Date   

Re: JAWS and Wi-Fi___33-Enabled Amplifier

Randy Barnett <randy@...>
 

Its pricey but the Sonos amp is what you are looking for it can play music from the internet or your PC or phone  has a analog input The PC and phone software is totally accessible. I have The play One, Play 3, Connect and connect amp and they all sound really good and like I said are totally compatible with Jaws and VO and I would think other screen readers as well.

On 5/17/2017 12:25 AM, Marquette, Ed wrote:

All:

I’ll ask my question first and then explain.

Is there such a thing as a WI-FI-enabled Amplifier that acts, for instance, like a Wi-Fi-enabled printer and that has a software-based control panel accessible using JAWS?

 

Now, for the reason for that question.  Several years back, we had an expensive set of wired speakers installed, during a remodeling job, in the ceiling and walls of a very large room in our home.  Apart from the uneasy relationship between JAWS and iTunes and Bluetooth connectivity challenges, I can sometimes play music on my laptop through the above-described amplification system.

The challenge is that Bluetooth is inherently flakey, and the amplifier is 100% inaccessible.  I have to guess to determine whether it is in Bluetooth reception mode.  Plus, it drops the pairing frequently, and pairing is a nightmare.  In addition, for Bluetooth even to work, one must keep the laptop and the amplifier in relatively close proximity to each other.

A Wi-Fi -enabled amplifier would simply appear on the network, like a printer.  An accessible control panel on the laptop would allow the amplifier to be controlled over the Wi-Fi network just the way one controls various functions of a Wi-Fi-enabled printer.

I’ve tried searching the Internet for “accessible amplifiers” and the like, but I’ve come up empty.

That such a device should exist seems obvious, but …

Of course, even if it does, there is a good chance that the control panel would be inaccessible. 

 

I. Edward Marquette

Direct Dial:  816.502.4646

Mobile:  816.812.0088

Google Voice:  408.692.5640

Facsimile:  816.960.0041

Kutak Rock LLP

2300 Main Street, Suite 800

Kansas City, MO 64108

ed.marquette@...

 

 

 

 


This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named recipients above and may contain information
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message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.



Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

James Homuth
 

Agreed. Part of the reason I'm holding off on switching to 18, even though I'm authorized to use it, is exactly as stated right here. I've been on 14 since it came out. I'll likely be on 14 until I move to some later version of Windows, at which point 14 will do me more harm than good. I've played around with 18, but really, nothing's caught my attention.


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave...
Sent: May-17-17 12:37 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

Tim,
 
Very well stated message to VFO. I am a JAWS user since version 3.5. I would much rather have seen improvements in stability over the new features that have been rolled out since version 14. Most of the new features don't impress me, or encourage me to invest time in learning how to best use them. Except for Convenient OCR, all those past features would be gladly surrendered in favor of basic stability and repairs to ongoing access issues.
 
Thank you for your message to VFO.
 
Dave
Oregonian, woodworker, Engineer, Musician, and Pioneer
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Ford
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 00:14
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

All good points. 

 

My proposal, boiled down to its essence, is that FS should develop a new version that is back to basics, is as stable, responsive, and functional as can reasonably be done, for the relatively narrow set of tasks that average JAWS users ever do.  All the focus of adding complicated new features is fine for the power users, and charging them  more seems justifiable.

 

However, the JAWS “Professional” version is nothing more than activating the components necessary for large office systems, citric, etc.  I even learned that the unlocking key is the only difference between the two versions, so FS is selling as a premium pro version a software program that is exactly the same as the less expensive version. 

I understand that screen reader software development involves a relatively small target audience, and the profit factor is a major issue.  That said, a major re-structuring on how screen readers are developed seems now due.

 

  For us basic users, give us one that does what we need, does it well, and does not suddenly go silent or  lock up.  Make it available to all those currently using a properly registered copy of JAWS, regardless of how old a version, charge a reasonable one-time fee, and provide a quality overall JAWS experience.  For the vast majority of us JAWS users, several generations of JAWS has failed to provide that experience. 

 

I would quit using JAWS right now if it were not for the fact that I hate having to learn a new set of commands.  I do only what is or becomes necessary, and I imagine  aa lot of us share that attitude.

