Date   

moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

John Covici
 

I want it to read exactly as it is, I am a human and I can actually
convert!! And I still get abreviations even though I have them off in
Jaws, so how do I turn them off in Vocalizer -- do I need their driver
and where do I get it if so?


On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 03:48:42 -0400,
Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

Dates is a different matter.

Tom is a US synth, so it is going to read dates in US style. For example, 11/09 is the 11th of September in the UK, but would be read by Tom as the 9th of November.

Note: it is only the US that have dates upside down. 😊

All the best

Steve

--
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T: +44(0)1438-742286
M: +44(0)7956-334938
F: +44(0)1438-759589
E: steve@...
W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Covici
Sent: 16 September 2020 20:15
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

And you should see what Tom does with dates! Its awful and there is no dictionary entry that would solve it.

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 12:56:29 -0400,
Richard Turner wrote:

[1 <text/plain; us-ascii (quoted-printable)>] All I can say now is
that the Tom voice does not say good.
I loaded Nathan to check, and yes, Nathan says good.
If entering gd in the dictionary and then g d with a space between them in the replacement doesn't work, then it is the Nathan voice being stubborn and not honoring the Jaws setting.



Richard
"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must
pass himself," and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of
ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have
regretted not granting grace to others, I've never once regretted
extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin Minor
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 9:43 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Hi.

I'm using the Nathan Compact voice.

Oh well, it is what it is, but it's annoying.

Kevin and Jilly

From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Richard
Turner
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 12:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

I'm taking back everything I said on this topic.
Kevin, my Vocalizer Tom Enhanced speaks your example perfectly as g d not good.

Which voice are you using exactly?

And, I have actually never heard Grahams mail for gmail.



Richard
"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must
pass himself," and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of
ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have
regretted not granting grace to others, I've never once regretted
extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Kevin
Minor
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 8:20 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Hi.

I'm encountering an issue with Vocalizer and JAWS. It's substituting what it thinks something should be, and it's wrong. Let me illustrate.

There is a ham radio called the GD-77. Vocalizer says it's the good 77, and that's not right. The letters should be spelled out. I tried to do a dictionary entry for the word, but it didn't work. I also never knew Google had a service called grams mail. This is annoying, and because of it I'm back to good old Eloquence. I prefer Vocalizer's speech, but not with all the so-called "helpful" abbreviation conversions.

Thanks in advance.

Kevin and Jilly






[2 <text/html; us-ascii (quoted-printable)>]
--
Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is:
How do
you spend it?

John Covici wb2una
covici@...












--
Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is:
How do
you spend it?

John Covici wb2una
covici@...


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Steve Nutt
 

Then I would say JAWS isn't throwing the correct switch, it is as Brian V
suggests, just interpreting its own abbreviations.

CodeFactory does it globally, and doesn't need to know what screen reader
you are using. It does it at the synth level. Acapela can do this too.

All the best

Steve

--
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
T: +44(0)1438-742286
M: +44(0)7956-334938
F: +44(0)1438-759589
E: steve@...
W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Covici
Sent: 16 September 2020 20:19
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks
works for abbreviations?

Even with the setting off, I still get some expansions, obviously done by
the synthesizer.

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 12:32:06 -0400,
Mike B wrote:

[1 <text/plain; UTF-8 (8bit)>]
Hi Steve,

Jaws does have an option to expand abbreviations or not, it's in the
Settings Center, in both the applications Settings Center and Settings
Center default all applications. Look here.
1. Insert + 6, to open the Settings Center while in an specific
application, or then press, Control, shift + D, for default all
applications.

2. Down arrow to, Web / HTML / PDFs closed, and right arrow to open.

3. Down arrow to, Reading closed, and right arrow to open.

4. Down arrow to, Expand Abbreviations, and there you go.

Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool. Go dodgers!

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Nutt
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it
thinks works for abbreviations?


Hi David,



I wish JAWS would have an option to not expand abbreviations.



If you buy CodeFactory?s version of Vocalizer, it has a setting in its
own settings to disable abbreviation expansion. Apparently, it is a
screen reader flag, so JAWS should be able to do it.



