Date   

Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

Tim Ford
 

All good points. 

 

My proposal, boiled down to its essence, is that FS should develop a new version that is back to basics, is as stable, responsive, and functional as can reasonably be done, for the relatively narrow set of tasks that average JAWS users ever do.  All the focus of adding complicated new features is fine for the power users, and charging them  more seems justifiable.

 

However, the JAWS “Professional” version is nothing more than activating the components necessary for large office systems, citric, etc.  I even learned that the unlocking key is the only difference between the two versions, so FS is selling as a premium pro version a software program that is exactly the same as the less expensive version. 

I understand that screen reader software development involves a relatively small target audience, and the profit factor is a major issue.  That said, a major re-structuring on how screen readers are developed seems now due.

 

  For us basic users, give us one that does what we need, does it well, and does not suddenly go silent or  lock up.  Make it available to all those currently using a properly registered copy of JAWS, regardless of how old a version, charge a reasonable one-time fee, and provide a quality overall JAWS experience.  For the vast majority of us JAWS users, several generations of JAWS has failed to provide that experience. 

 

I would quit using JAWS right now if it were not for the fact that I hate having to learn a new set of commands.  I do only what is or becomes necessary, and I imagine  aa lot of us share that attitude.

 

Tim Ford

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Homuth
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 11:35 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

 

I guess it depends on whether or not FS/VFO still feels up to supporting older versions of JAWS. I know back when it was Henter Joyce (yeah, I've been around that long), they used to backport potentially major fixes to older JAWS versions. It also depends, I'd imagine, on your definition of an older version. I can see VFO deciding, for instance, okay we'll apply this fix to JAWS 18 and 17, but not 16. And if like me you're still on 14, I can see you being quite reasonably out of luck.


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Feliciano G
Sent: May-17-17 2:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

I agree. On Outlook 2013 with JAWS 17, new email notifications were not read. With JAWS 18, the email notifications were then read. I feel that an upgrade for that is not fair to the end user as it's not a special innovative feature... Sometimes, I wonder...

 

Regards,Feliciano For tech tips and updates, LIKE www.facebook.com/theblindman12v Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v  

On May 16, 2017, at 10:53 PM, Tim Ford <ttford@...> wrote:

Dear FS Support,

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.


In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office. They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Tim

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

T 727-803-8600

support@...

www.vfo-group.com

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of VFO™. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Support,

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178


Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

James Homuth
 

I guess it depends on whether or not FS/VFO still feels up to supporting older versions of JAWS. I know back when it was Henter Joyce (yeah, I've been around that long), they used to backport potentially major fixes to older JAWS versions. It also depends, I'd imagine, on your definition of an older version. I can see VFO deciding, for instance, okay we'll apply this fix to JAWS 18 and 17, but not 16. And if like me you're still on 14, I can see you being quite reasonably out of luck.


From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Feliciano G
Sent: May-17-17 2:31 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

I agree. On Outlook 2013 with JAWS 17, new email notifications were not read. With JAWS 18, the email notifications were then read. I feel that an upgrade for that is not fair to the end user as it's not a special innovative feature... Sometimes, I wonder...

Regards,Feliciano For tech tips and updates, LIKE www.facebook.com/theblindman12v Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v  
On May 16, 2017, at 10:53 PM, Tim Ford <ttford@...> wrote:

Dear FS Support,

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.

In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office. They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Tim

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

T 727-803-8600

support@...

www.vfo-group.com

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of VFO™. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

Dear Support,

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178


Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

Feliciano G
 

I agree. On Outlook 2013 with JAWS 17, new email notifications were not read. With JAWS 18, the email notifications were then read. I feel that an upgrade for that is not fair to the end user as it's not a special innovative feature... Sometimes, I wonder...

Regards,Feliciano For tech tips and updates, LIKE www.facebook.com/theblindman12v Follow www.twitter.com/theblindman12v  

On May 16, 2017, at 10:53 PM, Tim Ford <ttford@...> wrote:

Dear FS Support,

 

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

 

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

 

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

 

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

 

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.

