Date   

moderated Re: Outlook, change number of month displayed to name of month

 

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 01:23 PM, Bill White wrote:
My version of Outlook is 2010.
-
My gut tells me that how Outlook has decided on the format to use has probably been the same "since dirt."

If you're under Windows 10, try the change I've mentioned and see if it carries over to Outlook after you exit and restart it.  If it doesn't, I do not have any access to Outlook 2010 any longer and regret that I cannot assist further.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

To think is to differ.
      ~ Clarence Darrow


moderated Re: Outlook, change number of month displayed to name of month

 

I can now definitely confirm that the portion of the date for month, day, year that's pulled up in Outlook comes from the Short Date setting for Windows.

After changing mine to use the format that they use, 05-Apr-17, as the example of, my Outlook date filed displays as:  Fri 26-Mar-21 11:21 AM

Now, mind you, that changes the display of short dates everywhere.  My system clock shows 1:24 PM with the date beneath it being 26-Mar-21 now.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

To think is to differ.
      ~ Clarence Darrow


moderated Re: Outlook, change number of month displayed to name of month

Bill White
 

Hi, Brian. My version of Outlook is 2010. What I see no setting for is to change the numeric month value to a name value, even if the format is changed from compact to single line view.

 

Bill White

 

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 10:18 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Outlook, change number of month displayed to name of month

 

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 01:13 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

I’m pretty sure that Outlook is just pulling the info from the regional format settings….

-
That's my presumption, too.  But I still want to know where in Outlook (and what version, for that matter) we're talking about.  

I see Bill has provided the where, so I need to fire up Outlook 2016 (which is all I have, but it's the base code for 2019 and 365, so it should do) to see what deep, dark setting in Outlook is used to decide what to snag.

One can change the short date format to something like:  25-March-2021.  If it is snagging from short date, and that would be adequate, I'd actually try tweaking the short date format via its combo box first (see my previous message for location in Settings).
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

To think is to differ.
      ~ Clarence Darrow


moderated Re: Outlook, change number of month displayed to name of month

 

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 01:13 PM, Richard Turner wrote:
I’m pretty sure that Outlook is just pulling the info from the regional format settings….
-
That's my presumption, too.  But I still want to know where in Outlook (and what version, for that matter) we're talking about.  

I see Bill has provided the where, so I need to fire up Outlook 2016 (which is all I have, but it's the base code for 2019 and 365, so it should do) to see what deep, dark setting in Outlook is used to decide what to snag.

One can change the short date format to something like:  25-March-2021.  If it is snagging from short date, and that would be adequate, I'd actually try tweaking the short date format via its combo box first (see my previous message for location in Settings).
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

To think is to differ.
      ~ Clarence Darrow


moderated Re: jaws2020 how to save password in chrome and firefox browser ?

Bill White
 

Hi, Addison. After you take the steps Brian suggested, what I do is, after logging into a site, press F6 (Function Key 6 on your computer. This brings up the save password dialog for me in Chrome and Edge. Then, if I am not focused on the "save" button, I can TAB or SHIFT plus TAB to the button, and press ENTER. This saves my password, if, indeed, the password can be saved. Some sites don't allow saving of passwords.

 

Bill White

 

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of O.Addison Gethers
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 9:09 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: jaws2020 how to save password in chrome and firefox browser ?

 

Hi All I’m on desktop windows10  and jaws2020!! When I open chrome and firefox  to log in user’s name and password  ,How do I save user’s name and password  in chrome and firefox ? What is the jaws command key for it? I thought it was alt s

Addison


moderated Re: Outlook, change number of month displayed to name of month

Richard Turner
 

IN the main Windows Regional format settings, Mine shows

Short date Combo box‑
‎4/‎5/‎2017
Long date Combo box‑
‎Wednesday, ‎April ‎5, ‎2017
Short time Combo box‑
9:40 AM
Long time Combo box‑
9:40:07 AM
Get help

 

I would assume, and you know what happens when you assume, that if you hit enter on the long date combo box it would use that, or maybe thre is another place you set it to use the long date format.

Brian probably knows.

 

I just checked because I was curious.

I’m pretty sure that Outlook is just pulling the info from the regional format settings….

