <main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: May Update for, JAWS2021, Build 2105.53, Download Link + What's New

 

Hi All,

 

Below is the direct download link for the May J2021 build, 2105.53, update + what's new in this release.

 

32 & 64 Bit Download Link:

 

 

What's New:

 

Enhancements in JAWS 2021.2105.53 (May 2021)

 

The following is a list of improvements made between the April 2021 release and the May 2021 update.

 

Easier Navigation Through Email Threads in Outlook

 

It is quite common, particularly in a work or school environment, for email messages to include several people, resulting in lengthy message threads as
participants reply and add to the conversation. When opening an email that contains a thread of messages, including replies or forwards, it can be time
consuming to read through the thread with JAWS or Fusion using the ARROW keys to locate particular responses as you need to move through all of the header
information for each message.

 

To make this easier, you can now use the N or SHIFT+N Navigation Quick Keys to quickly move to and place focus at the beginning of the next or previous
message in an open email thread, skipping over all of the header information. As you navigate with these commands, JAWS and Fusion reads who the message
is from, the date it was sent, and the first line. If you determine this is not the message in the thread you were looking for, continue using N or SHIFT+N
until you reach the message you want. While reading a particular message in the thread, pressing ALT+1 or ALT+2 now announces the sender or date  of the
message at your current location. To review sender and date info for the entire email, press CTRL+HOME to move back to the top before pressing ALT+1 or
ALT+2.

 

For users of the Focus braille display, you can set a NAV rocker to move through messages in an open email thread. While focused in an email, press the
NAV Mode button above the NAV rocker you want to set to cycle through the available navigation modes until "Message" is selected. If you are using an older
Focus display that includes Wiz Wheels, press down on the wheel to select the mode. If focus moves away from the message, the navigation mode defaults
back to Line.

 

Note: Currently, this feature is only available while reading an email and not when editing a message. Additionally, while currently limited to messages
containing replies and forwards from Outlook, we will continue to improve this feature over time to support emails from other sources like Gmail and iOS.

 

Voice Assistant Improvements

 

In the initial 2021 release, we introduced Voice Assistant, a new way to interact with JAWS in Windows 10. Voice Assistant offers a convenient option for
quickly performing various JAWS commands using natural speech instead of memorizing specific keystrokes. Since its introduction, we have received numerous
requests from customers wanting to be able to access more JAWS features by voice in order to increase productivity.

 

Some JAWS features you can now access by using voice commands include:

 

list of 16 items
• Selecting Text, especially blocks of text, has never been easier. Just locate the spot where you wish to begin selecting and say "Hey Sharky, Start Selection."
Then navigate to the location where selection should end and say "Hey Sharky, Finish Selection." You did it! At that point, all text between the two locations
will be highlighted. You can confirm using the SHIFT+INSERT+DOWN ARROW Command to verify you got it all. This works on Web Pages, in Documents, and even
in Emails.
• Working with the JAWS speech history without remembering any keystrokes is now even easier. Try any of the following:
list of 3 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, Show Speech History"
• "Hey Sharky, Copy Speech History to Clipboard"
• "Hey Sharky, Clear Speech History"
list end nesting level 1
• Working with Technical Support just got easier. Have you ever been asked to get the version information for your software or operating system? Try this
out:
list of 2 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, Virtualize Version Info"
• "Hey Sharky, Copy Version Info to Clipboard"
list end nesting level 1
• You can now ask JAWS to help virtualize a control or window, or even copy them directly to the Clipboard. For example, go to the JAWS About dialog box,
and try the following:
list of 4 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, Virtualize Window"
• "Hey Sharky, Copy Window"
• "Hey Sharky, Virtualize Control"
• "Hey Sharky, Copy Control"
list end nesting level 1
• When navigating Word documents and Outlook messages, you can use Voice Assistant to work with various elements like headings, tables, and graphics. Try
the following:
list of 3 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, List Headings"
• "Hey Sharky, Next Table"
• "Hey Sharky, Next Graphic"
list end nesting level 1
• When editing a Word document or Outlook message, you can use Voice Assistant to move to Spelling or Grammatical errors. For Example, try:
list of 2 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, Next Spelling Error"
• "Hey Sharky, Next Grammatical Error"
list end nesting level 1
• While reading a message in Outlook containing several replies or forwards, you can now say "Hey Sharky, Next Message" or "Previous Message." You will
skip the headings and get right to the various replies within that email.
• When focused on math content in Word that you wish to navigate, you can now say "Hey Sharky, Math Viewer." This opens the JAWS Math Viewer where you
can explore the current equation.
• To edit a math equation using the new Braille Math Editor, move to the equation and say "Hey Sharky, Math Editor."
• Toggle the Braille or Text Viewers on or off by saying "Hey Sharky, Braille Viewer" or "Text Viewer."
• Start or stop a JAWS Tandem session by saying "Hey Sharky, Tandem."
• Open the Select a Voice Profile dialog box by saying "Hey Sharky, Voice Profile."
• To access something in the System Tray, try saying "Hey Sharky, System Tray."
• Speak the most recent Windows notification by saying "Hey Sharky, Notification."
• If you have a laptop and want to know the charge level of its battery, just say "Hey Sharky, Battery."
• On a web page, open the Custom Label dialog box for labeling an element by saying "Hey Sharky, Custom Label."
list end