All the best


Steve



--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk



From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David
Goldfield
Sent: 16 September 2020 11:35
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it
thinks works for abbreviations?



The fact is that these modern, human-sounding synthesizers are
absolutely notorious for doing this. To me it's maddening as I don't
want my reader, human or synthetic, to substitute what's on the screen
for what it thinks are the correct replacements based on commonly used
abbreviations. This is one reason why there will always be a place for
voices like Eloquence and ESpeak.

David Goldfield,Blindness Assistive Technology SpecialistJAWS
Certified,
2019 WWW.DavidGoldfield.orgOn 9/15/2020 11:38 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

What did you use in the dictionary?

You could try a regular expression match on: GD-(\d{1,}) and replace
with Gee Dee \1
This should make GD- followed by one or more numeric digits read as
Gee Dee followed by the actual number that the string of digits
represents.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome
it.
~ Lawrence Krauss








[2 <text/html; UTF-8 (quoted-printable)>]
--
Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is:
How do
you spend it?

John Covici wb2una
covici@...


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Steve Nutt
 

Hi,

Dates is a different matter.

Tom is a US synth, so it is going to read dates in US style. For example, 11/09 is the 11th of September in the UK, but would be read by Tom as the 9th of November.

Note: it is only the US that have dates upside down. 😊

All the best

Steve

--
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
T: +44(0)1438-742286
M: +44(0)7956-334938
F: +44(0)1438-759589
E: steve@...
W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Covici
Sent: 16 September 2020 20:15
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

And you should see what Tom does with dates! Its awful and there is no dictionary entry that would solve it.

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 12:56:29 -0400,
Richard Turner wrote:

[1 <text/plain; us-ascii (quoted-printable)>] All I can say now is
that the Tom voice does not say good.
I loaded Nathan to check, and yes, Nathan says good.
If entering gd in the dictionary and then g d with a space between them in the replacement doesn't work, then it is the Nathan voice being stubborn and not honoring the Jaws setting.



Richard
"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must
pass himself," and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of
ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have
regretted not granting grace to others, I've never once regretted
extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin Minor
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 9:43 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Hi.

I'm using the Nathan Compact voice.

Oh well, it is what it is, but it's annoying.

Kevin and Jilly

From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Richard
Turner
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 12:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

I'm taking back everything I said on this topic.
Kevin, my Vocalizer Tom Enhanced speaks your example perfectly as g d not good.

Which voice are you using exactly?

And, I have actually never heard Grahams mail for gmail.



Richard
"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must
pass himself," and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of
ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have
regretted not granting grace to others, I've never once regretted
extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Kevin
Minor
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 8:20 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Hi.

I'm encountering an issue with Vocalizer and JAWS. It's substituting what it thinks something should be, and it's wrong. Let me illustrate.

There is a ham radio called the GD-77. Vocalizer says it's the good 77, and that's not right. The letters should be spelled out. I tried to do a dictionary entry for the word, but it didn't work. I also never knew Google had a service called grams mail. This is annoying, and because of it I'm back to good old Eloquence. I prefer Vocalizer's speech, but not with all the so-called "helpful" abbreviation conversions.

Thanks in advance.

Kevin and Jilly






[2 <text/html; us-ascii (quoted-printable)>]
--
Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is:
How do
you spend it?

John Covici wb2una
covici@...


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Mike,

 

And it does seem to work for me.  It intercepts the Vocalizer synth and doesn’t expand abbreviations.

 

So I think JAWS is throwing the screen reader flag.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: 16 September 2020 18:33
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

Hi All,

 

Steve said:

 

I wish JAWS would have an option to not expand abbreviations. 

 

I was only showing that Jaws does have an option to expand abbreviations, not to say it was going to fix the way Jaws or other voices would read.


Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.  Go dodgers!

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 10:17 AM

Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

Mike,

           What you suggest will work to force JAWS to pass what amounts to the full word for it's "known list of abbreviations" to the synth.  But it does not get the desired effect when it's off, and the synth itself has a "known list of abbreviations" that it expands on its own, which is what seems to be the issue here.  Some don't want the synth doing that, ever, and you would either have to have a way to instruct the synth to turn that feature off, or create exceptions that the screen reader would pass to the synth to force letter by letter announcement.

