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Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

David & his pack of dogs <myguidedogis@...>
 

Playing devil’s advocate as they say, if the same answer is given and it does not answer the question, what good is it.  It would be like a blind person asking for directions and the sighted person just says, “Over there!”  Makes no difference how many times that sighted person says, “Over there” The blind person will not understand the directions. What’s involved, the person asking the question to be specific in what they want, then listening to the response and the person giving the answer has to be listening to the question in the first place not just rabbiting on with some scripted answer.  I have talked to such people so am not making that analysis up.  Communication goes both ways.  If a person brought in their computer or phoned into a help line and the person at the other end asked what the problem was, then got the response, “It does not work.” That is far too vague and it is up to the person asking to draw the person out.    

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: August 16, 2018 2:37 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

 

On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 03:27 PM, Steve Matzura wrote:

That is the reason behind my frustration--not that you asked the questions--no, not at all--but that others asked them, I and others answered them, yet the same questions keep coming up in the thread, which indicates to me that nobody's reading the messages.

Trust me, no one more than myself understands and shares this frustration.  I am virtually driven mad on the various blind technology lists I'm on by the frequency of the same question being asked, or the same answer being given (and, yes, this is frustrating) over, and over, and over again because folks just won't read through an entire thread before making their next contribution.  I've said this, more than once, but it falls on deaf ears.  It makes understanding a conversation, and particularly in retrospect if reviewing an archive, hellishly more difficult.

The point I am now trying to make, and was trying to make, is that the nature of the information shared on this thread has been fragmentary, at best, and not entirely clear.

I full well intend to download the Windows PE from the sites mentioned and see if I can fire up either Narrator or NVDA or any kind of speech, as I have never experienced this firsthand and will openly admit that I "won't believe it until I hear it."

I am also frustrated by the fact that it seems a very large number of participants do not understand the difference between Windows 10 bootable media, which allows one to use Windows System Protection to attempt to roll back to a prior restore point, or to do things like trying to repair startup, with Windows PE, which is an entirely different animal used for entirely different (or at least almost entirely different) reasons.

I've been in this business for decades now, and when people are saying that you can do something that has, historically, been impossible it is really, really helpful if they can be crystal clear about what special workarounds are required (and it sounds like the alternate WinPE is one of those) and the specific steps needed to "pull it all together" even if a tutorial is not presented at the time.

Even though it's "heresy" on a JAWS forum, I don't care one whit whether the pre-Windows steps are accessible with JAWS or not.  I just care that they are accessible in some way with tools that can be obtained by anyone that needs them, at no cost, and are fairly straightforward for that demographic.  Very often "single environment" tools are required to do anything prior to the booting of the OS with which one is intimately (or not so intimately) familiar.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill
Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Brian Vogel
 

On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 03:27 PM, Steve Matzura wrote:
That is the reason behind my frustration--not that you asked the questions--no, not at all--but that others asked them, I and others answered them, yet the same questions keep coming up in the thread, which indicates to me that nobody's reading the messages.
Trust me, no one more than myself understands and shares this frustration.  I am virtually driven mad on the various blind technology lists I'm on by the frequency of the same question being asked, or the same answer being given (and, yes, this is frustrating) over, and over, and over again because folks just won't read through an entire thread before making their next contribution.  I've said this, more than once, but it falls on deaf ears.  It makes understanding a conversation, and particularly in retrospect if reviewing an archive, hellishly more difficult.

The point I am now trying to make, and was trying to make, is that the nature of the information shared on this thread has been fragmentary, at best, and not entirely clear.

I full well intend to download the Windows PE from the sites mentioned and see if I can fire up either Narrator or NVDA or any kind of speech, as I have never experienced this firsthand and will openly admit that I "won't believe it until I hear it."

I am also frustrated by the fact that it seems a very large number of participants do not understand the difference between Windows 10 bootable media, which allows one to use Windows System Protection to attempt to roll back to a prior restore point, or to do things like trying to repair startup, with Windows PE, which is an entirely different animal used for entirely different (or at least almost entirely different) reasons.

I've been in this business for decades now, and when people are saying that you can do something that has, historically, been impossible it is really, really helpful if they can be crystal clear about what special workarounds are required (and it sounds like the alternate WinPE is one of those) and the specific steps needed to "pull it all together" even if a tutorial is not presented at the time.

Even though it's "heresy" on a JAWS forum, I don't care one whit whether the pre-Windows steps are accessible with JAWS or not.  I just care that they are accessible in some way with tools that can be obtained by anyone that needs them, at no cost, and are fairly straightforward for that demographic.  Very often "single environment" tools are required to do anything prior to the booting of the OS with which one is intimately (or not so intimately) familiar.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill
Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Brian Vogel
 

On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 03:36 PM, Isaac wrote:
How to make the bit by bit copy or unused sectors copy?
Most commonly known as a disk clone, and that's its own thing, though many system image programs can make them.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill
Does juice still work with jaws when using windows10?

David Ingram
 

Hi list members, i'd like to know if juice still works with jaws using windows 10? I'd like to know or is there another product that I should be using for downloading podcasts?
Re: Navigating in PowerPoint

Van Lant, Robin
 

Slideshow view really is the best way to review slide content.  The normal slide view involves text boxes you need to tab between.  If I am editing a slide, I must tab to the text box I want, press enter, then use the arrow keys to navigate within the text area.  Pressing Escape then takes you out of the edit mode so you can tab to the next text box you need.  Page up and page down move you to the next slides. 

Be aware that people often design slide shows to be visually appealing, which means they either use animation or will insert graphics containing text that you will not read with JAWS in slide show view.  There may be ways to use the OCR function in JAWS for this, but I havent’ tried.  In these cases where there are pictures containing text, I will save the slideshow as a PDF and open in in an OCR software such as Kurzweil or probably now the JAWS OCR function. 

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 7:42 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Navigating in PowerPoint

 

I second Ann Byrne's suggestion when you want to be able to easily pore over the content of a slide show in detail.

That being said, most, not all, but most of the commands you will use in any MS-Office program are not screen reader commands, but commands for the Office program itself.  Those that are screen reader specific, like dealing with making the screen reader announce row or column titles in Excel, are documented in the screen reader documentation.

The following can prove to be handy when you want to play around with any of the Office programs, particularly for the more obscure features:

Keyboard Shortcuts for Microsoft Office Programs

Keystrokes for Office programs from Microsoft Support Pages:

Word

Excel

Outlook

PowerPoint

Access

 

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill



This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of this information. If you received this communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. This communication may contain nonpublic personal information about consumers subject to the restrictions of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You may not directly or indirectly reuse or redisclose such information for any purpose other than to provide the services for which you are receiving the information.

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Re: paprika recipe manager?

Van Lant, Robin
 

Jessica,

How have you been using it, if the app is not accessible?  Are you referring to an app from the Windows Store? 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 12:54 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: paprika recipe manager?

 

Hi

I’m a huge fan of Paprika recipe manager.

 

I’m using jaws 18, with windows 10.

 

This app is 100% enaccessible.

 

Can jaws fix this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 



This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of this information. If you received this communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. This communication may contain nonpublic personal information about consumers subject to the restrictions of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You may not directly or indirectly reuse or redisclose such information for any purpose other than to provide the services for which you are receiving the information.

127 Public Square, Cleveland, OH 44114


If you prefer not to receive future e-mail offers for products or services from Key
send an e-mail to mailto:DNERequests@... with 'No Promotional E-mails' in the SUBJECT line.
Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Isaac <bigikemusic@...>
 

How to make the bit by bit copy or unused sectors copy?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Matzura" <number6@noisynotes.com>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?


It *is* a bit-by-bit copy.


I wonder if those licenses are stored on unused sectors of the disk. There's a way to back those up, too, with IFW, except that if you do that, your image file will be quite large, to say the least.


As far as not being able to read some of the options screens, particularly the last one, first be sure to set the radio button in Settings to "accessible check boxes." Then, on that final screen, since we're talkin' JAWS here, route JAWS to PC Cursor and JAWS Cursor Read Current Line to determine whether the box has an X netxt to it. This is the one and only screen that works in this manner, with an X instead of a real check mark.

Hope this helps.

On 8/16/2018 2:14 PM, Isaac wrote:
I have image for windows but I have noticed in the past it left some licenses I had out from the restore, you can't read the options very well, so is there a way to edit the ini file to make sure it is a bit by bit copy?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Matzura" <number6@noisynotes.com>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?


Al, they're not looking for accessible, because we all know that already exists; they're looking for free.


On 8/16/2018 7:20 AM, Alan Robbins via Groups.Io wrote:
Steve,

I have been using image for windows for probably 10+ years. I cannot tell you how many times it has saved my bacon. Way back I used to create images on DVD's and one could restore without sighted assistance as there was a tutorial done by David Farrin (Jaws-users-list) telling one what needed to be pushed when the reboot screen first came up.
However, what I came to several years ago is simply using a USB to sata adapter and restoring directly to whatever drive I wanted by using a spare bootable drive I had to perform the operation. If anyone is not following this, write back and I'll provide more detailed directions.

Great software and don't know why so many folks keep looking for something accessible when this has been around for years.

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Matzura
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 6:57 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Gerald,


Re-read Isaac's message. You must have either a Windows pre-installation environment with NVDA enabled, which you can get from http://www.opopanax.net/download, or the Windows 10 installation disk you make with the Windows Media Creation Tool from
https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=691209


Another possibility, my personal and particular favorite, is Terabyte Unlimited's Drive Image Backup and Restore Suite from http://www.terabyteunlimited.com - You still need the above mentioned tools for a restore to the system's boot drive of course. The Microsoft backup program is OK, but if you like or want finer control of backup media, with more interesting and useful options and features, then, in my unhumble opinion, the Terabyte product is the better choice. Many users don't like it because it's not free--costs about fifty dollars US--but after trying the program for thirty days and discovering it doesn't do any more for you than the included backup program already on your Windows machine, you can uninstall it and still walk away happy.

On 8/16/2018 6:38 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:
And all this can be done without sighted help of any kind? Seems to
me that if your hard drive crashes, you would have no speech to
restore the backup image from the external drive.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: Isaac
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 12:38 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Well, with windows 10 latest addition, you can use the old windows 7
backup tool that is built in to windows 10 under the control pannel
and then find it there.
You will create a system image, and store it on a backup drive, and
then you will have to boot from usb to restore the system image from
the windows 10 installer screen using narrator, remember the installer
now talks. You would click on repair my computer and you can restore
the backup from there, it backs up all jaws and other licenses you
have when it does a sector by sector backup.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Ingram"
<dingram269@earthlink.net>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 9:42 PM
Subject: What backup software can we use with jaws?


Hi list members, does anyone know of backup software that we can use
with jaws?
Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Steve Matzura
 

Your, Gerald's, and Richard's questions are not unreasonable. I never said or intimated that they were. However, they were answered several times both by me and other users before either of the three of you asked them. That is the reason behind my frustration--not that you asked the questions--no, not at all--but that others asked them, I and others answered them, yet the same questions keep coming up in the thread, which indicates to me that nobody's reading the messages.


However, a point to you, while how this all works has been outlined, you are right that, as yet, no tutorial on how to string it all together exists. That's mostly because all the information, scattered though it may be, is out there, with the possible exception of the multiple options for booting something accessible from which to run IFW, and, until earlier this morning, how to run the BartPE Builder, a component of the Terabyte product, wherein some of the other issues are mentioned, albeit briefly.


You may just have defined my next project--record a program on how to make backups, image or otherwise, and restore them accessibly. A friend of mine reminded me that I actually did this sixteen years ago on ACB Radio's Main Menu, showing how it's possible to back up files that are not recreatable or re-downloadable unless they are retyped, using WinZIP. How far we've come! I wouldn't know what to do if I didn't have image backups of all my systems and one of them suffered a catastrophic unrecoverable error. There's just too much to have to rebuild, too many programs to install and re-license, too many customizations to re-apply, not to have at least two boot-drive image backups on hand at all times. Why two? In case one goes bad or gets misplaced. Yes, you even need backups for your backup!


On 8/16/2018 2:45 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 02:34 PM, Steve Matzura wrote:
I'm going to explode if I have to answer this again. Please read all the other messages in this thread.
I have, and you mentioned, here, that there is a version of Windows PE, and clearly a custom one, that has NVDA speech enabled.  This would not be the one that any backup and recovery tool taken "off the shelf" and if you used it to create recovery media would use.

I have not seen a single "unreasonable question" with regard to asking you, and you directly, for a step-by-step, comprehensive tutorial regarding what you do and how you do it.

I stand by my earlier statements that without an awful lot of specialized knowledge it is highly unlikely that the random blind or visually impaired user using "off the shelf" Windows PE recovery will have speech enabled and also have no idea of how/where to get it.

I thank you, and others, profusely for giving information about a Windows PE environment that has speech with NVDA, at the very least.

It would be really nice, though, to have a tutorial document going through everything from start to finish.
Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Gerald Levy
 

 
Brian is right about this issue.  I have been requesting a tutorial or demonstration on how to restore a backup image from an external drive without sighted help of any kind for years, but nobody has taken the bait, probably because despite claims to the contrary, it cannot be done by an average blind computer user or else does not work on all systems.  I think this is all hypothetical.  .  And in any event it most definitely cannot be done using JAWS.
 
Gerald
 
 
 

Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?
 
On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 02:34 PM, Steve Matzura wrote:
I'm going to explode if I have to answer this again. Please read all the other messages in this thread.
I have, and you mentioned, here, that there is a version of Windows PE, and clearly a custom one, that has NVDA speech enabled.  This would not be the one that any backup and recovery tool taken "off the shelf" and if you used it to create recovery media would use.

I have not seen a single "unreasonable question" with regard to asking you, and you directly, for a step-by-step, comprehensive tutorial regarding what you do and how you do it.

I stand by my earlier statements that without an awful lot of specialized knowledge it is highly unlikely that the random blind or visually impaired user using "off the shelf" Windows PE recovery will have speech enabled and also have no idea of how/where to get it.

I thank you, and others, profusely for giving information about a Windows PE environment that has speech with NVDA, at the very least.

It would be really nice, though, to have a tutorial document going through everything from start to finish.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill
Re: paprika recipe manager?

Bill White <billwhite92701@...>
 

Hi, Jessica. If the app is 100% accessible, what do you need JAWS to fix?

 

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 11:54 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: paprika recipe manager?

 

Hi

I’m a huge fan of Paprika recipe manager.

 

I’m using jaws 18, with windows 10.

 

This app is 100% enaccessible.

 

Can jaws fix this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 
Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Isaac <bigikemusic@...>
 


I am saying in very rare cases the sound driver is not included, but in 98 percent of users it will be.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

 
So are you admitting that some sighted help may be needed, , at least initially?
 
Gerald
 
 
 
From: Isaac
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?
 
If someone has versions 1703, 1709, 1803, and there sound card doesn't work with windows pe, I will be glad to integrate there drivers in to the pe environment so they can have the freedom of using a backup or reinstalling.  Just try to boot and envoke narrator and if it doesn't work, I will be glad to help.  If you can, either use be my eyes to see if you are booted in to windows pe, or try narrator, or have some one verify that your in the windows pe environment and if you are with no sound let me know.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?
 
Steve,

            By the way, unless that Windows PE download at  http://www.opopanax.net/download
is customized in some way it shouldn't have speech.  Windows PE, up through the latest version I've dealt with, did not, but if these do, that would be great to know.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill
Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Isaac <bigikemusic@...>
 


it is not a myth, make an iso or usb stick of the latest windows 10 using the windows 10 creation tool and you will see that you can start narrator, not a myth factual

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

 
Thanks for explaining this.  There have been persistent rumors for years that you can restore a backup image from an external portable drive without sighted help of any kind.  This is simply nottrue, and if anyone claims otherwise, I challenge them to provide complete, comprehensive instructions or tutorial.  Even the previously mentioned tutorial on the JAWS Users site that explains how to restore a  backup image stored on a series of DVD’s using Image for Windows required some sighted help,as the creator of this tutorial admits.  This idea that you can simply turn on aWindows 10 computer with a corrupted hard drive and presto, Narrator starts speaking is sheer myth.
 
Gerald
 
 
 
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?
 
On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 12:01 PM, John Covici wrote:
Newer versions of windows do have speech, you can start narrator
Not under Windows PE you can't, or not any  version that I've ever laid hands on.

What I, and Gerald, are saying is that we are unaware of any "pre-full Windows having booted" recovery media that support speech.  I know of not a single one, and I've been in this business a very long time.

If someone can actually tell me where one is, I'd love to look at it.

If Windows itself, as in from your hard drive, actually boots then you're not doing a typical system image recovery, which is what's the crux of the matter.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill
paprika recipe manager?

Jessica D <jldail13@...>
 

Hi

I’m a huge fan of Paprika recipe manager.

 

I’m using jaws 18, with windows 10.

 

This app is 100% enaccessible.

 

Can jaws fix this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 
Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Brian Vogel
 

On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 02:34 PM, Steve Matzura wrote:
I'm going to explode if I have to answer this again. Please read all the other messages in this thread.
I have, and you mentioned, here, that there is a version of Windows PE, and clearly a custom one, that has NVDA speech enabled.  This would not be the one that any backup and recovery tool taken "off the shelf" and if you used it to create recovery media would use.

I have not seen a single "unreasonable question" with regard to asking you, and you directly, for a step-by-step, comprehensive tutorial regarding what you do and how you do it.

I stand by my earlier statements that without an awful lot of specialized knowledge it is highly unlikely that the random blind or visually impaired user using "off the shelf" Windows PE recovery will have speech enabled and also have no idea of how/where to get it.

I thank you, and others, profusely for giving information about a Windows PE environment that has speech with NVDA, at the very least.

It would be really nice, though, to have a tutorial document going through everything from start to finish.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill
Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Steve Matzura
 

It *is* a bit-by-bit copy.


I wonder if those licenses are stored on unused sectors of the disk. There's a way to back those up, too, with IFW, except that if you do that, your image file will be quite large, to say the least.


As far as not being able to read some of the options screens, particularly the last one, first be sure to set the radio button in Settings to "accessible check boxes." Then, on that final screen, since we're talkin' JAWS here, route JAWS to PC Cursor and JAWS Cursor Read Current Line to determine whether the box has an X netxt to it. This is the one and only screen that works in this manner, with an X instead of a real check mark.

Hope this helps.

On 8/16/2018 2:14 PM, Isaac wrote:
I have image for windows but I have noticed in the past it left some licenses I had out from the restore, you can't read the options very well, so is there a way to edit the ini file to make sure it is a bit by bit copy?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Matzura" <number6@noisynotes.com>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?


Al, they're not looking for accessible, because we all know that already exists; they're looking for free.


On 8/16/2018 7:20 AM, Alan Robbins via Groups.Io wrote:
Steve,

I have been using image for windows for probably 10+ years. I cannot tell you how many times it has saved my bacon. Way back I used to create images on DVD's and one could restore without sighted assistance as there was a tutorial done by David Farrin (Jaws-users-list) telling one what needed to be pushed when the reboot screen first came up.
However, what I came to several years ago is simply using a USB to sata adapter and restoring directly to whatever drive I wanted by using a spare bootable drive I had to perform the operation. If anyone is not following this, write back and I'll provide more detailed directions.

Great software and don't know why so many folks keep looking for something  accessible when this has been around for years.

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Matzura
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 6:57 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Gerald,


Re-read Isaac's message. You must have either a Windows pre-installation environment with NVDA enabled, which you can get from http://www.opopanax.net/download, or the Windows 10 installation disk you make with the Windows Media Creation Tool from
https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=691209


Another possibility, my personal and particular favorite, is Terabyte Unlimited's Drive Image Backup and Restore Suite from http://www.terabyteunlimited.com - You still need the above mentioned tools for a restore to the system's boot drive of course. The Microsoft backup program is OK, but if you like or want finer control of backup media, with more interesting and useful options and features, then, in my unhumble opinion, the Terabyte product is the better choice. Many users don't like it because it's not free--costs about fifty dollars US--but after trying the program for thirty days and discovering it doesn't do any more for you than the included backup program already on your Windows machine, you can uninstall it and still walk away happy.

On 8/16/2018 6:38 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:
And all this can be done without sighted help of any kind?  Seems to
me that if your hard drive crashes, you would have no speech to
restore the backup image from the external drive.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: Isaac
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 12:38 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Well, with windows 10 latest addition, you can use the old windows 7
backup tool that is built in to windows 10 under the control pannel
and then find it there.
You will create a system image, and store it on a backup drive, and
then you will have to boot from usb to restore the system image from
the windows 10 installer screen using narrator, remember the installer
now talks.  You would click on repair my computer and you can restore
the backup from there, it backs up all jaws and other licenses you
have when it does a sector by sector backup.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Ingram"
<dingram269@earthlink.net>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 9:42 PM
Subject: What backup software can we use with jaws?


Hi list members, does anyone know of backup software that we can use
with jaws?
Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Steve Matzura
 

Incorrect. You probably have everything you need within two feet of your current location. A DVD or USB thumb drive on which  to load Windows 10's installation media or recovery disk is all you need. You have to build IFW as well, of course, and I covered that already today.


On 8/16/2018 12:11 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Steve Matzura wrote:
As stated in at least two messages in this thread today, one must have a secondary  accessible operating system to boot in order to run the Image for Windows program.
So, in other words, you're using a functional instance of Windows to recover a system image backup to a drive that is not the system drive.  That's the only way I can read this.

It's good to know this can be done, but it's not, in any way shape or form, a typical system image recovery nor something that a very great many users have the equipment sitting around at home to do.

I have not ever tried using Narrator with the Windows 10 ISO burned as bootable to USB, and I have heard about that.  But are you able to kick off any sort of system restore that way?

The crux of all of this, for me, anyway, is trying to find out if there is a way, when the end user has only one computer, has been taking system images, and needs to restore one to that computer when there has been a catastrophic failure that does not allow that computer to boot, that supports speech guidance.  If such exists, it would be a real boon.
 
Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Steve Matzura
 

I'm going to explode if I have to answer this again. Please read all the other messages in this thread. Thank you.


On 8/16/2018 11:28 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:
 
I don’t understand.  If your hard drive crashes, you need a rescue medium to perform an image restoration from a backup external drive.  This rescue medium, whether it is a DVD,flash drive or portable external drive has some kind of user interface which must be navigated.  But there is no speech on the rescue medium so there is no way to navigate it without sighted help.  You cannot simply plug a rescue medium into a USB port an automatically initiate the restoration without some kind of intervention.  Options must be selected.  Check boxes must be checked, etc.  How is this done without speech orsighted help?
 
Gerald
 
 
 
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?
 

Brian,

 

As stated in at least two messages in this thread today, one must have a secondary  accessible operating system to boot in order to run the Image for Windows program. This is accomplished in one of two ways: (1) Obtain the most excellent Windows 10 pre-installation environment from http://www.opopanax.net/download and write it to a USB drive or DVD, or (2) obtain the Windows Media Creation Tool from https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=691209 and make a Windows 10 installation USB thumb drive or DVD, boot it, and start Narrator.

 

There is one more thing one has to do which has not been mentioned so far, and that is, to build an external, or "portable," copy of IFW on another drive. I have recorded a short program detailing how to do this. Download it from https://www.dropbox.com/s/654zldv0meha93c/PE%20Builder.mp3?dl=0


On 8/16/2018 10:47 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Just for my own edification, I would like to know more about how a JAWS user goes about actually doing a restore, if/when necessary/desirable, using Image for Windows.

I have yet to know of any way that is accessible, at least in any conventional sense of the word, to recover from an external system image on a system where Windows either will not boot or, if a new HDD replacement was needed, does not even exist.

If this utility has some sort of speech enabled recovery process that would be most useful to know about.  And I mean specifically recovering from a disaster where you are not going to be booting into Windows in order to kick off the entire process.
Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Isaac <bigikemusic@...>
 

You would boot from usb to restore the backup and the backup would be stored on a secondary drive.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@verizon.net>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 5:38 AM
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?



And all this can be done without sighted help of any kind? Seems to me that if your hard drive crashes, you would have no speech to restore the backup image from the external drive.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Isaac
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 12:38 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Well, with windows 10 latest addition, you can use the old windows 7 backup
tool that is built in to windows 10 under the control pannel and then find
it there.
You will create a system image, and store it on a backup drive, and then you
will have to boot from usb to restore the system image from the windows 10
installer screen using narrator, remember the installer now talks. You
would click on repair my computer and you can restore the backup from there,
it backs up all jaws and other licenses you have when it does a sector by
sector backup.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ingram" <dingram269@earthlink.net>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 9:42 PM
Subject: What backup software can we use with jaws?


Hi list members, does anyone know of backup software that we can use with jaws?
Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Isaac <bigikemusic@...>
 

I have image for windows but I have noticed in the past it left some licenses I had out from the restore, you can't read the options very well, so is there a way to edit the ini file to make sure it is a bit by bit copy?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Matzura" <number6@noisynotes.com>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?


Al, they're not looking for accessible, because we all know that already exists; they're looking for free.


On 8/16/2018 7:20 AM, Alan Robbins via Groups.Io wrote:
Steve,

I have been using image for windows for probably 10+ years. I cannot tell you how many times it has saved my bacon. Way back I used to create images on DVD's and one could restore without sighted assistance as there was a tutorial done by David Farrin (Jaws-users-list) telling one what needed to be pushed when the reboot screen first came up.
However, what I came to several years ago is simply using a USB to sata adapter and restoring directly to whatever drive I wanted by using a spare bootable drive I had to perform the operation. If anyone is not following this, write back and I'll provide more detailed directions.

Great software and don't know why so many folks keep looking for something accessible when this has been around for years.

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Matzura
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 6:57 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Gerald,


Re-read Isaac's message. You must have either a Windows pre-installation environment with NVDA enabled, which you can get from http://www.opopanax.net/download, or the Windows 10 installation disk you make with the Windows Media Creation Tool from
https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=691209


Another possibility, my personal and particular favorite, is Terabyte Unlimited's Drive Image Backup and Restore Suite from http://www.terabyteunlimited.com - You still need the above mentioned tools for a restore to the system's boot drive of course. The Microsoft backup program is OK, but if you like or want finer control of backup media, with more interesting and useful options and features, then, in my unhumble opinion, the Terabyte product is the better choice. Many users don't like it because it's not free--costs about fifty dollars US--but after trying the program for thirty days and discovering it doesn't do any more for you than the included backup program already on your Windows machine, you can uninstall it and still walk away happy.

On 8/16/2018 6:38 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:
And all this can be done without sighted help of any kind? Seems to
me that if your hard drive crashes, you would have no speech to
restore the backup image from the external drive.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: Isaac
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 12:38 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: What backup software can we use with jaws?

Well, with windows 10 latest addition, you can use the old windows 7
backup tool that is built in to windows 10 under the control pannel
and then find it there.
You will create a system image, and store it on a backup drive, and
then you will have to boot from usb to restore the system image from
the windows 10 installer screen using narrator, remember the installer
now talks. You would click on repair my computer and you can restore
the backup from there, it backs up all jaws and other licenses you
have when it does a sector by sector backup.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Ingram"
<dingram269@earthlink.net>
To: <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 9:42 PM
Subject: What backup software can we use with jaws?


Hi list members, does anyone know of backup software that we can use
with jaws?
Re: Could you remind me of the new Microsoft Word access option in JAWS?

Bill White <billwhite92701@...>
 

Some software can send more information to JAWS with the box uncheck than it can when the box is checked. If you’re using legacy software, JAWS receives more information with the box checked, which is the default.

 

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of mike mcglashon
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 10:00 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Could you remind me of the new Microsoft Word access option in JAWS?

 

So, tell me something,

How does jaws act differently between whether the box is checked or unchecked?

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 12:39 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Could you remind me of the new Microsoft Word access option in JAWS?

 

Hi, Mike. Here is how to change the way JAWS interacts with software:

 

1. Type JAWS key plus six on the numbers row to open Settings.

2. In the search box, type

 

misc

 

3. Arrow down to Miscellaneous, and press ENTER to open.

4. Arrow down to:

 

Use Accessibility Driver for Screen Capture.

 

5. It will tell you that it is unavailable, because you need to load the Default configuration to change this setting.

6. To load the Default configuration, type:

 

CONTROL plus SHIFT plus D

 

7. Now press space on

 

Use Accessibility Driver for Screen Capture.

 

to change it’s value to unchecked.

 

8. TAB to OK, and press ENTER.

 

9. Quit JAWS, and Restart JAWS for this setting to take effect.

 

To reverse this process:

 

Repeat steps one through nine, above, except in step seven,

 

Press space on

 

Use Accessibility Driver for Screen Capture.

 

to change it’s value back to checked.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of mike mcglashon
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 8:56 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Could you remind me of the new Microsoft Word access option in JAWS?

 

Where does one find this setting to which you guys refer?

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 11:51 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Could you remind me of the new Microsoft Word access option in JAWS?

 

I assume you mean the setting “Use accessibility driver for screen capture”

The setting is still there, having it checked means Jaws does what it has always done and it uses the accessibility driver.

For me unchecking it has undesireable results in some other legecy applications I use and as a member of the Jaws Beta program I think it’s OK for me to say that this is not something FS has focused on recently, maybe they will down the road, but while you can uncheck it to see what happens I’d probably leave it alone. If you do want to try then remember that after you uncheck it you need to restart Jaws for the change to become effective.

 

Take care,

Sieghard

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jason White via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2018 8:42 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Could you remind me of the new Microsoft Word access option in JAWS?

 

As I remember, there’s an option to switch JAWS to use newer techniques for interacting at the software level with Microsoft Word.

 

I can’t recall when it was introduced or what the option is called, and my searches haven’t found it. Is it still in the latest release of JAWS 2018, and, if it is, what’s the name of the setting?

 

Any help in refreshing my memory would be appreciated.

 
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