Date   

Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Gene Stevens
 

That is only true as long as it remains in the exact same physical environment. As soon as you change anything… OS, Disc Drive, RAM… anything that statement isn’t even close to true.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 2:12 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

“if software works once it will always work”

I am sorry Dan, but that is the funniest statement I have heard in a long time.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:49 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

For years I worked with a programmer and , barring, major changes if software works once it will always work.  JAWS breaks that rule.  That is what I mean by reliability.  JAWS is not consistent each time it interacts with a program.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 1:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

I think we need to move away from generic statements such as “that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability” and many others. Jaws as well as NVDA are dealing with a lot of changes in how they can access information as Windows 10 is moving to wherever it is going and with Microsoft breaking things in Office on a relatively regular bases. I am pretty sure if, for example, Jaws suddenly doesn’t automatically speak the results of the Windows 10 Calculator that it is not because of Jaws but because there was some change in Windows 10. The same goes with speaking address suggestions in Outlook and other things in Office. It often goes from working to not working without Jaws even releasing an update which would indicate Microsoft has changed something behind the scenes in Office and now Jaws and/or NVDA has to catch up to it or Microsoft gets notified of it and introduces a fix.

I could browse the archives of lists like this and produce statements like what Dan said going back year after year after year.

As for Richard’s statement about Window Eyes being the only true competition to Jaws I also would disagree with that. Window Eyes had such a small piece of the market that while they were an alternative, I wouldn’t consider them serious competition just as I don’t consider Linux competition to Windows, not in the same way as, for example, Ford being a competitor to GMC or vice versa.

If any screenreader is competition to Jaws it is NVDA. However, my observations seem to indicate that a absolutely vast majority of blind people who are employed in a challenging job which demands them to be productive are using Jaws because it still is the gold standard and in my opinion Vispero is very aggressively working on making it the best it can be. They seem to have a pretty dedicated and qualified team as well as the resources to put into Jaws development and I think more influence can be brought into play with companies like Microsoft by one larger organization like Vispero than 2 or 3 smaller ones.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 7:58 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Dare I say it, JAWS has major issues of its own.  So while I agree that Microsoft has things to deal with , before I am too critical of them, I want to be certain that the assistive technology is not part of the problem.  For me I would support a competitor to JAWS for that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Maria Campbell
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:36 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Incredible!  They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!

Microsoft is losing my respect, especially after breaking Skype as well.

 

 

Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...
 
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
~ Blaise Pascal ~
 

On 2/8/2019 7:07 PM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!

 

 


On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 


Re: The best internet browser to use with JAWS.

Gerald Levy
 


Does Waterfox work on 32 bit machines?  And do Webvisum, Plain Old Favorites and Navvigational Sounds work with it?


Gerald



On 2/9/2019 3:04 PM, David Moore wrote:

Hi Liz!

The best browser to use with JAWS, for me, has been a browser called:

Waterfox.

It was developed in 2012, and it is a spin off of Firefox, but it works tons better.

It can use all of the classic Firefox plugins, and it is so very fast.

JAWS never messes up in Waterfox. It is kept up to date, and it is very secure. A new update just came out.

Water fox has an interface that is almost like the old Firefox.

It has a spell check built in and everything.

It has a reading mode where you can get the clutter off the page, and read the article.

The reading mode is built in.

You just press:

Alt+CTRL+R to put a web site into reading mode.

With JAWS, I would say that Waterfox is my favorite browser.

You can just do a Google search for Waterfox.

What I like as well, is the ability to download a portable version of Waterfox.

I love running a portable version, that I keep on the computer, because you do not have to install it on the computer. Also, if you keep the portable version on the computer, you can create a short cut on the desktop just like you can with installed programs.

I hope this helps.

Take care, Liz.

David Moore

 

                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Liz and Hope
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 2:43 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: The best internet browser to use with JAWS.