 

Braille Math Editor

 

JAWS and Fusion currently supports reading Math equations on web pages that are displayed using MathML, or math equations in Microsoft Word documents inserted
using the native Word math format. You can navigate the individual elements of an equation using the Math Viewer, accessed by pressing ENTER from a web
page or INSERT+SPACEBAR followed by EQUALS from a Word document when focused on the equation. If JAWS braille translation is set to Unified English Braille
or United States English Grade 1 or Grade 2 output, math expressions are also shown on a braille display using Nemeth Braille format.

 

The new Braille Math Editor in JAWS now enables braille users in Windows 10 to input their own equations, and in Office 365, edit existing equations in
Word documents. To open the Math Editor, press the layered command INSERT+SPACEBAR followed by SHIFT+EQUALS (plus sign). Focus braille display users can
also press DOTS 3-4-6-7 CHORD.

 

When the Math Editor opens, focus is placed into an edit field where you can immediately begin typing the equation in Nemeth braille from your braille
display's keyboard. As you type, a preview pane below the edit field visually displays the equation so a sighted teacher or parent can review it. Once
you are finished inputting the math equation, press ENTER or choose the Accept button to close the Math Editor. If you are in Word, the equation you entered
is automatically inserted into the document at your current location. The equation is also copied to the Clipboard so you can paste it in other applications.

 

Opening the Math Editor while focused on a math equation in a Word document displays the existing equation in Nemeth Braille, allowing you to edit or replace
it. After making any changes and pressing ENTER to close the editor, the current equation in the document is replaced by the new or modified equation.

 

Note: After inserting or modifying an equation in Word from the Math Editor, the blinking cursor (dots 7 and 8) on the braille display always remains at
the beginning of the math content, even as you move by character with the LEFT and RIGHT ARROW keys. If you need to insert another line of math content,
first press the END key to move to the end of the current math content and then press ENTER.

 

While the Math Editor is opened, you have the following additional options:

 

list of 3 items
• Press CTRL+N to start a new equation.
• Press CTRL+P to preview the current equation in the Math Viewer. When finished, press ESC to return to the Math Editor.
• Press ALT+E to open the edit menu where you can copy your Nemeth Braille to the Clipboard using a specific format. MathML is the default format when
copying, however, depending on the application where you intend to paste the equation, you can also choose to copy your Nemeth Braille to LaTeX or Braille
ASCII. After choosing a format to copy to, paste the equation into the specific application before pressing ENTER or selecting Accept to close the Math
Editor as this always copies as MathML and will erase the current clipboard contents.
list end

 

To learn more about Nemeth Braille, check out this
Nemeth Tutorial
 which teaches this braille code beginning with the very basics up through advanced mathematics.

 

Other Changes
list of 12 items
• Resolved an issue where JAWS was not announcing the download status of files in Edge Chromium.
• Addressed an issue where the text of a link in a GMail message was not being read if it spanned multiple lines.
• When selecting a link or button on a web page that opens a modal dialog such as a calendar, resolved an issue where JAWS was reading the entire contents
of the dialog all at once as soon as it gained focus.
• JAWS now indicates when you move in and out of text in Google Docs that is marked as a suggestion.
• Expanded the description in Commands Search for setting a temporary PlaceMarker (CTRL+WINDOWS+K) to describe how this keystroke is used as part of selecting
text.
• Added the Copy Speech History to Clipboard keystroke (INSERT+SPACEBAR, CTRL+H) to Commands Search.
• Updated the description in Commands Search for the Read Address Bar keystroke (INSERT+A) so it can be found by searching for either "URL" or "address."
• If the Navigation Quick Key Manager is launched from an Outlook message, the Navigation Quick Key N for moving through messages in a thread, is now listed
so you can reassign it if necessary. The Navigation Quick Key Manager is located in the Run JAWS Manager dialog box (INSERT+F2).
• Resolved an issue where Navigation Quick Keys in Outlook messages would sometimes unexpectedly stop working until you moved focus away then back to the
message.
• When selecting text in Outlook messages for copying and pasting, addressed an issue where selection was not always working as expected, causing the wrong
text to be selected. This occurred most often in messages containing lists.
• Updated the INSERT+H help for Excel to list all of the latest JAWS hot keys.
• Added a new dictionary rule for "FYI" so JAWS no longer says the more verbose "for your information" when encountering this acronym.
list end