 

Tim Ford

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Homuth
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 11:35 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

I guess it depends on whether or not FS/VFO still feels up to supporting older versions of JAWS. I know back when it was Henter Joyce (yeah, I've been around that long), they used to backport potentially major fixes to older JAWS versions. It also depends, I'd imagine, on your definition of an older version. I can see VFO deciding, for instance, okay we'll apply this fix to JAWS 18 and 17, but not 16. And if like me you're still on 14, I can see you being quite reasonably out of luck.


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Feliciano G
Sent: May-17-17 2:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

I agree. On Outlook 2013 with JAWS 17, new email notifications were not read. With JAWS 18, the email notifications were then read. I feel that an upgrade for that is not fair to the end user as it's not a special innovative feature... Sometimes, I wonder...

 

Regards,Feliciano For tech tips and updates, LIKE www.facebook.com/theblindman12v Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v  

On May 16, 2017, at 10:53 PM, Tim Ford <ttford@...> wrote:

Dear FS Support,

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.


In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Tim

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

T 727-803-8600

support@vfo-groupcom

www.vfo-group.com

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of VFO™. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Support,

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178


Re: forwarding a thunderbird question for another Window Eyes user reading mail as non threaded

dennis
 

as do i... you are correct. threaded is the only way. i remember when i started using thunderbird way back jaws had the same problem. at some point jaws got fixed until the thunderbird 5.2 update. i have gotten use to threaded view with no problems accept i can't arrange the collomes view like in list view. other than that its not a problem at all for me.


On 5/17/2017 11:15 AM, Brenda wrote:
I have been told be a very knowledgable person that using threaded view is necessary in Jaws and thatr I'm not the only one with the issue.


and I have latest Jaws and TB with win 7/64.

Brenda




On 5/17/2017 10:59 AM, Maria Campbell wrote:
If this person doesn't have JAWS 18 or an earlier version of TB, this is a problem.


lucky1inct@...
Faithfulness does not begin with large tasks-if it is not present in small things, it does not exist at all.

On 5/16/2017 9:32 PM, Dennis L wrote:

Hello List,

I'm trying to transition to Jaws starting with emailing which I am getting a lot of experience on lately.

I find with Jaws I have to view messages as threaded which I don't

like.  Is there a way to read messages as unthreaded.  Jaws doesn't seem

to read the titles unless threaded. Hoping there is a setting to be

changed.








.



Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

Dave...
 

Tim,
 
Very well stated message to VFO. I am a JAWS user since version 3.5. I would much rather have seen improvements in stability over the new features that have been rolled out since version 14. Most of the new features don't impress me, or encourage me to invest time in learning how to best use them. Except for Convenient OCR, all those past features would be gladly surrendered in favor of basic stability and repairs to ongoing access issues.
 
Thank you for your message to VFO.
 
Dave
Oregonian, woodworker, Engineer, Musician, and Pioneer
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Ford
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 00:14
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

All good points. 

 

My proposal, boiled down to its essence, is that FS should develop a new version that is back to basics, is as stable, responsive, and functional as can reasonably be done, for the relatively narrow set of tasks that average JAWS users ever do.  All the focus of adding complicated new features is fine for the power users, and charging them  more seems justifiable.

 

However, the JAWS “Professional” version is nothing more than activating the components necessary for large office systems, citric, etc.  I even learned that the unlocking key is the only difference between the two versions, so FS is selling as a premium pro version a software program that is exactly the same as the less expensive version. 

I understand that screen reader software development involves a relatively small target audience, and the profit factor is a major issue.  That said, a major re-structuring on how screen readers are developed seems now due.

 

  For us basic users, give us one that does what we need, does it well, and does not suddenly go silent or  lock up.  Make it available to all those currently using a properly registered copy of JAWS, regardless of how old a version, charge a reasonable one-time fee, and provide a quality overall JAWS experience.  For the vast majority of us JAWS users, several generations of JAWS has failed to provide that experience. 

 

I would quit using JAWS right now if it were not for the fact that I hate having to learn a new set of commands.  I do only what is or becomes necessary, and I imagine  aa lot of us share that attitude.

 

Tim Ford

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Homuth
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 11:35 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

I guess it depends on whether or not FS/VFO still feels up to supporting older versions of JAWS. I know back when it was Henter Joyce (yeah, I've been around that long), they used to backport potentially major fixes to older JAWS versions. It also depends, I'd imagine, on your definition of an older version. I can see VFO deciding, for instance, okay we'll apply this fix to JAWS 18 and 17, but not 16. And if like me you're still on 14, I can see you being quite reasonably out of luck.