 

I am going to be receiving some in depth computer training in preparation for vocational training services. Since Internet Explorer is no longer secure, what is the best browser out there that is JAWS friendly? I have used fire fox in the past, but as of late I have heard mixed views about fire fox.

Liz Ulrich and leader Dog hope

HTTP://WWW.FACEBOOK.COM/ELIZABETH.ULRICH.1

 

 

 


Focus Blue 40 Braille display users group?

Raymond Bishup
 

Does a Braille display group exist and if so, what is its signup email address?  Thanks!

 

 

 

 

Raymond Bishop, NV9B

Philippians 4:6-7

 

 

**** Be kind to your email friends. If you forward this, please remove all previous addresses before you send it on and use the BCC area when forwarding to several friends. ****

 

 

 

 


Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

David Moore
 

Hi!

I use Waterfox with JAWS, and it works even better than Chrome, and much better than Firefox.

It is a spin off of Firefox, but it can use the classic plugins for the old Firefox, and it is very secure with new updates all of the time.

Chrome works pretty well with JAWS as well, so we have other choices other than Edge.

Actually, I use Edge all of the time with MS Narrator in Windows 10 with the current build of 1809.

Narrator is becoming a full screen reader very slowly. It works great in Edge.

Just press Windows+CTRL+Enter to toggle it on and off.

It works great in the Chrome Browser as well, when you use Scan mode with Narrator.

It is really worth learning how to use Narrator in Windows 10.

David Moore

 

                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Melissa Stott
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 1:19 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

They will have to improve Microsoft Edge drastically before I use is.  So far, I cannot stand it!

 

Melissa

 

From: Maria Campbell
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:35 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Incredible!  They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!

Microsoft is losing my respect, especially after breaking Skype as well.

 

 

Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...
 
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
~ Blaise Pascal ~
 

On 2/8/2019 7:07 PM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!

 

 


On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 

 


Re: The best internet browser to use with JAWS.

Richard Turner <richardturner42@...>
 

I guess I should try Waterfox.

You can use the same keystroke in Firefox for the reader view.

 

Richard

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 12:04 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The best internet browser to use with JAWS.

 

Hi Liz!

The best browser to use with JAWS, for me, has been a browser called:

Waterfox.

It was developed in 2012, and it is a spin off of Firefox, but it works tons better.

It can use all of the classic Firefox plugins, and it is so very fast.

JAWS never messes up in Waterfox. It is kept up to date, and it is very secure. A new update just came out.

Water fox has an interface that is almost like the old Firefox.

It has a spell check built in and everything.

It has a reading mode where you can get the clutter off the page, and read the article.

The reading mode is built in.

You just press:

Alt+CTRL+R to put a web site into reading mode.

With JAWS, I would say that Waterfox is my favorite browser.

You can just do a Google search for Waterfox.

What I like as well, is the ability to download a portable version of Waterfox.

I love running a portable version, that I keep on the computer, because you do not have to install it on the computer. Also, if you keep the portable version on the computer, you can create a short cut on the desktop just like you can with installed programs.

I hope this helps.

Take care, Liz.

David Moore

 

                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Liz and Hope
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 2:43 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: The best internet browser to use with JAWS.

 

I am going to be receiving some in depth computer training in preparation for vocational training services. Since Internet Explorer is no longer secure, what is the best browser out there that is JAWS friendly? I have used fire fox in the past, but as of late I have heard mixed views about fire fox.

Liz Ulrich and leader Dog hope

HTTP://WWW.FACEBOOK.COM/ELIZABETH.ULRICH.1

 

 

 


Re: The best internet browser to use with JAWS.

David Moore
 

Hi Liz!

The best browser to use with JAWS, for me, has been a browser called:

Waterfox.

It was developed in 2012, and it is a spin off of Firefox, but it works tons better.

It can use all of the classic Firefox plugins, and it is so very fast.

JAWS never messes up in Waterfox. It is kept up to date, and it is very secure. A new update just came out.