 


moderated Re: May Update for, JAWS2021, Build 2105.53, Download Link + What's New

CJ &AA MAY
 

Thanks for sharing this; very impressive.

In order to enable to Hey Sharkie commands, is there something you need to do first or is this a default? I seem to remember writing some weeks ago about a Jaws Ghost and being told how to switch this feature off, but I can now see it might be useful at times.

Alison

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: 19 May 2021 18:48
To: JList <main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: May Update for, JAWS2021, Build 2105.53, Download Link + What's New

 

Hi All,

 

Below is the direct download link for the May J2021 build, 2105.53, update + what's new in this release.

 

32 & 64 Bit Download Link:

 

 

What's New:

 

Enhancements in JAWS 2021.2105.53 (May 2021)

 

The following is a list of improvements made between the April 2021 release and the May 2021 update.

 

Easier Navigation Through Email Threads in Outlook

 

It is quite common, particularly in a work or school environment, for email messages to include several people, resulting in lengthy message threads as
participants reply and add to the conversation. When opening an email that contains a thread of messages, including replies or forwards, it can be time
consuming to read through the thread with JAWS or Fusion using the ARROW keys to locate particular responses as you need to move through all of the header
information for each message.

 

To make this easier, you can now use the N or SHIFT+N Navigation Quick Keys to quickly move to and place focus at the beginning of the next or previous
message in an open email thread, skipping over all of the header information. As you navigate with these commands, JAWS and Fusion reads who the message
is from, the date it was sent, and the first line. If you determine this is not the message in the thread you were looking for, continue using N or SHIFT+N
until you reach the message you want. While reading a particular message in the thread, pressing ALT+1 or ALT+2 now announces the sender or date  of the
message at your current location. To review sender and date info for the entire email, press CTRL+HOME to move back to the top before pressing ALT+1 or
ALT+2.

 

For users of the Focus braille display, you can set a NAV rocker to move through messages in an open email thread. While focused in an email, press the
NAV Mode button above the NAV rocker you want to set to cycle through the available navigation modes until "Message" is selected. If you are using an older
Focus display that includes Wiz Wheels, press down on the wheel to select the mode. If focus moves away from the message, the navigation mode defaults
back to Line.

 

Note: Currently, this feature is only available while reading an email and not when editing a message. Additionally, while currently limited to messages
containing replies and forwards from Outlook, we will continue to improve this feature over time to support emails from other sources like Gmail and iOS.

 

Voice Assistant Improvements

 

In the initial 2021 release, we introduced Voice Assistant, a new way to interact with JAWS in Windows 10. Voice Assistant offers a convenient option for
quickly performing various JAWS commands using natural speech instead of memorizing specific keystrokes. Since its introduction, we have received numerous
requests from customers wanting to be able to access more JAWS features by voice in order to increase productivity.

 

Some JAWS features you can now access by using voice commands include:

 