David,

             Even though I said earlier it was beyond the scope of this discussion, I absolutely love playing with regular expressions, so here are three that would solve the street/saint issue along with the TV issue:

Regular Expression                     Substitution

[sS][tT]\.?\s(\w+)\s[sS][tT]\.?               Saint \1 Street

 

[sS][tT]\.?\s(\w+)(?!\s[sS][tT]\.?)          Saint \1

 

[Tt][Vv][Ss] Tee Veez

And the one related to television will accept the three letters side by side in any combination of capitalization as it is written now.


--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Richard,

 

The only thing I can think of is did you set it in All Applications, or the one you were in?  Do a Control+Shift+D before you change the setting.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Turner
Sent: 16 September 2020 18:05
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

Mike,

These are good instructions.

Sadly, the Nathan voice ignores those settings.

I’ve tried it with expand abbreviations uncheck and checked and the same with the one below that for acronym’s, and Nathan always says good instead of gd, so Nathan must be a braille reader, 😁.

 

 

 

Richard

"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must pass himself,” and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have regretted not granting grace to others, I’ve never once regretted extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 9:32 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

Hi Steve,

 

Jaws does have an option to expand abbreviations or not, it's in the Settings Center, in both the applications Settings Center and Settings Center default all applications.  Look here.

1. Insert + 6, to open the Settings Center while in an specific application, or then press, Control, shift + D, for default all applications.

 

2. Down arrow to, Web / HTML / PDFs closed, and right arrow to open.

 

3. Down arrow to, Reading closed, and right arrow to open.

 

4. Down arrow to, Expand Abbreviations, and there you go.


Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.  Go dodgers!

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 8:55 AM

Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

Hi David,

 

I wish JAWS would have an option to not expand abbreviations.

 

If you buy CodeFactory’s version of Vocalizer, it has a setting in its own settings to disable abbreviation expansion.  Apparently, it is a screen reader flag, so JAWS should be able to do it.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: 16 September 2020 11:35
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

The fact is that these modern, human-sounding synthesizers are absolutely notorious for doing this. To me it's maddening as I don't want my reader, human or synthetic, to substitute what's on the screen for what it thinks are the correct replacements based on commonly used abbreviations. This is one reason why there will always be a place for voices like Eloquence and ESpeak. 

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019
 
WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 9/15/2020 11:38 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

What did you use in the dictionary?

You could try a regular expression match on:  GD-(\d{1,})    and replace with Gee Dee \1
This should make GD- followed by one or more numeric digits read as Gee Dee followed by the actual number that the string of digits represents.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Steve Nutt
 

Wow Mike, I’ve used JAWS for years, and haven’t seen that one.  And it works too.

 

Thanks ever so.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

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T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: 16 September 2020 17:32
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

Hi Steve,

 

Jaws does have an option to expand abbreviations or not, it's in the Settings Center, in both the applications Settings Center and Settings Center default all applications.  Look here.

1. Insert + 6, to open the Settings Center while in an specific application, or then press, Control, shift + D, for default all applications.

 

2. Down arrow to, Web / HTML / PDFs closed, and right arrow to open.

 

3. Down arrow to, Reading closed, and right arrow to open.

 

4. Down arrow to, Expand Abbreviations, and there you go.


Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.  Go dodgers!

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 8:55 AM

Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

Hi David,

 

I wish JAWS would have an option to not expand abbreviations.

 

If you buy CodeFactory’s version of Vocalizer, it has a setting in its own settings to disable abbreviation expansion.  Apparently, it is a screen reader flag, so JAWS should be able to do it.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: 16 September 2020 11:35
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

The fact is that these modern, human-sounding synthesizers are absolutely notorious for doing this. To me it's maddening as I don't want my reader, human or synthetic, to substitute what's on the screen for what it thinks are the correct replacements based on commonly used abbreviations. This is one reason why there will always be a place for voices like Eloquence and ESpeak. 