 

 

Richard

 

Ralph's Observation:  It is a mistake to allow any mechanical object<>to realize that you are in a hurry.

 

 

My web site, www.turner42.com

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 10:07 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Outlook, change number of month displayed to name of month

 

Hi, it's in email, in the header of a message, before it is opened.

 

My date format shows the name of the month, not its numeric value.

 

Bill White

 

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 7:19 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Outlook, change number of month displayed to name of month

 

Bill,

          Where, specifically, in Outlook?

           Given that so many Windows programs use whatever format you've set up for your Region in Settings, Date & Time, Region Pane, using the Change data formats link, you may want to look at tweaking the "short date" format to look as you prefer to see if that does it.  If not, if I know where in Outlook, I can see if it has its own setting or if one can choose to use the "long date" format rather than "short date" in that context.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

To think is to differ.
      ~ Clarence Darrow


moderated Re: Outlook, change number of month displayed to name of month

Bill White
 

Hi, it's in email, in the header of a message, before it is opened.

 

My date format shows the name of the month, not its numeric value.

 

Bill White

 

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 7:19 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Outlook, change number of month displayed to name of month

 

Bill,

          Where, specifically, in Outlook?

           Given that so many Windows programs use whatever format you've set up for your Region in Settings, Date & Time, Region Pane, using the Change data formats link, you may want to look at tweaking the "short date" format to look as you prefer to see if that does it.  If not, if I know where in Outlook, I can see if it has its own setting or if one can choose to use the "long date" format rather than "short date" in that context.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

To think is to differ.
      ~ Clarence Darrow


moderated Re: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

 

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 10:05 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
A synth can be made to say anything by a screen reader.
-
Agreed.  It's just a matter of determining the "replacement string gyrations" that are necessary for a given synth (and, sometimes, voice).  Sometimes those gyrations are much more complicated than in others.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

To think is to differ.
      ~ Clarence Darrow


moderated Re: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

Mike B.
 


Hi David,
 
Okay I put the last name of Dmitri Shostakovich into the Actual word field,
and put, Shosta co vich, into the Replacement field of Jaws2021 latest.
 
It doesn't matter what punctuation or spaces are present before or after the actual word, the replacement name is spoken as entered.  I'm running the eloquence voice of Reed.
 
 
Stay safe and take care.  Mike.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 5:57 AM
Subject: Re: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

 

First of all, though this is a bit of a red herring, there is an inconsistency in the spelling of Shostakovich or Shostakovicc  on the web which I have found with my research. This is not a single agreed version. I am not sure which is correct or why the variation exists,  but I suspect it may be because of different anglicized interpretations of Russian Cyrillic script as happens from other translations from different alphabets.

but as with other names both exist so I want Jaws to pronounce each correctly.

Secondly I am using Jaws 21, I think February update but I have been aware of this annoyance for at least a while so probably extends back to Jaws 20 and 19 as well.

 

David Griffith

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Mike B
Sent: 26 March 2021 04:12
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

 

Hi Jaffar,

 

I'm using Eloquence and not having the problems David is having.  He didn't state which version of Jaws he's running, I'm running J16, and Vispero changed the way they do the computer lingo BS in JAWS17 and forward.  So, if he says which Jaws version he's running I'll give the version he's running a try to see what happens.  However I believe it's an entry issue in either the Actual or Replacement, fields of the JDF.

 

 

Stay safe and take care.  Mike.

----- Original Message -----

From: Jaffar Sidek

Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 8:33 PM

Subject: Re: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

 

I understand.  I am just wondering if it is all due to eloquence or jaws itself.  Cheers!

On 26/3/2021 10:11 am, Mike B wrote:



I Jaffar,

 

Whether I use a correct spelling or David's incorrect sample in the actual word field, when putting the sample provided by David I get the same results.

 

 

Stay safe and take care.  Mike.

----- Original Message -----

From: Jaffar Sidek

Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 6:41 PM

Subject: Re: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

 

Hi Mike. It should have been Shostakovich, if you are referring to the russian 20th century classical music composer.  His full name is Dmitri Shostakovich.  Cheers!