list of 16 items
• Selecting Text, especially blocks of text, has never been easier. Just locate the spot where you wish to begin selecting and say "Hey Sharky, Start Selection."
Then navigate to the location where selection should end and say "Hey Sharky, Finish Selection." You did it! At that point, all text between the two locations
will be highlighted. You can confirm using the SHIFT+INSERT+DOWN ARROW Command to verify you got it all. This works on Web Pages, in Documents, and even
in Emails.
• Working with the JAWS speech history without remembering any keystrokes is now even easier. Try any of the following:
list of 3 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, Show Speech History"
• "Hey Sharky, Copy Speech History to Clipboard"
• "Hey Sharky, Clear Speech History"
list end nesting level 1
• Working with Technical Support just got easier. Have you ever been asked to get the version information for your software or operating system? Try this
out:
list of 2 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, Virtualize Version Info"
• "Hey Sharky, Copy Version Info to Clipboard"
list end nesting level 1
• You can now ask JAWS to help virtualize a control or window, or even copy them directly to the Clipboard. For example, go to the JAWS About dialog box,
and try the following:
list of 4 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, Virtualize Window"
• "Hey Sharky, Copy Window"
• "Hey Sharky, Virtualize Control"
• "Hey Sharky, Copy Control"
list end nesting level 1
• When navigating Word documents and Outlook messages, you can use Voice Assistant to work with various elements like headings, tables, and graphics. Try
the following:
list of 3 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, List Headings"
• "Hey Sharky, Next Table"
• "Hey Sharky, Next Graphic"
list end nesting level 1
• When editing a Word document or Outlook message, you can use Voice Assistant to move to Spelling or Grammatical errors. For Example, try:
list of 2 items nesting level 1
• "Hey Sharky, Next Spelling Error"
• "Hey Sharky, Next Grammatical Error"
list end nesting level 1
• While reading a message in Outlook containing several replies or forwards, you can now say "Hey Sharky, Next Message" or "Previous Message." You will
skip the headings and get right to the various replies within that email.
• When focused on math content in Word that you wish to navigate, you can now say "Hey Sharky, Math Viewer." This opens the JAWS Math Viewer where you
can explore the current equation.
• To edit a math equation using the new Braille Math Editor, move to the equation and say "Hey Sharky, Math Editor."
• Toggle the Braille or Text Viewers on or off by saying "Hey Sharky, Braille Viewer" or "Text Viewer."
• Start or stop a JAWS Tandem session by saying "Hey Sharky, Tandem."
• Open the Select a Voice Profile dialog box by saying "Hey Sharky, Voice Profile."
• To access something in the System Tray, try saying "Hey Sharky, System Tray."
• Speak the most recent Windows notification by saying "Hey Sharky, Notification."
• If you have a laptop and want to know the charge level of its battery, just say "Hey Sharky, Battery."
• On a web page, open the Custom Label dialog box for labeling an element by saying "Hey Sharky, Custom Label."
list end

 

Braille Math Editor

 

JAWS and Fusion currently supports reading Math equations on web pages that are displayed using MathML, or math equations in Microsoft Word documents inserted
using the native Word math format. You can navigate the individual elements of an equation using the Math Viewer, accessed by pressing ENTER from a web
page or INSERT+SPACEBAR followed by EQUALS from a Word document when focused on the equation. If JAWS braille translation is set to Unified English Braille
or United States English Grade 1 or Grade 2 output, math expressions are also shown on a braille display using Nemeth Braille format.

 

The new Braille Math Editor in JAWS now enables braille users in Windows 10 to input their own equations, and in Office 365, edit existing equations in
Word documents. To open the Math Editor, press the layered command INSERT+SPACEBAR followed by SHIFT+EQUALS (plus sign). Focus braille display users can
also press DOTS 3-4-6-7 CHORD.

 

When the Math Editor opens, focus is placed into an edit field where you can immediately begin typing the equation in Nemeth braille from your braille
display's keyboard. As you type, a preview pane below the edit field visually displays the equation so a sighted teacher or parent can review it. Once
you are finished inputting the math equation, press ENTER or choose the Accept button to close the Math Editor. If you are in Word, the equation you entered
is automatically inserted into the document at your current location. The equation is also copied to the Clipboard so you can paste it in other applications.

 

Opening the Math Editor while focused on a math equation in a Word document displays the existing equation in Nemeth Braille, allowing you to edit or replace
it. After making any changes and pressing ENTER to close the editor, the current equation in the document is replaced by the new or modified equation.

 

Note: After inserting or modifying an equation in Word from the Math Editor, the blinking cursor (dots 7 and 8) on the braille display always remains at
the beginning of the math content, even as you move by character with the LEFT and RIGHT ARROW keys. If you need to insert another line of math content,
first press the END key to move to the end of the current math content and then press ENTER.

 

While the Math Editor is opened, you have the following additional options:

 

list of 3 items
• Press CTRL+N to start a new equation.
• Press CTRL+P to preview the current equation in the Math Viewer. When finished, press ESC to return to the Math Editor.
• Press ALT+E to open the edit menu where you can copy your Nemeth Braille to the Clipboard using a specific format. MathML is the default format when
copying, however, depending on the application where you intend to paste the equation, you can also choose to copy your Nemeth Braille to LaTeX or Braille
ASCII. After choosing a format to copy to, paste the equation into the specific application before pressing ENTER or selecting Accept to close the Math
Editor as this always copies as MathML and will erase the current clipboard contents.
list end

 

To learn more about Nemeth Braille, check out this
Nemeth Tutorial
 which teaches this braille code beginning with the very basics up through advanced mathematics.