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019
 
WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 9/15/2020 11:38 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

What did you use in the dictionary?

You could try a regular expression match on:  GD-(\d{1,})    and replace with Gee Dee \1
This should make GD- followed by one or more numeric digits read as Gee Dee followed by the actual number that the string of digits represents.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Steve Nutt
 

Again, it’s switchable.

 

Check in the Acapela app itself.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: 16 September 2020 17:30
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

Acapella, which I've used with another screen reader, takes this to a whole new level with the text string TVs, as in "how many TVS do you own" as it reads the string as "t versus"

 

David Goldfield,
Assistive Technology Specialist
 
JAWS Certified, 2019
 
www.davidgoldfield.org

On 9/16/2020 12:15 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

I’m taking back everything I said on this topic.

Kevin, my Vocalizer Tom Enhanced speaks your example perfectly as g d not good.

 

Which voice are you using exactly?

 

And, I have actually never heard Grahams  mail for gmail.

 

 

 

Richard

"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must pass himself,” and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have regretted not granting grace to others, I’ve never once regretted extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin Minor
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 8:20 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

Hi.

 

I’m encountering an issue with Vocalizer and JAWS. It’s substituting what it thinks something should be, and it’s wrong. Let me illustrate.

 

There is a ham radio called the GD-77. Vocalizer says it’s the good 77, and that’s not right. The letters should be spelled out. I tried to do a dictionary entry for the word, but it didn’t work. I also never knew Google had a service called grams mail. This is annoying, and because of it I’m back to good old Eloquence. I prefer Vocalizer’s speech, but not with all the so-called “helpful” abbreviation conversions.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Kevin and Jilly


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Steve Nutt
 

That’s exactly what CodeFactory does, so I don’t know why Brian was writing all that, since everyone can have what they want, and the default is the same as Vispero’s.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: 16 September 2020 17:26
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

Brian, you wrote:
>>There is no winning here.
 
Perhaps not for everyone. Ideally, what I think would be a reasonable solution would be a screen reader setting to either allow or enable synth-specific exceptions or to have them disabled. Disabling them would basically give you a "what you see is what you hear" experience. I realize that some users might find it maddening to go through a list of addresses and continually hear s t and b l v d instead of street and boulevard but your examples of s t pronounced as saint instead of street is why I think this is so important and is personally one of the reasons for why I think Eloquence still has many users.
 
 
David Goldfield,
Assistive Technology Specialist
 
JAWS Certified, 2019
 
www.davidgoldfield.org

On 9/16/2020 12:16 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 11:57 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Again, Nuance have already included it as a screen reader flag, so it’s up to Vispero to put a switch in the UI.

-
But it is important to note that the responsibility still lies with the synth, not the screen reader, in terms of how it behaves.  And I'll bet that once this ability to pass the flag/switch to the synth is implemented, it's going to result in quite a lot of complaints about it not being selective, and lots of things that one might want or expect to be pronounced "in full" that are abbreviations will be letter-by-letter instead.

There is no winning here.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Steve Nutt
 

Hi,

 

I doubt it.  CodeFactory have abbreviations turned on by default, so no-one notices, unless they change the flag.  It also works with JAWS, if you select their version of the synth, so I’m a happy camper.  Oh and it works with NVDA, Supernova and System Access, that’s all I have to test with.

 

Not only that, the CodeFactory driver seems to be more up to date than Vispero’s offering.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: 16 September 2020 17:17
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 11:57 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Again, Nuance have already included it as a screen reader flag, so it’s up to Vispero to put a switch in the UI.

-
But it is important to note that the responsibility still lies with the synth, not the screen reader, in terms of how it behaves.  And I'll bet that once this ability to pass the flag/switch to the synth is implemented, it's going to result in quite a lot of complaints about it not being selective, and lots of things that one might want or expect to be pronounced "in full" that are abbreviations will be letter-by-letter instead.

There is no winning here.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

John Covici
 

Even with the setting off, I still get some expansions, obviously done
by the synthesizer.