In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office. They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

 

 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

 

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

 

 

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

 

 

 

Dear Tim

 

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

 

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

 

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

 

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

 

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

 

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

 

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

T 727-803-8600

support@...

www.vfo-group.com

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of VFO™. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

 

From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

 

Dear Support,

 

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

 

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

 

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178

 


Re: Questions concerning Thunderbird

Dennis L <dennisl1982@...>
 

Could someone write a script that allows us to easily choose how this is done?

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Bentley
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 11:12 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Questions concerning Thunderbird

 

Glad to get your opinion.  I have a couple people that I can ask.

I want to play with TB for a week or so to find out if it screws up like WLM often does.  If not, I'm changing email clients.

Thanks for everything.

James B

On 5/16/2017 9:17 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 06:59 pm, James Bentley wrote:

What I am hoping for is for the message headers to read the same way that they did in WLM.

 P.S.:  If you're not against asking for sighted help on principle it is faster, much faster, to do the rearranging of the order via mouse-driven drag and drop and the addition of columns via right-clicking on the headings row and selecting/deselecting the columns you'd like to have displayed.

The logistics of doing this with a screen reader is just far more time consuming, so if you have a willing assistant and speed is of the essence then I'd definitely go that route.
--
Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

 


Re: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

Mike B. <mb69mach1@...>
 

Hi Tim,
 
Right on!  You  tell them!  I get damn tired of their tech support people telling me that I should run J18 when I prefer J16, & when I tell them, since I've paid for all their damn versions, & I'll run the whatever the hell version that works best for me, & since I'm calling about the version I'm running, & not wanting to run what version they want me to run, why the hell can't you help with the version I'm running instead of claiming that problem was fixed in a newer version, when it wasn't!  LOL  LOL 
Take care.
Mike
Sent from my, iBarstool.

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Ford
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 10:53 PM
Subject: The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

Dear FS Support,

 

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

 

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

 

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

 

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

 

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.

In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office. They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

 

 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

 

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

 

 

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

 

 

 

Dear Tim

 

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

 

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

 

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

 

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

 

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

 

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

 

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

T 727-803-8600

support@...

www.vfo-group.com

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of VFO™. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

 

From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

 

Dear Support,

 

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

 

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

 

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178

 


The answer is not to tell us that buying a new version of JAWS is the proper solution.

Tim Ford
 

Dear FS Support,

 

Before I begin, please note that I have also posted this email to a JAWS users list since the broader issue I raise applies to the JAWS community as a whole.

 

This email is a bit long, but I feel the points made below are important, enough that your top executive team should review the issues involved, to decide which priorities are most important.

 

Normally, I would have been happy to report to you that I had figured out a solution to a JAWS problem I previously reported to you, so that the information would be available to others.  However, after reading your email below, I did a bit of further testing of that File Explorer problem you say is fixed in version 18.  (My plan was to try NVDA.)  However, I decided to first give JAWS one more try, in part to refresh my memory on the matter.  With JAWS 17, I got to the trouble point, where JAWS was finding only the first of the usual 3 buttons, retry, skip, cancel.  (The problem is explained below.)  However, as I was on the retry button, something in the back of my mind caused me to try the right arrow key, instead of the usual tab key.  There were the 2 missing buttons! 

 

Windows 10 seems to make regular use of the arrow keys in situations where a tab used to be the process of navigating to all the buttons.  (This is hard on us JAWS users who, like myself, have for some 25 years have the tab key drilled into us as being a primary navigation step for accessing Windows operating system  components such as File Explorer.  (I will hopefully remember in the future to try the arrow if the tab does not do what it used to do, but I digress.) 

 

It concerns me, and should concern you, that you did not know this, apparently concluding that JAWS Version  17 was, and was to remain, broken in regard to this File Explorer common function.  Instead, you just steered me to a new version, with no mention of the dollar cost involved.  Since my email included my JAWS serial number, you could have taken the few seconds it would take to run my number and find out whether my existing paid license covered Version 18; it does not.