 

Other Changes
list of 12 items
• Resolved an issue where JAWS was not announcing the download status of files in Edge Chromium.
• Addressed an issue where the text of a link in a GMail message was not being read if it spanned multiple lines.
• When selecting a link or button on a web page that opens a modal dialog such as a calendar, resolved an issue where JAWS was reading the entire contents
of the dialog all at once as soon as it gained focus.
• JAWS now indicates when you move in and out of text in Google Docs that is marked as a suggestion.
• Expanded the description in Commands Search for setting a temporary PlaceMarker (CTRL+WINDOWS+K) to describe how this keystroke is used as part of selecting
text.
• Added the Copy Speech History to Clipboard keystroke (INSERT+SPACEBAR, CTRL+H) to Commands Search.
• Updated the description in Commands Search for the Read Address Bar keystroke (INSERT+A) so it can be found by searching for either "URL" or "address."
• If the Navigation Quick Key Manager is launched from an Outlook message, the Navigation Quick Key N for moving through messages in a thread, is now listed
so you can reassign it if necessary. The Navigation Quick Key Manager is located in the Run JAWS Manager dialog box (INSERT+F2).
• Resolved an issue where Navigation Quick Keys in Outlook messages would sometimes unexpectedly stop working until you moved focus away then back to the
message.
• When selecting text in Outlook messages for copying and pasting, addressed an issue where selection was not always working as expected, causing the wrong
text to be selected. This occurred most often in messages containing lists.
• Updated the INSERT+H help for Excel to list all of the latest JAWS hot keys.
• Added a new dictionary rule for "FYI" so JAWS no longer says the more verbose "for your information" when encountering this acronym.
list end

 


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

James English
 

Great, there is a website I use regularly which is an utter pain to
use with anything but IE. I use it for a shrinking number of sites
now, but I still don't get why Microsoft gives a flying fuck what web
browser I choose to use.

On 5/20/21, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@cableone.net> wrote:
Is that why you are so pleased with yourself?

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Vogel
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June
15th 2022


Ignorance is bliss . . .






moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Glenn / Lenny
 


Is that why you are so pleased with yourself?
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Ignorance is bliss . . .


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Ignorance is bliss . . .


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Glenn / Lenny
 


When I look in my windows 7 updates, I see security patches coming in still, including security essentials.
And my browsers have a couple times given me warnings about sites that came up in a web search and kept them from opening.
And BTW, being a so called professional does not mean you are always right.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 11:08 PM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:
7 is safe and still valid.
-
This sentiment is not shared, particularly the first part, by anyone who's an IT professional.

I really don't care what you, or any given individual, choose to do in your own world.  That really is entirely your choice, as you have to live with it and its consequences.

It is never, ever "safe" to use an out-of-support version of Windows.   It's just the opposite of "safe."  You may never have any issue, and very often that's just the proverbial "dumb luck."
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Hi,

At least older versions will run happily on Windows 7, that I agree.

Several things will force Vispero to make statements like the one I outlined:

  1. Software distribution channels: hypothetically, it is possible to package JAWS as a Windows Store application but only if JAWS can install accessibility display driver without triggering a reboot. This is the reason why JAWS cannot be used in Windows Sandbox and as a portable screen reader on the go unless the target system is restarted to finish installing the display driver.
  2. Intel raises its hands and declares that ARM64 processors are the future: this possibility is becoming clearer each day, as evidenced by software and hardware vendors embracing ARM processors. For now it might be possible to run JAWS under Windows 10 on ARM, but if Microsoft and Intel insists that everyone must use ARM, then there’s really no choice. Intel x86 is a strong seller, but ARM is already doing things better, and soon, either Intel or AMD will either move onto ARM or combine x86 with ARM in one chip. Windows 7 doesn’t support ARM processors – Windows 8.x and later does, with proper optimizations coming years later.
  3. Ransomware causes Windows 7 to fall on its knees: we came very close to that this month when parts of the oil industry came to a halt because one company, despite warnings from Microsoft, was using outdated software, which might have triggered all sorts of investigations afterwards. If ransomware and other malware can cause an application to buckle and thereby compromising data, how much would it be if someone decides to write the next WannaCry that will penetrate Windows 7 itself? But then as an often repeated saying goes, “history repeats itself,” and I expect IT security defenses to become a hot topic once more people are vaccinated and return to work.

There are other possibilities, something I think we might as well dedicate a new thread for them.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 7:59 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

The only way they can insist is to make a product that refuses to run on 7, but if someone still has 2019, then they are fit for life with 7 if they wish.