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 12:32:06 -0400,
Mike B wrote:

[1 <text/plain; UTF-8 (8bit)>]
Hi Steve,

Jaws does have an option to expand abbreviations or not, it's in the
Settings Center, in both the applications Settings Center and Settings
Center default all applications. Look here.
1. Insert + 6, to open the Settings Center while in an specific application,
or then press, Control, shift + D, for default all applications.

2. Down arrow to, Web / HTML / PDFs closed, and right arrow to open.

3. Down arrow to, Reading closed, and right arrow to open.

4. Down arrow to, Expand Abbreviations, and there you go.

Take care. Mike. Sent from my iBarstool. Go dodgers!

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Nutt
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks
works for abbreviations?


Hi David,



I wish JAWS would have an option to not expand abbreviations.



If you buy CodeFactory’s version of Vocalizer, it has a setting in its own
settings to disable abbreviation expansion. Apparently, it is a screen
reader flag, so JAWS should be able to do it.



All the best


Steve



--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk



From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: 16 September 2020 11:35
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks
works for abbreviations?



The fact is that these modern, human-sounding synthesizers are absolutely
notorious for doing this. To me it's maddening as I don't want my reader,
human or synthetic, to substitute what's on the screen for what it thinks
are the correct replacements based on commonly used abbreviations. This is
one reason why there will always be a place for voices like Eloquence and
ESpeak.

David Goldfield,Blindness Assistive Technology SpecialistJAWS Certified,
2019 WWW.DavidGoldfield.orgOn 9/15/2020 11:38 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

What did you use in the dictionary?

You could try a regular expression match on: GD-(\d{1,}) and replace
with Gee Dee \1
This should make GD- followed by one or more numeric digits read as Gee
Dee followed by the actual number that the string of digits represents.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
~ Lawrence Krauss








[2 <text/html; UTF-8 (quoted-printable)>]
--
Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is:
How do
you spend it?

John Covici wb2una
covici@...


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

John Covici
 

And you should see what Tom does with dates! Its awful and there is
no dictionary entry that would solve it.

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 12:56:29 -0400,
Richard Turner wrote:

[1 <text/plain; us-ascii (quoted-printable)>]
All I can say now is that the Tom voice does not say good.
I loaded Nathan to check, and yes, Nathan says good.
If entering gd in the dictionary and then g d with a space between them in the replacement doesn't work, then it is the Nathan voice being stubborn and not honoring the Jaws setting.



Richard
"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must pass himself," and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have regretted not granting grace to others, I've never once regretted extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin Minor
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 9:43 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Hi.

I'm using the Nathan Compact voice.

Oh well, it is what it is, but it's annoying.

Kevin and Jilly

From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io> <main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Richard Turner
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 12:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

I'm taking back everything I said on this topic.
Kevin, my Vocalizer Tom Enhanced speaks your example perfectly as g d not good.

Which voice are you using exactly?

And, I have actually never heard Grahams mail for gmail.



Richard
"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must pass himself," and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have regretted not granting grace to others, I've never once regretted extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io> <main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Kevin Minor
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 8:20 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Hi.

I'm encountering an issue with Vocalizer and JAWS. It's substituting what it thinks something should be, and it's wrong. Let me illustrate.

There is a ham radio called the GD-77. Vocalizer says it's the good 77, and that's not right. The letters should be spelled out. I tried to do a dictionary entry for the word, but it didn't work. I also never knew Google had a service called grams mail. This is annoying, and because of it I'm back to good old Eloquence. I prefer Vocalizer's speech, but not with all the so-called "helpful" abbreviation conversions.

Thanks in advance.

Kevin and Jilly






[2 <text/html; us-ascii (quoted-printable)>]
--
Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is:
How do
you spend it?

John Covici wb2una
covici@...


moderated Re: JAWS - Can it use regular expressions (regex) pattern matching?

Richard Turner
 

Thanks Brian, and all,

Maybe Jaws 2021 will and I will tax my brain then if it does.

 

Later,

 

 

Richard

"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must pass himself,” and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have regretted not granting grace to others, I’ve never once regretted extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 10:39 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: JAWS - Can it use regular expressions (regex) pattern matching?

 

Joseph,

           Thanks.  Unless I hear otherwise then that means discussions of regex on the JAWS group is really entirely off topic because you can't use it in conjunction with JAWS.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: JAWS - Can it use regular expressions (regex) pattern matching?

 

Joseph,

           Thanks.  Unless I hear otherwise then that means discussions of regex on the JAWS group is really entirely off topic because you can't use it in conjunction with JAWS.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Regular Expressions question, was about abbreviations

 

Richard,

           I am going to wait on answering this on the group until after I get a definitive answer as to whether JAWS supports regular expression syntax in pattern matching for match/substitute pairs.  If it does, then discussing how regular expressions work, at least to some extent, is on-topic because it's something a JAWS user might employ.  If JAWS support this, then it's entirely off-topic for this group, though I'd be happy to discuss it privately.

           There are lots of beginners guides to regular expressions available on the web and many of them will do a better job walking folks through than I might.  

           But, because I said this earlier I'll repeat it again on the assumption that JAWS does support regular expression matching, to solve the original questioner's problem one would use:
                                 GD-(\d{1,})      or , if you don't care whether either the G or D or both are upper or lower case:  [Gg][Dd]-(\d{1,}) 
as the pattern match and:
                                 Gee Dee \1
as the substitution.

All of the above presumes you do not want the dash pronounced.  If you did then the substitution would be:  Gee Dee Dash \1
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Mike B
 


Hi All,
 
Steve said:
 
I wish JAWS would have an option to not expand abbreviations. 
 
I was only showing that Jaws does have an option to expand abbreviations, not to say it was going to fix the way Jaws or other voices would read.

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.  Go dodgers!

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Mike,

           What you suggest will work to force JAWS to pass what amounts to the full word for it's "known list of abbreviations" to the synth.  But it does not get the desired effect when it's off, and the synth itself has a "known list of abbreviations" that it expands on its own, which is what seems to be the issue here.  Some don't want the synth doing that, ever, and you would either have to have a way to instruct the synth to turn that feature off, or create exceptions that the screen reader would pass to the synth to force letter by letter announcement.

David,

             Even though I said earlier it was beyond the scope of this discussion, I absolutely love playing with regular expressions, so here are three that would solve the street/saint issue along with the TV issue:

Regular Expression                     Substitution
[sS][tT]\.?\s(\w+)\s[sS][tT]\.?               Saint \1 Street
 
[sS][tT]\.?\s(\w+)(?!\s[sS][tT]\.?)          Saint \1
 
[Tt][Vv][Ss] Tee Veez

And the one related to television will accept the three letters side by side in any combination of capitalization as it is written now.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: JAWS - Can it use regular expressions (regex) pattern matching?

 

Hi,

I don’t think JAWS dictionary manager will let you enter regular expressions.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 10:29 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: JAWS - Can it use regular expressions (regex) pattern matching?

 

First, I'll admit I'm being lazy as I don't want to restart my machine just so I can test this in 40-minute mode, and I know at least one of the regulars here will know the answer of the top of their heads.

If I'm trying to create a pattern match and substitution pair, is there an option for regular expression syntax in the pattern match?  I honestly cannot remember whether JAWS definitely supports this or not.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated JAWS - Can it use regular expressions (regex) pattern matching?

 

First, I'll admit I'm being lazy as I don't want to restart my machine just so I can test this in 40-minute mode, and I know at least one of the regulars here will know the answer of the top of their heads.

If I'm trying to create a pattern match and substitution pair, is there an option for regular expression syntax in the pattern match?  I honestly cannot remember whether JAWS definitely supports this or not.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Regular Expressions question, was about abbreviations

Richard Turner
 

Brian,

I would like to learn how to apply this in other situations,

Could you give a brief explanation of what is happening here?  Why the double letters in brackets? 

 

To take Kevin’s issue, would [gg][dd] g d solve the ham radio model issue?

 

Thanks for your help in understanding this.

Richard

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 10:17 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

Mike,

           What you suggest will work to force JAWS to pass what amounts to the full word for it's "known list of abbreviations" to the synth.  But it does not get the desired effect when it's off, and the synth itself has a "known list of abbreviations" that it expands on its own, which is what seems to be the issue here.  Some don't want the synth doing that, ever, and you would either have to have a way to instruct the synth to turn that feature off, or create exceptions that the screen reader would pass to the synth to force letter by letter announcement.

David,

             Even though I said earlier it was beyond the scope of this discussion, I absolutely love playing with regular expressions, so here are three that would solve the street/saint issue along with the TV issue:

Regular Expression                     Substitution

[sS][tT]\.?\s(\w+)\s[sS][tT]\.?               Saint \1 Street

 

[sS][tT]\.?\s(\w+)(?!\s[sS][tT]\.?)          Saint \1

 

[Tt][Vv][Ss] Tee Veez

And the one related to television will accept the three letters side by side in any combination of capitalization as it is written now.

 

 

 

Richard

"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must pass himself,” and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have regretted not granting grace to others, I’ve never once regretted extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

 


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

Mike,

           What you suggest will work to force JAWS to pass what amounts to the full word for it's "known list of abbreviations" to the synth.  But it does not get the desired effect when it's off, and the synth itself has a "known list of abbreviations" that it expands on its own, which is what seems to be the issue here.  Some don't want the synth doing that, ever, and you would either have to have a way to instruct the synth to turn that feature off, or create exceptions that the screen reader would pass to the synth to force letter by letter announcement.

David,

             Even though I said earlier it was beyond the scope of this discussion, I absolutely love playing with regular expressions, so here are three that would solve the street/saint issue along with the TV issue:

Regular Expression                     Substitution
[sS][tT]\.?\s(\w+)\s[sS][tT]\.?               Saint \1 Street
 
[sS][tT]\.?\s(\w+)(?!\s[sS][tT]\.?)          Saint \1
 
[Tt][Vv][Ss] Tee Veez

And the one related to television will accept the three letters side by side in any combination of capitalization as it is written now.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


moderated Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

Richard Turner
 

Mike,

These are good instructions.

Sadly, the Nathan voice ignores those settings.

I’ve tried it with expand abbreviations uncheck and checked and the same with the one below that for acronym’s, and Nathan always says good instead of gd, so Nathan must be a braille reader, 😁.

 

 

Richard

"He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he must pass himself,” and we forget that only grace can break the cycle of ancient hatreds among peoples. (It is notable that while I have regretted not granting grace to others, I’ve never once regretted extending it.)" - Edward Herbert

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 9:32 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

Hi Steve,

 

Jaws does have an option to expand abbreviations or not, it's in the Settings Center, in both the applications Settings Center and Settings Center default all applications.  Look here.

1. Insert + 6, to open the Settings Center while in an specific application, or then press, Control, shift + D, for default all applications.

 

2. Down arrow to, Web / HTML / PDFs closed, and right arrow to open.

 

3. Down arrow to, Reading closed, and right arrow to open.

 

4. Down arrow to, Expand Abbreviations, and there you go.


Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.  Go dodgers!

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 8:55 AM

Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

Hi David,

 

I wish JAWS would have an option to not expand abbreviations.

 

If you buy CodeFactory’s version of Vocalizer, it has a setting in its own settings to disable abbreviation expansion.  Apparently, it is a screen reader flag, so JAWS should be able to do it.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: 16 September 2020 11:35
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a way to not have Vocalizer substitute what it thinks works for abbreviations?

 

The fact is that these modern, human-sounding synthesizers are absolutely notorious for doing this. To me it's maddening as I don't want my reader, human or synthetic, to substitute what's on the screen for what it thinks are the correct replacements based on commonly used abbreviations. This is one reason why there will always be a place for voices like Eloquence and ESpeak. 

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019
 
WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 9/15/2020 11:38 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

What did you use in the dictionary?

You could try a regular expression match on:  GD-(\d{1,})    and replace with Gee Dee \1
This should make GD- followed by one or more numeric digits read as Gee Dee followed by the actual number that the string of digits represents.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss