Rick, your message seems quite over-the-top.  I am blind and certainly am not offended by Brian’s comments.  As for Randy’s messages, they seem to follow a pattern of his persistent criticism of Brian and I can’t wonder that Brian is fed up with them.  Brian responds frequently to questions on this list and is generous with his time.  We are blind.  It doesn’t give us the mandate to trash others mindlessly with rants.

 

Don

 

From: Rick Mladek

Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 8:01 AM

To: main@jfw.groups.io

Subject: Re: email clients

 

Brian,

 

It is an obvious pattern with you that you believe that just because you are sighted that you have the ability to talk down towards those who do not. For the administrator of this list, please shut this person up now for he has been this way on other lists/grops previously and has for the better, removed himself when those, as myself, step up and no longer will accept his rudeness, discriminative communication and outright condemnation towards those blind. Brian, do us a favor and go start your own list and again remove yourself from this. You again believe you are above those blind and I will not stand for this on this sight no more than I went up against you on the prevous site you removed yourself from. YOu have no ability to be cordial to those whom may not have as much knowledge towards a problem to have it corrected and although you may believe yourself superior, your the most ignorant individual most of us on these list groups have ever encountered. Remove yourself again and do us all a favor. I will not stand for you to be this way towards those in need and more, towards those blind seeking assistance. For the Administrator, I request this person be removed without further delay.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 10:47 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM, Randy Barnett wrote:

Once again you are totally wrong in your assumptions.

-
Randy, please stop your incessant preaching at me.  I have been around screen readers and screen reader users for well over a decade now.

I cannot help it if someone does not bother to vet the actual content of a page they post.  And my describing something in visual terms, as there are many here who did at one time have vision or still have some residual vision, cannot and should not be considered an insult to anyone who doesn't.

I don't give a damn about your opinions.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel

Brian,

It is an obvious pattern with you that you believe that just because you are sighted that you have the ability to talk down towards those who do not. For the administrator of this list, please shut this person up now for he has been this way on other lists/grops previously and has for the better, removed himself when those, as myself, step up and no longer will accept his rudeness, discriminative communication and outright condemnation towards those blind. Brian, do us a favor and go start your own list and again remove yourself from this. You again believe you are above those blind and I will not stand for this on this sight no more than I went up against you on the prevous site you removed yourself from. YOu have no ability to be cordial to those whom may not have as much knowledge towards a problem to have it corrected and although you may believe yourself superior, your the most ignorant individual most of us on these list groups have ever encountered. Remove yourself again and do us all a favor. I will not stand for you to be this way towards those in need and more, towards those blind seeking assistance. For the Administrator, I request this person be removed without further delay.

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM, Randy Barnett wrote:

Once again you are totally wrong in your assumptions.

-
Randy, please stop your incessant preaching at me.  I have been around screen readers and screen reader users for well over a decade now.

I cannot help it if someone does not bother to vet the actual content of a page they post.  And my describing something in visual terms, as there are many here who did at one time have vision or still have some residual vision, cannot and should not be considered an insult to anyone who doesn't.

I don't give a damn about your opinions.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM, Randy Barnett wrote:

Once again you are totally wrong in your assumptions.

-
Randy, please stop your incessant preaching at me.  I have been around screen readers and screen reader users for well over a decade now.

I cannot help it if someone does not bother to vet the actual content of a page they post.  And my describing something in visual terms, as there are many here who did at one time have vision or still have some residual vision, cannot and should not be considered an insult to anyone who doesn't.

I don't give a damn about your opinions.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM, Randy Barnett wrote:

Once again you are totally wrong in your assumptions.

-
Randy, please stop your incessant preaching at me.  I have been around screen readers and screen reader users for well over a decade now.

I cannot help it if someone does not bother to vet the actual content of a page they post.  And my describing something in visual terms, as there are many here who did at one time have vision or still have some residual vision, cannot and should not be considered an insult to anyone who doesn't.

I don't give a damn about your opinions.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 11:27 PM, Randy Barnett wrote:

You do realize "in a big, bold box" means nothing to blind people right?

-
Sorry, Mr. Barnett, but how it's presented generally carries some formatting weight that screen readers also pick up on.

It's the first freaking thing on the page.  If MS malformed it, that is unfortunate, but I'm not about to dig into page HTML to determine that.  When there is a big, bold notice at the outset of a page I would presume, and generally am right, that screen reader users will hear that right up front just the way I see it right up front.

So, if "that's not cool" to you that's perfectly OK with me.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel

Hello,

I’m using the most recent version of windows10, Google Chrome and Jaws2021. I’m on a web site where I wanted to reset my password. I was able to getan email sent to me. There is a link the jaws reads “link reset password”. I press enter on the link and it doesn’t do anything. Above that line is a graphic and some words and the same with the line below. I pressed enter on each line and nothing happens. I used the Jaws cursor and clicked on each line. Nothing happens. I talked to the sites support and they couldn’t help me due to security. Has anyone encountered this problem? To me their email is not setup for a screen reader to recognize the correct link. The site is match.com. ON the site it has a link saying if you are using a screen use this link to help navigate the site. Well that sort of works yet there are some spots I cannot get the data to be entered as Jaws cannot get to the field. Yet I get the message saying all data has not be entered. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Kevin

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2021 9:53 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: email clients

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 10:35 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/get-help-and-support-for-outlook-2010-df1ceeb5-075f-4ec1-ade8-8893c35731bd

-
That states, in a big, bold box at its very outset:  

Support for Office 2010 ended on October 13, 2020

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 05:08 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

so long as you are accessing the email with an application and not using them through their web site.

-
But my point, along with offering a couple of email client options, is that using webmail is precisely what should be done, and far more often.

The days when webmail was mostly inaccessible is long gone.  There seems to be a great deal of "slow on the uptake" of this fact.  And there are a number of folks who post here, on the NVDA Group, and on the Win10 for Screen Reader Users Group who use Gmail webmail as their primary email access method.  If significant gyrations were necessary on a routine basis that would not be the case.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 05:08 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

so long as you are accessing the email with an application and not using them through their web site.

-
But my point, along with offering a couple of email client options, is that using webmail is precisely what should be done, and far more often.

The days when webmail was mostly inaccessible is long gone.  There seems to be a great deal of "slow on the uptake" of this fact.  And there are a number of folks who post here, on the NVDA Group, and on the Win10 for Screen Reader Users Group who use Gmail webmail as their primary email access method.  If significant gyrations were necessary on a routine basis that would not be the case.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel

I think web mail is still not as good as applications myself. And I haven't seen any post from blind people saying they prefer web mail. But that's just me. Are used Thunderbird. Outlook if you like it is good.

Randy Barnett

On Apr 5, 2021, at 4:30 PM, Richard Turner <richardturner42@...> wrote:



Well, if people who are blind are choosing to use a method that requires two to three times as many keystrokes to do the same task, that is certainly their right and I say more power to them.

I just logged into gmail on the web.

Yes, it is far better than it was a few years ago.

But, using a gmail account with Outlook, means when I arrow down my inbox, I hear who it is from, the subject and the date.

That was one keypress.

If I go to the gmail web page, It takes three keystrokes to get from one subject (without knowing the sender) to get to the next message subject. The extra keystrokes are going passed the select check mark and the Star check mark.

So, this is really user preference and I want to be really clear, I am not making any value judgement that one way is better than another.

I like the way I do it is all.

Richard 

"Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people." -- Eleanor Roosevelt

www.turner42.com

On Apr 5, 2021, at 4:11 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 05:08 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

so long as you are accessing the email with an application and not using them through their web site.

-
But my point, along with offering a couple of email client options, is that using webmail is precisely what should be done, and far more often.

The days when webmail was mostly inaccessible is long gone.  There seems to be a great deal of "slow on the uptake" of this fact.  And there are a number of folks who post here, on the NVDA Group, and on the Win10 for Screen Reader Users Group who use Gmail webmail as their primary email access method.  If significant gyrations were necessary on a routine basis that would not be the case.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel

I think web mail is still not as good as applications myself. And I haven't seen any post from blind people saying they prefer web mail. But that's just me. Are used Thunderbird. Outlook if you like it is good.