 

My JAWS license extends only to Version 17, and I have the latest of that.  Mentioning only a solution that involves having to pay for yet another upgrade is something your company should contemplate as the financial burden it is.  For an individual, JAWS is far and away the most expensive license of anything we have, and the impact is magnified by having to pay for expensive new versions.  I do not need JAWS 18; there is nothing in version 18 I would have found useful!

 

A basic issue like this one, broken buttons that had worked fine for all these years, qualifies in my mind as being something you would in good conscious want to fix for customers, no extra charge, and not just for customers who desire the latest.  Goodness, you are going to take a company position that unless the customer pays for the absolute newest version, they cannot expect any solutions to basic flaws?  Version 17 is now old and obsolete and not worthy of fixing basic bugs?  Sounds like the approach Microsoft is currently being roasted over with the world wide ransomware. 

 

Here is my overall point/recommendation.  Based upon seeing thousands of emails complaining about JAWS 18, I believe the best long-term corporate policy is for you to stop adding new features, which invariably end up breaking something else, and come up with a new and extremely stable and functional version.  I would pay a modestly reasonable  fee for that, and I believe others would as well. 

 

You could sell the idea as a solution/response to the bad example Microsoft has set in its withholding of the patch that would have stop that huge ransomware attack that happened this week.  Show how software customers should be treated!  Stand up and admit that all the advances came at the expense of stability of the basic JAWS product.

In closing, I also want to point out that you have not resolved my previously-reported issue where Excel 2010 does not work with JAWS and Windows 10; JAWS is completely silent and unable to read the contents of a cell; only the menus work.  I contacted Microsoft’s Accessibility Office. They recommended and installed/configured NVDA on my computer, as a work-around until JAWS was fixed.  They remotely installed and set up NVDA for me, and it reads those Excel cells just fine. 

 

 

Thank you for considering my points.  I appreciate that my suggestions involve what would be a radical notion in the computer software industry, but as demonstrated by the evidence of Microsoft’s culpability, a new approach that would serve as a leading example, seems timely.

 

Sincerely,

Tim Ford

 

 

From: VFO Technical Support [mailto:support@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:55 PM
To: ttford@...
Subject: re: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

 

 

 

Dear Tim

 

Thank you for contacting VFO technical support.

 

It appear this issue is addressed in the JAWS® screen reading software version 18.0 release. I recommend downloading the latest release of the JAWS 18.0 software from the link below and see if the issue persist.

 

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  64-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x64.exe

 

•  JAWS 18.0.2740  32-bit English  - April 2017

http://jaws18.vfo.digital/27403299B4/J18.0.2740enu-x86.exe

 

Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

 

Regards,

[name removed by Tim Ford for privacy of the individual support employee who sent this note.]

 

VFO™ | Technical Support Specialist

11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

T 727-803-8600

support@...

www.vfo-group.com

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of VFO™. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

 

From: Tim Ford [mailto:ttford@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:38 AM
To: VFO Technical Support <support@...>
Subject: Windows Explorer, skip button not recognized by JAWS.

 

Dear Support,

 

I am running the latest version of Windows 10, Creator edition, and the latest JAWS 17 update.

 

When in Windows explorer, if I select one or more files, then try either delete or shift delete, the skip button is not available.  In folders such as \windows\prefetch, there are often 1-3 files to which this pertains.  I try JAWS in review mode, but the button is not spoken.  I tried the OCR approach by pressing the layered command to read the screen, and although JAWS did say it completed the OCR, the skip button is visible only when I arrow up and down.  But I cannot arrow left or right, in either JAWS review or OCR curser mode, to try and press the button.  The above are obviously just my playing around, and the button should be visible to JAWS in routine operation.  Please advise.

 

Tim Ford

JAWS #18178

 


Re: forwarding a thunderbird question for another Window Eyes user reading mail as non threaded

Brenda <bjnite@...>
 

Hi List,

I do have the latest version of Jaws, I just checked, and if I don't use the threaded view jaws does not reat the message list.


Using windows 7/64 with latest Jaws and TB.


Is there another setting I'm missing?


Thanks for any help.

Brenda

On 5/16/2017 11:24 PM, Randy Barnett wrote:
This is a bug in the new version of TB. you have to have the latest version of jaws to fix it. Or run an older version of TB and turn off updates.
On 5/16/2017 6:32 PM, Dennis L wrote:

Hello List,

I'm trying to transition to Jaws starting with emailing which I am getting a lot of experience on lately.

I find with Jaws I have to view messages as threaded which I don't

like. Is there a way to read messages as unthreaded. Jaws doesn't seem

to read the titles unless threaded. Hoping there is a setting to be

changed.



Re: Mouse Echo Layer

David Moore
 

Hi,

Mouse echo started in JAWS 18.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Bill White
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:23 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer

 

No, I think it has been in JAWS since at least JAWS 16.

Bill White billwhite92701@...

----- Original Message -----

From: "Mario" <mrb620@...>

To: <main@jfw.groups.io>

Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 5:15 PM

Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer

 

 

> Bill, the mouse Echo command is only for JAWS 18, right?

> -------- Original Message --------

> From: Bill White [mailto:billwhite92701@...]

> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 3:55 PM EST

> To: main@jfw.groups.io

> Subject: Mouse Echo Layer

> Hi again, Sieghard. One other item I will mention is that under the JAWS

> context menu, which I reach by using the keystroke INSERT plus the

> letter J, then open basic settings. The first setting,

> Tutor messages, announce menu and control help radio button checked. If

> you use one of the other settings in this dialogue, you will not get all

> the control announcements. This might be the reason for INSERT plus

> SPACE BAR, E not echoing correctly.

> Bill White

> Billwhite92701@...

> From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of

> Sieghard Weitzel

> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 10:18 AM

> To: main@jfw.groups.io

> Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer

> Hi Bill and Joseph,

> I am using Jaws 18.0.2740 which is the latest built.

> When I press Jaws Key+Spacebar I hear the little tone it makes, then

> when I press “e” Jaws simply echos “e”. As I said, if I do “O” it does

> correctly say OCR.

> I am using intermediate verbocity, but I did consider this already and

> changed it to beginner and it makes no difference.

> Not sure why it doesn’t properly say what the keystroke is, but as I

> said, it’s not a big deal and at this point it’s not worth it for me to

> spend more time trying to figure it out especially since pressing any

> other key in the sequence does what it is supposed to do and the action

> is properly spoken, e.g. on, off, characters, words, lines.

> .

> Regards,

> Sieghard

> From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph

> Lee

> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 9:52 AM

> To: main@jfw.groups.io

> Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer

> Hi,

> Or perhaps, what verbosity level are you using?

> Cheers,

> Joseph

> From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill

> White

> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 9:44 AM

> To: main@jfw.groups.io

> Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer

> Which version of JAWS are you running when you encounter this behavior

> of JAWS not saying

> “Mouse Echo Layer?”

> Bill White

> Billwhite92701@...

> From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of

> Sieghard Weitzel

> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 9:13 AM

> To: main@jfw.groups.io

> Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer

> Thanks Bill, if I follow the Jaws Key+Spacebar and E with one of the

> letters you mention Jaws will say on, off, character, word or line, it

> just does not say the initial “Mouse Echo Layer”, not sure why that is

> because when I do the layered command for OCR it will say “OCR” before I

> press any of the secondary commands like d for documents, s for screen

> etc. Not a big deal, at least I can turn it on or off and set the echo

> to try this out.

> Regards,

> Sieghard

> From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill

> White

> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 9:08 AM

> To: main@jfw.groups.io

> Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer

> Hi, Sieghard. Your JAWS is not working as expected. When I do the command:

> INSERT plus SPACE BAR, then the letter E, my JAWS says:

> Mouse Echo Layer

> It expects one of the following commands:

> C for character,

> W for word,

> L for line,

> P for paragraph,

> O for on or off,

> Bill White

> Billwhite92701@...

> From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of

> Sieghard Weitzel

> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:15 AM

> To: main@jfw.groups.io

> Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer

> Hi David,

> I read about this feature also and have been meaning to try it. However,

> while I can find Mouse Echo in the Settings Centre when default settings

> are loaded, the layered keystroke Jaws Key+Spacebar followed by E does

> not say anything, e.g. it is not like Jaws Key+Spacebar followed by O

> which says “OCR” or Jaws Key+Spacebar followed by Shift+H which says

> “Speech History Cleared”.

> Shouldn’t it say “Mouse Echo On” or “Mouse Echo Off”?

> From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of David

> Moore

> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 11:09 PM

> To: main@jfw.groups.io

> Subject: Re: Mouse Echo Layer

> Hi Bill,

> The Mouse echo feature, when it is turned on with the key command you

> just said, enables one to use a mouse or the touch pad on your laptop

> and JAWS will say what you move the mouse pointer over. It works pretty

> well, and it allows you to move the mouse pointer around and here what

> you are moving it over so you can use the mouse and click just like a

> sighted person. NVDA has had this feature built into it for a long time.

> With JAWS, the mouse echo feature does not play any tones like NVDA does

> to let you know where the pointer is on the screen, but you can navigate

> the screen pretty well with this feature in JAWS. When you are done

> using the Mouse echo, just use the same key command Insert+Space bar and

> then e to turn it off. I have it set to say words as the mouse moves

> around the screen.

> Take care!

> David Moore

> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for

> Windows 10

> From: Bill White <mailto:billwhite92701@...>

> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 1:43 AM

> To: main@jfw.groups.io

> Subject: Mouse Echo Layer

> Can anyone direct me as to where to find more information on what the

> Mouse Echo Layer command does, INSERT plus SPACE BAR, then the letter E?

> I want to know what it enables, and how to use the feature it enables.

> Thank you.

> Bill White

> Billwhite92701@...

>

>

 

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of detection engine 15427 (20170516) __________

 

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

 

http://www.eset.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: techno-challenged needs advice

Randy Barnett <randy@...>
 

Press Jaws + J then go to help then to check for updates.


Re: firefox and Google chrome

Bill White <billwhite92701@...>
 

I'm running JAWS 18, Firefox 53.02 and Windows 10, and Firefox is running well. On the otherhand, Internet Explorer 11 crashes frequently.

Bill White
Billwhite92701@dslextreme.com

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 7:12 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: firefox and Google chrome

I am running Windows 10 64 bit and will soon be running JAWS. With my current screen reader, Window Eyes, I found that the 64 bit version of Firefox did not work well. Google Chrome 64 bit seems to work pretty well. Which versions of firefox and Google Chrome work best with JAWS?
As a newbee to JAWS I appreciate any help.


Admin: Threads closed, moderations applied.

James Homuth
 

Folks,


The password thread and its way too many spinoffs are officially closed to new posts. The thread has been going non-stop for well over 24 hours, and combined with its several branching topics has done nothing but perpetuate a rant fest I thought was dropped yesterday. Enough. Any further problems related to this thread, take them off-list, as I asked people to do twice yesterday.


Additionally, for various violations of which folks are well aware, and if they're not they are encouraged to review the list policies, a couple people have been temporarily added to the moderation club. This is a direct result of some of the posts in those various threads I've just closed. Now, let's please and thank you be moving on to some of the more constructive topics we've currently got going, and let's try not to derail those in a similar fashion.


James,

List Admin


Re: forwarding a thunderbird question for another Window Eyes user reading mail as non threaded

Randy Barnett <randy@...>
 

This is a bug in the new version of TB. you have to have the latest version of jaws to fix it. Or run an older version of TB and turn off updates.

On 5/16/2017 6:32 PM, Dennis L wrote:

Hello List,

 

 

I'm trying to transition to Jaws starting with emailing which I am getting a lot of experience on lately.

 

 

I find with Jaws I have to view messages as threaded which I don't

like.  Is there a way to read messages as unthreaded.  Jaws doesn't seem

to read the titles unless threaded.  Hoping there is a setting to be

changed.



locked Re: not everyone is an expert.

Randy Barnett <randy@...>
 

Oh, OK, seems a little over the top to mod you though.

On 5/16/2017 12:03 PM, Dennis L wrote:
No that was me that got moderated

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 2:45 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: not everyone is an expert.

Wow did you just really ban the OP for telling people how they made him feel? Am I going to be banned too? If so this is not the place for me...
On 5/16/2017 12:18 AM, James Homuth wrote:
I asked twice that if there continued to be problems they be taken off-list.
Your little side comments instead just got you moderated.

James,
List Admin

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Dennis L
Sent: May-16-17 3:10 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: not everyone is an expert.

Relax not all users are rude like one don't let one person give you a
bad taste.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
netbat66
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 2:54 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: not everyone is a expert.

not everyone is a jaws expert like you are.
you were all hand holders when you started useing jaws.
i just started useing the demo on and off 3 months ago. mostly off.
you will be getting thousands of new jaws users that use to use
window eyes like me since window eyes support is gone.
i only asked a simple password question and got the answer about 30
erigant messages ago.
i used vocal eyes then window eyes for 26 years. its going to be hard
for me to learn all the jaws functions from scratch.

-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Barnett
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 11:28 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: jaws 18 and password fields?


Your just not going to own this are you? Mods should behave better...
I am irritated today because this is the second time a person has been
belittled on this list. At least the other person owned it and
apologize.be














techno-challenged needs advice

David Pearson
 

Hello all:

Recently installed Jaws18 from disc on Windows7 desktop machine. Sure there have been updates which were not included on disc.

Could anyone please tell me how/where to go, and find any updates for Jaws18? The simpler the instructions the better.

Sincerely yours,



David S. Pearson


Putting Keys back the way they were

brian albriton
 

There use to be something called change back to factory defaults or something like that. We probably haven’t seen it since many moons and jaws ago.

Is there an equivalent to that now? I’ve got some keystroke conflicts and can’t figure out what I goofed up so I want to go back to the way things were before I started messing around.

All the best, Brian

 

 

Brian Albriton

iPhone 2136103315

cocanut50@...

 


firefox and Google chrome

Don H
 

I am running Windows 10 64 bit and will soon be running JAWS. With my current screen reader, Window Eyes, I found that the 64 bit version of Firefox did not work well. Google Chrome 64 bit seems to work pretty well. Which versions of firefox and Google Chrome work best with JAWS?
As a newbee to JAWS I appreciate any help.


forwarding a thunderbird question for another Window Eyes user reading mail as non threaded

Dennis L <dennisl1982@...>
 

Hello List,

 

 

I'm trying to transition to Jaws starting with emailing which I am getting a lot of experience on lately.

 

 

I find with Jaws I have to view messages as threaded which I don't

like.  Is there a way to read messages as unthreaded.  Jaws doesn't seem

to read the titles unless threaded.  Hoping there is a setting to be

changed.


locked FW: Abuse in the "digests"!

p tusing <ptusing@...>
 

Hello, all,

 

I  appreciate every bit of help that people on the   various JAWS lists have provided me and  others in the past.

Although I appreciate   VFO a lot, there have been a  few times  when issues were discussed on the lists that weren’t fully recognized as problematic issues by Freedom Scientific

In  other words, without the lists, it   would have been harder to get enough comments going to get the attention of the company that developed the excellent JAWS  software

I will refer to one issue later.

It is vital that we  help new JAWS users and ifI can help,  I would happily do so.

 

By the way, there are a lot of reasons why people have more problems using a screen reader and possibly typing besides having  other disabilities.

I joined the thread late and hope newcomers will be received warmly here.

 

Should we happen to  discover some clever new  feature for JAWS  that VFO could use, so much the better.

Six  years ago, some of us pressed VFo then Freedom  Scientific to do a better job of offering more distinct voices for those with slight hearing impairment or to  anticipate the aging of the

Large number of baby boomers who  wwill obviously  age and where many will find hearing distinctly more of an issue

I consider the previous example to be one very beneficial benefit of any list as sharing of  opinions for the positive can influence VFO; per the JAWS voices thing, the commentary did its successful   work.

 

In 1  public meeting,

A few professionals who  know absolutely everything  argued rudely that  to think  ahead of how we as eventual older people would best distinctly hear a screen reader was no  issue as they were    young  so  why bother about  older people and screen reader usability?

 

The  other example is the  perennial difficulty in reminding somethat many MAGIC users also use JAWS at the same time and vice versa.

 

Hence the need for a list not to  forget  that trying to  improve JAWS or getting answers when one is frustrated at  let’s say the launch of a     new version saves all of us time.

 

We need new ideas; that simply  makes the software better!

 

Many thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 3:54 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Abuse in the "digests"!

 

 

There’s no need to put up withthis kind of abuse.  If you want to join an email  list whose moderators treat all list members with patience and respect and don’t tolerate bashing or personal attacks of any kind, consider joining the JAWS Users list.  To subscribe, visit the following page:

 

 

Gerald

 

 

 

Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 3:29 PM

Subject: Re: Abuse in the "digests"!

 

I too have written the list owner and am dismayed at James's behavior. Especially as he is a moderator. There was one woman voicing her concern that if she asked for help she too would be seen as ignorant and would have to go through the same mistreatment... I really dont see how this is being tolerated.
On 5/16/2017 12:24 PM, HAMILTON wrote:

Moderator(s):

 

An e-mail explaining what was, and what was not, appropriate behaviour/language for sending to the JFW listserv was sent out not long ago.

 

It seems to me that “James Homuth” has crossed the line in many of his comments, including in Digest 886!  Most of my work life was involved with “human rights” issues, and it is important to remember that it is NOT INTENT that matters; rather, it is EFFECT.  If you agree, please do something about it.

 

It is possible that the person asking the original question may never write to this listserve after Mr. Homuth’s comments.  As well, others may be discouraged from reaching out for help with JAWS.

 

If you do NOT agree with my statement, please explain why his comments did not “cross the line”.

 

Thank you.

 

Jim Hamilton

 

********

 

 


Re: Questions concerning Thunderbird

James Bentley
 

Glad to get your opinion.  I have a couple people that I can ask.

I want to play with TB for a week or so to find out if it screws up like WLM often does.  If not, I'm changing email clients.

Thanks for everything.

James B


On 5/16/2017 9:17 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 06:59 pm, James Bentley wrote:
What I am hoping for is for the message headers to read the same way that they did in WLM.

 P.S.:  If you're not against asking for sighted help on principle it is faster, much faster, to do the rearranging of the order via mouse-driven drag and drop and the addition of columns via right-clicking on the headings row and selecting/deselecting the columns you'd like to have displayed.

The logistics of doing this with a screen reader is just far more time consuming, so if you have a willing assistant and speed is of the essence then I'd definitely go that route.
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Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.



Re: Questions concerning Thunderbird

Dennis L <dennisl1982@...>
 

I wonder if there are jaws scripts out there or if someone could write them.

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Bentley
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:31 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Questions concerning Thunderbird

 

Hello Brian,

 

The multiple entries in the system tray seems to have resolved itself for now.  I do not even know why.

 

I do not use NVDA. So, I wonder if there is a way to try the drag and drop with Jaws to get the date column to show up in the message header?

 

Thanks,

 

James B

 

 

 

Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:36 PM

Subject: Re: Questions concerning Thunderbird

 

James,
        1.  I can't see that (Sent Date or anything similar) in the list of things you can display in Thunderbird  If you want to have a look yourself then see:  http://accessibilitycentral.net/accessible%20email%20client%20mozilla%20thunderbird.html and look for the section entitled, "Using drag and drop with NVDA to rearrange column headers in Mozilla Thunderbird"  Even if you don't plan to rearrange anything it lets you get into what's available to rearrange and that's not necessarily visible by default

        2.  Do you have more than one e-mail account set up in Thunderbird?   I have not seen the 4-notifications with 4 different message counts but it strikes me as if it could be a mailbox by mailbox feature, as in version 52 there is a single system tray icon where you get the counts for individual mailboxes on hover-over.  I don't see anything obvious in Tools, Options that would make this happen but it's the only rational explanation unless something's not working right (which, of course, could be the case).
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Brian        Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

 

        Many are under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built.  Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.