Water fox has an interface that is almost like the old Firefox.

It has a spell check built in and everything.

It has a reading mode where you can get the clutter off the page, and read the article.

The reading mode is built in.

You just press:

Alt+CTRL+R to put a web site into reading mode.

With JAWS, I would say that Waterfox is my favorite browser.

You can just do a Google search for Waterfox.

What I like as well, is the ability to download a portable version of Waterfox.

I love running a portable version, that I keep on the computer, because you do not have to install it on the computer. Also, if you keep the portable version on the computer, you can create a short cut on the desktop just like you can with installed programs.

I hope this helps.

Take care, Liz.

David Moore

 

                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Liz and Hope
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 2:43 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: The best internet browser to use with JAWS.

 

I am going to be receiving some in depth computer training in preparation for vocational training services. Since Internet Explorer is no longer secure, what is the best browser out there that is JAWS friendly? I have used fire fox in the past, but as of late I have heard mixed views about fire fox.

Liz Ulrich and leader Dog hope

HTTP://WWW.FACEBOOK.COM/ELIZABETH.ULRICH.1

 

 

 


Re: The best internet browser to use with JAWS.

Richard Turner <richardturner42@...>
 

I use Firefox latest version with Jaws 2018 and have no issues.
Some folks like Chrome.
The best browser is the one you can use and feel comfortable with.
Does the training organization have a preference?

Other than IE, of course.

Later,
Richard

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Liz and Hope
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 11:44 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: The best internet browser to use with JAWS.

I am going to be receiving some in depth computer training in preparation for vocational training services. Since Internet Explorer is no longer secure, what is the best browser out there that is JAWS friendly? I have used fire fox in the past, but as of late I have heard mixed views about fire fox.
Liz Ulrich and leader Dog hope
https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=HTTP%3A%2F%2FWWW.FACEBOOK.COM%2FELIZABETH.ULRICH.1&;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cad4b7964ad4844eccc0b08d68ec6e44b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636853382208725746&amp;sdata=v1MtQQDyyF025DL1dcmIcVLKDg5GCQHxV0AwuyMdJbg%3D&amp;reserved=0


Re: The best internet browser to use with JAWS.

Alan Robbins <arobbin2@...>
 

Chrome

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Liz and Hope
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 2:44 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: The best internet browser to use with JAWS.

I am going to be receiving some in depth computer training in preparation
for vocational training services. Since Internet Explorer is no longer
secure, what is the best browser out there that is JAWS friendly? I have
used fire fox in the past, but as of late I have heard mixed views about
fire fox.
Liz Ulrich and leader Dog hope
HTTP://WWW.FACEBOOK.COM/ELIZABETH.ULRICH.1


Re: Microsoft edge is dead.

Alan Robbins <arobbin2@...>
 

I have been very happy with Chrome and never took the time to play with Edge a whole lot. I tinkered a couple of times but was not impressed and saw no reason to leave Chrome as by far it is the most common browser of choice

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of netbat66
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 2:08 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: microsoft edge is dead.

i think freedom is going to have a long road to haul and they will have to start from scratch for the edge browser.
the edge browser is going to be replaced.
few vendors are useing it at all.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/12/post-mortem-tying-edge-to-windows-10-was-a-fatal-error/

-----Original Message-----
From: Melissa Stott
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 10:19 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer



They will have to improve Microsoft Edge drastically before I use is. So far,
I cannot stand it!



Melissa





From: Maria Campbell
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:35 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer





Incredible! They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!

Microsoft is losing my respect, especially after breaking Skype as well.





Maria Campbelllucky1inct@gmail.com Somewhere, something incredible is waiting
to be known.~ Blaise Pascal ~

On 2/8/2019 7:07 PM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:



So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!












On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:



Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired,
nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a
well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


The best internet browser to use with JAWS.