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Feliciano G
Sent: May-17-17 2:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

I agree. On Outlook 2013 with JAWS 17, new email notifications were not read. With JAWS 18, the email notifications were then read. I feel that an upgrade for that is not fair to the end user as it's not a special innovative feature... Sometimes, I wonder...

 

Regards,Feliciano For tech tips and updates, LIKE www.facebook.com/theblindman12v Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v  

On May 16, 2017, at 10:53 PM, Tim Ford <ttford@...> wrote:

Dear FS Support,

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.


In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Tim

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

T 727-803-8600

support@vfo-groupcom

www.vfo-group.com

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of VFO™. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Support,

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178


Re: forwarding a thunderbird question for another Window Eyes user reading mail as non threaded

Randy Barnett <randy@...>
 

Just downloading the installer from VFO wont do it. You have to check for updates within Jaws. Bring up jaws then go to help then click check for updates. I had this happen just last week, I had to do a reinstall of windows and after reinstalling jaws the TB issue returned until I ran the update utility after it updated Jaws the problem was fixed...

On 5/16/2017 10:09 PM, Brenda wrote:
Hi List,

I do have the latest version of Jaws, I just checked, and if I don't use the threaded view jaws does not reat the message list.


Using windows 7/64 with latest Jaws and TB.


Is there another setting I'm missing?


Thanks for any help.

Brenda


On 5/16/2017 11:24 PM, Randy Barnett wrote:
This is a bug in the new version of TB. you have to have the latest version of jaws to fix it. Or run an older version of TB and turn off updates.
On 5/16/2017 6:32 PM, Dennis L wrote:

Hello List,

I'm trying to transition to Jaws starting with emailing which I am getting a lot of experience on lately.

I find with Jaws I have to view messages as threaded which I don't

like. Is there a way to read messages as unthreaded. Jaws doesn't seem

to read the titles unless threaded. Hoping there is a setting to be

changed.




Re: forwarding a thunderbird question for another Window Eyes user reading mail as non threaded

Brenda <bjnite@...>
 

I have been told be a very knowledgable person that using threaded view is necessary in Jaws and thatr I'm not the only one with the issue.


and I have latest Jaws and TB with win 7/64.

Brenda

On 5/17/2017 10:59 AM, Maria Campbell wrote:
If this person doesn't have JAWS 18 or an earlier version of TB, this is a problem.


lucky1inct@gmail.com
Faithfulness does not begin with large tasks-if it is not present in small things, it does not exist at all.

On 5/16/2017 9:32 PM, Dennis L wrote:

Hello List,

I'm trying to transition to Jaws starting with emailing which I am getting a lot of experience on lately.

I find with Jaws I have to view messages as threaded which I don't

like. Is there a way to read messages as unthreaded. Jaws doesn't seem

to read the titles unless threaded. Hoping there is a setting to be

changed.


Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

Hi Mich,

 

That is the case with every piece of software that has ever been made, the average user often only uses 10% or maybe a quarter of the available features and capabilities.

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mich Verrier
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 3:57 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

hi I tend to agree with this. also the avrige user of jaws doesn’t use most if not all of the features that jaws has to offer. from Mich.

 

From: James Homuth

Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 3:25 AM

Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

To be fair, Microsoft has done exactly the same thing with windows for ages. You install Windows 7 Ultimate from the exact same media as you install Windows 7 home from. The difference is all in the product key. Give it a different product key, the installer turns on the features that key unlocks. This is why you don't need to wipe your system if you're upgrading from home to pro or ultimate. windows 10 very probably works in exactly the same way. I've never been a fan of JFW's licensing system, particularly since they've gotten away from the ability to give back authorization keys you're not using (that's another rant for another thread), but it could always be a lot worse. You pay for a new major version of windows when it comes out, but those usually only come out every couple years - unless MS puts out a complete flop, but come on that never happens. JFW releases a major version of all its software at least once per year, and I get the impression - again, like Microsoft, drops support for previous versions shortly after. Imagine having to pay JFW prices annually?

 

Before someone jumps on me, I'm not saying this is the right way to do it. we've all given FS/HJ/VFO enough money over the years we've probably earned a long-term support license. HJ had years to do it and didn't. FS had years to do it and didn't. given recent and not-so-recent history, I don't see VFO doing it. I'd love to be wrong, but until I am, I'll just be thankful they're not trying to completely immitate Microsoft. In the meantime, I'm keeping an eye on the current state of Narrator.

 


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim Ford
Sent: May-17-17 3:14 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

All good points. 

 

My proposal, boiled down to its essence, is that FS should develop a new version that is back to basics, is as stable, responsive, and functional as can reasonably be done, for the relatively narrow set of tasks that average JAWS users ever do.  All the focus of adding complicated new features is fine for the power users, and charging them  more seems justifiable.

 

However, the JAWS “Professional” version is nothing more than activating the components necessary for large office systems, citric, etc.  I even learned that the unlocking key is the only difference between the two versions, so FS is selling as a premium pro version a software program that is exactly the same as the less expensive version. 

I understand that screen reader software development involves a relatively small target audience, and the profit factor is a major issue.  That said, a major re-structuring on how screen readers are developed seems now due.

 

  For us basic users, give us one that does what we need, does it well, and does not suddenly go silent or  lock up.  Make it available to all those currently using a properly registered copy of JAWS, regardless of how old a version, charge a reasonable one-time fee, and provide a quality overall JAWS experience.  For the vast majority of us JAWS users, several generations of JAWS has failed to provide that experience. 

 

I would quit using JAWS right now if it were not for the fact that I hate having to learn a new set of commands.  I do only what is or becomes necessary, and I imagine  aa lot of us share that attitude.

 

Tim Ford

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Homuth
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 11:35 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

I guess it depends on whether or not FS/VFO still feels up to supporting older versions of JAWS. I know back when it was Henter Joyce (yeah, I've been around that long), they used to backport potentially major fixes to older JAWS versions. It also depends, I'd imagine, on your definition of an older version. I can see VFO deciding, for instance, okay we'll apply this fix to JAWS 18 and 17, but not 16. And if like me you're still on 14, I can see you being quite reasonably out of luck.


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Feliciano G
Sent: May-17-17 2:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

I agree. On Outlook 2013 with JAWS 17, new email notifications were not read. With JAWS 18, the email notifications were then read. I feel that an upgrade for that is not fair to the end user as it's not a special innovative feature... Sometimes, I wonder...

 

Regards,Feliciano For tech tips and updates, LIKE www.facebook.com/theblindman12v Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v 

On May 16, 2017, at 10:53 PM, Tim Ford <ttford@...> wrote:

Dear FS Support,

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.

In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office. They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Tim

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

T 727-803-8600

support@...

www.vfo-group.com

VFO logo, innovating in accessibilityour brands, freedom scientific andoptelec

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of VFO™. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Support,

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178


Re: question for a friend.

 

Ken,

         I don't have Magic on my machine but have worked with it.  Has she checked out the "Set screen echo" command, INSERT+S to see if there might be something there that might work?

        She could also toggle speech off entirely for the duration of the game if that is something that will work for her.  Using MAGicKey+F3 will toggle between full speech or speech on demand and if the latter is selected speech is, for all practical intents and purposes, off unless you intentionally trigger it for a specific purpose.
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


Re: anything new on the elbraille?

 

I can’t answer all your questions, but according to a demo at the CSUN about Jaws with Edge we should see some official Edge support still in Jaws version 18. Usually the Jaws 19 demo should come out at the beginning of September and they will then work towards a late October release so I would expect to see a Jaws update in the next 2 or so months which will add initial Edge support.

Having said this, I am not super concerned with this as there are other good browser alternatives, with the exception of a couple of issues I think Chrome is currently my favourite and it works great with Jaws.

As for FS Cast, the last one was in late April, you can always go to www.FreedomScientific.com/fscast and check there. I have an iPhone and subscribe to FS Cast using the Podcast app so I turn off these notifications in Jaws since I find it a much better experience to consume Podcasts with my iPhone.

 

Regards,

Sieghard

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of ken lawrence via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 6:33 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: anything new on the elbraille?

 

Hi JFW listers ken with a question. the notification to get the FS casts is checked in my jaws, but haven’t seen the button notifying me when a new one is made. not sure if it’s because I only use jaws as demo but haven’t seen it, so will ask this here. first of all anything new on the forth coming elbraille notetaker, and on a related note to that when I correct the issue with my computer that prevents me from installing the windows 10 creaters update, wil I notice a  differents in how jaws handles both the windows 10 mail app, in the edge browser and groove music apps, or will that not happen until the next major update to either jaws or windows 10?  is that why the elbraille hasn’t come out yet?  am a huge tech geek and am in our state technology devision of NFB here in jersey and am in a computer talk club here in central jersey, and would love to take something to the meetings. 


Re: MS Word 2010

 

Laura,

          The extended support end date for the Microsoft Office 2010 Service Pack 2 (which all of us should have by now if we have Office 2010, or will have not long after loading a fresh copy) is October 13, 2020.   (See:  https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/search/13615)

           End of support for Office 2010 should have little to nothing to do with whether a screen reader will work with it so long as said screen reader will work under "the old Windows paradigm" meaning if it's compatible with Windows 7 or earlier.

           It is highly unlikely that screen reader support for Windows 7 will end before its sundown date in 2020 and, given the embedded base of Windows 7 and that many will still be using it, it may go after that.  I doubt that the code that supports "the old pre-universal-apps" Windows application programs (termed Desktop Apps under Windows 10) is going to go away for a very, very long time because those programs are not going away any time soon and there are still many that are under development that show no signs of rushing to become an universal app anytime soon.

--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


question for a friend.

ken lawrence
 

Hi jaws list ken here. a question for you not sure if it’s off topic for this list but magic is similar to jaws. so here goes. one of the hosts of a game on out of sight has a problem where when she is on the chat client she hears progress bars as she runs the audio of games. she’s licked the issue with NVDA but not magic. apparently it’s not verbosity settings. is there a togggle that will turn that off in magic or jaws so she can run the mississippi game without that distraction?                 


Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

Just for a tiny bit of perspective from someone who was once "on the other side" as a software developer it is unrealistic to expect any software maker to support a given version of something "in perpetuity."  Now, mind you, that's not to say that say, three or four of the most recent versions of a piece of software such as JAWS should not be simultaneously maintained, as I believe they should.  As many have pointed out, they're not seeking the new "bells and whistles" that are perpetually being added not only to JAWS, but to almost any piece of software you can name that's under active maintenance.   Freedom Scientific (now VFO) has historically been using "upgrade to the new version" as their fix for everything for as long as I've been tutoring JAWS.  What's worse, and I've experienced it more than once, is that there have been instances where the new version breaks existing functionality in specific circumstances and how that escaped testing is beyond me.

The long and the sort of it is that there are now very serious and very good competitors to JAWS that are available at little or no cost, depending on whether they ship with the OS you're using or not.  If I had my druthers the state agency for which I do most of my tutoring would have transitioned to one of those several years ago, but getting any bureaucracy to change is a long, slow proposition.  At the individual level it need not be and for certain alternatives the learning curve is not particularly steep.
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.


Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

Mich Verrier
 

hi I tend to agree with this. also the avrige user of jaws doesn’t use most if not all of the features that jaws has to offer. from Mich.
 

From: James Homuth
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 3:25 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.
 
To be fair, Microsoft has done exactly the same thing with windows for ages. You install Windows 7 Ultimate from the exact same media as you install Windows 7 home from. The difference is all in the product key. Give it a different product key, the installer turns on the features that key unlocks. This is why you don't need to wipe your system if you're upgrading from home to pro or ultimate. windows 10 very probably works in exactly the same way. I've never been a fan of JFW's licensing system, particularly since they've gotten away from the ability to give back authorization keys you're not using (that's another rant for another thread), but it could always be a lot worse. You pay for a new major version of windows when it comes out, but those usually only come out every couple years - unless MS puts out a complete flop, but come on that never happens. JFW releases a major version of all its software at least once per year, and I get the impression - again, like Microsoft, drops support for previous versions shortly after. Imagine having to pay JFW prices annually?
 
Before someone jumps on me, I'm not saying this is the right way to do it. we've all given FS/HJ/VFO enough money over the years we've probably earned a long-term support license. HJ had years to do it and didn't. FS had years to do it and didn't. given recent and not-so-recent history, I don't see VFO doing it. I'd love to be wrong, but until I am, I'll just be thankful they're not trying to completely immitate Microsoft. In the meantime, I'm keeping an eye on the current state of Narrator.