On 26/3/2021 9:21 am, Mike B wrote:



Hi David,

 

I just put the name, Shostakovic, into my JDF exactly the way you did along with the replacement, and I then placed a question mark, colon, exclamation mark, a period, a comma and a semicolon after the name and they all read the same.  See below;

 

 Shostakovic.

 

Shostakovic:

 

Shostakovic,

 

Shostakovic?

 

Shostakovic!

 

Shostakovic;

 

 

Are you putting a space at the beginning or at the end of the name in either the actual or replacement field?  if so, do not!

Also, these are my other settings, Applies to language, All Languages, Speak replacement word using language, Default, and the case sensitive is not checked.

When you exit are you saving your changes?  When I close I use the, Control + S, keystroke then I press, Alt + F4.

 

 

 

Stay safe and take care.  Mike.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 4:29 PM

Subject: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

 

There is a constant dictionary annoyance  which I find with Jaws.

So for example Eloquence on Jaws  will mis-pronounce a name like Shostakovic. I amended this in my Jaws dictionary tonight to Shosta co vic to make it approximate to something like the correct pronunciation

.

However in practice this is not enough, because if Shostakovic is followed by a full stop. A comma, a colon then the    amended pronunciation will not work for me. This means that for every word I want to put in the Jaws dictionary has to be entered at least 4 time.

The first time without any punctuation, the next 3 times with a full stop, a comma, and a colon.

Depending on what I am trying to read I sometimes have to add the word 6  times to the dictionary because you have to also include version of the word with a question mark and exclamation mark and so on.

I assume that there is nothing I can do to avoid this annoyance at this time but surely it is not too great a coding challenge for VFO to make the Jaws pronunciation dictionary just a little more intelligent and smart and less dumb?

David Griffith

.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


moderated Re: jaws2020 how to save password in chrome and firefox browser ?

 

The first question is:  Do you have the Save Passwords feature turned on in either one of these browsers?   It's got to be turned on before the option to do so will ever be presented to you.  [By the way, I advise against, but that's your call.]

Firefox:  ALT+T,O [Tools Menu, Options Item]
In Options navigate to the Privacy & Security Tab/Category
In that tab, navigate to the checkbox for Ask to save logins & passwords for websites and make sure it's on.  If not, check it.
Be sure to check the states of the three "sub" checkboxes under this once it's on to be certain that the choices related to logins & passwords are as you'd like them.

Chrome (or pretty much any Chromium-based browser, e.g., Brave, Vivaldi, new Edge):  ALT+F,S [Browser Menu Button, Settings Item]
Navigate to, or search for, the Passwords item under the Autofill section and activate that control.
The first item in the Passwords Pane/Tab is the toggle for Offer to save passwords.  Make sure it's toggled on.
I would also suggest looking at all the other controls in that pane so that what you think will be done with regard to passwords is exactly what you want done.

Once the password or login/password function is active, you should be presented with a pop-up dialog when you go to a previously unvisited (and if nothing's been saved, even previously visited sites are considered unvisited as far as this function goes) sites in relation to saving your password or login/password information.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

To think is to differ.
      ~ Clarence Darrow


moderated jaws2020 how to save password in chrome and firefox browser ?

O.Addison Gethers
 

Hi All I’m on desktop windows10  and jaws2020!! When I open chrome and firefox  to log in user’s name and password  ,How do I save user’s name and password  in chrome and firefox ? What is the jaws command key for it? I thought it was alt s

Addison


moderated Re: using a pc with a fingerprint/faced reader?

 

Marie,

             I am curious as to what a screen reader announces, or does not announce, when Windows Hello is set up to use facial recognition on a machine that supports it.

             If memory serves when this is chosen as the verification method there is nothing the user has to do but sit in front of the computer.  The camera, even if it's off normally, will be activated to view the face and a match will either be made, and you log in, or not.  I imagine if it doesn't recognize you that there'd have to be some sort of screen reader output to that effect.  But if you are recognized, I don't know whether it just logs you in or whether some sort of "You're verified" message is announced and the login proceeds.

              I have a machine with a fingerprint reader but none with facial recognition.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

To think is to differ.
      ~ Clarence Darrow


moderated Re: using a pc with a fingerprint/faced reader?