Liz and Hope
 

I am going to be receiving some in depth computer training in preparation for vocational training services. Since Internet Explorer is no longer secure, what is the best browser out there that is JAWS friendly? I have used fire fox in the past, but as of late I have heard mixed views about fire fox.
Liz Ulrich and leader Dog hope
HTTP://WWW.FACEBOOK.COM/ELIZABETH.ULRICH.1


Re: microsoft edge is dead.

Don Walls
 

Somehow last week I found my default browser changed to Edge and I could not work with it. JAWS just didn't seem to read anything, though a sighted friend told me I'd got to the website I wanted. He took some time and found something cqalled Edge Deflecter, which seems to have got rid of Edge, thank goodness.

Don


Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

David Ingram
 

Here's what I've noticedie works better with jaws 16 but as you go to more recent version of jaws I don't really know what to say jaws 16 worked better for me when using ie edge still has problems with the more recent versions of jaws.  it seems that when using edge and the more recent versions of jaws things get jumbled up to the point that you aren't sure where some things start in terms of reading and where other things start.  usually while on earthlink.net I hear the different llinks as an example in box then I hear the number of messages in this box but when I use other later version of jaws 2018, I hear thingsall smashed together to the point that I should hear in box, then the number of messages but then the other problem is being able to press enter on that in box link to be able to go down the list of messages in the in box. I don't like that and I've found no way to correct things like this but if this means things are better then I say you're not using wisdom in this case.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Longmore
Sent: Feb 9, 2019 12:49 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

For years I worked with a programmer and , barring, major changes if software works once it will always work.  JAWS breaks that rule.  That is what I mean by reliability.  JAWS is not consistent each time it interacts with a program.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 1:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

I think we need to move away from generic statements such as “that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability” and many others. Jaws as well as NVDA are dealing with a lot of changes in how they can access information as Windows 10 is moving to wherever it is going and with Microsoft breaking things in Office on a relatively regular bases. I am pretty sure if, for example, Jaws suddenly doesn’t automatically speak the results of the Windows 10 Calculator that it is not because of Jaws but because there was some change in Windows 10. The same goes with speaking address suggestions in Outlook and other things in Office. It often goes from working to not working without Jaws even releasing an update which would indicate Microsoft has changed something behind the scenes in Office and now Jaws and/or NVDA has to catch up to it or Microsoft gets notified of it and introduces a fix.

I could browse the archives of lists like this and produce statements like what Dan said going back year after year after year.

As for Richard’s statement about Window Eyes being the only true competition to Jaws I also would disagree with that. Window Eyes had such a small piece of the market that while they were an alternative, I wouldn’t consider them serious competition just as I don’t consider Linux competition to Windows, not in the same way as, for example, Ford being a competitor to GMC or vice versa.

If any screenreader is competition to Jaws it is NVDA. However, my observations seem to indicate that a absolutely vast majority of blind people who are employed in a challenging job which demands them to be productive are using Jaws because it still is the gold standard and in my opinion Vispero is very aggressively working on making it the best it can be. They seem to have a pretty dedicated and qualified team as well as the resources to put into Jaws development and I think more influence can be brought into play with companies like Microsoft by one larger organization like Vispero than 2 or 3 smaller ones.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 7:58 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Dare I say it, JAWS has major issues of its own.  So while I agree that Microsoft has things to deal with , before I am too critical of them, I want to be certain that the assistive technology is not part of the problem.  For me I would support a competitor to JAWS for that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Maria Campbell
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:36 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Incredible!  They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!

Microsoft is losing my respect, especially after breaking Skype as well.

 

 

Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...
 
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
~ Blaise Pascal ~
 

On 2/8/2019 7:07 PM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!

 

 


On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


microsoft edge is dead.

netbat66
 

i think freedom is going to have a long road to haul
and they will have to start from scratch for the edge browser.
the edge browser is going to be replaced.
few vendors are useing it at all.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/12/post-mortem-tying-edge-to-windows-10-was-a-fatal-error/

-----Original Message-----
From: Melissa Stott
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 10:19 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer



They will have to improve Microsoft Edge drastically before I use is. So far, I cannot stand it!



