Date   

moderated Re: defender

Shirley Tracy
 

Good afternoon all,

 

I want to add my thanks, because I didn’T have any tutorial for this and now I can make fuller use of my Windows virus protector.

 

I’ve learned so much from this list by just reading and paying attention. Thanks to everyone for all their input on so many JAWS related topics.

  

Cheerfully,

 

Shirley Tracy

 

From: Stan Holdeman
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:34 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: defender

 

Thanks for the detailed  guide for Defender.

 

Stan

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2021 7:12 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: defender

 

Hi Stan,

 

see if the tutorial below will help:

From: Jim Flusche
Windows defender security center.

 

** Now shortened to just Windows security in the W2004update.

 

This file is updated to the W2004 update. 

 

* The security of your computer is the most important program on your computer!

 

*How to use the Windows security program on your computer?

 

*Tip, pin the Windows security program to the Taskbar.

 

How do I do that?

 

Press the windows key, followed by the down arrow, you land in the All Apps list box.

 

Press the letter W, down arrow and highlight, windows  security .

 

Press the applications key, arrow down to more sub menu, right arrow to, pin to Taskbar, press enter.

 

Now the Windows  security program is pinned to the Taskbar, you can skip going directly through the settings area and all the below steps to get to it.

 

*Tip, after pinning it to the taskbar, just press windows key+T, type the letter W, until you hear Windows security, press the Enter key to open it.

 

*Tip, how to go through the settings area to find the Windows security program.

 

Press Windows key+I, you will land in the settings area search edit box, Tab one time.

 

Either press the Right arrow key, or just press the End key to, Update and security, press the spacebar, Tab one time.

 

Down arrow two times to, Windows security , press the spacebar.

 

Tab one time to, open Windows security, Press the Spacebar.

 

*tip, If you have a new computer, you might hear, use Windows security instead.

 

*tip, After you open the Windows security program.

 

On my computer I hear, Virus & threat protectionNo action needed, 1 of 7.

 

** Now with Jaws 2020 I need to Press the Down arrow many times and then I Press the up arrow to see all the catigories under Windows Security.

 

Now Arrow up to Virus & threat protection, you will now hear, 2 of 8, instead of 1 of 7.

 

Press Enter on, Virus & threat protection, my computer says, No threats found, Quick scan Button, Press Enter on quick scan button to start your own  scan
on your computer.

 

When the scan was finished   I herd a chime followed by, a New notification from Windows Security, Windows Defender scan results, Microsoft Defender Antivirus
scanned your device at 6:10:44 PM on ‎7/‎1/‎2020. No new threats were found.

 

*tip, During the scan I Pressed numpad minus followed by Page up a few times, followed by the down arrow to read the progress of the running  scan.‑

 

If you miss the audio notice message, press Windows key+A, down arrow one time, and listen to the action center items, windows security notices should
be the first item.

 

Now to do a full scan, follow the above directions to the quick scan button, this time tab one more time to, Scan options Link, press the spacebar.

 

You land on,  Allowed threats link, Tab to full scan radio button, checked, Tab one time to, Custom scan radio button not checked, Or tab one more time
to Windows Defender Offline scan radio button not checked.

 

Now after what ever radio button you choose, Tab to, the scan now button, press the spacebar.

 

*Tip, if you choose the off line scan, you will hear, save your work, or you may only hear scan now, press the Scan now button again, you will get the
users account notification.

 

Tab to yes, press the enter key.

 

You will hear, signing out, now your computer will begin the restart process while Windows Security does an off line scan.

 

Windows Security will scan your computer during the restart process, when you hear the password or the pin edit box, Windows Security has finished the
off line scan.

 

*tip After you enter your pin or password, the Windows Security window may come up instead of your desktop.

 

When you press enter on the windows security program pinned to the Taskbar, or use it's shortcut windows key+number row position pinned to the Taskbar.

 

In my case, press Windows key+6, will open the windows  security program, you get to skip all the steps in the settings area of W-10 on getting to the
Windows  security program.

 

*How to check the Device performance & health of your computer.

 

Go to Windows  Security.

 

Press the spacebar or enter key on, Device performance & health.

 

Wait for a few minutes.

 

Now either Press the Down arrow, or Tab a few times to, Health report List box.

 

You should hear, Health report List box, Windows UpdateNo issues, 1 of 3

 

Down arrow one time, you should hear, Storage capacityNo issues.

 

Down arrow again, you should hear, Device driverNo issues.

 

* In my opinion the built-in Windows Security program from Microsoft is all you need to keep your computer safe, but if you wish to spend unnecessary money
for another anti-virous program, then go ahead! 

 

The Windows Security program is much easier to use, then it is on trying to explain in a short text file, on how to use the Windows Security program.

 

Well I did my best, I hope I was still able to help some of you, on learning about using the Windows Security program on your computer.

 

* Important,remember The security of your computer is the most important program on your computer!

 

 

Sincerely: Jim Flusche. 


Stay safe and take care.  Mike.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2021 1:44 PM

Subject: defender

 

I am rid of McAfee and am now relying on Defender. I have jaws 2021 and windows 10 ver 20h2.

