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Re: Opening a link in a new tab from the "List of Links" dialog
Bissett, Tom <tom.bissett@...>
I have not found a way. I always have to use the move to link and press enter and then use the application key to allow me to open in another tab or window. Regards Tom Bisset
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2018 7:45 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Opening a link in a new tab from the "List of Links" dialog
On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 04:12 pm, netbat66 wrote: is this while in the browser? No. I don't know how much more clear I can be about wanting to be able to trigger this directly out of the JAWS "List of Links" dialog. Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime. ~ Mark Twain
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Re: Office 365 Help please
Sieghard Weitzel <sieghard@...>
That discrepancy also was what I first noticed, she is talking about Office 365 and then about Outlook 2010. I guess you can have an Office 365 subscription and not install Office 2016 but use Office 2010 instead, but the amount of potential issues with such a setup is so great I wouldn’t even go there and after all, one of the benefits of an Office 365 subscription is that you have access to the latest version of Office and while I agree that in Office 2010 a few things were quite easy and yes, even a bit more accessible, it is so old by now that it also comes with a lot of problems.
Regards, Sieghard
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Richard Turner
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 4:52 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Office 365 Help please
If you have Office 365, and you left Outlook 2010 installed, there is your problem. Office 365 installs Outlook 2016. You should not be running two versions together. At least that is my understanding. Even though it may not be jaws related, you use Jaws, so I'd highly suggest calling Microsoft accessibility: 1-800-936-5900. Richard
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain
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moderated
Re: Firefox Quantum, Version 60, and getting to browser control buttons
Sieghard Weitzel <sieghard@...>
I saw your original message and could not find any way or key combination to get to those buttons/options. Definitely a big shortcoming in Firefox.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 7:43 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Firefox Quantum, Version 60, and getting to browser control buttons
Just thought I'd give this a bump in hopes the original got lost in the mix or that "new eyes" might have arrived in the last five days. Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime. ~ Mark Twain
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Re: Jabber Scripts
HH. Smith Jr.
Perter,
You can get them for free through cisco if you have a service contract with them.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2018 10:10 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Cc: braille@... Subject: Jabber Scripts
Good evening everyone,
Mhy wife Mary began using Jabber for days when she telecommutes from home. She decided to do this so our land line won't be tied up on these days. We're curious to know if anyone has developed scripts for Jabber and where we can get them? GThanks for your help.
Peter Donahue
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moderated
Re: Multiple Signatures
Steve Griffiths
I can use Alt + H, A, S to get a list of my signatures whether I'm creating a new message or replying to one. Thanks, Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel Sent: 11 June 2018 16:55 To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Multiple Signatures Hi Steve, If you compose a new message you can select signatures under Home > Include > Signatures, shortcut is Alt+H then a and s However, if you reply to a message it's under Message > Include > Signatures and the shortcut is a bit more complicated, Alte+E then 2, a and s. If there is another way then I don't know it, I Googled this and found where to go in the ribbon and then simply recorded the shortcut keys. -----Original Message----- From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Cook, Steve Sent: Monday, June 11, 2018 8:27 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Multiple Signatures Hi All, Using JAWS 2018, Outlook 2016, on a Windows 10 computer. I have multiple signatures in Outlook. I know there is a keystroke to choose my signature for my messages, but I can't recall what it is. Does anyone know the keystroke? Thanks in advance! steve If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this email and notify the sender immediately. Any views or opinions expressed in this email are those of the sender only, unless otherwise stated. All emails, incoming and outgoing, may be recorded by Guide Dogs and monitored for legitimate business purposes. Guide Dogs exclude all liability for any loss or damage arising or resulting from the receipt, use or transmission of this email to the fullest extent permitted by law. The Guide Dogs for the Blind Association Tel: 0118 983 5555 Email: guidedogs@... Website: https://www.guidedogs.org.uk Registered Office: Hillfields, Burghfield Common, Reading, Berkshire, RG7 3YG. A company limited by guarantee, registered in England and Wales (291646) and a charity registered in England and Wales (209617) and Scotland (SC038979).
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moderated
Re: Focused inbox in Microsoft Outlook for Windows
Steve Griffiths
There is an area above the list of messages which contains options for it. I've got a search facility, ways to sort the list of messages, and the Focused and Other buttons when I'm in Focused Inbox, or All and Unread when I'm not in Focused Inbox. From my Inbox list of messages I can Tab into this area. I have to Tab four times to get to the Focused button, and once more for the Other button. But if I keep Tabbing, I never return to the Inbox list of messages, which is weird. I either have to choose an option and press Enter, or press Escape to get back to my list of messages. Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jason White via Groups.Io Sent: 12 June 2018 01:00 To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Focused inbox in Microsoft Outlook for Windows I found that you can move a message from "focused" to "other" using an option in the context menu. However, I'm still not sure what the quickest way is to move to the buttons that switch between the "focused" and "other" messages in the inbox. Other than that, I haven't encountered any problems so far. -----Original Message----- From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Longmore Sent: Monday, June 11, 2018 6:48 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Focused inbox in Microsoft Outlook for Windows Can't really help except to say I found Focused inbox annoying in terms of working with JAWS. -----Original Message----- From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jason White via Groups.Io Sent: Monday, June 11, 2018 2:58 PM To: main <main@jfw.groups.io> Subject: Focused inbox in Microsoft Outlook for Windows I'm trying to manage my mail better by invoking the "focused inbox" option in Outlook for Windows (the latest version installed from Office 365). After turning on Focused Inbox within the View tab, what's the easiest way to switch between the "focused" and "other" inboxes, and to move messages between the two? Focused Inbox works well under Microsoft Outlook for iOS, but it isn't obvious how to use it with JAWS (or any other screen reader) under Windows. So, hints would be welcome from those who have been there already. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this email and notify the sender immediately. Any views or opinions expressed in this email are those of the sender only, unless otherwise stated. All emails, incoming and outgoing, may be recorded by Guide Dogs and monitored for legitimate business purposes. Guide Dogs exclude all liability for any loss or damage arising or resulting from the receipt, use or transmission of this email to the fullest extent permitted by law. The Guide Dogs for the Blind Association Tel: 0118 983 5555 Email: guidedogs@... Website: https://www.guidedogs.org.uk Registered Office: Hillfields, Burghfield Common, Reading, Berkshire, RG7 3YG. A company limited by guarantee, registered in England and Wales (291646) and a charity registered in England and Wales (209617) and Scotland (SC038979).
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Re: Firefox Quantum, Version 60, and getting to browser control buttons
Just thought I'd give this a bump in hopes the original got lost in the mix or that "new eyes" might have arrived in the last five days.
Does anyone know how to throw focus on to the Firefox menu button (not the classic menu, via ALT or ALT plus letter) and then navigate to the buttons to its left? Without keyboard access to this area it's impossible to fire up the Read Aloud add-on, which means it's completely inaccessible to its primary target demographic. I know I used to be able to do this and, at this point, have tried everything I can think of and resorted to multiple forums trying to find out if anyone knows how to do it. So far, crickets. . . -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime. ~ Mark Twain
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Re: how to get Jaws to spell an email address
Steve Nutt
Surely, it's easier to focus on the to field if you want to spell the Email address, and press JAWS key and Up Arrow twice quickly. This will spell out the Email address. No need to paste it anywhere.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
All the best Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gaylen Kapperman Sent: 25 May 2018 18:37 To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: how to get Jaws to spell an email address Val, whenever I have to do this, I highlight the e-mail address and then paste it into a Word doc which is, then, accessible. Then, of course, I can work with it in any way I want. Gaylen Kapperman -----Original Message----- From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Val Paul Sent: Friday, May 25, 2018 12:32 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: how to get Jaws to spell an email address Hi Everyone! Could someone tell me how to get jaws to spell email addresses. Trying to take a note of my email addresses so that i can put them in a separate folder. Thanks a lot. Val.