Marie
 

Please don’t take offense. since you don’t use face ID, you should not give advice such as this. I use it on my Surface Pro7 and it is almost 100% accurate. In the case that it might not work the first time, you set up a pin number to enter much like you would use a passcode on an IPhone.
Actually, I find it much better than face ID on the phone. And it works very well in low light.
Marie
 
 
Fr: Joe
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 7:12 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: using a pc with a fingerprint/faced reader?
 

Congratulations on the new laptop. I do not know about face ID and the response of Jaws to it.  I would not use it since it would possibly be less reliable depending on the lighting conditions and other factors.

 

Picture of Owl with Mortar Board and Computer

Dr. Joe L. Todd CVRT

                Phone: 616.951.2142

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jessica D
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 8:14 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: using a pc with a fingerprint/faceID reader?

 

Good morning,

 

I just purchased a new laptop.

 

It’s a Lenovo IdeaPad & has both touch& face ID.

 

When I got to the point during setup, where it asked me to scan my finger, for touch ID, narrator didn’t say anything, so I needed sighted assistance.

Butt when its ready for me to login, Jaws says, “scan your finger on the fingerprint reader.”

 

Would it do the same with face ID?

 

Thanks,

 

Jessica

 


moderated Re: Outlook, change number of month displayed to name of month

 

Bill,

          Where, specifically, in Outlook?

           Given that so many Windows programs use whatever format you've set up for your Region in Settings, Date & Time, Region Pane, using the Change data formats link, you may want to look at tweaking the "short date" format to look as you prefer to see if that does it.  If not, if I know where in Outlook, I can see if it has its own setting or if one can choose to use the "long date" format rather than "short date" in that context.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

To think is to differ.
      ~ Clarence Darrow


moderated Re: using a pc with a fingerprint/faced reader?

Joe
 

Congratulations on the new laptop. I do not know about face ID and the response of Jaws to it.  I would not use it since it would possibly be less reliable depending on the lighting conditions and other factors.

 

Picture of Owl with Mortar Board and Computer

Dr. Joe L. Todd CVRT

                Phone: 616.951.2142

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jessica D
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 8:14 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: using a pc with a fingerprint/faceID reader?

 

Good morning,

 

I just purchased a new laptop.

 

It’s a Lenovo IdeaPad & has both touch& face ID.

 

When I got to the point during setup, where it asked me to scan my finger, for touch ID, narrator didn’t say anything, so I needed sighted assistance.

Butt when its ready for me to login, Jaws says, “scan your finger on the fingerprint reader.”

 

Would it do the same with face ID?

 

Thanks,

 

Jessica

 


moderated Re: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

Steve Nutt
 

What voice are you using Mike? I have punctuation set to most, with Eloquence, and your sample failed for me.

 

But if you put an asterisk after the name, that should solve David’s problem.

 

All the best


Steve

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

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From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: 26 March 2021 02:12
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

 

I Jaffar,

 

Whether I use a correct spelling or David's incorrect sample in the actual word field, when putting the sample provided by David I get the same results.

 

 

Stay safe and take care.  Mike.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 6:41 PM

Subject: Re: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

 

Hi Mike. It should have been Shostakovich, if you are referring to the russian 20th century classical music composer.  His full name is Dmitri Shostakovich.  Cheers!

On 26/3/2021 9:21 am, Mike B wrote:



Hi David,

 

I just put the name, Shostakovic, into my JDF exactly the way you did along with the replacement, and I then placed a question mark, colon, exclamation mark, a period, a comma and a semicolon after the name and they all read the same.  See below;

 

 Shostakovic.

 

Shostakovic:

 

Shostakovic,

 

Shostakovic?

 

Shostakovic!

 

Shostakovic;

 

 

Are you putting a space at the beginning or at the end of the name in either the actual or replacement field?  if so, do not!

Also, these are my other settings, Applies to language, All Languages, Speak replacement word using language, Default, and the case sensitive is not checked.

When you exit are you saving your changes?  When I close I use the, Control + S, keystroke then I press, Alt + F4.

 

 

 

Stay safe and take care.  Mike.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 4:29 PM

Subject: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

 

There is a constant dictionary annoyance  which I find with Jaws.

So for example Eloquence on Jaws  will mis-pronounce a name like Shostakovic. I amended this in my Jaws dictionary tonight to Shosta co vic to make it approximate to something like the correct pronunciation

.

However in practice this is not enough, because if Shostakovic is followed by a full stop. A comma, a colon then the    amended pronunciation will not work for me. This means that for every word I want to put in the Jaws dictionary has to be entered at least 4 time.

The first time without any punctuation, the next 3 times with a full stop, a comma, and a colon.

Depending on what I am trying to read I sometimes have to add the word 6  times to the dictionary because you have to also include version of the word with a question mark and exclamation mark and so on.

I assume that there is nothing I can do to avoid this annoyance at this time but surely it is not too great a coding challenge for VFO to make the Jaws pronunciation dictionary just a little more intelligent and smart and less dumb?

David Griffith

.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10


moderated Re: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

Steve Nutt
 

This didn’t work for me either Mike, I get the same as David.  It probably is an Eloquence issue.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: 26 March 2021 01:22
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

 

Hi David,

 

I just put the name, Shostakovic, into my JDF exactly the way you did along with the replacement, and I then placed a question mark, colon, exclamation mark, a period, a comma and a semicolon after the name and they all read the same.  See below;

 

 Shostakovic.

 

Shostakovic:

 

Shostakovic,

 

Shostakovic?

 

Shostakovic!

 

Shostakovic;

 

 

Are you putting a space at the beginning or at the end of the name in either the actual or replacement field?  if so, do not!

Also, these are my other settings, Applies to language, All Languages, Speak replacement word using language, Default, and the case sensitive is not checked.

When you exit are you saving your changes?  When I close I use the, Control + S, keystroke then I press, Alt + F4.

 

 

 

Stay safe and take care.  Mike.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 4:29 PM

Subject: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

 

There is a constant dictionary annoyance  which I find with Jaws.

So for example Eloquence on Jaws  will mis-pronounce a name like Shostakovic. I amended this in my Jaws dictionary tonight to Shosta co vic to make it approximate to something like the correct pronunciation

.

However in practice this is not enough, because if Shostakovic is followed by a full stop. A comma, a colon then the    amended pronunciation will not work for me. This means that for every word I want to put in the Jaws dictionary has to be entered at least 4 time.

The first time without any punctuation, the next 3 times with a full stop, a comma, and a colon.

Depending on what I am trying to read I sometimes have to add the word 6  times to the dictionary because you have to also include version of the word with a question mark and exclamation mark and so on.

I assume that there is nothing I can do to avoid this annoyance at this time but surely it is not too great a coding challenge for VFO to make the Jaws pronunciation dictionary just a little more intelligent and smart and less dumb?

 

David Griffith

.

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


moderated Re: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

Steve Nutt
 

Sorry David, I wasn’t replying to you, but to Sorel.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

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77 Exeter Close

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E: steve@...

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From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Griffith
Sent: 26 March 2021 00:33
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

 

I am afraid this is just completely  wrong and misinformed.

It is perfectly possible to override synthetiser pronunciations – this is an explicit function in NVDA where you can apply restriction of pronunciations to a voice or all synthetisers.

For example I have just loaded NVDA and using an even  older  Sapi 4 version of eloquence, the one provided by Kurzweil, and made exactly the same dictionary  amendment to Shostakovic that I tried to make with the Jaws Dictionary earlier tonight.

Unlike Jaws I did not have to enter Shostakovic multiple time. I only entered it once  without any punctuation. NVDA is reading it correctly irrespective of any punctuation surrounding the term.

For good measure I then switched to 2 other Sapi 5 synthetisers with NVDA and again Shostakovic is again being pronounced correctly now with the change I made in the NVDA Speech Dictionary.

So again why if even NVDA can provide this basic functionality  cannot VFO.

 

David Griffith

.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Soronel Haetir
Sent: 26 March 2021 00:00
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

 

As I said, this is really not a VFO issue, it's a synthesizer issue,

and you should know that eloquence development stopped years ago.