 

Wher can I learn more about Defender? How do I manually request a quick scan, for instance? A little help to get me started will l be appreciated.

 

Stan

 

 

 


moderated Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

Glenn / Lenny
 


I would relate this to Jaws in that when I would at times, teach Jaws and keyboarding in a classroom with students wearing blindfolds, I would turn out the lights, as often people would be tempted to peek.
I would also turn off the monitors.
Back when I was sighted in high school, and in typing class, the teacher made everyone tape a sheet of paper over the keys and put our hands under them to type.
She made us do this every day, I don't know why she just didn't leave the paper, but it was an exercise in itself I guess.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member


So now this has become a list for the discussion of blindness rehab and O&M training, neither of which has any connection whatsoever to JAWS. For those of you who insist on continuing this off-topic thread, I suggest joining the Blind-Talk list, which is a more general forum where just about anything is permissible for discussion.  To join, send a blank message to:


lind-talk+subscribe@groups.io


Gerald



On 1/28/2021 12:17 PM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:
That sounds more like a complaint.
Perhaps she could sit in in a very dark room for five or ten minutes before
going home.
But if folks don't like it, they will find a way to make it have negative
consequences.
And if she really believed in its benefit, perhaps she would have thought of
that.

Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Diamond" <Daviddiamond2019@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member


A guide dog trainer told me when she wore the blind fold for one day at the
end of the day she had such a headache when she had to drive home.  After
seeing nothing, all of a sudden she was flooded with visual information, it
was over whelming to her.

 -----Original Message----
 From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laura
 Shumate
 Sent: January 27, 2021 7:36 PM
 To: main@jfw.groups.io
 Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

 I don't see a problem I think teaching the sighted about Access Technology
is a
 cool thing.
 I even had my dad who is sighted use Talk Back on his phone but he said
after
 a day he wanted no more to do with it.
 Laura Shumate
 snowflake122188@...
 Business Phone: 254-300-7667
 Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684



 On 1/27/21, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote:
 > I would make a different point about wearing blindfolds.
 > In any situation, but especially the Blind service industry, the
 > blindfolds typically are not worn for empathy, they actually are or
 > should be worn so the wearer can learn non-visual skills, independent of
 sight.
 > If a sighted person is going to be teaching Blindness skills, then
 > that person needs to have confidence in the skills being taught.
 > Also, as far as being on a Jaws or any other list oriented to those
 > who use the associated products, it could be anyone, like the guy or
 > gal down the street who does not even use the product.  As far as
 > rules go, although one could discriminate against the sighted, there
would
 be no way to police it.
 > And really, who cares who joins any list, as long as they aren't a
 > problem lister.
 > Glenn
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > From: Randy Barnett
 > To: main@jfw.groups.io
 > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:39 PM
 > Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member
 >
 >
 > Yes, AT instructors have to spend a week or two blindfolded so they
 > can empathize and understand what it is really like. without doing
 > this they aren't able to really understand what it is like for us.
 >
 >
 > On 1/27/2021 5:44 PM, David Diamond wrote:
 >
 >
 >   I agree with Brian.  At one of the guide dog schools, one of the
 > days all students have to wear a blind fold or night shade from after
 > Breakfast to supper.  This is generally a total of 8 hours.  Point?
 > So they rely on their guide dogs instead of their sight.  Tie in?  How
 > will the sighted know about the problems the VI sector have if they
 > are not aware of them.  It drove me nuts when someone on the Microsoft
 > disability help desk told me to click on the yellow X.  Darling, if I
 > could see it I would not be calling your department.
 >
 >
 >
 >   From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
 >   Sent: January 27, 2021 5:04 PM
 >   To: main@jfw.groups.io
 >   Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member
 >
 >
 >
 >   Well, unless there's some rule banning the sighted (in which case I
 > should have been gone, long ago), I can't see this as a problem.
 >
 >   I think it's an excellent idea for sighted individuals working in
 > the VI sphere to join and learn from the groups related to same.
 >   --
 >
 >   Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042
 >
 >   One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of
 > the shore for a very long time.
 >
 >              ~ André Gide
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >


 --
 Laura Shumate
 snowflake122188@...
 Business Phone: 254-300-7667
 Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684

















moderated Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

Glenn / Lenny
 


True enough, just like I have to delete a bunch of messages when a thread becomes long, and I'm not interested.
I don't even open them.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 01:00 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
I suggest joining the Blind-Talk list,
-
Topic drift is endemic to any group, upon occasion.  And the JAWS group has historically allowed topics that are tangentially related, at best, to JAWS.  This group has never been strictly moderated.

I'd suggest that you, and anyone else who gets frustrated with a given topic on any group, learn how to use the tools that Groups.io gives every user to control the messages they receive to begin with, or keep receiving.  In this case, the Mute this Topic link at the end of every blessed message.

Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io (docx)

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

 

On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 01:00 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
I suggest joining the Blind-Talk list,
-
Topic drift is endemic to any group, upon occasion.  And the JAWS group has historically allowed topics that are tangentially related, at best, to JAWS.  This group has never been strictly moderated.