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moderated
Re: installing printer drivers
george b <gbmagoo@...>
Kevin
From the desktop hit the windows key Type in printer in the edit field and you will see printer and scanner hit enter My win 10 defalted to the button add printer / scanner hit enter on that and follow the prompts
If it did not defalt to add printer / scanner then tab to you hear this and hit enter
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of kevin meyers
Sent: June 12, 2018 6:34 To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: installing printer drivers
Hello, I have a HP printer and I need to install the printer drivers. The HP site says I should use Windows solutions. I cannot find this on my laptop. I’m using Windows 10. Thanks, Kevin
Kevin Meyers 414-839-0635
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Re: installing printer drivers
Kevin,
Virtually all printer hardware or multifunction hardware is plug and play under Windows 10. "Windows solutions" is code speak for plug the thing in and let Windows install a driver that works. That being said, this really depends on the age of the printer. If you're trying to use something like an ancient Deskjet model or the like there will not be any built-in drivers under Win10 for it. If this is the case I would try downloading whatever the last and latest set of Windows drivers were from the HP site and try installing those. I have seen drivers from as early as Windows 7 sometimes work, and most from the Windows 8/8.1 era will work. If the printer predates that era you may need to find a new one. -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime. ~ Mark Twain
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moderated
installing printer drivers
kevin meyers
Hello, I have a HP printer and I need to install the printer drivers. The HP site says I should use Windows solutions. I cannot find this on my laptop. I’m using Windows 10. Thanks, Kevin
Kevin Meyers 414-839-0635
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moderated
Re: Goldwave
Bill White <billwhite92701@...>
Hi, Amanda. In Windows 10, try the following to get the exact windows version and build:
Press Windows key plus the letter R
When the “Run” dialog appears, type:
winver
Your screen reader will speak the exact Windows version and build.
Bill White billwhite92701@...
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Amanda Berkley
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 6:08 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Goldwave
I have Windows 10. I’ll download it and give it a try. Thanks! Amanda
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moderated
Re: Goldwave
Amanda Berkley
I have Windows 10.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I’ll download it and give it a try. Thanks! Amanda
On Jun 11, 2018, at 9:45 PM, Bill White <billwhite92701@...> wrote:
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moderated
Re: Office 365 Help please
Richard Turner <richardturner42@...>
If you have Office 365, and you left Outlook 2010 installed, there is your problem. Office 365 installs Outlook 2016. You should not be running two versions together. At least that is my understanding. Even though it may not be jaws related, you use Jaws, so
I'd highly suggest calling Microsoft accessibility: 1-800-936-5900.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Richard
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain
On Jun 12, 2018, at 2:44 AM, Lynne Moore <lynne57moore@...> wrote:
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Office 365 Help please
Lynne Moore
Hello,
I was wondering if one of you kind souls would mind giving me some
help. I’m having a problem with office 365, microsoft outlook 2010 and
Windows 7. The problem isn’t JAWS-related, so I can’t discuss it on the
list. If anyone would be willing to help, could you write me privately at
lynne57moore@...? Thank
you.
Lynne Moore
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Re: Goldwave
netbat66
i think the trial lets you use it 100 times before you have to pay for it.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Turner Sent: Monday, June 11, 2018 7:57 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Goldwave GoldWave will work with most Windows versions. What I brought up was about your recording Windows sounds, and therefore things you hear over the speakers. Download GoldWave and read about how to select recording what you hear in the manual, and then decide if you want to pay for it. You can use all of its functions before you pay. Chances are, you can do what you want. Best to try it and see. Richard "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain On Jun 11, 2018, at 7:45 PM, Bill White <billwhite92701@dslextreme.com> wrote: Hi, Amanda. Do you know if you have Windows 7 or Windows 10? Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com -----Original Message----- From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Amanda Berkley Sent: Monday, June 11, 2018 6:43 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Goldwave Is there a way to know what version of Windows I have to see if it's a version that will work with Goldwave? On 6/10/18, Richard Turner <richardturner42@outlook.com> wrote: Some versions had blocked recording what you hear over the speakers, which also blocks internet streaming from being recorded, since I have no idea what version of Windows you are running, I thought it would be helpful to say that since I could not say absolutely that yes, you can record what you want with Goldwave. Perhaps that was simply too much information, but I don't like making statements too broadly either. Richard “The secret is not to make your music louder, but to make the world quieter.” - Mitch Albom from The Magic Strings of Frankie Presto, page 1 -----Original Message----- From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Amanda Berkley Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2018 11:00 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Goldwave What do you mean if my version of windows allows it? I have Windows 10... On 6/10/18, Richard Turner <richardturner42@outlook.com> wrote: Yes, if your version of Windows allows it. Goldwave is my all time favorite application for recording. You will want to read the manual sections about selecting your recording source. You also will want the Goldwave scripts for Jaws, in which case it works very well with Jaws. Here is the link to the scripts. https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jaws-users.com%2Fscripts%2FAudio%2Fgoldwave_5-6_jaws_scripts_2_0.zip&data=02%7C01%7C%7C16c1ac436cd94d6d858108d5cefbec9a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636642503749538223&sdata=I1gYuIwWoqopXbvy3bJh4lLpBoyNBXR76cZ51rG3%2BPY%3D&reserved=0 HTH, Richard “The secret is not to make your music louder, but to make the world quieter.” - Mitch Albom from The Magic Strings of Frankie Presto, page 1 -----Original Message----- From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Amanda Berkley Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2018 10:29 AM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Goldwave Can you record system sound with Goldwave? I'm looking for something that I can record something from iTunes or Windows Media Player, and the recording will stop when the track ends. Does this sound like something Goldwave can do? Does Goldwave play nice with JAWS? Thanks, Amanda
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moderated
Re: Computers to Help People, Take a Different Road
Cristóbal
Not everyone on these lists live hand to mouth or find themselves in dire straights. Some of us are in fact business owners and professionals who do well for ourselves and our family’s. Recognizing the unique challenges, financial and otherwise the community that we find ourselves in and that have to deal with no matter how we ended up being part of that community. Be it through illness, age, accident or some other means and applauding any effort that is made to make accessible any tools that can only improve ones living situation is not somehow a slippery slope for advocating to live off of the government or license to wallow in self-pity. John Bradford: “there but for the grace of God go I” and all that. Again, for a lot of us, this development has no real tangible impact, but for those who have a need and do not have the means readily available to them regardless of why, this really is great news for them. No matter what VFO’s motives are.
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2018 7:24 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Computers to Help People, Take a Different Road
Hello Dan and everyone,
Thank you! It's great not to be alone in this thinking.
Mary's new desktop was built for her by a company here in San Antonio called "Computer Nerdz."For anyone living in the Austin and San antonio areas their Website is: http://www.computernerdz.com
Last year they built this machine with top-of-the-line components and we use their Proactive Monitoring Service to keep it free from threats. They'll be building me a new desktop later this year.
They're very good about getting technicians out when you need them even on Sunday afternoons. Many of their technicians are familliar with Jaws and other assistive technology and will work closely with those who use this technology to be sure all works correctly when their repairs are done. They have also helped us with Roku-related matters too.
Like Dan some of us chose to find alternatives to vocational rehabilitation for obtaining VFO and other assistive technology products we need for school, work, and whatever else. Perhaps a little more outreaching and a little less scorning would enable others here to do the same.
Peter Donahue
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Longmore
Yes, both we as blind individuals and advocacy groups bear some of the blame for ongoing unemployment rates. So as a self employed individual one of my burdens is to see this rate decreased. I sit here willing to help work at a grass roots level with ideas to slow or end this problem.
Dan
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Your accusations against Computers for the Blind are totally outrageous and out of line. They provide a valuable service, and I can attest from personal experience that their refurbished computers are not defective as you imply. In fact, I am composing this message on a refurbed Dell Optiplex desktop that I acquired from them three years ago, and it works perfectly. As ffor blind people getting out into the work force, the unemployment rate, by the NFB’s own admission is 70%, a figure which has not changed in decades, and a situation for which, as far as I am concerned, the blindness advocacy groups must bear part of the blame. And exactly what type of employment “opportunity” are you talking about? Fuller Brush salesman?Avon lady? Tupperware party?Multilevel marketing scheme? Give me a break.
Gerald
From: Peter Donahue Sent: Monday, June 11, 2018 3:27 PM Cc: braille@... Subject: Computers to Help People, Take a Different Road
Good afternoon everyone,
While we're glad they're working to make Jaws available on their computers Computers to Help People itself leaves lots to be desired! We know of cases where they sold used computers to blind persons that had hardware that was older than they were told it was. They don't offer their own tech support service, and offer equipment that is deffective and seriously out-of-date.
While it's true unemployment is a serious issue among the blind it's also true that blind persons are presented with business and other opportunities that could give them more than any job could. We know this from having offering our opportunity to blind individuals who either flat turned it down or got involved and didn't remain committed to making it work for them. Our advice to anyone wanting assistive technology or want to upgrade your current technology and to skip the rehab rat race if opportunity comes calling it's legal and credible and you know the person presenting it to you, answer the door, let it in, get on board, and make it happen!
There's no reason why blind persons offered such opportunities should be using junked hardware and seriously out-of-date software. It's your responsibility to develop the needed income streams to keep your equipment and applications current. Failure to do this will be a lack of responsibility on your part! The same also goes for viewing those who have done this successfully as braggers, show-offs etc. Someone who wanted to simply brag about their achievements wouldn't offer to help others do what they accomplished. Such thinking only keeps people broke and forces them to be relegated to using cast-off equipment!
We have done what we're suggesting and will gladly discuss this subject off-list. We received a steamy reminder of our responsibility to have income sorces available for when life happens this past weekend. Late friday evening our air conditioning went out and wasn't repaired until late Saturday evening. Because we took responsibility and positioned ourselves to meet unexpected life challenges we had reserves available from "Yes" decisions we made when opportunity came around. We were able to gtake refuge in a local hotel until our apartment had cooled down to where we could return home.
Mary and I wish to urge everyone to follow our example so you can buy current hardware and software and receive the quality support needed to keep it in ship shape. All the best for a great weekend.
Peter Donahue
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Cristóbal
This is pretty cool. For those of us who already have Jaws, probably not a “big deal”, but still. The more who are able to get access to a quality screen reader, the better. And yes, I am aware of NVDA. I’ve helped a VI low-income friend get a machine from this organization in the past. They do good work. Once you get past the initial purchase of Jaws, if you price out the SMAs, it’s basically a $5.00 monthly subscription anyway.
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moderated
Re: Goldwave
Richard Turner <richardturner42@...>
Chances are, you can do what you want.
Best to try it and see.
Richard
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain
On Jun 11, 2018, at 7:45 PM, Bill White <billwhite92701@...> wrote:
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Re: Goldwave
Bill White <billwhite92701@...>
Hi, Amanda. Do you know if you have Windows 7 or Windows 10?
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Bill White billwhite92701@dslextreme.com
-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Amanda Berkley Sent: Monday, June 11, 2018 6:43 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Goldwave Is there a way to know what version of Windows I have to see if it's a version that will work with Goldwave? On 6/10/18, Richard Turner <richardturner42@outlook.com> wrote: Some versions had blocked recording what you hear over the speakers, which
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moderated
Re: Computers to Help People, Take a Different Road
Sieghard Weitzel <sieghard@...>
Not sure if Peter was the person with whom I had a discussion on another list, if so then Peter and his wife use Go Fund Me to beg for money from well-meaning people. Please note that I am not saying this is so since I can’t remember the name of the person, so, Peter, if you and your wife are gainfully employed or run a small business then forgive my assumption.
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Peter Donahue
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2018 1:39 PM To: main@jfw.groups.io Subject: Re: Computers to Help People, Take a Different Road
Nothing less than new and current systems with superior tech support will do around here.
Peter Donahue
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