Glenn

----- Original Message -----

From: Joseph Lee

Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 9:55 PM

Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Hi,

I think it did to some extent, as some of the notable changes (including the just released May update for JAWS 2021) benefits users of productivity software that are still supported on Windows 7 to some extent. As I said though, there will indeed come a time when Vispero will insist that users upgrade to Windows 10, the earliest time that statement can be made will be 2023 when support for Windows 8.1 ends and extended security updates (ESU’s) for Windows 7 ends for enterprises.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 7:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Well even Jaws 2019 does all 7 needs it to do, I'm sure none of the Jaws updates over the past couple years have benefited 7 users.

Glenn

----- Original Message -----

From: Joseph Lee

Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 9:48 PM

Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Hi,

There will come a time when Vispero will say, “sorry Windows 7/8.x users, you must now use Windows 10 in order to use JAWS”. I expect this statement will be made as early as 2023.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 7:38 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:34 PM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:

MS has left it [Win7] alone.

-
This is no advantage.  The definition of "out of support" means "left alone, zero, nada, zip updates, changes, security patches, anything."

But I'm not going to do the, "You simply don't use unsupported software if you have a lick of common sense," speech again.  A word to the wise should have long ago been sufficient.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 11:08 PM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:
7 is safe and still valid.
-
This sentiment is not shared, particularly the first part, by anyone who's an IT professional.

I really don't care what you, or any given individual, choose to do in your own world.  That really is entirely your choice, as you have to live with it and its consequences.

It is never, ever "safe" to use an out-of-support version of Windows.   It's just the opposite of "safe."  You may never have any issue, and very often that's just the proverbial "dumb luck."
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Glenn / Lenny
 


The only need for backward compatibility is for new software on an old system.
Browsers are the only thing that could be a problem, and I can't see that becoming an issue for a very long time.
I still use OE for eMail with no security concerns, as I'm mindful of how I use it and my browsers still have good security, except for IE, which I only use for a couple things.
But if people have a need for new software, then they might need windows 10.
I have windows 10 installed in a virtual machine inside my windows 7, and if there is ever anything I need 10 for, I could use that, but it rarely gets opened, as I mentioned, 7 is safe and still valid.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:48 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
There will come a time when Vispero will say, “sorry Windows 7/8.x users, you must now use Windows 10 in order to use JAWS”. I expect this statement will be made as early as 2023.
-
I fully expect this, too.  Right now, unless one is using an old version of JAWS on an unsupported version of Windows (which would be XP or 7, at the moment), if you have backward compatibility in a more recent version of JAWS that's very likely an accident, not by design.

There is always an effort at backward compatibility, usually with the last OS version, and generally only for a relatively short period, 2 years at most, after a given version of Windows goes out of support.  You, as an NVDA developer (and any software developer, not just screen reader developers know this, too), know that it is neither economically feasible nor even reasonable to try to maintain backward compatibility "perpetually."  And why would anyone do that?  Users in institutional settings, business or educational, are what drives the development cycle and those organizations don't stand still.  They keep up with what's in support, from the operating system up through all application programs, if they're being responsible.

That's why I am genuinely appalled that there actually do still exist systems that are so tightly tied to long-dead IE-only conventions.  That's grossly irresponsible on the part of the makers of this stuff.  And for some who were "hanging on by a thread" for some years, this change will put them out of business, and the users of their products will be in a massive lurch.

Hence the reason I've already said that the one and only thing anyone should be doing is transition planning.  If your IE-Only product makers tell you, when you ask, that a non-IE-tied version is in the works prior to June 2022, then you can relax.  If they don't, then it's up to you to find an alternative in the next year, before the carpet is pulled out from under you.  And no one can say that this is a surprise, or at least all the readers here.  And heaven knows any software house had darned well better have someone with their "ear at the door" of Microsoft and listening to what's being said, and acting accordingly.  Whistling past the graveyard won't work here.  You'll land in a grave yourself.

I expect that third-party software support for Windows 8.1 will vanish very quickly once it goes out of support in 2023, and not just by Vispero.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:48 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
There will come a time when Vispero will say, “sorry Windows 7/8.x users, you must now use Windows 10 in order to use JAWS”. I expect this statement will be made as early as 2023.
-
I fully expect this, too.  Right now, unless one is using an old version of JAWS on an unsupported version of Windows (which would be XP or 7, at the moment), if you have backward compatibility in a more recent version of JAWS that's very likely an accident, not by design.

There is always an effort at backward compatibility, usually with the last OS version, and generally only for a relatively short period, 2 years at most, after a given version of Windows goes out of support.  You, as an NVDA developer (and any software developer, not just screen reader developers know this, too), know that it is neither economically feasible nor even reasonable to try to maintain backward compatibility "perpetually."  And why would anyone do that?  Users in institutional settings, business or educational, are what drives the development cycle and those organizations don't stand still.  They keep up with what's in support, from the operating system up through all application programs, if they're being responsible.

That's why I am genuinely appalled that there actually do still exist systems that are so tightly tied to long-dead IE-only conventions.  That's grossly irresponsible on the part of the makers of this stuff.  And for some who were "hanging on by a thread" for some years, this change will put them out of business, and the users of their products will be in a massive lurch.

Hence the reason I've already said that the one and only thing anyone should be doing is transition planning.  If your IE-Only product makers tell you, when you ask, that a non-IE-tied version is in the works prior to June 2022, then you can relax.  If they don't, then it's up to you to find an alternative in the next year, before the carpet is pulled out from under you.  And no one can say that this is a surprise, or at least all the readers here.  And heaven knows any software house had darned well better have someone with their "ear at the door" of Microsoft and listening to what's being said, and acting accordingly.  Whistling past the graveyard won't work here.  You'll land in a grave yourself.

I expect that third-party software support for Windows 8.1 will vanish very quickly once it goes out of support in 2023, and not just by Vispero.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Glenn / Lenny
 


The only way they can insist is to make a product that refuses to run on 7, but if someone still has 2019, then they are fit for life with 7 if they wish.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Hi,

I think it did to some extent, as some of the notable changes (including the just released May update for JAWS 2021) benefits users of productivity software that are still supported on Windows 7 to some extent. As I said though, there will indeed come a time when Vispero will insist that users upgrade to Windows 10, the earliest time that statement can be made will be 2023 when support for Windows 8.1 ends and extended security updates (ESU’s) for Windows 7 ends for enterprises.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 7:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Well even Jaws 2019 does all 7 needs it to do, I'm sure none of the Jaws updates over the past couple years have benefited 7 users.

Glenn

----- Original Message -----

From: Joseph Lee

Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 9:48 PM

Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Hi,

There will come a time when Vispero will say, “sorry Windows 7/8.x users, you must now use Windows 10 in order to use JAWS”. I expect this statement will be made as early as 2023.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 7:38 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:34 PM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:

MS has left it [Win7] alone.

-
This is no advantage.  The definition of "out of support" means "left alone, zero, nada, zip updates, changes, security patches, anything."

But I'm not going to do the, "You simply don't use unsupported software if you have a lick of common sense," speech again.  A word to the wise should have long ago been sufficient.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Hi,

I think it did to some extent, as some of the notable changes (including the just released May update for JAWS 2021) benefits users of productivity software that are still supported on Windows 7 to some extent. As I said though, there will indeed come a time when Vispero will insist that users upgrade to Windows 10, the earliest time that statement can be made will be 2023 when support for Windows 8.1 ends and extended security updates (ESU’s) for Windows 7 ends for enterprises.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 7:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Well even Jaws 2019 does all 7 needs it to do, I'm sure none of the Jaws updates over the past couple years have benefited 7 users.

Glenn

----- Original Message -----

From: Joseph Lee

Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 9:48 PM

Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Hi,

There will come a time when Vispero will say, “sorry Windows 7/8.x users, you must now use Windows 10 in order to use JAWS”. I expect this statement will be made as early as 2023.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 7:38 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:34 PM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:

MS has left it [Win7] alone.

-
This is no advantage.  The definition of "out of support" means "left alone, zero, nada, zip updates, changes, security patches, anything."

But I'm not going to do the, "You simply don't use unsupported software if you have a lick of common sense," speech again.  A word to the wise should have long ago been sufficient.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Glenn / Lenny
 


Well even Jaws 2019 does all 7 needs it to do, I'm sure none of the Jaws updates over the past couple years have benefited 7 users.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Hi,

There will come a time when Vispero will say, “sorry Windows 7/8.x users, you must now use Windows 10 in order to use JAWS”. I expect this statement will be made as early as 2023.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 7:38 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:34 PM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:

MS has left it [Win7] alone.

-
This is no advantage.  The definition of "out of support" means "left alone, zero, nada, zip updates, changes, security patches, anything."

But I'm not going to do the, "You simply don't use unsupported software if you have a lick of common sense," speech again.  A word to the wise should have long ago been sufficient.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Hi,

There will come a time when Vispero will say, “sorry Windows 7/8.x users, you must now use Windows 10 in order to use JAWS”. I expect this statement will be made as early as 2023.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 7:38 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:34 PM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:

MS has left it [Win7] alone.

-
This is no advantage.  The definition of "out of support" means "left alone, zero, nada, zip updates, changes, security patches, anything."

But I'm not going to do the, "You simply don't use unsupported software if you have a lick of common sense," speech again.  A word to the wise should have long ago been sufficient.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:34 PM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:
MS has left it [Win7] alone.
-
This is no advantage.  The definition of "out of support" means "left alone, zero, nada, zip updates, changes, security patches, anything."

But I'm not going to do the, "You simply don't use unsupported software if you have a lick of common sense," speech again.  A word to the wise should have long ago been sufficient.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

Glenn / Lenny
 


That is why I still like 7, MS has left it alone.
I have found some things work best with IE, for example, my router configuration page, some of the buttons and links don't work with other browsers, but they do with IE.
Glenn
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:18 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
At least two people pointed out on Win10 Forum that they need Internet Explorer,
-
If that is true, and I believe it is, then they had better be raising holy hell with "the powers that be," because it's just not going to be there.

It is sad, very sad, that there are hold-outs that have been making IE compatible only stuff long past the time Microsoft clearly said that it was on borrowed time.  That clock is ticking very loudly now.

Anyone who thinks the statement, "But I neeeeeed it!," is going to make any difference whatsoever has either not paid attention to the history of computing or is very new to computing.  Things do simply go away.  And when you're told they are going away, you make definite plans to work with that fact.

Any entity using something tightly coupled to IE is either going to have to change that in the next year or have catastrophic failure in June 2022.  It really is that simple.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:18 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
At least two people pointed out on Win10 Forum that they need Internet Explorer,
-
If that is true, and I believe it is, then they had better be raising holy hell with "the powers that be," because it's just not going to be there.

It is sad, very sad, that there are hold-outs that have been making IE compatible only stuff long past the time Microsoft clearly said that it was on borrowed time.  That clock is ticking very loudly now.

Anyone who thinks the statement, "But I neeeeeed it!," is going to make any difference whatsoever has either not paid attention to the history of computing or is very new to computing.  Things do simply go away.  And when you're told they are going away, you make definite plans to work with that fact.

Any entity using something tightly coupled to IE is either going to have to change that in the next year or have catastrophic failure in June 2022.  It really is that simple.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:12 PM, Loy wrote:
The blog said support would end, it did not say it would be removed.
-
The phrase, and I quote, "go out of support and be retired."

For those of us in the IT biz, "retired" has a very clear and specific meaning:  It be gone.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Hi,

At least two people pointed out on Win10 Forum that they need Internet Explorer, and I advised them to look into IE mode in Microsoft Edge designed for scenarios like accessing web applications that rely on IE and its rendering engine for full functionality.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of kylee@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 7:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Um … that means that it will no longer be updated, causing increasing holes in security.

Kylee

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Loy
Sent: Thursday, 20 May 2021 2:13 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

The blog said support would end, it did not say it would be removed.

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 8:41 PM

Subject: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Hello All,

          Even though this message is not related to JAWS, the impact of this change is so important, and it is so likely to affect quite a few members who still use IE routinely, the information needs to be shared.  My intention is information sharing only, as there's really nothing to discuss.  This is a done deal.

See the article on techcommunity.microsoft.com entitled, Internet Explorer 11 desktop app retirement FAQ.

Those in business settings where they are forced to still use IE for specific sites also should pass this information along to "the powers that be" so that they can be aware of the change that's coming.

You need to start making plans to transition away from IE now, if you have not done so already.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Hi,

My guess is that internet Explorer will become invisible, but some of the underlying technologies such as MSHTML module will continue to be made available. I’m sure Vispero will clarify this, but JAWS will continue to interact with controls powered by IE’s rendering engine.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Loy
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 7:13 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

The blog said support would end, it did not say it would be removed.

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 8:41 PM

Subject: IE being removed from Win 10 20H2 and later, effective June 15th 2022

 

Hello All,

          Even though this message is not related to JAWS, the impact of this change is so important, and it is so likely to affect quite a few members who still use IE routinely, the information needs to be shared.  My intention is information sharing only, as there's really nothing to discuss.  This is a done deal.

See the article on techcommunity.microsoft.com entitled, Internet Explorer 11 desktop app retirement FAQ.

Those in business settings where they are forced to still use IE for specific sites also should pass this information along to "the powers that be" so that they can be aware of the change that's coming.

You need to start making plans to transition away from IE now, if you have not done so already.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide

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