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim Ford
Sent: May-17-17 3:14 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

All good points. 

 

My proposal, boiled down to its essence, is that FS should develop a new version that is back to basics, is as stable, responsive, and functional as can reasonably be done, for the relatively narrow set of tasks that average JAWS users ever do.  All the focus of adding complicated new features is fine for the power users, and charging them  more seems justifiable.

 

However, the JAWS “Professional” version is nothing more than activating the components necessary for large office systems, citric, etc.  I even learned that the unlocking key is the only difference between the two versions, so FS is selling as a premium pro version a software program that is exactly the same as the less expensive version. 

I understand that screen reader software development involves a relatively small target audience, and the profit factor is a major issue.  That said, a major re-structuring on how screen readers are developed seems now due.

 

  For us basic users, give us one that does what we need, does it well, and does not suddenly go silent or  lock up.  Make it available to all those currently using a properly registered copy of JAWS, regardless of how old a version, charge a reasonable one-time fee, and provide a quality overall JAWS experience.  For the vast majority of us JAWS users, several generations of JAWS has failed to provide that experience. 

 

I would quit using JAWS right now if it were not for the fact that I hate having to learn a new set of commands.  I do only what is or becomes necessary, and I imagine  aa lot of us share that attitude.

 

Tim Ford

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Homuth
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 11:35 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

I guess it depends on whether or not FS/VFO still feels up to supporting older versions of JAWS. I know back when it was Henter Joyce (yeah, I've been around that long), they used to backport potentially major fixes to older JAWS versions. It also depends, I'd imagine, on your definition of an older version. I can see VFO deciding, for instance, okay we'll apply this fix to JAWS 18 and 17, but not 16. And if like me you're still on 14, I can see you being quite reasonably out of luck.


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Feliciano G
Sent: May-17-17 2:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

I agree. On Outlook 2013 with JAWS 17, new email notifications were not read. With JAWS 18, the email notifications were then read. I feel that an upgrade for that is not fair to the end user as it's not a special innovative feature... Sometimes, I wonder...

 

Regards,Feliciano For tech tips and updates, LIKE www.facebook.com/theblindman12v Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v 

On May 16, 2017, at 10:53 PM, Tim Ford <ttford@...> wrote:

Dear FS Support,

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.


In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office. They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Tim

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

T 727-803-8600

support@...

www.vfo-group.com

VFO logo, innovating in accessibilityour brands, freedom scientific andoptelec

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of VFO™. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Support,

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178


Re: saying graphic as i arrow up and down a file list

Bill White <billwhite92701@...>
 

Yes, this happens for me if I open a .rar file in 7-zip.

Bill White
Billwhite92701@dslextreme.com

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jed Barton
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 1:36 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: saying graphic as i arrow up and down a file list

Hey guys,
Curious if anyone has seen this, not sure what it is. In 1 of my programs, i am going to open a file. Si i go to file open, and find the location. As i'm arrowing up and down my file list, before every file, it says sever graphics, something like graphic 244, graphic 212, as an example. It's really annoying, any ideas what it could be?

Thanks,
Jed


Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

Tom Behler
 

I agree with what has been said here.

 

I think it reflects how so many of us feel at the current time.

 

Dr.  Tom Behler from Michigan

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Maria Campbell
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 11:18 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

Good job.

 

lucky1inct@...
Faithfulness does not begin with large tasks-if it is not present in small things, it does not exist at all.

On 5/17/2017 1:53 AM, Tim Ford wrote:

Dear FS Support,

 

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

 

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

 

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

 

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

 

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.

In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office. They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

 

 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

 

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

 

 

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

 

 

 

Dear Tim

 

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

 

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

 

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

 

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

 

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

 

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

 

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

T 727-803-8600

support@...

www.vfo-group.com

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of VFO™. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

 

From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

 

Dear Support,

 

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

 

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

 

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178

 

 


Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

Maria Campbell
 

Good job.


lucky1inct@...
Faithfulness does not begin with large tasks-if it is not present in small things, it does not exist at all.
On 5/17/2017 1:53 AM, Tim Ford wrote:

Dear FS Support,

 

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

 

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

 

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

 

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

 

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.