I'd suggest that you, and anyone else who gets frustrated with a given topic on any group, learn how to use the tools that Groups.io gives every user to control the messages they receive to begin with, or keep receiving.  In this case, the Mute this Topic link at the end of every blessed message.

Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io (docx)

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Windows emoji picker

 

Hi,

By default emoji panel shows recently used emojis. You can press Tab to move between emojis and categories, then from categories list, use left or right arrows to move between categories such as (most recently used”, “people”, “celebrations and objects” and what not and press Enter to activate a given category. Emoji panel will remember your category selection the next time you open it.

Cheers,

Jsoeph

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim Ford
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 10:06 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Windows emoji picker

 

With the Windows key + ., I get a short list of emojis, but there are obviously many more.  Is there some web page or other option?  Or, is there some way to expand the short emoji list I got from windows + .?

 

Tim Ford

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim Portillo
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 9:52 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Windows emoji picker

 

If you use the Windows-Period, it will take you into a list of them. This is in Word.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim Ford
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 9:28 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Windows emoji picker

 

Hello All,

 

How do I find the Windows list of emoji symbols, and use JAWS to insert that into a text box?

 

Tim Ford

 

 


moderated Re: Windows emoji picker

Tim Ford
 

With the Windows key + ., I get a short list of emojis, but there are obviously many more.  Is there some web page or other option?  Or, is there some way to expand the short emoji list I got from windows + .?

 

Tim Ford

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim Portillo
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 9:52 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Windows emoji picker

 

If you use the Windows-Period, it will take you into a list of them. This is in Word.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim Ford
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 9:28 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Windows emoji picker

 

Hello All,

 

How do I find the Windows list of emoji symbols, and use JAWS to insert that into a text box?

 

Tim Ford

 

 


moderated Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

Gerald Levy
 


So now this has become a list for the discussion of blindness rehab and O&M training, neither of which has any connection whatsoever to JAWS. For those of you who insist on continuing this off-topic thread, I suggest joining the Blind-Talk list, which is a more general forum where just about anything is permissible for discussion.  To join, send a blank message to:


lind-talk+subscribe@groups.io


Gerald



On 1/28/2021 12:17 PM, Glenn / Lenny wrote:
That sounds more like a complaint.
Perhaps she could sit in in a very dark room for five or ten minutes before
going home.
But if folks don't like it, they will find a way to make it have negative
consequences.
And if she really believed in its benefit, perhaps she would have thought of
that.

Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Diamond" <Daviddiamond2019@...>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member


A guide dog trainer told me when she wore the blind fold for one day at the
end of the day she had such a headache when she had to drive home.  After
seeing nothing, all of a sudden she was flooded with visual information, it
was over whelming to her.

 -----Original Message----
 From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laura
 Shumate
 Sent: January 27, 2021 7:36 PM
 To: main@jfw.groups.io
 Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

 I don't see a problem I think teaching the sighted about Access Technology
is a
 cool thing.
 I even had my dad who is sighted use Talk Back on his phone but he said
after
 a day he wanted no more to do with it.
 Laura Shumate
 snowflake122188@...
 Business Phone: 254-300-7667
 Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684



 On 1/27/21, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@...> wrote:
 > I would make a different point about wearing blindfolds.
 > In any situation, but especially the Blind service industry, the
 > blindfolds typically are not worn for empathy, they actually are or
 > should be worn so the wearer can learn non-visual skills, independent of
 sight.
 > If a sighted person is going to be teaching Blindness skills, then
 > that person needs to have confidence in the skills being taught.
 > Also, as far as being on a Jaws or any other list oriented to those
 > who use the associated products, it could be anyone, like the guy or
 > gal down the street who does not even use the product.  As far as
 > rules go, although one could discriminate against the sighted, there
would
 be no way to police it.
 > And really, who cares who joins any list, as long as they aren't a
 > problem lister.
 > Glenn
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > From: Randy Barnett
 > To: main@jfw.groups.io
 > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:39 PM
 > Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member
 >
 >
 > Yes, AT instructors have to spend a week or two blindfolded so they
 > can empathize and understand what it is really like. without doing
 > this they aren't able to really understand what it is like for us.
 >
 >
 > On 1/27/2021 5:44 PM, David Diamond wrote:
 >
 >
 >   I agree with Brian.  At one of the guide dog schools, one of the
 > days all students have to wear a blind fold or night shade from after
 > Breakfast to supper.  This is generally a total of 8 hours.  Point?
 > So they rely on their guide dogs instead of their sight.  Tie in?  How
 > will the sighted know about the problems the VI sector have if they
 > are not aware of them.  It drove me nuts when someone on the Microsoft
 > disability help desk told me to click on the yellow X.  Darling, if I
 > could see it I would not be calling your department.
 >
 >
 >
 >   From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
 >   Sent: January 27, 2021 5:04 PM
 >   To: main@jfw.groups.io
 >   Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member
 >
 >
 >
 >   Well, unless there's some rule banning the sighted (in which case I
 > should have been gone, long ago), I can't see this as a problem.
 >
 >   I think it's an excellent idea for sighted individuals working in
 > the VI sphere to join and learn from the groups related to same.
 >   --
 >
 >   Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042
 >
 >   One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of
 > the shore for a very long time.
 >
 >              ~ André Gide
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >


 --
 Laura Shumate
 snowflake122188@...
 Business Phone: 254-300-7667
 Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684

















moderated Re: Windows emoji picker

Leo
 

Well, you can actually insert an emoji or any other symbol from the Windows 10 pane into practically

Any application that supports Unicode, including  TB and Outlook.

 

Best,

     Leo Bado.

 

"It seems to me that I will always be happy in the place where I am not." Paul Auster. "City of Glass"

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Portillo
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 11:52 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Windows emoji picker

 

If you use the Windows-Period, it will take you into a list of them. This is in Word.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim Ford
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 9:28 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Windows emoji picker

 

Hello All,

 

How do I find the Windows list of emoji symbols, and use JAWS to insert that into a text box?

 

Tim Ford

 

 


moderated Re: Windows emoji picker

Jim Portillo
 

If you use the Windows-Period, it will take you into a list of them. This is in Word.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim Ford
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 9:28 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Windows emoji picker

 

Hello All,

 

How do I find the Windows list of emoji symbols, and use JAWS to insert that into a text box?

 

Tim Ford

 

 


moderated Windows emoji picker

Tim Ford
 

Hello All,

 

How do I find the Windows list of emoji symbols, and use JAWS to insert that into a text box?

 

Tim Ford

 

 


moderated Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

Glenn / Lenny
 

There has to be a benefit involved.
If for example, he thought he was going to lose much more sight, or all of
it, that may have motivated him more.
I think it was probably more beneficial for him to believe that you can do
something that he cannot.
The benefit for sighted trainers may be that they can keep their job.
I know that in Iowa and Nebraska, if new staff does not succeed their first
three months of training with them on, they lose their job.
Glenn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Laura Shumate" <snowflake122188@gmail.com>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member


Hi David,
I told my X husband one day to close his eyes for 1 hour he didn't
even last 30 minutes.
Laura Shumate
snowflake122188@gmail.com
Business Phone: 254-300-7667
Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684



On 1/28/21, David Diamond <Daviddiamond2019@outlook.com> wrote:
A guide dog trainer told me when she wore the blind fold for one day at
the
end of the day she had such a headache when she had to drive home. After
seeing nothing, all of a sudden she was flooded with visual information,
it
was over whelming to her.

-----Original Message----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laura
Shumate
Sent: January 27, 2021 7:36 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

I don't see a problem I think teaching the sighted about Access
Technology
is a
cool thing.
I even had my dad who is sighted use Talk Back on his phone but he said
after
a day he wanted no more to do with it.
Laura Shumate
snowflake122188@gmail.com
Business Phone: 254-300-7667
Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684



On 1/27/21, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@cableone.net> wrote:
> I would make a different point about wearing blindfolds.
> In any situation, but especially the Blind service industry, the
> blindfolds typically are not worn for empathy, they actually are or
> should be worn so the wearer can learn non-visual skills, independent
of
sight.
> If a sighted person is going to be teaching Blindness skills, then
> that person needs to have confidence in the skills being taught.
> Also, as far as being on a Jaws or any other list oriented to those
> who use the associated products, it could be anyone, like the guy or
> gal down the street who does not even use the product. As far as
> rules go, although one could discriminate against the sighted, there
would
be no way to police it.
> And really, who cares who joins any list, as long as they aren't a
> problem lister.
> Glenn
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Randy Barnett
> To: main@jfw.groups.io
> Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:39 PM
> Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member
>
>
> Yes, AT instructors have to spend a week or two blindfolded so they
> can empathize and understand what it is really like. without doing
> this they aren't able to really understand what it is like for us.
>
>
> On 1/27/2021 5:44 PM, David Diamond wrote:
>
>
> I agree with Brian. At one of the guide dog schools, one of the
> days all students have to wear a blind fold or night shade from after
> Breakfast to supper. This is generally a total of 8 hours. Point?
> So they rely on their guide dogs instead of their sight. Tie in? How
> will the sighted know about the problems the VI sector have if they
> are not aware of them. It drove me nuts when someone on the Microsoft
> disability help desk told me to click on the yellow X. Darling, if I
> could see it I would not be calling your department.
>
>
>
> From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian
Vogel
> Sent: January 27, 2021 5:04 PM
> To: main@jfw.groups.io
> Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member
>
>
>
> Well, unless there's some rule banning the sighted (in which case I
> should have been gone, long ago), I can't see this as a problem.
>
> I think it's an excellent idea for sighted individuals working in
> the VI sphere to join and learn from the groups related to same.
> --
>
> Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042
>
> One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of
> the shore for a very long time.
>
> ~ André Gide
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Laura Shumate
snowflake122188@gmail.com
Business Phone: 254-300-7667
Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684











--


moderated Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

 

On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 11:52 AM, David Diamond wrote:
For the trainer to wear a blind fold it shows whether the dog is indeed guiding them properly or they are in a sense directing the dog.
-
David, in that context, it makes perfect sense.  It's a test of both trainer and trainee where one knows the actual end-user of the trainee has no sight.

My central point is that instant, artificial removal of a sense one has generally has little utility as far as "making someone know what it's like" for someone living, long term, with loss (or never having had) that same sense.   It certainly gives a sense, and an accurate one, of what it's like in the early days of someone who finds themselves having lost a sense very suddenly, which can be useful as a teaching tool, but it's a mistake to believe that what you get from the person so artificially deprived is any sense of what it's like to live with something permanent and over the long term.

I have had a number of people argue that I simply cannot know that it is to be a screen reader user unless I blindfold myself.  And my response is I cannot know what it is to be a screen reader user, period.  If I'm blindfolded, I'm instantly deprived of a sense I use to figure out what's happening in my world normally, including at times with a screen reader (I'd say most times, as I use things like Focus Highlight in NVDA and the analog in JAWS).  My normal modus operandi is as a sighted person, and I cannot and will not ever know, in any meaningful sense, what it is to be blind unless I were to become so.  And when I have to operate in an artificial state of sensory deprivation, that's not representative of "normal life" for those who are constantly in that state in any way.  The degree of frustration and panic may be representative of "a stage," but not of long term living, and that stage is far more fraught than what develops after compensatory skills are developed.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

Glenn / Lenny
 


Exactly, the blindfold does not give anyone the experience of being Blind, for the reason you mentioned.
Glenn
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 12:44 AM
Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

The school that requires all students to wear a blind fold does this so everyone is on a level playing field.  True instructors can do wear a blind fold, but they can take it off at the end of the day.  Apparently at one school, a trainer took the blind fold off right away because she panicked.  Must be nice to get your sight back and have that ability.  Grin. 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
Sent: January 27, 2021 6:40 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

 

Yes, AT instructors have to spend a week or two blindfolded so they can empathize and understand what it is really like. without doing this they aren't able to really understand what it is like for us.

On 1/27/2021 5:44 PM, David Diamond wrote:

I agree with Brian.  At one of the guide dog schools, one of the days all students have to wear a blind fold or night shade from after Breakfast to supper.  This is generally a total of 8 hours.  Point?  So they rely on their guide dogs instead of their sight.  Tie in?  How will the sighted know about the problems the VI sector have if they are not aware of them.  It drove me nuts when someone on the Microsoft disability help desk told me to click on the yellow X.  Darling, if I could see it I would not be calling your department. 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: January 27, 2021 5:04 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

 

Well, unless there's some rule banning the sighted (in which case I should have been gone, long ago), I can't see this as a problem.

I think it's an excellent idea for sighted individuals working in the VI sphere to join and learn from the groups related to same.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

Glenn / Lenny
 

That sounds more like a complaint.
Perhaps she could sit in in a very dark room for five or ten minutes before
going home.
But if folks don't like it, they will find a way to make it have negative
consequences.
And if she really believed in its benefit, perhaps she would have thought of
that.

Glenn

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Diamond" <Daviddiamond2019@outlook.com>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member


A guide dog trainer told me when she wore the blind fold for one day at the
end of the day she had such a headache when she had to drive home. After
seeing nothing, all of a sudden she was flooded with visual information, it
was over whelming to her.

-----Original Message----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laura
Shumate
Sent: January 27, 2021 7:36 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

I don't see a problem I think teaching the sighted about Access Technology
is a
cool thing.
I even had my dad who is sighted use Talk Back on his phone but he said
after
a day he wanted no more to do with it.
Laura Shumate
snowflake122188@gmail.com
Business Phone: 254-300-7667
Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684



On 1/27/21, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@cableone.net> wrote:
> I would make a different point about wearing blindfolds.
> In any situation, but especially the Blind service industry, the
> blindfolds typically are not worn for empathy, they actually are or
> should be worn so the wearer can learn non-visual skills, independent of
sight.
> If a sighted person is going to be teaching Blindness skills, then
> that person needs to have confidence in the skills being taught.
> Also, as far as being on a Jaws or any other list oriented to those
> who use the associated products, it could be anyone, like the guy or
> gal down the street who does not even use the product. As far as
> rules go, although one could discriminate against the sighted, there
would
be no way to police it.
> And really, who cares who joins any list, as long as they aren't a
> problem lister.
> Glenn
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Randy Barnett
> To: main@jfw.groups.io
> Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:39 PM
> Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member
>
>
> Yes, AT instructors have to spend a week or two blindfolded so they
> can empathize and understand what it is really like. without doing
> this they aren't able to really understand what it is like for us.
>
>
> On 1/27/2021 5:44 PM, David Diamond wrote:
>
>
> I agree with Brian. At one of the guide dog schools, one of the
> days all students have to wear a blind fold or night shade from after
> Breakfast to supper. This is generally a total of 8 hours. Point?
> So they rely on their guide dogs instead of their sight. Tie in? How
> will the sighted know about the problems the VI sector have if they
> are not aware of them. It drove me nuts when someone on the Microsoft
> disability help desk told me to click on the yellow X. Darling, if I
> could see it I would not be calling your department.
>
>
>
> From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
> Sent: January 27, 2021 5:04 PM
> To: main@jfw.groups.io
> Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member
>
>
>
> Well, unless there's some rule banning the sighted (in which case I
> should have been gone, long ago), I can't see this as a problem.
>
> I think it's an excellent idea for sighted individuals working in
> the VI sphere to join and learn from the groups related to same.
> --
>
> Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042
>
> One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of
> the shore for a very long time.
>
> ~ André Gide
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Laura Shumate
snowflake122188@gmail.com
Business Phone: 254-300-7667
Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684


moderated Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

Glenn / Lenny
 


In Nebraska and Iowa and some other states, the state rehab agency makes all new staff spend their first three months of work, in training with blindfolds.
The wind up not being experts in Blindness skills, but fair, and confident in teaching the skills because they know how well they work.
I think that TVI  as well as O&M instructors should be required to do this as well.
Glenn
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

Here is a twist, A group of O & M instructors were at a seminare with some of their students.  The power went out and they panicked.  They went so far as to put candles on the rug so they could be guided by the candle light.  One of their students offered to guide them, they declined.  Point?  This is already been touched on, it is one thing to teach a skill but when, as they say the rubber hits the road, does the teacher practice what they teach or does fear set in? I think it is excellent that a teacher of VIPs wants to join a list like this because it gives him or her insight into our world.   

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: January 27, 2021 6:57 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

 

I would make a different point about wearing blindfolds.

In any situation, but especially the Blind service industry, the blindfolds typically are not worn for empathy, they actually are or should be worn so the wearer can learn non-visual skills, independent of sight.

If a sighted person is going to be teaching Blindness skills, then that person needs to have confidence in the skills being taught.

Also, as far as being on a Jaws or any other list oriented to those who use the associated products, it could be anyone, like the guy or gal down the street who does not even use the product.  As far as rules go, although one could discriminate against the sighted, there would be no way to police it.

And really, who cares who joins any list, as long as they aren't a problem lister.

Glenn

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:39 PM

Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

 

Yes, AT instructors have to spend a week or two blindfolded so they can empathize and understand what it is really like. without doing this they aren't able to really understand what it is like for us.

On 1/27/2021 5:44 PM, David Diamond wrote:

I agree with Brian.  At one of the guide dog schools, one of the days all students have to wear a blind fold or night shade from after Breakfast to supper.  This is generally a total of 8 hours.  Point?  So they rely on their guide dogs instead of their sight.  Tie in?  How will the sighted know about the problems the VI sector have if they are not aware of them.  It drove me nuts when someone on the Microsoft disability help desk told me to click on the yellow X.  Darling, if I could see it I would not be calling your department. 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: January 27, 2021 5:04 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

Well, unless there's some rule banning the sighted (in which case I should have been gone, long ago), I can't see this as a problem.

I think it's an excellent idea for sighted individuals working in the VI sphere to join and learn from the groups related to same.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

David Diamond
 

Some don't even last that long, maybe 5 minutes if that. Grin. The trainer I mentioned it was said took the blind fold off after 30 seconds even though she was supposed to keep it on. s

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laura
Shumate
Sent: January 27, 2021 10:47 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

Hi David,
I told my X husband one day to close his eyes for 1 hour he didn't even last 30
minutes.
Laura Shumate
snowflake122188@gmail.com
Business Phone: 254-300-7667
Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684



On 1/28/21, David Diamond <Daviddiamond2019@outlook.com> wrote:
> A guide dog trainer told me when she wore the blind fold for one day
> at the end of the day she had such a headache when she had to drive
> home. After seeing nothing, all of a sudden she was flooded with
> visual information, it was over whelming to her.
>
> -----Original Message----
> From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laura
> Shumate
> Sent: January 27, 2021 7:36 PM
> To: main@jfw.groups.io
> Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member
>
> I don't see a problem I think teaching the sighted about Access
> Technology is a cool thing.
> I even had my dad who is sighted use Talk Back on his phone but he
> said after a day he wanted no more to do with it.
> Laura Shumate
> snowflake122188@gmail.com
> Business Phone: 254-300-7667
> Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684
>
>
>
> On 1/27/21, Glenn / Lenny <glennervin@cableone.net> wrote:
> > I would make a different point about wearing blindfolds.
> > In any situation, but especially the Blind service industry, the
> > blindfolds typically are not worn for empathy, they actually are or
> > should be worn so the wearer can learn non-visual skills, independent of
> sight.
> > If a sighted person is going to be teaching Blindness skills, then
> > that person needs to have confidence in the skills being taught.
> > Also, as far as being on a Jaws or any other list oriented to those
> > who use the associated products, it could be anyone, like the guy or
> > gal down the street who does not even use the product. As far as
> > rules go, although one could discriminate against the sighted, there
> would
> be no way to police it.
> > And really, who cares who joins any list, as long as they aren't a
> > problem lister.
> > Glenn
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Randy Barnett
> > To: main@jfw.groups.io
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member
> >
> >
> > Yes, AT instructors have to spend a week or two blindfolded so they
> > can empathize and understand what it is really like. without doing
> > this they aren't able to really understand what it is like for us.
> >
> >
> > On 1/27/2021 5:44 PM, David Diamond wrote:
> >
> >
> > I agree with Brian. At one of the guide dog schools, one of the
> > days all students have to wear a blind fold or night shade from after
> > Breakfast to supper. This is generally a total of 8 hours. Point?
> > So they rely on their guide dogs instead of their sight. Tie in? How
> > will the sighted know about the problems the VI sector have if they
> > are not aware of them. It drove me nuts when someone on the
Microsoft
> > disability help desk told me to click on the yellow X. Darling, if I
> > could see it I would not be calling your department.
> >
> >
> >
> > From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian
Vogel
> > Sent: January 27, 2021 5:04 PM
> > To: main@jfw.groups.io
> > Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member
> >
> >
> >
> > Well, unless there's some rule banning the sighted (in which case I
> > should have been gone, long ago), I can't see this as a problem.
> >
> > I think it's an excellent idea for sighted individuals working in
> > the VI sphere to join and learn from the groups related to same.
> > --
> >
> > Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042
> >
> > One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of
> > the shore for a very long time.
> >
> > ~ André Gide
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Laura Shumate
> snowflake122188@gmail.com
> Business Phone: 254-300-7667
> Emergency Phone: 717-510-0684
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--


moderated Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

David Diamond
 

For the trainer to wear a blind fold it shows whether the dog is indeed guiding them properly or they are in a sense directing the dog.  Some students have washed out at a guide dog school because they see an object such as a lamp post and to the sighted or ones who have residual vision it looks like the dog will run them right into it.  One student was constantly overriding the dog’s directions because he, the student saw the object and decided that the dog was not going to guide him around it.  I never forgot the incident where the person driving me to pick up supplies saw my guide dog and I headed for a cement garbage can at quite a speed, he said,, “I was too far away to yell out anything then your dog just took you around it.  I almost had a heart attack watching the entire thing unfold.” Getting back to screen readers, I do have some residual vision and can see things on the display it is just after about 30 seconds of reading something my eyes get tired, thus just use JAWS instead.    

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: January 28, 2021 7:18 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

 

On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 01:40 AM, David Diamond wrote:

This is already been touched on, it is one thing to teach a skill but when, as they say the rubber hits the road, does the teacher practice what they teach or does fear set in?

-
Fear sets in, which is entirely natural, as anyone I've ever known who was sighted and lost it will tell you.

I really don't get how there is not an understanding that sighted O&M teachers can know how to teach skills that they, themselves, are not using moment to moment, because they don't need to.  And when you don't need to do something, constantly, to negotiate your world it doesn't "come naturally" in exception circumstances.

We all operate with the sensory palette that we actually possess, no matter how we came to possess it, and if one of those is suddenly removed due to a temporary circumstance it tends to naturally make one uneasy, regardless of what one may know about compensatory strategies for that loss, even with in-depth knowledge in the abstract.

Think about how it would be for you to suddenly have no hearing by artificial means and have to operate in that way for a couple of hours.  It's not a realistic facsimile of how someone who's deaf actually operates in daily life if they've been deaf for any period of time.  Instant deprivation of a sense puts anyone who's experiencing it way off-kilter, and I'm certain a lot of people here know that all too well.  But that's not representative of what it is to live with it long term, as you adjust and become more skilled.  That's why I don't see why the "let's blindfold 'em" schemes are believed to be helpful or representative of anything other than "the panicked stage of being quickly deprived of a sense you normally depend on."  And I've seen very few panicked people be particularly good at anything.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Problem with Find Command in Chromium Browsers

Mario
 

Debby, to get back into the website where you can navigate as usual, you can press alt+d which puts you into the address bar and then shift+f6.

-------- Original Message --------
From: Debby Hill [mailto:dm-hill@comcast.net]
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, January 28, 2021, 10:14 AM
Subject: Problem with Find Command in Chromium Browsers
Adrian, thanks for the reminder on the system menu. I knew I needed to look at that, but was having brain freeze on how to get there.

Chris, both methods for doing the find actually do find what I am looking for, but to get to the results I have to press F6 and cycle through all of the bars to get back on the webpage with the result. JAWS or edge, I don't know which, gets stuck on the top line of the page. Neither arrowing or tabbing will move it from there.

Thanks for all of the help!

Debby

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 9:56 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Problem with Find Command in Chromium Browsers

Hmmm, are you saying it never starts the find command, or the find command isn't finding what you expect? If the first, ctrl-insert-f is supposed to work, and does everywhere I've ever tried it, ff, chrome, or edge. I'd call fs if that is the case.



On 1/28/2021 08:14, Debby Hill wrote:
I have tried control + insert F before and I just tried it now, and no
go! I am stuck at the top of the page.

By the way, in both cases control + insert + F and insert + F JAWS
says "JAWS find."

Thanks for trying!

Debby

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mario
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 9:04 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Problem with Find Command in Chromium Browsers

BTW, if NVDA ever should be needed to be used, it has it's own find
feature using the same keystrokes, insert+control+f.

-------- Original Message --------
From: Chris Hill [mailto:hillco@earthlink.net]
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Date: Thursday, January 28, 2021, 8:56 AM
Subject: Problem with Find Command in Chromium Browsers Hello.

Why are you using the browser's own find command? If you are in
virtual pc mode, the jaws find command is the one you will want to
use, it is insert-ctrl-f on the normal desktop layout. It will work much better.


CH



On 1/28/2021 07:21, Debby Hill wrote:

Hi all,

I am using Edge and Chrome with the latest Windows 10 and the latest
JAWS—that is the January update. I have been working on some fairly
large webpages, and when I do a Control + F to find something on a
page it seems that JAWS gets stuck at the top of the page. Neither
arrowing or tabbing up or down goes anywhere. The only way I can get
to the result is to press F6 to cycle through all of the various bars until I get back to the webpage.
It’s not a big problem, but it is time consuming, and it doesn’t seem
it should be happening. It is happening in both Edge and Chrome.

I generally work from my Mantis Q40 with blue tooth using the laptop
settings for JAWS keystrokes. I have tried going to my desktop
computer and changing to desktop layout and even using a different
braille display using usb, but no change.

By the way, the find command works correctly in IE, and with the
chromium browsers with JAWS 2020. Also, I have tried using control +
insert + F instead of just insert + F and no go.

I called Freedom Scientific and we repaired JAWS, but no change.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks for any help!

Take care and stay safe!

Debby

























.


moderated Re: Crosspost: Question about new member

 

On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 01:40 AM, David Diamond wrote:
This is already been touched on, it is one thing to teach a skill but when, as they say the rubber hits the road, does the teacher practice what they teach or does fear set in?
-
Fear sets in, which is entirely natural, as anyone I've ever known who was sighted and lost it will tell you.

I really don't get how there is not an understanding that sighted O&M teachers can know how to teach skills that they, themselves, are not using moment to moment, because they don't need to.  And when you don't need to do something, constantly, to negotiate your world it doesn't "come naturally" in exception circumstances.

We all operate with the sensory palette that we actually possess, no matter how we came to possess it, and if one of those is suddenly removed due to a temporary circumstance it tends to naturally make one uneasy, regardless of what one may know about compensatory strategies for that loss, even with in-depth knowledge in the abstract.

Think about how it would be for you to suddenly have no hearing by artificial means and have to operate in that way for a couple of hours.  It's not a realistic facsimile of how someone who's deaf actually operates in daily life if they've been deaf for any period of time.  Instant deprivation of a sense puts anyone who's experiencing it way off-kilter, and I'm certain a lot of people here know that all too well.  But that's not representative of what it is to live with it long term, as you adjust and become more skilled.  That's why I don't see why the "let's blindfold 'em" schemes are believed to be helpful or representative of anything other than "the panicked stage of being quickly deprived of a sense you normally depend on."  And I've seen very few panicked people be particularly good at anything.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide


moderated Re: Problem with Find Command in Chromium Browsers

Debby Hill
 

Adrian, thanks for the reminder on the system menu. I knew I needed to look at that, but was having brain freeze on how to get there.

Chris, both methods for doing the find actually do find what I am looking for, but to get to the results I have to press F6 and cycle through all of the bars to get back on the webpage with the result. JAWS or edge, I don't know which, gets stuck on the top line of the page. Neither arrowing or tabbing will move it from there.

Thanks for all of the help!

Debby

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 9:56 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Problem with Find Command in Chromium Browsers

Hmmm, are you saying it never starts the find command, or the find command isn't finding what you expect? If the first, ctrl-insert-f is supposed to work, and does everywhere I've ever tried it, ff, chrome, or edge. I'd call fs if that is the case.



On 1/28/2021 08:14, Debby Hill wrote:
I have tried control + insert F before and I just tried it now, and no
go! I am stuck at the top of the page.

By the way, in both cases control + insert + F and insert + F JAWS
says "JAWS find."

Thanks for trying!

Debby

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mario
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 9:04 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Problem with Find Command in Chromium Browsers

BTW, if NVDA ever should be needed to be used, it has it's own find
feature using the same keystrokes, insert+control+f.

-------- Original Message --------
From: Chris Hill [mailto:hillco@earthlink.net]
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Date: Thursday, January 28, 2021, 8:56 AM
Subject: Problem with Find Command in Chromium Browsers Hello.

Why are you using the browser's own find command? If you are in
virtual pc mode, the jaws find command is the one you will want to
use, it is insert-ctrl-f on the normal desktop layout. It will work much better.


CH



On 1/28/2021 07:21, Debby Hill wrote:

Hi all,

I am using Edge and Chrome with the latest Windows 10 and the latest
JAWS—that is the January update. I have been working on some fairly
large webpages, and when I do a Control + F to find something on a
page it seems that JAWS gets stuck at the top of the page. Neither
arrowing or tabbing up or down goes anywhere. The only way I can get
to the result is to press F6 to cycle through all of the various bars until I get back to the webpage.
It’s not a big problem, but it is time consuming, and it doesn’t seem
it should be happening. It is happening in both Edge and Chrome.

I generally work from my Mantis Q40 with blue tooth using the laptop
settings for JAWS keystrokes. I have tried going to my desktop
computer and changing to desktop layout and even using a different
braille display using usb, but no change.

By the way, the find command works correctly in IE, and with the
chromium browsers with JAWS 2020. Also, I have tried using control +
insert + F instead of just insert + F and no go.

I called Freedom Scientific and we repaired JAWS, but no change.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks for any help!

Take care and stay safe!

Debby













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