Melissa





From: Maria Campbell
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:35 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer





Incredible! They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!

Microsoft is losing my respect, especially after breaking Skype as well.





Maria Campbelllucky1inct@gmail.com Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.~ Blaise Pascal ~

On 2/8/2019 7:07 PM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:



So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!












On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:



Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Sieghard Weitzel <sieghard@...>
 

“if software works once it will always work”

I am sorry Dan, but that is the funniest statement I have heard in a long time.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:49 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

For years I worked with a programmer and , barring, major changes if software works once it will always work.  JAWS breaks that rule.  That is what I mean by reliability.  JAWS is not consistent each time it interacts with a program.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 1:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

I think we need to move away from generic statements such as “that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability” and many others. Jaws as well as NVDA are dealing with a lot of changes in how they can access information as Windows 10 is moving to wherever it is going and with Microsoft breaking things in Office on a relatively regular bases. I am pretty sure if, for example, Jaws suddenly doesn’t automatically speak the results of the Windows 10 Calculator that it is not because of Jaws but because there was some change in Windows 10. The same goes with speaking address suggestions in Outlook and other things in Office. It often goes from working to not working without Jaws even releasing an update which would indicate Microsoft has changed something behind the scenes in Office and now Jaws and/or NVDA has to catch up to it or Microsoft gets notified of it and introduces a fix.

I could browse the archives of lists like this and produce statements like what Dan said going back year after year after year.

As for Richard’s statement about Window Eyes being the only true competition to Jaws I also would disagree with that. Window Eyes had such a small piece of the market that while they were an alternative, I wouldn’t consider them serious competition just as I don’t consider Linux competition to Windows, not in the same way as, for example, Ford being a competitor to GMC or vice versa.

If any screenreader is competition to Jaws it is NVDA. However, my observations seem to indicate that a absolutely vast majority of blind people who are employed in a challenging job which demands them to be productive are using Jaws because it still is the gold standard and in my opinion Vispero is very aggressively working on making it the best it can be. They seem to have a pretty dedicated and qualified team as well as the resources to put into Jaws development and I think more influence can be brought into play with companies like Microsoft by one larger organization like Vispero than 2 or 3 smaller ones.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 7:58 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Dare I say it, JAWS has major issues of its own.  So while I agree that Microsoft has things to deal with , before I am too critical of them, I want to be certain that the assistive technology is not part of the problem.  For me I would support a competitor to JAWS for that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Maria Campbell
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:36 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Incredible!  They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!

Microsoft is losing my respect, especially after breaking Skype as well.

 

 

Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...
 
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
~ Blaise Pascal ~
 

On 2/8/2019 7:07 PM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!

 

 


On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Dan Longmore
 

For years I worked with a programmer and , barring, major changes if software works once it will always work.  JAWS breaks that rule.  That is what I mean by reliability.  JAWS is not consistent each time it interacts with a program.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 1:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

I think we need to move away from generic statements such as “that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability” and many others. Jaws as well as NVDA are dealing with a lot of changes in how they can access information as Windows 10 is moving to wherever it is going and with Microsoft breaking things in Office on a relatively regular bases. I am pretty sure if, for example, Jaws suddenly doesn’t automatically speak the results of the Windows 10 Calculator that it is not because of Jaws but because there was some change in Windows 10. The same goes with speaking address suggestions in Outlook and other things in Office. It often goes from working to not working without Jaws even releasing an update which would indicate Microsoft has changed something behind the scenes in Office and now Jaws and/or NVDA has to catch up to it or Microsoft gets notified of it and introduces a fix.

I could browse the archives of lists like this and produce statements like what Dan said going back year after year after year.

As for Richard’s statement about Window Eyes being the only true competition to Jaws I also would disagree with that. Window Eyes had such a small piece of the market that while they were an alternative, I wouldn’t consider them serious competition just as I don’t consider Linux competition to Windows, not in the same way as, for example, Ford being a competitor to GMC or vice versa.

If any screenreader is competition to Jaws it is NVDA. However, my observations seem to indicate that a absolutely vast majority of blind people who are employed in a challenging job which demands them to be productive are using Jaws because it still is the gold standard and in my opinion Vispero is very aggressively working on making it the best it can be. They seem to have a pretty dedicated and qualified team as well as the resources to put into Jaws development and I think more influence can be brought into play with companies like Microsoft by one larger organization like Vispero than 2 or 3 smaller ones.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 7:58 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Dare I say it, JAWS has major issues of its own.  So while I agree that Microsoft has things to deal with , before I am too critical of them, I want to be certain that the assistive technology is not part of the problem.  For me I would support a competitor to JAWS for that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Maria Campbell
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:36 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Incredible!  They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!

Microsoft is losing my respect, especially after breaking Skype as well.

 

 

Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...
 
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
~ Blaise Pascal ~
 

On 2/8/2019 7:07 PM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!

 

 


On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Dan Longmore
 

Ok, perhaps “awful” was not the best choice but if any product behaved like JAWS in the mainstream business world it would be unacceptable.  Yes, Vespero is dealing with many changes yet without serious competition there is no incentive to be the best.  Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Melissa Stott
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 1:23 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Agreed!

 

Melissa

 

From: Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 1:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

I think we need to move away from generic statements such as “that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability” and many others. Jaws as well as NVDA are dealing with a lot of changes in how they can access information as Windows 10 is moving to wherever it is going and with Microsoft breaking things in Office on a relatively regular bases. I am pretty sure if, for example, Jaws suddenly doesn’t automatically speak the results of the Windows 10 Calculator that it is not because of Jaws but because there was some change in Windows 10. The same goes with speaking address suggestions in Outlook and other things in Office. It often goes from working to not working without Jaws even releasing an update which would indicate Microsoft has changed something behind the scenes in Office and now Jaws and/or NVDA has to catch up to it or Microsoft gets notified of it and introduces a fix.

I could browse the archives of lists like this and produce statements like what Dan said going back year after year after year.

As for Richard’s statement about Window Eyes being the only true competition to Jaws I also would disagree with that. Window Eyes had such a small piece of the market that while they were an alternative, I wouldn’t consider them serious competition just as I don’t consider Linux competition to Windows, not in the same way as, for example, Ford being a competitor to GMC or vice versa.

If any screenreader is competition to Jaws it is NVDA. However, my observations seem to indicate that a absolutely vast majority of blind people who are employed in a challenging job which demands them to be productive are using Jaws because it still is the gold standard and in my opinion Vispero is very aggressively working on making it the best it can be. They seem to have a pretty dedicated and qualified team as well as the resources to put into Jaws development and I think more influence can be brought into play with companies like Microsoft by one larger organization like Vispero than 2 or 3 smaller ones.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 7:58 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Dare I say it, JAWS has major issues of its own.  So while I agree that Microsoft has things to deal with , before I am too critical of them, I want to be certain that the assistive technology is not part of the problem.  For me I would support a competitor to JAWS for that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Maria Campbell
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:36 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Incredible!  They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!

Microsoft is losing my respect, especially after breaking Skype as well.

 

 

Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...
 
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
~ Blaise Pascal ~
 

On 2/8/2019 7:07 PM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!

 

 


On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 


Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Richard Turner <richardturner42@...>
 

Brian,

I will agree to disagree about Window-Eyes, but I have some information you may not that is not appropriate for this list.

 

IN my opinion, Narrator has a good chance of competing with Jaws because of their team and that they are working from the inside, much like VoiceOver for Apple.

 

Enough said.

 

Richard

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 9:12 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 11:07 AM, Richard Turner wrote:

That is why I was so upset when Vispero bought out AI Squared and dumped Window-Eyes; the only true competition to Jaws

I hate to say it, but if you considered Window-Eyes to be "the only true competition to Jaws" then they had (and have) no real competition.  Window-Eyes was to the screen reader market much like what MS-Edge is to the web browser market - a distant also-ran.

This is not a comment about Window-Eyes functionality or utility, but this acquisition would and could never have taken place had AI Squared fought it, and they weren't about to fight it because they simply weren't winning in the marketplace.

I'd say that NVDA is giving JAWS a better run for its money (while not demanding any in return) than Window-Eyes did.   As of the release of Version 1809 of Windows 10 Microsoft Narrator has announced itself as a very serious competitor to any other screen reader, and Microsoft is far from "done" with Narrator yet.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Melissa Stott <mstott69@...>
 

Agreed!

 

Melissa

 

From: Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 1:14 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

I think we need to move away from generic statements such as “that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability” and many others. Jaws as well as NVDA are dealing with a lot of changes in how they can access information as Windows 10 is moving to wherever it is going and with Microsoft breaking things in Office on a relatively regular bases. I am pretty sure if, for example, Jaws suddenly doesn’t automatically speak the results of the Windows 10 Calculator that it is not because of Jaws but because there was some change in Windows 10. The same goes with speaking address suggestions in Outlook and other things in Office. It often goes from working to not working without Jaws even releasing an update which would indicate Microsoft has changed something behind the scenes in Office and now Jaws and/or NVDA has to catch up to it or Microsoft gets notified of it and introduces a fix.

I could browse the archives of lists like this and produce statements like what Dan said going back year after year after year.

As for Richard’s statement about Window Eyes being the only true competition to Jaws I also would disagree with that. Window Eyes had such a small piece of the market that while they were an alternative, I wouldn’t consider them serious competition just as I don’t consider Linux competition to Windows, not in the same way as, for example, Ford being a competitor to GMC or vice versa.

If any screenreader is competition to Jaws it is NVDA. However, my observations seem to indicate that a absolutely vast majority of blind people who are employed in a challenging job which demands them to be productive are using Jaws because it still is the gold standard and in my opinion Vispero is very aggressively working on making it the best it can be. They seem to have a pretty dedicated and qualified team as well as the resources to put into Jaws development and I think more influence can be brought into play with companies like Microsoft by one larger organization like Vispero than 2 or 3 smaller ones.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 7:58 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Dare I say it, JAWS has major issues of its own.  So while I agree that Microsoft has things to deal with , before I am too critical of them, I want to be certain that the assistive technology is not part of the problem.  For me I would support a competitor to JAWS for that product is fast becoming pretty awful in terms of reliability.

 

Dan

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Maria Campbell
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:36 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Incredible!  They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!

Microsoft is losing my respect, especially after breaking Skype as well.

 

 

Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...
 
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
~ Blaise Pascal ~
 

On 2/8/2019 7:07 PM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!

 

 


On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 


Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Melissa Stott <mstott69@...>
 

They will have to improve Microsoft Edge drastically before I use is.  So far, I cannot stand it!

 

Melissa

 

From: Maria Campbell
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:35 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Incredible!  They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!

Microsoft is losing my respect, especially after breaking Skype as well.

 

 

Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...
 
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
~ Blaise Pascal ~
 

On 2/8/2019 7:07 PM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!

 

 


On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 


Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Sieghard Weitzel <sieghard@...>
 

Can you explain more what you mean by “after Microsoft has been breaking Skype”?

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Maria Campbell
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 7:36 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Incredible!  They admit how unpopular Edge is and they say this about IE!

Microsoft is losing my respect, especially after breaking Skype as well.

 

 

Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...
 
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
~ Blaise Pascal ~
 

On 2/8/2019 7:07 PM, Chris via Groups.Io wrote:

So why don't they just remove it from windows then?
I bet it's still there in the next build!

 

 


On 8 Feb 2019, at 23:49, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

          Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

   Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

         ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore