Date   

Re: Initial Skype for desktop 8 feedback

Cristóbal
 

There are three buttons at the top of the screen. My info, the one where it says my Skype ID and a more button.

If I click on either one of the first two, I’m taken to another screen where the below is displayed:

Close settings Button
Your name
Edit My Skype Name
Tell your friends what you’re up to
Edit Tell your friends what you’re up to
Your presence status is Invisible
Button
Edit Tell your friends what you’re up to
Edit Tell your friends what you’re up to
Your presence status is Invisible
Button
Share profile
Button
Skype Credit and Subscriptions. Your Skype Credit balance is $0.00 and you have 1 subscription.
Button
blank
Application Settings
Button
Audio & Video Settings
Button
Calling
Button
Account and profile
Button
Money
Button
Language
Button
blank
Skype Name
My Skype ID
Skype Number +***********
Button
Birthday
**********
Color, currently selected: Blue
Button
Theme
Button
blank
Help and feedback
Button
Get Skype for Mobile
Button
About
Button
Sign out Button
Sign out Button

The voice mail and call forwarding stuff is in the call button and all the audio stuff is under the audio and video settings, but for me at least,

The ability to separate the ring alerts from the call audio doesn’t show up. This is what’s on the audio and video settings on my screen:

Audio & Video Settings
blank
Make a free test call
Button
Microphone
Microphone, Microphone (2- Logitech USB Headset), selected
button menu
blank
Automatically adjust microphone settings
 Automatically adjust microphone settings Switch On
blank
Speakers
Speakers, Speakers (2- Logitech USB Headset), selected
button menu
Change speaker volume
2
left right slider
Start audio test
Button
blank
Camera
No device found. Link Learn more about fixing this issue.
issue

This is on my desktop and I don’t’ have a webcam installed, thus the last message.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Matzura
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 9:20 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Initial Skype for desktop 8 feedback

 

I can help with some of these.

 

All your Skype settings are under the menu you get  when you press the Profile button. In there, there are radio buttons for choosing audio devices for input, output and notification noises. What I can't find is the delay before going to voicemail, but it might be under Notifications, haven't looked at that branch of  Settings yet.

 

Speaking of voicemail, one of the Settings branches deals with the setup of voicemail and call forwarding.

 

HTH

 

On 7/30/2018 7:14 PM, Cristóbal wrote:

Hello list,

So, some initial feedback after updating to Skype 8.x

Muscle memory issues with the new keystrokes aside which are always going to take a bit getting used to, I’m finding certain aspects to be quite frustrating. I’ve already written Microsoft about some of this via the feedback option in the app as well as on Twitter.

Anyway, the immediate thing is that with this updated version, there doesn’t seem to be any means to have the Skype ringer alert go to a separate audio source like external or PC speakers. There’s only one option for speakers which if you’re using a headset, which I’m pretty sure most if not all of us are using is the only viable option. More so for those of us who have a paid number. The end result is that when you get an incoming call, the ringer quite easily drowns out anything Jaws (in my case) may say. I don’t use the audio ducking feature as I find it to be too distracting. One can go into the speaker settings in Skype and lower the volume or the speaker settings in Windows 10 to lower Skype volume, but all that accomplishes is that in addition to the ringer being lowered, the call audio is lowered as well. Also, I’ve already twice missed an incoming call because I took my headset off for this or that reason and didn’t hear the ringer alert fast enough through the headset to put it back on and get to the Skype window in time to pick up.

I had mentioned previously that the hotkeys also no longer to appear to be universal. Indeed, this is the case. So now, when you get an incoming call, you have to scramble to the Skype window since at least for me, I’m not taken there automatically and if I’m in a different virtual desktop, the taskbar short cut win key plus X, Y or Z won’t work and try to listen to figure out if I’m finally in the Skype window which again, as described previously, isn’t as easy since the ringer is drowning everything else out. The few times I’ve had a chance to take an incoming call and used the control plus shift plus P command, Skype actually initiates an outgoing call as well as answering the incoming call. This . . . has proven to be problematic to say the least.

More than once already, I’ve found myself trying to orientate myself on the Skype screen to maybe tab to the answer button instead of using the hotkey to avoid this issue with answering/making a duel call, but so far, I haven’t been able to access the answer/accept call button in time.

This leads me into the other issue. I so far have not been able to find any of the telephone settings for Skype. Settings in Skype appear to be super basic. Nothing however for voicemail greeting, managing call forwarding and or ringer time. I know I can probably if need be access some of these features via the Skype web account, but talk about a needless step backwards.

One other thing for Jaws users (I don’t use NVDA enough to know how the dictionary manager works), I had a bunch of saved entries for phone numbers to speak this or that clinic. It seems that the Skype app is Chrome based so, they didn’t port over. I’m sure I can go into my Jaws settings and try and play around with changing a dictionary manager file association, but again, just another inconvenience.

IN broad terms, the app all in all seems accessible and navigating around like a webpage is easy enough, but it lacks some serious functionality.

It is much easier to make calls, but receiving/answering… it’s still rough to say the least.

 

 


Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Alan Robbins
 

I understand that but after a while the same question and same answers over and over just take up a lot of band width. Folks could check the archives as well and see all the same answers. Just an option

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of cecropia64
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 10:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Maybe. But that's what these lists are for. To ask questions and get answers if there are any to be had.


On 7/31/2018 10:17 AM, Alan Robbins via Groups.Io wrote:
I wish I had a dollar for every time this thread starts up on this list as well as other lists. It seems to me there must be a reason Microsoft stopped having a shut down sound. Has anyone ever taken the time to research this or ask Microsoft? It would seem to me to be energy better spend than repeatedly asking this question on email lists.

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 9:16 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

I disagree with that statement about Microsoft not caring about accessibility. If this were so then why the major and continueing improvements of Narrator and if this statement was true then Apple also does not care about accessibility (which of course is not true) because the iPhone makes neither a startup sound nor a shutdown sound.



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 3:51 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10


Taking away the shutdown sound in Windows 10 proves once again that MS really does not careabout accessibility, contrary to what some list members believe to the contrary. What possible advantage is there to having no audible means of confirming that your computer has completely shut down? On some laptops, the cooling fan is so weak that it is difficult to impossible to tell whether it is running just by feeling or placing your ear next to the case, so this may not be a reliable substitute for the shutdown sound.
Maybe someone who is smarter than me can explain how eliminating the shutdown sound is an "improvement".

Gerald



Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Mario
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 8:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

in the meantime, it would be appreciated, I think by most blind and/or sighted users, to send feedback to Microsoft pleeding that the familiar Windows 7 shutdown sound be reenabled and that any wav file can be assigned as it was possible with earlier versions of Windows, i.e. via the sounds applett of the control panel.
there might be a chance MS would consider it if there were compelling reasons such as for blind users who choose to completely shutdown their system and are using a laptop (or desktop) that does not have any means of testing to see if the system is truely shutdown. the more the reasons that are reasonable, the better the chance MS might do it. no?




-------- Original Message --------
From: cecropia64 [mailto:cecropia64@...]
Sent: Monday, Jul 30, 2018 7:35 PM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

yup, me too. I'm gonna use Windows 7 until Microsoft says "no more".
But by then I hope to have learned enough about Windows 10 to at least use it without too much of an issue. We shall see about that.


On 7/30/2018 6:24 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:

So how can you tell for sure that your computer has shut down completely if there is no sound like in Windows 7 and earlier? This is yet another reason why I'm in no hurry to upgrade to Windows 10.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: Pastor Gil Pries
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 5:10 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

With Windows 10, there is no way to assign a shutdown sound.

Pastor Gil

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Teresa
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 1:56 PM
To: JFW <jfw@groups.io>
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

good afternoon list: how do I assign a sound when windows 10 shuts down?
Thanks to all in advance.














.
















Re: Initial Skype for desktop 8 feedback

Steve Matzura
 

I can help with some of these.


All your Skype settings are under the menu you get  when you press the Profile button. In there, there are radio buttons for choosing audio devices for input, output and notification noises. What I can't find is the delay before going to voicemail, but it might be under Notifications, haven't looked at that branch of  Settings yet.


Speaking of voicemail, one of the Settings branches deals with the setup of voicemail and call forwarding.


HTH


On 7/30/2018 7:14 PM, Cristóbal wrote:

Hello list,

So, some initial feedback after updating to Skype 8.x

Muscle memory issues with the new keystrokes aside which are always going to take a bit getting used to, I’m finding certain aspects to be quite frustrating. I’ve already written Microsoft about some of this via the feedback option in the app as well as on Twitter.

Anyway, the immediate thing is that with this updated version, there doesn’t seem to be any means to have the Skype ringer alert go to a separate audio source like external or PC speakers. There’s only one option for speakers which if you’re using a headset, which I’m pretty sure most if not all of us are using is the only viable option. More so for those of us who have a paid number. The end result is that when you get an incoming call, the ringer quite easily drowns out anything Jaws (in my case) may say. I don’t use the audio ducking feature as I find it to be too distracting. One can go into the speaker settings in Skype and lower the volume or the speaker settings in Windows 10 to lower Skype volume, but all that accomplishes is that in addition to the ringer being lowered, the call audio is lowered as well. Also, I’ve already twice missed an incoming call because I took my headset off for this or that reason and didn’t hear the ringer alert fast enough through the headset to put it back on and get to the Skype window in time to pick up.

I had mentioned previously that the hotkeys also no longer to appear to be universal. Indeed, this is the case. So now, when you get an incoming call, you have to scramble to the Skype window since at least for me, I’m not taken there automatically and if I’m in a different virtual desktop, the taskbar short cut win key plus X, Y or Z won’t work and try to listen to figure out if I’m finally in the Skype window which again, as described previously, isn’t as easy since the ringer is drowning everything else out. The few times I’ve had a chance to take an incoming call and used the control plus shift plus P command, Skype actually initiates an outgoing call as well as answering the incoming call. This . . . has proven to be problematic to say the least.

More than once already, I’ve found myself trying to orientate myself on the Skype screen to maybe tab to the answer button instead of using the hotkey to avoid this issue with answering/making a duel call, but so far, I haven’t been able to access the answer/accept call button in time.

This leads me into the other issue. I so far have not been able to find any of the telephone settings for Skype. Settings in Skype appear to be super basic. Nothing however for voicemail greeting, managing call forwarding and or ringer time. I know I can probably if need be access some of these features via the Skype web account, but talk about a needless step backwards.

One other thing for Jaws users (I don’t use NVDA enough to know how the dictionary manager works), I had a bunch of saved entries for phone numbers to speak this or that clinic. It seems that the Skype app is Chrome based so, they didn’t port over. I’m sure I can go into my Jaws settings and try and play around with changing a dictionary manager file association, but again, just another inconvenience.

IN broad terms, the app all in all seems accessible and navigating around like a webpage is easy enough, but it lacks some serious functionality.

It is much easier to make calls, but receiving/answering… it’s still rough to say the least.

 



Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Gerald Levy
 

This technique does not confirm conclusively that your computer has shut down. It only proves that your screen reader has been closed. But the computer could conceivably still be on because the shutdown procedure did not complete successfully for some reason. This has happened to me a few times on my Windows 7 desktop. I hear the shut down sound after I activate the Okay button to shut down, but for some reason, the power does not shut off. The DVD tray still opens when I press the eject button,and the fan continues to run. When this happens, I have to press and hold the front panel power button to force the power to shut off. Only when the power is shut off can you say for sure that the computer has completely shut down. But without a shutdown sound, you can't confirm that the shutdown procedure has even been initiated in the first place.

Gerald

-----Original Message-----
From: David & his pack of dogs
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 11:33 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Agreed. The entire thing is so petty. If you want to know if your computer is on or off, do like I have done. Arrow up or down, if it makes a screen reader sound, it is on, if nothing happens, either your computer is off or someone has shut off the sound. For those who bitch about M S, if you don't like it, get a MAC. Time for the little kitties to go to bed and let the adults worry about the important things.

David & his pack of dogs. Benny, Sheena both no longer with us, Champ, Kendra, Richie, and Carmine.
From The Diamond Touch dog Rehabilitation Centre. Privacy Disclaimer This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary, and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copy of this communication is strictly prohibited.

1-844-21PUPPY

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of cecropia64
Sent: July 31, 2018 8:20 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Guess that is what I was thinking as well. I understand all the input on the subject. I guess I just don't understand all the hoopla. What is the big deal? None as far as I can tell. But opinions are vast and everyone has one. Some are more in depth than others. Not everyone will be happy with all when it comes to accessibility. I guess I wish it was more uniform across the board.


Stew


On 7/31/2018 10:54 AM, Mario wrote:
Cecropia64, I agree. if it's trivial to do, why can't MS do it?

-------- Original Message --------
From: cecropia64 [mailto:cecropia64@...]
Sent: Tuesday, Jul 31, 2018 10:29 AM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

It's not like they have to change the program or add any major
increase in size or anything. Just put the sounds back where they
used to be. I, personally, want to make my own choices and want the
sounds there. If I choose to disable them, it's my own choice. But
I'd like to have a choice to make and not have someone else do the choice making for me.


On 7/31/2018 10:11 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:
But even with JAWS 2018, there is still no shutdown sound in Windows
10. The way I see it, if MS has decided to eliminate the shutdown
sound, then it might aswell eliminate all system sounds. What’s the
point of keeping some sounds while eliminating others?
Gerald
*From:* David Ingram <mailto:dingram269@...>
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 31, 2018 10:03 AM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: shut down sound for windows 10 jaws version 16. If
you're using jaws 2018 then you should be able to hear all of your
system sounds with jaws. This doesn't mean that jaws
16 will not work with this latest update of windows 10. It actually does.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonas Voll
Sent: Jul 31, 2018 8:56 AM
To: "main@jfw.groups.io"
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

I do not like other people making Decisions for myself!

Free will, is what I want!

JonasVoll
Support Technician I
Envision, Inc.
2301 S Water ST
Wichita, KS67213
O: 316-425-7141
F: 316-267-4312
www.envisionus.com <http://www.envisionus.com>

Envision: To improve the quality of life and provide inspiration
and opportunity for people who are blind or visually impaired
through employment, outreach, rehabilitation, education and research.


*From:*main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 31, 2018 8:41 AM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: shut down sound for windows 10

On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 09:16 AM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:

I disagree with that statement about Microsoft not caring
about accessibility.

As does anyone who pays the slightest bit of attention. The
creation of Narrator, and the degree of ongoing development of
same, marked a tectonic shift in Microsoft's attitude toward
accessibility.

Although I loved the shutdown sound, and see why it can be useful,
even on a laptop there are easy ways to tell if a computer is shut
down or not. Just place your hand near the fan exit vent and you
will feel the stream of air, which is usually significantly warmer
than any room temperature, cease flowing upon complete shutdown,
as the fans are the last thing to shut down.

The shutdown sound is a triviality in the world of accessibility.
Pick your battles.

--
Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

/The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing
in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the
tempting moment./

~ Dorothy Nevill


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Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Steve Matzura
 

This is the stupidest solution I've ever encountered,but apparently it's the only one. https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/94891-play-sound-shutdown-windows-10-a.html

On 7/30/2018 4:56 PM, Teresa wrote:
good afternoon list: how do I assign a sound when windows 10 shuts down? Thanks to all in advance.


Re: Good and accessible rss client for Windows

Francisco Salvador Crespo
 

Hello.

 

Their oficial website is:

https://feediary.com/

However, I don’t like to have a subscription based rss client. I still looking for a Windows alternative, feedly compatible, that can be free or one purchase license.

 

Best.

 

De: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> En nombre de Jessica D
Enviado el: martes, 31 de julio de 2018 12:58
Para: main@jfw.groups.io
Asunto: Re: Good and accessible rss client for Windows

 

Hi,

I can’t find that app anywhere.

 

How do I get it?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Hope Williamson via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 6:42 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Good and accessible rss client for Windows

 

Thanks for recommending Feediary, I've been looking for a new reader for a while. I'll give that one a try!

 


Re: Good and accessible rss client for Windows

Jessica D
 

Hi,

I can’t find that app anywhere.

 

How do I get it?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Hope Williamson via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 6:42 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Good and accessible rss client for Windows

 

Thanks for recommending Feediary, I've been looking for a new reader for a while. I'll give that one a try!

 


Re: shut down sound for windows 10

 

On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 09:56 AM, Jonas Voll wrote:

I do not like other people making Decisions for myself!

Free will, is what I want!

Oh, puhleeze!!    Product manufacturers make decisions about what they will, or will not, offer all the time.

This is the most inane comment on this issue I've seen.  You, for any you, can make a complaint/offer feedback to a product manufacturer regarding your displeasure with the addition or deletion of a feature.

It has nothing, nothing whatsoever, to do with "free will."
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

          ~ Dorothy Nevill


Re: Problem With Laptop Computer Sleep Functions

Flor Lynch
 

I believe you need to go into your computer’s Power Management settings and fix things there.
 

From: Tom Behler
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 11:47 AM
Subject: Problem With Laptop Computer Sleep Functions

Hello, everyone.

 

A few days ago, I started noticing that my Dell Lattitude Windows 7 laptop no longer goes to sleep when not in use.  I have the monitor set to turn off after a few minutes of non-use both on battery and AC power.  The same goes for the entire computer itself.

 

I have gone into the sleep timer menu and verified that everything is set the way I would like, and made sure to save my changed settings.  But my computer still runs constantly now, even when it is not being  used.

 

I realize that this is likely not a Jaws problem, so I hope it is not considered to be too “off topic” for this list.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Dr.  Tom Behler From Michigan

 

 


Re: Initial Skype for desktop 8 feedback

Cristóbal
 

Correct, but it won’t work when you’re working with multiple desktops.  

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 6:24 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Initial Skype for desktop 8 feedback

 

Why don’t you put Skype on the taskbar and then use Windows Key+whatever number to activate it when it rings? All the applications on your taskbar can be accessed this way, if you have Outlook as the first app, then Skype, Chrome, Excel you just press Windows Key+1 for OUtlook, Windows Key+2 for Skype, Windows Key+3 for Chrome ejtc.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 4:15 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Initial Skype for desktop 8 feedback

 

Hello list,

So, some initial feedback after updating to Skype 8.x

Muscle memory issues with the new keystrokes aside which are always going to take a bit getting used to, I’m finding certain aspects to be quite frustrating. I’ve already written Microsoft about some of this via the feedback option in the app as well as on Twitter.

Anyway, the immediate thing is that with this updated version, there doesn’t seem to be any means to have the Skype ringer alert go to a separate audio source like external or PC speakers. There’s only one option for speakers which if you’re using a headset, which I’m pretty sure most if not all of us are using is the only viable option. More so for those of us who have a paid number. The end result is that when you get an incoming call, the ringer quite easily drowns out anything Jaws (in my case) may say. I don’t use the audio ducking feature as I find it to be too distracting. One can go into the speaker settings in Skype and lower the volume or the speaker settings in Windows 10 to lower Skype volume, but all that accomplishes is that in addition to the ringer being lowered, the call audio is lowered as well. Also, I’ve already twice missed an incoming call because I took my headset off for this or that reason and didn’t hear the ringer alert fast enough through the headset to put it back on and get to the Skype window in time to pick up.

I had mentioned previously that the hotkeys also no longer to appear to be universal. Indeed, this is the case. So now, when you get an incoming call, you have to scramble to the Skype window since at least for me, I’m not taken there automatically and if I’m in a different virtual desktop, the taskbar short cut win key plus X, Y or Z won’t work and try to listen to figure out if I’m finally in the Skype window which again, as described previously, isn’t as easy since the ringer is drowning everything else out. The few times I’ve had a chance to take an incoming call and used the control plus shift plus P command, Skype actually initiates an outgoing call as well as answering the incoming call. This . . . has proven to be problematic to say the least.

More than once already, I’ve found myself trying to orientate myself on the Skype screen to maybe tab to the answer button instead of using the hotkey to avoid this issue with answering/making a duel call, but so far, I haven’t been able to access the answer/accept call button in time.

This leads me into the other issue. I so far have not been able to find any of the telephone settings for Skype. Settings in Skype appear to be super basic. Nothing however for voicemail greeting, managing call forwarding and or ringer time. I know I can probably if need be access some of these features via the Skype web account, but talk about a needless step backwards.

One other thing for Jaws users (I don’t use NVDA enough to know how the dictionary manager works), I had a bunch of saved entries for phone numbers to speak this or that clinic. It seems that the Skype app is Chrome based so, they didn’t port over. I’m sure I can go into my Jaws settings and try and play around with changing a dictionary manager file association, but again, just another inconvenience.

IN broad terms, the app all in all seems accessible and navigating around like a webpage is easy enough, but it lacks some serious functionality.

It is much easier to make calls, but receiving/answering… it’s still rough to say the least.

 


Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Robert Wright <wrightsiphone@...>
 

I am afraid that feature has been taken away.You only have the windows log on or log out

***
Let the joy of helping others be a treasure in your heart!

On Jul 30, 2018, at 2:56 PM, Teresa <pennylain5@...> wrote:

good afternoon list: how do I assign a sound when windows 10 shuts down? Thanks to all in advance.



Re: shut down sound for windows 10

cecropia64
 

insulting too!  Thanks for that.

On 7/31/2018 11:34 AM, Maria Campbell wrote:
Dumb!


Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...

"Preach the Gospel, and when necessary use words!"
--St. Francis

On 7/31/2018 11:33 AM, David & his pack of dogs wrote:
Agreed.  The entire thing is so petty.  If you want to know if your computer is on or off, do like I have done.  Arrow up or down, if it makes a screen reader sound, it is on, if nothing happens, either your computer is off or someone has shut off the sound. For those who bitch about M S, if you don't like it, get a MAC.  Time for the little kitties to go to bed and let the adults worry about the important things.

David & his pack of dogs. Benny, Sheena both no longer with us, Champ, Kendra, Richie, and Carmine.
 From The Diamond Touch dog Rehabilitation Centre. Privacy Disclaimer This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary, and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copy of this communication is strictly prohibited.

1-844-21PUPPY

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of cecropia64
Sent: July 31, 2018 8:20 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Guess that is what I was thinking as well.  I understand  all the input on the subject.  I guess I just don't understand all the hoopla.  What is the big deal?  None as far as I can tell. But opinions are vast and everyone has one.  Some are more in depth than others.  Not everyone will be happy with all when it comes to accessibility.  I guess I wish it was more uniform across the board.


Stew


On 7/31/2018 10:54 AM, Mario wrote:
Cecropia64, I agree. if it's trivial to do, why can't MS do it?

-------- Original Message --------
From: cecropia64 [mailto:cecropia64@...]
Sent: Tuesday, Jul 31, 2018 10:29 AM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

It's not like they have to change the program or add any major
increase in size or anything.  Just put the sounds back where they
used to be. I, personally, want to make my own choices and want the
sounds there. If I choose to disable them, it's my own choice.  But
I'd like to have a choice to make and not have someone else do the choice making for me.


On 7/31/2018 10:11 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:
But even with JAWS 2018, there is still no shutdown sound in Windows
10.  The way I see it, if MS has decided to eliminate the shutdown
sound, then it might aswell eliminate all system sounds. What’s the
point of keeping some sounds while eliminating others?
Gerald
*From:* David Ingram <mailto:dingram269@...>
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 31, 2018 10:03 AM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: shut down sound for windows 10 jaws version 16. If
you're using jaws 2018 then you should be able to hear all of your
system sounds with jaws. This doesn't mean that jaws
16 will not work with this latest update of windows 10. It actually does.

       -----Original Message-----
       From: Jonas Voll
       Sent: Jul 31, 2018 8:56 AM
       To: "main@jfw.groups.io"
       Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

       I do not like other people making Decisions for myself!

       Free will, is what I want!

       JonasVoll
       Support Technician I
       Envision, Inc.
       2301 S Water ST
       Wichita, KS67213
       O: 316-425-7141
       F: 316-267-4312
       www.envisionus.com <http://www.envisionus.com>

       Envision: To improve the quality of life and provide inspiration
       and opportunity for people who are blind or visually impaired
       through employment, outreach, rehabilitation, education and research.


       *From:*main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
       *Brian Vogel
       *Sent:* Tuesday, July 31, 2018 8:41 AM
       *To:* main@jfw.groups.io
       *Subject:* Re: shut down sound for windows 10

       On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 09:16 AM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:

           I disagree with that statement about Microsoft not caring
           about accessibility.

       As does anyone who pays the slightest bit of attention.   The
       creation of Narrator, and the degree of ongoing development of
       same, marked a tectonic shift in Microsoft's attitude toward
       accessibility.

       Although I loved the shutdown sound, and see why it can be useful,
       even on a laptop there are easy ways to tell if a computer is shut
       down or not.  Just place your hand near the fan exit vent and you
       will feel the stream of air, which is usually significantly warmer
       than any room temperature, cease flowing upon complete shutdown,
       as the fans are the last thing to shut down.

       The shutdown sound is a triviality in the world of accessibility.
       Pick your battles.

       --
       Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

       /The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing
       in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the
       tempting moment./

                 ~ Dorothy Nevill


       SonicWall identified this message as clean.

       To manage your junk mail go tohttps://nospam.envisionus.com
       and

       logon with your domain userid and password.

       If you consider this email to be spam please forward it to

       'spam@...'

       *NOTICE:* This electronic mail message and any attached files are
       confidential. The information is exclusively for the use of the
       individual or entity intended as the recipient. If you are not the
       intended recipient, any use, copying, printing, reviewing,
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       or any attached file is not authorized and is strictly prohibited.
       If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please
       advise the sender by reply electronic mail immediately and
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       any copies of this message from your computer system.



















Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Mario
 

Aleeha and anyone who is thinking it's not a big deal, it's really not
but for most it is a big deal, but the point of all of this discussion
leads to questions.
in Microsoft's efforts to improve accessibility, why did Microsoft
decide to disable the playing of some system sounds triggered by their
associated events? if the sounds used to play in previous versions of
Windows, why couldn't Microsoft leave the playing of the sounds alone
and just work on (more important) accessibility improvements?
leaving the sounds intact wouldn't harm anything. they don't prevent the
progress of what ever they have to do to improve accessibility.
and the user could always disable the playing of system sounds by
setting their associations to none if they are so freaked out of having
sounds play for certain system events.

-------- Original Message --------
From: Aleeha Dudley [mailto:blindcowgirl1993@...]
Sent: Tuesday, Jul 31, 2018 10:50 AM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

Hi all,
I am a very infrequent poster on this list, but I needed to contribute
on this one.
The lack of a shutdown sound does NOT indicate a lack of accessibility
You could always use a light detector app to determine if the screen is
off, or place your ear close to the computer to hear the different
sounds stop. Systems change. That’s a fact. The Mac, for example, does
not make the startup sound on the new machines. It’s sad, but it’s true.
In an age where people want faster operating systems and less noise from
machines, Microsoft has to go with what the public wants, not a niche
market. If you really think that Microsoft or any other company is
stepping back in terms of accessibility, I’d strongly encourage you to
do a bit of research into current accessibility developments first.
Aleeha
On Jul 31, 2018, at 9:42 AM, David Ingram <dingram269@...> wrote:

hi list members, what version of jaws are being used currently? If the
answers is jaws 2018 or jaws 17 then you should hear all system sounds.
I'currently using jaws version 16. This means that if you're using jaws
17 or 2018 with windows 10 version 1803 you should hear all system
soundsI'm going to check to see whether windows 10 version 1803 does the
same with firefox?


-----Original Message-----
From: cecropia64 <cecropia64@...>
Sent: Jul 31, 2018 9:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Maybe. But that's what these lists are for. To ask questions and get
answers if there are any to be had.


On 7/31/2018 10:17 AM, Alan Robbins via Groups.Io wrote:
I wish I had a dollar for every time this thread starts up on this list
as well as other lists. It seems to me there must be a reason Microsoft
stopped having a shut down sound. Has anyone ever taken the time to
research this or ask Microsoft? It would seem to me to be energy better
spend than repeatedly asking this question on email lists.

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 9:16 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

I disagree with that statement about Microsoft not caring about
accessibility. If this were so then why the major and continueing
improvements of Narrator and if this statement was true then Apple also
does not care about accessibility (which of course is not true) because
the iPhone makes neither a startup sound nor a shutdown sound.



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 3:51 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10


Taking away the shutdown sound in Windows 10 proves once again that MS
really does not careabout accessibility, contrary to what some list
members believe to the contrary. What possible advantage is there to
having no audible means of confirming that your computer has completely
shut down? On some laptops, the cooling fan is so weak that it is
difficult to impossible to tell whether it is running just by feeling or
placing your ear next to the case, so this may not be a reliable
substitute for the shutdown sound.
Maybe someone who is smarter than me can explain how eliminating the
shutdown sound is an "improvement".

Gerald



Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Mario
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 8:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

in the meantime, it would be appreciated, I think by most blind and/or
sighted users, to send feedback to Microsoft pleeding that the familiar
Windows 7 shutdown sound be reenabled and that any wav file can be
assigned as it was possible with earlier versions of Windows, i.e. via
the sounds applett of the control panel.
there might be a chance MS would consider it if there were compelling
reasons such as for blind users who choose to completely shutdown their
system and are using a laptop (or desktop) that does not have any means
of testing to see if the system is truely shutdown. the more the reasons
that are reasonable, the better the chance MS might do it. no?




-------- Original Message --------
From: cecropia64 [mailto:cecropia64@...]
Sent: Monday, Jul 30, 2018 7:35 PM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

yup, me too. I'm gonna use Windows 7 until Microsoft says "no more".
But by then I hope to have learned enough about Windows 10 to at least
use it without too much of an issue. We shall see about that.


On 7/30/2018 6:24 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:

So how can you tell for sure that your computer has shut down completely
if there is no sound like in Windows 7 and earlier? This is yet another
reason why I'm in no hurry to upgrade to Windows 10.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: Pastor Gil Pries
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 5:10 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

With Windows 10, there is no way to assign a shutdown sound.

Pastor Gil

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Teresa
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 1:56 PM
To: JFW <jfw@groups.io>
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

good afternoon list: how do I assign a sound when windows 10 shuts down?
Thanks to all in advance.














.



























.


Slicers in Microsoft Excel.

Flor Lynch
 

Hi,
 
This is my first message here.
 
A friend has the problem of not being able to access what are called slicers, sometimes used in pivot tables, in Microsoft Excel. He writes:
 
Hi all,
 
Google has got me nowhere on this, so hoping some excel expert here can help ☺️
 
We have a lot of reports and dashboards built in excel at work. For filtering results, many of them use these visual sort of buttons called slicers.
Does anyone know if there is a way of accessing these slicers with a screen reader?
 
In addition, some have refresh buttons inside floating objects? Can I access those with screen readers?
 
Thanks,
Dave


Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Maria Campbell
 

Dumb!


Maria Campbell
lucky1inct@...

"Preach the Gospel, and when necessary use words!"
--St. Francis

On 7/31/2018 11:33 AM, David & his pack of dogs wrote:
Agreed. The entire thing is so petty. If you want to know if your computer is on or off, do like I have done. Arrow up or down, if it makes a screen reader sound, it is on, if nothing happens, either your computer is off or someone has shut off the sound. For those who bitch about M S, if you don't like it, get a MAC. Time for the little kitties to go to bed and let the adults worry about the important things.

David & his pack of dogs. Benny, Sheena both no longer with us, Champ, Kendra, Richie, and Carmine.
From The Diamond Touch dog Rehabilitation Centre. Privacy Disclaimer This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary, and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copy of this communication is strictly prohibited.

1-844-21PUPPY

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of cecropia64
Sent: July 31, 2018 8:20 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Guess that is what I was thinking as well. I understand all the input on the subject. I guess I just don't understand all the hoopla. What is the big deal? None as far as I can tell. But opinions are vast and everyone has one. Some are more in depth than others. Not everyone will be happy with all when it comes to accessibility. I guess I wish it was more uniform across the board.


Stew


On 7/31/2018 10:54 AM, Mario wrote:
Cecropia64, I agree. if it's trivial to do, why can't MS do it?

-------- Original Message --------
From: cecropia64 [mailto:cecropia64@...]
Sent: Tuesday, Jul 31, 2018 10:29 AM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

It's not like they have to change the program or add any major
increase in size or anything. Just put the sounds back where they
used to be. I, personally, want to make my own choices and want the
sounds there. If I choose to disable them, it's my own choice. But
I'd like to have a choice to make and not have someone else do the choice making for me.


On 7/31/2018 10:11 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:
But even with JAWS 2018, there is still no shutdown sound in Windows
10. The way I see it, if MS has decided to eliminate the shutdown
sound, then it might aswell eliminate all system sounds. What’s the
point of keeping some sounds while eliminating others?
Gerald
*From:* David Ingram <mailto:dingram269@...>
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 31, 2018 10:03 AM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: shut down sound for windows 10 jaws version 16. If
you're using jaws 2018 then you should be able to hear all of your
system sounds with jaws. This doesn't mean that jaws
16 will not work with this latest update of windows 10. It actually does.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonas Voll
Sent: Jul 31, 2018 8:56 AM
To: "main@jfw.groups.io"
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

I do not like other people making Decisions for myself!

Free will, is what I want!

JonasVoll
Support Technician I
Envision, Inc.
2301 S Water ST
Wichita, KS67213
O: 316-425-7141
F: 316-267-4312
www.envisionus.com <http://www.envisionus.com>

Envision: To improve the quality of life and provide inspiration
and opportunity for people who are blind or visually impaired
through employment, outreach, rehabilitation, education and research.


*From:*main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 31, 2018 8:41 AM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: shut down sound for windows 10

On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 09:16 AM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:

I disagree with that statement about Microsoft not caring
about accessibility.

As does anyone who pays the slightest bit of attention. The
creation of Narrator, and the degree of ongoing development of
same, marked a tectonic shift in Microsoft's attitude toward
accessibility.

Although I loved the shutdown sound, and see why it can be useful,
even on a laptop there are easy ways to tell if a computer is shut
down or not. Just place your hand near the fan exit vent and you
will feel the stream of air, which is usually significantly warmer
than any room temperature, cease flowing upon complete shutdown,
as the fans are the last thing to shut down.

The shutdown sound is a triviality in the world of accessibility.
Pick your battles.

--
Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

/The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing
in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the
tempting moment./

~ Dorothy Nevill


SonicWall identified this message as clean.

To manage your junk mail go tohttps://nospam.envisionus.com
and

logon with your domain userid and password.

If you consider this email to be spam please forward it to

'spam@...'

*NOTICE:* This electronic mail message and any attached files are
confidential. The information is exclusively for the use of the
individual or entity intended as the recipient. If you are not the
intended recipient, any use, copying, printing, reviewing,
retention, disclosure, distribution or forwarding of the message
or any attached file is not authorized and is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please
advise the sender by reply electronic mail immediately and
permanently delete the original transmission, any attachments and
any copies of this message from your computer system.
















Re: shut down sound for windows 10

David & his pack of dogs
 

Agreed. The entire thing is so petty. If you want to know if your computer is on or off, do like I have done. Arrow up or down, if it makes a screen reader sound, it is on, if nothing happens, either your computer is off or someone has shut off the sound. For those who bitch about M S, if you don't like it, get a MAC. Time for the little kitties to go to bed and let the adults worry about the important things.

David & his pack of dogs. Benny, Sheena both no longer with us, Champ, Kendra, Richie, and Carmine.
From The Diamond Touch dog Rehabilitation Centre. Privacy Disclaimer This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary, and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copy of this communication is strictly prohibited.

1-844-21PUPPY

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of cecropia64
Sent: July 31, 2018 8:20 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Guess that is what I was thinking as well. I understand all the input on the subject. I guess I just don't understand all the hoopla. What is the big deal? None as far as I can tell. But opinions are vast and everyone has one. Some are more in depth than others. Not everyone will be happy with all when it comes to accessibility. I guess I wish it was more uniform across the board.


Stew


On 7/31/2018 10:54 AM, Mario wrote:
Cecropia64, I agree. if it's trivial to do, why can't MS do it?

-------- Original Message --------
From: cecropia64 [mailto:cecropia64@...]
Sent: Tuesday, Jul 31, 2018 10:29 AM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

It's not like they have to change the program or add any major
increase in size or anything. Just put the sounds back where they
used to be. I, personally, want to make my own choices and want the
sounds there. If I choose to disable them, it's my own choice. But
I'd like to have a choice to make and not have someone else do the choice making for me.


On 7/31/2018 10:11 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:
But even with JAWS 2018, there is still no shutdown sound in Windows
10. The way I see it, if MS has decided to eliminate the shutdown
sound, then it might aswell eliminate all system sounds. What’s the
point of keeping some sounds while eliminating others?
Gerald
*From:* David Ingram <mailto:dingram269@...>
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 31, 2018 10:03 AM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: shut down sound for windows 10 jaws version 16. If
you're using jaws 2018 then you should be able to hear all of your
system sounds with jaws. This doesn't mean that jaws
16 will not work with this latest update of windows 10. It actually does.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonas Voll
Sent: Jul 31, 2018 8:56 AM
To: "main@jfw.groups.io"
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

I do not like other people making Decisions for myself!

Free will, is what I want!

JonasVoll
Support Technician I
Envision, Inc.
2301 S Water ST
Wichita, KS67213
O: 316-425-7141
F: 316-267-4312
www.envisionus.com <http://www.envisionus.com>

Envision: To improve the quality of life and provide inspiration
and opportunity for people who are blind or visually impaired
through employment, outreach, rehabilitation, education and research.


*From:*main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 31, 2018 8:41 AM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: shut down sound for windows 10

On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 09:16 AM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:

I disagree with that statement about Microsoft not caring
about accessibility.

As does anyone who pays the slightest bit of attention. The
creation of Narrator, and the degree of ongoing development of
same, marked a tectonic shift in Microsoft's attitude toward
accessibility.

Although I loved the shutdown sound, and see why it can be useful,
even on a laptop there are easy ways to tell if a computer is shut
down or not. Just place your hand near the fan exit vent and you
will feel the stream of air, which is usually significantly warmer
than any room temperature, cease flowing upon complete shutdown,
as the fans are the last thing to shut down.

The shutdown sound is a triviality in the world of accessibility.
Pick your battles.

--
Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

/The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing
in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the
tempting moment./

~ Dorothy Nevill


SonicWall identified this message as clean.

To manage your junk mail go tohttps://nospam.envisionus.com
and

logon with your domain userid and password.

If you consider this email to be spam please forward it to

'spam@...'

*NOTICE:* This electronic mail message and any attached files are
confidential. The information is exclusively for the use of the
individual or entity intended as the recipient. If you are not the
intended recipient, any use, copying, printing, reviewing,
retention, disclosure, distribution or forwarding of the message
or any attached file is not authorized and is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please
advise the sender by reply electronic mail immediately and
permanently delete the original transmission, any attachments and
any copies of this message from your computer system.












Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Aleeha Dudley
 

No, actually, I have spoke to many sighted people who like the ribbons better. I myself like them better. You can still use classic keyboard shortcuts.
Aleeha

MS doesn't give a rat's ass what the public thinks. If it did, it would have replaced the much-despised ribbon menu structure with the more convenient and less cumbersome classic menu structure that most of its customers, sighted and blind alike, prefer. On the contrary, MS seems to go out of its way to frustrate and tick off its customers just to prove that they can do anything they damn well please and get away with it.

Gerald

-----Original Message----- From: Aleeha Dudley
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 10:50 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Hi all,
I am a very infrequent poster on this list, but I needed to contribute on this one.
The lack of a shutdown sound does NOT indicate a lack of accessibility You could always use a light detector app to determine if the screen is off, or place your ear close to the computer to hear the different sounds stop. Systems change. That’s a fact. The Mac, for example, does not make the startup sound on the new machines. It’s sad, but it’s true. In an age where people want faster operating systems and less noise from machines, Microsoft has to go with what the public wants, not a niche market. If you really think that Microsoft or any other company is stepping back in terms of accessibility, I’d strongly encourage you to do a bit of research into current accessibility developments first.
Aleeha
On Jul 31, 2018, at 9:42 AM, David Ingram <dingram269@...> wrote:

hi list members, what version of jaws are being used currently? If the answers is jaws 2018 or jaws 17 then you should hear all system sounds. I'currently using jaws version 16. This means that if you're using jaws 17 or 2018 with windows 10 version 1803 you should hear all system soundsI'm going to check to see whether windows 10 version 1803 does the same with firefox?


-----Original Message-----
From: cecropia64 <cecropia64@...>
Sent: Jul 31, 2018 9:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Maybe. But that's what these lists are for. To ask questions and get
answers if there are any to be had.


On 7/31/2018 10:17 AM, Alan Robbins via Groups.Io wrote:
I wish I had a dollar for every time this thread starts up on this list as well as other lists. It seems to me there must be a reason Microsoft stopped having a shut down sound. Has anyone ever taken the time to research this or ask Microsoft? It would seem to me to be energy better spend than repeatedly asking this question on email lists.

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 9:16 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

I disagree with that statement about Microsoft not caring about accessibility. If this were so then why the major and continueing improvements of Narrator and if this statement was true then Apple also does not care about accessibility (which of course is not true) because the iPhone makes neither a startup sound nor a shutdown sound.



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 3:51 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10


Taking away the shutdown sound in Windows 10 proves once again that MS really does not careabout accessibility, contrary to what some list members believe to the contrary. What possible advantage is there to having no audible means of confirming that your computer has completely shut down? On some laptops, the cooling fan is so weak that it is difficult to impossible to tell whether it is running just by feeling or placing your ear next to the case, so this may not be a reliable substitute for the shutdown sound.
Maybe someone who is smarter than me can explain how eliminating the shutdown sound is an "improvement".

Gerald



Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Mario
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 8:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

in the meantime, it would be appreciated, I think by most blind and/or sighted users, to send feedback to Microsoft pleeding that the familiar Windows 7 shutdown sound be reenabled and that any wav file can be assigned as it was possible with earlier versions of Windows, i.e. via the sounds applett of the control panel.
there might be a chance MS would consider it if there were compelling reasons such as for blind users who choose to completely shutdown their system and are using a laptop (or desktop) that does not have any means of testing to see if the system is truely shutdown. the more the reasons that are reasonable, the better the chance MS might do it. no?




-------- Original Message --------
From: cecropia64 [mailto:cecropia64@...]
Sent: Monday, Jul 30, 2018 7:35 PM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

yup, me too. I'm gonna use Windows 7 until Microsoft says "no more".
But by then I hope to have learned enough about Windows 10 to at least use it without too much of an issue. We shall see about that.


On 7/30/2018 6:24 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:

So how can you tell for sure that your computer has shut down completely if there is no sound like in Windows 7 and earlier? This is yet another reason why I'm in no hurry to upgrade to Windows 10.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: Pastor Gil Pries
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 5:10 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

With Windows 10, there is no way to assign a shutdown sound.

Pastor Gil

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Teresa
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 1:56 PM
To: JFW <jfw@groups.io>
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

good afternoon list: how do I assign a sound when windows 10 shuts down?
Thanks to all in advance.














.



















Re: shut down sound for windows 10

cecropia64
 

Problem is that Microsoft isn't blind.  They really have no idea how hard it can be for us.  If they did I think they'd put more effort into it.  I know they have come a long way but it would be nice if they made the normal stuff more useable as well, not just their own stuff.

On 7/31/2018 11:18 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:

MS doesn't give a rat's ass what the public thinks.  If it did, it would have replaced the much-despised ribbon menu structure with the more convenient and less cumbersome classic menu structure that most of its customers, sighted and blind alike,  prefer. On the contrary, MS seems to go out of its way to frustrate and tick off its customers just to prove that they can do anything they damn well please and get away with it.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: Aleeha Dudley
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 10:50 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Hi all,
I am a very infrequent poster on this list, but I needed to contribute on this one.
The lack of a shutdown sound does NOT indicate a lack of accessibility You could always use a light detector app to determine if the screen is off, or place your ear close to the computer to hear the different sounds stop. Systems change. That’s a fact. The Mac, for example, does not make the startup sound on the new machines. It’s sad, but it’s true. In an age where people want faster operating systems and less noise from machines, Microsoft has to go with what the public wants, not a niche market. If you really think that Microsoft or any other company is stepping back in terms of accessibility, I’d strongly encourage you to do a bit of research into current accessibility developments first.
Aleeha
On Jul 31, 2018, at 9:42 AM, David Ingram <dingram269@...> wrote:

hi list members, what version of jaws are being used currently? If the answers is jaws 2018 or jaws 17 then you should hear all system sounds. I'currently using jaws version 16.  This means that if you're using jaws 17 or 2018 with windows 10 version 1803 you should hear all system soundsI'm going to check to see whether windows 10 version 1803 does the same with firefox?


-----Original Message-----
From: cecropia64 <cecropia64@...>
Sent: Jul 31, 2018 9:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Maybe.  But that's what these lists are for.  To ask questions and get
answers if there are any to be had.


On 7/31/2018 10:17 AM, Alan Robbins via Groups.Io wrote:
I wish I had a dollar for every time this thread starts up on this list as well as other lists. It seems to me there must be a reason Microsoft stopped having a shut down sound. Has anyone ever taken the time to research this or ask Microsoft? It would seem to me to be energy better spend than repeatedly asking this question on email lists.

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 9:16 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

I disagree with that statement about Microsoft not caring about accessibility. If this were so then why the major and continueing improvements of Narrator and if this statement was true then Apple also does not care about accessibility (which of course is not true) because the iPhone makes neither a startup sound nor a shutdown sound.



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 3:51 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10


Taking away the shutdown sound in Windows 10 proves once again that MS really does not careabout accessibility, contrary to what some list members believe to the contrary. What possible advantage is there to having no audible means of confirming that your computer has completely shut down? On some laptops, the cooling fan is so weak that it is difficult to impossible to tell whether it is running just by feeling or placing your ear next to the case, so this may not be a reliable substitute for the shutdown sound.
Maybe someone who is smarter than me can explain how eliminating the shutdown sound is an "improvement".

Gerald



Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Mario
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 8:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

in the meantime, it would be appreciated, I think by most blind and/or sighted users, to send feedback to Microsoft pleeding that the familiar Windows 7 shutdown sound be reenabled and that any wav file can be assigned as it was possible with earlier versions of Windows, i.e. via the sounds applett of the control panel.
there might be a chance MS would consider it if there were compelling reasons such as for blind users who choose to completely shutdown their system and are using a laptop (or desktop) that does not have any means of testing to see if the system is truely shutdown. the more the reasons that are reasonable, the better the chance MS might do it. no?




-------- Original Message --------
From: cecropia64 [mailto:cecropia64@...]
Sent: Monday, Jul 30, 2018 7:35 PM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

yup, me too.  I'm gonna use Windows 7 until Microsoft says "no more".
But by then I hope to have learned enough about Windows 10 to at least use it without too much of an issue.  We shall see about that.


On 7/30/2018 6:24 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:

So how can you tell for sure that your computer has shut down completely if there is no sound like in Windows 7 and earlier? This is yet another reason why I'm in no hurry to upgrade to Windows 10.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: Pastor Gil Pries
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 5:10 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

With Windows 10, there is no way to assign a shutdown sound.

Pastor Gil

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Teresa
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 1:56 PM
To: JFW <jfw@groups.io>
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

good afternoon list: how do I assign a sound when windows 10 shuts down?
Thanks to all in advance.














.
























Re: shut down sound for windows 10

cecropia64
 

Guess that is what I was thinking as well.  I understand  all the input on the subject.  I guess I just don't understand all the hoopla.  What is the big deal?  None as far as I can tell.  But opinions are vast and everyone has one.  Some are more in depth than others.  Not everyone will be happy with all when it comes to accessibility.  I guess I wish it was more uniform across the board.


Stew

On 7/31/2018 10:54 AM, Mario wrote:
Cecropia64, I agree. if it's trivial to do, why can't MS do it?

-------- Original Message --------
From: cecropia64 [mailto:cecropia64@...]
Sent: Tuesday, Jul 31, 2018 10:29 AM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

It's not like they have to change the program or add any major increase
in size or anything.  Just put the sounds back where they used to be. I,
personally, want to make my own choices and want the sounds there. If I
choose to disable them, it's my own choice.  But I'd like to have a
choice to make and not have someone else do the choice making for me.


On 7/31/2018 10:11 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:
But even with JAWS 2018, there is still no shutdown sound in Windows
10.  The way I see it, if MS has decided to eliminate the shutdown
sound, then it might aswell eliminate all system sounds.  What’s the
point of keeping some sounds while eliminating others?
Gerald
*From:* David Ingram <mailto:dingram269@...>
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 31, 2018 10:03 AM
*To:* main@jfw.groups.io <mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: shut down sound for windows 10
jaws version 16. If you're using jaws 2018 then you should be able to
hear all of your system sounds with jaws. This doesn't mean that jaws
16 will not work with this latest update of windows 10. It actually does.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Jonas Voll
    Sent: Jul 31, 2018 8:56 AM
    To: "main@jfw.groups.io"
    Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

    I do not like other people making Decisions for myself!

    Free will, is what I want!

    JonasVoll
    Support Technician I
    Envision, Inc.
    2301 S Water ST
    Wichita, KS67213
    O: 316-425-7141
    F: 316-267-4312
    www.envisionus.com <http://www.envisionus.com>

    Envision: To improve the quality of life and provide inspiration
    and opportunity for people who are blind or visually impaired
    through employment, outreach, rehabilitation, education and research.


    *From:*main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
    *Brian Vogel
    *Sent:* Tuesday, July 31, 2018 8:41 AM
    *To:* main@jfw.groups.io
    *Subject:* Re: shut down sound for windows 10

    On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 09:16 AM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:

        I disagree with that statement about Microsoft not caring
        about accessibility.

    As does anyone who pays the slightest bit of attention.   The
    creation of Narrator, and the degree of ongoing development of
    same, marked a tectonic shift in Microsoft's attitude toward
    accessibility.

    Although I loved the shutdown sound, and see why it can be useful,
    even on a laptop there are easy ways to tell if a computer is shut
    down or not.  Just place your hand near the fan exit vent and you
    will feel the stream of air, which is usually significantly warmer
    than any room temperature, cease flowing upon complete shutdown,
    as the fans are the last thing to shut down.

    The shutdown sound is a triviality in the world of accessibility.
    Pick your battles.

    --
    Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

    /The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing
    in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the
    tempting moment./

              ~ Dorothy Nevill


    SonicWall identified this message as clean.

    To manage your junk mail go tohttps://nospam.envisionus.com
    and

    logon with your domain userid and password.

    If you consider this email to be spam please forward it to

    'spam@...'

    *NOTICE:* This electronic mail message and any attached files are
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    If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please
    advise the sender by reply electronic mail immediately and
    permanently delete the original transmission, any attachments and
    any copies of this message from your computer system.











Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Gerald Levy
 

MS doesn't give a rat's ass what the public thinks. If it did, it would have replaced the much-despised ribbon menu structure with the more convenient and less cumbersome classic menu structure that most of its customers, sighted and blind alike, prefer. On the contrary, MS seems to go out of its way to frustrate and tick off its customers just to prove that they can do anything they damn well please and get away with it.

Gerald

-----Original Message-----
From: Aleeha Dudley
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 10:50 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Hi all,
I am a very infrequent poster on this list, but I needed to contribute on this one.
The lack of a shutdown sound does NOT indicate a lack of accessibility You could always use a light detector app to determine if the screen is off, or place your ear close to the computer to hear the different sounds stop. Systems change. That’s a fact. The Mac, for example, does not make the startup sound on the new machines. It’s sad, but it’s true. In an age where people want faster operating systems and less noise from machines, Microsoft has to go with what the public wants, not a niche market. If you really think that Microsoft or any other company is stepping back in terms of accessibility, I’d strongly encourage you to do a bit of research into current accessibility developments first.
Aleeha
On Jul 31, 2018, at 9:42 AM, David Ingram <dingram269@...> wrote:

hi list members, what version of jaws are being used currently? If the answers is jaws 2018 or jaws 17 then you should hear all system sounds. I'currently using jaws version 16. This means that if you're using jaws 17 or 2018 with windows 10 version 1803 you should hear all system soundsI'm going to check to see whether windows 10 version 1803 does the same with firefox?


-----Original Message-----
From: cecropia64 <cecropia64@...>
Sent: Jul 31, 2018 9:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

Maybe. But that's what these lists are for. To ask questions and get
answers if there are any to be had.


On 7/31/2018 10:17 AM, Alan Robbins via Groups.Io wrote:
I wish I had a dollar for every time this thread starts up on this list as well as other lists. It seems to me there must be a reason Microsoft stopped having a shut down sound. Has anyone ever taken the time to research this or ask Microsoft? It would seem to me to be energy better spend than repeatedly asking this question on email lists.

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 9:16 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

I disagree with that statement about Microsoft not caring about accessibility. If this were so then why the major and continueing improvements of Narrator and if this statement was true then Apple also does not care about accessibility (which of course is not true) because the iPhone makes neither a startup sound nor a shutdown sound.



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 3:51 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10


Taking away the shutdown sound in Windows 10 proves once again that MS really does not careabout accessibility, contrary to what some list members believe to the contrary. What possible advantage is there to having no audible means of confirming that your computer has completely shut down? On some laptops, the cooling fan is so weak that it is difficult to impossible to tell whether it is running just by feeling or placing your ear next to the case, so this may not be a reliable substitute for the shutdown sound.
Maybe someone who is smarter than me can explain how eliminating the shutdown sound is an "improvement".

Gerald



Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Mario
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 8:50 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

in the meantime, it would be appreciated, I think by most blind and/or sighted users, to send feedback to Microsoft pleeding that the familiar Windows 7 shutdown sound be reenabled and that any wav file can be assigned as it was possible with earlier versions of Windows, i.e. via the sounds applett of the control panel.
there might be a chance MS would consider it if there were compelling reasons such as for blind users who choose to completely shutdown their system and are using a laptop (or desktop) that does not have any means of testing to see if the system is truely shutdown. the more the reasons that are reasonable, the better the chance MS might do it. no?




-------- Original Message --------
From: cecropia64 [mailto:cecropia64@...]
Sent: Monday, Jul 30, 2018 7:35 PM EST
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

yup, me too. I'm gonna use Windows 7 until Microsoft says "no more".
But by then I hope to have learned enough about Windows 10 to at least use it without too much of an issue. We shall see about that.


On 7/30/2018 6:24 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:

So how can you tell for sure that your computer has shut down completely if there is no sound like in Windows 7 and earlier? This is yet another reason why I'm in no hurry to upgrade to Windows 10.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: Pastor Gil Pries
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 5:10 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: shut down sound for windows 10

With Windows 10, there is no way to assign a shutdown sound.

Pastor Gil

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Teresa
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 1:56 PM
To: JFW <jfw@groups.io>
Subject: shut down sound for windows 10

good afternoon list: how do I assign a sound when windows 10 shuts down?
Thanks to all in advance.














.