In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office. They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

 

 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

 

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

 

 

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

 

 

 

Dear Tim

 

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

 

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

 

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

 

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

 

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

 

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

 

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

T 727-803-8600

support@...

www.vfo-group.com

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of VFO™. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

 

From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

 

Dear Support,

 

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

 

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

 

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178

 



Re: MS Word 2010

Laura Richardson
 

Getting Office 365 is not an option for me in this situation.  I just really need to make sure the combination of Windows 10, Jaws 18 and MS Word 2010 will work well together and that MS Word 2010 will continue to be supported …… Thanks for your input.

 

Laura

 

   

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of george b
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 9:45 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: MS Word 2010

 

Hello,

 

I would get office 365 and pay the yearly fee.  Then you also install the latest office sueite 2016 software to your device.

 

This way you have the latest and it is alwaysed updated for free with your 365 account as long as you pay the yearly amount.

 

I use it and it is great

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Laura Richardson
Sent: May 17, 2017 7:01
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: MS Word 2010

 

Good morning,

 

Currently I work from home using Windows 7, Jaws 15 and MS Word 2010 on a four year old laptop that is dying (ugh).  I’m supposed to be receiving a new laptop in the near future with Windows 10 Pro and Jaws 18 with the plan of installing MS word 2010 because I already have that version.  I’ve been told this combination will work but I’ve recently heard that MS Word 2010 will no longer be supported in the near future.  Since this will be a work computer, not just personal, it is crucial that I have a combination that works well with Jaws and will not be at risk of nonsupport in the near future.

 

Advice please? …… Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Laura

 

 


a strange miranda ng problem

Jed Barton
 

Hey guys,

As usual there is always an issue with miranda. I'm having something
happen that i've never seen before. When i open up a chat, and press
enter on the name of someone i wanna talk to, it keeps saying their
name over and over again while i'm in the chat window. It just keeps
repeating it voer and over again. Any ideas?


Re: forwarding a thunderbird question for another Window Eyes user reading mail as non threaded

Maria Campbell
 

If this person doesn't have JAWS 18 or an earlier version of TB, this is a problem.


lucky1inct@...
Faithfulness does not begin with large tasks-if it is not present in small things, it does not exist at all.
On 5/16/2017 9:32 PM, Dennis L wrote:

Hello List,

 

 

I'm trying to transition to Jaws starting with emailing which I am getting a lot of experience on lately.

 

 

I find with Jaws I have to view messages as threaded which I don't

like.  Is there a way to read messages as unthreaded.  Jaws doesn't seem

to read the titles unless threaded.  Hoping there is a setting to be

changed.



Re: saying graphic as i arrow up and down a file list

Jed Barton
 

Sadly, it's still doing it. When i go to open a file up in the
program i am using, it's the typical file open dialog. As i'm
arrowing up and down the files, it says graphic. Any ideas? It'll
say things like graphic 441, graphic 221, etc.

On 5/17/17, Tom Lange <lange85@gmail.com> wrote:
Yep, that'll do it, but to simplify things a little, just press insert+v to
get straight to settings center, and in the search box type the word
"graphics". Give it a couple of seconds to populate the search results, then
arrow down to the graphics option. press the space bar until Jaws says
"labeled", then press Enter and you're in business.

Sent from my iPhone 7

On May 17, 2017, at 3:36 AM, James Bentley <bentleyj1952@att.net> wrote:

Hello Jed,

I recommend that you change how Jaws reads graphics. Try this:

Run Jaws Manager with Insert F2.

Hit the letter S until you hear settings center and hit enter.

Down arrow until you hear Web / HTML / PDFs, and right arrow to open.

Hit the letter g until you hear graphics and labels, and right arrow to
open.

Hit the letter G until you hear graphics verbosity.

Use the space bar to toggle in between the different options. Choose
labeled graphics.

Tab to the apply button and hit enter. Then, tab around to the OK button
and hit enter. You are done.

Hope this helps,

James B

From: Jed Barton
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 3:35 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: saying graphic as i arrow up and down a file list

Hey guys,
Curious if anyone has seen this, not sure what it is. In 1 of my
programs, i am going to open a file. Si i go to file open, and find
the location. As i'm arrowing up and down my file list, before every
file, it says sever graphics, something like graphic 244, graphic 212,
as an example. It's really annoying, any ideas what it could be?

Thanks,
Jed