 

Re. different results under Voiceover only if you were using the same

synthesizer (down to version) and got different behaviors depending on

which product was using it would I say that it is a synth client (i.e.

jaws) issue.

 

On 3/25/21, David Griffith <daj.griffith@...> wrote:

> I use Eloquence  with pronunciation  set to some.

> As far as I can tell I don’t seem to have this problem  with for example

> Voiceover on the Mac so am puzzled as to why this should be an

> insurmountable technical challenge for VFO.

> David Griffith

> Sent from Mail for Windows 10

> From: Glenn / Lenny

> Sent: 25 March 2021 23:40

> To: main@jfw.groups.io

> Subject: Re: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

> Good point.

> David, which synth do you use?

> Also, maybe it is your punctuation level settings that might be the issue.

> I use Eloquence, and I use the default settings for punctuation, and I

> haven't had to deal with the issues you have.

> Glenn

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "Soronel Haetir" <soronel.haetir@...>

> To: <main@jfw.groups.io>

> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 6:37 PM

> Subject: Re: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

> This really isn't an issue that VFO can address, these decisions are

> made deep in the synthesizer logic. The only thing the dictionary does

> is that when certain text is encountered specified other text is fed

> to the synthesizer in its place.

> Trying to broaden that so that the program replaces near-miss text

> with the dictionary entry would be fraught with error.

> On 3/25/21, David Griffith <daj.griffith@...> wrote:

>> There is a constant dictionary annoyance which I find with Jaws.

>> 

>> So for example Eloquence on Jaws will mis-pronounce a name like

>> Shostakovic. I amended this in my Jaws dictionary tonight to Shosta co vic

>> to make it approximate to something like the correct pronunciation

>> 

>> .

>> 

>> However in practice this is not enough, because if Shostakovic is followed

>> by a full stop. A comma, a colon then the amended pronunciation will not

>> work for me. This means that for every word I want to put in the Jaws

>> dictionary has to be entered at least 4 time.

>> 

>> The first time without any punctuation, the next 3 times with a full stop,

>> a

>> comma, and a colon.

>> 

>> Depending on what I am trying to read I sometimes have to add the word 6

>> times to the dictionary because you have to also include version of the

>> word

>> with a question mark and exclamation mark and so on.

>> 

>> I assume that there is nothing I can do to avoid this annoyance at this

>> time

>> but surely it is not too great a coding challenge for VFO to make the Jaws

>> pronunciation dictionary just a little more intelligent and smart and less

>> dumb?

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> David Griffith

>> 

>> .

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> --

> Soronel Haetir

> soronel.haetir@...

>

 

 

--

Soronel Haetir

soronel.haetir@...

 

 

 

 

 


moderated Re: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

Steve Nutt
 

What rubbish. 😊 A synth can be made to say anything by a screen reader.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

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From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Griffith
Sent: 26 March 2021 00:33
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

 

I am afraid this is just completely  wrong and misinformed.

It is perfectly possible to override synthetiser pronunciations – this is an explicit function in NVDA where you can apply restriction of pronunciations to a voice or all synthetisers.

For example I have just loaded NVDA and using an even  older  Sapi 4 version of eloquence, the one provided by Kurzweil, and made exactly the same dictionary  amendment to Shostakovic that I tried to make with the Jaws Dictionary earlier tonight.

Unlike Jaws I did not have to enter Shostakovic multiple time. I only entered it once  without any punctuation. NVDA is reading it correctly irrespective of any punctuation surrounding the term.

For good measure I then switched to 2 other Sapi 5 synthetisers with NVDA and again Shostakovic is again being pronounced correctly now with the change I made in the NVDA Speech Dictionary.

So again why if even NVDA can provide this basic functionality  cannot VFO.

 

David Griffith

.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Soronel Haetir
Sent: 26 March 2021 00:00
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

 

As I said, this is really not a VFO issue, it's a synthesizer issue,

and you should know that eloquence development stopped years ago.

 

Re. different results under Voiceover only if you were using the same

synthesizer (down to version) and got different behaviors depending on

which product was using it would I say that it is a synth client (i.e.

jaws) issue.

 

On 3/25/21, David Griffith <daj.griffith@...> wrote:

> I use Eloquence  with pronunciation  set to some.

> As far as I can tell I don’t seem to have this problem  with for example

> Voiceover on the Mac so am puzzled as to why this should be an

> insurmountable technical challenge for VFO.

> David Griffith

> Sent from Mail for Windows 10

> From: Glenn / Lenny

> Sent: 25 March 2021 23:40

> To: main@jfw.groups.io

> Subject: Re: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

> Good point.

> David, which synth do you use?

> Also, maybe it is your punctuation level settings that might be the issue.

> I use Eloquence, and I use the default settings for punctuation, and I

> haven't had to deal with the issues you have.

> Glenn

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "Soronel Haetir" <soronel.haetir@...>

> To: <main@jfw.groups.io>

> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 6:37 PM

> Subject: Re: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

> This really isn't an issue that VFO can address, these decisions are

> made deep in the synthesizer logic. The only thing the dictionary does

> is that when certain text is encountered specified other text is fed

> to the synthesizer in its place.

> Trying to broaden that so that the program replaces near-miss text

> with the dictionary entry would be fraught with error.

> On 3/25/21, David Griffith <daj.griffith@...> wrote:

>> There is a constant dictionary annoyance which I find with Jaws.

>> 

>> So for example Eloquence on Jaws will mis-pronounce a name like

>> Shostakovic. I amended this in my Jaws dictionary tonight to Shosta co vic

>> to make it approximate to something like the correct pronunciation

>> 

>> .

>> 

>> However in practice this is not enough, because if Shostakovic is followed

>> by a full stop. A comma, a colon then the amended pronunciation will not

>> work for me. This means that for every word I want to put in the Jaws

>> dictionary has to be entered at least 4 time.

>> 

>> The first time without any punctuation, the next 3 times with a full stop,

>> a

>> comma, and a colon.

>> 

>> Depending on what I am trying to read I sometimes have to add the word 6

>> times to the dictionary because you have to also include version of the

>> word

>> with a question mark and exclamation mark and so on.

>> 

>> I assume that there is nothing I can do to avoid this annoyance at this

>> time

>> but surely it is not too great a coding challenge for VFO to make the Jaws

>> pronunciation dictionary just a little more intelligent and smart and less

>> dumb?

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> David Griffith

>> 

>> .

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> --

> Soronel Haetir

> soronel.haetir@...

>

 

 

--

Soronel Haetir

soronel.haetir@...

 

 

 

 

 


moderated Re: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

Steve Nutt
 

As in my previous message, this is incorrect. VFO just need to add the options for whole word, regular expression, etc. Just look at NVDA's dictionaries and see how much better they are.

All the best

Steve

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Stevenage
Hertfordshire
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E: steve@comproom.co.uk
W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Soronel Haetir
Sent: 25 March 2021 23:37
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Jaws Dictionary annoyance

This really isn't an issue that VFO can address, these decisions are made deep in the synthesizer logic. The only thing the dictionary does is that when certain text is encountered specified other text is fed to the synthesizer in its place.

Trying to broaden that so that the program replaces near-miss text with the dictionary entry would be fraught with error.

On 3/25/21, David Griffith <daj.griffith@gmail.com> wrote:
There is a constant dictionary annoyance which I find with Jaws.

So for example Eloquence on Jaws will mis-pronounce a name like
Shostakovic. I amended this in my Jaws dictionary tonight to Shosta co
vic to make it approximate to something like the correct pronunciation

.

However in practice this is not enough, because if Shostakovic is
followed by a full stop. A comma, a colon then the amended
pronunciation will not work for me. This means that for every word I
want to put in the Jaws dictionary has to be entered at least 4 time.

The first time without any punctuation, the next 3 times with a full
stop, a comma, and a colon.

Depending on what I am trying to read I sometimes have to add the word
6 times to the dictionary because you have to also include version of
the word with a question mark and exclamation mark and so on.

I assume that there is nothing I can do to avoid this annoyance at
this time but surely it is not too great a coding challenge for VFO to
make the Jaws pronunciation dictionary just a little more intelligent
and smart and less dumb?



David Griffith

.







Sent from Mail for Windows 10




--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com

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