Date   

moderated Re: allrecipes.com, searchbox missing

Bill White <billwhite92701@...>
 

Hi, Ann. Maybe it has something to do with the browser's cache. Try refreshing the page with CONTROL plus F5. This should bypass anything in the cache, and give you the original page, from which nothing has been searched.

 

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ann Byrne
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2020 8:49 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: allrecipes.com, searchbox missing

 

Working with a student on allrecipes.com.  Monday when  we opened the site on her computer there was a searchbox and JAWS read “find a recipe”.  Wednesday, when we opened the site, there was no searchbox.  I did a JAWS find for ‘find a recipe”; nada.  Did a JAWS find for “find”; nothing.  I opened the site on my computer and there was the searchbox.  I double checked the address bars on both machines and they are the same.

 

Where the heck has the searchbox gone?  How do I rediscover it?

 

Thanks for any magic you can shed on this.

 

Ann

 

 


moderated allrecipes.com, searchbox missing

Ann Byrne
 

Working with a student on allrecipes.com.  Monday when  we opened the site on her computer there was a searchbox and JAWS read “find a recipe”.  Wednesday, when we opened the site, there was no searchbox.  I did a JAWS find for ‘find a recipe”; nada.  Did a JAWS find for “find”; nothing.  I opened the site on my computer and there was the searchbox.  I double checked the address bars on both machines and they are the same.

 

Where the heck has the searchbox gone?  How do I rediscover it?

 

Thanks for any magic you can shed on this.

 

Ann

 

 


moderated javascript linting tool

HH. Smith Jr.
 

Hi,

 

Are there any accessible javascrip linting tool out there that is accessible.

 

Thx,


moderated Re: Is Python coding something I can do with JAWS?

Cohn, Jonathan
 

One good feature of EdSharp is that if you prefer using C like blocking code instead of Python indentation, EdSharp has a way of then converting that into indentation. 
Microsoft has been working hard at making Visual Studio Code screen reader accessible and I believe that they have a syntax system that understands python syntax.  


moderated Re: puzzling problem with Outlook rules for managing emails

Van Lant, Robin
 

Bill,

I have a few suggestions to explore.  First of all, I’ll caveat this with a disclaimer that I don’t like the way the rules wizard works now and had to use a combo of the JAWS and PC cursors to even read the options.   On each of several accounts, I have One set to move group email messages (such as for this JAWS group) into a folder, which is what you are also doing.   Looking at my settings for this particular rule, I see something that could be of use.  Go into the Rules manager and select the rule that moves your group emails to a subfolder.  I think you are right that it should be the first one in the list in order to be done first.  When I open the options to change this rule, I think it’s on the second screen (after clicking “Next’) that I see two options for my rule at the top.  The first one that I have checked is “stop processing more rules” and the next one is about moving it into the specified JAWS subfolder.  See if that first option is available to you and if it is checked.    That is the only setting I see in the options that might do the trick.

 

If the above doesn’t’ work,  maybe you can see if you can apply an exception to each of your general copy rules that will ignore those group messages.  I saw some exception options on, I believe, the third screen in the dialog where you change the rule. What I don’t know how to do is to add the text;  I cannot figure out the new method Microsoft has for providing the text to look for in given messages. 

 

Finally, a last resort option to explore.  Go to the inbox where you put all items in your general copy rule.  From there, create a rule that moves all messages from the groups directly to trash.  If this is a copy of the message already stored in your subfolder by a previous rule, this should work.

 

Oh, and I guess one more notion is to see if there is a way to view all of your inboxes in one view.  I like that I can easily do this on my iPhone – allowing me to monitor personal and work emails at one glance,  sometimes, then easily separate  them again, but I have not tried to set this up in Outlook.  I bet there is a way to do it.

 

Robin

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Spiry
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 6:33 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: puzzling problem with Outlook rules for managing emails

 

Hi list.

I use Windows 10, MS office 360 with the issue specifically relating to Outlook

 

I use multiple email accounts in outlook and set up a rule in certain of my email accounts to copy incoming emails into those accounts over into my main default or “favorites” inbox. I do this to consolidate  emails into a single inbox so I don’t have to check each account separately. I’ll refer to this as the “general copy rule”.

 

However, I receive emails from various list serves etc that I don’t want to be copied into my default inbox but rather want to be directly moved into subfolders I have setup before the general copy rule above is triggered.

 

Unfortunately, The move to subfolder rules are moving the list serve emails to the target subfolders but not before the general copy rule runs and moves a copy into my main inbox, messy and annoying.

 

I’ve tried to figure out how to set the rules to make them work as desired, including  changing the order of the rules (i.e. placing the general copy rule at the top and at the bottom of the list of rules in the rule management dialog, but without success.

 

I suspect there is another setting or two in the rule setup that I should be using but cannot figure it out. Anyone have some expertise or insight into the “rules” of outlook rules who would offer some advice?

 

 

Thanks much.

 

Billy

 

Billy Spiry

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moderated Re: puzzling problem with Outlook rules for managing emails

Bill Spiry
 

Thanks.

 

 

Bill Spiry, Attorney at Law

Spiry Law LLC

 

142 W. 8th Ave.

Eugene, Oregon 97401

(541) 600-3301

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From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rayn Darren
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 6:02 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: puzzling problem with Outlook rules for managing emails

 

HI Bill,

Try this:

  1. Create new rule
  2. Advance options
  3. Check the box for specific words in to/cc/bcc/subject depending on which you wish
  4. Enter the specific words
  5. Save

That should work. Best of luck!

Sarah

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Spiry
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 5:33 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: puzzling problem with Outlook rules for managing emails

 

Hi list.

I use Windows 10, MS office 360 with the issue specifically relating to Outlook

 

I use multiple email accounts in outlook and set up a rule in certain of my email accounts to copy incoming emails into those accounts over into my main default or “favorites” inbox. I do this to consolidate  emails into a single inbox so I don’t have to check each account separately. I’ll refer to this as the “general copy rule”.

 

However, I receive emails from various list serves etc that I don’t want to be copied into my default inbox but rather want to be directly moved into subfolders I have setup before the general copy rule above is triggered.

 

Unfortunately, The move to subfolder rules are moving the list serve emails to the target subfolders but not before the general copy rule runs and moves a copy into my main inbox, messy and annoying.

 

I’ve tried to figure out how to set the rules to make them work as desired, including  changing the order of the rules (i.e. placing the general copy rule at the top and at the bottom of the list of rules in the rule management dialog, but without success.

 

I suspect there is another setting or two in the rule setup that I should be using but cannot figure it out. Anyone have some expertise or insight into the “rules” of outlook rules who would offer some advice?

 

 

Thanks much.

 

Billy

 

Billy Spiry

b.s.spiry@...

 

 


moderated Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Just remember to also switch to the Jaws cursor, if you hear “Jaws cursor” chances are you may not benefit from it, but if Jaws announces “scan cursor” then it’s worth exploring the screen with the up and down arrows to see what Jaws may or may not read.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 11:15 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Sieghard:

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I do not intend to go back to Jaws 2018, for many of the reasons you suggest.

 

As I tried to say earlier, my approach to the Support Assist issue will be to try Mike’s touch cursor keys to see if I can get anything to work, and if not, to seek sighted assistance to do the updates.

 

They are Dell updates, not Windows updates, so I can’t believe they are totally necessary all of the time.

 

Again, I appreciate your reply.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:58 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

I don’t think Patrick’s experience with Jaws 2020 is universal and in fact he did not say that this Support Assist from Del works better with Jaws 2018, he said that the previous version of Support Assist worked, but that Support Assist version 3 was inaccessible and he merely said “It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!!”

Every piece of software has bugs and for me Jaws 2020 certainly works a lot better than Jaws 2018 or 2019 because Vispero has been and is making changes which allow Jaws 2020 to read a lot more again with the Jaws cursor and in Windows 10 apps the new Jaws can cursor may often act very similar to the Jaws cursor previously and it will read stuff you otherwise would have no access to. If this Support Assist software is in fact a Windows 10 app the scan cursor may be of great benefit here. I don’t own a Del computer so I can’t say and in fact on my Asus Zenbook which had a similar piece of software on it but of course from Asus I completely reinstalled Windows 10 to get rid of all that stuff and have a basic, clean install of Windows 10.

You should further keep in mind that if I remember correctly Jaws 2018 does not support the emoji panel in Windows 10 and by now there may be other issues, certainly as more and more Windows 10 updates are released the more likely it is you run into problems with Jaws 2018 and I am not sure how well it handles the latest chromium based browsers like Google Chrome, Edge or Brave compared to Jaws 2020.

Once again this is my take on things, I understand Patrick’s frustration, but I don’t see his experience widely reported and it unfortunately seems to be the case that certain system configurations can result in weird issues which are very much issues one or a few people experience. I am not usually somebody who immediately advises to reinstall Windows and I understand you may not even be able to do so if your computer is  a work computer, , but in some cases that can really fix things. As for Del’s Support Assist it would appear that it’s more of an issue which Del needs to address in making the application screenreader accessible, you can’t expect Vispero to write scripts for all sorts of apps out there which may change without notice making major changes to the scripts necessary, each software developer needs to also do their part in writing accessible software or designing accessible web pages etc.

Lastly, with an application like Support Assist which seems to be inaccessible your approach, Tom, to ask for sighted assistance every now and then to install updates the system alerts you to might be a good solution and I’d not hesitate to call Del and ask them to log in and do so because after all they made the app and if a blind person can’t use they should also be held responsible for helping out.

 

Best regards,

Sieghard

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 2:30 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

i couldn't agree with you more!!

 

i am still using jaws 2018 because of all the problems i have encountered with jaws 2020, the new grace period authorization, it not accessing things that jaws 2018 used to, etc.

i know, that at some stage, i will have to upgrade. however, i am going to wait as long as i can.

you can still download jaws 2018 from the freedom scientific page, and your authorization key should work for this just fine.

if you do this however, be careful!!!

i downgraded, as i had a trial version of jaws 2020.

when doing this, i had to uninstall jaws 2020, jaws 2018, get rid of shared and user settings, go to programs and features, uninstall everything relating to freedom scientific, go into all the program and user folders in windows and delete everything here relating to freedom scientific here as well.

after that, i had to install ccleaner and use it to clean up all temporary files and the registery.

only then, did jaws 2018 install correctly.

sorry folks about going on and on about jaws 2020, but in my opinion, keep your money and dont upgrade until freedom scientific gets their house in order.

i wouldn't even accept a free version of it at the moment.

 

regards,

 

pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 10:18
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Ok, Pat.

 

I have to say that this is ridiculous.

 

I shouldn’t have to go back to Jaws 2018 to get something to work at least somewhat correctly when I’ve paid for Jaws 2020.

 

I don’t even know if I have Jaws 2018 here any more.

 

I think that, at this point, I’m just going to get sighted assistance with Dell Support Assist every so often, or simply live without the Dell updates.

 

Before I completely throw in the towell, I will try to work with the touch cursor as Mike from the list suggests, but I am not optimistic.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 3:23 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

I have had a del inspiron for the last year. When I got it, it had support assist version 2 which worked just fine.

Then it updated to version 3 which is totally unaccessable.

In most cases, windows apps use Microsoft edge as their base. I mean the original edge, not the chrome version.

If you install the chrome version it makes no difference, so don’t bother.

If you keep tabbing around, adventually, you will hit the menu option. From there, just go down and up with the pc cursor. This seems to work for me.

When you get to the menu, you can also hit “1” and this should bring you to the first heading, or try “b” which should bring you to the “run all” button.

Don’t down-grade it to version 2, or you will loose a lot of functionality, and anyway, it will just update again. There seems to be no way to stop it from updating.

It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!!

Don’t get me started on that!!!

Anyway, to get back to this:

Make sure you also get help with disabling the option for it to run itself every so often.

If not, your computer will suddenly slow down, and you wont know what is happening, until you discover that it is running in the background.

Even turning this “run apps in the background” in windows 10 off, doesn’t stop it, because it seems to be on some sort of timer based on the computer’s clock.

Another thing to remember, is that it looks particularly for del drivers and bios updates as well as standard drivers.

I haven’t discovered any option in windows to check for a bios update, and even if I did, god knows what Microsoft would send you.

Support assist is based on your service tag. It is something, in my opinion, that del has done correctly.

There is another del application called “del update”.  This is more accessible, but it only looks for driver and bios updates. Support assist, on the other hand, checks and tunes your hardware as well.

If you find, that support assist finds updates, but wont let you select urgent ones, it is because for some of them, the computer must be plugged in regardless of what remains in the battery.

I would say, in conclusion, that you try it with jaws 2018 if you can.

2018 seems, in general, to work better with this type of thing. As I said above, I really believe, that freedom scientific severely dropped the ball on 2020 with regards to stability and accessibility.

 

Regards, Pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 02:44
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

No, Mike, I did not.

 

I’m not even sure how to access the touch cursor!

 

I wish I could attend the webinar on various Jaws cursors tomorrow, but I’ve got something else going on at the time.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 9:37 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Tom,

 

Did you try using the touch cursor?


Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.
 *My body has absorbed so much soap and disinfectant lately that when I pee it cleans the toilet.

----- Original Message -----

From: Tom Behler

Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 6:30 PM

Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

I’ve tried starting support assist from the start menu, but still can’t get to the needed options and other info with Jaws 2020 on this Windows 10 PC.

 

I must be missing something.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 8:39 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Try starting it from the start menu instead, that worked better for me.  

 

On May 20, 2020, at 18:45, Mich Verrier <michv@...> wrote:



Hi I to have this on my computer witch is also a del as well. I would like to know if this works with jaws or how you can get it to work? Like others I have had it telling me that there are important updates and to optimise my computer etc but like others I have gone to the system tray and clicked on it and it does nothing. From Mich.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: May 20, 2020 2:07 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

I have had similar issues with Support Assist on my Windows 10 Dell Computer, so would appreciate some tips about accessing important updates as well.

 

At this point, I have to just ignore them until I can get visual assistance to tell me what the updates are so I can decide whether to install them.  Clearly, this is not acceptable from an accessibility point of view.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Rawls
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 1:52 PM
To: blindtech@groups.io
Subject: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi all,

On my new dell computer, I have something called support assist. It keeps saying that it has important updates for me etc. when I go to the app I can't get it to do anything. So what do I do to make it function? I am running windows ten, jaws 2020 and the computer is a dell 3500


moderated Re: puzzling problem with Outlook rules for managing emails

Rayn Darren
 

HI Bill,

Try this:

  1. Create new rule
  2. Advance options
  3. Check the box for specific words in to/cc/bcc/subject depending on which you wish
  4. Enter the specific words
  5. Save

That should work. Best of luck!

Sarah

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Spiry
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 5:33 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: puzzling problem with Outlook rules for managing emails

 

Hi list.

I use Windows 10, MS office 360 with the issue specifically relating to Outlook

 

I use multiple email accounts in outlook and set up a rule in certain of my email accounts to copy incoming emails into those accounts over into my main default or “favorites” inbox. I do this to consolidate  emails into a single inbox so I don’t have to check each account separately. I’ll refer to this as the “general copy rule”.

 

However, I receive emails from various list serves etc that I don’t want to be copied into my default inbox but rather want to be directly moved into subfolders I have setup before the general copy rule above is triggered.

 

Unfortunately, The move to subfolder rules are moving the list serve emails to the target subfolders but not before the general copy rule runs and moves a copy into my main inbox, messy and annoying.

 

I’ve tried to figure out how to set the rules to make them work as desired, including  changing the order of the rules (i.e. placing the general copy rule at the top and at the bottom of the list of rules in the rule management dialog, but without success.

 

I suspect there is another setting or two in the rule setup that I should be using but cannot figure it out. Anyone have some expertise or insight into the “rules” of outlook rules who would offer some advice?

 

 

Thanks much.

 

Billy

 

Billy Spiry

b.s.spiry@...

 

 


moderated puzzling problem with Outlook rules for managing emails

Bill Spiry
 

Hi list.

I use Windows 10, MS office 360 with the issue specifically relating to Outlook

 

I use multiple email accounts in outlook and set up a rule in certain of my email accounts to copy incoming emails into those accounts over into my main default or “favorites” inbox. I do this to consolidate  emails into a single inbox so I don’t have to check each account separately. I’ll refer to this as the “general copy rule”.

 

However, I receive emails from various list serves etc that I don’t want to be copied into my default inbox but rather want to be directly moved into subfolders I have setup before the general copy rule above is triggered.

 

Unfortunately, The move to subfolder rules are moving the list serve emails to the target subfolders but not before the general copy rule runs and moves a copy into my main inbox, messy and annoying.

 

I’ve tried to figure out how to set the rules to make them work as desired, including  changing the order of the rules (i.e. placing the general copy rule at the top and at the bottom of the list of rules in the rule management dialog, but without success.

 

I suspect there is another setting or two in the rule setup that I should be using but cannot figure it out. Anyone have some expertise or insight into the “rules” of outlook rules who would offer some advice?

 

 

Thanks much.

 

Billy

 

Billy Spiry

b.s.spiry@...

 

 


moderated Re: Remote Access Software

James Bentley
 

James, thank you for this. Lots of helpful information.

James B

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Malone
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 7:49 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Remote Access Software

I went to the web site and copied the URL.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 2:03 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Remote Access Software

That is RIM, I already pointed that out. You suggested Remote Manager,
which is not its correct name, so I thought it was different.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Malone
Sent: 21 May 2020 01:29
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Remote Access Software

Yes, check out http://www.serotek.com/rimandram.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Hicks
Steven (CORNWALL IT SERVICES) via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 8:09 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Remote Access Software

Interested in more info on this if you have any?


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Malone
Sent: 19 May 2020 18:15
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Remote Access Software

You might want to try Remote manager as well. I've used that program for
years, but there is a cost in subscriptions though.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 9:23 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Remote Access Software

There are several payment models on there.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn / Lenny
Sent: 19 May 2020 17:21
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Remote Access Software

Hi Steve,
In fact one can switch between both machines in both programs, in NVDA, it's
F11, and I forget what it is in Jaws.
But that System Access software for this task looks interesting too.
The only trouble might be if one has to pay a monthly subscription for SA,
which wouldn't be good if they have a working copy of Jaws.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@comproom.co.uk>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: Remote Access Software


Hi,

I think what you need is RIM.

http://www.serotek.com/rimandram

It is better than Tandem in several ways.

It is screen reader agnostic, that means it knows if there is one loaded,
and will tell the technician which screen reader and version. But if one
isn't loaded, then it will load a version of System Access on the remote
machine for temporary use.

It also has the advantage that you can switch between the host and client
computers, which I don't believe you can do with Tandem.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Switzer
Sent: 16 May 2020 10:49
To: JAWS Support Group <main@jfw.groups.io>
Subject: Remote Access Software

Hi everyone,

Is there a remote access software program that works well with JAWS? I know
most programs give you a video graphic of the other person's screen. Is
there a way to hear the other person's screen so that you can navigate it
with JAWS? I know JAWS Tandem does this, but I need a program where I can
also access the computer of someone without JAWS.

All the Best,
Brian Switzer





















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moderated Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

Tom Behler
 

Sieghard:

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I do not intend to go back to Jaws 2018, for many of the reasons you suggest.

 

As I tried to say earlier, my approach to the Support Assist issue will be to try Mike’s touch cursor keys to see if I can get anything to work, and if not, to seek sighted assistance to do the updates.

 

They are Dell updates, not Windows updates, so I can’t believe they are totally necessary all of the time.

 

Again, I appreciate your reply.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:58 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

I don’t think Patrick’s experience with Jaws 2020 is universal and in fact he did not say that this Support Assist from Del works better with Jaws 2018, he said that the previous version of Support Assist worked, but that Support Assist version 3 was inaccessible and he merely said “It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!!”

Every piece of software has bugs and for me Jaws 2020 certainly works a lot better than Jaws 2018 or 2019 because Vispero has been and is making changes which allow Jaws 2020 to read a lot more again with the Jaws cursor and in Windows 10 apps the new Jaws can cursor may often act very similar to the Jaws cursor previously and it will read stuff you otherwise would have no access to. If this Support Assist software is in fact a Windows 10 app the scan cursor may be of great benefit here. I don’t own a Del computer so I can’t say and in fact on my Asus Zenbook which had a similar piece of software on it but of course from Asus I completely reinstalled Windows 10 to get rid of all that stuff and have a basic, clean install of Windows 10.

You should further keep in mind that if I remember correctly Jaws 2018 does not support the emoji panel in Windows 10 and by now there may be other issues, certainly as more and more Windows 10 updates are released the more likely it is you run into problems with Jaws 2018 and I am not sure how well it handles the latest chromium based browsers like Google Chrome, Edge or Brave compared to Jaws 2020.

Once again this is my take on things, I understand Patrick’s frustration, but I don’t see his experience widely reported and it unfortunately seems to be the case that certain system configurations can result in weird issues which are very much issues one or a few people experience. I am not usually somebody who immediately advises to reinstall Windows and I understand you may not even be able to do so if your computer is  a work computer, , but in some cases that can really fix things. As for Del’s Support Assist it would appear that it’s more of an issue which Del needs to address in making the application screenreader accessible, you can’t expect Vispero to write scripts for all sorts of apps out there which may change without notice making major changes to the scripts necessary, each software developer needs to also do their part in writing accessible software or designing accessible web pages etc.

Lastly, with an application like Support Assist which seems to be inaccessible your approach, Tom, to ask for sighted assistance every now and then to install updates the system alerts you to might be a good solution and I’d not hesitate to call Del and ask them to log in and do so because after all they made the app and if a blind person can’t use they should also be held responsible for helping out.

 

Best regards,

Sieghard

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 2:30 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

i couldn't agree with you more!!

 

i am still using jaws 2018 because of all the problems i have encountered with jaws 2020, the new grace period authorization, it not accessing things that jaws 2018 used to, etc.

i know, that at some stage, i will have to upgrade. however, i am going to wait as long as i can.

you can still download jaws 2018 from the freedom scientific page, and your authorization key should work for this just fine.

if you do this however, be careful!!!

i downgraded, as i had a trial version of jaws 2020.

when doing this, i had to uninstall jaws 2020, jaws 2018, get rid of shared and user settings, go to programs and features, uninstall everything relating to freedom scientific, go into all the program and user folders in windows and delete everything here relating to freedom scientific here as well.

after that, i had to install ccleaner and use it to clean up all temporary files and the registery.

only then, did jaws 2018 install correctly.

sorry folks about going on and on about jaws 2020, but in my opinion, keep your money and dont upgrade until freedom scientific gets their house in order.

i wouldn't even accept a free version of it at the moment.

 

regards,

 

pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 10:18
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Ok, Pat.

 

I have to say that this is ridiculous.

 

I shouldn’t have to go back to Jaws 2018 to get something to work at least somewhat correctly when I’ve paid for Jaws 2020.

 

I don’t even know if I have Jaws 2018 here any more.

 

I think that, at this point, I’m just going to get sighted assistance with Dell Support Assist every so often, or simply live without the Dell updates.

 

Before I completely throw in the towell, I will try to work with the touch cursor as Mike from the list suggests, but I am not optimistic.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 3:23 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

I have had a del inspiron for the last year. When I got it, it had support assist version 2 which worked just fine.

Then it updated to version 3 which is totally unaccessable.

In most cases, windows apps use Microsoft edge as their base. I mean the original edge, not the chrome version.

If you install the chrome version it makes no difference, so don’t bother.

If you keep tabbing around, adventually, you will hit the menu option. From there, just go down and up with the pc cursor. This seems to work for me.

When you get to the menu, you can also hit “1” and this should bring you to the first heading, or try “b” which should bring you to the “run all” button.

Don’t down-grade it to version 2, or you will loose a lot of functionality, and anyway, it will just update again. There seems to be no way to stop it from updating.

It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!!

Don’t get me started on that!!!

Anyway, to get back to this:

Make sure you also get help with disabling the option for it to run itself every so often.

If not, your computer will suddenly slow down, and you wont know what is happening, until you discover that it is running in the background.

Even turning this “run apps in the background” in windows 10 off, doesn’t stop it, because it seems to be on some sort of timer based on the computer’s clock.

Another thing to remember, is that it looks particularly for del drivers and bios updates as well as standard drivers.

I haven’t discovered any option in windows to check for a bios update, and even if I did, god knows what Microsoft would send you.

Support assist is based on your service tag. It is something, in my opinion, that del has done correctly.

There is another del application called “del update”.  This is more accessible, but it only looks for driver and bios updates. Support assist, on the other hand, checks and tunes your hardware as well.

If you find, that support assist finds updates, but wont let you select urgent ones, it is because for some of them, the computer must be plugged in regardless of what remains in the battery.

I would say, in conclusion, that you try it with jaws 2018 if you can.

2018 seems, in general, to work better with this type of thing. As I said above, I really believe, that freedom scientific severely dropped the ball on 2020 with regards to stability and accessibility.

 

Regards, Pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 02:44
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

No, Mike, I did not.

 

I’m not even sure how to access the touch cursor!

 

I wish I could attend the webinar on various Jaws cursors tomorrow, but I’ve got something else going on at the time.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 9:37 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Tom,

 

Did you try using the touch cursor?


Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.
 *My body has absorbed so much soap and disinfectant lately that when I pee it cleans the toilet.

----- Original Message -----

From: Tom Behler

Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 6:30 PM

Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

I’ve tried starting support assist from the start menu, but still can’t get to the needed options and other info with Jaws 2020 on this Windows 10 PC.

 

I must be missing something.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 8:39 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Try starting it from the start menu instead, that worked better for me.  

 

On May 20, 2020, at 18:45, Mich Verrier <michv@...> wrote:



Hi I to have this on my computer witch is also a del as well. I would like to know if this works with jaws or how you can get it to work? Like others I have had it telling me that there are important updates and to optimise my computer etc but like others I have gone to the system tray and clicked on it and it does nothing. From Mich.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: May 20, 2020 2:07 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

I have had similar issues with Support Assist on my Windows 10 Dell Computer, so would appreciate some tips about accessing important updates as well.

 

At this point, I have to just ignore them until I can get visual assistance to tell me what the updates are so I can decide whether to install them.  Clearly, this is not acceptable from an accessibility point of view.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Rawls
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 1:52 PM
To: blindtech@groups.io
Subject: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi all,

On my new dell computer, I have something called support assist. It keeps saying that it has important updates for me etc. when I go to the app I can't get it to do anything. So what do I do to make it function? I am running windows ten, jaws 2020 and the computer is a dell 3500


moderated Re: need the latest goldwave scripts for jfw

dennis
 

thanks a tun rich.

On 5/21/2020 1:04 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

These were updated in February, 2020.

https://www.dlee.org/goldwave/

 

 

 

Richard

"There's a nap for that." - an anonymous cat in a window in Portland, Oregon.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of dennis
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 11:02 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: need the latest goldwave scripts for jfw

 

using latest jaws and goldwave. where can i get the latest scripts?

--
Dennis Cornelison

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com

--
Dennis Cornelison


moderated Re: need the latest goldwave scripts for jfw

Richard Turner
 

These were updated in February, 2020.

https://www.dlee.org/goldwave/

 

 

 

Richard

"There's a nap for that." - an anonymous cat in a window in Portland, Oregon.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of dennis
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 11:02 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: need the latest goldwave scripts for jfw

 

using latest jaws and goldwave. where can i get the latest scripts?

--
Dennis Cornelison

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com


moderated need the latest goldwave scripts for jfw

dennis
 

using latest jaws and goldwave. where can i get the latest scripts?
--
Dennis Cornelison

Virus-free. www.avast.com


moderated Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

Patrick Murphy
 

Thanks,

Tried this, but it made no difference.

Anyway, I can use ctrl+insert+f for the moment.

Cheers,

 

pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 17:15
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Just looked it up, make sure you disable “Native UI automation” in the experimental flags menu:

 

1. Open Edge and go to the address bar with Alt + D

2. Type edge://flags and press enter

3. Search for “Native UI Automation” or go through the list and find it (it’s a long list)

4. Check to see if it’s disabled, if it is not disable it, if it is already disabled I am not sure why you are still having issues.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 9:09 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Sieghard,

 

Yes, it is the new chrome version of edge that I am using with jaws 2018.

If you could find out what needed to be disabled, that would be great, as I cannot use jaws 2020.

I did some research, and from what I have read, edge is the most likely to save on your battery.

The only drawback I can find with it, and google chrome, is that there is no way to bypass the “this is not a secure site” warning.

I have a server on my network that I know is ok, but because of the certificate, I cannot access its web interface.

Brave does allow for it, but it seems to be eating up my battery. Don’t know why.

 

Regards,

pat

Sen

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 17:02
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Patrick,

 

The new Edge is chromium based and once again your experience with the find command seems to be unique to you, I have been using the new Edge as my default browser on my laptop at home and 4 PC’s at work and it performs well and I have no problems with the Jaws find command. If, however, you are using Jaws 2018 with it, then that would explain some of your issues, there is a Setting in Edge you have to enable or disable, can’t remember which, back in January when there were lots of discussions about Edge this came up, but I think it was the Jaws 2020 February update which made this change in Edge no longer necessary.

Tom, I would say definitely press NumPad + Minus when you are in the Support Assist app and see if you hear “Jaws cursor” or “scan cursor”. If the scan cursor becomes active that means it’s a Windows 10 app where this may do you some good. You can’t force the scan cursor to become active, it’s the same key as the Jaws cursor, but if Jaws detects an app where it may help it will automatically activate it. The touch cursor which you can also try is activated by pressing Shift + PC cursor (Numpad Plus). You deactivate it by quickly pressing the PC cursor twice. Keep in mind that with the touch cursor mostly what you can do to navigate around is to use the arrow keys.

 

I just had an update from the Intel Driver and Support Assistant which was for my WiFi drivers and once the installation started only switching to the scan cursor allowed me to read what was on the screen and to click Next, I Agree etc.

 

Best regards,

Sieghard

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:45 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom/Sieghard,

 

Perhaps I should clarify myself a bit in relation to my last message.

I was using support assist as described previously with jaws 2018.

I was able to use version 3 when it came out, but it wasn’t as accessible as version 2.

When I installed jaws 2020, version 3 became more inaccessible.

I accept, that my problems with jaws 2020 are not universal, but no matter where I went, who I emailed, or who I rang, the answer was always the same.

“we don’t know what is wrong” or

“freedom scientific cannot be held responsible for all apps”.

I accept this, but given the fact, that windows 10 apps use Microsoft edge as their base, freedom scientific should bare some of the blaim for this as well.

Afterall, they did say, that Microsoft edge (the original one), was supported.

Sieghard, you could be right, in that the “scan” cursor may achieve what tom needs.

However, given my experience with jaws 2020, even if I still had it installed, I couldn’t say for sure, as I cannot be sure of its installation.

Generally, I have found del computers to be ok, and technical support will log in and help you as much as they can, if you have a support agreement with them.

You also mentioned the various chrome browsers.

In case it is of use to anyone:

Brave works fine with jaws 2018 as does google chrome.

However, microsoft’s new chrome edge does not.

If you use the ctrl+f to find something on the page, you actually go into the Microsoft “find” box.

Nice!!!.

The new edge is supposed to have implamented the basic functions of the chrome engine.

Don’t depend on it.

It constantly tells you that things are “unavailable” even when they are not.

Again, another good reason to upgrade to jaws 2020.

Ups!!! Can’t do that!!!

I also think, that brave is eating up my battery compared to edge and chrome. However, I haven’t verified this yet.

I know, that this is totally off tom’s problem, but it might be of use to someone.

Regards,

 

pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 15:58
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

I don’t think Patrick’s experience with Jaws 2020 is universal and in fact he did not say that this Support Assist from Del works better with Jaws 2018, he said that the previous version of Support Assist worked, but that Support Assist version 3 was inaccessible and he merely said “It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!!”

Every piece of software has bugs and for me Jaws 2020 certainly works a lot better than Jaws 2018 or 2019 because Vispero has been and is making changes which allow Jaws 2020 to read a lot more again with the Jaws cursor and in Windows 10 apps the new Jaws can cursor may often act very similar to the Jaws cursor previously and it will read stuff you otherwise would have no access to. If this Support Assist software is in fact a Windows 10 app the scan cursor may be of great benefit here. I don’t own a Del computer so I can’t say and in fact on my Asus Zenbook which had a similar piece of software on it but of course from Asus I completely reinstalled Windows 10 to get rid of all that stuff and have a basic, clean install of Windows 10.

You should further keep in mind that if I remember correctly Jaws 2018 does not support the emoji panel in Windows 10 and by now there may be other issues, certainly as more and more Windows 10 updates are released the more likely it is you run into problems with Jaws 2018 and I am not sure how well it handles the latest chromium based browsers like Google Chrome, Edge or Brave compared to Jaws 2020.

Once again this is my take on things, I understand Patrick’s frustration, but I don’t see his experience widely reported and it unfortunately seems to be the case that certain system configurations can result in weird issues which are very much issues one or a few people experience. I am not usually somebody who immediately advises to reinstall Windows and I understand you may not even be able to do so if your computer is  a work computer, , but in some cases that can really fix things. As for Del’s Support Assist it would appear that it’s more of an issue which Del needs to address in making the application screenreader accessible, you can’t expect Vispero to write scripts for all sorts of apps out there which may change without notice making major changes to the scripts necessary, each software developer needs to also do their part in writing accessible software or designing accessible web pages etc.

Lastly, with an application like Support Assist which seems to be inaccessible your approach, Tom, to ask for sighted assistance every now and then to install updates the system alerts you to might be a good solution and I’d not hesitate to call Del and ask them to log in and do so because after all they made the app and if a blind person can’t use they should also be held responsible for helping out.

 

Best regards,

Sieghard

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 2:30 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

i couldn't agree with you more!!

 

i am still using jaws 2018 because of all the problems i have encountered with jaws 2020, the new grace period authorization, it not accessing things that jaws 2018 used to, etc.

i know, that at some stage, i will have to upgrade. however, i am going to wait as long as i can.

you can still download jaws 2018 from the freedom scientific page, and your authorization key should work for this just fine.

if you do this however, be careful!!!

i downgraded, as i had a trial version of jaws 2020.

when doing this, i had to uninstall jaws 2020, jaws 2018, get rid of shared and user settings, go to programs and features, uninstall everything relating to freedom scientific, go into all the program and user folders in windows and delete everything here relating to freedom scientific here as well.

after that, i had to install ccleaner and use it to clean up all temporary files and the registery.

only then, did jaws 2018 install correctly.

sorry folks about going on and on about jaws 2020, but in my opinion, keep your money and dont upgrade until freedom scientific gets their house in order.

i wouldn't even accept a free version of it at the moment.

 

regards,

 

pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 10:18
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Ok, Pat.

 

I have to say that this is ridiculous.

 

I shouldn’t have to go back to Jaws 2018 to get something to work at least somewhat correctly when I’ve paid for Jaws 2020.

 

I don’t even know if I have Jaws 2018 here any more.

 

I think that, at this point, I’m just going to get sighted assistance with Dell Support Assist every so often, or simply live without the Dell updates.

 

Before I completely throw in the towell, I will try to work with the touch cursor as Mike from the list suggests, but I am not optimistic.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 3:23 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

I have had a del inspiron for the last year. When I got it, it had support assist version 2 which worked just fine.

Then it updated to version 3 which is totally unaccessable.

In most cases, windows apps use Microsoft edge as their base. I mean the original edge, not the chrome version.

If you install the chrome version it makes no difference, so don’t bother.

If you keep tabbing around, adventually, you will hit the menu option. From there, just go down and up with the pc cursor. This seems to work for me.

When you get to the menu, you can also hit “1” and this should bring you to the first heading, or try “b” which should bring you to the “run all” button.

Don’t down-grade it to version 2, or you will loose a lot of functionality, and anyway, it will just update again. There seems to be no way to stop it from updating.

It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!!

Don’t get me started on that!!!

Anyway, to get back to this:

Make sure you also get help with disabling the option for it to run itself every so often.

If not, your computer will suddenly slow down, and you wont know what is happening, until you discover that it is running in the background.

Even turning this “run apps in the background” in windows 10 off, doesn’t stop it, because it seems to be on some sort of timer based on the computer’s clock.

Another thing to remember, is that it looks particularly for del drivers and bios updates as well as standard drivers.

I haven’t discovered any option in windows to check for a bios update, and even if I did, god knows what Microsoft would send you.

Support assist is based on your service tag. It is something, in my opinion, that del has done correctly.

There is another del application called “del update”.  This is more accessible, but it only looks for driver and bios updates. Support assist, on the other hand, checks and tunes your hardware as well.

If you find, that support assist finds updates, but wont let you select urgent ones, it is because for some of them, the computer must be plugged in regardless of what remains in the battery.

I would say, in conclusion, that you try it with jaws 2018 if you can.

2018 seems, in general, to work better with this type of thing. As I said above, I really believe, that freedom scientific severely dropped the ball on 2020 with regards to stability and accessibility.

 

Regards, Pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 02:44
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

No, Mike, I did not.

 

I’m not even sure how to access the touch cursor!

 

I wish I could attend the webinar on various Jaws cursors tomorrow, but I’ve got something else going on at the time.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 9:37 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Tom,

 

Did you try using the touch cursor?


Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.
 *My body has absorbed so much soap and disinfectant lately that when I pee it cleans the toilet.

----- Original Message -----

From: Tom Behler

Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 6:30 PM

Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

I’ve tried starting support assist from the start menu, but still can’t get to the needed options and other info with Jaws 2020 on this Windows 10 PC.

 

I must be missing something.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 8:39 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Try starting it from the start menu instead, that worked better for me.  

 

On May 20, 2020, at 18:45, Mich Verrier <michv@...> wrote:



Hi I to have this on my computer witch is also a del as well. I would like to know if this works with jaws or how you can get it to work? Like others I have had it telling me that there are important updates and to optimise my computer etc but like others I have gone to the system tray and clicked on it and it does nothing. From Mich.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: May 20, 2020 2:07 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

I have had similar issues with Support Assist on my Windows 10 Dell Computer, so would appreciate some tips about accessing important updates as well.

 

At this point, I have to just ignore them until I can get visual assistance to tell me what the updates are so I can decide whether to install them.  Clearly, this is not acceptable from an accessibility point of view.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Rawls
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 1:52 PM
To: blindtech@groups.io
Subject: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi all,

On my new dell computer, I have something called support assist. It keeps saying that it has important updates for me etc. when I go to the app I can't get it to do anything. So what do I do to make it function? I am running windows ten, jaws 2020 and the computer is a dell 3500


moderated Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Just looked it up, make sure you disable “Native UI automation” in the experimental flags menu:

 

1. Open Edge and go to the address bar with Alt + D

2. Type edge://flags and press enter

3. Search for “Native UI Automation” or go through the list and find it (it’s a long list)

4. Check to see if it’s disabled, if it is not disable it, if it is already disabled I am not sure why you are still having issues.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 9:09 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Sieghard,

 

Yes, it is the new chrome version of edge that I am using with jaws 2018.

If you could find out what needed to be disabled, that would be great, as I cannot use jaws 2020.

I did some research, and from what I have read, edge is the most likely to save on your battery.

The only drawback I can find with it, and google chrome, is that there is no way to bypass the “this is not a secure site” warning.

I have a server on my network that I know is ok, but because of the certificate, I cannot access its web interface.

Brave does allow for it, but it seems to be eating up my battery. Don’t know why.

 

Regards,

pat

Sen

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 17:02
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Patrick,

 

The new Edge is chromium based and once again your experience with the find command seems to be unique to you, I have been using the new Edge as my default browser on my laptop at home and 4 PC’s at work and it performs well and I have no problems with the Jaws find command. If, however, you are using Jaws 2018 with it, then that would explain some of your issues, there is a Setting in Edge you have to enable or disable, can’t remember which, back in January when there were lots of discussions about Edge this came up, but I think it was the Jaws 2020 February update which made this change in Edge no longer necessary.

Tom, I would say definitely press NumPad + Minus when you are in the Support Assist app and see if you hear “Jaws cursor” or “scan cursor”. If the scan cursor becomes active that means it’s a Windows 10 app where this may do you some good. You can’t force the scan cursor to become active, it’s the same key as the Jaws cursor, but if Jaws detects an app where it may help it will automatically activate it. The touch cursor which you can also try is activated by pressing Shift + PC cursor (Numpad Plus). You deactivate it by quickly pressing the PC cursor twice. Keep in mind that with the touch cursor mostly what you can do to navigate around is to use the arrow keys.

 

I just had an update from the Intel Driver and Support Assistant which was for my WiFi drivers and once the installation started only switching to the scan cursor allowed me to read what was on the screen and to click Next, I Agree etc.

 

Best regards,

Sieghard

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:45 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom/Sieghard,

 

Perhaps I should clarify myself a bit in relation to my last message.

I was using support assist as described previously with jaws 2018.

I was able to use version 3 when it came out, but it wasn’t as accessible as version 2.

When I installed jaws 2020, version 3 became more inaccessible.

I accept, that my problems with jaws 2020 are not universal, but no matter where I went, who I emailed, or who I rang, the answer was always the same.

“we don’t know what is wrong” or

“freedom scientific cannot be held responsible for all apps”.

I accept this, but given the fact, that windows 10 apps use Microsoft edge as their base, freedom scientific should bare some of the blaim for this as well.

Afterall, they did say, that Microsoft edge (the original one), was supported.

Sieghard, you could be right, in that the “scan” cursor may achieve what tom needs.

However, given my experience with jaws 2020, even if I still had it installed, I couldn’t say for sure, as I cannot be sure of its installation.

Generally, I have found del computers to be ok, and technical support will log in and help you as much as they can, if you have a support agreement with them.

You also mentioned the various chrome browsers.

In case it is of use to anyone:

Brave works fine with jaws 2018 as does google chrome.

However, microsoft’s new chrome edge does not.

If you use the ctrl+f to find something on the page, you actually go into the Microsoft “find” box.

Nice!!!.

The new edge is supposed to have implamented the basic functions of the chrome engine.

Don’t depend on it.

It constantly tells you that things are “unavailable” even when they are not.

Again, another good reason to upgrade to jaws 2020.

Ups!!! Can’t do that!!!

I also think, that brave is eating up my battery compared to edge and chrome. However, I haven’t verified this yet.

I know, that this is totally off tom’s problem, but it might be of use to someone.

Regards,

 

pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 15:58
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

I don’t think Patrick’s experience with Jaws 2020 is universal and in fact he did not say that this Support Assist from Del works better with Jaws 2018, he said that the previous version of Support Assist worked, but that Support Assist version 3 was inaccessible and he merely said “It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!!”

Every piece of software has bugs and for me Jaws 2020 certainly works a lot better than Jaws 2018 or 2019 because Vispero has been and is making changes which allow Jaws 2020 to read a lot more again with the Jaws cursor and in Windows 10 apps the new Jaws can cursor may often act very similar to the Jaws cursor previously and it will read stuff you otherwise would have no access to. If this Support Assist software is in fact a Windows 10 app the scan cursor may be of great benefit here. I don’t own a Del computer so I can’t say and in fact on my Asus Zenbook which had a similar piece of software on it but of course from Asus I completely reinstalled Windows 10 to get rid of all that stuff and have a basic, clean install of Windows 10.

You should further keep in mind that if I remember correctly Jaws 2018 does not support the emoji panel in Windows 10 and by now there may be other issues, certainly as more and more Windows 10 updates are released the more likely it is you run into problems with Jaws 2018 and I am not sure how well it handles the latest chromium based browsers like Google Chrome, Edge or Brave compared to Jaws 2020.

Once again this is my take on things, I understand Patrick’s frustration, but I don’t see his experience widely reported and it unfortunately seems to be the case that certain system configurations can result in weird issues which are very much issues one or a few people experience. I am not usually somebody who immediately advises to reinstall Windows and I understand you may not even be able to do so if your computer is  a work computer, , but in some cases that can really fix things. As for Del’s Support Assist it would appear that it’s more of an issue which Del needs to address in making the application screenreader accessible, you can’t expect Vispero to write scripts for all sorts of apps out there which may change without notice making major changes to the scripts necessary, each software developer needs to also do their part in writing accessible software or designing accessible web pages etc.

Lastly, with an application like Support Assist which seems to be inaccessible your approach, Tom, to ask for sighted assistance every now and then to install updates the system alerts you to might be a good solution and I’d not hesitate to call Del and ask them to log in and do so because after all they made the app and if a blind person can’t use they should also be held responsible for helping out.

 

Best regards,

Sieghard

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 2:30 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

i couldn't agree with you more!!

 

i am still using jaws 2018 because of all the problems i have encountered with jaws 2020, the new grace period authorization, it not accessing things that jaws 2018 used to, etc.

i know, that at some stage, i will have to upgrade. however, i am going to wait as long as i can.

you can still download jaws 2018 from the freedom scientific page, and your authorization key should work for this just fine.

if you do this however, be careful!!!

i downgraded, as i had a trial version of jaws 2020.

when doing this, i had to uninstall jaws 2020, jaws 2018, get rid of shared and user settings, go to programs and features, uninstall everything relating to freedom scientific, go into all the program and user folders in windows and delete everything here relating to freedom scientific here as well.

after that, i had to install ccleaner and use it to clean up all temporary files and the registery.

only then, did jaws 2018 install correctly.

sorry folks about going on and on about jaws 2020, but in my opinion, keep your money and dont upgrade until freedom scientific gets their house in order.

i wouldn't even accept a free version of it at the moment.

 

regards,

 

pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 10:18
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Ok, Pat.

 

I have to say that this is ridiculous.

 

I shouldn’t have to go back to Jaws 2018 to get something to work at least somewhat correctly when I’ve paid for Jaws 2020.

 

I don’t even know if I have Jaws 2018 here any more.

 

I think that, at this point, I’m just going to get sighted assistance with Dell Support Assist every so often, or simply live without the Dell updates.

 

Before I completely throw in the towell, I will try to work with the touch cursor as Mike from the list suggests, but I am not optimistic.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 3:23 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

I have had a del inspiron for the last year. When I got it, it had support assist version 2 which worked just fine.

Then it updated to version 3 which is totally unaccessable.

In most cases, windows apps use Microsoft edge as their base. I mean the original edge, not the chrome version.

If you install the chrome version it makes no difference, so don’t bother.

If you keep tabbing around, adventually, you will hit the menu option. From there, just go down and up with the pc cursor. This seems to work for me.

When you get to the menu, you can also hit “1” and this should bring you to the first heading, or try “b” which should bring you to the “run all” button.

Don’t down-grade it to version 2, or you will loose a lot of functionality, and anyway, it will just update again. There seems to be no way to stop it from updating.

It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!!

Don’t get me started on that!!!

Anyway, to get back to this:

Make sure you also get help with disabling the option for it to run itself every so often.

If not, your computer will suddenly slow down, and you wont know what is happening, until you discover that it is running in the background.

Even turning this “run apps in the background” in windows 10 off, doesn’t stop it, because it seems to be on some sort of timer based on the computer’s clock.

Another thing to remember, is that it looks particularly for del drivers and bios updates as well as standard drivers.

I haven’t discovered any option in windows to check for a bios update, and even if I did, god knows what Microsoft would send you.

Support assist is based on your service tag. It is something, in my opinion, that del has done correctly.

There is another del application called “del update”.  This is more accessible, but it only looks for driver and bios updates. Support assist, on the other hand, checks and tunes your hardware as well.

If you find, that support assist finds updates, but wont let you select urgent ones, it is because for some of them, the computer must be plugged in regardless of what remains in the battery.

I would say, in conclusion, that you try it with jaws 2018 if you can.

2018 seems, in general, to work better with this type of thing. As I said above, I really believe, that freedom scientific severely dropped the ball on 2020 with regards to stability and accessibility.

 

Regards, Pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 02:44
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

No, Mike, I did not.

 

I’m not even sure how to access the touch cursor!

 

I wish I could attend the webinar on various Jaws cursors tomorrow, but I’ve got something else going on at the time.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 9:37 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Tom,

 

Did you try using the touch cursor?


Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.
 *My body has absorbed so much soap and disinfectant lately that when I pee it cleans the toilet.

----- Original Message -----

From: Tom Behler

Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 6:30 PM

Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

I’ve tried starting support assist from the start menu, but still can’t get to the needed options and other info with Jaws 2020 on this Windows 10 PC.

 

I must be missing something.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 8:39 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Try starting it from the start menu instead, that worked better for me.  

 

On May 20, 2020, at 18:45, Mich Verrier <michv@...> wrote:



Hi I to have this on my computer witch is also a del as well. I would like to know if this works with jaws or how you can get it to work? Like others I have had it telling me that there are important updates and to optimise my computer etc but like others I have gone to the system tray and clicked on it and it does nothing. From Mich.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: May 20, 2020 2:07 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

I have had similar issues with Support Assist on my Windows 10 Dell Computer, so would appreciate some tips about accessing important updates as well.

 

At this point, I have to just ignore them until I can get visual assistance to tell me what the updates are so I can decide whether to install them.  Clearly, this is not acceptable from an accessibility point of view.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Rawls
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 1:52 PM
To: blindtech@groups.io
Subject: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi all,

On my new dell computer, I have something called support assist. It keeps saying that it has important updates for me etc. when I go to the app I can't get it to do anything. So what do I do to make it function? I am running windows ten, jaws 2020 and the computer is a dell 3500


moderated Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

Patrick Murphy
 

Hi Sieghard,

 

Yes, it is the new chrome version of edge that I am using with jaws 2018.

If you could find out what needed to be disabled, that would be great, as I cannot use jaws 2020.

I did some research, and from what I have read, edge is the most likely to save on your battery.

The only drawback I can find with it, and google chrome, is that there is no way to bypass the “this is not a secure site” warning.

I have a server on my network that I know is ok, but because of the certificate, I cannot access its web interface.

Brave does allow for it, but it seems to be eating up my battery. Don’t know why.

 

Regards,

pat

Sen

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 17:02
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Patrick,

 

The new Edge is chromium based and once again your experience with the find command seems to be unique to you, I have been using the new Edge as my default browser on my laptop at home and 4 PC’s at work and it performs well and I have no problems with the Jaws find command. If, however, you are using Jaws 2018 with it, then that would explain some of your issues, there is a Setting in Edge you have to enable or disable, can’t remember which, back in January when there were lots of discussions about Edge this came up, but I think it was the Jaws 2020 February update which made this change in Edge no longer necessary.

Tom, I would say definitely press NumPad + Minus when you are in the Support Assist app and see if you hear “Jaws cursor” or “scan cursor”. If the scan cursor becomes active that means it’s a Windows 10 app where this may do you some good. You can’t force the scan cursor to become active, it’s the same key as the Jaws cursor, but if Jaws detects an app where it may help it will automatically activate it. The touch cursor which you can also try is activated by pressing Shift + PC cursor (Numpad Plus). You deactivate it by quickly pressing the PC cursor twice. Keep in mind that with the touch cursor mostly what you can do to navigate around is to use the arrow keys.

 

I just had an update from the Intel Driver and Support Assistant which was for my WiFi drivers and once the installation started only switching to the scan cursor allowed me to read what was on the screen and to click Next, I Agree etc.

 

Best regards,

Sieghard

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:45 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom/Sieghard,

 

Perhaps I should clarify myself a bit in relation to my last message.

I was using support assist as described previously with jaws 2018.

I was able to use version 3 when it came out, but it wasn’t as accessible as version 2.

When I installed jaws 2020, version 3 became more inaccessible.

I accept, that my problems with jaws 2020 are not universal, but no matter where I went, who I emailed, or who I rang, the answer was always the same.

“we don’t know what is wrong” or

“freedom scientific cannot be held responsible for all apps”.

I accept this, but given the fact, that windows 10 apps use Microsoft edge as their base, freedom scientific should bare some of the blaim for this as well.

Afterall, they did say, that Microsoft edge (the original one), was supported.

Sieghard, you could be right, in that the “scan” cursor may achieve what tom needs.

However, given my experience with jaws 2020, even if I still had it installed, I couldn’t say for sure, as I cannot be sure of its installation.

Generally, I have found del computers to be ok, and technical support will log in and help you as much as they can, if you have a support agreement with them.

You also mentioned the various chrome browsers.

In case it is of use to anyone:

Brave works fine with jaws 2018 as does google chrome.

However, microsoft’s new chrome edge does not.

If you use the ctrl+f to find something on the page, you actually go into the Microsoft “find” box.

Nice!!!.

The new edge is supposed to have implamented the basic functions of the chrome engine.

Don’t depend on it.

It constantly tells you that things are “unavailable” even when they are not.

Again, another good reason to upgrade to jaws 2020.

Ups!!! Can’t do that!!!

I also think, that brave is eating up my battery compared to edge and chrome. However, I haven’t verified this yet.

I know, that this is totally off tom’s problem, but it might be of use to someone.

Regards,

 

pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 15:58
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

I don’t think Patrick’s experience with Jaws 2020 is universal and in fact he did not say that this Support Assist from Del works better with Jaws 2018, he said that the previous version of Support Assist worked, but that Support Assist version 3 was inaccessible and he merely said “It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!!”

Every piece of software has bugs and for me Jaws 2020 certainly works a lot better than Jaws 2018 or 2019 because Vispero has been and is making changes which allow Jaws 2020 to read a lot more again with the Jaws cursor and in Windows 10 apps the new Jaws can cursor may often act very similar to the Jaws cursor previously and it will read stuff you otherwise would have no access to. If this Support Assist software is in fact a Windows 10 app the scan cursor may be of great benefit here. I don’t own a Del computer so I can’t say and in fact on my Asus Zenbook which had a similar piece of software on it but of course from Asus I completely reinstalled Windows 10 to get rid of all that stuff and have a basic, clean install of Windows 10.

You should further keep in mind that if I remember correctly Jaws 2018 does not support the emoji panel in Windows 10 and by now there may be other issues, certainly as more and more Windows 10 updates are released the more likely it is you run into problems with Jaws 2018 and I am not sure how well it handles the latest chromium based browsers like Google Chrome, Edge or Brave compared to Jaws 2020.

Once again this is my take on things, I understand Patrick’s frustration, but I don’t see his experience widely reported and it unfortunately seems to be the case that certain system configurations can result in weird issues which are very much issues one or a few people experience. I am not usually somebody who immediately advises to reinstall Windows and I understand you may not even be able to do so if your computer is  a work computer, , but in some cases that can really fix things. As for Del’s Support Assist it would appear that it’s more of an issue which Del needs to address in making the application screenreader accessible, you can’t expect Vispero to write scripts for all sorts of apps out there which may change without notice making major changes to the scripts necessary, each software developer needs to also do their part in writing accessible software or designing accessible web pages etc.

Lastly, with an application like Support Assist which seems to be inaccessible your approach, Tom, to ask for sighted assistance every now and then to install updates the system alerts you to might be a good solution and I’d not hesitate to call Del and ask them to log in and do so because after all they made the app and if a blind person can’t use they should also be held responsible for helping out.

 

Best regards,

Sieghard

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 2:30 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

i couldn't agree with you more!!

 

i am still using jaws 2018 because of all the problems i have encountered with jaws 2020, the new grace period authorization, it not accessing things that jaws 2018 used to, etc.

i know, that at some stage, i will have to upgrade. however, i am going to wait as long as i can.

you can still download jaws 2018 from the freedom scientific page, and your authorization key should work for this just fine.

if you do this however, be careful!!!

i downgraded, as i had a trial version of jaws 2020.

when doing this, i had to uninstall jaws 2020, jaws 2018, get rid of shared and user settings, go to programs and features, uninstall everything relating to freedom scientific, go into all the program and user folders in windows and delete everything here relating to freedom scientific here as well.

after that, i had to install ccleaner and use it to clean up all temporary files and the registery.

only then, did jaws 2018 install correctly.

sorry folks about going on and on about jaws 2020, but in my opinion, keep your money and dont upgrade until freedom scientific gets their house in order.

i wouldn't even accept a free version of it at the moment.

 

regards,

 

pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 10:18
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Ok, Pat.

 

I have to say that this is ridiculous.

 

I shouldn’t have to go back to Jaws 2018 to get something to work at least somewhat correctly when I’ve paid for Jaws 2020.

 

I don’t even know if I have Jaws 2018 here any more.

 

I think that, at this point, I’m just going to get sighted assistance with Dell Support Assist every so often, or simply live without the Dell updates.

 

Before I completely throw in the towell, I will try to work with the touch cursor as Mike from the list suggests, but I am not optimistic.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 3:23 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

I have had a del inspiron for the last year. When I got it, it had support assist version 2 which worked just fine.

Then it updated to version 3 which is totally unaccessable.

In most cases, windows apps use Microsoft edge as their base. I mean the original edge, not the chrome version.

If you install the chrome version it makes no difference, so don’t bother.

If you keep tabbing around, adventually, you will hit the menu option. From there, just go down and up with the pc cursor. This seems to work for me.

When you get to the menu, you can also hit “1” and this should bring you to the first heading, or try “b” which should bring you to the “run all” button.

Don’t down-grade it to version 2, or you will loose a lot of functionality, and anyway, it will just update again. There seems to be no way to stop it from updating.

It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!!

Don’t get me started on that!!!

Anyway, to get back to this:

Make sure you also get help with disabling the option for it to run itself every so often.

If not, your computer will suddenly slow down, and you wont know what is happening, until you discover that it is running in the background.

Even turning this “run apps in the background” in windows 10 off, doesn’t stop it, because it seems to be on some sort of timer based on the computer’s clock.

Another thing to remember, is that it looks particularly for del drivers and bios updates as well as standard drivers.

I haven’t discovered any option in windows to check for a bios update, and even if I did, god knows what Microsoft would send you.

Support assist is based on your service tag. It is something, in my opinion, that del has done correctly.

There is another del application called “del update”.  This is more accessible, but it only looks for driver and bios updates. Support assist, on the other hand, checks and tunes your hardware as well.

If you find, that support assist finds updates, but wont let you select urgent ones, it is because for some of them, the computer must be plugged in regardless of what remains in the battery.

I would say, in conclusion, that you try it with jaws 2018 if you can.

2018 seems, in general, to work better with this type of thing. As I said above, I really believe, that freedom scientific severely dropped the ball on 2020 with regards to stability and accessibility.

 

Regards, Pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 02:44
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

No, Mike, I did not.

 

I’m not even sure how to access the touch cursor!

 

I wish I could attend the webinar on various Jaws cursors tomorrow, but I’ve got something else going on at the time.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 9:37 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Tom,

 

Did you try using the touch cursor?


Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.
 *My body has absorbed so much soap and disinfectant lately that when I pee it cleans the toilet.

----- Original Message -----

From: Tom Behler

Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 6:30 PM

Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

I’ve tried starting support assist from the start menu, but still can’t get to the needed options and other info with Jaws 2020 on this Windows 10 PC.

 

I must be missing something.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 8:39 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Try starting it from the start menu instead, that worked better for me.  

 

On May 20, 2020, at 18:45, Mich Verrier <michv@...> wrote:



Hi I to have this on my computer witch is also a del as well. I would like to know if this works with jaws or how you can get it to work? Like others I have had it telling me that there are important updates and to optimise my computer etc but like others I have gone to the system tray and clicked on it and it does nothing. From Mich.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: May 20, 2020 2:07 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

I have had similar issues with Support Assist on my Windows 10 Dell Computer, so would appreciate some tips about accessing important updates as well.

 

At this point, I have to just ignore them until I can get visual assistance to tell me what the updates are so I can decide whether to install them.  Clearly, this is not acceptable from an accessibility point of view.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Rawls
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 1:52 PM
To: blindtech@groups.io
Subject: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi all,

On my new dell computer, I have something called support assist. It keeps saying that it has important updates for me etc. when I go to the app I can't get it to do anything. So what do I do to make it function? I am running windows ten, jaws 2020 and the computer is a dell 3500


moderated Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Patrick,

 

The new Edge is chromium based and once again your experience with the find command seems to be unique to you, I have been using the new Edge as my default browser on my laptop at home and 4 PC’s at work and it performs well and I have no problems with the Jaws find command. If, however, you are using Jaws 2018 with it, then that would explain some of your issues, there is a Setting in Edge you have to enable or disable, can’t remember which, back in January when there were lots of discussions about Edge this came up, but I think it was the Jaws 2020 February update which made this change in Edge no longer necessary.

Tom, I would say definitely press NumPad + Minus when you are in the Support Assist app and see if you hear “Jaws cursor” or “scan cursor”. If the scan cursor becomes active that means it’s a Windows 10 app where this may do you some good. You can’t force the scan cursor to become active, it’s the same key as the Jaws cursor, but if Jaws detects an app where it may help it will automatically activate it. The touch cursor which you can also try is activated by pressing Shift + PC cursor (Numpad Plus). You deactivate it by quickly pressing the PC cursor twice. Keep in mind that with the touch cursor mostly what you can do to navigate around is to use the arrow keys.

 

I just had an update from the Intel Driver and Support Assistant which was for my WiFi drivers and once the installation started only switching to the scan cursor allowed me to read what was on the screen and to click Next, I Agree etc.

 

Best regards,

Sieghard

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:45 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom/Sieghard,

 

Perhaps I should clarify myself a bit in relation to my last message.

I was using support assist as described previously with jaws 2018.

I was able to use version 3 when it came out, but it wasn’t as accessible as version 2.

When I installed jaws 2020, version 3 became more inaccessible.

I accept, that my problems with jaws 2020 are not universal, but no matter where I went, who I emailed, or who I rang, the answer was always the same.

“we don’t know what is wrong” or

“freedom scientific cannot be held responsible for all apps”.

I accept this, but given the fact, that windows 10 apps use Microsoft edge as their base, freedom scientific should bare some of the blaim for this as well.

Afterall, they did say, that Microsoft edge (the original one), was supported.

Sieghard, you could be right, in that the “scan” cursor may achieve what tom needs.

However, given my experience with jaws 2020, even if I still had it installed, I couldn’t say for sure, as I cannot be sure of its installation.

Generally, I have found del computers to be ok, and technical support will log in and help you as much as they can, if you have a support agreement with them.

You also mentioned the various chrome browsers.

In case it is of use to anyone:

Brave works fine with jaws 2018 as does google chrome.

However, microsoft’s new chrome edge does not.

If you use the ctrl+f to find something on the page, you actually go into the Microsoft “find” box.

Nice!!!.

The new edge is supposed to have implamented the basic functions of the chrome engine.

Don’t depend on it.

It constantly tells you that things are “unavailable” even when they are not.

Again, another good reason to upgrade to jaws 2020.

Ups!!! Can’t do that!!!

I also think, that brave is eating up my battery compared to edge and chrome. However, I haven’t verified this yet.

I know, that this is totally off tom’s problem, but it might be of use to someone.

Regards,

 

pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 15:58
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

I don’t think Patrick’s experience with Jaws 2020 is universal and in fact he did not say that this Support Assist from Del works better with Jaws 2018, he said that the previous version of Support Assist worked, but that Support Assist version 3 was inaccessible and he merely said “It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!!”

Every piece of software has bugs and for me Jaws 2020 certainly works a lot better than Jaws 2018 or 2019 because Vispero has been and is making changes which allow Jaws 2020 to read a lot more again with the Jaws cursor and in Windows 10 apps the new Jaws can cursor may often act very similar to the Jaws cursor previously and it will read stuff you otherwise would have no access to. If this Support Assist software is in fact a Windows 10 app the scan cursor may be of great benefit here. I don’t own a Del computer so I can’t say and in fact on my Asus Zenbook which had a similar piece of software on it but of course from Asus I completely reinstalled Windows 10 to get rid of all that stuff and have a basic, clean install of Windows 10.

You should further keep in mind that if I remember correctly Jaws 2018 does not support the emoji panel in Windows 10 and by now there may be other issues, certainly as more and more Windows 10 updates are released the more likely it is you run into problems with Jaws 2018 and I am not sure how well it handles the latest chromium based browsers like Google Chrome, Edge or Brave compared to Jaws 2020.

Once again this is my take on things, I understand Patrick’s frustration, but I don’t see his experience widely reported and it unfortunately seems to be the case that certain system configurations can result in weird issues which are very much issues one or a few people experience. I am not usually somebody who immediately advises to reinstall Windows and I understand you may not even be able to do so if your computer is  a work computer, , but in some cases that can really fix things. As for Del’s Support Assist it would appear that it’s more of an issue which Del needs to address in making the application screenreader accessible, you can’t expect Vispero to write scripts for all sorts of apps out there which may change without notice making major changes to the scripts necessary, each software developer needs to also do their part in writing accessible software or designing accessible web pages etc.

Lastly, with an application like Support Assist which seems to be inaccessible your approach, Tom, to ask for sighted assistance every now and then to install updates the system alerts you to might be a good solution and I’d not hesitate to call Del and ask them to log in and do so because after all they made the app and if a blind person can’t use they should also be held responsible for helping out.

 

Best regards,

Sieghard

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 2:30 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

i couldn't agree with you more!!

 

i am still using jaws 2018 because of all the problems i have encountered with jaws 2020, the new grace period authorization, it not accessing things that jaws 2018 used to, etc.

i know, that at some stage, i will have to upgrade. however, i am going to wait as long as i can.

you can still download jaws 2018 from the freedom scientific page, and your authorization key should work for this just fine.

if you do this however, be careful!!!

i downgraded, as i had a trial version of jaws 2020.

when doing this, i had to uninstall jaws 2020, jaws 2018, get rid of shared and user settings, go to programs and features, uninstall everything relating to freedom scientific, go into all the program and user folders in windows and delete everything here relating to freedom scientific here as well.

after that, i had to install ccleaner and use it to clean up all temporary files and the registery.

only then, did jaws 2018 install correctly.

sorry folks about going on and on about jaws 2020, but in my opinion, keep your money and dont upgrade until freedom scientific gets their house in order.

i wouldn't even accept a free version of it at the moment.

 

regards,

 

pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 10:18
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Ok, Pat.

 

I have to say that this is ridiculous.

 

I shouldn’t have to go back to Jaws 2018 to get something to work at least somewhat correctly when I’ve paid for Jaws 2020.

 

I don’t even know if I have Jaws 2018 here any more.

 

I think that, at this point, I’m just going to get sighted assistance with Dell Support Assist every so often, or simply live without the Dell updates.

 

Before I completely throw in the towell, I will try to work with the touch cursor as Mike from the list suggests, but I am not optimistic.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 3:23 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

I have had a del inspiron for the last year. When I got it, it had support assist version 2 which worked just fine.

Then it updated to version 3 which is totally unaccessable.

In most cases, windows apps use Microsoft edge as their base. I mean the original edge, not the chrome version.

If you install the chrome version it makes no difference, so don’t bother.

If you keep tabbing around, adventually, you will hit the menu option. From there, just go down and up with the pc cursor. This seems to work for me.

When you get to the menu, you can also hit “1” and this should bring you to the first heading, or try “b” which should bring you to the “run all” button.

Don’t down-grade it to version 2, or you will loose a lot of functionality, and anyway, it will just update again. There seems to be no way to stop it from updating.

It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!!

Don’t get me started on that!!!

Anyway, to get back to this:

Make sure you also get help with disabling the option for it to run itself every so often.

If not, your computer will suddenly slow down, and you wont know what is happening, until you discover that it is running in the background.

Even turning this “run apps in the background” in windows 10 off, doesn’t stop it, because it seems to be on some sort of timer based on the computer’s clock.

Another thing to remember, is that it looks particularly for del drivers and bios updates as well as standard drivers.

I haven’t discovered any option in windows to check for a bios update, and even if I did, god knows what Microsoft would send you.

Support assist is based on your service tag. It is something, in my opinion, that del has done correctly.

There is another del application called “del update”.  This is more accessible, but it only looks for driver and bios updates. Support assist, on the other hand, checks and tunes your hardware as well.

If you find, that support assist finds updates, but wont let you select urgent ones, it is because for some of them, the computer must be plugged in regardless of what remains in the battery.

I would say, in conclusion, that you try it with jaws 2018 if you can.

2018 seems, in general, to work better with this type of thing. As I said above, I really believe, that freedom scientific severely dropped the ball on 2020 with regards to stability and accessibility.

 

Regards, Pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 02:44
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

No, Mike, I did not.

 

I’m not even sure how to access the touch cursor!

 

I wish I could attend the webinar on various Jaws cursors tomorrow, but I’ve got something else going on at the time.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 9:37 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Tom,

 

Did you try using the touch cursor?


Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.
 *My body has absorbed so much soap and disinfectant lately that when I pee it cleans the toilet.

----- Original Message -----

From: Tom Behler

Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 6:30 PM

Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

I’ve tried starting support assist from the start menu, but still can’t get to the needed options and other info with Jaws 2020 on this Windows 10 PC.

 

I must be missing something.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 8:39 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Try starting it from the start menu instead, that worked better for me.  

 

On May 20, 2020, at 18:45, Mich Verrier <michv@...> wrote:



Hi I to have this on my computer witch is also a del as well. I would like to know if this works with jaws or how you can get it to work? Like others I have had it telling me that there are important updates and to optimise my computer etc but like others I have gone to the system tray and clicked on it and it does nothing. From Mich.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: May 20, 2020 2:07 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

I have had similar issues with Support Assist on my Windows 10 Dell Computer, so would appreciate some tips about accessing important updates as well.

 

At this point, I have to just ignore them until I can get visual assistance to tell me what the updates are so I can decide whether to install them.  Clearly, this is not acceptable from an accessibility point of view.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Rawls
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 1:52 PM
To: blindtech@groups.io
Subject: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi all,

On my new dell computer, I have something called support assist. It keeps saying that it has important updates for me etc. when I go to the app I can't get it to do anything. So what do I do to make it function? I am running windows ten, jaws 2020 and the computer is a dell 3500


moderated Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

Patrick Murphy
 

Hi Tom/Sieghard,

 

Perhaps I should clarify myself a bit in relation to my last message.

I was using support assist as described previously with jaws 2018.

I was able to use version 3 when it came out, but it wasn’t as accessible as version 2.

When I installed jaws 2020, version 3 became more inaccessible.

I accept, that my problems with jaws 2020 are not universal, but no matter where I went, who I emailed, or who I rang, the answer was always the same.

“we don’t know what is wrong” or

“freedom scientific cannot be held responsible for all apps”.

I accept this, but given the fact, that windows 10 apps use Microsoft edge as their base, freedom scientific should bare some of the blaim for this as well.

Afterall, they did say, that Microsoft edge (the original one), was supported.

Sieghard, you could be right, in that the “scan” cursor may achieve what tom needs.

However, given my experience with jaws 2020, even if I still had it installed, I couldn’t say for sure, as I cannot be sure of its installation.

Generally, I have found del computers to be ok, and technical support will log in and help you as much as they can, if you have a support agreement with them.

You also mentioned the various chrome browsers.

In case it is of use to anyone:

Brave works fine with jaws 2018 as does google chrome.

However, microsoft’s new chrome edge does not.

If you use the ctrl+f to find something on the page, you actually go into the Microsoft “find” box.

Nice!!!.

The new edge is supposed to have implamented the basic functions of the chrome engine.

Don’t depend on it.

It constantly tells you that things are “unavailable” even when they are not.

Again, another good reason to upgrade to jaws 2020.

Ups!!! Can’t do that!!!

I also think, that brave is eating up my battery compared to edge and chrome. However, I haven’t verified this yet.

I know, that this is totally off tom’s problem, but it might be of use to someone.

Regards,

 

pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 15:58
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

I don’t think Patrick’s experience with Jaws 2020 is universal and in fact he did not say that this Support Assist from Del works better with Jaws 2018, he said that the previous version of Support Assist worked, but that Support Assist version 3 was inaccessible and he merely said “It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!!”

Every piece of software has bugs and for me Jaws 2020 certainly works a lot better than Jaws 2018 or 2019 because Vispero has been and is making changes which allow Jaws 2020 to read a lot more again with the Jaws cursor and in Windows 10 apps the new Jaws can cursor may often act very similar to the Jaws cursor previously and it will read stuff you otherwise would have no access to. If this Support Assist software is in fact a Windows 10 app the scan cursor may be of great benefit here. I don’t own a Del computer so I can’t say and in fact on my Asus Zenbook which had a similar piece of software on it but of course from Asus I completely reinstalled Windows 10 to get rid of all that stuff and have a basic, clean install of Windows 10.

You should further keep in mind that if I remember correctly Jaws 2018 does not support the emoji panel in Windows 10 and by now there may be other issues, certainly as more and more Windows 10 updates are released the more likely it is you run into problems with Jaws 2018 and I am not sure how well it handles the latest chromium based browsers like Google Chrome, Edge or Brave compared to Jaws 2020.

Once again this is my take on things, I understand Patrick’s frustration, but I don’t see his experience widely reported and it unfortunately seems to be the case that certain system configurations can result in weird issues which are very much issues one or a few people experience. I am not usually somebody who immediately advises to reinstall Windows and I understand you may not even be able to do so if your computer is  a work computer, , but in some cases that can really fix things. As for Del’s Support Assist it would appear that it’s more of an issue which Del needs to address in making the application screenreader accessible, you can’t expect Vispero to write scripts for all sorts of apps out there which may change without notice making major changes to the scripts necessary, each software developer needs to also do their part in writing accessible software or designing accessible web pages etc.

Lastly, with an application like Support Assist which seems to be inaccessible your approach, Tom, to ask for sighted assistance every now and then to install updates the system alerts you to might be a good solution and I’d not hesitate to call Del and ask them to log in and do so because after all they made the app and if a blind person can’t use they should also be held responsible for helping out.

 

Best regards,

Sieghard

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 2:30 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

i couldn't agree with you more!!

 

i am still using jaws 2018 because of all the problems i have encountered with jaws 2020, the new grace period authorization, it not accessing things that jaws 2018 used to, etc.

i know, that at some stage, i will have to upgrade. however, i am going to wait as long as i can.

you can still download jaws 2018 from the freedom scientific page, and your authorization key should work for this just fine.

if you do this however, be careful!!!

i downgraded, as i had a trial version of jaws 2020.

when doing this, i had to uninstall jaws 2020, jaws 2018, get rid of shared and user settings, go to programs and features, uninstall everything relating to freedom scientific, go into all the program and user folders in windows and delete everything here relating to freedom scientific here as well.

after that, i had to install ccleaner and use it to clean up all temporary files and the registery.

only then, did jaws 2018 install correctly.

sorry folks about going on and on about jaws 2020, but in my opinion, keep your money and dont upgrade until freedom scientific gets their house in order.

i wouldn't even accept a free version of it at the moment.

 

regards,

 

pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 10:18
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Ok, Pat.

 

I have to say that this is ridiculous.

 

I shouldn’t have to go back to Jaws 2018 to get something to work at least somewhat correctly when I’ve paid for Jaws 2020.

 

I don’t even know if I have Jaws 2018 here any more.

 

I think that, at this point, I’m just going to get sighted assistance with Dell Support Assist every so often, or simply live without the Dell updates.

 

Before I completely throw in the towell, I will try to work with the touch cursor as Mike from the list suggests, but I am not optimistic.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 3:23 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

I have had a del inspiron for the last year. When I got it, it had support assist version 2 which worked just fine.

Then it updated to version 3 which is totally unaccessable.

In most cases, windows apps use Microsoft edge as their base. I mean the original edge, not the chrome version.

If you install the chrome version it makes no difference, so don’t bother.

If you keep tabbing around, adventually, you will hit the menu option. From there, just go down and up with the pc cursor. This seems to work for me.

When you get to the menu, you can also hit “1” and this should bring you to the first heading, or try “b” which should bring you to the “run all” button.

Don’t down-grade it to version 2, or you will loose a lot of functionality, and anyway, it will just update again. There seems to be no way to stop it from updating.

It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!!

Don’t get me started on that!!!

Anyway, to get back to this:

Make sure you also get help with disabling the option for it to run itself every so often.

If not, your computer will suddenly slow down, and you wont know what is happening, until you discover that it is running in the background.

Even turning this “run apps in the background” in windows 10 off, doesn’t stop it, because it seems to be on some sort of timer based on the computer’s clock.

Another thing to remember, is that it looks particularly for del drivers and bios updates as well as standard drivers.

I haven’t discovered any option in windows to check for a bios update, and even if I did, god knows what Microsoft would send you.

Support assist is based on your service tag. It is something, in my opinion, that del has done correctly.

There is another del application called “del update”.  This is more accessible, but it only looks for driver and bios updates. Support assist, on the other hand, checks and tunes your hardware as well.

If you find, that support assist finds updates, but wont let you select urgent ones, it is because for some of them, the computer must be plugged in regardless of what remains in the battery.

I would say, in conclusion, that you try it with jaws 2018 if you can.

2018 seems, in general, to work better with this type of thing. As I said above, I really believe, that freedom scientific severely dropped the ball on 2020 with regards to stability and accessibility.

 

Regards, Pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 02:44
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

No, Mike, I did not.

 

I’m not even sure how to access the touch cursor!

 

I wish I could attend the webinar on various Jaws cursors tomorrow, but I’ve got something else going on at the time.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 9:37 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Tom,

 

Did you try using the touch cursor?


Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.
 *My body has absorbed so much soap and disinfectant lately that when I pee it cleans the toilet.

----- Original Message -----

From: Tom Behler

Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 6:30 PM

Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

I’ve tried starting support assist from the start menu, but still can’t get to the needed options and other info with Jaws 2020 on this Windows 10 PC.

 

I must be missing something.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 8:39 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Try starting it from the start menu instead, that worked better for me.  

 

On May 20, 2020, at 18:45, Mich Verrier <michv@...> wrote:



Hi I to have this on my computer witch is also a del as well. I would like to know if this works with jaws or how you can get it to work? Like others I have had it telling me that there are important updates and to optimise my computer etc but like others I have gone to the system tray and clicked on it and it does nothing. From Mich.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: May 20, 2020 2:07 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

I have had similar issues with Support Assist on my Windows 10 Dell Computer, so would appreciate some tips about accessing important updates as well.

 

At this point, I have to just ignore them until I can get visual assistance to tell me what the updates are so I can decide whether to install them.  Clearly, this is not acceptable from an accessibility point of view.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Rawls
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 1:52 PM
To: blindtech@groups.io
Subject: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi all,

On my new dell computer, I have something called support assist. It keeps saying that it has important updates for me etc. when I go to the app I can't get it to do anything. So what do I do to make it function? I am running windows ten, jaws 2020 and the computer is a dell 3500


moderated Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

I don’t think Patrick’s experience with Jaws 2020 is universal and in fact he did not say that this Support Assist from Del works better with Jaws 2018, he said that the previous version of Support Assist worked, but that Support Assist version 3 was inaccessible and he merely said “It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!!”

Every piece of software has bugs and for me Jaws 2020 certainly works a lot better than Jaws 2018 or 2019 because Vispero has been and is making changes which allow Jaws 2020 to read a lot more again with the Jaws cursor and in Windows 10 apps the new Jaws can cursor may often act very similar to the Jaws cursor previously and it will read stuff you otherwise would have no access to. If this Support Assist software is in fact a Windows 10 app the scan cursor may be of great benefit here. I don’t own a Del computer so I can’t say and in fact on my Asus Zenbook which had a similar piece of software on it but of course from Asus I completely reinstalled Windows 10 to get rid of all that stuff and have a basic, clean install of Windows 10.

You should further keep in mind that if I remember correctly Jaws 2018 does not support the emoji panel in Windows 10 and by now there may be other issues, certainly as more and more Windows 10 updates are released the more likely it is you run into problems with Jaws 2018 and I am not sure how well it handles the latest chromium based browsers like Google Chrome, Edge or Brave compared to Jaws 2020.

Once again this is my take on things, I understand Patrick’s frustration, but I don’t see his experience widely reported and it unfortunately seems to be the case that certain system configurations can result in weird issues which are very much issues one or a few people experience. I am not usually somebody who immediately advises to reinstall Windows and I understand you may not even be able to do so if your computer is  a work computer, , but in some cases that can really fix things. As for Del’s Support Assist it would appear that it’s more of an issue which Del needs to address in making the application screenreader accessible, you can’t expect Vispero to write scripts for all sorts of apps out there which may change without notice making major changes to the scripts necessary, each software developer needs to also do their part in writing accessible software or designing accessible web pages etc.

Lastly, with an application like Support Assist which seems to be inaccessible your approach, Tom, to ask for sighted assistance every now and then to install updates the system alerts you to might be a good solution and I’d not hesitate to call Del and ask them to log in and do so because after all they made the app and if a blind person can’t use they should also be held responsible for helping out.

 

Best regards,

Sieghard

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 2:30 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

i couldn't agree with you more!!

 

i am still using jaws 2018 because of all the problems i have encountered with jaws 2020, the new grace period authorization, it not accessing things that jaws 2018 used to, etc.

i know, that at some stage, i will have to upgrade. however, i am going to wait as long as i can.

you can still download jaws 2018 from the freedom scientific page, and your authorization key should work for this just fine.

if you do this however, be careful!!!

i downgraded, as i had a trial version of jaws 2020.

when doing this, i had to uninstall jaws 2020, jaws 2018, get rid of shared and user settings, go to programs and features, uninstall everything relating to freedom scientific, go into all the program and user folders in windows and delete everything here relating to freedom scientific here as well.

after that, i had to install ccleaner and use it to clean up all temporary files and the registery.

only then, did jaws 2018 install correctly.

sorry folks about going on and on about jaws 2020, but in my opinion, keep your money and dont upgrade until freedom scientific gets their house in order.

i wouldn't even accept a free version of it at the moment.

 

regards,

 

pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 10:18
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Ok, Pat.

 

I have to say that this is ridiculous.

 

I shouldn’t have to go back to Jaws 2018 to get something to work at least somewhat correctly when I’ve paid for Jaws 2020.

 

I don’t even know if I have Jaws 2018 here any more.

 

I think that, at this point, I’m just going to get sighted assistance with Dell Support Assist every so often, or simply live without the Dell updates.

 

Before I completely throw in the towell, I will try to work with the touch cursor as Mike from the list suggests, but I am not optimistic.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 3:23 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi Tom,

 

I have had a del inspiron for the last year. When I got it, it had support assist version 2 which worked just fine.

Then it updated to version 3 which is totally unaccessable.

In most cases, windows apps use Microsoft edge as their base. I mean the original edge, not the chrome version.

If you install the chrome version it makes no difference, so don’t bother.

If you keep tabbing around, adventually, you will hit the menu option. From there, just go down and up with the pc cursor. This seems to work for me.

When you get to the menu, you can also hit “1” and this should bring you to the first heading, or try “b” which should bring you to the “run all” button.

Don’t down-grade it to version 2, or you will loose a lot of functionality, and anyway, it will just update again. There seems to be no way to stop it from updating.

It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!!

Don’t get me started on that!!!

Anyway, to get back to this:

Make sure you also get help with disabling the option for it to run itself every so often.

If not, your computer will suddenly slow down, and you wont know what is happening, until you discover that it is running in the background.

Even turning this “run apps in the background” in windows 10 off, doesn’t stop it, because it seems to be on some sort of timer based on the computer’s clock.

Another thing to remember, is that it looks particularly for del drivers and bios updates as well as standard drivers.

I haven’t discovered any option in windows to check for a bios update, and even if I did, god knows what Microsoft would send you.

Support assist is based on your service tag. It is something, in my opinion, that del has done correctly.

There is another del application called “del update”.  This is more accessible, but it only looks for driver and bios updates. Support assist, on the other hand, checks and tunes your hardware as well.

If you find, that support assist finds updates, but wont let you select urgent ones, it is because for some of them, the computer must be plugged in regardless of what remains in the battery.

I would say, in conclusion, that you try it with jaws 2018 if you can.

2018 seems, in general, to work better with this type of thing. As I said above, I really believe, that freedom scientific severely dropped the ball on 2020 with regards to stability and accessibility.

 

Regards, Pat

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday 21 May 2020 02:44
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

No, Mike, I did not.

 

I’m not even sure how to access the touch cursor!

 

I wish I could attend the webinar on various Jaws cursors tomorrow, but I’ve got something else going on at the time.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike B
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 9:37 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Tom,

 

Did you try using the touch cursor?


Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.
 *My body has absorbed so much soap and disinfectant lately that when I pee it cleans the toilet.

----- Original Message -----

From: Tom Behler

Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 6:30 PM

Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

I’ve tried starting support assist from the start menu, but still can’t get to the needed options and other info with Jaws 2020 on this Windows 10 PC.

 

I must be missing something.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Hill
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 8:39 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Try starting it from the start menu instead, that worked better for me.  

 

On May 20, 2020, at 18:45, Mich Verrier <michv@...> wrote:



Hi I to have this on my computer witch is also a del as well. I would like to know if this works with jaws or how you can get it to work? Like others I have had it telling me that there are important updates and to optimise my computer etc but like others I have gone to the system tray and clicked on it and it does nothing. From Mich.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: May 20, 2020 2:07 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

I have had similar issues with Support Assist on my Windows 10 Dell Computer, so would appreciate some tips about accessing important updates as well.

 

At this point, I have to just ignore them until I can get visual assistance to tell me what the updates are so I can decide whether to install them.  Clearly, this is not acceptable from an accessibility point of view.

 

Tom Behler

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Rawls
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 1:52 PM
To: blindtech@groups.io
Subject: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?

 

Hi all,

On my new dell computer, I have something called support assist. It keeps saying that it has important updates for me etc. when I go to the app I can't get it to do anything. So what do I do to make it function? I am running windows ten, jaws 2020 and the computer is a dell 3500

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