Date   

moderated Re: Ponderings

Sandra Streeter
 

Here, here!

 

 

Sandra

 

"May I never get too busy in my own affairs that I fail to respond to the needs of others with kindness and compassion."

Thomas Jefferson

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Turner
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 04:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Ponderings

 

I wonder why it is when someone states a strong opinion about how to do X, Y, or Z, that people have to jump on that person.

Threads often stay alive long after useful information has been communicated because some people do not like the way one person phrased their response.  Or, they sounded too harsh, or they just do it differently than you.

 

I’m adopting a rule for myself to never respond to an email on a list until I have thought through my reply and waited at least 10 minutes, unless it is a simple case of directing someone to a resource.

 

The delete key is a wonderous tool.

 

 

 

Richard

 

Ralph's Observation:  It is a mistake to allow any mechanical object<>to realize that you are in a hurry.

 

 

My web site, www.turner42.com

 

 

 




AVG logo

This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com



moderated Re: Appropriate Channels of Communication

David Diamond
 

Well, myself I find nothing wrong with Brian’s posts, no condescending to anyone, no holier then thou attitude. Now, I’ve had to work with some guide dog trainers that acted like the sun rose and set with them and the student knew nothing.  I would not let them train a stuffed dog much less a living one.   

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: April 6, 2021 2:07 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Appropriate Channels of Communication

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 04:24 PM, Loy wrote:

If you have any concerns about the list, posts received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list.

-
Loy,

Thanks very much for posting this.  There was a time when it would not have been necessary even to mention it, but alas . . .
--

Brian


moderated Re: email clients

Don Walls
 

Dan, you said it perfectly.  None of us is perfect and we need to use a bit of tolerance if a word or phrase strikes us as wrong.  And thanks for your bit of humour re ‘Three Blind Mice’.  Humour much appreciated as this thread has grown increasingly tedious.
 
Don
 

From: Dan Longmore
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:12 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients
 

Can we exercise a little grace and realize that Brian , like all of us, may not always use the best phrases or language.  That’s the problem with threads and e-mail.  So much is missed including body language, not that I could see that anyway. 😊

I as a vote that counts for one vote to move on and thank Brian and others for their input to this thread.

Now let’s see what is that song that so offends me today, “Three Blind mice”.  How come they pick on the mice.

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ekstrand, Pamela A. -ND
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 5:07 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Umm, who is the one calling names? 

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rick Mladek via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 4:56 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Hi Randy,

 

I’m writing to apologize for my losing my patience with that jerk Brian Vogel again. He attacks blind people and I’ve witnessed this on different groups and what is as disgusting is those who defend him because he is valuable to the group, as they say. He may know about JFW and being he is not blind is what I cannot excuse and stay quiet. He is sighted and attacks those as yourself, blind, because of asking a question or addressing his sighted comments towards some specific topic. He has attacked women who are blind on other groups and I went off on him and he left the group. I really do not know why he is such a follower of the blind but his disrespect is just what I must stand up and fight him and his ways as well as those that defend him just because they need him to continue to help their technological needs. I could go on about that idiot but I’ll go and just want to let you know I was defending you and his attack on you as he does to many on these groups. If we do not put an end to his personal attacks, then who will? I’m sorry if I over-stepped my boundries but just know I was on your side trying to get that jerk to shut up.

 

Always,

Rick

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:41 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

As always there are different points of view. But telling a blind person they are basiclly incompatent becuase something is written in a large bold box is not cool. I am surprised you think it is ok.

On 4/6/2021 8:34 AM, Don Walls wrote:

Rick, your message seems quite over-the-top.  I am blind and certainly am not offended by Brian’s comments.  As for Randy’s messages, they seem to follow a pattern of his persistent criticism of Brian and I can’t wonder that Brian is fed up with them.  Brian responds frequently to questions on this list and is generous with his time.  We are blind.  It doesn’t give us the mandate to trash others mindlessly with rants.

 

Don

 

From: Rick Mladek

Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 8:01 AM

To: main@jfw.groups.io

Subject: Re: email clients

 

Brian,

 

It is an obvious pattern with you that you believe that just because you are sighted that you have the ability to talk down towards those who do not. For the administrator of this list, please shut this person up now for he has been this way on other lists/grops previously and has for the better, removed himself when those, as myself, step up and no longer will accept his rudeness, discriminative communication and outright condemnation towards those blind. Brian, do us a favor and go start your own list and again remove yourself from this. You again believe you are above those blind and I will not stand for this on this sight no more than I went up against you on the prevous site you removed yourself from. YOu have no ability to be cordial to those whom may not have as much knowledge towards a problem to have it corrected and although you may believe yourself superior, your the most ignorant individual most of us on these list groups have ever encountered. Remove yourself again and do us all a favor. I will not stand for you to be this way towards those in need and more, towards those blind seeking assistance. For the Administrator, I request this person be removed without further delay.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io mailto:main@jfw.groups.io On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 10:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM, Randy Barnett wrote:

Once again you are totally wrong in your assumptions.

-
Randy, please stop your incessant preaching at me.  I have been around screen readers and screen reader users for well over a decade now.

I cannot help it if someone does not bother to vet the actual content of a page they post.  And my describing something in visual terms, as there are many here who did at one time have vision or still have some residual vision, cannot and should not be considered an insult to anyone who doesn't.

I don't give a damn about your opinions.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


moderated Re: JAWS with Drop Box

mike mcglashon
 

That is interesting because,

My version doesn’t read the labels for the edit boxes, just says “edit”

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Turner
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 6:05 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS with Drop Box

 

I have just done this in the last couple of days.

Open dropbox on your computer.

Arrow down to the folder you want to share.

Use the applications key, or shift+f10 and select share.

You will have a few boxes, the main two you want are whose email address you want to share it with, if you want them to have full editing rights, etc., and a message box to tell them anything you think they need to know, and tab to send and hit enter.

It’s done.

 

 

 

Richard

 

Ralph's Observation:  It is a mistake to allow any mechanical object<>to realize that you are in a hurry.

 

 

My web site, www.turner42.com

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marianne Denning
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 1:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: JAWS with Drop Box

 

How do you share a Drop Box folder with other people? I am running the latest version of JAWS and Windows 365. I would also like to know how to do this with Windows 2019.


moderated Re: test

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 06:06 PM, David Pearson wrote:
Lost all of my contact/groups when I switched over from Live Mail to Thunderbird.
-
If you have not uninstalled WLM you should be able to export your contacts from WLM, preferably to a comma separated values (CSV) file, then use the import function in Thunderbird to get 'em all back.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


moderated Re: test

Dan Longmore
 

Got the message.

Take care, sorry for your extra work.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Pearson
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 6:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: test

Hello Jaws group:


Lost all of my contact/groups when I switched over from Live Mail to Thunderbird.


Would someone please respond to this message so can add address to my
T-bird address book?


Thank you,




David S. Pearson


moderated Re: test

Richard Turner
 

You passed the test. Well done.



Richard

Ralph's Observation: It is a mistake to allow any mechanical object<>to realize that you are in a hurry.


My web site, www.turner42.com

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Pearson
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:06 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: test

Hello Jaws group:


Lost all of my contact/groups when I switched over from Live Mail to Thunderbird.


Would someone please respond to this message so can add  address to my
T-bird address book?


Thank you,




David S. Pearson


moderated Re: test

 

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


moderated test

David Pearson
 

Hello Jaws group:


Lost all of my contact/groups when I switched over from Live Mail to Thunderbird.


Would someone please respond to this message so can add  address to my T-bird address book?


Thank you,




David S. Pearson


moderated Re: JAWS with Drop Box

Richard Turner
 

I have just done this in the last couple of days.

Open dropbox on your computer.

Arrow down to the folder you want to share.

Use the applications key, or shift+f10 and select share.

You will have a few boxes, the main two you want are whose email address you want to share it with, if you want them to have full editing rights, etc., and a message box to tell them anything you think they need to know, and tab to send and hit enter.

It’s done.

 

 

 

Richard

 

Ralph's Observation:  It is a mistake to allow any mechanical object<>to realize that you are in a hurry.

 

 

My web site, www.turner42.com

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marianne Denning
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 1:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: JAWS with Drop Box

 

How do you share a Drop Box folder with other people? I am running the latest version of JAWS and Windows 365. I would also like to know how to do this with Windows 2019.


moderated Re: email clients

 

Brian,

 

I understand about security updates and their importance and expect it's time to move to a newer version of Microsoft Office. I'm not a fan of subscription models and their continuous updates and believe the best security for one's computer is smart practices for how it's used. Now I just need to decide which perpetual version of Office I can still obtain at a reasonable price.

 

Alan lemly

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2021 12:05 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:11 AM, Alan Lemly wrote:

don't believe I've received any support from Microsoft during that time including before 10/13/20 when it was still supported.

-
Support is not tech support, or at least that's not what's meant.

Microsoft (or any other software maker) supporting a product means that they do what's necessary to keep it safe to use as circumstances change.  The most important part of software support is security patches.

I am not telling you, or anyone else, what they may or may not choose to do.  But you have not been getting any significant maintenance and patching since last October, and using things like e-mail clients and web browsers that are out of support is using a wide open attack surface as time marches on.

I can't say that I've never, ever used anything that is out-of-support but what I have used does not have any contact with cyberspace.  That's not possible with an email client or web browser.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


moderated Re: [External] : Re: JAWS Update

Don Mauck
 

Do you think a repair might help? Is this on a Laptop or Desktop.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of T. Civitello
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:49 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: [External] : Re: JAWS Update

I just finished the update and my Jaws speech is so bad I can hardly understand it. The volume was so low I had to go to the settings and turn it up to 85 percent and now the volume jumps up and down, and Reid doesn't sound like Reid. Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Sohl
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:03 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: JAWS Update

Hi we just got the JAWS update today and it looks like the update fixes some bog issues.


moderated Re: JAWS Update

T. Civitello
 

I just finished the update and my Jaws speech is so bad I can hardly understand it. The volume was so low I had to go to the settings and turn it up to 85 percent and now the volume jumps up and down, and Reid doesn't sound like Reid. Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Sohl
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:03 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: JAWS Update

Hi we just got the JAWS update today and it looks like the update fixes
some bog issues.


moderated Re: [External] : Re: email clients

Gerald Levy
 


And exactly who is the list owner?  James Honya used to be the owner, but he seems to have disappeared.  Does this list even have a moderator or someone else in charge right now?


Gerald



On 4/6/2021 4:24 PM, Loy wrote:

If you have any concerns about the list, posts received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw+owner@groups.io.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: [External] : Re: email clients

When a blind individual is attacked, by a person not blind, I have every right to defend and go after this individual. You, have nothing to do with this so it is you who has no right to be part. Go find something to do and do not have this something you find to occupy your time something other than protecting one as this individual. How dare you be such as you are to protect one that is and has been such a troubled one in every blind group when this person is not blind himself yet will attack one blind for not knowing and openly asking for help. How dare you Don...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don Mauck
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:32 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: [External] : Re: email clients

 

Rick, you are not the “all knowing,” for all blind people. If you want to criticize someone, do it privately. We’ve become very good at putting hate on someone just because we don’t like what they say, how they speak or because you don’t like their opinions, this list should not be about that.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rick Mladek
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 12:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: [External] : Re: email clients

 

I will correct you for I had many individuals email me off list saying it was better that person was gone. Do not think it is ok for your having some knowledge to attack, abuse and ridicule those who come to these lists for help, not to be condemned for seeking the assistance of which these groups are first and for. As I said before and I will hold on firmly, if you want to be part of a group that is willing to treat those within as he does then go and form your own narcissistic group where it will be expected to be treated as Brian continuously treats others. This is unaccepable no matter what anyone knows. He is on these sites for some unknown reason and if it is to simply brag on what is known then move onto your own list. Otherwise, do not defend the abuser no matter how you all feel he helps you. Do not afford yourself to be a defendant of the obviously guilt ridden abuser.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 12:18 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Ricky, you should keep your facts straight, Brian recently decided to unsubscribe from the Windows 10 list and the majority of list members felt this was a great loss.

You seem to be on a personal mission to convince others that just because you don't like his approach nobody should. Interestingly enough once again the majority of people on the Windows 10 list didn't seem to have a big problem with his messages, Brian can be very direct and he may question why somebody asks a question for which it is extremely easy to find an answer and he is definitely correct in saying that there are a few individuals who are just too lazy to take notes and hence ask the same simple things over and over or they ask because they don't want to go out of their comfort zone and try to look up how to do something by looking it up online.

If you like I could send you instructions on how to set up a filter so all Brian's emails go to your trash folder and this way you don't need to experience high blood pressure or waste time to bad mouth him everytime he writes something you don't like.

I by the way am also completely blind, but if you can't accept the fact that not everybody has your personality then maybe you are the one who should start your own list because as other spointed out, most of us are not offended.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rick Mladek
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 9:08 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

The point is simple, I am and he has attacked individuals on other lists previously. Who cares what he knows. I will not accept his rudeness, attacks etc. towards any blind person no matter their knowledge. He has no right to do this and has been forced off of other groups due to his total lack of respect for anyone. No, you do not know this person and he surely should be removed from tjhis list, no matter what he believes he knows or otherwise. Do not defend those obviously guilty and if you believe you need to, then as I told him, go start your own group list for rude people and go attack one another. He went after Randy and I have no idea how you do not see this.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don Walls
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:35 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Rick, your message seems quite over-the-top.  I am blind and certainly am not offended by Brian’s comments.  As for Randy’s messages, they seem to follow a pattern of his persistent criticism of Brian and I can’t wonder that Brian is fed up with them.  Brian responds frequently to questions on this list and is generous with his time.  We are blind.  It doesn’t give us the mandate to trash others mindlessly with rants.

 

Don

 

From: Rick Mladek

Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 8:01 AM

Subject: Re: email clients

 

Brian,

 

It is an obvious pattern with you that you believe that just because you are sighted that you have the ability to talk down towards those who do not. For the administrator of this list, please shut this person up now for he has been this way on other lists/grops previously and has for the better, removed himself when those, as myself, step up and no longer will accept his rudeness, discriminative communication and outright condemnation towards those blind. Brian, do us a favor and go start your own list and again remove yourself from this. You again believe you are above those blind and I will not stand for this on this sight no more than I went up against you on the prevous site you removed yourself from. YOu have no ability to be cordial to those whom may not have as much knowledge towards a problem to have it corrected and although you may believe yourself superior, your the most ignorant individual most of us on these list groups have ever encountered. Remove yourself again and do us all a favor. I will not stand for you to be this way towards those in need and more, towards those blind seeking assistance. For the Administrator, I request this person be removed without further delay.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 10:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM, Randy Barnett wrote:

Once again you are totally wrong in your assumptions.

-
Randy, please stop your incessant preaching at me.  I have been around screen readers and screen reader users for well over a decade now.

I cannot help it if someone does not bother to vet the actual content of a page they post.  And my describing something in visual terms, as there are many here who did at one time have vision or still have some residual vision, cannot and should not be considered an insult to anyone who doesn't.

I don't give a damn about your opinions.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


moderated Re: email clients

Randy Barnett <blindmansbluff09@...>
 


Dont let it get to you. Basic respect for people is a dieing thing.

On 4/6/2021 2:13 PM, Rick Mladek wrote:
> > Now I’m the bad guy lol > > > > *From:* main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Randy > Barnett *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 5:11 PM *To:* > main@jfw.groups.io *Subject:* Re: email clients > > > > I have butted heads with him for years now... I left the win 10 group > because of him. Nice to know he is finally gone from there. Someone > needs to stand up and say enough to demeaning talk. > > On 4/6/2021 1:55 PM, Rick Mladek wrote: > > Hi Randy, > > > > I’m writing to apologize for my losing my patience with that jerk > Brian Vogel again. He attacks blind people and I’ve witnessed this on > different groups and what is as disgusting is those who defend him > because he is valuable to the group, as they say. He may know about > JFW and being he is not blind is what I cannot excuse and stay quiet. > He is sighted and attacks those as yourself, blind, because of asking > a question or addressing his sighted comments towards some specific > topic. He has attacked women who are blind on other groups and I went > off on him and he left the group. I really do not know why he is such > a follower of the blind but his disrespect is just what I must stand > up and fight him and his ways as well as those that defend him just > because they need him to continue to help their technological needs. > I could go on about that idiot but I’ll go and just want to let you > know I was defending you and his attack on you as he does to many on > these groups. If we do not put an end to his personal attacks, then > who will? I’m sorry if I over-stepped my boundries but just know I > was on your side trying to get that jerk to shut up. > > > > Always, > > Rick > > > > *From:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io> > <main@jfw.groups.io> <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Randy > Barnett *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:41 AM *To:* > main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io> *Subject:* Re: email > clients > > > > As always there are different points of view. But telling a blind > person they are basiclly incompatent becuase something is written in > a large bold box is not cool. I am surprised you think it is ok. > > On 4/6/2021 8:34 AM, Don Walls wrote: > > Rick, your message seems quite over-the-top. I am blind and > certainly am not offended by Brian’s comments. As for Randy’s > messages, they seem to follow a pattern of his persistent criticism > of Brian and I can’t wonder that Brian is fed up with them. Brian > responds frequently to questions on this list and is generous with > his time. We are blind. It doesn’t give us the mandate to trash > others mindlessly with rants. > > > > Don > > > > *From:*Rick Mladek > > *Sent:*Tuesday, April 6, 2021 8:01 AM > > *To:*main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io> > > *Subject:*Re: email clients > > > > Brian, > > > > It is an obvious pattern with you that you believe that just because > you are sighted that you have the ability to talk down towards those > who do not. For the administrator of this list, please shut this > person up now for he has been this way on other lists/grops > previously and has for the better, removed himself when those, as > myself, step up and no longer will accept his rudeness, > discriminative communication and outright condemnation towards those > blind. Brian, do us a favor and go start your own list and again > remove yourself from this. You again believe you are above those > blind and I will not stand for this on this sight no more than I went > up against you on the prevous site you removed yourself from. YOu > have no ability to be cordial to those whom may not have as much > knowledge towards a problem to have it corrected and although you may > believe yourself superior, your the most ignorant individual most of > us on these list groups have ever encountered. Remove yourself again > and do us all a favor. I will not stand for you to be this way > towards those in need and more, towards those blind seeking > assistance. For the Administrator, I request this person be removed > without further delay. > > > > > > *From:*main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io> > <main@jfw.groups.io> <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Brian > Vogel *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 10:47 AM *To:* > main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>


moderated Re: email clients

Rick Mladek
 

Now I’m the bad guy lol

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 5:11 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

I have butted heads with him for years now... I left the win 10 group because of him. Nice to know he is finally gone from there. Someone needs to stand up and say enough to demeaning talk.

On 4/6/2021 1:55 PM, Rick Mladek wrote:

Hi Randy,

 

I’m writing to apologize for my losing my patience with that jerk Brian Vogel again. He attacks blind people and I’ve witnessed this on different groups and what is as disgusting is those who defend him because he is valuable to the group, as they say. He may know about JFW and being he is not blind is what I cannot excuse and stay quiet. He is sighted and attacks those as yourself, blind, because of asking a question or addressing his sighted comments towards some specific topic. He has attacked women who are blind on other groups and I went off on him and he left the group. I really do not know why he is such a follower of the blind but his disrespect is just what I must stand up and fight him and his ways as well as those that defend him just because they need him to continue to help their technological needs. I could go on about that idiot but I’ll go and just want to let you know I was defending you and his attack on you as he does to many on these groups. If we do not put an end to his personal attacks, then who will? I’m sorry if I over-stepped my boundries but just know I was on your side trying to get that jerk to shut up.

 

Always,

Rick

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:41 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

As always there are different points of view. But telling a blind person they are basiclly incompatent becuase something is written in a large bold box is not cool. I am surprised you think it is ok.

On 4/6/2021 8:34 AM, Don Walls wrote:

Rick, your message seems quite over-the-top.  I am blind and certainly am not offended by Brian’s comments.  As for Randy’s messages, they seem to follow a pattern of his persistent criticism of Brian and I can’t wonder that Brian is fed up with them.  Brian responds frequently to questions on this list and is generous with his time.  We are blind.  It doesn’t give us the mandate to trash others mindlessly with rants.

 

Don

 

From: Rick Mladek

Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 8:01 AM

Subject: Re: email clients

 

Brian,

 

It is an obvious pattern with you that you believe that just because you are sighted that you have the ability to talk down towards those who do not. For the administrator of this list, please shut this person up now for he has been this way on other lists/grops previously and has for the better, removed himself when those, as myself, step up and no longer will accept his rudeness, discriminative communication and outright condemnation towards those blind. Brian, do us a favor and go start your own list and again remove yourself from this. You again believe you are above those blind and I will not stand for this on this sight no more than I went up against you on the prevous site you removed yourself from. YOu have no ability to be cordial to those whom may not have as much knowledge towards a problem to have it corrected and although you may believe yourself superior, your the most ignorant individual most of us on these list groups have ever encountered. Remove yourself again and do us all a favor. I will not stand for you to be this way towards those in need and more, towards those blind seeking assistance. For the Administrator, I request this person be removed without further delay.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 10:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM, Randy Barnett wrote:

Once again you are totally wrong in your assumptions.

-
Randy, please stop your incessant preaching at me.  I have been around screen readers and screen reader users for well over a decade now.

I cannot help it if someone does not bother to vet the actual content of a page they post.  And my describing something in visual terms, as there are many here who did at one time have vision or still have some residual vision, cannot and should not be considered an insult to anyone who doesn't.

I don't give a damn about your opinions.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


moderated Re: email clients

Dan Longmore
 

Can we exercise a little grace and realize that Brian , like all of us, may not always use the best phrases or language.  That’s the problem with threads and e-mail.  So much is missed including body language, not that I could see that anyway. 😊

I as a vote that counts for one vote to move on and thank Brian and others for their input to this thread.

Now let’s see what is that song that so offends me today, “Three Blind mice”.  How come they pick on the mice.

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ekstrand, Pamela A. -ND
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 5:07 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Umm, who is the one calling names? 

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rick Mladek via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 4:56 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Hi Randy,

 

I’m writing to apologize for my losing my patience with that jerk Brian Vogel again. He attacks blind people and I’ve witnessed this on different groups and what is as disgusting is those who defend him because he is valuable to the group, as they say. He may know about JFW and being he is not blind is what I cannot excuse and stay quiet. He is sighted and attacks those as yourself, blind, because of asking a question or addressing his sighted comments towards some specific topic. He has attacked women who are blind on other groups and I went off on him and he left the group. I really do not know why he is such a follower of the blind but his disrespect is just what I must stand up and fight him and his ways as well as those that defend him just because they need him to continue to help their technological needs. I could go on about that idiot but I’ll go and just want to let you know I was defending you and his attack on you as he does to many on these groups. If we do not put an end to his personal attacks, then who will? I’m sorry if I over-stepped my boundries but just know I was on your side trying to get that jerk to shut up.

 

Always,

Rick

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:41 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

As always there are different points of view. But telling a blind person they are basiclly incompatent becuase something is written in a large bold box is not cool. I am surprised you think it is ok.

On 4/6/2021 8:34 AM, Don Walls wrote:

Rick, your message seems quite over-the-top.  I am blind and certainly am not offended by Brian’s comments.  As for Randy’s messages, they seem to follow a pattern of his persistent criticism of Brian and I can’t wonder that Brian is fed up with them.  Brian responds frequently to questions on this list and is generous with his time.  We are blind.  It doesn’t give us the mandate to trash others mindlessly with rants.

 

Don

 

From: Rick Mladek

Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 8:01 AM

Subject: Re: email clients

 

Brian,

 

It is an obvious pattern with you that you believe that just because you are sighted that you have the ability to talk down towards those who do not. For the administrator of this list, please shut this person up now for he has been this way on other lists/grops previously and has for the better, removed himself when those, as myself, step up and no longer will accept his rudeness, discriminative communication and outright condemnation towards those blind. Brian, do us a favor and go start your own list and again remove yourself from this. You again believe you are above those blind and I will not stand for this on this sight no more than I went up against you on the prevous site you removed yourself from. YOu have no ability to be cordial to those whom may not have as much knowledge towards a problem to have it corrected and although you may believe yourself superior, your the most ignorant individual most of us on these list groups have ever encountered. Remove yourself again and do us all a favor. I will not stand for you to be this way towards those in need and more, towards those blind seeking assistance. For the Administrator, I request this person be removed without further delay.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 10:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM, Randy Barnett wrote:

Once again you are totally wrong in your assumptions.

-
Randy, please stop your incessant preaching at me.  I have been around screen readers and screen reader users for well over a decade now.

I cannot help it if someone does not bother to vet the actual content of a page they post.  And my describing something in visual terms, as there are many here who did at one time have vision or still have some residual vision, cannot and should not be considered an insult to anyone who doesn't.

I don't give a damn about your opinions.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


moderated Re: email clients

Rick Mladek
 

My appologies, that was to be direct but I made a mistake and sent direct through the list. I appologize and I’m not arguing against my thoughts towards him when one was attacked and now you all attack me for standing up for him as I would for any other blind person on this list he attacks. Again, my mistake putting this through the list and not direct to Randy.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ekstrand, Pamela A. -ND
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 5:07 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Umm, who is the one calling names? 

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rick Mladek via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 4:56 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

Hi Randy,

 

I’m writing to apologize for my losing my patience with that jerk Brian Vogel again. He attacks blind people and I’ve witnessed this on different groups and what is as disgusting is those who defend him because he is valuable to the group, as they say. He may know about JFW and being he is not blind is what I cannot excuse and stay quiet. He is sighted and attacks those as yourself, blind, because of asking a question or addressing his sighted comments towards some specific topic. He has attacked women who are blind on other groups and I went off on him and he left the group. I really do not know why he is such a follower of the blind but his disrespect is just what I must stand up and fight him and his ways as well as those that defend him just because they need him to continue to help their technological needs. I could go on about that idiot but I’ll go and just want to let you know I was defending you and his attack on you as he does to many on these groups. If we do not put an end to his personal attacks, then who will? I’m sorry if I over-stepped my boundries but just know I was on your side trying to get that jerk to shut up.

 

Always,

Rick

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:41 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

As always there are different points of view. But telling a blind person they are basiclly incompatent becuase something is written in a large bold box is not cool. I am surprised you think it is ok.

On 4/6/2021 8:34 AM, Don Walls wrote:

Rick, your message seems quite over-the-top.  I am blind and certainly am not offended by Brian’s comments.  As for Randy’s messages, they seem to follow a pattern of his persistent criticism of Brian and I can’t wonder that Brian is fed up with them.  Brian responds frequently to questions on this list and is generous with his time.  We are blind.  It doesn’t give us the mandate to trash others mindlessly with rants.

 

Don

 

From: Rick Mladek

Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 8:01 AM

Subject: Re: email clients

 

Brian,

 

It is an obvious pattern with you that you believe that just because you are sighted that you have the ability to talk down towards those who do not. For the administrator of this list, please shut this person up now for he has been this way on other lists/grops previously and has for the better, removed himself when those, as myself, step up and no longer will accept his rudeness, discriminative communication and outright condemnation towards those blind. Brian, do us a favor and go start your own list and again remove yourself from this. You again believe you are above those blind and I will not stand for this on this sight no more than I went up against you on the prevous site you removed yourself from. YOu have no ability to be cordial to those whom may not have as much knowledge towards a problem to have it corrected and although you may believe yourself superior, your the most ignorant individual most of us on these list groups have ever encountered. Remove yourself again and do us all a favor. I will not stand for you to be this way towards those in need and more, towards those blind seeking assistance. For the Administrator, I request this person be removed without further delay.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 10:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM, Randy Barnett wrote:

Once again you are totally wrong in your assumptions.

-
Randy, please stop your incessant preaching at me.  I have been around screen readers and screen reader users for well over a decade now.

I cannot help it if someone does not bother to vet the actual content of a page they post.  And my describing something in visual terms, as there are many here who did at one time have vision or still have some residual vision, cannot and should not be considered an insult to anyone who doesn't.

I don't give a damn about your opinions.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


moderated Re: email clients

Randy Barnett <blindmansbluff09@...>
 

I have butted heads with him for years now... I left the win 10 group because of him. Nice to know he is finally gone from there. Someone needs to stand up and say enough to demeaning talk.

On 4/6/2021 1:55 PM, Rick Mladek wrote:

Hi Randy,

 

I’m writing to apologize for my losing my patience with that jerk Brian Vogel again. He attacks blind people and I’ve witnessed this on different groups and what is as disgusting is those who defend him because he is valuable to the group, as they say. He may know about JFW and being he is not blind is what I cannot excuse and stay quiet. He is sighted and attacks those as yourself, blind, because of asking a question or addressing his sighted comments towards some specific topic. He has attacked women who are blind on other groups and I went off on him and he left the group. I really do not know why he is such a follower of the blind but his disrespect is just what I must stand up and fight him and his ways as well as those that defend him just because they need him to continue to help their technological needs. I could go on about that idiot but I’ll go and just want to let you know I was defending you and his attack on you as he does to many on these groups. If we do not put an end to his personal attacks, then who will? I’m sorry if I over-stepped my boundries but just know I was on your side trying to get that jerk to shut up.

 

Always,

Rick

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:41 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

As always there are different points of view. But telling a blind person they are basiclly incompatent becuase something is written in a large bold box is not cool. I am surprised you think it is ok.

On 4/6/2021 8:34 AM, Don Walls wrote:

Rick, your message seems quite over-the-top.  I am blind and certainly am not offended by Brian’s comments.  As for Randy’s messages, they seem to follow a pattern of his persistent criticism of Brian and I can’t wonder that Brian is fed up with them.  Brian responds frequently to questions on this list and is generous with his time.  We are blind.  It doesn’t give us the mandate to trash others mindlessly with rants.

 

Don

 

From: Rick Mladek

Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 8:01 AM

Subject: Re: email clients

 

Brian,

 

It is an obvious pattern with you that you believe that just because you are sighted that you have the ability to talk down towards those who do not. For the administrator of this list, please shut this person up now for he has been this way on other lists/grops previously and has for the better, removed himself when those, as myself, step up and no longer will accept his rudeness, discriminative communication and outright condemnation towards those blind. Brian, do us a favor and go start your own list and again remove yourself from this. You again believe you are above those blind and I will not stand for this on this sight no more than I went up against you on the prevous site you removed yourself from. YOu have no ability to be cordial to those whom may not have as much knowledge towards a problem to have it corrected and although you may believe yourself superior, your the most ignorant individual most of us on these list groups have ever encountered. Remove yourself again and do us all a favor. I will not stand for you to be this way towards those in need and more, towards those blind seeking assistance. For the Administrator, I request this person be removed without further delay.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 10:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM, Randy Barnett wrote:

Once again you are totally wrong in your assumptions.

-
Randy, please stop your incessant preaching at me.  I have been around screen readers and screen reader users for well over a decade now.

I cannot help it if someone does not bother to vet the actual content of a page they post.  And my describing something in visual terms, as there are many here who did at one time have vision or still have some residual vision, cannot and should not be considered an insult to anyone who doesn't.

I don't give a damn about your opinions.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel


moderated Appropriate Channels of Communication

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 04:24 PM, Loy wrote:
If you have any concerns about the list, posts received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list.
-
Loy,

Thanks very much for posting this.  There was a time when it would not have been necessary even to mention it, but alas . . .
--

Brian

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